S1E10Bonus:“Carol” and Carol: A Conversation

Summary

Pluribus: The Official Podcast – S1E10BONUS: “Carol” and Carol: A Conversation (May 12, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this special bonus episode, host Chris McCaleb takes a back seat as comedy icon Carol Burnett joins Rhea Seehorn (Ray) and Jennifer (presumed to be Jennifer Bryan, costumer for "Better Call Saul"), for a free-form, laughter-filled storytelling session. The group reminisces about their shared love for performance, recalls backstage mishaps, starstruck run-ins, and heartfelt lessons from their careers. This unscripted roundtable celebrates not just the making of “Pluribus” and the history with Vince Gilligan, but the power of camaraderie, humility, and humor across generations of show business.

The conversation is as much about behind-the-scenes hilarity as it is about resilience, human foibles, and the deep connections built while working in entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legendary Encounters and Starstruck Moments

• Carol's First Meeting with Jimmy Stewart [01:31-05:56]

  • Carol describes idolizing Jimmy Stewart as a child and finally meeting him during a studio visit arranged by director Mervyn Leroy. Overcome with nerves, she blurts out her grandmother’s saying, “It’s time to tie on the old feed bag,” embarrasses herself further by stepping into a bucket of whitewash, and flees. Years later, she befriends Stewart and shares a touching story about him surprising her on the final episode of her TV show.

    "I was just... His lips are moving, but I can’t hear anything. It’s my heart. It’s going doom, doom, doom, doom."
    — Carol [04:34]

• Celebrity Recognition (or Lack Thereof): The Whitney Deli Story [18:05-20:29]

  • Rhea describes being the only unrecognized cast member on her sitcom “Whitney.” A deli cashier finally seems to recognize her, only to recall her as “the girl who eats frozen yogurt alone”—not an actress.

    “She was like, ‘Yeah, every Friday you come in and eat a huge, large frozen yogurt by yourself in the corner.’”
    — Ray [19:50]

• Carol’s Elevator Encounter & Unique Face [20:31-21:22]

  • Carol’s anecdotes about people misidentifying her or complimenting only her face highlight the quirks of celebrity.

    “You know how I recognize you? ... By your face.”
    — Carol [21:03]

2. Theatrics, Quick Changes, and On-Stage Disasters

• Ray’s Multicam Sitcom Quick Change Misadventure [06:52-12:41]

  • Rhea, transitioning from theater to TV, over-prepares for live “quick changes” on a sitcom by requesting Velcroed costumes and stashing clothes around set—only to find that the show does cut between scenes.

    “You can see this pilot somewhere. It’s called I’m With Her. At the end of one of the scenes, I do my last line with my head out the door because I am taking my clothes off.”
    — Ray [10:35]

• Carol’s Competition with Crew for Fast Changes [13:24-13:46]

  • Carol boasts about “skin out” changes (wigs and clothes) faster than the crew could move furniture thanks to Bob Mackie’s costumes: “I would step into something and they’d zip it up or Velcro it and I’m ready.”

• Onstage Set Disaster & Improv [14:10-14:58]

  • Rhea recalls a play at Woolly Mammoth Theatre where the set wall fell. Her co-star ad-libbed: “They don’t make houses the way they used to.”

3. Family, Parenting, and Childhood Stories

• The Perfect Comeback: Erin Gets Dessert [15:05-16:57]

  • Carol’s daughter Erin tries to skip dinner for dessert, is denied, but wins Carol over with wit: “And I also love your wife,” earning her dessert and her sisters’ envy.

• Carol’s Parenting Lesson Undermined [49:36-51:14]

  • Delivering a heartfelt lecture on honesty to her daughter Carrie, Carol is undercut when Carrie, unfazed, asks, “How many teeth do you have?”

    “I am so proud of myself… Finally, I said, alright, sweetheart, is there anything you want to say to Mommy?... She said, how many teeth do you have?”
    — Carol [50:23]

4. Showbiz Embarrassments & Lessons Learned

• The Front Page In-Flight Screening [21:26-23:59]

  • Carol is mortified as an airline proudly announces her film “The Front Page” mid-flight. After watching passengers ignore her, she grabs the PA: “I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to each and every one of you for my performance in that film.”
    — Carol [23:27]

• Mortifying Audition Moments

  • With Rob Morrow [43:39-47:18]
    • Rhea recalls blurting out “We slept together” at a chemistry read, mortifying Rob Morrow and ensuring she didn’t get the part.
    • “This is what I said. I go, yeah, we slept together.” — Ray [46:21]
  • With Glenn Close [51:29-56:21]
    • Starstruck at an awards show, Rhea pokes her head between Glenn Close and friends, then hugs her around the waist while she’s conversing, horrifying all. Partner Graham pulls her away.
    • “Let me clear her arms and not interrupt their talking by coming in low from the side and hugging her around the waist.” — Ray [55:25]
    • “It’s my apology tour.” — Ray [56:43]
  • Lessons: Both stars reflect on nerves, mistakes, and the importance of moving on. Carol’s mantra after audition disappointments: “It’s her turn.”

5. Show Business Miscellanea: Industrials, Commercials, and Customer Service

• Training Videos and Commercials [37:21-40:50]

  • Rhea and Carol reminisce about acting in “industrials”—in-house training videos, including ones about alcohol moderation (with a friend in a Jim Beam bottle costume) and foil jingles: "Foil is sweeping the country."
  • Carol’s check-writing story at Bergdorf Goodman requires her to do the famous Tarzan yell, which triggers security.

• Costume & Beauty Mishaps

  • Rhea’s “Santa Beard” TV shoot story [62:54-64:43]: after gentle notes about backlit mustache hair, she's told she needs "to wax your face" for a reshoot.

6. Heartfelt Exchanges & Industry Camaraderie

• Unexpected Kindness: Jennifer Love Hewitt’s Gesture [24:00-28:18]

  • Rhea recounts social anxiety at a Hollywood party. Jennifer Love Hewitt offers to drive her home; they fail to find each other after the party, but Hewitt later sends flowers and a note promising, “I owe you a ride home for the rest of your life.”

    “In my dressing room was a dozen white roses and a card that said, I went to every single door looking for you over and over and couldn’t find you. I owe you a ride home for the rest of your life.”
    — Ray [27:44]

• Mentorship, Support & Kindness

  • Carol and Rhea discuss the importance of mentorship in the industry, recognizing when “it’s someone else’s turn,” and sharing small but meaningful acts of support, like Britt Lauer sending congratulatory flowers.

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Notable Quotes

"My friend, my friend." — Jennifer, as young Carol meeting Jimmy Stewart [04:01]

"We don't know in what order... So we just turn it over and say, okay, I’ve got a story about..."
— Carol [00:59-01:04]

"This is how I tidy the whole situation up. I go, ha ha. Just kidding. Let’s do the scene."
— Ray, on her disastrous Rob Morrow audition [46:49]

"Just come out looking determined."
— Director John Houston to Carol after chin surgery continuity issues during reshoots for Annie [62:32]

“It’s her turn.”
— Carol, self-soothing after losing a role [47:59]

"I could hear violins in the background... What do you want to say to mommy? She said, 'How many teeth do you have?'"
— Carol [50:23]

"I owe you a ride home for the rest of your life."
— Jennifer Love Hewitt, in a note to Ray [27:49]

“It takes you 10 weeks to make a piece of crap. Takes me five days.”
— Carol (to Walter Matthau) [58:57]

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Timestamps for Memorable Segments

• Meeting Jimmy Stewart (Carol): [01:31–06:46]
• Velcro disaster & sitcom quick change (Ray): [06:58–12:41]
• Whitney deli/frozen yogurt story (Ray): [18:05–20:29]
• Front Page apology on a plane (Carol): [21:26–23:59]
• Jennifer Love Hewitt’s kindness (Ray): [24:00–28:18]
• Rob Morrow chemistry read blunder (Ray): [43:39–47:18]
• “It’s her turn”: Carol on dealing with rejection: [47:32–48:13]
• Glenn Close hugging incident (Ray): [51:31–56:21]
• Annie reshoots and chin continuity (Carol): [59:36–62:54]
• Santa beard and beauty notes (Ray): [62:54–64:43]

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Memorable Moments

• Carol doing the Tarzan yell in Bergdorf Goodman, setting off store security [42:43–43:10]
• The competitive but supportive energy backstage—betting on who could change costumes fastest [13:24–13:46]
• Ray’s “apology tour” for awkward celebrity encounters and Carol’s pride in owning up to cringe-worthy moments [56:43]
• Sweet parental memories, each upstaged by a child’s nonchalance [15:05–16:57, 49:36–51:14]
• Camaraderie and catharsis in sharing failures, with each story dissolving into laughter

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Final Thoughts

This unfiltered storytelling session reveals legends and rising stars alike as deeply human: awkward, earnest, quick-witted, and enduringly self-deprecating. For fans of Pluribus, "Better Call Saul," and classic TV alike, it’s a gem of oral history, sharing behind-the-scenes insight, industry wisdom, and the power of connection. As Carol, Ray, and Jennifer pass stories back and forth, what shines most is their ability to laugh at themselves—and invite listeners to do the same.

