Weapons From The Frontier You Don’t See Every Day | Planet Tyrus

Summary

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Planet Tyrus: “Weapons From the Frontier You Don’t See Every Day”

Podcast: Planet Tyrus
Host: Tyrus (Outkick)
Date: December 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into forgotten and legendary weapons of the American frontier, with Tyrus welcoming historian, collector, and prop master Jeff Hengebar as his guest. Together, they share gripping stories of Western exploration, survival, history’s most unique firearms, and the personalities who shaped the Wild West—including a detailed look at the rediscovery of the famed Hawken rifle and the remarkable African-American mountain man Jim Beckwourth. The conversation is filled with humor and candor, painting both the trials of frontier life and the thrill of historic discovery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest Introduction & Background

[00:06–01:41]

• Tyrus sets the tone by introducing Jeff Hengebar as a self-taught historian and collector whose vast collection is used as movie props.
• Jeff’s background: Raised in a house built by a surveyor of George Washington, steeped in American history from childhood.
• He shares his lifelong passion for Western explorations and collecting, leading to operating a “prop house” for film and TV.

2. Living as the Mountain Men Did

[03:41–13:41]

• Jeff recounts spending his 20s and 30s on a 3,000-mile horseback trek, recreating the experience of mountain men.
• Survival lessons: Scarcity of water, the unpredictability of nature, and the daily struggle to keep horses and men alive.
• Formation of a “philosophy of survival”:
  • “Disasters are an accumulation of small mistakes not attended to.” (Jeff, [06:24])
• Losing “the veneer of civilization” and learning gratitude for simple successes.
• “You can't get lost because you don't know where you're going.” (Jeff, [16:20])

3. Frontier Hardships & Self-Discovery

[13:41–16:57]

• The psychological and physical challenges of extended wilderness treks.
• Parallels drawn between combat service and surviving nature: “Nature’s hostile, but it’s not personal.” (Jeff, [14:18])
• The hero’s journey as a means of finding oneself.

4. Celebrating Simple Successes & Life Lessons

[16:20–17:25]

• Importance of appreciating small victories and practicing gratitude.
  • “You catch a rabbit, everyone’s in a wonderful mood that night at dinner.” (Tyrus, [16:25])
• “When you break it down, life's simple. We overcomplicate this. Move, move, move; it is.” (Tyrus, [16:57])

5. Rediscovering the Hawken Rifle: An Artifact Lost to History

[17:25–33:13]

• The Hawken rifle: Designed after Lewis & Clark, meant for big game and survival on the western frontier.
• The mystery of missing first-generation Hawken rifles (flintlocks from 1820–1850s), and their pivotal role in westward expansion.
• Jeff’s journey to authenticate a mystery rifle found at a Tulsa gun show as the long-lost Beckwourth Hawken.
  • “I proved without any question that I had a Hawken rifle. The Tulsa rifle was a Hawken rifle.” (Jeff, [24:17])
  • Discovery of Jim Beckwourth’s signature under the barrel, confirmed by scientific methods.
• The frustration and skepticism from the firearm collecting community over unstamped rifles.

6. Jim Beckwourth: The Legendary Black Mountain Man

[25:11–29:15]

• Beckwourth’s extraordinary life: born to a white father and mixed-race mother, became a famed mountain man, blacksmith, war chief of the Crow Indians, and Western scout.
• Debunking modern stereotypes about race in the Old West.
  • “His journey disproves so many of the stupid stereotypes that we have today of what it was like back then…” (Tyrus, [29:15])
• The value of perseverance and the principle that history belongs to those who endure and show up.

7. Frontier Weapons Showcase: Comparing Guns of the West

[35:15–44:50]

• “Show and tell” with Beckwourth’s Hawken, a Kentucky long rifle, and flintlock/pistol artifacts.
• Physical differences; Hawken’s capability for large game (e.g., buffalo) versus the lighter Kentucky rifle designed for smaller Eastern game.
• The immense weight and craftsmanship of the frontier’s weapons.
  • “My shoulder… I could punch it through a brick wall. But guess what? By the time you’re 30… you got arthritis, you pay the bills.” (Jeff, [38:33])

8. Extreme History & Untold Stories

[44:50–46:43]

• Jeff details ongoing historical research and little-known stories:
  • A Spanish-French battle on Nebraska’s Platte River—“instant replay preserved on buffalo hides.”
  • Accounts of mystical events and cross-continental journeys.
• Frustration with history being forgotten or erased, especially regarding Spanish/Mexican Americans in the Southwest.

9. Authentic Frontier Artifacts on Display

[55:13–56:00]

• Presentation of an authentic Rocky Mountain skunk hat and pelts, highlighting the real fur trade economy.
  • “This is an actual skunk hat… It’s three of them, actually.” (Jeff, [55:38])

10. Museum, Preservation, and the Need for Hands-On History

[50:25–50:52]; [51:19–52:47]

• Jeff’s personal passion for preserving this history in his private museum at Glorietta Pass, New Mexico.
• Challenges of making this history accessible to the public; Tyrus is offered a personal tour and encouraged to share it with the world.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Survival Philosophy:
  “Disasters are an accumulation of small mistakes not attended to.”
  —Jeff ([06:24])

• On Frontier Hardship:
  “Nature’s hostile, but it’s not personal. If you get run over by a landslide, it’s just… Wrong day.”
  —Jeff ([14:18])

• On Endurance & Society:
  “I think we forgot how to endure... If I don’t get it right now, if I don’t press download right now…”
  —Tyrus ([30:21])

• On Jim Beckwourth’s Significance:
  “His journey disproves so many of the stupid stereotypes that we have today…”
  —Tyrus ([29:15])

• On the Value of Showing Up:
  “The principles are the same. Showing up, enduring and gaining in consciousness, then you come out with appreciation. It makes life worth living.”
  —Jeff ([30:15])

• Frontier Realism:
  “You ain’t getting out of nothing. You can’t cheat the mountain. No. Or father time.”
  —Tyrus & Jeff ([38:52–38:58])

• Gift Exchange (Skunk Hat):
  “This is an actual skunk hat…It’s three of them, actually.”
  —Jeff ([55:38])

• Closing Banter:
  “You wear it magnificently well. If we push you over the mountain, we’ll get a buckskin jacket for you.”
  —Jeff ([59:09])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:41–13:41] – Firsthand account of the 3,000-mile horseback journey emulating the mountain men
• [17:25–33:13] – The lost Hawken rifle and rediscovering Beckwourth’s firearm
• [25:11–29:15] – The legend and legacy of Jim Beckwourth
• [35:15–44:50] – Hands-on gun show: Hawken, Kentucky rifle, flintlock, and physical challenges
• [50:25–50:52] – The Glorietta Pass museum and the dilemma of preservation
• [55:13–56:00] – Presentation of authentic frontier artifacts (skunk hat, pelts)
• [59:04–end] – Lighthearted closing, gifts, and shared passion for history

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Final Thoughts

This episode blends high-energy storytelling with rare historical insight, bringing to life the weapons, people, and spirit of the American West. Jeff Hengebar’s artifacts and first-hand knowledge reveal stories often overlooked, while Tyrus’ wit and curiosity ensure the conversation is as entertaining as it is educational. The rediscovery of Beckwourth’s Hawken rifle stands out as a testament to both perseverance and the importance of hands-on history—inspiring listeners to dig deeper behind the myths and see the real grit and ingenuity of the frontier.

