A (3:10)

Yeah. What could you watch at that point? There was a version of the pilot, I imagine.

B (3:16)

Yeah, not in the beginning. So Vince was still in the edit and I was really, really lucky and very that I got to watch a cut early on, but not when I first got there. But I remember that scenes and sequences were put together and that I could watch, which was really, really helpful. But it was, I mean, really early on. So there wasn't a lot to see in terms of the world building and the conversations about tone. And again, it was, it's a first season. It wasn't as if you're coming into a fifth season or six season and things are established. So that's really exciting because you get to be a part of the that process from the get go and you get to really listen and absorb and hopefully enter into that collaboration in those early moments. And that's really cool that.

A (4:06)

Well, not only, you know, a new show, but you're jumping in and you're introducing a brand new major character in minusos. I mean, right off the bat and you're also immediately trying to sell that we're not in Albuquerque even though we're shooting in Albuquerque. Talk about your approach to that scene being giving him the kind of introduction that you did and the challenges and how you sort of tackled making this world continent apart. Seem like we were actually shooting it when we were shooting it in Albuquerque.

B (4:38)

Yeah, I couldn't believe it when I read the script and I realized the whole opening feels like its own little movie.

A (4:47)

Right.

B (4:48)

And it feels like you don't know where you are, you don't know who this person is. It's such an amazing opportunity as a director to be able to come in and tell that story. And for me, I leaned on everyone around me. I mean, the team is unbelievable. Marshall the dop, Denise the production and everyone brought so many amazing ideas, was really excited about the challenge of doing what you just described, which you want an audience to lean in and believe it from the get go and you know, false notes or specific details that throw you off, then the kind of magic is gone and you don't believe that you are in the place, in the setting, in the time that you're establishing. So everyone works so hard. Everything, props, details. The actor, Rezka, he had so many ideas about what would be in that space. We had so many amazing. Yeah. Walking through it with Vince and talking about the ideas and what would it feel like, what would it be like? The texture, the weather, the everything about it. The trees. So it was a really, really exciting kind of opportunity to establish the character and establish the time and place.

A (6:04)

How many places did you see for? Did you look at multiple storage places or locations? I mean, what are you looking for when you're scouting for locations like that?

B (6:15)

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's really important. It's part of the process that I love prep. I'm a real nerd about prep. So it's fun and it's exciting to kind of have the options in front of you and to really figure out the choices that you make, how it's going to affect the story. And locations are really, really big part of the process. Like.

A (6:34)

Right.

B (6:34)

And when you go out and you look at locations, you're thinking about so many different aspects of the story that need to be served. And it's hopefully always being led by who is the character, what is the story, and how is the location going to tell that story? How is it going to help elevate the story? How is it going to bring something special to the story? How is it going to either expand the story? So we looked at a few, and I actually had never shot in Albuquerque. This was my first time I was going to ask. Yeah. So it was really fun and interesting to go to these different places. And in the beginning you go and you think, is this really going to work? How's this going to work? And you take your time and you have those conversations and you think about the possibilities and you go back to the script and you think about the character and you think about the story and you start to narrow down the options and you settle on, hopefully, what you think is, like, a real winner. That's really going to work.

A (7:29)

Are those scouts happening? Are you ever doing it at night since so much of this stuff is taking place at night?

B (7:36)

That's right. Yeah. You do both. You know, usually you go during the day. If you know it's night work and you know it's night scene, you go during the day and you think about what is it going to be like at night and usually go back and you do your scouts for many different reasons. You know, obviously, lighting has to go back and grips have to go back Everyone has to go back and see it. But you ideally want to go and get a really good look at the same time of day that you're going to be shooting.

A (7:59)

So you'd never shot in Albuquerque. I have to imagine you didn't expect when you, you did shoot at Albuquerque that you'd be directing the mayor of the city in a scene.

B (8:10)

That is correct.

A (8:14)

He's not an actor. I mean, but what was it like working with him? That's the real mayor, everybody. I think we probably talked about it in the other podcast.

B (8:21)

Yeah, working with the mayor of Albuquerque, working with Tim or Mr. Mayor was really, really fun. He was very cool and excited to be there. And it was not a simple scene that he was in. It wasn't just and Ray, you know, it wasn't a two hander. We had a lot of people there. There were a lot of actors, there was background, there were a lot of moving parts. There were a lot of things that had to be kind of choreographed. We had a lot of elements and he was great. Like he stayed like we were there for a long time and he really had to do it over and over again. And it was fun.

