Deep State Stonewall: Ron Johnson Presses for Answers on Trump Shooting & 9/11 Mysteries

Summary

Pod Force One — Episode Summary

Podcast: Pod Force One
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Guest: Senator Ron Johnson (Wisconsin)
Episode: Deep State Stonewall: Ron Johnson Presses for Answers on Trump Shooting & 9/11 Mysteries
Date: December 3, 2025

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode features a candid and detailed conversation between host Miranda Devine and Senator Ron Johnson, diving into contentious subjects such as government transparency, the Hunter Biden investigation, the politicization of federal agencies, the Trump assassination attempt, ongoing 9/11 mysteries, and problems surrounding COVID-19 vaccine policies. Johnson shares insider perspectives on political stonewalling, "deep state" resistance, whistleblowers, and his commitment to accountability—despite personal and professional obstacles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hunter Biden Investigation and Media Complicity

• Senate Probe Origins

  • Johnson describes his reluctance to become an investigator, but as then-Chairman of Homeland Security, he felt duty-bound to investigate high-profile cases, including Hillary Clinton's emails and later, Hunter Biden's Ukraine dealings.
  • [02:12] "I didn't come to the Senate to investigate... But through serendipity, I became Chairman of Homeland Security..." — Ron Johnson

• Media and Political Pushback

  • Both parties and the media attacked the investigation, branding it “Russian disinformation.” Democrats set the narrative, which major outlets amplified.
  • [01:53] "They literally called it Russian disinformation, accused us of soliciting and disseminating Russian disinformation." — Ron Johnson

• Subpoena Roadblocks and Internal GOP Resistance

  • Not all Republicans backed the probe; Senator Mitt Romney and others accused Johnson of a "witch hunt" and refused support for crucial subpoenas.
  • [08:22] "Senator Romney accused me of misusing committee funds for this political witch hunt." — Ron Johnson

• The Laptop Handover

  • Johnson discusses receiving Hunter Biden’s laptop offer from repairman John Paul Mac Isaac but not accepting it directly to avoid potential legal entanglements, instead notifying the FBI.
  • [11:13] "He [Mac Isaac] contacted our offices. He wanted to turn that computer over to us." — Ron Johnson

2. FBI Surveillance and Political Weaponization

• FBI Review of Congressional Phone Records

  • Johnson details how the FBI obtained call records of eight senators and a House GOP member post-January 6, allegedly “legally,” but in Johnson's view, this “should shock every American.”
  • [13:54] "The fact that they rounded up phone records... it should shock every American." — Ron Johnson

• Politicized Law Enforcement

  • He points to the Russian collusion investigation, calling the Steele dossier a deliberate “dirty trick” and implicating Obama, Biden, CIA, and FBI leaders in perpetuating false narratives.
  • [17:33] "These people have done more damage to our body politic... and it continues." — Ron Johnson

3. The Attempted Assassination of Donald Trump

• Lack of Transparency on Thomas Crooks

  • Johnson expresses frustration that, over a year later, little is known about Thomas Crooks—the would-be assassin—including his motives, social media, and why he was cremated without autopsy.
  • [20:59] "Here we are a year later, I haven't heard a peep... Why hasn't America unlocked this information?" — Ron Johnson

• Deep State Obstacles

  • Johnson describes bureaucratic inertia hampering congressional oversight—even under a Trump administration—and the persistence of partisan civil servants.
  • [22:40] "It's a pervasive deep state. It's a really deep, deep state... It's populated by partisan leftists." — Ron Johnson

• FBI & DOJ Stonewalling

  • The Senator says he still hasn't obtained vital information, as requests are slow-walked, documents heavily redacted, and agencies overwhelmed post-Biden administration.
  • [25:36] "They're playing the same old games. They're slow walking; same thing Bobby Kennedy went through at HHS..." — Ron Johnson

4. 9/11 Mysteries & Building 7

• Reopening Questions About WTC 7

  • Johnson was drawn into the 9/11 issue after meeting with victim-family groups; he emphasizes that many legitimate questions—especially about WTC 7’s collapse—remain suppressed and unanswered.
  • [29:39] "There's something that's not been explained. But we're also getting creamed in the comments section: how could you guys not know about this?" — Ron Johnson

• Calls for a New Nonpartisan Investigation

  • He supports appointing a commission of physicists and engineers—not politicians—to review the evidence and answer remaining scientific and forensic questions.
  • [33:01] "Bring in physicists and structural engineers... You don't need politicians..." — Ron Johnson

5. COVID-19 Vaccine Controversies

• Early Skepticism and Data Concerns

  • Johnson was critical of the public health response, suppression of early treatments, and the rapid rollout of mRNA vaccines. Citing Dr. Michael Yeaden (ex-Pfizer), he underscores risks overlooked or denied by officials.
  • [36:27] "There’s a long list of things we don’t put in injectables because they’re toxic to the body... My colleagues are designing a genetic therapy..." — Ron Johnson

• Vaccine Injury and Lack of Accountability

  • He says vaccine injuries are ignored, that the VAERS system is heavily underreporting, and that the definition of “vaccine” was misappropriated to include gene therapies.
  • [39:00] "No, it was a... It's gene therapy. A vaccine is either attenuated virus or killed virus... They lied to us." — Ron Johnson

• Congress, Medical Establishment, and Whistleblower Suppression

  • Johnson argues the system punishes dissent, driving both journalists and scientists into silence or exile.
  • [42:08] "Because anybody that questions the dogma... they destroy. I mean, they utterly... They destroyed him. He ended up dying in an insane asylum." — Ron Johnson

6. Personal Ethos & Political Motivation

• Why Johnson Perseveres

  • He attributes his investigative tenacity to his business background, faith, and Midwest values, not a desire to build a political career.
  • [44:50] "I'm not a politician. I'm a citizen legislator. I didn't do this until I was 55 years old. Probably the most unique quality is I'd rather be home." — Ron Johnson

• Partnership with Senator Grassley

  • Johnson credits effective oversight to strong, committed staff and collaboration, not typical in D.C.'s legislative-focused workforce.
  • [48:57] "It's good staff work. They always say, your investigation. I always go, no, your investigation..." — Ron Johnson

