Pod Force One – Episode Summary

Podcast: Pod Force One
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Guest: Bob Costello (Former Federal Prosecutor, Attorney for Rudy Giuliani)
Episode: "Bob Costello: FBI spied on Rudy Giuliani as we vetted the Hunter Biden laptop"
Date: January 21, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Miranda Devine sits down with Bob Costello to chronicle the inside story of the Hunter Biden laptop saga and the subsequent FBI investigation into Rudy Giuliani. The discussion covers major incidents of alleged political lawfare, surveillance, and institutional bias, as told from Costello’s firsthand involvement as an attorney for key political figures, including Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Hunter Biden Laptop Saga

How Bob Costello Got Involved

• Costello initially became involved after receiving threatening and harassing messages when his contact information was leaked by "a certain commentator on TV." He surmised Giuliani’s office must receive even more, so volunteered to screen emails sent to Giuliani’s office (01:13).
  • "You never know when you're going to find a pearl in an oyster." – Bob Costello (01:54)
• Discovered a well-written email from John Paul Mac Isaac, the Delaware computer shop owner, alerting them to Hunter Biden’s abandoned laptops (02:49).

Mac Isaac’s Actions

• Mac Isaac saw alarming contents (ties to Ukraine, China, Burisma) and, facing no action from local or national politicians, initially tried to alert the FBI through his father in New Mexico. They ignored him until Delaware agents retrieved the laptop under subpoena (04:45-08:27).
• When agents seized the laptop, the FBI failed to inquire if Mac Isaac had made other copies (09:35).

FBI’s Handling and Alleged Threat

• Mac Isaac reported the FBI's strange behavior, including an agent saying, “‘We’ve found in our experience that people who keep their mouths shut never get bothered.’” – Bob Costello paraphrasing Mac Isaac’s account (11:06).

Lack of FBI Transparency

• Despite soon verifying the laptop’s authenticity, the FBI made no public effort to correct media and intelligence officials who claimed it was Russian disinformation (09:35–10:58).

2. Covert Surveillance of Giuliani and Costello

FBI Warrant and Electronic Surveillance

• Costello and Giuliani only discovered after Giuliani's apartment and office were raided that he had been subject to a prior covert search warrant on his iCloud dating back to 2018 or 2019 (12:07).
• This allowed the FBI access to communications involving the laptop and planned media releases, and, according to Devine, likely prompted pre-election social media warnings about "Russian disinformation" (13:24–15:27).

"We were totally unaware of that... I was also under the naive impression that everyone in DOJ and the FBI was on the up and up and would treat us fairly. That turned out not to be the case." – Bob Costello (12:24)

Aftermath and Consequence

• Giuliani avoided indictment despite multiple search warrants, but the cost was financial ruin and reputational damage due to the publicized raids (17:15–19:21).
• Costello believes the intent was never prosecution:
  • "All they have to do is say that you're under investigation and thereby tarnish your reputation and cost you a fortune in legal fees... That's what they're trying to do." – Bob Costello (18:13)

FBI Agents' Reluctance During Giuliani's Raid

• Agents refused to seize the Hunter Biden hard drives, treating them as “radioactive,” further indicating knowledge of their authenticity (19:34–21:23).

3. Wider Lawfare and Political Targeting

Suppression and Discrediting Efforts

• Discussions about the 51 former intelligence officials’ letter and aggressive misinformation campaigns (21:23). Devine: "Russian disinformation was enough to smear anybody involved...and make everybody else afraid to touch it.” (22:51)

Costello’s Legal Representation and DOJ Tactics

• Costello himself became subject to law enforcement targeting while representing Steve Bannon; prosecutors secretly subpoenaed his personal and office phone records (24:34).
  • "It is absolutely unheard of to go after a lawyer. It never entered into my mind that this could have possibly occurred." – Bob Costello (24:35)
• This tactic was later replicated in Jack Smith’s investigation into Republican figures (27:43–28:43).

4. The Michael Cohen/Trump Prosecution

Costello’s Role & Judicial Bias

• Costello explains his background in representing Michael Cohen, who he accuses of fabricating stories of witness tampering (29:57–34:19).
• Despite extensive email and text evidence exonerating Trump, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg’s team allegedly ignored exculpatory evidence and the judge restricted testimony in court, allegedly sabotaging Costello’s credibility (38:38–41:24).
  • Costello was accused of "giving side eye" and “staring down the judge,” resulting in the courtroom being cleared (39:44).

5. The Georgia Case and Defamation Lawsuit

Rudy Giuliani’s Legal Woes Continue

• Discusses the multi-million-dollar defamation case brought against Giuliani by Georgia election workers, represented pro bono by Michael Gottlieb – a lawyer with historic ties to Hunter Biden and Burisma (43:45–45:52).
  • "You think that's a coincidence that Michael Gottlieb, who was a partner...in charge of the Burisma business, suddenly becomes partner...against Rudy Giuliani...?" – Bob Costello (45:22)
• A jury awarded $148 million, but Costello claims it was settled for less than $3 million (49:13).