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Transcript

[A]

I do my comedy tour, which you guys can check out on my ex and stuff. But I'm all over the. We're in there quite a bit. But you know what? Why are we talking about me? Oh, I don't know. First of all, you made history today. And. Which is ironic.

[B]

How's that?

[A]

You are the first man to walk into Fox News with two rifles and a pistol and everyone was excited. And you walk through the entire building with a security escort. That has never been done. Historic. And then there. And we're going to get into that, but before that. And I want to make sure it's henna bar.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I'm saying hen.

[B]

Just bar.

[A]

Henges bar.

[B]

Hinges bar.

[A]

Way to go, Harry. Way to go. Nice job.

[B]

I was in fourth grade before I.

[A]

Learned how we hired him for his looks.

[B]

So Hinges bar.

[A]

Henges bar. Got it.

[B]

Jeff.

[A]

Jeff. Henge bar. All right. Jeff it is.

[B]

Yes, thank you.

[A]

You know, but your story is short of amazing. I was a history teacher. I don't think we learn enough about the West. I don't think we learn enough about how this country was really built. The hard work, the sacrifice along. And. And you're. You're a self taught historian. Anthropologist. And you make your livelihood now. You sell antiques and you also rent your collection to movies and stuff.

[B]

I do have a little prop house. And we just. All my Spanish ox carts became ox carts from Egypt overnight. We just loaned a bunch of them to. To the movie Joseph recently that's done in Albuquerque.

[A]

So you've done that with a lot of different movies over your.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The. We have. Uh, we. If you ever saw America Primeval.

[A]

Saw it.

[B]

Yeah, we did all that.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

A lot of it. Not all of it, but a greater portion of it. He came to my. The things I rent out are simply residue of 60 years of hunting Mexico and being on the borderlands and picking up stuff and. And you know, it's just a Sargosa sea of. Of history so people can find things that they can't find anywhere else.

[A]

Now I'm a huge history buff and a good friend of mine, Rick from Pawn Stars, he's another monster dying.

[B]

The wolf. Historian type.

[A]

Yeah, he. His everything's about history. But were you always interested in collecting? Was it something that just was it. Was it. You know, because everyone kind of has their thing when they're a kid. Was it. Were you obsessed with the. With the wild west or just over time?

[B]

No, it's a good question. It kind of sneaks up on you. I was raised In a house that was built by a surveyor of George Washington back in Ohio. My window was about 12 inches high and 6ft long so you could swing a long rifle.

[A]

Got it. Okay.

[B]

My trees below were supposedly planted by Johnny Appleseed. What happened to me is, you know, my dad was a very busy man for a number of reasons. And I spent two day decades listening to westerns. They became surrogate storytellers of the hero's journeys.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I don't know any other way except throw beyond the, the familiar and fight your way out. Then you come up with a little bit more consciousness and you go again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the reluctant, that's the West. That means that's what the west represented to us. You knew you're going to get into it if you went into it.

[A]

Now this blows my mind. You spent your 20s and 30s traveling thousands of miles on horseback.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that, well, what happened?

[A]

3,000 mile journey?

[B]

Well, you know, remember, you know, I saw Jeremiah Johnson. I, the, the, the, the, like I said, the west has always promised adventure. And I come back from, from the war and, and, and I try to write a screenplay which I did and, and didn't go. And I, I, I looked around, I just couldn't. So I knew the west was one or done, but I wanted to see what was left of it. And so I, hell, I couldn't even spell horse when I went on these journeys. And, and I, I, I found, I, I invited two of my brother's friends, my younger brother that I'd seen grow up and I was, I'm really into a three man team. One can be intimidated, two can be, you know, three have to be. And so, and then there, if there's an offset opinion, if you and I get into it, someone will back you up.

[A]

So break it.

[B]

You get to four, you polarize, you be get to five. Too many arms and legs. Anyhow, I thought the only way to do it, to really see what was left of the west is use the dress and equipage of the mountain men. That would put me in that mode. And then I knew to degauss myself from civilization, I had to spend enough time and enough distance to somehow approximate it. And the mountain men used the horse or the mule. So it rained that month or two before I started. I left on the outskirts of Phoenix, Arizona and I went due west till I hit the Sierra Nevadas and then I turned right till I hit British Columbia about over a half year later. And we knew nothing about nothing. We started horses. First of all, when you hit do those type of things, you find out pretty quick you're not that important.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, and then, I mean, we had situations like in, in a Gene Autry movie, Roy Rogers movie. You. There's a guitar playing about sundown and the horses are lowing away. No, that's about sundown. They're heading back. And for the first month, we had to wake up about two in the morning, trace the horses back six miles.

[A]

Come back six miles because they want to go home.

[B]

Well, hell yeah. Everything wants to go home.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. There's things out there they're not of me.

[B]

I called it. I called it the Turn, Turn back day. So we started developing philosophies such as disasters are an accumulation of small mistakes not attended to.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You'll get hit by lightning or maybe a rock or two. But. But, or how about. Let's not have any more problems. Just changes of plans.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it takes the sting the hell out of it. And then we had the referral, refrigerator mentality where you, you know, you're hungry, you know, everything out that surrounds you also wants to stay alive and you're no more or less important. So you get that messy pretty freaking quick.

[A]

So you get, literally get to the grassroots of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you, when you think about it, because 3,000 miles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On horseback, which means you had to be able to build the camp, cook for yourself, bill for, deal with injuries, illnesses. Of course, you're a veterinarian. You're also concerned. You're out there and you gotta protect what you're doing and respect the environment. Respect Mother Nature because if you don't.

[B]

Then she'll let you never see where our camp was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There was nothing there. What happened to us more immediately is the first night, I had only taken five gallons of water, which are seven pounds a gallon, and I had it on my pack horse and it swayed back and forth, but I had four horses looking at me and three men started from there. Okay. Then, then I found out I. Now we're. We don't have any water. There's a west wind. Had been a rainy season. But, you know, we spent this particular day 7 hours catching drops in a canteen. We watered all the animals. We were reluctant to leave that, but we had to go west, so we continued west. We couldn't. I didn't know how to pack a horse. It's so. And it was stalling. So we buried everything, including our food for the most part. We had a little bacon. We had all this, of course, when we were searching for the Horses. In the middle of the night, coyotes would sneak into our camp and eat all this stuff is going on simultaneously.

[A]

You're finding where you fit in.

[B]

Oh hell yeah.

[A]

Well the rules are.

[B]

Yeah and, and there's some things become a little bit more pertinent like such as aggravated hunger where we're busting butt this way. So we're not letting up on our, our, our, our, our, our bodies but our. There is a diminishing reciprocity with the food we're eating.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then we. I find out only much after the fact that if you. If a mouth food, mouthful of. Of food or a whole dinner will suck up the same amount of moisture in your body. So by starving to death. But we were in such a state of. Hard pressedness, for want of a better word where we're trying to make headway. Everything is. Our horses are running off. I broke my rifle. We don't have any water. We continue west by a little north.