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On “Russian Disinfo” Attacks
  [01:53] "They didn’t just downplay—it was way more than just not reporting on it—they literally called it Russian disinformation." — Ron Johnson

• On Congressional Subpoenas
  [08:38] "I could not have gotten a subpoena on the Bidens. They blew up our friendly subpoena to Andrei Telushenko, who wanted to willingly turn over records..." — Ron Johnson

• On Deep State Entrenchment
  [22:40] "It's a pervasive deep state... It's populated primarily by partisan leftists... So there's a pretty big void in a lot of these agencies in terms of loyal personnel." — Ron Johnson

• On 9/11 Suppression
  [30:12] "It’s because it’s been suppressed. That in and of itself is suspicious. Most of America never heard of World Trade Center 7..." — Ron Johnson

• On COVID Vaccine Policy
  [39:00] "No, it was a... it's gene therapy. A vaccine is either attenuated virus or killed virus. They knew it would never stay in the arm and they lied to us." — Ron Johnson

• On Staff and Investigative Work
  [48:57] "It’s good staff work. They always say, your investigation. I always go, no, your investigation." — Ron Johnson

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | | --------- | -------------------------------------------------------- | | 00:19 | Miranda admires Johnson’s early Hunter Biden work | | 01:53 | Media and politicians characterizing the probe as disinfo | | 06:24 | FBI obtained Hunter’s laptop—authentication details | | 08:22 | Romney & other GOP resistance to subpoenas | | 13:54 | FBI obtaining phone records from senators | | 20:55 | Frustration with lack of info on Thomas Crooks/Trump shot | | 27:14 | Discussion around 9/11 and WTC 7 mysteries | | 35:21 | Early skepticism about mRNA vaccines | | 39:00 | Difference between vaccines and gene therapy | | 44:50 | Johnson on not being a 'career politician' |

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Tone and Language

Throughout the episode, Miranda Devine and Ron Johnson maintain a tone mixing incredulity, urgency, and Midwestern frankness. Johnson is detailed, reflective, and occasionally exasperated but steadfast in his commitment to uncovering uncomfortable truths and pushing past institutional resistance.

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Conclusion

Senator Ron Johnson gives an unflinching account of his experiences challenging the establishment on politically-sensitive investigations, lamenting the persistence of politicized bureaucracies and a culture of suppression—whether it's the media, intelligence agencies, or public health officials. He argues that progress depends on transparency, whistleblowers, and citizen-legislators unafraid to be "mosquitoes in a nudist colony" (21:25). Johnson's grounded, methodical approach, shaped by his business and Midwest roots, sets him apart as an outsider committed to uncomfortable but necessary oversight in a "swamp" resistant to change.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to the Pod Force One podcast. I'm Miranda Devine and today we are with Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. Senator Ron Johnson, thank you so much for joining Pod Force One.

[B]

Welcome to Washington D.C. this alternate universe.

[A]

Yes it is, isn't it? The swamp.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I have admired you for a long time and I first got to know your work early on with the Hunter Biden investigation that you did. And I think if I hadn't read your report and marveled at how it had been ignored and kind of downplayed by the New York Times, etc. And you know, I was kind of only been here a year and I couldn't understand why such a bombshell story about the family of one of the candidates could be ignored. But now, of course, we're older and wiser and we know. But you must look back at your Hunter Biden investigations and realize now that you were so on top of it. You were right, you were prescient and yet you were sort of powerless to do anything to stop Joe Biden from becoming president.

[B]

So you, you understated the, the complicity of the media when you said they downplayed our report.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They called it Russian disinformation. Yeah, you know, that's because our ranking members, Democratic ranking members, Ron Wyden with Senator Grassley and Gary Peters with, you know, in my committee, they, they wrote a report basically saying our, our investigation was Russian disinformation. So I mean, they set the tone. The media, as they always do, the communication arm of the Democrat party, they picked up those exact same talking points. So yeah, it was way more than just downplaying or not reporting on it. They literally called it Russian disinformation, accused us of soliciting and disseminating Russian disinformation.

[A]

And this was an obstruction and a claim that was made against you and Senator Grassley all the way through your, I guess, year long investigation. Just bring us back to the very beginning and why you actually started investigating Hunter Biden's business in Ukraine.

[B]

I didn't come to the Senate to investigate. I came here because, well, I knew Obamacare wouldn't work. And it's not. I mean, that's the reason premiums are skyrocketing because of faulty design of Obamacare, but also because we were mortgage our children's Future. We were $14 trillion in debt at that point, that point in time. Now we're over 38 trillion. So that's why I came here. But through serendipity, I became Chairman of Homeland Security pretty, pretty early in my Senate career, and that is the Government Oversight Committee for the Senate. It used to be called just Governmental affairs and that's what it primarily did. Then with 9 11, it got Homeland Security tacked onto it as well. So you have the responsibility as chairman to look at government plus federal records is within the committee's limited legislative jurisdiction. So when the Hillary Clinton email scandal broke, not only is it my responsibility to investigate corruption within government, but specifically this had to do with federal records and the law she probably broke in terms of the Federal Record Act. So that began my investigatory career. It was my staff that uncovered the editing done to the James Comey Exoneration Memo where he changed things from grossly negligent to extremely careless to absolve her of any kind of criminal liability. Then that exact same cast of characters. It's very interesting, I was telling you earlier in Picture In My Head, the Charlie Brown Christmas special where all the characters go around the one beautifully decorated tree and take all those ornaments over something else. And the same cast characters in the FBI did the same thing. They went from exonering Hillary Clinton to the Russian collusion hoax, the Mueller investigation. It flowed all the way through and people like Brennan and Clapper were involved in that as well.

[A]

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[B]

Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, you know, all those folks.

[A]

And were they the same cast of characters that were covering up for Joe Biden in the Hunter Biden saga?

[B]

Probably. I mean, that gets a little bit murkier. They had the, the foreign influence task force. And again, you know, some of these. This is quite a few years ago, so I forget all the details, but, you know, the FBI obviously got Hunter Biden's laptop in December of 2019.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they could authenticate it. They knew it was real within a week. So fast forward. And we had that foreign influence task force come with an unsolicited briefing to both Senator Grassley and I separately. I'm walking back from a vote and my staff is coming. Well, Senator, you got a briefing. The FBI. What are you talking about?