A (8:56)

I remember seeing that and thinking, wow, the mayor really came out there and spent the day with our crew. Although on the pod, the the Roundtable podcast we talked about he was like fielding calls and doing mayor stuff in between shots. But at any point, because there was some wide shots where he's just out there cleaning up stuff and he's just picking up and it's almost like he's doing that sort of roadside cleanup type duty. Except at Carol's house. And did you or anybody ever feel guilty, like maybe we should. The mayor's just in this wide shot here, he's picking up trash.

B (9:32)

I love that. I actually didn't feel guilty at all. I literally remember thinking like, he really needs to look like he's actually doing the things that he's meant to be doing. Like he needs to be cleaning up, he needs to be doing all of it. So I feel bad, but I didn't feel any guilt at all.

A (9:47)

That's perfect. No, you totally sold it. Also in that scene is just the absolutely captivating Jeff Hiller. So as the director coming into the episode, one of the things you're responsible for, in my understanding is some of the casting. You know, there's all these new people and we'll get into the sort of the Please, Carol, please Carol. Convergence people. But Jeff Hiller has this huge scene with Carol in his outrageous bike Outfit. How involved were you in the casting of him, and how did that happen?

B (10:22)

Yeah. Oh, what a joy. What an absolute pleasure that we got to work with Jeff and that he played this role.

A (10:30)

He's so good.

B (10:31)

He's so good. He's so good. But it depends on the show. When I come in to direct, if I'm coming in to direct an episode or a block of episodes, and it's not the pilot. And it depends sometimes a lot of times on how the show works and how the casting process works. But this with Vince and the team, and Allison, our writer, and Trina, you know, our producer who was with us, this was amazing. It was like. It reminds me a little bit about how we used to cast before tapes came in, when you used to go into a room and work with the casting director and sit in the good old days, the good old days of being in the room with actors. And even though this. We did cast this role off tape, we got to really collaborate the team and we got to watch tapes together. We got to talk about it. We got to talk with Vince about it. We got to give notes, think about, okay, who is this character? We learned a lot about the character and what we were looking for as we went through the process. And that's, for me, the best way and casting is. It is everything. I know people say it, but it really is. It's crucial. You want to ideally land on an incredible actor who's going to take that role and surprise you and do something really special with it. And Jeff crushed it.

A (11:50)

He did one of the. I mean, it's the climax of the episode is the convergence that happens out there. The. Please, Carol. Please, Carol. An enormously complicated, deceptively complicated. It's one of those things that, in success, seems simple but is not. Is that fair to say about that sequence?

B (12:12)

Very fair to say. I mean, it was. The thing about reading something like that for the first time when you're coming into direct is, for me anyway, how unbelievably exciting is and how terrifying it is. The movie unfolds in my head, and I think about how it can play out and how magnificent it can be. And then I think, can I? Can I do it? How are you going to do it? And, you know, you take a step back and again, prep is everything, and you start to plan, and you break it down in 5,000 different ways. And you have an amazing team of, again, of people who care so deeply and want to tell the story. And you have Ray, you know, at the heart and at the center of it who works so hard. And all you want to do for me as a director is like, you want to give her this canvas, you know, and you give her everything so that she can do her best work and then we can hopefully all do our best work and make the sequence sing. And it is scary. It's scary at the beginning when you have to think about the how of it. Yeah, it was really exciting. I mean, our first ad, Rich was amazing. Marshall, the dop, just everyone, the team, you know, really incredible.

A (13:30)

And do you storyboard a sequence like that?

B (13:33)

So. Yes. Yeah, we did storyboard. What was really incredible was Marshall actually we did two, I would say like two versions of storyboard. We did a traditional, you know, storyboard with Warren, who's a storyboard artist I've worked with a bunch of times. He's amazing. And then Marshall actually did digital and that was amazing. I'd not worked like that. I had not done both of those for a sequence. And that was really exciting because you could do kind of analog old school boards, which I love to do because it really. For me, like, I still have a script with. I use pencil and paper and I love.

