Pod Force One: "Curing the Woke Mind Virus - Dr. Gad Saad on Avoiding Liberal Brain Rot"

Host: Miranda Devine, New York Post
Guest: Dr. Gad Saad, Scholar at the Declaration of Independence Center, University of Mississippi
Air Date: January 14, 2026

Episode Overview

Miranda Devine sits down with Dr. Gad Saad, evolutionary psychologist and author of Suicidal Empathy, to unpack the concept of "suicidal empathy," ideological mind viruses, and how these afflictions have come to dominate Western thought, policy, and discourse. Saad applies evolutionary psychology to analyze progressive social movements, the dysfunction of empathy in policy, the origins of social mind viruses, immunity strategies, and lessons from his own harrowing childhood in Lebanon. The two dig into gender debates, immigration, antisemitism, the psychology of political leaders, and individual responsibility in fighting cultural decay.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of "Suicidal Empathy" and Ideological Brain Parasites (00:44 - 05:31)

• Concept Genesis:
  Dr. Saad explains how his earlier work, The Parasitic Mind, drew analogies between biological brainworms and ideological brain parasites, concluding that both the cognitive (thinking) and emotional (feeling) systems can be "parasitized" by destructive ideas.

  “In order for me to completely hijack your capacity to think, I need to parasitize two systems. Your cognitive system...but also your emotional system, which is suicidal empathy. And so it’s a one-two punch.” (B, 01:22)

• Heart and Mind:
  Suicidal empathy relates to an emotional hijacking, while the parasitic mind is a cognitive affliction.

2. Trump Derangement Syndrome as a Mind Virus (02:04 - 07:58)

• The Role of Emotion vs. Cognition:
  Saad explains that opposition to Trump (TDS) is often rooted not in policy differences, but emotional responses triggered by aesthetic or identity injuries.

  “They never say, I detest Donald Trump because I don’t respect his monetary and fiscal policy. Right. It’s always driven by what I call an aesthetic injury.” (B, 03:52)

• Class and Identity:
  Trump’s persona invalidates the performative identity work of progressive elites, threatening their sense of worth.

• Gender Roles:
  The modern discomfort with "alpha male" traits is rooted in a progressive rejection of evolved gender roles, not purely psychological factors like "daddy issues."

3. Understanding "Suicidal Empathy" (09:32 - 20:31)

• Empathy Run Amok:
  Saad defines suicidal empathy as an adaptive capacity (empathy) run to maladaptive extremes, similar to overactive immune responses or psychiatric misfiring (e.g., OCD).

  “Dysregulated empathy, where you no longer target the empathy to the correct target—where you hyperactivate your empathy—that leads to suicidal empathy.” (B, 14:46)

• Empathy at a Distance:
  Empathy should be focused on close social circles, but mind viruses redirect it toward distant others (e.g., illegal immigrants), resulting in neglect of the proximate community.

• Civilizational Seppuku:
  The West engages in performative self-destruction, or “civilizational seppuku,” out of ascendant ideologies that frame Western civilization as uniquely shameful.

  “Suicidal empathy is a form of civilizational seppuku...I’m going to stand before you and commit civilizational seppuku.” (B, 16:22)

4. Mechanisms of the Mind Virus & Cultural Weakening (17:34 - 22:19)

• One-Two Punch:
  Ideological mind viruses first soften cognitive defenses (parasitic mind), then overtake emotional regulation (suicidal empathy).

• Cultural Relativism:
  Moral claims lose footing; cultural relativism makes “all that feels icky to me” and empathy is misplaced.

  “Once I have hammered you with enough indoctrination in universities...then it becomes very easy to allow the parasite, the emotional parasite of suicidal empathy, to take place.” (B, 19:54)

• Gender Confusion:
  The denial of biological realities is symptomatic of an advanced stage of mind infection.

5. Are Mind Viruses Deliberate? Origins and Spread (22:19 - 27:36)

• Not a Conspiracy:
  Saad doesn’t believe mind viruses started as a plot, but rather as noble reflexes (e.g., cultural relativism to prevent prejudice) that became weaponized.

• Susceptibility:
  The human mind has always been ripe for irrational belief (see Salem witch trials), but current mind viruses are unique, potent, and amplified by academia and social contagion.

• Acceleration vs. Incubation:
  Modern technology and socio-political crises (like COVID) have accelerated visibility, but these mind viruses took generations to fully embed into Western institutions.

6. Immunity and Resistance to Mind Viruses (27:36 - 33:34)

• Who Resists?
  Individual variation exists; attending liberal colleges increases susceptibility, though exceptions abound.

• Parenting Advice:
  Early, active parental involvement and questioning orthodoxy can help. Saad’s antidote: “Activate your inner honey badger”—stand up for first principles, question received wisdom, and exhibit moral courage.

  “If there are first principles that are worthy of defense, stand tall and be a honey badger.” (B, 31:51)

• The Dangers of Passive Conformity:
  Every silent acquiescence adds up to societal truth decay.

