← Pod Force One
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- [00:00]
A
I don't take seriously intellectually anything. Anything. Tucker Carlson said, Jeffrey Epstein is the I regret defending. I wish I had never met him. This guy comes over to me and starts yelling, me pedophile. Pedophile, pedophile. And, you know, dirty Jew pedophile.
- [00:17]
B
Welcome back to Pod Force One. We are in New York with the legendary Professor Alan Dershowitz, who has been probably the most outspoken defender of civil liberties in his long career. But it's come at a heavy price, so we're about to speak to him about some of those costs. Good morning, Professor Dershowitz. Thanks for joining us.
- [00:41]
A
Well, thanks for having me on. As you say, I've been canceled by a lot. I mean, the New York Times won't allow me to have op eds. I used to be the most frequent op ed contributor among lawyers. Now they're specializing in giving platforms to neo Nazis like Hassan Piker. A lot of institutions have canceled me the 92nd Street Y Temple Emanuel. So I'm glad you're having me on.
- [01:06]
B
Of course. And were you canceled because you dared to defend Donald Trump during his impeachment?
- [01:14]
A
Yes, that was the main reason. I've been canceled because I support Israel. I've been canceled, but I. But primarily it's been Donald Trump. And for example, I used to sit next to the owner of the Red Sox in Fenway Park. I was his frequent guest. He took me on his airplane. We went to the Galapagos together. We went on his boat. We were friends, and his wife and my wife. The minute I defended Donald Trump, he cut me off completely. I was never invited to Fenway park again. And that's been true of many friends. But the worst thing is I've been canceled as a speaker. So people on Martha's Vineyard can't hear me speak at the library. People who come to the 92nd street why can't hear me speak. Temple Emanuel gives $25,000 to a person who denies Israel's right to exist but don't allow me to speak. So the cancellation has been largely because of my defense of Donald Trump. And now that I've become a Republican, the cancellations will increase. And, you know, a lot of Republicans don't love me either, because I'm not a right winger. I'm a civil libertarian, iconoclastic individual thinker who goes where the justice goes. So cancellation is probably my middle name.
- [02:35]
B
Right? I mean, you're right about Republicans not fully trusting you, even though you have now finally, I think at, you know, quite a tragic thing for you with your family Pedigree of being Democrats, having renounced the party that you've stuck with through thick and thin. But you are really, I think, only renouncing them on foreign policy. You still support all their domestic policy.
- [03:05]
A
Not all of them, for example, don't support. The Democratic party has now gotten behind a neo Nazi in Maine. I know a Nazi cartoon on his body or symbol on his body. They're supporting a candidate in Michigan for the Senate who campaigns with Hassan Piker, who's a Hitler supporter, Holocaust denier, a neo Nazi. So no, the Democrats have pushed me to become a Republican and I'm a foreign policy primary Republican. But I also support their policies on fighting antisemitism, the Republicans, on some of what they're doing to colleges and universities and trying to make them back, bring them back to being educational institutions, not propaganda institutions. So I go beyond foreign policy, but I still support a woman's right to choose. I support gay rights, I support the environment. I support a lot of things that Democrats support, but a lot of Republicans support them too. Yeah.
- [04:12]
B
And I mean, look, I think of the Democrat body as being open borders dei, all the woke nonsense, the gender transitions of children and so on. I mean, that seems to me what they've become on domestic issues. And then as you say, they're anti Israel.
- [04:32]
A
Yeah, no, I'm opposed to open borders, obviously. I'm opposed to a surgical transition that is done over parents objections and you know, extreme. Look, I'm a liberal centrist and America has always thrived at the center. You know, in the 1930s, we were the only world power that didn't succumb to becoming either communist or fascist because we had a moderate new deal centrist Democrat. My grandmother had a picture of Franklin Delano Roosevelt hanging in her house. We were Democrats, we were Kennedy Democrats, we were Clinton Democrats. I'm not sure any of those people would today even recognize the Democratic party. I pity poor Bill Clinton, who's a friend of mine. I haven't spoken to him for a while, but you know, he's a centrist Democrat. And now he's in the same party as these supporters of neo Nazis. And you know, he's a very big supporter of Israel, a supporter of the Jewish people. He must feel terrible a conflict. He's resolved it by staying within the Democratic party and fighting. I resolved it by first leaving the Democratic party and becoming an independent. And then I decided being an independent for me is a cop out and I have to help the Republicans maintain control of the House, the Senate and the presidency. Because the last thing I want is Liz Warren to be chairman of a committee, you know, at lunch together for years. And now she supports this Nazi in Maine and she supports this piker supporter in Michigan. I can't identify with Liz Warren, with aoc, with Senator Murphy, who's become one of the most anti Israel senators. And he's, you know, going to run for president.
- [06:17]
B
Chuck Schumer.
- [06:18]
A
Well, you know, Schumer tries hard. Although he today endorsed this candidate from Maine. He wants to maintain, you know, he wants to become a majority leader. And the only way to become majority leader is to have this Nazi defeat Collins. I don't know in his heart really whether he wants the Nazi to defeat Collins, but he wants Collins to lose because he wants to pick up the main vote. That's not a principled person. So I'm not a big Chuck Schumer supporter. But considering the alternative, if Schumer is dumped, who are they gonna get to be the leader of the Democratic Party?
- [06:55]
B
Aoc.
- [06:56]
A
Plus they got Jeffries, who's not such great shakes either.
- [06:59]
B
Yeah. And what do you think happened to the Democratic Party over time? When do you think it lost its mojo? And why did it allow itself to, to be overtaken by really the radical left wing? I mean, you were an anti communist in your youth, but now it seems that Communism is the new flavor of the Democratic Party. Particularly when you look at the new, very popular new voices like Zoram Mamdani. That's where the energy is.