A (14:10)

You do that for every scene. That's like your homework. That's part of your homework.

B (14:14)

Yeah, I still use a script with a binder. I use post its. I have. Yeah. Leslie Linka Gladder, who's a mentor of mine. I remember when I was shadowing her and. And we talked about scripts and I've kept A lot of the way I still work is I put pencil on paper. I usually shot list. And if there's a big sequence and I storyboard, I do it that same way. I work with, you know, a lot of times I work with Warren and Marshall was amazing using this kind of digital tool. That was really exciting. And so we did a lot of revising and figuring out, you know, where is the story, what's the right angle, how. How are we going to keep this horror thriller aspect of this sequence alive?

A (14:55)

You also did some rehearsals too, right? Like taping out the. Or marking it?

B (15:00)

Yes.

A (15:00)

Yeah. What was it? And was Nito involved too in having everybody. How did you use those rehearsals as far as preparing everybody to accomplish what you needed them to accomplish on the day?

B (15:11)

Yeah, I mean, I love rehearsals anyway. You know, I worked in theater and I'm always happy to work how the actors want to work. Some actors love to rehearse a lot, some don't. But a sequence like this for me is really crucial. If you can put the time in, in advance. The idea of getting there on the day and never having rehearsed this, I don't know. You know, Richard was amazing about from the get go when we were sitting in prep and talking about the rehearsals that we needed. You know, it was so great, like as a choreographer, so smart and so in tune in terms of tone and the world that was being built and the movement and what we needed. And we kept rev and revisiting and we did rehearsals together. Nito went and did rehearsals on his own. I can't remember what we call them. I think we had circles of the others that were coming and we would break down the rehearsal like the immediate, then the circles and then we had actors and we had so many background that had to perform in that sequence. And so the rehearsal process was organized so that we could spend time with the actors, then build it out, spend time with the circle that was right around them and then continue to build out. And yeah, it was a lot of preparation that went into it and absolutely necessary. Again, I can't imagine turning up on the day and just thinking it's going to happen.

A (16:37)

Abby, it is preparation that paid off. There's a common thread in this podcast. In general, it's just prep, prep, prep. Like preparation is so important. Along those lines, I have one last question for you. I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast and are interested in the sort of the process are aspiring filmmakers themselves or directors. What advice would you give to somebody coming in as a first time director to a show like this? Words of advice or things that help you? Anything that comes to your mind.

B (17:11)

Yeah, I mean there's, there's so many things to, there's so many ways of coming into a show as a director and episodic. And for me it's about remembering that this is a show that someone has created, that they've lived with it for however long. Like, I mean, I was such a fan of Vince's, like, I mean like so many people, I'm sure. And for me, going into this world, into a show that he created with Ray, who again, I was such a fan of her work, and then getting to meet all the collaborators that he's had for so many years and learning about how they've worked together and how they've stayed working together just tells you the kind of environment you're going into as a director and you are the guest you're coming in. And my advice would be soak it all up, like really listen, really appreciate the talent, the artistry, the hard work, the collaboration that, that all of these talented people have been working on for many, many years and come in there with a little bit of humility and openness and understanding that you're coming in to tell a story and you're coming in as a director and to have a strong point of view and people are looking to you for that. That's our job. But also understanding that you are working with a team of people that really care about each other and have learned how to work in a certain way. And I love that and I value that. And I want to learn the best possible way to get everyone to do their best possible work. So my advice would be come in with that sort of gratitude, that optimism, your strong point of view, your take on the material, but definitely stay open to the team and what they've built for that time.

A (19:03)

That's great. That's very, very succinct and very great advice. Thank you so much for joining us and giving your time like that.

B (19:11)

No, it's really, really fun to chat with you.

A (19:15)

All right, thank you so much to Zetnafuentes for joining us on this bonus episode for 104. And thank you for listening to Pluribus, the official podcast, an Apple TV podcast produced by High Bridge Productions and Sony Pictures Television. Be sure to follow on Apple Podcasts to get the next episode in your feed and watch Pluribus on Apple TV where available. Our editor and mixer is Nicholas Tsai. Theme music by Dave Porter. Associate producers are Alana Hoffman, Justin Verbeest and Nicholas Tsai. Executive producers are Jen Carroll and me. Your host, Chris McCaleb. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts.