Pluribus: The Official Podcast – S1E5 “Got Milk”
Original Air Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Chris McCaleb (Editor, Host)
Featured Guests:
- Joey Liu (Editor)
- Dave Porter (Composer)
- Arielle Levine (Writer)
- Gordon Smith (Executive Producer, Director)
- Nicholas Tsai (Assistant Editor, Mixer)
Episode Overview
This episode of the Pluribus official podcast dives deep into the making of Episode 105, “Got Milk.” Host Chris McCaleb is joined by key crew members to offer an inside look at creating one of the most visually and emotionally ambitious chapters of the Apple Original series. Topics range from directing large-scale exodus scenes, the challenge of minimal dialogue, music composition for both orchestra and montage, working with wolves (and wolf-dogs), to orchestrating comedic drone mishaps. The team’s freewheeling conversation is full of detailed behind-the-scenes stories, humor, technical breakdowns, and the creative decisions that shaped this standout episode.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Editing and Crew Dynamics
- Joey Liu stepped in as editor when Chris McCaleb was on pre-planned vacation.
- Nicholas Tsai’s first union show as assistant editor, praised for his transition and technical skills.
"It was great to come back and assist Joey on this episode. And that was kind of my breaking into the show mid season. Lot of visual effects and such to deal with on this show and especially this episode." — Nicholas Tsai [02:17]
Script and Dialogue
- The episode’s script was deceptively brief (approx. 39 pages) with far less dialogue than usual, requiring precise descriptive writing to communicate intent and mood.
"[T]he page count is low. This is a big episode." — Arielle Levine [02:56]
The Hospital Exodus Scene (A Cinematic Feat)
- Gordon Smith drew inspiration from the film I Am Cuba for the exodus shot, aiming for a “oner” (single, unbroken take) feel—for fluidity and scale.
"I was like, God, if we could do something like this." — Gordon Smith [05:27]
- Choreographing hundreds of extras and coordinating a crane camera for synchronization required days of prep and a tight shooting window at dawn to capture light just right.
"Paul was like, no, we really wanted to shoot. It's like between 7 and 8 or something like that in the morning, which meant a really early call." — Gordon Smith [06:36]
- The dramatic exodus shot involved composite VFX to depict a realistic, massive departure from Albuquerque.
"We constructed it out of so many pieces, too. Out of, like, lots of different footage... and then replace them with cars that I think are just photorealistic." — Chris McCaleb [10:32]
Notable Cameos and Humor
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Patrick Fabian (Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul) voiced a recurring, increasingly funny PA announcement.
"That message gets funnier and funnier the more you hear it. It's funnier and funnier." — Gordon Smith [07:19]
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Rhea Seehorn’s professional reaction to hearing Patrick’s voice unexpectedly on set impressed everyone.
"She was such a professional. She did not break at all." — Joey Liu [07:54]
Visual Effects and Technical Challenges
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The landmark rooftop shot was achieved via set builds and digital compositing to insert Rhea Seehorn into a sweeping cityscape at sunset.
"There was so much work to be done in this episode. We had units going at various places... We had to kind of do it at sun is setting." — Gordon Smith [09:30]
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VFX partner Rodeo Visuals took two months to complete the exodus composite, stitching footage and digitally animating car taillights realistically.
"Rodeo needed, like, two months to build that shot." — Nicholas Tsai [10:17]
Musical Architecture
Orchestral Score
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Dave Porter discussed the unusual timeline and workflow using live orchestras and choir, which meant composing before final VFX were complete—often scoring to unfinished scenes.
"A little bit it's throwing a dart in the dark without you guys having. Explaining it to me." — Dave Porter [11:30]
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On finding the musical “tempo” for each edit:
"For me, when I start to write, my first goal is to find that timing and find that tempo. And in truth, sometimes it comes to me very quickly, and other times it takes a while, but I start with only a metronome at just a click that's just clicking away." — Dave Porter [16:05]
Leitmotifs and Character Themes
- The episode includes subtle musical references (“leitmotifs”) to Carol and Helen’s relationship to gently evoke emotion.
"When she's in the bed and looking over right across the bed and there's nobody there. Just that little, hopefully haunting hint to remind us that Carol is absolutely always thinking about Helen." — Dave Porter [19:20]
Needle Drops and Montage
- The teaser’s exodus montage features “Deo Gracias” (Johan Ockenham), suggested by Gordon Smith to convey both the scale and emotional detachment of the moment.