- [07:31]
A
Yeah, I think it's coming from universities. The University of Munich at Berlin and other places. Stalinism started at universities. Castroism started at universities. Pol Pot, the Butcher of Cambodia had big support among students, young people. You know, when I was growing up, we would say, don't trust anybody over 30. I'm now beginning to say, don't trust anybody under 30 and their professors. Universities have become villains of this train, this transition. You know, I taught at Harvard 50 years. I was probably the most well known professor in modern Harvard history. Now I can't get invited back to speak at Harvard. They will not invite me back. They will not allow my books to be distributed at Harvard. They've sent books at Harvard Law School. They won't allow my book, the Preventive State to be distributed at Harvard Law School. It won't allow me to speak there. It's a one sided place of propaganda. And if you want to know what a country will look like in 20 years, look at its colleges today. And if you look at what Harvard and Yale. Yale at least admits that they have a problem. Harvard has a great president. I love the president of Harvard, but presidents of Harvard don't have a lot of power. It's the faculty that has the power and the student body that has the power. And universities are becoming places of intolerance toward conservatism, intolerance towards centrism, intolerance toward liberalism. I'm a liberal, and I can't speak at Harvard because I'm not a radical.
- [09:06]
B
I spoke to recently a law professor. I won't mention which institution, but he said, apart from the fact that 95% of the students are liberal, it used to be that when students had debates, they would be arguing debates.
- [09:24]
A
I haven't heard that word now in a long time. Debates.
- [09:27]
B
Debates. Well, precisely. It was. It was about the Constitution.
- [09:33]
A
They would say, there's no two sides to that issue. We're not going to allow the Lincoln Douglas debate. We're not going to allow debates between Jefferson and Hamilton. We're not going to allow those debates. You know, I used to debate at Harvard. William Buckley, he was the great debater. I was the liberal debater. We used to debate and then go out and have a drink and enjoy each other's company. Imagine having a Dershowitz Buckley debate at Harvard today. It's inconceivable, really. You don't have debates at universities because these issues are not debatable. There's only one side to the issue, the left side. And so the model of Harvard Law School today is Liz Warren and the extreme, extreme left. And I challenged Liz Warren to debate me in front of Harvard Law School. A, she won't do it because she'd get her rear end whipped, but she won't do it because the Harvard Law School won't allow it. They will not allow a debate between me and Liz Warren, even though we're both former Harvard Law professors, because they don't want students to hear both sides. They're afraid, God forbid, maybe I might win the debate and I might change some minds at Harvard. And that's the last thing that Harvard wants. I'm not talking about, again, the president of Harvard or even the dean of the law school. I'm talking about dominant members of the faculty and of the student body.
- [11:03]
B
So how did they get so much power to shut down what's an essential part of our culture's ability to discuss ideas, which is, you know, testing either sides of a debate in reasonable way? Because what's the alternative propaganda? How did it get to that? And just. I mean, I also Want to ask you about Liz Warren because she was one of your students, as was Ted Cruz. So obviously you weren't propagandizing because they're two opposites.
- [11:40]
A
I loved having Ted Cruz as a student because he walked into my class first day in law school with his right hand raised, and he never put it down all semester. And everything I said and did, I should have paid him half my salary. We disagreed about everything, and that's what law school classes should be about. I didn't have Liz Warren as a student. I had her as a colleague for many years. We taught the same section because we were both regarded as very good classroom teachers. And she was. Had a reputation as a good classroom teacher, not as a scholar or as a deep thinker, but as somebody who was a good teacher. And I supported her when she ran for the Senate. In fact, she called me over and she sat me down and she said, alan, I don't know anything about the Middle East. I don't even know where Israel is.
- [12:26]
B
Wow.
- [12:26]
A
And I have to go to the Senate now. Please give me a tutorial. So I spent a few hours with her explaining the Middle east to her. I was a total failure as a teacher. She's now become a Hamas supporting Hezbollah supporting hard left, anti Israel, anti American. And I think she's crossed the line to antisemitism. This is my former colleague, Liz Warren, who will take over various chairmanships of the Senate if the Senate get a majority, which they may, but over my very, very, very strong opposition.
- [13:00]
B
Professor Dershowitz, what was the galvanizing moment that made you decide just a few weeks ago that you were going to publicly renounce the. The Democratic Party, join the Republican Party, which is the Trump Republican Party, of all things, which, of course is just Satan's work, if you ask most of your former Democrats.
- [13:24]
A
Well, it was a gradual process. I left the Democratic Party when they had their convention, and their convention became a platform for anti Israel, anti American, anti Semitic speakers. They didn't have any pro Israel speakers in 2024. Yeah. And that caused me to leave the Democrats, but I became an independent. And then when the Democrats start nominating people like the candidate from Maine and potentially the candidate from Michigan, and started putting at the center of their party people like Bernie Sanders, who is the most anti Semitic senator in modern history, is Jewish, but he's a too. Let's never forget that thousands, not tens of thousands, thousands of Jews voted for Adolf Hitler in the 1932 election in Germany. And Bernie Sanders would have voted for Stalin I have no doubt about that. He would have supported Pol Pot in his genocide against the people of Cambodia. He surely would have supported Castro in his attempted genocide against the people who of Cuba. He's an evil, evil man. And yet he's the face he now claims to be the leader of the Democratic Party. He said, Look, I got 40 votes against Israel and Schumer only got seven votes. And look, there's an election occurring now on the Upper west side of New York, a largely Jewish Democratic area where I live. I don't live on the Upper west side, but it's part of my voting district. Although I'm not a New York voter, I'm a Florida resonant. But in that race for the Senate seat, for the House seat, the campaign is. Who's more anti Israel? One Jew is running against the other. No, I'm more anti Israel. No, no, no, I'm more anti Israel than you are. I'm even more anti Israel. That campaign for the Democratic nomination. Whoever gets the Democratic nomination will win the election. The guy who's likely to win is Jack Schlossberg, the Kennedy grandson who's a complete idiot. A complete moral. Do you know he actually had a podcast in which he claimed I killed my wife when I produced my wife. He had.
- [15:39]
B
Really?