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Quick Reference: Who's Speaking?

• Ray: Rhea Seehorn (“Kim Wexler” in “Better Call Saul” and “Pluribus”)
• Carol: Carol Burnett (comedy legend, guest on “Pluribus”)
• Jennifer: Presumed to be Jennifer Bryan (costume designer), sometimes acts as interlocutor/support
• Chris McCaleb: Host, mentioned in context not as a participant in this episode

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For New Listeners

If you cherish stories about the not-so-glamorous side of Hollywood, lessons in humility, or the gift of found family among colleagues, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a heartfelt, hilarious window into the real community behind the screen.

Transcript

[Ray]

Hey, I'm Ray.

[Carol]

And Carol.

[Ray]

And Vince Gilligan has brought us together today. Well, first we were brought together on Better Call Saul.

[Carol]

That's right. Although we didn't work together.

[Ray]

No. You didn't force them to not put me in scenes with you, did you?

[Carol]

Yeah, I did. I was afraid you'd steal every scene.

[Ray]

I doubt that, but, yeah. But I got. I had the great luxury of becoming friends with you, though, and going on a lot of dinners. All of which rate in my top favorite dinners I've ever had. And here we are in this beautiful room in Montecito. Because Vince apparently believes that you and I have some of the best stories at these dinners. And wanted to find a way for us to put them on tape. But I know that you have a stack here of some stories that I may not have heard.

[Carol]

Right.

[Ray]

And I have a stack of stories that you may not have heard.

[Carol]

Okay. And we don't know in what order.

[Ray]

We do not know.

[Carol]

So we just turn it over and say, okay, I've got a story about.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Carol]

So. And so.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Carol]

Or when this happened.

[Ray]

Yes. And I'm not entirely sure. Some of them, they said Vince has heard and wanted me to retell. And some he has not heard. And he is in the building, so we might hear him laughing.

[Carol]

Good.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

So you want to start?

[Ray]

No, I want you to start. You start.

[Carol]

Okay, I'll start.

[Ray]

Jimmy Stewart. Okay.

[Carol]

Okay. He was my favorite actor. I loved him from the time I was three years old. I remember because I was born in San Antonio. And my grandmother and I would go to the movies. And I remember watching this one movie, Black and White. And my feet didn't touch the floor. So I could. Couldn't have been more than three or four years old. And I'm looking at this big, tall drink of water with this drawl and all. I fell in love.

[Ray]

Sure.

[Carol]

And I said to my grandmother, I said, nanny, I know him. He's my friend. And she said, oh, that's not. And I kept saying that all the way home. And even when she was putting me to bed, I said, he's my friend. I haven't met him yet, but he's my friend. She said, and that's nice. Drink your Oval tea. So, okay, years later, I'm doing a show in Hollywood. A summer replacement show for Dinah Shore. Okay. And I'd done a couple of things on television. And I got a call from a famous director at Warner Brothers. Mervyn Leroy was his name. And he wanted to meet me. And I said, could you come to the studio around lunchtime. I'm shooting a film, and we'll break for lunch and I can talk to you. I was thrilled. So I took the bus, and I had my best outfit on, which wasn't much. I mean. Oh, no, I wasn't naked. What I mean is, the outfit was a bare.

[Ray]

Good, good, good call.

[Carol]

Yeah. So I get in, and I walk to where the studio is, and the red light is going. So I know they're shooting red light up. Now they open the door, and I go in. And Mr. Leroy said, Carol, this is great. You're here. We just have one more little shot to do, and then we'll break for lunch, okay? He said, why don't you sit here? Now, I'm looking. And the set is on a platform with wheels. And the set itself was a desk and a chair. A door. I mean, it was a small room. And so they wheeled the whole thing in.

[Ray]

Oh, okay.

[Carol]

Yeah. And this extra sat behind the desk. And so Mr. Leroy said, okay, you ready, Jimmy? And behind the door was, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm ready.

[Ray]

No.

[Carol]

And I go, oh,

[Jennifer]

my friend, my friend.

[Carol]

Oh, my God. Oh. And so I was just. And the scene was all it was that he knocks on the door. The guy says, come in. And Jimmy comes in. He's a. It was the FBI story was the name of the movie.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

So then he puts his badge down on a desk. Cut. Great. Okay, That's a print. He said, would you like to meet Jimmy? Yeah, would I like. So he said, well, come on. Now. I stepped up onto the set, the platform.

[Ray]

Oh, okay.

[Carol]

And there he is, Viatal. And I'm looking at him. His lips are moving, but I can't hear anything. It's my heart. It's going doom, doom, doom, doom. And finally he stopped talking. And it was time for me to say something.

[Ray]

Uh. Oh.

[Carol]

Oh, God. I said, well, it's time to tie on the old feed bag. Oh, gee.

[Jennifer]

What? Yeah. What? That's the fastest things I've done. Horrible. Wow.

[Carol]

And then I was so embarrassed, I turned around, stepped off the platform into a bucket of whitewash.

[Jennifer]

No, you did not.

[Carol]

Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And then I didn't turn around. I dragged. I had one foot in the bucket, and then I dragged myself out. I didn't look back. I didn't go to lunch with Mr. Lamont.

[Jennifer]

You didn't go get the feedback?

[Ray]

No.

[Carol]

But the nice thing is, a few years later, I did get to know Jimmy and his wife, Gloria. They came over to the house. We had Parties. And they were there. And he surprised me on my final show. Oh, we made an appearance. You can YouTube it.

[Ray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carol]

And just say, carol and Jimmy Stewart. And I had no idea he came to the show. And Tim Conway came out. And so there's a guy here who's been wanting to be on your show for 11 years. He said. So I thought since this is the last show. And the curtain went up and there was Jimmy at the piano singing Ragtime Cowboy Joe. And then he finished, got up and talked to me, and again, boom, boom, boom. Of course, that's by Jimmy Stewart.

[Ray]

I love it. Did he.

[Jennifer]

When you saw.

[Ray]

When you became friends with him years later, did he remember that story that

[Carol]

you did that he did not. Maybe he did, but he was kind

[Jennifer]

enough to not bring it up.

[Carol]

To not bring it up.

[Jennifer]

Hey, remember the feedback?

[Carol]

Let's tie on the old feedback.

[Ray]

That's good.

[Carol]

Oh, my grandmother used to say that. Come on, it's time to tie on the feed bag. Which means time for dinner, somebody.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Carol]

Anyway, that's a good story. Yeah. Now you.

[Ray]

Okay, quick change.

[Carol]

Okay, okay.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Jennifer]

I have told Vince this one.

