Pluribus: The Official Podcast

Season 1, Episode 7 – “The Gap” (December 12, 2025)

Host: Chris McCaleb
Guests: Vince Gilligan (creator/executive producer), Jen Carroll (writer), Adam Bernstein (director), Carlos Manuel Vesca (“Minusos”), Nicholas Tsai (assistant editor/mixer)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the making of “Pluribus” Episode 107, “The Gap,” focusing on the creative and production challenges faced by the team. The conversation covers story inspiration, the logistics of shooting across international locations, the intricacies of a highly visual script, and standout performances—especially in depicting isolation, physical endurance, and the passage of time. Listeners get an array of behind-the-scenes stories, as well as memorable anecdotes illustrating the dedication and artistry behind the Apple Original Series.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Inspiration for the Episode: Isolation and Singing

• The episode’s motif of characters coping with isolation, especially through singing, came from the writers’ fascination with the show Alone, where survivalists sing to stave off lonely silence (01:49).
• Jen Carroll (writer):
  “One thing that inevitably happens when these people are alone for a certain amount of time is they can't stand the silence. And they start singing to themselves.” (01:53)
• The choice of songs was carefully curated—Carol’s musical references serve both as humor and a subtle indicator of her psychological state, culminating in the deliberate cut of the line “I feel fine” from the R.E.M. song as a storytelling device (03:15).

Visual Storytelling and Directorial Challenges

• The script was Jen Carroll’s first for television, featuring rare, almost montage-driven visual storytelling (03:54, 04:04).
• Director Adam Bernstein relished the opportunity to work on an episode with so little dialogue and so many visual set pieces: “That's the most interesting assignment I've had in television... it's a dream [for a director]. It doesn't come around that often.” (04:04)
• The episode purposely contrasts Carol’s “emotional descent in isolation” with Minusos’s grueling physical journey, both visually and tonally (04:40).

Location Scouting & International Filming Logistics

• Filming occurred in geographically diverse locations: New Mexico and the Canary Islands (site-dressed as South America) (05:51, 09:45).
• Production spent significant effort to gain respectful, thoughtful access to sacred tribal lands (Jemez Pueblo) for authenticity. The cast recounts the ceremonial prayers and community support they received (06:45–08:15).
• Jen Carroll:
  “They were so supportive... It really is the sacred land for them... We were just trying to be as respectful as possible.” (07:19)
• The production’s adaptability is highlighted by using locations like the Gilman Tunnels (featured in 310 to Yuma) and recreating “mountain villages" closer to home when possible (08:54–09:06).

The Iconic Car and Production Adventures

• Minusos’ journey features an old MG car, sourced and modified in both America and Europe for authenticity and matching details; a total of four cars were used to accommodate different shooting locations (13:23–13:55).
• Burning the car was a particular challenge, both logistically and emotionally for Carlos Manuel Vesca, who became attached to the vehicle (11:30–12:15).
• Vesca:
  “It was hard burning that car... it was painful.” (11:30)

Staging Montages (“French for Overtime/Over-budget”)

• Extended montages required exhaustive storyboarding, careful scheduling, and creative shot variation to keep the sequences fresh (09:45, 14:09, 15:42, 15:15).
• Adam Bernstein:
  “You have to storyboard it, especially to maintain what you’re talking about [diversity], because there was so much driving with Veska…” (15:42)
• The Canary Islands proved ideal for simulating diverse South American environments due to their unique microclimates (16:25).

Acting and Keeping Track of Emotional Progression

• Carlos Manuel Vesca discusses maintaining the character’s emotional and physical trajectory across a non-linear shooting schedule:
  “Fortunately, I had a lot of people reminding me where in the journey he was, because we shot everything chronologically except for this... next scene, no, you have to go back and be less tired.” (20:05–21:37)

Editing and Mapping Minusos’s Journey

• Chris McCaleb (host/editor) highlights the intricate work of editing journey sequences—including the “Indiana Jones-style” journey maps, crafted by artist Oliver Scott to look photo-realistic and match the episode’s pace.
  “It’s tricky because it’s not just like, isn’t this cool? Let’s put some music on. It’s an epic journey and it’s an emotional journey, but it’s also fun to watch…” (22:24).