"It was even more just temping it in, but it worked pretty well to do it." — Gordon Smith [20:57]
- The paver laying montage uses Khruangbin’s “A Calf Born in Winter,” with the temp track kept all the way to final cut.
"As soon as we laid it down, I was like, oh, this is perfect. This is great. Yeah, it gets a tone and everything." — Joey Liu [24:13]
Iconic Visuals and Montages
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The “Well of Souls” shot—a visual homage to Indiana Jones, captured at sunset after careful planning—gave emotional resonance to Carol’s labor of grief.
"That was the guiding point that I could take from the script and say, all right, well, I don't want this to feel rough and ugly. You want to emphasize that it's work, but that it's a labor of absolute love." — Gordon Smith [30:59]
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The grave-covering montage was designed to evoke Carol’s sorrow and love rather than her pain, visually accentuated by music and light.
Drones as Both Story and Comedy
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The drones, portrayed by real drone operators, became characters unto themselves, noted for their comedic “earnestness,” especially during the trash pickup fail—a real drone crash, not VFX.
"We're probably the only show currently using drones in the business that actually included the drones in the footage." — Gordon Smith [32:41]
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The drone sequence was painstakingly shot over many takes; a more elaborate version was scrapped due to time, but the final comedic crash was effective.
Wolves, Wolf-Dogs, and On-Set Animal Training
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The wolves were in fact trained wolf-dogs (Rip, Kaya, Ricky, Koda, Cora), requiring careful handling for just the right “performance”; multiple takes composited for the best, most “dangerous” look.
"They're going to do certain things. You're going to get a certain performance once maybe." — Gordon Smith [37:14]
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The wolf sequence featured Dave Porter’s intense, orchestral “wolf score,” which even challenged professional session players.
"I heard a lot of them practicing the runs that are in this because they're trickier than normal." — Dave Porter [39:05]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On the Visual Style and Scale
“The choreography of the people, the camera, the feeling of it is so big and cinematic. And I just love that.”
— Chris McCaleb [03:14]
On Writing and Directing Without Dialogue
“You have to be very clear with what you’re telling the crew and, like, the point of the scene and all of that.”
— Gordon Smith [04:37]
Funniest Cameo Reaction
“Rhae didn’t know that that was coming and that it was going to be Patrick. She was such a professional. She did not break at all.”
— Joey Liu [07:54]
On Montage Philosophy
“You want to emphasize that it’s work, but that it’s a labor of absolute love.”
— Gordon Smith [30:59]
On Drones’ Accidental Comedy
“The drones have a character to them. I feel like in their performance, they're really going to try and get the garbage out.”
— Gordon Smith [33:21]
On Orchestral Music’s Subtlety
“Just want to feel it but not hear it. You’d want to make the audience feel something and not know why they’re feeling it.”
— Gordon Smith [20:02]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Meet the roundtable, episode intro | 00:05 | | How Joey Liu became the episode’s editor | 01:20 | | VFX and the challenges of big, silent script | 02:32 | | The epic hospital exodus: inspiration, staging | 03:47–07:19 | | Howard Hamlin/Patrick Fabian cameo | 07:14–08:12 | | Compositing the rooftop & sunset VFX | 08:39–10:32 | | Music, orchestration, composing with VFX delay | 10:48–14:51 | | Process of matching score to edit/rhythm | 14:51–17:23 | | Leitmotifs and character music | 17:24–20:34 | | Needle drop: “Deo Gracias”/temp music process | 20:34–23:07 | | The paver montage & “A Calf Born in Winter” | 23:28–25:40 | | Building the paver montage, behind-the-scenes | 26:06–28:43 | | Visual terminology and “Well of Souls” shot | 27:17–28:43 | | Montage scripting and direction philosophy | 28:43–31:36 | | Drones: From comedy to technical execution | 32:06–35:20 | | Science humor: “Basically neutral” line | 35:58–36:10 | | Working with wolves/wolf-dogs on set | 36:24–38:53 | | Intense “wolf” music and orchestra challenges | 37:32–39:05 | | Wrapping up & end credits | 39:41–end |
Conclusion: Episode’s Impact
This conversation highlights the collaborative craftsmanship behind Pluribus’s “Got Milk.” Listeners gain a clear sense of how technical excellence, creative risk, and humor all drive the production. From silent montages to epic animal wrangling, and a balance of visual grandeur and emotional intimacy, the episode is a masterclass in cinematic television—one fueled equally by in-the-trenches teamwork, musical innovation, and the “blessing of time.” A standout, both on screen and behind the scenes.