[Ray]

Okay, so this has to be 20 plus years ago, something like that. First sitcom, I was doing theater, as you did back on the East Coast, New York, and for me, Washington, D.C. and I had been cast as a series regular in a sitcom, a multicam sitcom. And I shot the pilot and then the show got picked up and it was all very, very fast. But when I had come out to shoot it, I knew nothing about the multicam setup. And the people there, the producers, rightfully so, were nervous that I didn't have a lot of on camera experience, like a few, just guest stars, one or two. So they kept trying to explain to me different things, but one of the big things they kept warning me about was, now, don't forget, we do a live show day because we had a live audience that I know you're very accustomed to. And so on show night, we're gonna do the whole show with this live audience. And they kept bringing that up. And I thought, that's the only part I am comfortable with. Why are they worried? I'm fine with an audience getting there, but they just like, just so you know, we'll do the whole thing almost like a play. We'll run through the whole thing and then if there are scenes that are really problematic afterwards, we'll come back and reshoot them or redo them and let the audience go home. I was like, okay, okay. So we spend the week Rehearsing. And I'm looking at this thinking, like, okay, so we're gonna do this whole thing, like a 20 to 30 minute play. Sure. I'm okay with that. But I've noticed. And you remember how maybe the people at home won't know this, but the different sets for a multicam are lined up almost like shoebox dioramas down the length of our sound stages. And so then all the cameras, your A camera, B camera, C camera, and an X camera, they're on those wheels and they're going up and down like this. But I'm looking at it thinking, okay, between scene one and scene two, which takes place the next day, I have a quick change and I only have like two lines left to do it in the first scene. Because in my head, we're not gonna cut.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Cause they kept saying, we're gonna do this like a play.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So I was like, I, wow, How am I gonna. You know, in theater we have dressers and they rip their clothes off the stage and Velcro it.

[Jennifer]

Exactly.

[Ray]

So I'm looking around at the stars, which were Terri Polo, David Sutcliffe, Danny Comden, and I, you know, Ms. Very Green, Ms. Greenacres come to town. So I was like, well, if they're not asking for help with the quick changes, maybe stars just know how to do this. I need to figure it out. I was like, okay, I'm not going to ask for any help. So I go to my costume fitting and I asked them to replace all things that have laces, buttons, or zippers with Velcro, of course, and elastic. I don't explain why. I'm sure these people to this day think that I just have some difficulties

[Jennifer]

with fasteners or something.

[Ray]

Literally, I'm only dressed in, like, geranimals. Like, everything is pull on. They attach. Like, I think I had a vest and a blouse. I was like, can you attach them and make the whole thing pull over? They were like, sure. And then I made my blocking. I constantly try to make my blocking closer to exits. If I'm in the ends of scenes so they can get off faster. Did not explain why show night comes. They put all my costumes in the dressroom. I take them and I hide them in cubbies between the sets so that

[Jennifer]

I could get to them.

[Ray]

The PAs come, put them right back in the dressing room. I was like, oh, dear. I put them right back. Stuff them all in. You can see this pilot somewhere. It's called I'm with Her. And at the end of one of the first scenes that I'm in, I do my last line with my head out the door. Because I am taking my clothes off. I am stripping. Cause I only have, like, three more lines.

[Carol]

No dresser, no nothing. Doing it yourself.

[Ray]

And at the time at Warner Brothers, the network bigwig, people watch it on monitors behind the stages. So they are all seeing me just stripping and having no idea what's wrong with this person.

[Jennifer]

And I'm doing my last line to tear it.

[Ray]

And I'm stripping these clothes off. And then I just start hauling butt down the back to go to the cafe set that's at the end. And I'm grabbing the clothes that I hid. Go flying over a C stand, bloodied shin.

[Carol]

Oh, my God.

[Ray]

Still going. And I can hear them doing the last couple lines.

[Carol]

Oh, my God.

[Ray]

Oh, my God. I get the skirt on and the blouse, and I go out in the cafe. I sit in my chair at this table. It's pitch black, obviously. Cause no one's there. And I'm like, okay, lights come on. I'm gonna be sweating, but I can do this. I'm ready. And then I hear, cut. And then I'm still in the dark. And I was like, they're not starting. I don't know what's happening. And then I just hear Ted was directing it.

[Jennifer]

I hear him go, let's go again. Where's Ray? Oh, no.

[Carol]

Yeah, you go back.

[Ray]

So that is when I realized, oh, we're gonna cut. We're gonna do more than one take.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

They just mean we're doing the whole, like, you know, show. And I went. Couldn't face the network people who just saw me strip naked. So I went towards the audience.

[Jennifer]

And Ted looks down the length of the soundstage.

[Ray]

I'm in a different costume, sweating, bloody. Oh, my God. In the dark by myself.

[Jennifer]

And he's like, ray, why are you

[Ray]

in a different costume? Here's my clever answer. I go, I don't know.

[Jennifer]

And just walked back and changed and went to set.

[Ray]

And. Yeah. I did 23 episodes and never told anybody there what was wrong with me. So.

[Jennifer]

So that's my quick change.

[Carol]

Bless you. Oh. Oh, all right. When I did my show, I never wanted to because we had a live audience.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Carol]

And I never wanted to keep them waiting.

[Ray]

Sure.

[Carol]

We did have to have tape stops, because. Change of scenery.

[Ray]

Sure.

[Carol]

But we would do quick changes and all of that because I did not want to keep them waiting.

[Ray]

No.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

One of the best blessings I found of theater and those of us that came up in it is you're highly aware this is a collaborative art form. I can see those dressers out of the corner of my eye. When you have quick changes and you can see them, like, standing there, like, they're gonna catch you.

[Carol]

I used to have a bet with our crew that I could do a skin out change faster than they could move the couch over to there.

[Ray]

What's a skin out change?

[Carol]

Like, wigs, clothes, everything.

[Jennifer]

Wow.

[Carol]

Yeah, because Bob Mackie would make things just. I would step into something and they'd zip it up or Velcro it and I'm ready.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Carol]

You know, so it was perfect.

[Ray]

That's awesome.

[Carol]

But I've done some, like, guest shots on some sitcoms I won't name where there might be 20 minutes of show. They take five hours to do it wrong. You don't have to do that.

[Ray]

You don't. No clearly bloodied shin. I was ready to do my second scene.

[Carol]

Exactly.

[Ray]

Don't you also love the stuff that happens when you're on stage and something goes wrong and you guys are all on a tightrope and you just look at each other and you're like, it's all right, I got your back. Those are also some of my favorite moments I will never forget. I did a show at Woolly Mammoth Theater called the Big Slam that had a series of walls and. And it wasn't a farce, but it was used to comedic effect. A lot of coming and going in these doors. And I knocked on the door one day for one of these millions of entrances I had as a UPS delivery person, and I knocked on it, and when I went to open the entire set, wall fell instead. And it didn't hurt anybody. Actually, I think it fell back. It didn't hurt anybody. And I'm standing in the open doorway, and I think it was Christopher Lane, my seed partner, without missing a beat, and he goes, they don't make houses the way they used to. And then we just kept on with the scene.

[Carol]

I love that.

[Ray]

I love that stuff. All right, your turn. Okay, Erin and dinner.

[Carol]

Erin, who was my youngest daughter, had three daughters, Carrie, Jody, and Erin. And we would occasionally go take them out to dinner. And Erin, being 5 years old, would sit between me and. And her father. And Carrie would be on this side and Jody would be on the other side of her father. Now, it was hard to get all three of them to be perfect. I mean, one would be off the wall, the other two would be fine at dinner. You know, they were young. So now we went to this Italian restaurant. She's sitting next to me, between me and her father. And so the waiter comes. What would you like? She said, I'll just have dessert. I don't need any dinner.

[Ray]

Nice.

[Carol]

And I said, excuse me. No, no, you don't get dessert until you have had your dinner.

[Ray]

Right.

[Carol]

Well, then I don't want anything. I said, okay, fine. So you don't eat. Now, the other two are thrilled. She's in deep doo doo.

[Jennifer]

Sure.

[Carol]

You know, so they're even ordering vegetables. I mean, nice. And she's sitting there and dinner is sitting. And, like, she would look up at me and I'd look at her, and then she'd turn away, and then she'd look again. I'd look back. I knew she wanted to make up. Yeah, right. Finally, she looked to her father and she said, I love you, Daddy. And he said, I love you too, Erin. And she said, and I also love your wife.

[Jennifer]

At five. That's hilarious.

[Carol]

I let her have dessert.

[Ray]

That's good.

[Carol]

And the other two were so pissed at me. I said, you come up with a line like that.

[Jennifer]

Exactly.

[Carol]

And you can have dessert too, and no dinner.

[Jennifer]

Did you tell him that?

[Ray]

I am rewarding good jokes at this table.

[Carol]

Absolutely. But to come up with that, that's so funny.