The Chunga Palm Ordeal: Production, Performance, and Cultural Layers

• The Chunga Palm (“monster tree”) sequence, a harrowing moment for Minusos, is recounted with humor and reflections on how different cultures perceive the plant—threatening for outsiders, a resource for locals (26:38–27:47).
• Creativity and movie magic: Styrofoam rocks and manufactured trees ensured safety and environmental compliance, while practical effects blended seamlessly with visual effects (29:07–30:39).

Portraying Isolation and Time Jumps

• Carol’s storyline skips over weeks, jumping from her “best day ever” to total silent withdrawal—a narrative choice to showcase the psychological toll of isolation by highlighting only the most impactful moments (31:06–32:44).
• Golf ball and glass destruction scenes cleverly combined real action with digital effects (32:58–34:02).

Contrasting Characters and Thematic Resonance

• Carlos Manuel Vesca draws a poignant thematic comparison: “She seems to have everything material at her hand. She has everything she wants, and yet she looks empty. And this other guy... doesn’t have anything and yet he has a purpose.” (34:55)
• A meditation on happiness and fulfillment—Carol’s abundance versus Minusos’s purposeful deprivation (35:29).

Licensing Art and Museum Partnerships

• The team tells the story of securing rights and recreating Georgia O’Keeffe’s Belladonna for a key plot point, detailing the extensive partnership with the Georgia O’Keeffe Museum and the painstaking effort to match the artist’s “exact shade of white” (36:07–38:49).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Attribution | |-----------|--------|-------------| | 03:15 | “It was always planned that we would do that hard cut out before ‘fine’ so that the audience would be thinking, is she fine? Is she okay? Has she gone crazy?” | Jen Carroll | | 04:04 | “To do an episode that's so visual... for a director, it's a dream.” | Adam Bernstein | | 07:19 | “They were so supportive. And it really is the sacred land for them.” | Jen Carroll | | 11:30 | "It was hard burning that car... it was painful.” | Carlos Manuel Vesca | | 14:25 | "Was it Stu Lyons… who said montage is French for ‘overtime’?” | Chris McCaleb | | 15:42 | “There was so much driving with Veska, so you didn’t always want to be repeating the same type of shot.” | Adam Bernstein | | 16:28 | “They call it a microcontinent... it has all these different climatic zones.” | Vince Gilligan | | 20:48 | “You talk about looking for different ways of addressing the same thing with different emotional states.” | Carlos Manuel Vesca | | 22:24 | "It’s tricky because it’s not just like, isn’t this cool? Let’s put some music on. It’s an epic journey and it’s an emotional journey, but it’s also fun to watch.” | Chris McCaleb | | 27:10 | “For someone who doesn’t belong to that place, that thing is terrifying... for [locals], it’s like a friend.” | Carlos Manuel Vesca | | 32:44 | “Often when things break in your brain… sometimes things break all at once and you’re fine just right up until the point that you’re not.” | Jen Carroll | | 34:55 | "She has everything and yet she looks empty... this other guy… doesn’t have anything and yet he has a purpose.” | Carlos Manuel Vesca | | 35:29 | “Happiness... [is not] in things that we get outside yourself. Like happiness is exogenous, where I think it’s endogenous, it’s in yourself.” | Carlos Manuel Vesca | | 38:49 | “The trickiest part about the painting... was getting Georgia O’Keeffe’s white.” | Jen Carroll |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Carol’s Singing and Silence: 01:35–03:37
• Visual Storytelling Approach: 03:45–04:40
• Shooting on Sacred Land & Location Details: 05:42–08:54
• Vehicle Logistics and Burning the Car: 11:30–13:55
• Montages, Editing, and Music Choices: 14:25–22:24
• Minusos’s Ordeal and Chunga Palms: 26:34–30:39
• Time Jump and Character Descent: 31:06–32:44
• Thematic Resonance – Fulfillment vs. Emptiness: 34:55–36:06
• Licensing and Recreating Art: 36:07–38:49

Tone and Takeaways

The episode flows with a warm, collaborative, and sometimes humorous tone, marked by respect for craft and location, awe at the demands of visual storytelling, and a philosophical undercurrent about isolation, purpose, and happiness. The roundtable, led by Chris McCaleb, openly celebrates the unique creative risks and production feats of "The Gap", expressing deep gratitude for the cast, crew, and global partners who brought the challenging episode to life.

For more behind-the-scenes stories, follow and listen to Pluribus: The Official Podcast on Apple Podcasts—and watch Pluribus exclusively on Apple TV.