[A]

When was that?

[B]

This was August, I think. August 6th of 2020.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So we get down in the skiff for this classified briefing, and they're probably about six or seven individuals, and they start telling us things that I didn't need to. I, I already knew these things. Okay. So. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

Well, I mean, you know, you got to be careful about what, what you hear out of Russia, out of, you know, Ukraine. And, you know, they're spread disinformation. And, And I think maybe in that briefing they might have talked about what they were also talking about publicly, that, you know, you just might have disinformation about the present son or, you know. Right. And you know, again, I, I just got ticked off. I mean, I was just actually quite livid. I said, okay. Now, who asked you to brief us? You're not telling me anything. I don't know. You're not telling me anything. I need to know. Do you have new intelligence? So you've asked this briefing, what new information do you have? I mean, what's your sources for this? Well, we can't tell you that. Then when I asked them, who instruct you to brief us? It's kind of up and down the line, and that's interagency process. That's all we've ever gotten.

[A]

So you think that was an ambush.

[B]

By the FBI and it absolutely was. It was meant to. To throw us off the track. And did it if we know.

[A]

Except weren't there people in your own Republicans, in your own committee that then refused to sign off on subpoenas that you needed?

[B]

Sure. I mean that, that, that, I mean is all the news coverage. It was what our ranking members were doing where, yeah, we had, I think an open committee. I think it was. Senator Romney accused me of misusing committee funds for this political witch hunt.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not sure those are the words you use, but that's basically what it's implying. So yeah, there were, you know, I could not, I could not have gotten a subpoena on the Bidens. As a matter of fact, they blew up our friendly subpoena to Andrei Telushenko who wanted to willingly turn over records with Blue Star strategy. Again, he was under non disclosure agreement, an NDA. So he couldn't do it willingly. He needed a subpoena.

[A]

So this is a Ukrainian who had worked for Blue Start Strategies, the lobbying firm which was helping Hunter Biden in Ukraine.

[B]

Yeah, you're aware of that. I know you're not, you know, everybody else is up to speed on that thing. But no, this is this kind of the corrupt group that was kind of working to cover all this up. But, but first of all, to actually get Hunter Biden and his connection with Barisma influenced in the Biden administration, in the Obama administration. First.

[A]

Before that, did you know that Mitt Romney was also participated in what was called a cake sale to, to try and get into Ukraine alongside Devon Archer? Devon Archer told me that. Did you know that?

[B]

I was not aware of that. I knew one of his staff members, Kofer Black was on the, you know, the board burisma with. Yeah, so you know, former CIA guy. Exactly what those interconnections are. I mean, I certainly understand why, you know, Senator Romney maybe wouldn't want me to find out what all happened in Ukraine within our federal government and U.S. federal officials or, you know, U.S. persons.

[A]

So do you think that if you hadn't been hobbled, your investigation had not been hobbled, you might have been able to expose more about Joe Biden's involvement in the family influence peddling scheme and thus blow up his candidacy?

[B]

Again, my purpose really wasn't that political. It was just uncovering the truth. You know, when I see, you know, all kinds of suspicious activity, it just triggers something in me that I want to uncover it. And I think the public certainly had a right to know when they're potentially looking at voting for somebody like Joe Biden, who I felt was a thoroughly corrupt individual. So it Obviously wasn't helpful. You know, all the interference, all the news stories accusing us of, of soliciting to send me Russian disinformation. But it made us all that more careful. Careful to the point when, you know, shortly before we issued our report, we were offered Hunter Biden's computer.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Okay. By Mac Isaac. Okay. He contacted our offices. He wanted to turn that computer over to us.

[A]

So John Paul Mac Isaac is the laptop repair shop owner in Delaware who Hunter Biden abandoned his laptop and of.

[B]

Course he made, I think copies of the DIS drive. So he wanted to turn us away. Right. And you got the one that was going to be given to us, but we couldn't accept.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It did sound like a suspicious story. I mean, it was something you had to be careful of. You had to properly vet it, you had to do your due diligence on it. So, you know, we thought it could have been stolen property. You know, I had no idea. So, you know, we had to, you know, kind of follow, you know, our rules of integrity. And so what did we do? We reached out to the FBI. So we've been offered this computer. Again, I didn't know anything about the computer before that. You know, FBI obviously did, which is why they briefed us in August of 2020.

[A]

So is that around August of 2020 you were given, you were.

[B]

No, this was, this was probably the tail end of September. Right. Kind of right before we were issuing our report, if memory serves.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so, you know, we went to the FBI and they gave us the run around for weeks. Yeah. So, I mean, the guy who, you know, could answer these questions, he's on vacation for two weeks, you know, and to the point where Macaiser got impatient and turned it over to, I think, Bob Costello.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the New York Post.

[A]

Yeah. Well, he gave it to, by the.

[B]

Way, which was probably a good thing because we would have had to take weeks, maybe months to authenticate it. Yeah. Just because we just have. Again, not that you don't have a very high standard of cooperation, but. No, of course, you saw the computer, you knew Israel. Yeah. That there was no way that that was going to be something. Yeah. But we still would have had to go through all the steps to authenticate it. Yeah. The things that the FBI probably already did in December 19th, they weren't going to tell us.

[A]

No, no. Outrageous. And so now looking back to all the new revelations that came out through James Comers Committee, through whistleblowers, do you look back now and think that Joe Biden is even Worse than you imagined?

[B]

No, I thought it was pretty bad. None of this has come as a surprise to me. I mean, I look at this stuff, I go, duh, rise, you know, saying, okay, it's finally coming out, and that's good. I think history needs to record these things. Yes, but no, it shocks us. It should shock us, but it doesn't surprise me. None of this surprises me. I mean, the fact that they. They rounded up phone records, you know, including mine, from eight U.S. senators and a House member, it should shock every American. I mean, the violation of the separation powers, but doesn't surprise me.