[Ray]

And your wife, too. That's very good. I remember we used to go to rock restaurants growing up, and it was considered a big occasion. You had to dress nice and all of that. You know what the biggest thing I would get in trouble for all the time was vinyl boots. Because they were so slippery. Sticky? No, slippery. I loved to, like, go onto the floor. And I got told over and over, stop it. You do it one more time, then you're not capable of sitting at a restaurant. And at the time, I don't know if it was Denny's or someplace like it, but it's the freestanding ones where you park pulled right into the wall. You know, like the cars were pulled straight into the windows that we were in. So I did it again. I got told I had to spend dinner in the car. Now, you'd probably get arrested for putting. I mean, I was probably five or six, but I was in the front seat of the car watching my family have dinner, just wailing. But I never slid down the booth again.

[Carol]

Anyway.

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

What?

[Ray]

You got the cashier.

[Carol]

Okay, okay.

[Ray]

This is my soon to be father in law's favorite story. It is horribly embarrassing, but I shall tell you. So when I was doing a sitcom called Whitney, I had one of those moments. Did you see the Movie Soap Dish with Sally Field. Oh, yeah, I loved it. And you know, when she embarrassingly, like when she's feeling low, would go to the mall so that people would recognize her and then pretend that she didn't want it.

[Jennifer]

Similar ish.

[Ray]

In that we were working at CBS Radford. Big billboards of the Whitney sitcom. And on show day, we'd go just down the street like a block and have lunch at this deli. Everybody there would recognize all of the cast members except me and tell them how much they love the show. I'm standing right there with them in line. It was one of those kind of like Jones on third. Like, you order stuff from a deli. And I was like, no big deal. Whatever. They don't, you know, they don't recognize me. But then it was like every single

[Jennifer]

week that we went, this happened.

[Ray]

And I would kind of try to

[Jennifer]

stand really close to Whitney. I was like.

[Ray]

And still nothing. I'm like, dang it. And it got to the point where they kind of were making fun of me, my cast, good naturedly. But one day we go in and we come down the line and my cast are. I think some of them are ahead and some are behind. And the cashier, this woman that I hadn't seen there before, she was like,

[Jennifer]

oh, oh, my God.

[Ray]

I know you. I know you. I got way too excited, Carol. Cause I was like, finally. And my cast can see me. And I was like, from Whitney? Yes, yes. And so, like, pleased with myself. And she goes, whitney? What's Whitney? And I was like, for the TV show that I'm in. And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I was like, I'm an actress in the show Whitney. She goes, oh, I've never seen that. No, I am a part time manager over at this frozen yogurt shop on Moorpark. And she was like, yeah, every Friday you come in and eat like a huge large frozen yogurt by yourself in the corner. She's like, yeah. I'm always like, there's that girl again. And you're always like. And completely acts out me eating large

[Jennifer]

frozen yogurts by myself. My whole cast is like crying, laughing, oh, my God.

[Ray]

All I could say is like, yep, that's.

[Jennifer]

That's me.

[Ray]

Thanks. Can you weigh my food now?

[Jennifer]

Because I'm gonna go die.

[Ray]

So to this day, when people say, where do I know you're from?

[Carol]

I'm not answering.

[Ray]

I'm not. I'm not falling in that trap ever again.

[Carol]

Well, I lived in an apartment building in New York. And I remember I got in the elevator one day, and a strange lady got in. I guess she'd been visiting somebody. And she said, I know who you are. I know who you are. And I said, carol Burnett? She said, no, no,

[Jennifer]

that's incorrect.

[Carol]

I swear. I'm not lying. And another time, somebody said, you know how I recognize you? I said, no, how? She said, by your face.

[Ray]

Oh, okay.

[Carol]

Ridiculous.

[Ray]

I got. No, I didn't recognize. I knew it was you when you spoke. Cause I was ordering something. I got that one time. And I was like, oh, my voice. And they were like, right. Cause you sound like a man.

[Jennifer]

And I was like, okay, okay.

[Carol]

Sweet compliment.

[Jennifer]

Yes, thank you.

[Ray]

Oh, okay, it's your turn.

[Carol]

Okay, here we go. Oh,

[Ray]

the movie, Front Page. Okay.

[Carol]

Billy Wilder directed it, and it starred Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthaus. And I played the prostitute Molly Malloy.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

And I wanted to do it because I wanted to be with Jack and Walter and Billy Wilder.

[Ray]

And

[Carol]

I was so nervous. I was terrible. I was awful. I mean, and the reviews seconded my feelings, so I never wanted to see it.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

Okay. Now I'm on an airplane. So these. Then they called them stewardesses, right? She said, well, we're very happy today. We're going to be showing the front page. And we have. Oh, no. And I'm in my seat, and I'm going, no. And she said, and we're so pleased that we have one of the stars of that movie on board with us today, Ms. Burnett. And people turned around and waved and. And Spy. And so now. Now the movie starts, and everybody pulls their shades down. Sure. And I'm peeking, and I'm just as bad as I thought I was. And I'm. Oh, finally, thankfully, it was over. All the shades go up. Nobody turns around, away. And I go, oh. So I got up and I went to the stewardess. Now, this is when you could do that. I said, could I speak on the microphone, please? She said, of course. So she gave me. And I said, afternoon. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is Carol Burnett. I just happened to be on this plane when you saw the movie, and I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to each and every one of you for my performance in that film. He applauded.

[Jennifer]

That's awesome. That's awesome. I felt cleansed just purging all of that.

[Carol]

And I got to New York, and then I got to my hotel room, and the phone was ringing, and it was a friend in California saying, what'd you do on the airplane. Somebody had already heard it. Oh, that's funny.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I'm sure that they love that you

[Ray]

were somebody that could just own it, like. Yeah, I know. That was bad.

[Carol]

I'm so sorry.

[Ray]

That's good.

[Jennifer]

I like it.

[Ray]

I like it.

[Carol]

Okay, go, go, go.

[Ray]

Oh, this is sweet. Jennifer Love Hewitt.

[Carol]

Oh, yeah.

[Ray]

You've ever met this young woman, this actress?

[Carol]

No.

[Ray]

She's lovely, much like you. Taking buses when you were saying two auditions. I also took buses everywhere. For my first year and a half in la, my license had expired and I didn't need a car in New York and D.C. and they moved me out for that show. I'm with her that I was talking about. And I would just constantly just live walking distance to Warner Brothers and took buses everywhere, so. And at the time, I can't remember why, but sometimes they'd give you cash if they want to. I'm not sure. I don't know why they didn't just order me a car. I don't know. And there was no Ubers. And people don't realize this, but LA doesn't really have taxis, which I thought you could just hail cabs. But I was like, well, I'm. I got invited to. My whole cast got invited to a Golden Globes party, some big Globes party, Lots of very fancy people. I was very excited. Costumes lent me a dress to wear, and I took the bus there. ABC wanted me to take a car there. I pocketed that cash.

[Carol]

So were you in a formal dress?

[Ray]

I was in a formal dress on a bus.

[Carol]

In a gown.

[Ray]

In a gown. But I got off a stop before the carpet because I don't want to be embarrassing.

[Jennifer]

So then I waltz up, I do

[Ray]

the carpet, we go into the party, and. And I have a lot of social anxiety from time to time, especially when I get very nervous and feel just out of place or I'm not fancy enough to be here. And it was a lot of people. My cast were lovely, but they split up and were all over the place. And it's just. It's hundreds of people in this giant ballroom. I wish I could remember where, but I can't. It was like an octagonal, giant event space. And I started feeling smaller and smaller, you know, till you can't. Like, now you're just in your head, and I'm not capable of having a normal conversation. And I'm just getting more and more anxious. And I was sitting at the bar just drinking water, and Jennifer Love Hewitt, this actress that I admired, had never met before, she's next to me. And she reached over and put her hand on my hand, and she said, do you need to get out of here? And I said. I go, yeah, I kind of do. I said, I'm on a show called I'm with her, but I just don't think I'm doing that well socially in this environment. She was like. She goes, I get it. It can be too much. She was like, I'll take you home. And I said, oh, I know what? Because I told her I had gone outside to try to hail a cab. And that's when I learned that there aren't cabs. I asked the doorman if they could call a cab. They looked at me like I was an alien. I didn't have a cell phone, so that's why I was just sitting there, kind of just drowning in my anxiety. And she said, I'll take you home. She was like, I want to get out of here, too. And I was like, oh, you don't have to do that. And she said, no, no, no, it's fine. I want to go, too, and I'll just drop you at home. I was like, oh, my God, thank you. She said, I have to say goodbye to my, you know, my agent, my manager and stuff, but I will meet you at the door in exactly 15 minutes. And I said, are you sure?