- [15:40]
A
Yeah. I mean, the guy is a complete idiot and wins the nomination. I may well sue him for defamation for his absurd claim that I killed my wife and other claims about me. And you know, I was his uncle's lawyer. I was Ted Kennedy's lawyer. Yeah, Bobby Kennedy. I met and worked for the election of John Kennedy. I've been a Kennedy supporter. But Schlossberg is a complete moron, even though he went to Harvard Law School. But that's who the Democrats are pushing these days. Look, there are some Republicans who I oppose just as strongly, but when you get a woman like Bush running again for election in the St. Louis, Missouri area, she's an overt antisemite and the Democrats are gonna nominate her again. So, you know, I feel like I'm in 1932 Berlin at the standing up against what was going on. Not 1938. I'm not saying 1938, but in 1932, before the election of Hitler as chancellor, the universities were turning against Jews. If there was Israel, they'd have been turning against Israel. And I feel I'm one of the few people who am standing up against my old party. Look, I became a Democrat when I was 14 years old. I used to go with a loudspeaker and campaign for a guy named Philip Shupler who was running for assembly of the Democratic ticket. So I've been a Democrat for 70 years. I now am strongly opposed to that party. I want them defeated in every single election. Not everyone. There are a few. There's this Senate congressman from New Jersey, there's a couple of congresspeople from other places that I want to see. But I want to see the Democrats lose control of the House and lose control of the Senate and lose control of the presidency because I am scared of them. They are against America, they're against Israel, they're against Jews. And the leading people against the Jews are other Jews. Thank God for Christians and Muslims who support Israel. Israel cannot count on its Jewish population. Many support Israel. Most support Israel. But some of its most vociferous opponents, organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace, which isn't Jewish and doesn't have a voice and is against peace. But you know, they are leading the campaign against Israel along with a group like the Natura Carta, very, very ultra orthodox anti Zionists who support Iran, who want Iran to get a nuclear bomb. These are just self defeating, self hating idiots and I'm gonna stand up against them. I'm 87 years old. I don't know the strength I had when I was 47, but I'm gonna use every bit of strength I have to oppose the Democrats.
- [18:30]
B
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- [19:40]
A
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- [19:55]
B
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A
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- [20:06]
B
Watch only on Prime. It's interesting that you raised 1930s Berlin because that is something that. That a lot of never Trump as anti Trump people do as well. But they say that Trump is Hitler, that Trump is the existential threat. And because of that, we have to throw aside all legal niceties just to get Trump. That was the premise of one of your many bestselling books. But just you've met Donald Trump. I mean, you've never voted for him, I gather. But what do you make of him? Is he Hitler?
- [20:50]
A
Oh, quite the opposite. I mean, I don't think Hitler stood up for the Jewish community and imposed restrictions on Harvard because of its failure to deal with antisemitism. Trump is the anti Hitler. He's exactly the opposite. He's standing up for the Jewish community. He's standing up for Israel. He's standing up against universities. Is he going too far? Reasonable people could disagree. I don't want to see Harvard lose its funding for cancer research or Alzheimer's research. I would like to see selective cutting off of funds for the divinity school, which has become very anti Israel, the public health school very anti Israel, Some of the departments very anti Israel. Yeah, that's fine. But I don't want to see cancer research cut off. So, you know, I have my criticisms of the Republicans, I have my criticisms of Trump, but on balance, I prefer Trump over today's Democrats. I don't disclose who I voted for in the last election, but I can tell you up until then, it was Democrats all the way. But I will not vote for Democrats this time. I'll vote for Josh Gottheimer in New Jersey. I don't vote in New Jersey. But I will support him and send him money because he's a great, great guy. And there are a handful of others in the Senate, Jackie Rosen and a few others like that.
- [22:13]
B
But John Fetterman.
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A
Fetterman is my hero, my favorite guy. I will campaign for him. And he's the only thing that's left of the. Almost the only thing left of the Democratic Party. Seven Democrats, only seven Democrats voted against cutting off aid to Israel. And almost all the Jewish senators, including Adam Schiff, voted to cut off aid against Israel. Adam Schiff was a student at Harvard Law School and not a supporter of his either.
- [22:44]
B
Was Adam Schiff one of your students?
- [22:46]
A
I don't remember him as a student, no.
- [22:49]
B
Was Ted Cruz a good student?
- [22:51]
A
Great student? I mean, he was the kind of student every decent professor should like. Some of the professors didn't like him because he stood up to them. But as a 21 year old freshman student right out of Princeton, he was willing to stand up to professors and I knew he had a future.
- [23:09]
B
And was he clever?
- [23:10]
A
Very. Very smart. Very smart. Very, very quick. Very clever, very smart. And he's, I think, done a lot of good, particularly for Israel, for the Jewish community and I think for America as well. So I sent him contributions. I even started sending him contributions while I was still a Democrat.
- [23:30]
B
He may end up on the Supreme Court one day.
- [23:33]
A
Well, I don't think. I'm not sure he would take it. He would be a very interesting justice, but I think he wants to stay in politics. I don't know, I can't be sure, but he'd be an interesting Supreme Court choice.
- [23:49]
B
And now Donald Trump, of course, has attacked Iran. He's hell bent on ensuring they don't have a nuclear weapon. And that's caused him quite a lot of grief among his own supporters. I'm thinking particularly of Tucker Carlson and you know, some other high profile but also just base supporters. And there is in their objections to war. I know Tucker Carlson's very anti war, has been since the Iraq war.
- [24:21]
A
He is just, he's anti Trump. He'd be in favor of war if it was the kind of war he supported. He's a phony and a hypocrite. He, he has no principles whatsoever and so don't take him seriously when he says he's anti war. Even when he says isolationist, he just picks and chooses and if it's in favor of Trump, he's going to be against it. I don't take seriously intellectually anything Tucker Carlson says. I used to be on his show a lot and when he became very anti immigrant, I pointed out the fact that his ancestors, I think on his mother's side, I forget which side, were Irish and immigrants and he was furious of me and canceled me from his show.
- [25:07]
B
Well, regardless, I mean, he's not the only one. There are, you know, Republican conservatives, I guess, maga, who are furious with Donald Trump because they say that he promised not to start new wars. And maybe they're not even Republicans. They might have been independents or, you know, Democrat dissidents. And they also, now that has taken a turn to being anti Israel. And then there's the morphing over to whether it's just anti Zionism or antisemitism. Do you see a distinction?
- [25:41]
A
Not the way people practice it. If you only are anti Zionist, if you're in favor of. If you haven't said anything about the genocide in Sudan or what's happening to the Uyghurs or what happened previously, then you're an anti Semite. If you just single out Israel as the only country you're opposed to and call it anti Zionism, that's a cover for antisemitism. There are genuine people who are not anti Semitic, who don't support the current Israeli government with Netanyahu. Okay, that's a fair point, but that's not generally what's going on on college campuses today. We're college campuses today. The line between anti Zionism and antisemitism has essentially disappeared.
- [26:25]
B
And what do you make of Donald Trump's campaign in Iran? Do you think it's going well?