[A]

Yeah, let's talk about that. So we now know that the FBI, Senator Grassley, found this out. The FBI was spying on you and seven of your Senate colleagues and also a House GOP member.

[B]

Spying may be a little strong. Me. What they did is they in some way, shape or form. They say they did it all above, you know, all legally above board. They were able to obtain our phone records from January 4th through January 7th, 2021. That's still spying. Well, whatever you want to call, but, you know, certainly they, they were snatching up those records. To do what with them? I still don't know. I still don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Jack Smith.

[B]

I don't. I don't want the. I don't know what the predicate is. They sent us the. That Jack Smith's attorney sent a letter to Senator Grassley, which you. I've obviously seen, which they lay out. This is the reason they're talking about some of the individuals, you know, apparently President talked to him on January 6, whatever, you know, so that's the rationale. They're giving Senator Grassley for that. I still don't. Yeah, I can certainly assume that the reason they would try and snatch up my records is because, you know, we had somebody contact me about turning over some records to Vice President Biden and, you know, mine in January six knew all about it. They got.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

So we were, you know, the ultimate slave electors. Yeah. And that was somebody from Congressman Mike Kelly's office contacted, you know, my chief of staff to give them these ultimate slave electors. But I had been called by a senator or by President Trump's attorney in Wisconsin, Judge Troopas. Can you get something to the President, to the Vice President? Let me check. Literally, our Office's involvement was 70 minutes long. A few text messages.

[A]

So Vice President Pence.

[B]

Pence.

[A]

Pence. Not by.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Vice President Pence on January 6th.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So again, all this was thoroughly vetted by the, by the, I would say corrupt January six committee in the House. They had all these records. I mean, there was nothing else to learn. Now, I did, you know, I did absolutely nothing wrong. My involvement lasted a couple of seconds, literally seconds with a few text messages and asking my chief staff check into it. So, so they all knew about that. So I suppose that'd be the predicate for trying to snatch up my phone records. But what they did with them, we don't know. I mean, what kind of daisy chain investigation resulted from, you know, that metadata from nine members of Congress?

[A]

It's pretty outrageous if you're talking about politicization of the FBI.

[B]

Well, it's, it's one of the, the minor outrageous acts they've done. The worst is what they did with the whole Russian collusion.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The fact that that was a, you know, Steele dossier was a dirty trick by the Hillary Clinton campaign. They all knew it. Obama knew it. Biden knew it. Brennan knew it. Clapping they all knew it. And yet they spun that Steele dossier into giving a briefing to Trump so they could leak to the media, included in the intelligence assessment, you know, set up the Mueller investigation, which lasted, you know, a couple of years and cost 30, $40 million. Again, this is all about foreign influence on the U.S. political system. Right. I mean, Russia and China could only dream of having a fraction of the impact on our electoral process in an interfering election than what? Yeah, and destruction than what Obama, Biden, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe struck. These people have done more damage to our body politic here, and it continues.

[A]

And do you think anything will come of it? Do you think that we are going to be able to bring them to, to account for what they did?

[B]

And I'm not a prosecutor, so I don't know exactly what crimes could be assessed these individuals, but I don't think there's any penalty that would even come close to rising to make compensation for the incalculable damage they've done to our democracy. These people are definitely criminals. They are bad people. And again, our country is still in.

[A]

Political turmoil and China, and I mean Russia as well, the Russia, Ukraine war. I often wonder about how, what kind of an impact the Russia hoax had on the sort of bad relations between Russia and the United States.

[B]

Oh, I have a pretty good feeling. Yeah. I was the only member of Congress who went to Zelensky's inauguration, right. And I came back and the delegation that went with me, they wanted to have a meeting with President Trump and the main thing we wanted to do is try and convince President Trump to meet with President Zelensky. I, you know, again, President Trump's got a great sense of humor. I mean, here's a former comedian. Yeah. You know, I had a personal, personal basis, you know, like President Zelensky. And so, you know my point. And I'm the only guy in that meeting that didn't work for President Trump. So I was willing to, I was willing to push back when he was just talking about how corrupt Ukraine is. And I just turned, trying to encourage him, you know, just meet. Yeah, with President Solutions. Just meet with them and just meet with him. You will hit it off. You're both basically political neophytes being elected to high office, you know, presidencies of two countries surrounded by reptiles. Exactly. You know, people trying to undermine your administration from the get go. You have a lot in common. Yeah, he didn't take me up on that. And the result was his impeachment, quite honestly. So, no, I mean, no, these things have real world consequences.

[C]

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[A]

Let's go on to the Thomas Crooks who was the man who tried to assassinate Donald Trump, killed Corey Comperatore in Butler, Pennsylvania last year. I interviewed President Trump in February of this year and he said at the time he ordered someone, he said, get the Secret Service to tell me everything about Thomas Crooks. I deserve to know. I am entitled to know. He still doesn't know. The country still doesn't know anything about this 20 year old whose social media was scrubbed, who seemed to manage to get a drone overhead beforehand and who was cremated without an autopsy. What is going on there? And why did you have to subpoena Kash Patel's FBI in July to get any information?

[B]

It dawned on me, I mean, the older you get, the faster time flies, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all of a sudden we're coming up on the one year anniversary of the assassination attempt and you start realizing, well, we haven't got any of this information. Again, my assumption was, and it's always dangerous to assume. Yes, my assumption was, well, President Trump takes office, you know, he's obviously interested in this. He's going to make sure that his FBI director and people around him are going to get to the bottom of this. Yeah, I don't like duplicating effort.

[A]

No.

[B]

If James Comer's doing something in the house, I mean, let them do it. Okay. I've got, I've always described myself as a mosquito in a nudist colony. It's a target rich environment. So I got plenty of things to keep me busy, let other people investigate this. But all of a sudden I realized, I mean, here we are a year later, I haven't heard a peep out of this. We still don't know about, you know, what did his social media accounts say? I mean, why haven't we unlocked this information? Why doesn't America know more about it? Because again, there's some odd things. Yeah. You know him appearing in commercials for. Was it blackrock? And, you know, just like the other, you know, potential assassin down in Palm Beach. Like, I mean, it's just bizarre stuff. I mean, explain this to us.