[A]

So you were living it as exactly as those did before you.

[B]

That's the Rocky Mountain college. Yes, but is that any different than anything else except our. The, the retribution is a little bit more definitive. Comes to.

[A]

Well, you don't have, you don't have the parachute.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can't pull the cord and be like we're gonna order pizza. Sorry, couldn't catch any fish today guys. Don't worry. Domino's will be here in 10 minutes.

[B]

Then I had a rebellion. The two guys didn't want to. Horses were a pain in the butt. So they decided they didn't want to do them. And I had to talk to them. I said, you know when you're. And you know this, you, you hold men close with an open hand.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Assuming you decided to go from A to B. If you are on the same perspective.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And, and to. To make that work. So I talked to them and told them, hey, if we let them go right now, they're going to end up on the streets of Phoenix. And if you'll be a little bit more patient, you know, so, so the first three or four weeks, I call it the turn back. The dog. We had a dog with us. His name was Jedediah Growler Smith. He was a pound dog. They're going to kill him.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And he talk about a world record. He peed on every bush from Arizona to Canada.

[A]

He was, he was buying property. Yeah, he was out there. Exactly.

[B]

But everybody was looking over the shoulders. What the hell you doing? I. No horses. Never not returned in any house. We, we broke through that barrier and, and we. There's the only way there. We all have a veneer of civilization, and we were beginning to lose that pretty rapidly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And our muscles were beginning to take over. It wasn't anything for us to walk 30 miles. I was, if. If we went a 40, 50 mile day, which I didn't know, we'd walk half of it. If we were to pull the hill, we'd be on the ground saving the horse. Saving the horse. Two of my horses that went into British Columbia stayed there and lived another 20 years. Oh, wow. Well, the. Here's the other thing too, that we, we had missed. We had no mentors. We were jumping.

[A]

You just jump. You just said, hey, guess what?

[B]

Well, I figured somebody did it, why not do it again?

[A]

Well, isn't that what happened? Somebody in a little city in England, but then hopped on a boat, made it through that, and then they showed up and like figured out beautiful.

[B]

But then really cool things happened. We finally hit the Colorado River.

[A]

Been on that. I took the trip on that when I was there.

[B]

We stayed with the Quechon Indians. I still remember his name. His name was Peter Escalante. And we were rehydrating. I caught a bunch of fish. The government made me put them back in. I tried to explain they were lonely and we're just sitting there. He said, well, they're a little bit less lonely in the water. But Peter ascolanti. We got one horse struck by a rattlesnake and he did old time Quichon Indian preservation. So when we left the Colorado river, we went into a moonscape, if you can think desert center. That area hadn't between Blythe and Indio, but we were way up in the escarpments. My God. We didn't see a drop of water for that 40 miles. And Sun's going down, the dust is blowing and the horses are looking, and I look way down the ridge and there's a little dust cloud going back and forth. I watched it for 20 minutes. Son of a gun. If it wasn't Peter Escalante in a pickup truck with two 55 gallon drums of water. Oh, wow.

[A]

Just on time.

[B]

And that kind of magic started and continued. You know, if you're willing to show up, these things will happen. But one of the challenges of the ride we took, the ecosystem changed. I don't think we didn't get out of Badlands. The only way I could travel was Badlands. We were so bad in one particular ride, two big explosions and we were on a bombing range. We didn't know. We got into. Oh, wow. And so. But we went through the Great Basin, the Panamans, eventually the. The deserts of Nevada. And we finally pulled out in northern Idaho and. And scary. I didn't know any of these things. We took no maps. We took no. We used nothing but the tool. We used a flint steel to start a fire, you know, and we starved off the land we dropped before the trip was over. Probably £40 per man. But you could. You could throw a rock against my head and wouldn't bounce.

[A]

No. What was that adjustment like? I mean, you're.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're coming from. Thank you for your service, by the way. And you're coming out of the military and you go on this. Basically you go on a quest. Right. Almost a vision quest. Trying to find yourself.

[B]

No, the hero's journey. That's what it was. I mean. Yeah.

[A]

And. But that's a. You go from. In some cases, not knowing if morning's coming or not. Every time there's somebody trying to shoot and kill you and the same thing. The pressure of yourself having to deal with that.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

And then you're. Now you're dealing with Mother Nature who can be just. I mean, she's a beautiful lady, but, boy, she can be vicious.

[B]

You know the way to say that nature's hostile, but it's not personal.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you get run over by landslide, it's just.

[A]

You were just. Wrong day.

[B]

Forgive me.

[A]

Wrong day.

[B]

Yeah. Nothing serious. It's not personal. But, but, but to answer your question, once again, I, I, you know, I saw Davy Crockett. Do you realize that they sold $1 billion worth of fur hats during the Davy Crockett period. Walt Disney did Davy Crockett. Then he did the Saga of Andy Burnett. Then he did about four. Disney was entirely different. But it was all about getting beyond the familiar. And the West. We've had a West since, like you said, they landed on the East Coast. So nobody in Europe, nobody in China, nobody on the Pacific Rim ever had the West. And I had no choice. But it promised a venture if I was willing. But I took the tools and trappings of the mountain men to put me in an equity position dealing with horses and mules over and over again. And they never ceased to amaze you. But like I said, eventually we pulled into British Columbia where you couldn't see anymore. There's no horizons. And grizzly tracks were filling up with water, you know, and just.

[A]

Yeah, that's a big bear. Yeah, that ain't Bigfoot.

[B]

But by the time we Got to British Columbia. That. That was. That. That was the. The. The. And we handled it. Scary. In fact, I wanted to go. So the boys, both of them got sick. They were just fatigued and. And hell, I would have gone clean to Alaska because I had a taste of it. The Jeremiah Johnson or the Jedi Smith or Jim Beckworth or. And so I did approximate that what it was. And the lessons I learned were mostly very, very simple. You don't have problems, changes of plans. You can't get lost because you don't know where you're going. How can you get mad at life?

[A]

Just live in the moment.

[B]

But if we could drag them back into New York, it'd make a lot of sense too.

[A]

And wasn't successes more celebrated? Like you catch a rabbit. Everyone's in a wonderful mood that night at dinner.

[B]

Well, let me tell you about a rabbit. So Duke, our dog, caught a rabbit and he brought it into camp, said thank you.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

After that he ate out. We. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hell yeah. All those simple things. Yep. Yeah.

[A]

Is that a stream? Yeah, Cartwheel. We bathe tonight, fellas.

[B]

You know, in. In. In a sense. And I don't know if I can put it that tight, but it's gratitude, man. You go, wow. A lot of things are happening, but a lot of things aren't. But I'm okay with that.

[A]

Listen, when you break it down, life's simple.

[B]

Move, move, move it it is.

[A]

And we over complicate this.