[Carol]

Are you sure?

[Ray]

She said, I promise. It's not a problem. I've been where you are.

[Carol]

She's sweet.

[Ray]

So sweet. So I got up to leave in 15 minutes at said time and realized this octagonal place has, like, eight doors.

[Carol]

Which way?

[Ray]

I don't know which door. So I spend, like, 45 minutes just, you know, kind of, like, sadly dejected, walking door to door. And I'm sure she was doing the same, and I never found her. Eventually got some doorman to call a cab for me, got home, and the next day. That was like a Sunday, I think. And Monday I went back to work, and I go to the set for. For. I'm with her on Warner Brothers, and in my dressing room was a dozen white roses and a card that said, I went to every single door looking for you over and over and couldn't find you. I owe you a ride home for the rest of your life. Love, Jennifer Love Hewitt.

[Carol]

How sweet.

[Jennifer]

Isn't that the sweetest? Oh, my God. I still get goosebumps.

[Ray]

I've never seen her since. I have never seen her since. But, you know, I just think, like, what a kind, kind thing. She literally made me feel like I was gonna be okay. In Hollywood in general.

[Carol]

And look what happened.

[Ray]

Yeah. I'll thank her when I say, oh,

[Carol]

you've got to get in touch with her.

[Ray]

I will. I should.

[Carol]

You should.

[Ray]

I was like, well, maybe she won't remember, but I'll tell her.

[Carol]

Well, you can remind her.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Carol]

Oh, that is so sweet.

[Ray]

Thanks. I thought so, too. I thought so, too. Good people, right?

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Okay, your turn.

[Carol]

Okay.

[Ray]

Harry Connick. Okay.

[Carol]

Okay. I was a big fan, and I met him and his soon to be wife, Jill, years ago at a Golden Globes party. And we kept talking to each other. It was like I'd known him forever. Just loved him, you know? So he invited me to their wedding, which was held in New Orleans.

[Ray]

Oh, sure.

[Carol]

Yeah. So I thought, you know, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to Harry and Jill's wedding. This is. Well, they've got three grown daughters now, so it's a long, long time ago. So I get on the plane, I'm in first class, and I'm sitting on the aisle, and there are no other people in first class yet.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

Second. There are a lot of people there. And then finally, the doors open and all these young Japanese businessmen come in.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

And suits and ties. And they had their computers and everything. And I'm on the aisle, and one gentleman came and he sat next to me. The window. And then it was all full. Everything was full. And so now we're going to take off. And they were speaking Japanese. I'm doing a crossword puzzle, and he's working on something on a computer, whatever. And so we're up in the air and the pilot says, we're going to be hitting a little turbulence, so we recommend that you fasten your seat belts. And the stewardess, as they call them, then again, checking on everybody. The turbulence was so bad.

[Ray]

Oh, no.

[Carol]

That it went like that. One of the stewardesses hit the ceiling with her head and people were screaming in the back.

[Ray]

Oh, my gosh.

[Carol]

They were very silent where I was. And I thought, we bought the farm. That's it. Goodbye. And I thought, oh, my God. And it was up and down and going sideways and people screaming, as I said, very quiet up there. And I looked at him and he looked at me, and I reached over and we touched our hands together and I said, sayonara.

[Jennifer]

That's nice.

[Ray]

Great.

[Carol]

I thought, that's the last person I'm ever gonna see in my life

[Jennifer]

say goodbye to just this stranger. That was.

[Carol]

Well, needless to say, we survived. We lived.

[Ray]

It's fine.

[Jennifer]

Sayonara. I love that.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Okay. Oh, the diaper.

[Carol]

Okay. Can't wait for this one.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Ray]

This is a very short story, but it is very much belongs in the theater canon of things that we were talking about, of what you have to do to pull a show off. So the play was Brimstone and Treacle by Dennis Potter and was later made into a film. But there is a woman at the center of it, a young woman that has been in some sort of very mysterious accident. And it has made her very incapacitated and completely in need of care. And she remains strapped to a hospital bed in the middle of these people's apartment. And throughout the play, you are led to believe by some other cast members, their roles as well as the audience starts to believe that this person may or may not be coming back to cognizance and consciousness. And some of her garbling starts to sound like words. And then it becomes a threatening thing that she may reveal what caused this terrible accident. And it is deep, dark secrets of the family and this stuff. At any rate, to make her very much completely helpless and. And at the will of anybody around her, whether they have good intentions or nefarious intentions, I am lifted and put. I was playing this person lifted and put into this bed on occasion. And you can see that she wears a diaper. Like, that's how helpless they need this character to look. So the play is about an hour and a half long, and the director decided we're gonna do it as a one act because making the audience more and more uncomfortable with having to witness this is part of the journey. And so I drink a ton of water. And I also eat a lot before I go on stage. I know a lot of people don't, but I do. Cause I'm constantly terrified that I'm gonna get hypoglycemic or be thirsty on stage. So normally I drink tons and tons of water, keep hydrated, all of that. But during the rehearsals, I was like, wow, I'm gonna have to pee. And I don't get. I'm the only person that doesn't come off stage. I'm strapped to this bed. And other people come and go, but I never do. And it's purposely to just be this albatross, you know, to the audience that they have to live with and deal with. And I was like, I can't figure out. And so one day I said to my director, I was like, yeah, I'm just trying to. Cause he saw me, like, trying to, like, parse out, like, when I was Like, I'm trying to figure out the perfect timing of when to drink water and when I have to cut it off by so that I can make it 90 minutes without having to pee. And he goes, well, you're wearing a diaper.

[Jennifer]

I was like, I know that he was trying to be helpful, but I was like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna sit in my pee. Suffice it to say, I just went dehydrated. I didn't go for. No, I did not pee in my diaper.

[Ray]

I decided to cut the liquids off instead.

[Jennifer]

But I know he wasn't being mean. He was trying to be helpful. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna pass on that.

[Carol]

This reminds me of a story where I lived for a while at the Wyndham hotel in New York, which was kind of like a lot of Brits lived there. Maggie Smith at times and Glinda Jackson and, yeah, a lot of people. And it was just this funky hotel. And you had a telephone in your room, but it was attached to a Rose downstairs at a switchboard. Okay. So she. You would pick up the phone and say, I'd like to dial this. You dial this number. She would dial the. And she could hear everything, you know. So I came home from shopping, and Rose said, you got a message here, and it's from Marlon Brando in California, who wanted me to give him a call.

[Ray]

Had you met him?

[Carol]

No. Oh. And she said, yeah, that's Brando. She said, I recognize his voice. I said, wow, Marlon Brando. So I went upstairs and I put the groceries down, and I kind of took my coat off. And then I picked up, she was already dialing him, you know. So I get on the phone, and he was very sweet. The thing was, I had had an operation on my chin a couple of years earlier to. Because I had a very weak chin. So I had this orthodontist who fixed just 3 millimeters, just a little more so I could feel the rain when it fell, you know? So he said, I want to know about your chin. And I said, what about my chin? He said, well, my wife's sister has a weak chin. And I had talked about it in People magazine and all that. So he said, who was the doctor? Now here I'm talking to Marlon Brando, and I'm so excited. And I. And then I told him, and he said, so how do you do all this television stuff? What writers? Now he's getting into it, and I realize I have to go to the bathroom, but it's Marlon Brando. It's Marlon Brando, you know? And I said, do you rehearse? And then I was also writing an autobiography.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

And we got on that subject. He said, well, how do you get. And I think I can't reach the phone into the bathroom. Also, he would hear me, you know, I'm going, oh, my God. Finally, I couldn't stand it any longer. And I said, Mr. Brandon. Marlon. Dear Marlon, my other line is ringing. I think it's my daughter, so I have to hang up now. He said, okay, thanks so much. I ran into the bathroom, relieved myself, came back, the phone was ringing. I picked it up. It was Rose. And she said, what other line? Oh, she'd been listening the whole thing.

[Ray]

She listened to the whole thing. Thanks, Rose. At least she didn't out you to him.

[Carol]

I know. That's our peace stories.

[Ray]

That's our peace stories. Yeah, Yeah. I guess you wish you'd been in a diaper, but go ahead. Okay. Okay.

[Carol]

Customer service.

[Ray]

All right. So when I was doing theater in Washington, D.C. we had very little at the time, opportunities to get on camera experience. Like Barry Levinson might do a movie in Baltimore that we would go over and audition for just day player parts or sometimes even smaller, like one line or whatever background work I did. But another way you could get on camera experience and a little extra cash to make ends meet was doing industrials, the in house training.

[Carol]

I did that. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Did you do those?

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Okay. I definitely want to hear about yours, but so I did quite a few of them because there's government buildings that did in house training. And then also a lot of the. What do you call it, like, headquarters and stuff. One of them was. One of them, apparently you can still find, was for restaurant service. The thing to show people how to deal with somebody who's had too much to drink and how to, like, turn them down.

[Carol]

Wow.

[Ray]

I was playing the waitress. And the reason I remember that one is because my friend Chris Walker, who's a brilliant actor, incredible resume, he got the part of the Jim Bean bottle. Literally playing the bottle. And so whenever dude who's had too much to drink and I'm telling him, like, sir, can I get you some water instead? How about a free appetizer on the house? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They cut to him. And with like, very bad post production in his head, he's like, dreamy. It's this. It's my friend doing doot, doot, doot,

[Jennifer]

doot, doot in a Jim Beam bottle,

[Ray]

like, trying to, like, get him to

[Jennifer]

drink more or something. Anyway, so there was that one, and

[Ray]

then the customer service one was, oh, my God. I can't remember if it was Bell

[Jennifer]

at the time or at and T.

[Ray]

One of the phone companies that I think is called something else now. But it was right when they first had. Remember when voicemail switched to. It wasn't a cassette anymore, but you pressed numbers to, like, three to fast forward, two to save, one to rewind. I can't remember all of it. And so they were training the customer service agents to deal with what they knew would be all these phone calls coming in with people who don't know how to handle this. Like, what do I press again? What do I do? And so each of us was assigned, like, a vignette of a problem that would happen and what you would do. I was playing a customer that's calling with a problem, but my customer doesn't know how to hang up a phone.

[Jennifer]

He repeatedly had to say, how do

[Ray]

I end a call, though? And then the customer service person's like, it's the same as always, ma'.

[Carol]

Am.

[Ray]

You just hang the handset back up in the receiver. Nothing's different. But if I want to end the call, yes, ma', am, you just hang that headset.

[Jennifer]

Is the headset the piece I'm holding? I was just like, how is this person crossing the street and not getting hit by a car if they can't handle this?

[Ray]

So I never forgot that one.

[Jennifer]

And I remember the director telling me,

[Ray]

can you do it more quixotically? Which, to this day, I have no idea.

[Carol]

What does that mean?

[Ray]

I don't know. Enigmatic.

[Jennifer]

What is a headset?

[Ray]

I don't know.

[Jennifer]

I'm not sure.

[Ray]

Anyway, what was your industrial that you did?

[Carol]

Aluminum foil.

[Ray]

Good.

[Carol]

And we sang Foil is sweeping the country.

[Jennifer]

Really?

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Unaware of that.

[Carol]

Somebody made it up.

[Jennifer]

You know, Foil is sweeping the country.

[Ray]

Sure. Okay, you're up.

[Carol]

Okay.

[Ray]

New York department store.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

Okay. I'm doing a special with Julie Andrews at Lincoln center and staying at a hotel across the street from this famous New York department store, Bergdorf Goodman.

[Ray]

Oh, okay.

[Carol]

And it's early, and I needed to buy, for some reason, some stockings. Pantyhose.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

And so I thought, I'll run over to Bergdorf's real fast before I go to rehearsal, buy some pantyhose, and I'll be set. Customers hadn't really started coming in yet. I was there just when the doors opened. So I ran upstairs to the lingerie department, and there was this lovely lady with pearls and gray Hair, very sweet. And she said, oh. And she recognized me. And she said, would you. Would you sign some things for my grandchildren? So I said, of course. I signed a whole bunch of. I said, I need some stockings. So she got them. And I didn't have my credit card. I goofed. And I said, could I write you a check? And she said, I'll need some identification.

[Jennifer]

What?

[Carol]

I said, but, you know. She said, I know, but I have to ask for that. I said, but I really need this to connect. And she said, Let me ask Ms. Carlton, who was the floor manager, if she will okay your check. And so Ms. Carlton was sitting way across the. Behind a very pretty antique desk, looking the same with pearls on. And she runs over, she talks to her. She comes back and she said. She said she will okay your check if you would do the Tarzan yell.

[Jennifer]

Really?

[Carol]

So look around. Nobody else is there. I said, okay.

[Ray]

So I went.

[Carol]

It was a doozy. It was a good one. And behind her was an exit door that burst open and there was a security guard with a gun.

[Jennifer]

Oh, no. What? They said, no, shoot. We're okay. And you're just holding your pantyhose.

[Carol]

That's right.

[Ray]

Oh, that's hilarious. Oh, my God. I can't believe that she wouldn't. That she wanted ID to begin with.

[Carol]

Well, that was ridiculous.

[Ray]

That's ridiculous.

[Carol]

After I signed everything. Go ahead. All right.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

Okay.

[Ray]

I wasn't sure if they were gonna pick this up. Carol, this is bad. This is feedback story, but worse.

[Carol]

Oh, I love it already.

[Ray]

I have a tendency when I'm. Which now I feel a little better that you also seem to say things that most of your brain did not. Okay. When you're very, very nervous. So when I get very, very nervous, I do. I sometimes say the worst thing you could say. And so I had. Years ago when I was in dc, had done. I can't even remember if it was a movie of the week or a film or a show, to tell you the truth. But it was with Rob Morrow, and he was very famous coming off Northern Exposure. But I was a background person that got like two little lines. And it was with hundreds of people and he had tons to do. He was perfectly nice to me. But it was one of those things where it was a big deal to me to meet him, but he met 100 people that day. Whatever. Years and years and years and years later, I'm in New York and I get my first series regular audition callback. And it was for numbers. The show. This criminal crime detective type story, and it was to play like his partner, and it's a series regular, and I couldn't believe it. And then I get another callback, and then it's the final callback, and it's also going to be a chemistry read, and he's going to be there, and I have, like, a week before it happens, and I'm just. I'm just spinning. I'm so nervous. And unfortunately, sometimes I also act like, subconsciously almost will sabotage things that I'm very, very nervous about. You know, like, oh, well, I'll just make it so that I couldn't have gotten the job anyway, you know, Terrible. But so in my head, I'm running around going, like, I wonder if I should bring up to Rob that I've met him before, that I did that film, like, all those years ago, right? And it's like, no, don't do that, because that's putting somebody on the spot. And of course he's not going to remember. The guy met hundreds of people that day. And that's not nice. It'll be on my resume. If he remembers it, he remembers it. And I was like, maybe it could help.

[Jennifer]

Maybe it could help me get the job.

[Ray]

I was like, no, don't. No, don't. So I decide. We're not saying. We're not saying anything. All the way up in the elevator. Not gonna say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it.

[Carol]

Walk in.

[Ray]

He stands up.

[Carol]

Hi, I'm Rob.

[Ray]

Nice to meet you. And I said, oh, we've met before.

[Jennifer]

And I'm like. And he, of course, turns blood red. He goes, I'm so sorry.

[Ray]

I'm so sorry. He feels bad. All the producers and the director that are lined up on the table, they're like, oh, they', Ooh, that's uncomfortable. And then it gets so much worse. Carol.

[Carol]

In my head, how could it get worse?

[Jennifer]

Cause I.

[Ray]

The other part of my brain goes, damn it.

[Jennifer]

We said not to say that. Oh, it came out.

[Ray]

And I was like, double down. Make it a joke. Make it a joke. Make it a joke. This is what I said. I go, yeah, we slept together.

[Jennifer]

What? Exactly. I don't even have that sense of humor. I don't make sex jokes. I have no.

[Carol]

I was like, surely you would remember that.