Fulton County Grand Jury Incident

• Describes surreal experience where Fani Willis, Georgia DA, praised Giuliani as "America's greatest crime fighter" after subpoenaing him, only to later indict him (46:51–48:49).

6. Informant Retaliation: The Alexander Smirnov Case

• Alexander Smirnov, a longtime, well-compensated FBI confidential human source, claimed two Bidens received $5 million each from Burisma officials. Instead of investigating, DOJ charged him with lying (51:09–53:26).
  • Costello notes that Smirnov was threatened into a plea deal to protect his family, and the government’s actions both endangered him and disregarded corroborating witnesses (53:04–55:32).
  • "I think he's innocent based upon other witnesses that I've spoken to..." – Bob Costello (55:04)

7. Failures of the DOJ and Prosecutorial Bias

• Despite possessing the laptop in 2019, the Delaware DOJ office failed to publicly authenticate it or address misinformation, and instead helped prosecute informants like Smirnov (57:19).
  • Devine and Costello allege systemic weaponization of investigatory and prosecutorial power for political ends (58:19–59:19).

8. Reflections on Justice and Political Bias in Prosecution

• Costello expresses disappointment at the transformation of the Southern District of New York and professionalism in prosecution (59:19).
  • Reveals the attorney investigating Giuliani is now representing James Comey, highlighting conflicts and "the revolving door" (59:45).
• Costello is hopeful that new leadership, particularly Jeanine Pirro, will enforce accountability (61:18).

"Even 97% Democrats, when presented with the evidence, hopefully will do the right thing and honor their oath of office..." – Bob Costello (61:38)

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On FBI Threats:

  • “We’ve found in our experience that people who keep their mouths shut never get bothered.” (Paraphrased, 11:06)
  • "That was a hint to keep your mouth shut. Why? You'll have to ask them. But I think the rest of your reporting has shown why." – Bob Costello (11:06)

• On Lawfare:

  • “At the end of the day, if they destroy your reputation and remove your bank account, you’ve been zeroed out. You’ve been canceled. And that’s what they’re trying to do.” – Bob Costello (18:13)
  • "All they have to do is say that you're under investigation and thereby tarnish your reputation and cost you a fortune in legal fees." – Bob Costello (18:13)

• On DOJ Prosecutorial Overreach:

  • “You’re supposed to investigate crimes, not people... But they did it the opposite way because this was not about gaining evidence, this was intimidation and finding out who’s connected to who, who’s contacting who, and when are they doing it. That’s not the way America works.” – Bob Costello (28:43)

• On Courtroom Drama:

  • “After nine objections sustained with not a reason given, at which point the judge announces, clear the courtroom. And he claims that I was rolling my eyes at him and giving him side eye.” – Bob Costello (39:44)

• On Informants Targeted:

  • “They went to Alexander Smirnoff and claimed that he lied... They were going to implicate... his family members...which is a natural instinct. I think he’s innocent based on other witnesses.” – Bob Costello (55:04)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:13] – How Costello began vetting emails to Giuliani’s office, Discovery of Hunter Biden laptop
• [04:45] – FBI’s seizure of Hunter Biden's laptop, Mac Isaac’s legal concerns
• [11:06] – The FBI agent’s ‘keep your mouth shut’ remark
• [12:07] – FBI's iCloud warrant on Giuliani, surveillance implications before 2020 election
• [19:34] – Giuliani’s apartment raid: FBI refusing to seize Hunter Biden drives
• [24:34] – Costello’s own phone records seized by DOJ during Steve Bannon investigation
• [29:57] – Costello’s account of Michael Cohen, judicial bias in Trump NY case
• [38:38] – Judge accuses Costello of "side eye" in court, clears courtroom
• [43:45] – Georgia election defamation suit, Michael Gottlieb’s role, Burisma connections
• [51:09] – The fate of Alexander Smirnov and informant retaliation
• [57:19] – Delaware’s DOJ, Hunter Biden, and refusal to pursue laptop evidence
• [59:45] – Revolving door: former Giuliani prosecutor now represents James Comey
• [61:18] – Costello’s optimism for DOJ reform under Jeanine Pirro

Tone and Language

• The conversation is candid, detailed, and combative, with both Costello and Devine frequently expressing disbelief at the actions of law enforcement and the justice system.
• The tone often mixes legal analysis with incredulity and moral outrage; Costello is direct and matter-of-fact, while Devine provides narrative context and rhetorical emphasis.

Takeaway

This episode offers a granular, often behind-the-scenes account of political investigations in the Trump-Biden era, focusing on the Hunter Biden laptop, the targeting of Rudy Giuliani, and broader claims of institutional bias within the DOJ and FBI. Bob Costello’s retelling, supported by Miranda Devine’s context and documentation, paints a picture of coordinated political lawfare targeting Trump allies, with significant personal and professional costs to those involved.

The conversation highlights the interplay between media, law enforcement, and political power in shaping public narratives and the fate of high-profile figures in American politics.