[B]

Well, Davey said, Davy Crockett said, if you know, you're right, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean I can't, you know, I can't imagine what, what you did when you were doing your wrestling and stuff. When you enter, all your options seem to leave. You got to deal with that. And it was no different. It. And. And that's a good thing if you get your butt kicked. Sad if you win. But it's all in the same. It's same. You've done it because you showed up, you know.

[A]

Well, speaking. You've made a tremendous discovery.

[B]

How's that?

[A]

A very important firearm that had been lost to American history. There was no. It was it 10 years no sign like it was just gone.

[B]

No.

[A]

It was called the Hawkin Hawking Rifle.

[B]

The hawk and rifle. When Lewis and Clark came back in 1806, they encouraged the fur trade that would happen sometime hence by saying there was a fortune of beaver up on the. The. The headwaters of the Missouri River. But they also said that their. Their firearms are absolutely inadequate for big game. So that's 1806. 1822. No, 1818. Two boys walk into town. James Lakeonen, an inventor with some bucks and a guy by the name of Jake Hawken who had a famous father in the colonial period. By 1822 they had invented the first firearm, the first big game rifle designed for the west. You could say designed for the survival of the West. And basically without getting into it too much, they had a very heavy barrel in which they could stuff a lot of powder and it was easy to load, very accurate. But they could down a buffalo at 200 yards with a crosswind. If you ever come out of a crosswind, we're talking keep this is the flags blowing straight out, right? Boom, down she goes. And if you got a buffalo, you had a half billion buffalo on the prairie, then you could stay alive. Okay, you could. So anyhow, they developed this rifle and that there's a limited audience for it. In, in, in, in that 1822, two of the largest events, two of the most important events that would change the west forever took place. The opening of the Santa Fe trail with, with Mexico and Santa Fe and the American fur trade. They were going after that bunch of beaver that, that Lewis and Clark was talking about. Anyhow, long story short, they, they had that gun available and ready to go for that period, but they had only X number of people. But over the next period of time from the period, excuse me, the time that they were in business from let's say 1820 to 1854, the first generation of rifles are missing. That first generation were flintlocks and we have one down here. But it was an ignition system. It was the technology of the day. And then they can that for percussion ignition. Enter a very interesting story. So Jim Beckwourth, mountain man, entered the Rocky Mountain fur trade in 1824 with Henry and Ashley. He had just come out of the Fever river country, had a pocket full of money. St. Louis knew him because he and his first job was a blacksmith by the name of Kasner. And they got in it and hammers and anvils were flying for pretty stout boy. But so we know for a fact that Jim had the mode of means and opportunity to buy a hawken. Okay, so we fast forward so history happens. Winchester. The Winchester rifle becomes the gun that won the West. The Colt developed a pistol that made you and I equal even your size. But it made us equal. But the Hawking, the first gun designed for the west was gone. It was forgotten. So then there was a. In the 1960s and this would follow the whole entire West Was rediscovered through their artifacts, their art in their literature. It was outstanding. And during that period of time, both mountain man, because of the literature and the rifle he carried, the Hawken became almost like the Excalibur that won the West. So I. I was really familiar with the hawk and rifle during that period. Anyhow, okay, fast story, fast story short or whatever. 40 years later, I'm tripping through a 6000 gun show in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I look off. Well, first of all, I couldn't never afford a Hawking. And I couldn't even afford a reproduction of Hawken during those days. But I look off and there's a Hawkins rifle sitting on a big old pack saddle. I mean, I almost got the big one. And first of all, Hawkins don't show up at gun shows. They're too expensive. And they go from dealer to dealer without ever. They don't need to come. So I almost got to it. It was 40 yards away. It was three rows of table, two rows over, and two guys were on the gun. I go, oh, man. And I could hear him talking. And they put the gun down. When I got up on it, my Hawkin had disappeared. It didn't have the commercial stamp that was on the barrel that all the percussion and for the most part, but it was almost five feet long. It was 13 pounds, all iron mounted.56 caliber. It was awes.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

So I bought it. So there's a long trip home to Glorietta and we have a museum there that has 27 Hawkins. And I took that Hawking in and I put it in a rack of another.

[A]

I think we have a picture of that. Yeah, yeah. The magic of technology. It'll post up while we're talking about it.

[B]

And it fit in there like peas in a pod. So my initial appraisal of the thing from that distance, there was peas in a pods. And the owner of the museum come up and. And I said, can you find the ringer? And he couldn't. And he got angry with me. Well, there'll be no Hawking without a stamp on the barrel. No stamp, no Hawking. And, and. Which was discouraging. And I was hoping for his approval type of thing. And so I spent the next three years. I'm a. I'm a. So all my degrees in science, not, not, not gunsmithing. And I spent three years with using what they called the scientific method. The short version. If it looks like a rock, feels like a rock, submits. Probably a rock.

[A]

Probably a rock.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's the idea.

[A]

Pretty Safe hypothesis.

[B]

Well, it's provable observation and then deductive reasoning, which we just did.

[A]

Yes, we did.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Teamwork makes a dream work.

[B]

Hey, the greatest compliment I give you. I'll take you to Canada next time.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Anyway, so I proved through traits which are distinguishing features with the use of samples, I had 27 Hawkins to work with. And I proved without any question that I had a hawk and rifle. The Tulsa rifle was a hawk and rifle. But there's one thing I left undone. So there was a. The, the barrel head was attached to the. Was attached to the rifle with a rawhide repair and, and I hadn't looked under the barrel, so I sent the damn thing off to a space lab in Largo, Florida, who determines fissures, cracks, openings. And they flipped it on us back and ran a radiology radiographic procedures, and they found J.P. beckworth.

[A]

Right, and that's a legendary black mountain man.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. He's, he, he's. Yeah, he's in the, not only the top 10, but he's exceptional in many ways.

[A]

Bad looking hombre.

[B]

He was it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[A]

We'll put the real picture up on the screen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just like to say he spares a striking resemblance to my former boss, Snoop. I mean his hair game is on point. His hair game's amazing.

[B]

But does Snoop owe you money?

[A]

No, no, no, he does not. Well, actually, you know what, he quite let me rethink that. Yeah, he might owe me a two or three here from days of service, but this hair game is unbelievable. Okay, so he definitely has some Indian in his family.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, his mother was, was a quatroon and his dad was a Kentucky.

[A]

Quadroon is one of my favorite words because it comes out in the word book. That's someone who I think is 25%.

[B]

Yeah, that's it.

[A]

20. A quadroon.

[B]

I'm knowing well Jim's parents. So Jennings Beckwith was Jim's father and Ms. Kill they called her. And Ms. Kill was a quadroon. And they left Kentucky from very wealthy old time Scottish family. And he picked a piece of wilderness. It was a, it was at the conjunction of the Missouri and the Mississippi, about 1200 acres. Young Jim call it, called it the howling wilderness. Anyhow, they had a long standing relationship based on affection and to flip that. So Jim was sent to St. Louis School for a couple of years and at 18 he worked with Kasner. That didn't work out and Jim takes the fault for that. He loved his women and the boss man said he was showing up late and all hell broke loose and Jim wouldn't take any.

[A]

But anyway, my former boss was not.

[B]

What makes Jim, among other things, so specular. So it's spectacular. He went into the. The. The. The Rocky Mountains with Ashley in 24 and was a mountain man. It's really hard to describe that. But Jeremiah Johnson's not a bad start.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

The beginning of that. He's a pilgrim and he's fishing in cold water because he can't get anything else. And he was flint and steel. Same thing we went through.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Rocky Mountain College. Anyway, so Beckwourth went through that and some help. There's fights and everything else going on. But then he became war chief of the Crow Indians for six years. Now if every day I bumped you to see if you're still as tough as you are or if you're asleep and I caught you and I wait. That went on for six years. Jim loved the Crow Indians. He had great friends. But it was a process of natural selection at its best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if. Or chief could get mad at you. But to be successful, you had to work win at what you did. So Jim was bad to the bone. And then his career just starts. He goes back to St. Louis. He gets in a fight with the Seminole Indians back east. He gets in the Mexican wars in my country. Big Taos Rebellion. And he goes on to California. And eventually he circles back at 66 and he's involved as a scout in the Sand Creek Massacre. And then he took up position against Shemington who was. Ran that fight against. Against the Cheyenne and. And eventually wanders up to the Crow Indians and dies. He let me count the ways.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, embolisms of arthritis or.

[A]

He lived a man's life.

[B]

In fact, I wrote my second screen when I got back from Saigon. I. I wrote a screenplay called Honorable Mention. And then I wrote a screenplay about James B. Beckworth that actually made it to William Morris and Billy Dee Williams. I actually got the call. Didn't. Never happened. But I did. And. And so I've loved this guy for a long damn time.

[A]

Yeah. He is. I got the book. I started reading a little bit and I just. It's funny because this is the type of thing that we all should know who this guy is.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Besides the fact.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It. His journey disproves so many of the stupid stereotypes that we have today of. Of what it was like back then and that everyone was racist and no one mixed and no one did that. Everyone was trying to survive, you'd be, you'd be surprised to see how people today, you use words and so anyone can say anything because there's no consequences. You know, I can get on the other side of a computer and talk about somebody. There's no consequences. You had to walk up to this man in his face and tell him there was going to be some consequences. But it was a different time. But these stories of perseverance and his lifestyle, the fact that he wasn't dead in any one of these chapters in his life is amazing.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of mountain men died. Yeah.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

We only hear about the ones. Well, that whole story about Hugh Glass, it was kind of funky. The covenant. Yeah, that was a funky thing. But there. But, but the principles are the same. Showing up, enduring and gaining in consciousness and then you come out with appreciation. It makes life worth living. I have a feeling that the society is just doing this.

[A]

I think we forgot how to endure.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I think that's what it is because you need it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

If I don't get it right now, if I don't press download right now.

[B]

Absolutely. A wonderful insight. So. So to finish the story with the hawk and rifle. So I got Beckwourth on this. Jim Beckwourth assigned the bottom of my rifle, one of the most premier mountain men's. And so but now I've proven that through the scientific method that it's hawking but no one cares. No stamp, no hawking. So then I told you that the Beckwourth rifle originally was flintlock. And then I find out through further research that the Hawken company was in business for 37 years. The first 10 years, first generation of Hawkins which are all flintlock are missing, gone. How name from. From, you know, how could, how could that. I figured it out one time how many guns and they all weighed 10 pounds. Almost 10,000 pounds of rifles just are.

[A]

Gone underground somewhere sitting in the bottom of a lake.

[B]

Okay. And I still have this guy saying. And I'm not getting any traction on the rifle even with Beckwour. You know, it's Beckwourth rifle, no question about it. But so now I got to make a case for an early Hawkin. Well then what happens is that there's a. Well actually a couple things happen. The, with, with the Hawken business, it goes under in the 50s and then it's totally sealed off to that to the time in the 1960s where it once again elevates. In the meantime, the Hawken business as it moves west goes from St. Louis, which is the epicenter to Westport. Now we're talking 1840s. Now they got competition for the first time. Now they had to put a manufacturing stamp which designates it from another manufacturer, you know, and usually a point of origin like St. Louis. Okay, so World War, Civil War, World War I, World War II, blah, blah, blah. In 1960s, the only guns available. It's easy to determine a gun with a name on it. So all the guns that were selected for had the stamp. Those were the ones. There's maybe 400 Hawkins surviving Hawkinson collections today. The. The. They're all percussion, which is the advance, and they're all stamped. So they totally selected against the on stamped rifles such as Beckworth's rifle. And that's kind of a fascinating story, but it's ongoing. For me, this is one of the most premier artifacts, and it's a man of brilliance and of historical importance documenting a rifle of a historic. So I'm still in the process.

[A]

And the rifle had a story to tell.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah, you can see where he carried it over his horse. Jim was so. Well, first of all, when he put the signature on the bottom, think about it. You got a flat, so you got that much space. So you take a piece of graphite and you write your name very carefully. And then Jim wasn't satisfied with that, so he put a minus deep in the middle and a plus. So if anyone scraped off his name. So what's fascinating is that what. When I found the signature, I hired one of the most prestigious handwriting signature analyst, Wendy Carlson's her name, and she looked at it. I mean, there's no way that this should have happened. She looked at it, she said, not only is it Jim Beckwourth's signature, but it was authored by Jim Beckworth. In other words, if I found your checkbook, you're cranky that day. I'd do that. But you authored your signature, and I can't do that. So there it was. And then when we. I pulled it out of the barrel very carefully, saved the rawhide and so forth. Took me four hours to get through the elk blood in the dirt and gunpowder grime to get down to the lettering, and there it was. And to quell any possible question about the authenticity of the signature, I carried that damn gun barrel up into Colorado with a metallurgist who looked at it at 50 to 100 power, and he found the landscape perfect for the inscription. But he said, you know what? You know what, Jim? Did he fill his signature full of Lead. I did it as a kid. He took a lead ball, went up and down the stick and it filled with lead. And so that's. First of all, he signed it. Then he did that. And what's cool about it, by doing that, he made that radiology thing pop. And he also prevented the letters from closing in with rust. So he saved his own.

[A]

And also, someone steals it, it was not going to go anywhere. Like, that's my rifle.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when you. Because I'm, I'm. I'm just, I'm getting a picture of this guy and I'm like, why would we not have this movie? Like, this is. Who would not want to know this guy?

[B]

Cyrus, I'll send you the script. You can have half of it.

[A]

Let's go, let's go, let's go.

[B]

I'm sure.

[A]

No, I'm serious. And you have some special guests with us today. We're not going to just sit here and talk about rifles. You brought some. And we have a guy for that. We have a guy for that. He's chomping at the bit. Whenever, whenever Harry can get on tv, he will do it. Can you, can you bring a couple of these forward, please? Good sir.

[B]

Well, Harry, thank you. Of course. Which one would you like to talk about? Let's, let's look at the Beckwour's rifle.

[A]

Yes, this is.

[B]

And I know this one below it. And Tyrus, as strong as he is, I want him to get a feel for it. If you don't mind, Tyrus.

[A]

Oh, not at all. Oh, that's got some weight to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yes, it does.