[A]

And didn't he also practice guns at the, the range that federal officials were at?

[B]

Yeah. So there's, there's information we want to get from, you know, that, that gun, gun range, gun range. There's just a host of information. It took us a long time. I think we're finally starting to get some of the information from the Pennsylvania State Police.

[A]

But why did you have to subpoena the FBI? What, Cash Patel doesn't seem like he's really on top of things. Or has he been captured by the deep state?

[B]

I think views. Again, my subpoenas to this administration, our friendly subpoena is just kind of prompt action. Part of the problem. I'm highly sympathetic with this, whether it's Bobby Kennedy and HHS or Pam Bondi or Cash Patel. I mean, it is a deep state. It's a pervasive deep state. It's a really deep, deep state. Okay. And it's populated primarily by partisan leftists. So President Trump comes into office, the partisan actors at the top, they leave. Okay. You know, even the ones that didn't have to leave the political point. I mean, the ones at the top of the organization, they're not going to serve Trump administration, so they voluntarily quit. Some of those partisans were fired, but others burrow in. So there's a pretty big void in a lot of these agencies in terms of loyal personnel and trying to hire people. I mentioned Judge Troupas. So here's a person of incredible integrity, probably the absolute best Attorney Trump could have got in terms of election law, does something that Kennedy did. He makes sure that he has an alternate Slave elector. So that what happened to Al Gore doesn't happen if he's successful in his court case. There's no alternate slate of electors. You got. You don't have a leg to stand on. So you learn from Kennedy, you learn from Gore's experience. You have to have an alternate slate of electors. So Judge Troupas, Wisconsin attorney's general office issued an opinion. When I think the Wisconsin Election Commission said, was this proper? He said, yeah, there's nothing wrong with issuing an ultimate slave of electors. It was a proper legal procedure. And yet a couple years after that, now Josh Call, Wisconsin Attorney General, the same office, the attorney general is trying to imprison this honorable man for life.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I think he's already racked up probably about a million dollars in legal fees.

[A]

Because you'll never get back.

[B]

It's the process that's. Well, you know, there is, there is. There are funds Trump's talking about in his own case. There's a fund when you are wrongly persecuted by federal prosecutors in particular. And again, we're trying to get information of all the communication between Josh Call and the FBI Department of Justice under Biden. Haven't got that either. I don't think it's willing obstruction. I think it's just they're overwhelmed. They're trying to catch criminals now. We're trying to clean up the enormous mess left over by the, you know, the open border. So, I mean, there's so many enormous messes that Trump and his department heads are trying to clean up. Some of these are just lower. It may be a high priority to me or you, but they've got kind of bigger fish to fry.

[A]

But, I mean, you would think that congressional requests, I mean, I'm hearing also from, from other offices that they're getting back information from the FBI that's so heavily redacted, it's useless. So, I mean, that's just the same old FBI nothing again.

[B]

So you don't necessarily bring in your people that do those redactions. It's. That's kind of the career staff that does that. So they're playing the same old games. They're, they're slow walking, you know, same thing Bobby Kennedy went hhs, you know, radical transparency. It took him months to kind of break that log jam. Then finally, we got about a dump, about 8.1 million pages, which takes us a while. You know, I'd much rather have them go through the 8.1 pages and, you know, be able to detail exactly what we were looking for. Yeah. Rather than have Us do that, but we're having to do that, that sorting ourselves now.

[A]

So have you got anything on Crooks?

[B]

No, we are hoping. We're hoping the telecommunication companies, you know, work with us. But no, we haven't really uncovered things.

[A]

Right. So why is that? What I mean there are so many theories about Thomas Crooks, 20 years old, you know, did he act alone?

[B]

I can't answer that question.

[A]

Right. It's shocking that you can't answer that question.

[B]

Well, sorry, no, but I mean it's.

[A]

Shocking that we don't know. I mean, 18 months later.

[B]

No, I mean very early on, and I think this was a news outlet, might have been New York Post. I mean it did a GEO positioning search on Crooks phone and like, kind of like that family circus deals, you know, all over the place. You know, the FBI headquarters. It's like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What's pulling off here?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And my staff kind of cautions me about talking about that because we're not quite sure of the validity of that as well. But I mean, again, those are the kinds of questions.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That deserve answers. It's those kind of questions that go unanswered that just feed into conspiracy theories. Okay.

[A]

That's right. Well, while we're on that topic, I mean the World Trade center, the Tower 7, you've talked about it and I know you're trying to investigate it. There's so many odd things about that building. The fact that it fell down at all. What have you learned from that and what can you tell us about the mystery?

[B]

So this, I wanted to say this right away because you were giving me all this credit for providing information that you could use. You know, we rely on investigate investigatory reporters like yourself and John Solomon. I mean, first of all, first of all, you get whistleblowers that have confidence that their identity is not going to be blown. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're very good in my office, but not every office in Congress is.

[A]

No.

[B]

And so people are highly reluctant to come forward to a congressional office and provide information because they think they're. Your anonymity will be broken. So again, you've done fabulous work when it comes to these things. When it comes to 9 11. I got involved in that because Richard Blumenthal is chairman of PSI in the last Congress. You want to do investigation of the deal that PGA Tour is doing with Liv Golf on Saudi Arabia and pif. Yeah. Which I think that's private parties. We shouldn't even be putting our nose under that table.

[A]

He's just looking for dirt on track.

[B]

But because of that, all the 911 families came, came to me saying hey listen, look at this heavily redacted report from the FBI in terms of what we knew about Saudi involvement. Can you get this unredacted? So that began my involvement. Again, I'm from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, obviously saw 9 11, knew it changed the world. But again I didn't know anybody in the towers, it wasn't down the street from me and something. So I bought the narrative, you know, hook, line and sinker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All of a sudden you have people starting to feed your information and right now that's, I'm in a position where we're gathering information and you know, to your audience, if you got information we'll look at. Okay. We're going to take it all the grain of salt. Okay. Actually my staff's primary goal is get the information, debunk it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, literally. I mean it's like poke holes in it. Yeah. You know, because that's what we do. Because, because I don't want to, I don't want to be talking about anything that. Okay. But I mean there are so many legitimate questions here that I don't mind asking.

[A]

Like what.

[B]

And it, well, starts, it starts with Building 7. Yeah. I had never heard of it. First of all describing why is it so why is it so difficult to talk about these things? I mean why are these legitimate questions just quashed? You know, it's because there's something there. Okay. There's something that's, that has not been explained. But we're also, we're also, we're also getting creamed in the comments section is like how could you guys not know about this? Right. Again, I wasn't a 9 11.

[A]

Truth.

[B]

Yeah. But it's because it's been suppressed. Yes. And that in and of self is suspicious. It is. I mean like most of America had never heard of World Trade Center 7. No, we know the Twin Towers. But you mean another 40 foot tall building collapsed and a BBC reporter's on the air talking about how it collapsed, but it's still standing over her left shoulder. And you look at the video of it and you got, you know, have, have kind of one view. It sure looks like a controlled demolition. You've got somebody expert in controlled demolition saying, you know, interviewed years later going well it's controlled demolition. Right. No, that, that building collapsed on November or on September 11th. So again, there are so many unexplained.

[A]

People heard explosions, didn't they?

[B]

Oh yeah. I mean that was Graham McQueen before he died he was doggedly looking for every bit of evidence and he found something. 150 some documented recordings of first responders reporters that morning of 911 saying they heard explosions. And yet the 911 Commission, they never talk about it, right? This never talks about it. You know he had is, I think Barry Jennings is the gentleman's name, went up, is in Building 7 and already cleared out. Told him to get out of the building. Couldn't get out of there because the stairwell and you know between the sixth and eighth floor blown out.

[A]

So I mean it could be gas explosions or something from, from the flames. But what was the CIA, did they have an office in there?

[B]

I don't have the full list but there are many very interesting offices.

[A]

Federal government secrets, different things. So could they have just Enron?

[B]

I think a lot of their Enron records was in there. And that Tucker does a pretty good job of kind of explaining the Enron scandal kind of bookmarks. 9 11. So again, I'm no expert in this. I'm not. I, I can spout enough. All I know is these individuals who've been looking at this and again I'm, yeah, I'm doing it because the 911 families, the firefighters, these are people who've been doggedly pursuing this. They've been vilified, they've been dismissed for decades. They deserve the answers. They deserve not to have their questions just automatically dismissed. So again I would like, I know they're calling for President Trump to appoint a totally nonpartisan, non political commission. And as I've said, what ought to happen is bring in physicists and structural engineers. I mean just experts. You don't need politicians, you need people to look at this, all this information go. Is there a scientific explanation for this?

[A]

And so what would be the reason though that someone would want to use the COVID of the 911 disaster to blow it up?

[B]

Well it certainly got us involved in the Middle east in it.

[A]

Right. Are you saying the whole thing, not just Tower 7, you're saying the Twin Towers as well?

[B]

I mean the whole 911, I mean we all knew it changed the world and as a result it did. I mean the US went to war in Afghanistan, then Iraq. Talk about the hundreds of thousands of people who lost their lives. You know Americans lost thousands. You know those countries lost hundreds of thousands, thousands. So do you think that we can talk about that? I don't, I don't know. It certainly changed the world if, if Al Qaeda's goal was to get the US out of the Middle East. And that's, of course, what you always hear Osama bin wanted. This is an attack to convince America to leave. He blew that one. You know, that. That absolutely dedicated to get us in there.

[A]

But it did great damage to the United States as well.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, how many. How many thousands of people lost their lives? How many tens of thousands were grievously injured?

[A]

And the surveillance state.

[B]

Trillions of dollars. The surveillance state. Yep. So, which is also interesting, how quickly that Patriot act was, you know, signed into law.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're written and signed the law. I mean, that was. Somebody had that in their back pocket.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Dick Cheney, somebody.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean. And it's also been now used against Americans for political purposes by the Democrats, by Obama, et cetera.

[B]

They loved it. Nine members of Congress, I suppose.

[A]

Yes. They're all full circle. You've come in almost like Mr. Smith goes to Washington and you will open up investigations and look at things that others have dismissed. And I'm thinking, particularly you were very courageous during COVID when you had a lot of vaccine, injured people in. When no one else would talk about it, and through the COVID vaccine, and I think you've still kept in touch with them. What have you discovered about the COVID 19 MRNA? What's it called anyway, whatever it is?

[B]

Oh, MRNA.

[A]

MRNA vaccine.

[B]

Well, I knew it in 2020 before it ever got its emergency use authorization, because I was. First of all, nothing in our response to Covid made sense to me at all from the beginning. It's like, first of all, why don't we have an operation War speed on treatment? Let's treat this stuff right. Why are they sabotaging things like hydroxychloroquine, then finally ivermectin. None of this made sense. All the shutdowns and masking, all that, none of it made sense what's going on here. But because of that, I was in early contact with Dr. Michael Yeaden, who. Who worked for Pfizer for 30 years, retired as senior vice president R and D. His background's in toxicology. And so in those discussions, first of all, he was beside himself when he found out about this MRNA injection. Said Ron, there's a long list of things we don't put in injectables because they're toxic to the body. Here I'm finding my colleagues are actually going to design a genetic therapy that's going to turn the human cell into a manufacturing site for something that's toxic to it.

[A]

So spike protein.

[B]

Yeah. So when that happens, what is the Body's response, it attacks it. They knew it wouldn't stay in the arm. They had biodistribution studies. There's going to distribute all of the, all over the, of the body. And so it's going to attach itself to heart cells. And when the body attacks heart, that's inflammation, that's myocarditis. There was no way I was ever going to get that injection.

[A]

So you never got it?

[B]

No, there was no way I was going to. Now again, everybody's pushing it. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a medical researcher. Maybe Michael Eaton's wrong. So I was just very carefully monitoring, for example, various reports. And so very early on, you know, I'm already seeing thousands of deaths.

[A]

And that's self reporting to the government.