[Jennifer]

He's blood red now. He is like, I am so sorry. Everyone else is frozen, looking at the headshot. They're like, I don't know. What's happening? And I was like, what is wrong with me? This is how I tidy the whole situation up. I go, ha, ha. Just kidding.

[Ray]

Let's do the scene.

[Jennifer]

You guys might be surprised, but I did not get this part.

[Carol]

Oh.

[Jennifer]

I've never seen him again.

[Ray]

Definitely should not contact him.

[Carol]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer]

Can you imagine what the producers were thinking when I left the room?

[Carol]

What were you thinking?

[Jennifer]

It's the worst. My poor agent, Randy, at the time,

[Carol]

she's like, how'd it go?

[Ray]

And I was like, not good.

[Jennifer]

Not good. Oh, I have no idea.

[Carol]

That tops my feedback.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, that's terrific.

[Carol]

And standing in a bucket. That's it.

[Ray]

I don't know. I have no explanation for myself.

[Carol]

None.

[Ray]

You get nervous, though, at auditions. Okay, good. You just don't say it.

[Jennifer]

You don't do the people.

[Carol]

I remember, I can't remember what it was for. I was really young. I was auditioned for something, and it was narrowed down to me and another girl. And I really. I thought I had it. Yeah. And I didn't. She got it. But you know what saved me from being depressed? I said to myself, it's her turn.

[Ray]

Aw.

[Carol]

And when I get letters from kids saying, you know, what do I do if I'm turned out for something? I think just, no, it's your turn will come.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Carol]

But no, it's her turn.

[Ray]

I love that.

[Carol]

And I never got depressed when I lost something.

[Ray]

I love that.

[Carol]

I know. I just thought, well, thank you, Lord. I'm glad that came to me, you know, because then I wasn't ever discouraged and I got turned down a lot, you know. But it helped.

[Ray]

Yeah. When I won the Critics Choice Award recently. I was in the category was Britt Lauer, the brilliant actress. That's the lead of Severance. Female lead of Severance. And she had been nominated for some things as well and won before. And she'd won the Emmy for the previous season, I think, or something. I don't know. She's won lots of stuff, but I won that night. And she sent me flowers the next day. I know her a little bit, just from the parties, and she's always lovely. But I had a big bouquet of flowers the next day, and the card said it was so fun to watch you receive your just flowers.

[Carol]

Oh, that's sweet.

[Ray]

Isn't that sweet? She's a lovely person.

[Carol]

Nice story. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ray]

It's other people's turn sometimes.

[Carol]

That actually makes up for we slept together.

[Ray]

Does it, though?

[Jennifer]

Rob, if you see this, I'm so sorry. I don't Know what happened?

[Carol]

He's another one you should get in touch with.

[Jennifer]

Do you think so? He might hope that I don't.

[Carol]

What if he sees this?

[Ray]

Okay, well, I apologize. All right, you're up.

[Carol]

Here we go.

[Ray]

Carrie and the fib.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

That was my oldest daughter, right? And so she was five or six. There always something happening when they're five or six. Anyway, we caught her in a fib. Not a big deal, but enough to, you know. So she had dinner, and I said, honey, you're just gonna go upstairs and go into your. Get into bed. You're not going to stay up a little later, okay? So she went up, got into bed, and I went in, and she's kind of crying and she's in bed. And I sat down on the bed. And really, we're very close. I said, sweetheart, you know, your daddy and I, we love you very much, but you told a fib. And, I mean, that's not good, because sometimes you think you can get away with it and maybe you'll do it again. And then fibs turn into big lies. And she's looking at me, you know, and I'm thinking, I am going to get a trophy for Mother of the Year. I am really getting to it. You know, I could hear violins in the background saying, you know, I'm just looking at me in a. I am so proud of myself. Finally, I said, all right, sweetheart, is there anything you want to say to Mommy? I said, what, darling? What? She said, how many teeth do you have?

[Jennifer]

What? She was counting my teeth the whole time?

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

That's so awesome. You're like, nope. Didn't hear any of that.

[Carol]

Didn't hear any of it.

[Jennifer]

Nope. None of it.

[Carol]

My trophy.

[Jennifer]

How many teeth do you have? Is hilarious.

[Ray]

That's good. That's okay.

[Carol]

Okay.

[Ray]

All right.

[Carol]

Okay. Glenn Close. Okay.

[Ray]

Have you met her?

[Carol]

Oh, yeah.

[Ray]

I'm sure you have. And I'm sure it went better than mine.

[Carol]

So I want to hear.

[Ray]

I want to hear.

[Jennifer]

This is.

[Ray]

I didn't say anything offensive like my other story, but it is also a situation where I got too nervous. She. And I'm not saying this. Cause you're sitting here, you Meryl Streep. There's just people that, like, they're legends. I thought I was gonna die when I got to meet you. And when I went into. By the way, when I went to my fitting with Jennifer Bryan on Saul for that episode, and I knew that you were there, and I'm going through the script, and I'm like, oh, I Don't have any scenes with her. I was like, I'll just. I'll just say that I need to go to set on the days that you're there and try to meet you. And when I went to my fitting, I asked Jennifer. I said, I go, was Carol already here? Did you get to meet her? Did you get to meet her? She was like, I did. And she's so nice. And. And I said, what? And she was like.

[Jennifer]

And she said that she's a Kim Wexler fan and that she wanted to meet you.

[Ray]

And I bawled. Just bald.

[Jennifer]

I was like, really?

[Ray]

So that's why I just happened to be there at your call time the next day.

[Carol]

We went to dinner and.

[Jennifer]

We went to dinner and started our

[Ray]

great friendship that I adore so much. So it didn't go that well with Glenn.

[Jennifer]

It was Critics Choice Awards, a different one.

[Ray]

I didn't win. But the first ones, when they started to open up after the COVID lockdown.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So they'd get real restricted. And it was one of those things where only the nominee and, like, one other person can be there. No audience. No. No bringing a posse. So it's a really restricted room. And then on the commercial breaks, they dim the lights, and people mill around and talk to each other. And Glenn Close was there for the Wife, which she was so great in. And she was nominated for that. And I was nominated for Saul. And I just really wanted to meet her and tell her how great her work is and how much it has affected me. Which I know there's people that think, like, why bother? They hear that a million times, but.

[Carol]

But I don't know.

[Ray]

I don't care when people come and tell me.

[Carol]

Absolutely.

[Ray]

I just wanted to tell her. And I'm trying to go over and talk to her. Cause I know her category's next, and she might leave. I was like, she's probably gonna win. And sometimes she caught up backstage, and then you never return. I was like, that's my only chance to be here. And I'm sitting with my partner, Graham, and I was like, I'm gonna go try to talk to him. He's like, okay, honey, but quick. They're gonna start dimming the lights. So I go over, and she was talking to friends, clearly, people that she knew very well, like two other women. And they're tucking very close. And I couldn't really get in there. And I knew there was no polite way to, like, squeeze in. And now the lights are dimming again, and Graham's like, hun. We gotta just forget it.

[Jennifer]

You can't.

[Ray]

And I was like, so very rudely, and I feel bad, and, Glenn, if you hear this, I'm sorry, but I just poked my head right between her and her friend. I was like, I just wanted to tell you, Ms. Close, that I just love your work. It was, like, so alarming to everyone. And they all were like, okay. She was nice, but alarmed as anyone would be. So I back up. And then that thing happened in my head where I was like, ooh, we need to fix this.

[Jennifer]

Yes. I hear people groaning. I had this thing that I have recognized in.

[Ray]

I'm not as famous as she is, but that thing you see in a fan where they wanted something to be a moment. They wanted it. Did it register in some way and let it be a little moment, and I feel for them. And so I was having that moment, and I was like, stupid thoughts in my head.

[Jennifer]

Like, she doesn't realize that we could be friends. Like, we're both dominated. We could, like, hang out together. We could have coffee.

[Ray]

And Graham's like, babe, sit. And I was like, what? I just want.

[Jennifer]

I want. So she's now talking to her friends this close.

[Carol]

I

[Jennifer]

don't know why, but I came in from the side, and I thought, I know. I won't disturb her.