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A
I'm completely in favor of doing everything to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, including regime change. Look, this will never, ever bring about peace in the Middle east as long as the current regime is in power. This is the perfect moral case for regime change, and we should not give up until there is a new regime, until the people of Iran take over democratically. The vast majority of Iranians don't want the mullahs in charge. It's a tyrannical regime, and we should be supporting regime change. Now, I'm not saying boots on the ground. I'm saying that we should do everything in our power to see that a new regime comes in. A democratic regime, a regime that represents the people of Iran, a regime that gives up its nuc weapon ambitions. A regime that doesn't close the Straits of Hormuz. I was one of the people who urged President Trump to close the Straits of Hormuz if Iran decides which ships go through. I wrote an op ed just about a week before he decided to close the Straits, in which I said, look, Iran shouldn't have the choice of opening it up to some boats and not others. The United States should say to Iran, and it's either open to all or it's closed to all. And they did. I'm completely in favor of it, and I think it's working. Now, Trump doesn't want to restart the war at the moment. He may have to. But I don't believe negotiations will result in an end of Iran's nuclear weapon ambition or a permanent opening of the Straits of Hormuz. So I suspect that we more military action will be necessary. I hope I'm wrong. I hate war. I much prefer to see a negotiated resolution. But the Obama negotiated resolution, I wrote a book about it called the Case against the Iran Deal was terrible. It guaranteed Iran by this time, they would have had a nuclear arsenal under the Obama deal. So I would like to see a far, far, far better deal with all of Iran's enriched material taken out of the country, brought to a neutral country. And ultimately, I'd like to see regime change.
- [28:48]
B
And I think the Operation Economic Epic Fury has been very successful, too, in making Iran broke. I think that's probably having an effect on those in charge.
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A
I have great compassion for Americans, particularly those who drive for a living, whose gas prices go up. I've made another proposal that I wish the United States would seriously consider. I think we should delink American oil from international oil. We have a plethora of oil. We can start charging a half price for oil, bring the gas prices in the United States down and tell opec, which is now about to probably disintegrate, but tell the world, hey, you want to change? You want to charge a lot of money for your oil that is blocked from the Straits of Hormuz? Fine. American oil is going down to $60 a barrel. And we will sell it to our friends, we will sell it to our own gas people, we'll bring the price of gas down in America. The price of gas in Europe will be up. That's your problem, not our problem.
- [29:52]
B
How do you force private companies, though, to cut their profits in half and continue to explore and spend the money
- [30:02]
A
opening new sources of oil because they're windfall profits. They're making money off the closure of the Straits of Hormuz. And what we can say is you can go 20%, make 20% profit on your costs, et cetera, but we're not gonna let you get windfalls based on something that doesn't affect your oil. It doesn't go through the Straits of Hormuz. We've done that over and over again, particularly in wartime. And I think we can have our cake and eat it. That is, we can sell gas to Americans at low prices, bring the price of gas way, way, way down, and at the same time, keep it high in Europe and other places. You know, that's essentially what Trump has done with his tariffs. Use economy to help Americans and to hurt Americans enemies. I think we can do that, but it will take a lot of effort, and a lot of economists are opposed to it, but a lot of people were opposed to closing the Straits of Hormuz when I supported it and now are in favor of it. So I'm in favor of at least starting to think about how we can delink the price of American oil from the price, the international price that's artificially raised because of Iran's decision to close the Straits of Hormuz.
- [31:20]
B
That would be a fantastic idea if it were possible. And now we always hear about Donald Trump. I mean, you know him, I know him a little bit. He doesn't seem to me to be someone who's easily controllable. In fact, he's the opposite. But the narrative has taken hold in some parts of the Republican Party and of course the Democrats, that Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, basically coerced him, tricked him into joining the Iran attacks.
- [31:57]
A
This anti Semitic trope, the Jews pull the strings, they control the puppets. Donald Trump is only a puppet. He's doing what Netanyahu wants. I've known Netanyahu since 1970. That's a long time. I've known Donald Trump probably since the 80s or 90s. I can tell you one thing. Donald Trump is not controlled by Benjamin Netanyahu. They have an arm's length relationship. Donald Trump has some tensions with Netanyahu. He will never do anything just because Netanyahu asked him to do it. It's a myth, and it's an anti Semitic myth to say that Benjamin Netanyahu pulls the strings and controls Netanyahu controls Trump. He doesn't. Trump makes his own decisions. He makes them for what's best for America. And I'm glad he made the decision to go into Iran to help destroy its nuclear materials and to destroy its rocket capacity. I think this will go down in history as a good war, a just war. I make an analogy. 1935. If Winston Churchill had been Prime Minister of England 1935, and he had militarily attacked Nazi Germany for violating the Versailles Treaty. A preventive war, totally preventive war. He could have saved 50 million lives. 50 million lives. Instead, he wrote a book called While Europe Slept. And John Kennedy used that title in his book. And they allowed Nazi Germany to become stronger and stronger until it conquered all of Europe, killed 50 million people, including 6 million Jews. And I think that the attack on Iran may have saved 50 million lives. If Iran would have developed nuclear arsenal and would have used it against Israel and against the world, and now we know they would have used it probably against Qatar and against the Emirates and against other Arab countries. This war may go down in history as one of the most important preventive wars ever. Now, you know, history is blind to the future, so we'll never know how many lives he prevented. If Churchill had attacked Germany and killed 10,000 Germans and 5,000 Brits in 1935, we'd never know that he saved 50 million lives. So it takes a lot of courage to engage in a preventive war when you're not going to get the benefit.
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B
No, you're never going to get the credit for stopping something that hasn't happened yet. And you talk about your knowing Donald Trump since the 80s. Is it true that Leona Helmsley, who was one of your. The Queen of Means, she was called a hotel proprietor in New York City, she had stolen a teddy bear from Donald Trump. And that was how you first talked to him?
- [34:46]
A
That's right. What happened is my little girl was born, and I was representing Leona Helmsley, and she sent by her airplane and a limo a giant teddy bear that my daughter still has in her room. She's now 37 years old, 36. She has it in her room. She was born in 1990. And one day she called, I was her lawyer, and she said to me, how does Ella like the teddy bear? And I said, she loved it. And then Leona, in her deep voice, says, I stole it from Donald Trump. And she explained to me how she sold him Rumpel Myers, the great little restaurant in the St. Moritz Hotel that she owned. And part of the sale was all of the stuffed animals that were its kind of symbol. And she said, I stole that. And I took it upstairs and I gave it to you. And I said, leona, I have to give it back. I can't have my daughter have a stone. No, no, call Donald. He'll be okay with it. So I managed to get Donald Trump on the phone. He was then just a real estate guy, and I had advised him a little bit, and when he was building Mar a Lago, just one or two phone calls. And so he took my call and I said, I have a stolen bear. He said, oh, we all know that. We all knew stole it. We didn't know it was for you. But now that I know it's for you, you can keep it with my blessings. And just tell your daughter it's from Uncle Donald. My daughter. Uncle Donald's teddy bear. I have to tell you, my daughter did not vote for Donald Trump. And so not thrilled about having Donald Trump's teddy bear. But we do have Donald Trump's teddy bear in my daughter's Bedroom. So that's how. That's the origin of my relationship with, with Donald Trump through Leona Helmsley and this little, this bear.
- [36:48]
B
You've had some amazing clients, very high profile cases. There was Klaus von Bulow I was particularly interested in because, of course, you wrote a book about it. Reversal of Fortune, I believe, turned into an Oscar winning movie, which is fantastic movie.
- [37:07]
A
Late son Elon, who died this past year, made the movie and he gets the credit for it. He brought it to Hollywood. He persuaded Jeremy Irons to play Klaus von Bulow and brilliantly play me. And it's a great movie and it's a great, great heritage for my son Elon, who is a moviemaker.
- [37:28]
B
Yes, it is. And tell us about Ilan.
- [37:32]
A
Well, my son Elon was a remarkable young man. When he was 10 years old, he had a malignant brain tumor and they told him he wouldn't live to his bar mitzvah. And we took him all over the world to have radiation and the best kind of treatment. And he lived an additional 54 years. But tragically, it ultimately caught up to him in the past August, and he tragically died a peaceful death. But I miss him every single day. I worked with him all the time. I've dedicated my books to him. He was the producer of my podcast and just a great person. Last night I went to the Antiquarian Book Fair in New York, which I do every year. I used to go every year with Elon. He used to love to collect books and posters with me. And so I have a new book coming out which I've dedicated to him. It's called Founding Fathers and one Jewish Founding Fathers of the United States, Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, with the Founding fathers and one mother, Golda Meir of Israel. And it has a lot of my collection of documents. Early copy of the Constitution, early copy of the Declaration, early copy of Common Sense with early copies of letters about the founding of Israel. So he helped me very much collecting the material. And so I've dedicated the book to him.
- [38:53]
B
Oh, how wonderful. You are incredibly prolific in your. I mean, that sounds like a. That doesn't even sound like a compliment. But your books are amazing and you have enormous energy. You seem driven. I mean, I think you're 87. You've told us you are driven still to produce and keep working and not retire. What is behind that?
- [39:20]
A
The horrible world that we live in and the dangers that we face. I really think of myself as living in 1932, Berlin, and I can't let up. I can't allow 20, 26, America to become what happened in Nazi Germany in 33, 34, 35, 38 and ultimately 40, 41 with the Holocaust, I don't know that I'll live to see the end. But I'm gonna do everything as long as I'm alive to prevent the world from turning into what it turned into in the late 30s and early 40s. I'm very, very concerned about that. And I'm concerned that it's the hard left today, not the hard right, that's driving the world against the Jews, against the Jewish people, against Judeo Christian values, American values. And as long as I have the energy, I'm going to fight against that. No matter how many enemies I make, and believe me, I will make enemies. I'm going to go up to Martha's Vineyard this summer as I have since the day I first went there to defend Ted Kennedy when he was accused of a homicide for driving his car and a woman off a bridge. From the day I went there, I'm going back and nobody will talk to me. And there will be a few restaurants that won't serve me. Hey, I have my few friends and my few restaurants that do serve me. But I've lived my life based on principle. I'm going to live my life until the end based on principle. I'll never deviate from my principles no matter how many enemies it makes.
- [40:50]
B
Well, I think your enemies look like worms. I know this story tells about Larry David. Classic, you know, a friend of yours, what did he do?
- [40:59]
A
It was a one sided friend. I mean, he always asked me for things. He never gave me anything. He asked me to help his daughter get into college, which I did. He asked me for a number of other favors, which I did. And you know, we were. He came to my house and worked out in my gym. He would come over the house and have dinner all the time. But the minute I defended Donald Trump, he started screaming at me and yelling at me and saying I was despicable and horrible and all of that. And so our one sided friendship terminated. But my wife never liked curb your enthusiasm. But I can't watch it anymore because I realized that the curmudgeon character is not a character. It's the real Larry David. So he's a mean, nasty man and he can't tolerate contact with people who have a different point of view from him politically. So that's not the kind of friend I want to have.
- [42:02]
B
And you mentioned that you defended Ted Kennedy after Chubbaquiddick. What was your impression of Him. There doesn't seem to be anything really defensible about the fact that he left a young woman to drown.
- [42:16]
A
He tried. No, he went back. He went back on several occasions, tried to open up the window, tried to save her, and he couldn't do it. And the evidence showed that what he did was not a felony and he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. And look, I was his lawyer, so I have to present his point of view. I also worked with his brother Bobby, and I was working on his campaign at the time he was killed. And I was a law clerk in the Supreme Court on the day John Kennedy was killed. And I was the one who had to tell the justices who were in a secret conference where nobody's allowed in. I had to knock on the door and tell them that the President had been shot. And I had the only television in the whole Supreme Court because I'm a baseball fan. A little TV there from the World Series. And all the justices came to my little cubicle, my little awkward office, and we watched as Walter Cronkite announced his death. It was a momentous occasion and a terrible, terrible tragedy. But I was very close to the Kennedy family. But then, just to show you the culmination, maybe why Jack Softberg doesn't like me. So I got seated next to Caroline Kennedy at a dinner party on Martha's Vineyard, and she sat down and she said, oh, Alan, I wish I knew you were coming. If I knew you were coming, I would never have shown up. Wow. Why? Because you represented Donald Trump. I said, but I also represented Ted Kennedy. And she didn't say anything. And she said, I'm too polite to leave. So she didn't leave.
- [43:56]
B
Oh, that was pretty rude.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah.