7. Personal Story: Growing Up a Jew in Lebanon (33:55 - 50:12)

• Surviving Persecution:
  Saad shares stories of being targeted for Jewish identity, his family’s escape from Lebanon, brushes with death, and the psychological toll of living under constant threat.

• Irreverence as Defense:
  Questioning authority (religious or secular) became an intrinsic part of his psyche.

• Optimism and Trauma:
  Despite a sunny disposition, exposure to violence solidified his resolve to warn the West of repeating similar mistakes:

  “You might not want to replicate that from which I escaped...someone has to be sufficiently courageous and altruistic to stand up and say, ‘heed the warning of those who have lived it.’” (B, 50:12)

8. Political Psychology: The Case of New York’s Mamdani (51:14 - 55:41)

• Fake Smiles and Predatory Leaders:
  Saad explains the scientific difference between real (Duchenne) and fake smiles, warning that in politics, a "venomous viper" may hide behind a pleasant façade.

• Why People Miss the Signs:
  Self-deception is evolutionarily functional: if you first convince yourself, it’s easier to convince others.

  “One of the ways I can ensure that [tells] are shut off is to first deceive myself...It’s the perfect way to then...deceive you.” (B, 54:24)

9. The Animal Instinct of Political Leaders (55:41 - 59:00)

• Trump’s “Animal Instincts”:
  Saad lauds Trump’s Machiavellian intelligence—his ability to adapt personas, read others for dealmaking, and succeed where ideologues fail:

  “Good business people are actually evolutionary psychologists...Donald Trump never took my evolutionary psychology courses, but guess what? He understands evolutionary psychology.” (B, 56:43)

10. The Persistence and Psychology of Antisemitism (59:00 - 65:44)

• Why Antisemitism Endures:
  Saad attributes the ancient, recurring hostility to psychological needs: the self-serving bias turns Jews into the ultimate scapegoat for individual and collective failures.

  “Imagine if I can offer you the ultimate external cause for all of your failures, both at the individual and at the collective level...” (B, 61:34)

• No Magic Vaccine:
  Bigotry is an ineradicable part of human psychology, but truth, courage, and public confrontation of lies remain necessary defenses.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On societal derangement:

  “TDS is a psychiatric disorder due to emotional processing rather than cognitive processing.” — Dr. Gad Saad (04:37)

• On performative Western self-destruction:

  “Suicidal empathy is a form of civilizational seppuku.” — Dr. Gad Saad (16:22)

• On how mind viruses take hold:

  “It takes the one-two punch: first I soften your cognitive defenses, and then let the bathing into suicidal empathy take over.” — Dr. Gad Saad (19:58)

• Parental strategy:

  “Activate your inner honey badger… stand tall and be a honey badger.” — Dr. Gad Saad (31:51)

• On optimism amidst chaos:

  “There’s always an apparent sort of twinkle in your eye and you can joke around and so on—well, that’s just because of my sunny disposition.” — Dr. Gad Saad (36:37)

• On the psychology of antisemitism:

  “If I can offer you the ultimate external cause for all of your failures...it becomes a very satisfying psychological need that I scratch by blaming it on the Jews.” — Dr. Gad Saad (64:05)

• On fake political smiles (re: Mamdani):

  “It is absolutely...astounds me that people could be so imbecilic and lobotomized as to take something that is so gargantuan in its non-Duchenne quality and argue, ‘he’s got such a beautiful smile.’ Nothing could be further from the truth.” — Dr. Gad Saad (52:57)

• On why he stays outspoken:

  “I might escape it, but your children and mine, Miranda, won't. Or their children won't. And so someone has to be sufficiently courageous and altruistic to stand up and say, heed the warning of those who have lived it.” — Dr. Gad Saad (50:12)

• The absurdity of scapegoating:

  “...there were several shark attacks on tourists in Sharm El Sheikh. The Egyptian government came out and said that those sharks were Jewish sharks.” — Dr. Gad Saad (63:09)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction and Book Concepts: 00:01 – 02:04
• On Emotional vs. Cognitive Mind Viruses: 02:04 – 07:58
• Immigration, The Pope, and Suicidal Empathy: 07:58 – 20:13
• Mechanics of Mind Virus Spread: 20:13 – 27:36
• Immunity, Parental Advice, and Activism: 27:36 – 33:34
• Growing Up Jewish in Lebanon: 33:55 – 50:12
• Political Psychology & Fake Smiles: 51:14 – 55:41
• Trump, Political Instincts, and Salesmanship: 55:41 – 59:00
• Antisemitism and Its Psychology: 59:00 – 65:44

Conclusion

Dr. Gad Saad delivers a vivid, sometimes harrowing, yet darkly humorous diagnosis of Western cultural malaise. He urges listeners to confront ideological pathogens with courage, reason, and a healthy dose of skepticism—what he calls our "inner honey badger." With sobering anecdotes, scientific insight, and trenchant analysis, Saad’s message is clear: truth and rationality require active, relentless defense against the twin afflictions of cognitive and emotional parasitism.