[B]

Right. You've had a vaccine injury and vastly underreports vaccine injuries because it's a pain. Doctors ignore it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's one, sorry, maybe 1%. So we're already up to a few thousand deaths on VAERS in April of 2021. And at that time, 46% of those deaths were occurring on the day of vaccination or within one or two days. I know VAERS doesn't prove causation, but man, that's correlation you got to look into. So I asked Francis Collins in a meeting with some other senators, are you watching vaers? I mean, does this concern you? I mean, I'm spotting those statistics. And he goes now, Sandra, we've identified six deaths associated with the J and J vaccine. That's it. You know, the other Destiny center people die, Ross, they just blew it off. And they continue to blow it off. And you know, we're at the state right now that everybody, almost everybody's in a state of denial. If you got the shot, you just want to move on. You don't want to think that there's things like turbo cancers or undetected myocarditis or, you know, that, that neurological issue you have, well, that's, you know, that's just again, people get, you know, autoimmune disease. So the medical establishment that pushed it, the federal health agencies that pushed it, members of Congress that cut videos like Steve Colbert, you know, get that shot.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, nobody wants to admit they're wrong.

[A]

No.

[B]

And so we're still in this, this bizarre situation where the injection injuries are still being denied.

[A]

How many people do you think were, were killed or died?

[B]

Well, I mean, Vayer shows, I think we're close closing in at 39,000 worldwide. But if that's let's say 10% are reported. You know, that's putting account in the hundreds of thousands and we know there are millions of adverse events, but again, all this is just being denied and covered up and you know, you've gotta.

[A]

And it wasn't a real vaccine.

[B]

No, it was a. It's gene therapy. A vaccine is either attenuated virus or killed virus. That by the way, which don't work very well, which is why they had to put something called adjuvants. The aluminum, the mercury, to excite your immune system to get. To activate, to recognize the attenuated or killed virus. Right. What this does is it. It's a. MRNA this mess. You know, it's modified. It's not real messenger rna, It's. It's modified so it doesn't degrade. MRNA degrades very rapidly, put into a lipid nanopartica particle which is designed to permeate difficult permeate barriers like the blood brain. They knew it would never stay in the arm and they lied to us. So body distributes all over the body. The lipid nanoparticle also then allows the MRNA to enter the cell. Enters the cell, hijacks the cellular structure and causes the cell to express the spike protein, which then the body attacks with something foreign to it.

[A]

And is the. Dr. Frankenstein here, is that Francis Collins, head of NIH, or is it his understudy, Anthony Fauci?

[B]

I think they're all, you know, criminally liable on this. But you know, I would say it's primarily Fauci. You know, he, he had a, you know, with people like, you know, henchmen like Rick Bright and Tom Shimuro and all these people covered it up. But there was a panel at the Milken institute, I think October 2019, where he had Rick Bright and Anthony Fauci and they're bemoaning the fact that we don't have a universal vaccination campaign.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean again, vaccines have become a religion. Okay, I understand the appeal, but it's become like religious zeal of pushing vaccines. So they want a universal vaccination program. Flu season just wasn't cutting it. You know, people, first of all, the flu vaccine doesn't work that well. Okay, so. So they finally said it's probably going to take a pandemic. Well, by God, they got their pandemic about three months later and they were so just almost a maniacal pursuit of, you know, first of all, Remdesivir is the treatment which got removed from a Ebola trial because it was Killing off the subjects faster than just Ebola. Nurses refer to remdesivir as run. Death is near.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because it knocks out the kid. This is still being, you know, the who. The WHO Recommends against use, which is.

[A]

Run by the Chinese.

[B]

And we're still using it. Yeah. Is still a standard of care. What. What is it about our medical establishment? They are so unbelievably blind where they don't listen to the frontline nurses. No, we've got a. You know, our medical establishment is really broken. You've got a. Got a big problem because you've got a large percentage of Americans that no longer trust their doctors.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that distrust is legitimate. I hate to say that, because, you know, doctors, medical. They saved my daughter with a serious congenital heart defect, open heart surgery at the age of 8 months. So I have a reverence for doctors and. And nurses. But, man, what they did during COVID what they continue to do is just inexcusable.

[A]

And why is that? Is that because the medical schools have taught a whole cohort of woke doctors?

[B]

Because anybody that questions the dogma. The dogma, you know, the. The orthodoxy, they destroy. I mean, they utterly. I mean, Semmelweis. Very famous instance back in the 1800s, this guy, I think he was an OB GYN, but he's kind of noticing his other obgyns coming in from performing autopsies in the morgue, going right to deliver a baby and having a reasonably high level of infinite mortality. So he just kind of innocently says, well, maybe you ought to wash your hands first. They just. They destroyed him. They destroyed him. He ended up dying in an insane asylum. Okay.

[A]

Okay. Yes.

[B]

That's just one example. But look what happened to Covid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I get Peter McCulloch talking about hydroxychloroquine. Baylor sues him, they fire him, they terminate him, they threaten his. His medical license. Same with Pierre Corey. Same with Dr. Bowden in. In Texas.

[A]

So it's your fault.

[B]

So. Yeah, no, I. I feel guilty about it. I do. I. I'm. It's. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't take many. You know, if you're a dictator, you know, just hang a couple people that go out of line and pretty well, the population falls into line, and that's what's happened. I think, again, it's hard to blame them when they see what happens to the ones that have the courage to speak out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, a doctor puts in how many years of training and residency and then how many years of experience? I mean, they do it because they want to heal people, they want to help people. They don't want that destroyed. They don't want to be.

[A]

It's like the FBI whistleblowers, too. I mean, they, they were hung out to drive dry and destroyed in a way.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And that shut up everyone else.

[B]

That keeps people pretty much in line. Yeah, yeah. And that's. And again, congressional investigators, we need whistleblowers, we need investigative journalists to, you know, kind of dig up some of these leads for us and then we can use, to a sense, certain extents, our limited subpoena power. But the part of the problem we have is, and you're seeing here, administrations, no matter what the, you know, Democrat or Republican, they look at congressional oversight as. We'll wait them out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we've got a job to do here. So they don't prioritize congressional oversight. They don't respect congressional subpoenas because unless they come from Nancy Pelosi, they can wait it out.

[A]

Then Steve Ben and goes to jail.

[B]

Absolutely. No, I mean, again, if you're, if you're part of the deep state, if you're a leftist. Yeah. The deep state is incredibly helpful.

[A]

So what makes you. Just going back, I guess, to your background in Wisconsin, you're a businessman, you're not really a politician. And what makes you different from so many other politicians that come here and don't open their eyes and don't tread into these no go zones that you have?

[B]

Well, I'm not a politician. I'm a citizen legislator. I didn't do this until I was 55 years old. You know, probably the most unique quality is I'd rather be home.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So again, when I first ran, I made two promises. They always get misinterpreted. But I said I'll never vote with my reelection mind.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which means I won't conduct myself worrying about reelection. I always tell you the truth. Those are my two promises in 2010. Now, they misinterpret that. Say I was going to run for one term. I never said that. I said I wouldn't vote or conduct myself. My election mind. I mean, and I've. That's always been true because I would rather, I mean, you don't have to spend much time in this alternate universe to get unbelievably frustrated by it and want to go home. Yeah. So again, that's, that's.

[A]

When don't you. Why don't you?

[B]

Well, I was going to, but then nobody else was advocating for the vaccine injured.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you know, I love this country. I mean, there's never been a place like America in all of human history.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I couldn't turn my back on it. Truthfully. I realized I'm pretty unique. Just the whole debate of the one big beautiful bill. I mean, I was pretty critical of the fact that it didn't meet the moment. Didn't even come close to returning to a reasonable pre pandemic of spending. Right. Yeah. President wasn't happy with me. No. I said, you're too negative. You're too negative. Which I probably was. Yeah. But that's, I mean, that's who I am. I'm gonna, I'm going to say what I believe and.

[A]

Is that because you're from Wisconsin? Tell us about your, your family. You're one of.

[B]

Well, so I had a wonderful family. Had two parents of deep faith who loved me. I wish every, every child could say that. So it was just, it was that upbringing I had, you know. Protestant, straight shooter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Clean your plate. Don't, you know, always tell the truth, be kind. That's who, you know, that's who I am. That's kind of what upper Midwest is like. I remember Charles Krauthammer one time came into Kohler, gave a speech. I'm originally from Minnesota. And he said, you always hear Minnesota, nice. Right, Right. And they are nice people. He said, but I say Wisconsin even nicer. And I think that's true. I chose to live in Wisconsin. We're just really nice, decent people.

[A]

Yeah. And sometimes vote the wrong way, though.

[B]

In terms of vote left. Oh, yeah, yeah. We got, we're, we're deeply divided state. Yeah. Why Politics. I can't, I can't explain it.

[A]

Yeah. And then you worked for your, I think your wife's family company for a long time. You were CEO.

[B]

Well, yeah, we kind of had an offshoot supplier to the, the, the multinational company that my father in law was CEO of. They needed supply. They couldn't get a particular type of plastic. So I came over supposedly as the accountant, but, you know, I want to do everything. We reran the equipment, helped, you know, install it, ran it. When we need a salesman. I went out and sold globally, so essentially sold that to a British company, then I bought it back from the British company.

[A]

And so did that business background did that. Is that part of what gives you your kind of analytical.

[B]

Oh, it's huge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, manufacturing, you're solving problems all the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the first thing you know about problem solving is you have to first admit you have one, then you have to properly define it. You got to go, you got to go through the root cause analysis. You know the problem in Washington, D.C. everybody's got their bill, right. It's a solution without any data or any information backing it up. It sounds good. Like the patient Protection, Affordable Care Act. It did none of those things, but sounds good. It destroyed the individual insurance markets, caused premiums to skyrocket. It didn't even come close to leading up to false promises made. So no, this is a, this is a highly frustrating place. It's a data free zone. It's political talking points, it's rhetoric, it's demagoguery. Drives me nuts and I'm a very fact based, database driven kind of person.

[A]

And you hooked up with Senator Grassley pretty early on, didn't you? What was it about him that did you think that you could get?

[B]

First of all, we have great staff and they intermingle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So you know, my head of my staff director for the permanent subcommittee investigation, he was the staff member who took the whistleblower complaint on Fast and Furious, working for Grassley.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. So again, it's incredibly important the staff gets along, that they're willing to kind of share in the investigation, sort of share in the disclosures as well, opposed to having shell sharp elbows. So it's worked really well. Now, Senator Grassley was obviously kind of investing the. I, you start forgetting all these names after, after time, but you know, the whole Ukrainian connection to the US and he was already doing that. And then we kind of merged our investigations. Right.

[A]

Because you've had enormous successes, the two of you together.

[B]

Again, it's good staff work. Yeah, it really is. I mean, it's, you know, they always say, your investigation. I always go, no, your investigation. So. And it's, and it's rare, I mean, you know, that, I mean, there, there aren't many good investigators. There's, there's a, there's a process you go through and you have to be darn good at it. And you know, most, and I'm not critical here, most staffers here aren't in Washington, D.C. do investigations. They're here for legislation, other purposes. So.

[A]

But it also must be hard in a city that voted 94% Democrat to actually find staffers who are able to withstand that sort of negativity that they would get from their neighbors that their, you know, if they were being actually successful in their investigations.

[B]

They stay pretty quiet about it though, right? They stay behind the scenes. Yeah.

[A]

But it's a pretty.

[B]

That's why they call it your investigation.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah, but it's a nasty city, isn't it? I mean it's difficult to get.

[B]

It's a frustrating city. I wouldn't call it Nat. I mean, I think it's a real misconception like that we fight like cats and dogs for between Democrats and it's no, it's a very collegial place. Right? It is. I mean we get along. There are friendships between Democrats, Republicans, that type of thing. You know, when it comes down to some of the bare knuckle politics, it can get kind of nasty on the airways and stuff. But there's, there's not again, it's a pretty collegial atmosphere here.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you very much for your time.

[B]

Well, thanks for coming. Really nice seeing you here in this alternate universe. Thanks.

[A]

Thanks for joining Pod Force One. I'm Miranda Devine and you're not going to want to miss next week. Please leave a comment below. And to our listeners, please like and subscribe to our viewers. I love reading your input and would love to know what you think of this interview. Please leave a comment below.