- [43:58]
B
Pretty undiplomatic for a former ambassador to Australia.
- [44:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think her son Jack didn't like the way I spoke to her. And then he accused me of killing my wife. So
- [44:12]
B
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- [45:29]
A
Hey, this is Mike Slater. I have a podcast called Politics by Faith. I would love for you to listen. We take the news of the day and we run it through the Bible. What does the Bible have to say about this? Because there's nothing new under the sun. Read the headlines. Everything's all crazy. World's coming to an end. It's all in the Bible. And after every episode, hopefully you leave with a proper perspective and a biblical peace. Please join us wherever you listen to podcasts and we also have a YouTube page as well. YouTube.com politicsbyfaith
- [46:01]
B
you know, the assassinations, you. You lived through that era of assassinations with Martin Luther King and the Kennedys. We now have a situation where Donald Trump's been targeted for assassination three times. Really four times, if you count the guy who burst through the gates of Mar A Lago with a shotgun and
- [46:21]
A
gas canister happened yet from Iran. I mean, the foxwell was put on him. They tried to kill him. So he's been subject to more assassination attempts than any president in American history. And I worry. And actually, when I watched the dinner the other night, even before it happened, I said to my wife, I'm very concerned. This is a very big gathering. Who knows what could happen here? So I worry for Donald Trump, and I hope he serves out his term without any further assassination attempts.
- [47:01]
B
He's heading to China soon, and I think that's very unwise because China is. He's. He's the only obstacle between President Xi and world domination. I think Donald Trump personally. So they have every motivation in the world to rub him out.
- [47:20]
A
Oh, I think. I think Xi and Trump have a good relationship. I think he's safe in China. I think he's less safe in Brooklyn.
- [47:30]
B
So let's talk about Brooklyn. That's where you grew up and your roots and, and I guess what drives you really at heart. What were your parents like? And were there Holocaust survivors in your Family.
- [47:46]
A
Oh, there were many Holocaust survivors and many Holocaust victims in my family. I recently Learned of a 16 year old girl who was raped, murdered in auschwitz and her 14 and a half year old brother who was and killed. I lost many relatives in the Holocaust. But fortunately my grandfather at age 2 came to America in 1889. And so my family has lived here since the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century. Grew up in Borough park or not poverty family, but lower middle class. We didn't have extra money. I never got toys, use comic books. But a great neighborhood, Borough park, modern Orthodox neighborhood. I'm so ashamed of Brooklyn now. When I think of this horrible co op in Brooklyn now on Park Slope that is virulently anti Semitic, I want to see it closed down. Brooklyn today is one of the most Jewish neighborhoods and anti Semitic in the country. It's a kind of small picture of America, of the extremism of America. But I'm more ashamed of Brooklyn than I am proud of it. Although some of my good friends and particularly in the Italian American community and the Irish American community, they're so pro Israel, they're so pro Jewish, but so many people in the left wing of Brooklyn, including many Jews, have turned so strongly against Israel and against America that when you go to Brooklyn you have to be careful what neighborhoods you go to.
- [49:35]
B
And so you grew up, your parents were Orthodox Jews and you apparently weren't terribly good academically at school, which is surprising considering I think you were first in your class in Harvard.
- [49:48]
A
Yeah, well, within five years I turned from last to first. I was, I think 39th out of 47 in my high school class with a C average. But I did win a New York State scholarship because I was good at competitive exams. But I had trouble getting into college. I didn't have the grades to get into college. I finally got into Brooklyn College through an exam that a competitive exam you could take. And then I finished first among the men at Brooklyn College and then first at Yale Law School and then within five years or six years of being last in my class at high school, I was offered a professorship at Harvard.
- [50:29]
B
How did that happen?
- [50:30]
A
I was very motivated to show my rabbis how wrong they were. I went to Yeshiva high school and I was regarded as a buff. I recently found a record that I have a 78 record. I was in a journal American oratorical contest and my mother made a 78 record of my speech with Brooklyn accent about Abraham Lincoln. As we gaze in retrospect through the battles of American history, we see Great men. And so I was always a smart kid, but my rabbis didn't like me. And so they even made me second in the oratorical contest, even though I was pretty good orator. But once I got into college, I thrived. I became president of the student body, head of the debating team, we even won the athletic championship. My little house plan. I was a good athlete. And so I thrived once I got into college and then law school and then, you know, 50 years at Harvard. But now, after 50 years at Harvard, I'm not welcome back there.
- [51:40]
B
Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? And now, of all your famous and infamous clients, are there any that stand out to you that you're particularly fond of and any that you regret defending?
- [51:54]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so. Jeffrey Epstein is the I regret defending. I wish I had never met him. He was a terrible, terrible, evil man. But even in that case, many of his crimes are exaggerated. The vast majority of women who claim to be victims either came back over and over again to get the $250 to give him a massage or themselves became recruiters of other people or never met Epstein and just made it up. There were real victims too. Real, real victims. People who were below the age. So I regret having had any contact with him. I guess my favorite client was Natan Sharansky, who was in a Soviet prison for being a refusenik. And I for 10 years represented him pro bono. By the way, majority of my cases over my 60 year career have been pro bono, representing many women, many men who have no money, and people who have been subject to abuse and who have no recognition. Yes, I've had a few dozen high profile, famous cases and some in which I made a lot of money, but many of them were pro bono and people who are obscure. But Sharansky, who went to prison for being a refusenik, I helped get him out of prison. And that was my favorite client and my biggest legal accomplishment.
- [53:14]
B
And did he come here?
- [53:15]
A
He went to Israel and became very active in Israeli first politics and then he left politics and just became a moral force. He's a prominent intellectual in Israel today and I'm very proud to be, to be his friend. But I've also represented people on death row for free. I've represented women who have been victims for free. I represented, my first case was a woman who had her child taken away from her because she was a lesbian. And the court ruled that a lesbian mother was unqualified to be a mother. Child back and the child became a great student. Married a man and lives a good life. And so, you know, I'm very proud of the obscure cases as much as the famous victories, you know, on van Bulow and O.J. simpson.
- [54:05]
B
Tell us about Carl von Bulow because it's intriguing whether he did it or not. It seemed a pretty open and shut case before you got involved. And then, then it now seems a little murky. Do you think he did it? Did he murder his wife? Sonny Von Bulow, the heiress?
- [54:24]
A
I obviously can't comment on what I think. I think there very well may not have been a crime at all. We know that Sonny Von Bulow self injected. We know that she self medicated. We know that she had hypoglycemia and used to eat a lot of ice cream and sweets. And we know that she was smoking in bed while after her first coma. So I don't think anybody will ever know the true circumstances of that. Klaus, of course, to the day he died, categorically proclaimed his innocence. And as his lawyer, I had to argue his innocence. And we did, successfully. He was acquitted by a Rhode island jury after only about an hour and a half of deliberation. So the jury had no problem finding him innocent.
- [55:10]
B
Did you like him?
- [55:11]
A
Yeah, I did. He was funny. You can't imagine two people who are more different. My daughter who went and spent some time in England, she's a professional actor. And she spent time in Lambda, the London Academy of Music, whatever it is. And she spent some time with Klaas Van Bulow when she was there. I had dinner with him a couple of times. And she liked him too. So, you know, he was a very charming man. I could never be a close friend of his. We were too different. You know, I didn't. There are many of my clients I didn't like and had no association with. But he was one that I actually enjoyed being with.
- [55:49]
B
And what about Jeffrey Epstein? What was he like? Was he creepy or charming?
- [55:54]
A
No, he was not creepy at all. My wife saw through him immediately. My wife and my sons both saw through him immediately. Thought he was a fake. I didn't. I. You know, he was always conducting these academic seminars with famous people. And for example, he sat me next to George Church, the man who decoded the genome. I never, even though we had been at Harvard together. And I looked forward to these academic sessions where I would meet prominent people, one of the people who developed Microsoft and others. So I enjoyed my time with him. I had no idea what he was doing. He lived a completely secret life which he kept from Everybody. And so it shocked me when I learned about it. But then I became his lawyer and made the deal that people call the sweetheart deal. He hated the deal. He thought I was a terrible lawyer. He told Woody Allen that I was the worst lawyer in the world. He refused to pay me my legal fee.
- [56:52]
B
Really.
- [56:53]
A
Finally, we settled the case. But not, you know, we did not since he got out of prison. My relationship with him was very negative and he hated me. And so I think it's a sign of pride that he hated me. I'm glad I was hated by Jeffrey Epstein.
- [57:13]
B
Well, the other person who was hated by Jeffrey Epstein, of course, was Donald Trump. And yet that hasn't stopped Democrats and Trump haters to try and weaponize the whole Epstein investigation and his very suspicious death.
- [57:30]
A
When I was defending Epstein, I said to him, if you have any information on any prominent people. And I went through the list of prominent people, including Donald Trump, if you could turn any of these people in, I can help you get a better deal. And he categorically told me that he had nothing on Donald Trump at all, that Donald Trump had done nothing wrong whatsoever. So I am actually a witness to the fact that Jeffrey Epstein said that he had nothing. He had something. Only one person, he said to me, don't worry about him. I have so much on him that he'll never turn against me.
- [58:05]
B
Wow. And is that someone who people talk about publicly as.
- [58:10]
A
Yeah, but he's not a political figure. He's just a well known person. Yeah.
- [58:16]
B
Interesting. And do you think Epstein was. I mean, there are conspiracy theories, you know, wild. But I mean, maybe some of them are true, that he was being run by an intelligence service, either our own, either the CIA or foreign one. Mossad.
- [58:34]
A
I know for a categorical fact that isn't the case. How do I know? I asked him specifically, I said, if you had any connection to any intelligence agencies, I can get you a better deal. And he said, Alan had no connection. What intelligence agency? Whatever. Hire me or rely on me. And I confirm that with the Mossad. So there's no truth to any Mossad connection. I don't believe there's any truth to any CIA connection. I was ambivalent about his suicide, but now I'm told that the New York Times has information that Jeffrey Epstein may have left a suicide note before his first attempt to commit suicide. I haven't seen the note, but I'd be interested in seeing that because I had some doubts about whether he had a motive to commit suicide or not. Of course he would never Want to live the rest of his life in prison. He was a hedonist.
- [59:26]
B
Interesting. And do you think that he did. Was blackmailing people? That he did have a house full of cameras, as we're told, yet the footage has gone missing?
- [59:37]
A
No, if it existed, there was one camera and it was installed by the Palm beach police. What happened is somebody had stolen money from him and a gun from him, and he had the Palm beach police install a camera near his desk. And I actually caught the guy and got him fired. I don't know whether he went to jail or not, I forget, but I don't believe there were cameras. I hope there were cameras in every single room. I would love to have been photographed because it would be the most boring thing, me and my wife room. But, but I was hoping they would pick photographs or, or, or video cameras. I, I don't think there were. I don't think he was blackmailing people, though. I think he was interested in collecting information about people and maybe he would have used it to defend himself. But I don't think he ever affirmatively blackmailed people. Let's remember another thing too. He was not a pedophile. I have no information about any pedophiles in the Epstein circle. A pedophile, medically is somebody who is interested in prepubescent people. Prepubescent people, 10, 11, 12. That was not his modus operandi. He was interested in 16 year olds, 17, 18 year olds. That's a terrible thing. By the way, it's legal in France. It's legal in many parts of Europe. So it's hard to say you're a pedophile in America, but not in France. Pedophile is not a legal term. It's a medical, psychological term. So I don't think there's a real case for people being called pedophiles, although everybody calls them a pedophile. I also don't believe there was any trafficking going on. What happened is he made it known to the young people in Palm beach, if you come and give me a massage, you get $250. And many of them came back over and over and over again, collected the $250 and then got $500 if they recruited other people to come and give him more massages. And then there was this third category, a very large category of women who never met Jeffrey Epstein, never laid eyes on him. And their corrupt lawyers in Palm beach would go to them and say, how old are you? Oh, you were about that age when. Yeah, why don't you just Say you gave Epstein a massage. We'll collect $50,000 for you. And they did.
- [61:53]
B
Right.