[B]

Yeah. And.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah. And it's almost 5ft long. A little under 13 pounds, 0.56 caliber. So. So. And it's hard maple. It's got attitude.

[A]

Make them like this.

[B]

No, no, no. And this, this would be a first generation. You see the rawhide thing that prevented me from taking the barrel off.

[A]

Oh. Yep.

[B]

In Beckwourth did sometimes smash that bugger over a bear or somebody. And there's no markings on the barrel yet. It's pure, certified blue chip hawken from one end to the other. But it's going to be the first generation. Now it's been converted to percussion. And if you notice, right, there's a, there's a, there's a marking right in behind the hammer. It's called a rabbit R I B B I T. And the rabbit allows that flintlock to go inboard. Yeah. And, and, and, and it allows it to go inboard. It's all Iron Mountain and just goes on the attributes of this piece.

[A]

You sit there, you gotta. You got to put the thing on there and man with a bear running at you.

[B]

A lot of people died. You got. It didn't work.

[A]

And if you had one shot, if you have one shot, you better hit.

[B]

Okay. No, no. Can he. Would you hand him the other rifle or take that. And this is up to the time that the Hawkins or Jake and Jake and James Lake can. Up to that time they built this big well. This well. Yeah. This is a Kentucky rifle. It's 50 caliber. But look at the size of the barrel.

[A]

Everything's smaller even though.

[B]

Yeah, but you didn't know what. You didn't have Grizz back there. You didn't have. You didn't have Grizz, you didn't have Sasquatch, you didn't have nothing back there. So that was an adequate gun. But Lewis and Clark found these guns failing. They couldn't stop an elk, moose, deer, you know, I mean even if you.

[A]

Were out of bullets, you swing that, you're going to stop somebody 100%. Yeah. Because if you're using that like, hey, by the time you're back into this right part right here.

[B]

If you carried that for two weeks, you'd be a brand new man.

[A]

Well, yeah. You're jacked your traps. His traps must have been phenomenal.

[B]

And remember, you're dealing, you're on horseback. You got a pack horse, you got your traps, you got your leathers. It, I mean it's, it's.

[A]

This has to be within arm reach at all times.

[B]

100%. My. My shoulder. I carried a 10 pound rifle to hawken my. My shoulder and my bicep and forearm. I. I could punch it through a brick wall. But guess what.

[A]

Yeah, but.

[B]

Yeah, but guess what. By the time you're 30 and they did too. You got arthritis, you pay the bills.

[A]

Yes, I talk about all.

[B]

You ain't getting out of nothing. You can't cheat the mountain.

[A]

No. Or father time.

[B]

No, no. Same thing.

[A]

Dry.

[B]

Same damn thing. Mountain doesn't care. Dime doesn't care.

[A]

Yeah, you could. And it's crazy because you could see like the. The wear and tear. Yeah, I didn't even that raw. Even the rawhide. I mean nothing that gun looks pretty much with except the fact that you know it's been used.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's been outdoors. I mean I don't think it's much different if you got a brand new outdoor today. It's shinier you know what I'm saying? But I mean, that. That should not look like that.

[B]

The breach on that is an inch and a quarter. That's three quarters of an inch. That thing can hold 200 grains of powder and not belch. And the rest of that thing had to be made out of hard rock. Mabel. To hold the barrel. You don't get away with it if you want. Okay.

[A]

I mean, because this is. And here's the thing. It's not like this is. Both of them are balanced. That's heavy. It's balanced. It's not like that.

[B]

Probably killed a thousand deer. But that's an eastern long rifle and that's what replaced it. But you pay the bills. I mean. Okay, there's another way of saying it. I want. Let him look at that flintlock first. Tyrus, if you don't mind.

[A]

Not at all.

[B]

This is the flintlock. It was the technology. When this rifle first came out, it used a stone to strike the frizzen, which you're looking at right there. And the spark goes into the pan, which goes into the side of the barrel. They replaced that with percussion in the 30s, but there was nothing but flintlock guns. And Jim Beckworth's gun is part of that.

[A]

You have a dual. Like somebody came up to you and slapped you with a glove. Back in the day, this was the preferred problem solver. Somebody had a glove.

[B]

Well, here's the deal. You didn't want to mess with Andy Jackson.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

He. When he died, he had a lead ball that his. Had to tie his thigh on his festering. And two ball or one ball for sure. From. From D. Now, you don't want that. That's not. That's not a way to go. No, no.

[A]

I was glad that we. We just. You know, when I was growing up, we just got a fist fight.

[B]

Darius, can I ask you, were you a hunt. Are you. Were you a hunter?

[A]

I hunted. I was a fisherman.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love. I grew up in California. We used to. Every summer I'd go up to Johnny McNally's and the current river and I go fly fishing all summer, and I'd stand in the river all summer and. And fish. And we started to. I ca. Everything I caught, I wanted to keep because I didn't. We didn't have. We had a refrigerator at home, so there was never. And I was a. I had a. I was always a collector of animals. I had to have every turtle. And like, whatever I catch, I bring it home. It was never a time. As a matter of Fact, the one time I graduated in California has too many graduations, by the way, when you graduate with the sixth grade, it's ridiculous. Like, there's no reason for a sixth grade graduation at all. There's absolutely no reason for a sixth grade graduation. But we had a sixth grade graduation and my mom took me to Chinatown and we go into one of the spots and they had soft shell turtles.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which are one of my favorites from science class. And they were in the little thing and swimming around and I was like, mom, can I get one? And they had this big old one in there. And she was like, yeah. And the, the lady takes it out and she's like, chop or boil? I was like, no. Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Raw, right? Sixth grader. I'll have him raw as is. Do you want it back? No. And I'll. Mom, can I take. Because they sold about a pound. It was way cheaper than the pet shop.

[B]

God, that's true.

[A]

I ended up saving three soft shell turtles that day. But I never. I didn't start getting into like hunting until I got into, I think like 18, me and my buddies. The problem was California. There wasn't a whole lot to shoot at.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We went quail hunting all day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was occasional deer, but not a whole lot. When I went to school in Nebraska, on the other hand, okay. It was 24, seven hunting.

[B]

Well, the reason I kind of brought it up is the American hunter, most of the deer have been taken by a.270 or a 30 odd six. If you have a silver tip coming at you down the hill, it might work, and it might work on a big moose, but it could take any North American game. If you took that rifle to Africa, the first Cape buffalo would turn it into a bracelet. So the analogy is the Beckwourth rifle. Compared to that earlier rifle, that's. This is a big game rifle.

[A]

You can feel it.

[B]

Okay. And. And so that's the. But this is early on and this is the first gun that was designed for the West. It'll let you survive for the West.

[A]

Now what do you. What I'm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You fired these guns before?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's the kickback like?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Nothing?

[B]

No, no. Well, I mean, a 200, you're going to feel it, but you got. It's so toe heavy, so on the nose that you.

[A]

No, I just can't get how equal, how smoothly balanced. There's not. It was just. I mean, for something to be that big, you would think it'd Be a little bit this, a little bit that. And we don't seem to recreate. I mean technology. You always say technology, but always seems the stuff that survive for that long.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We don't have. We don't make things that last that long.

