Pod Force One – Episode Summary

Podcast: Pod Force One
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post columnist)
Guest: Hameet Dhillon, Assistant Attorney General, Civil Rights Division, DOJ
Episode Title: America's Top Hate Crime Prosecutor Talks Battling Antifa, Anti-Semitism, and the Deep State
Date: December 10, 2025

Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging interview with Hameet Dhillon, the newly appointed head of the DOJ's Civil Rights Division and the nation's leading hate crime prosecutor. Dhillon and host Miranda Devine discuss her dramatic arrival at DOJ, the sweeping changes under her leadership, the “self-purge” of career staff, battling anti-Semitism and religious hate crimes, resetting priorities away from legacy DEI agendas, and her personal story as an immigrant and conservative legal disruptor. The conversation also explores the "deep state," the weaponization of government, attacks on conservative lawyers and activists, and Dhillon’s motivation to serve at great personal sacrifice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Turbulent Arrival and DOJ Shake-Up

• Confirmation & Tone-Setting:

  • Dhillon describes a fraught Senate confirmation marked by intense opposition from Democrats and liberal civil rights groups.

    “The knives were already out … I think they might have been surprised at the speed and determination with which we immediately made changes.” (00:46 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Immediate Actions:

  • Sent 50 demands to top universities for compliance on DEI issues and laid out a reorientation memo to all sections, emphasizing rule of law and new priorities dictated by the administration.

    “We’re still going to enforce all these laws, but through a different lens.” (02:11 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Mass Exodus of DOJ Lawyers

  • More than half the Civil Rights Division’s staff quit or accepted buyouts, nearly 70% in total.

    “More than half the lawyers in the Civil Rights Division reacted to these memos by quitting.” (03:25 – Hameet Dhillon)
    “They had crying sessions together … unhappy hours … a support group outside and a spokesperson who constantly goes on MSNBC and thrashes me.” (04:00 – Hameet Dhillon)

2. Reshaping DOJ’s Mission

• Conservative Shortage in Public Service:

  • Dhillon laments the lack of conservative lawyers serving in government compared to the ideological commitment of their liberal peers, who are supported by institutions.

    “The conservative side has not done a great job of encouraging lawyers to do their tour of duty in the government … we do not have institutions like that … on the right.” (07:37 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Law School and Legal Culture Bias:

  • Conservative law students face difficulties in getting jobs and clerkships due to ideological exclusion from mainstream legal institutions. (08:51 – 10:01)

• Personal Sacrifice and Motivation:

  • She sold her firm, made a substantial financial cut, moved from California to D.C. (“the swamp”), and did so out of a sense of duty and opportunity to effect real change.

    “You get a request like that to come help your country; what are you going to do? See, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.” (11:17 – Hameet Dhillon)

3. Weaponization of Government & The Deep State

• Systemic Partisanship and Entrenchment:

  • Dhillon details how the DOJ and federal agencies remained ideologically captured beneath the political appointee level through successive administrations.

    “In all the years ... the Civil Rights Division didn't change at all … lawyers … had been there for their entire 30, 40, even 50 year plus careers.” (15:21 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Critique of Left’s Network:

  • She points to a well-funded, coordinated apparatus (e.g., Arabella Advisors, Soros groups) effectively pushing culture and policy at the state and federal levels, compared to the fragmented conservative efforts. (17:07 – 18:11)

• Biden/Obama White House Dynamics:

  • The current administration is effectively “Obama’s third term,” run by holdover staff and aligned consultants.

    “Almost all the personnel puppeteering the White House were Obama personnel… Susan Rice … Lisa Monaco…” (18:42 – Hameet Dhillon)
    “It was Obama’s third term … now with some personal axes to grind … the Biden family business had to keep running.” (19:11 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Lawfare and Surveillance:

  • Alleges coordinated abuse of prosecutorial power: targeting attorneys for Trump, Project Veritas, and pro-life centers, piercing attorney-client privilege, and use of investigative powers against opponents.

    “We were part of the investigative targets … because we represented the Republican National Committee … and the Trump campaign.” (27:06 – Hameet Dhillon)

4. Civil Liberties, Free Speech, and Censorship

• First Amendment Absolutism:

  • Dhillon’s lifelong passion for First Amendment – from student journalism to representing censored conservatives.

    “The First Amendment is sacred to me... that’s why I went to law school.” (21:36 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Censorship Collaborations:

  • Details how government-adjacent groups, “pseudo-nonprofits,” and political actors used big tech platforms to throttle conservative speech — a phenomenon slowed only by changes in Twitter/X ownership.

    “A Democrat consulting firm … paid $25 million to … see who's saying wrong things on the Internet and how can we make them stop.” (31:31 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Wikipedia, AI, and Defamation:

  • The rise of AI “hallucinations,” Wikipedia bias, and the reinforcement of ideological narratives through search, as well as potential (but limited) legal recourse. (32:35 – 35:36)

5. Tackling Hate Crimes & Civil Rights

• Uneven Enforcement and New Direction:

  • Dhillon outlines a major shift: aggressive enforcement of hate crime laws for all Americans, including Jews, Christians, and whites; cases against anti-Semitic agitation, anti-Christian attacks, and pro-faith First Amendment violations.

    “…everybody – white people have rights, men have rights, everybody has rights in this country. Christians.” (37:23 – Hameet Dhillon)
    “In the less than eight months … I think we brought more cases to protect people of faith than entire four-year administrations.” (40:38 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Addressing High-Profile Hate Crimes & Anti-Semitism:

  • Actively pursuing cases involving synagogue blockages, violent attacks on minorities in “blue cities,” firebombing of religious institutions, and relentless civil rights violations by activists. (35:36 – 39:03)

6. Personal Journey & Resilience

• Immigrant Story:
  • Born in India; her father a doctor, her grandfather an Air Force general; emigrated to the US, faced rural Southern racism (KKK signs in her childhood town).

    “There were signs … ‘the grand dragons of the Ku Klux Klan welcome you to Smithfield, North Carolina’ … My parents didn’t know what the Klan was.” (44:26 – 45:56 – Hameet Dhillon)

    • Parents exercised their Second Amendment rights out of prudence.
• Resilience in the Face of Adversity:
  • Early bullying in school, professional setbacks, and her family’s “tough it out” approach gave her the tools and thick skin for legal and political battles. (47:15 – 48:31)

7. Building a Conservative Legal Movement

• Choosing Clients and Starting Her Own Firm:

  • Left the “soulless” world of big law to represent controversial conservatives (e.g., Andy Ngo, James Damore). Established a successful law firm and a nonprofit legal foundation (Center for American Liberty). (53:05 – 58:29)

    “I only took clients and cases that I believed in personally and liked. It was a very blessed way to practice law.” (54:22 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On Being Conservative in Law:

  • Family’s conservative values—both economic and cultural—were formative. Involvement in conservative student media and legal organizations from a young age cemented her perspective. (49:53 – 55:51)

8. Personal Loss and Faith

• Marriage, Loss, and Caregiving:
  • Dhillon recalls her marriage to Saurav (a Democrat-turned-Republican), being his caregiver during illness, and supporting her parents in parallel health crises—underscoring her commitment to family and faith. (59:03 – 66:28)

    “It was a privilege. … Everyone should be so lucky if they're sick to have a loving spouse … that was a beautiful thing.” (64:43 – 66:28 – Hameet Dhillon)

    • Emphasizes the role of faith in resilience and caring for elders.

9. Political State of Play and Concerns about the Future

• Deep Partisanship & The Filibuster’s Future:
  • Warns of the implications if Democrats abolish Senate rules like the filibuster, open the path to Supreme Court-packing, and permanent electoral advantage.

    “There’s no courtesy anymore between the parties. … There’s no comity. The Obama era abolished that.” (70:15 – Hameet Dhillon)

• Urgency, Accountability, and Limits of DOJ:
  • Notes public impatience for prosecutions against “deep state” actors, but underscores DOJ's ethic of caution, evidence, and justice—not show trials.

    “I work at the United States Department of Justice, not the United States Department of Prosecutions.” (73:15 – Hameet Dhillon)

    • On her responsibilities:

    “I'm a prosecutor. I'm the top hate crime prosecutor in the country. And so we look at that every day.” (73:59 – Hameet Dhillon)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the DOJ Exodus:

  “I didn’t fire anybody. I just told them they had to do their job differently. They self-deported, with a nice golden parachute.” (05:55 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On the “Deep State”

  “It was Obama's third term. Yeah. Now with some personal axes to grind ... the Biden family business had to keep running.” (19:11 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On Free Speech:

  “The First Amendment is sacred to me.” (21:36 – Hameet Dhillon) “There's no free speech in Canada. Americans just like that everywhere where English is spoken, speech is free. Not so.” (22:14 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On Hate Crimes Enforcement:

  “Everybody—white people have rights, men have rights, everybody has rights in this country. Christians. … not just some Americans.” (37:23–38:21 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On Caregiving and Loss:

  “It was a privilege. My dad was also terminally ill at the same time ... our families closer together … that's why faith, I think, is very important actually, because it equips you with some longitudinal perspective …” (64:15–66:28 – Hameet Dhillon)

• On DOJ Ethics:

  “I work at the United States Department of Justice, not the United States Department of Prosecutions.” (73:15 – Hameet Dhillon)

Key Timestamps for Important Topics

• DOJ shake-up, staff exodus: 00:46–05:55
• Shortage of conservative lawyers: 06:59–10:01
• Personal sacrifice for public service: 10:01–12:38
• Weaponization of DOJ & “Obama’s third term”: 13:30–19:33
• Targeting lawyers, Project Veritas, privilege: 20:09–27:23
• On AI/Wikipedia/Tech censorship: 32:35–35:36
• Shift in hate crime enforcement: 35:36–41:56
• Dhillon’s immigrant background & resilience: 41:56–48:31
• Conservative legal movement, Damore/Andy Ngo: 53:05–58:29
• Personal loss, caregiving: 59:03–66:28
• Filibuster and partisan warfare: 69:18–72:08
• Ethos of the DOJ under Dhillon: 72:08–74:23

Themes and Tone

The discussion is direct, combative, and unvarnished, with both guest and host expressing unapologetic conservative views and a sense of mission. Dhillon is forthright about institutional battles, personal sacrifice, and the challenges of restoring trust and fairness in the DOJ. The tone is often personal, sometimes darkly humorous, and bracingly honest about the stakes in American public life.

For listeners interested in the intersection of law, politics, civil rights, and institutional reform—especially from a conservative perspective—this episode offers not only backstage views but deeply personal insights into the motivations and convictions driving change at the highest levels of DOJ.