[Ray]

She's talking animatedly up here. Let me clear her arms and not interrupt their talking by coming in low from the side and hugging her around the waist. Just hang out.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I am so happy that Graham was

[Ray]

there, because everyone thinks I'm exaggerating, and if he's sitting here, he'll go, nope, nope, she didn't. He was dying.

[Jennifer]

And she's like this. Her friends are like, what do you know? This person acts just like this. Graham has my dress, and he's like, stop it, stop it, stop it. And I was like, I can't. I can't stop. Eventually, he reels me off of poor Glenn Close, and I sit down to a table full of strangers. That's all like, wow, what is wrong with this person?

[Carol]

Did you ever see her again?

[Jennifer]

No, but Vince keeps threatening to have her guest star on our show.

[Carol]

That's another one.

[Jennifer]

No, that's another one. I feel horrible. Jennifer, love, you got all of them all right.

[Carol]

You've got so many you have to get in touch with.

[Ray]

You're making me feel like I'm in AA and I need to make amends to people.

[Carol]

Right?

[Ray]

I probably do.

[Carol]

Oh, get in touch with them until you watch this podcast.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

It's my apology Tour.

[Carol]

It's your apology. It's like me apologizing for Front page.

[Jennifer]

Good.

[Ray]

See? Yes.

[Carol]

You'll feel cleansed.

[Ray]

I will. I will. I'll purge that. Okay.

[Carol]

Go ahead. This is it. Oh,

[Ray]

okay. Walter Matthau. All right.

[Carol]

I was asked to do a movie with him. It was directed by Marty Ritt, and it was called Pete and Tilly. Okay. And he's Pete and I'm Tilly. And I was. It would be on my summer hiatus from the Carol Burnett Show.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

So I was still in the middle of doing our show, and so. But. And I remember we had a first scene, and I was so nervous because he's big screen, I'm a little screen.

[Ray]

Okay.

[Carol]

I felt inferior. I felt like I'm not going to be able to.

[Ray]

And he was not justifiable, but understandable.

[Carol]

He was Walter and all that.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Carol]

And finally, after, like, a couple of days, he said, I'm gonna take you to lunch. Oh, gosh. I'm thinking, what am I gonna eat? I don't want spinach on my teeth. And I'm really nervous and feel out of it. I feel insecure, totally. You know? And so we order, and I hardly saying anything. And he said, so why do you do all this television crap? Crap.

[Ray]

Oh.

[Carol]

All of a sudden, I stopped being nervous, and I said, well, Mr. Matthew Walter. I said, well, Walter. And this was at his peak, okay? He was. I said, you're always doing movies. You do two movies a year, maybe three, you know. And he said, yes. Yeah. I said, how long does it take you to do them? Like, 10 weeks? 12 weeks? He said, yeah, that's right. I said, are they all great or are some of them crappy? He says, I made a few crappy ones. And I said, well, look at it this way. Takes you 10 weeks to make a piece of crap. Takes me five days.

[Jennifer]

That's so good.

[Carol]

Well, he laughed.

[Jennifer]

Oh, good.

[Carol]

Oh, yeah. But you know what? He did that on purpose, just to test you. He wanted to make me less nervous.

[Ray]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[Carol]

And we became very close after that.

[Ray]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Carol]

Yeah. Wow.

[Ray]

So you just, like, locked in in that moment?

[Carol]

Well, I became defensive about it and offensive. You know, I took. And I just said, no, you don't know what. What it is like to do television. Good for you in five days.

[Ray]

I love that.

[Carol]

To do what we do.

[Ray]

I'm gonna make you tell another story because I didn't know if it was gonna be in here. But you brought up your chin surgery.

[Carol]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Please tell the Story of the reshoots

[Ray]

for Annie and how that went down.

[Carol]

Okay, we're doing Annie, and John Houston is the director. He's very sweet of him. And so there's Bernadette Peters, Tim Curry, and me, and we're the three villains. Well, this being the big Hollywood musical, for some reason, instead of doing Easy street, which was the number that with only the three villains the way they did it on Broadway, they decided to open it up with 400 dancers doing on the Easy street with. With monkey grinders and donkeys pulling carts. And. And we're trying to sing about it, and it's taking it totally away from the three Villains. But, okay. Took a week to shoot. At that time, over a million dollars. So it was big. And so, okay. So we wrapped, and I was living at the time in Honolulu. Bernadette flew back to New York, Jim Curry flew back to London. And I had always wanted a little more of a chin. And so there was an orthodontist in Honolulu. And he said, I can do that. And I said, as I said, I don't want to be Kirk Douglas. I just want a little more. He said, like, about 3 millimeters is all, to give me more of a chin. So I had. The procedure went by, and about two months after we had wrapped, I get a call from the producer, Ray Stark. He said, well, we're gonna reshoot the Easy street number with just you and Tim and Bernard. I said, oh, that's great. That's terrific. I said, but, Ray, I have to tell you, I have a chin now. And he said, what? And I explained to him, and he said, oh, with all that Ms. Hannigan drag on that you've got. And it's not gonna be picture to picture, it's gonna be just that scene, and there'll be other scenes all around. I said, I just wanted to point that out. So now get back Tim and Bernadette. We're all on the set in Hannigan's office. And Mr. Houston said, well, what I think we'll do, dear, is we're going to shoot it. When you ran into the closet to look for Annie's locket, we'll pick it up when you're coming out of the closet, okay? So I went to him, I said, Mr. Houston, two months ago, when I ran into the closet, I didn't have a chin. And now I'm coming out of the closet with a chin and thought for a few minutes. He said, well, dear, just come out looking determined.

[Jennifer]

So good. It's so good.

[Ray]

I love that I still have yet to. Since you told me that story. I was just peeing on my pants, and I need to go back because

[Jennifer]

I now want to watch the scenes in Free Spring.

[Carol]

Well, you know, I watched it, and he changed it to where you see me in the closet looking, and there is a chin, but it's not coming out.

[Ray]

My sister Donna laughs at this. It was similar. A call about something I needed to change instead of something I had changed. I had been shooting a pilot, and parts of it were shot in Venice beach on the boardwalk. And they always wanted to do Magic Hour because it's beautiful. So it's very, very backlit. And they were calling me, and they were being very, very sweet. And it was actually the director as well as I forgot who else was on the call, being very, very kind and trying to be professional. But I could tell there was something they wanted to break to me. Like, I was like, oh, what's.

[Carol]

What.

[Ray]

They were like, we just been watching the dailies.

[Jennifer]

It's great.

[Ray]

We love your performance.

[Jennifer]

The chemistry is working great.

[Ray]

We love this. That it's just. It's. It's so. Okay. So there's a lot of backlighting. And I was like, yeah. And it's just certain hair. And I'm like, flyaways. Why would they be this nervous? And then I thought, oh, I have a couple of, like, little mustache hairs that sometimes I forget to pluck. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, let me help this poor gentleman with his embarrassment, having to tell me. I said, oh. Oh. Oh, my gosh, my mustache hairs.

[Jennifer]

I'm so sorry.

[Ray]

I didn't. I'll pluck them. I'll take care of that.

[Jennifer]

And he goes, no, it's more of,

[Ray]

like, a full Santa beard

[Jennifer]

because I have blonde peachbones everywhere. And I was like, sorry, what? And he goes, yeah, it's more like a full beard, like when the sun's behind you. So, yeah, we just. Before we do the reshoot, we'd just love it if you'd wax your face. So I did. Oh, my God. My sister still does. How's your Santa beard?

[Carol]

I don't see anything.

[Ray]

I do. I do. It's okay.

[Carol]

It's gorgeous.

[Jennifer]

Thanks.

[Ray]

Thank you.

[Carol]

Well, it's good that it's not dark, right? At least it's blonde.

[Ray]

It's a light fuzz.

[Jennifer]

It's a light Santa beard.

[Carol]

Oh, my.

[Jennifer]

I could do this chapter after chapter after.

[Carol]

Look what we've got here.

[Jennifer]

Oh.

[Carol]

Oh, thank you.

[Jennifer]

Look at that.

[Ray]

Thank you.

[Carol]

Thank you, Max.

[Ray]

You're welcome. Thank you very much.

[Carol]

Well, it's a Cosmo.

[Ray]

Do you squeeze this in? Do you squeeze it in or leave it?

[Carol]

I just kind of put it in. Okay.

[Ray]

I love you.