[B]

No, but I. And, but, but the analogy is this, this is. You know, I don't know what you did to toughen yourself up for wrestling, but this was a pleasure. There's one mountain man and his name was NTN Provost that handled roughly about 12 Hawken rifles by himself. Either bottom for his men or bought them for rendezvous. The Hawken was a big hit. But you pay the bills. You know, if you're an F1 driver, you. You pay the bills. We you for extreme. Extreme history, you pay the bills. Nothing personal.

[A]

Nope, not at all.

[B]

Yeah but the. One of the advantages of extreme history and that's what it is and that's what I kind of deal in. I live in the span in the Southwest and you talk about inequity. You know I was raised with Zorro, the Cisco Kid. Oh yeah. And we shot a couple of Mexicans at the Alamo to represent the Spanish Mexican history in North America. And the borderlands basically is where the Spain. Spain crapped out be Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, they just burned out. And then you know, the Mexican period was enveloped that. So I hunt. I hunt. I've got 400 years of hunting just like the Beckwourth extreme history. And, and, and I'm on a. It's sometime I'd like to talk to you about. There was a battle.

[A]

Oh, you're definitely coming back. Oh, we got a lot to talk about.

[B]

Okay. But. But there was a battle that took place between the Spanish and the French 12 years before George Washington was born on the Platte river in Nebraska.

[A]

Been there.

[B]

We have an instant replay. It was a loop fork of the plat. We have an instant replay of that fight. Some guys wandering around in a castle in Switzerland and rolled out these buffalo hides 18ft long by 4ft and there was a fight. And it changed the west forever. That's a story. Another story that I'm working on Right now is 1630 diary written. You know Hank, Santo Domingo, the Franciscans were stationed at one of the pueblos during the early days of New Mexico. Anyhow, long story short, he records some. Somebody, some nun that was bilocating from Spain into the Humano Indians which were in northern Texas and preaching the word. And I found out later on, yeah, she did so over a thousand times. It's the most documented. Yeah. Documented historical stuff we know.

[A]

This is stuff we should know.

[B]

It is our stuff.

[A]

And it's our history, who we are. And I feel.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm sorry. Frustrated with the actual Spanish Mexican people. They're disturbed between Cortez winning and Montezuma losing. And it seems to be a split house. But they are 400 years the toughest history that any Jamestown pilgrim. Knock down, drag out. It's all there. And it does texture. It adds to our experience. It is kind of fun to see them hurting instead of us. That's what history is.

[A]

You know, I'm looking at this. Was this. They tied it on here.

[B]

You damn right they did. That guy carried it over, slung it.

[A]

Slung it.

[B]

Yeah. Good call, man. That's great. Yeah. You got the sign. You reading sign? I like it.

[A]

Oh, yeah. This thing is. This thing is phenomenal. And again there, I cannot tell you guys. There's like no wasted weight. Like, it's just.

[B]

No. And it's a 69 caliber ball, which, if it hits, you would pull in your T shirt, your underwear and. And put it all. Put it all in.

[A]

I definitely wouldn't be able to walk through the TSA if I walked through. Sorry. You gotta. I gotta. I had a podcast. It got weird. We're all good. It's fine. It's gonna be fun.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

Oh, man. This is unbelievably awesome.

[B]

Well, it's all our history. And that's. That's it.

[A]

And James P. Beckworth. I'm gonna. I'm gonna finish that book.

[B]

And please do this.

[A]

This. My. That's my Christmas present to myself.

[B]

And if. If he hasn't, would you download Jeremiah Johnson movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And. Oh, there's a.

[A]

Wait a minute. Who is that with Dustin Hoffman?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

He was Robert Little Bighorn. Never mind.

[B]

Never mind.

[A]

Robert Redford. Yeah, I've seen.

[B]

Can I. Do I have time to relay it just a little?

[A]

Yeah, no, please. Absolutely.

[B]

Okay. So. So Johnson. Thank you, Harry. Yeah. Johnson went into the Rocky Mountains with a.45 caliber Hawking. But he wanted a 50. He was okay with that. And in the course of the movie, as he progresses in his understanding and learning and survival, he. He runs across Hatchet Jack. Hatchet Jack froze to death. And the man sitting on the side of the hill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The rifle across his legs.

[A]

I've watched every Western man.

[B]

He wrote the note. I, Hatchet Jack, being a sound mind and broke leg, do hereby leaveth my bar rifle to whatever finds it now he's a little prejudiced here. Lord Hope would be a white man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was a good rifle and killed the bar, which killed me anyway. I'm dead. Yours truly, Hatchet Jack. But then he pulls it out and he's got his 50. But that's a memorable. But that, that's what whipped that 1960s into a foam. In fact, I saw the movie two weeks before I took off for Canada.

[A]

So that's what got you all half cocked.

[B]

Well, I took notes.

[A]

Yeah. As you said.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, we're. We're running short on time. But you, you have to promise to come back.

[B]

Oh, I'd love to because you know, be my pleasure.

[A]

And at some point we need to go to you so we can see.

[B]

The museum and I, I have a place to put you. Yeah. And I have, as I wrote, a cannon on the roof. If you got a posse chasing you.

[A]

As possible or you know what these guys. Harry, Harry, Will. We can shoot a Harry.

[B]

Yeah. But we have this museum that is beyond comprehension of, you know, 27 Hawkins 200 Indian trade guns there. And there's a lot of 1 ups. We have Spanish colonial section arms and armor. You, you would have so much fodder. It would be so worth your while. I could, we could do. You could.

[A]

Now to the average everyday American who wants to take to come see this. Where can they come see you guys?

[B]

They don't. We can't. The guy's real old that owns it. It's marginal going on. We've been taking care of the place for a while. It. We have 80,000, 80 million people going by our exit Glorietta there. But we. If I go over to that museum, it's an hour out of my life and Jim's too old to do it. So I'm the main docent right now. So it's, it's just quivering there so.

[A]

That America's going to have to rely on me to go take a look and report.

[B]

You would not. I guarantee you I did. And I'll send you my podcast. I never did them, but we started with a drone right in the door and then we went up to 4,000ft. Look, the Rockies. We're in Glorietta Pass. Historic pass. It just goes on and on and on. And then you got the Pecos Monument. Then we, you know, it just. But you're, you're good. I'll send you my podcast.

[A]

What I love is your passion. Oh God, you are fire. You're right. I'm telling you I ain't got time to do 3,000 miles with you. But I feel like. I feel like my wife. If you gave the speech. I think she at least let me go for the weekend. Yeah, but I think she could go. You can go. You can go out in the wilderness. Because I'm always. I camped my whole childhood. I was in Boy Scouts. And, like, my kids can make fires, and I'll be asking them, not burning houses down. I'm just saying that survival. If you had to be in the woods for a few nights, can you make a fire? Do you not. Can you boil water? Can you build a shelter? Do you know what this barrier is? You know what the plan is? And if you do that to the average American, they will be like, well, where's the WI fi? And we need to get back and see. But that passion right there is what will take will change minds.

[B]

Well, may I only say that it takes one to know one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, my favorite times when you're on is. Is when you get tired of shit and I see you kick off. You know, I'm expecting that grenade off the pin to flop across the floor. That's the Tyrus I love.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, it's not that you're not witty. It's not that you don't have a grip. It's just when you say, I had enough of this shit.

[A]

Yeah. We just gotta break it down. Let's get to it.

[B]

But. But take me serious about the museum. No, I'm gonna send you the my 9.

[A]

If I can travel and not have to be in this building, this place is. It's a building. I hate cities. I won't live in them. Yeah, I gotta have trees. I gotta have a bird say good morning to me or whatever he's threatening me with.

[B]

You know, Is it like a zippity doo doc?

[A]

Oh, no, no, no. I got that. I've. I know that bird cries are war cries. See, the average person doesn't know that when they see a bird singing. Oh, sweet. No, no. He's saying, any of you other dudes come in here, I'm going to murder you.

[B]

Oh, God, that's funny. But we're real frisky out there, and you know, you got my. You targeted me. And I will. I'll. I'll knock you over the. I'll knock you over the fence, man. But I'm going to send you my podcast. Our podcast. I tried. Would never work because I was trying to get money for the we minutes.

[A]

We got the same problem here. Honestly.

[B]

But. But I did. I did one on Coronado period. Blah, blah, blah. We've got. You're. You're going to. Not. They're in their. Their extreme history. They're not. This is not. No, they're. They're. They're gnarly history. And I've got at least 10 of them in that room.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

We. We got. We have some guy was a skin collector and there. The whole letter is there. Just like we would collect Coke bottles or something.

[A]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, did you say skin? Yeah, like human skin?

[B]

Yeah. And what he was missing, he had a mongol. He had Chinese, he had an Italian, but he didn't have Mexican. So this piece of.

[A]

Or a quadroon.

[B]

Yeah. This piece of hide had been taken off the Battle of buena Vista in 1846. And the letter is. Thank you. Was well tanned. I mean, I got some interesting stuff there.

[A]

It's not all that much. Stories of guys would keep ears as trophies and they've lose their mind and war. So I guess there's a. You know, it makes sense.

[B]

Well, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Here's the thing. If I have a human skin hanging from my fort, that's weird. The average person's gonna be like, you know what? We're not making war with that dude. He wants it way more than we do. I just want your land. This dude wants to eat us.

[B]

But.

[A]

So I think that's. I think that's a fair deterrent.

[B]

But what I will do. I have no way to tell you how excited I am about you and. And. And the adventure definitely continues. And I also can pull a trigger if you ever really get in trouble.

[A]

Nice. With that bad boy. 200 yards. I'm good. And then, of course, you know what? I have to. This has been so awesome. And you already agreed to come back and I'm gonna go see the museum.

[B]

Yeah, good.

[A]

But you did. There's a third thing here, and I feel like I should show it to him. You went to. You have an authentic. Oh, I mean, this guy was. He wasn't the eggs on the plate. He was the bacon. He went all in.

[B]

We reduced the populations of our. Yeah, this is an absolutely certified Rocky Mountain here.

[A]

There we go. And then the camera guy's having a fit right now. And hey, your brother's telling you, get back. So this bag of. Yeah, this is an actual skunk hat.

[B]

Like, look, look. Yeah, it's three of them, actually.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah, there's three.

[A]

Well, you did knock the competition down a little bit. This Is amazing. And you know what they have really? I mean, you understand why the furry trait. And this is just the skunk. The beaver is unbelievable.

[B]

The pelts are fox.

[A]

Again, I prefer them on them, but it is beautiful when you fear it.

[B]

But the skunk was a favorite food for the French.

[A]

Makes a lot of sense.

[B]

And they said there was an adult skunk. And if you can grab their tail and hold them up without them kicking off, they won't spray on you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not. I'm. I'm not that hungry, so.

[B]

Okay. There's one other thing. Yes? Oh, yeah. Give it to here.

[A]

Ground.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. Coffee?

[B]

Yeah, pinon coffee.

[A]

Oh, pinon.

[B]

It's out of Pecos. And this was. This is. There's. It's very special. It was ground through the breast of virgins. Aha. You know, and. And. And there's another thing that goes along with it. Tyrus. The pinon is a pine tree in Spanish. Right.

[A]

Oh. So this is going to smell really good.

[B]

Oh, hell yeah. It's going to taste really good if you're a coffee guy. But in New Mexico, the. The pine nut or the pinon? Are you with me?

[A]

Yeah, I'm with you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm just trying. All right, so trying to have the full experience here. See if my head's too big. Oh, wow. This is what happens.

[B]

Yeah. There's an adjustment on. You look wonderful.

[A]

I feel wonderful.

[B]

God, you're beautiful, man. I'm not going to marry you, but.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Okay, so. So in New Mexico, a pinon is a pine nut. So what do you have when you have a pinion nut in one hand and two pinion nuts in the.

[A]

A happy tree.

[B]

No, A difference of opinion. Oh. We use it to settle arguments.

[A]

Oh, nice. Opposed to another way to settle arguments. I will go. I will go with that.

[B]

If you enjoy that coffee and run out, give me a holler.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna keep it right here.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Right there.

[B]

There is a small adjustment. If that doesn't fit.

[A]

Oh, no, it fits like a glove.

[B]

Okay. I am so tickled.

[A]

You know, I have to do the Gutfeld show tonight, and I don't have a hat at the moment.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I'm gonna do it. Oh, I gotta do. I gotta do the New Year's Eve show tonight. If it's okay with you, I would like.

[B]

It's yours.

[A]

Oh, it's mine?

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

The other guests give gifts like this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hell, no. No one's gonna be able to Talk. This will. I need a hanger. This will permanently hang in here.

[B]

Tyrus. Look. Look how handsome you are.

[A]

Yeah, I think. I think Curly from the Three Stooges is not rolling over in his grave right now.

[B]

Now, I had a plan. It didn't work. Remember that rubber chicken that fell out?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I was. If I wear it, and we were pretty rushed. I was going to say you go, oh, you. You're supposed to flinch. But you didn't.

[A]

No, no. I have a lot of critters. I'm Animal Guy. I got a lot. I got so many. And I got six kids.

[B]

You didn't even wonder why I was in there. What the hell, Because I have six.

[A]

Kids, I find things in their shoes that makes no sense to man.

[B]

Take that. If. If you follow, take that to Mr. Gutfield tonight, too.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Say. Say, you've had a hell of a evening.

[A]

Hey, I'm going to act like I have a regular hat on. I'm not saying a word.

[B]

Oh, God, this is going to be beautiful.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

God, aren't you nervous? Don't you get nervous about this stuff? Going to gut feel and all that? Kind of. No.

[A]

You just sitting, talking to a man.

[B]

In front of a little camera, just.

[A]

Saying there's more things in the world to be afraid of. I'd be more afraid of this guy if I didn't grab his tail. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or again, somebody.

[B]

Well, you. You wear it magnificently well. Thank you. And if we get you over, push you over the mountain, we'll get a buckskin jacket for you.

[A]

Oh, I'm all about it.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

This has been a true pleasure, sir.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

Thank you, Sam.