- [61:54]
A
So I would love to see a thorough investigation of every single claimed survivor and victim and find out how many there really were. There were plenty. There were plenty of 16 and 17 year olds. I know of at least one who genuinely were exploited. Those are the real victims. But if you're 25 and you came back over and over and over and over again for the $250, hard to call you a victim or a survivor. Although some of these people are on television. For example, the Farmer sisters are on television. Lying, lying, lying. They say, oh, they told the FBI that they were abused by Epstein. No, the FBI reports are clear. One of them told the FBI that Epstein had stolen pictures from her of her sister. And the FBI didn't investigate? Of course not. The FBI doesn't investigate stolen pictures. But as far as the records show, there were no claims that the Farmer sisters ever claimed they were raped or abused by Epstein. And yet they're on CNN every other day making these claims without ever being corrected. And I would like to see the whole truth come out in Epstein. It's a terrible truth. What he did was terrible, but it's not nearly as bad as the way it's been portrayed by cnn, by the New York Times, and by the Democratic party. Hey, Bill O'Reilly here. Please check out my new interview series. We'll do it Live. Each Thursday, I sit down with the most influential people in America for a no spin chat, no script. Anything could happen. You can find. We'll do it live on Billorilly.com, youTube or wherever you download your podcast.
- [63:36]
B
Every major story has a version the news gives you and then a version that's actually true. If you're a critical thinker, if you're somebody who's not tribal, if you're somebody who just wants the facts so you can make your own decisions, Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels is the show for you. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. That just because they see it as a weapon to use against Donald Trump, because Donald Trump knew him as. So did many people in New York at that time, Palm beach, the media
- [64:09]
A
is terrified to be called victim shamers. And so anybody who says they're a victim or survivor gets to be treated as a victim or survivor. Nobody give you an example. So they release the information, the records. And one of the records says it has a blank name. It says redacted name, adult, adult, redacted name, claims that she gave Oral sex to Donald Trump and that she bit Donald Trump's penis. Okay, her name is redacted. She's an adult. She's accusing Donald Trump. It's a totally false story. Why don't we know her name? Why isn't she being investigated for lying to federal officials? The same disclosure says blank, blank, blank. An adult claims she gave a massage to Alan Dershowitz. Not a sexual massage, a massage to Alan Dershowitz on Jeffrey Epstein's airplane. I never got a massage from anybody on Jeffrey Epstein's airplane. She's lying, yet my name is revealed. That's fine. But her name is redacted and it says she's an adult. Why is she being protected? Why are perjurers, felons, liars, names being protected? That's why I want everything out there. I want every single name, not the children. If there are any people who are below the age of consent, fine, keep their name secret. But anyone who's an adult and making an accusation, their name. Under American law, every accused person is entitled to confront their accuser. And Donald Trump can't confront his accuser when his accuser's name is redacted, even though it's clear that the story is totally false. So I want everything out.
- [65:57]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's totally fair. And I know that you ended up having to threaten a lawsuit against someone and you got a complete exoneration, so she withdrew everything.
- [66:07]
A
But it cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve that. Just result, finally.
- [66:15]
B
And, and the reputational damage.
- [66:18]
A
I was sitting in front of Lincoln center with my wife the other night. We were just coming from going to Symphony hall and we're having a nice cup of coffee and this guy comes over to me and starts yelling, me pedophile, pedophile, pedophile. And you know, dirty Jew, pedophile, dirty Jew. And I got up and I started to clench my fists. I'm 87 years old. I was gonna take him on. My wife grabbed me and made me sit down and he ran away. He ran away from this 87 year old man by clenching his fists. So, but you know, the reputational harm is still there, even though I'm totally, completely, unequivocally innocent. Let me state without any unequivocal case, that from the day I met Jeffrey Epstein, I have never touched in a sexual way, kissed, been with, had sexual contact with any woman other than my wife. Period. End of sentence, end of paragraph, end of book. That's the truth. I've said it under oath. And yet people don't believe it because I'm somebody who knew Jeffrey Epstein. Yes, I did.
- [67:23]
B
Well really, it's probably because you're somebody who defended Donald Trump and therefore any slur is fine.
- [67:30]
A
After I defended Trump, suddenly people started accusing me of being all these terrible
- [67:36]
B
things and New York just to finish up your hometown, Donald Trump's hometown, he's from Queens, you're from Brooklyn. Do you think it will survive Zora Mamdani, for those of us who haven't been around for so long?
- [67:52]
A
I think so. I think Mamdanme is a one term mayor, but who knows? It's certainly the worst for it. But it's not only Montbaume, it's the Upper west side of New York is going to nominate for the Democratic seat in Congress. Horrible anti American, anti Israel, anti decency person. And that's going happening in Brooklyn, it's happening all over. So I worry about New York and I worry about California, I worry about the United States. I worry about Adam Schiff who started out as a decent congressman, now who's turned indecent and voting all the wrong ways because he puts his finger to the wind and he sees how his constituents are, are supporting what they're supporting. And so I'm very worried about the future of America. But as long as I have the energy, I'm going to fight for this decency injustice as I have for the last 60 something years.
- [68:49]
B
So last question. Actually, second last, if you put in your crystal ball, how do you see the midterms and the 2028 presidential election going?
- [68:59]
A
Well, the midterms generally go to the opposing party. So I think the Republicans will lose control of the House and I think it's hard to predict the Senate. I'm certainly hoping that they lose, that the Republicans win Maine and win Michigan. But I can't predict the Senate presidency. We have no idea who's going to run.
- [69:23]
B
Is there anyone decent in the Democrat field?
- [69:26]
A
I can't see anyone so far. I don't see anybody who's on the list who I would right now vote for or want to see in the presidency. Rubio is terrific as a Republican. I like him very much and I would be very happy to see him as president. And there are other Republicans as well that I would prefer to see over the current slate of Democrats. If the Democrats come up with some magical character. Let's remember that by this time in the election cycle nobody had heard of Bill Clinton, heard of Jimmy Carter. And so you never know the Democrats could come up with, with somebody maybe and you know, governor, Kentucky, the governor of Pennsylvania. There, there are potential people who could, who could run. But right now it looks like the Democrats will probably nominate somebody from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party and I will campaign against them.
- [70:27]
B
Do you think Joe Biden was a good president?
- [70:30]
A
I like Joe Biden. I've always liked him. I've known him for years and years and years and years. I first met him through Ted Kennedy when he was a very young senator. I've always liked him. I think he overstayed and when he announced he was going to be a one term president, I voted for him and thought he'd be a very good one term president. But by the end of his term, I think his age was catching up with him.
- [70:59]
B
Yeah. And last question. I promise this is the last the secrets of success. You've seen lots of successful people in your life and your career, lots of good people and bad people. What are the secrets of success and a happy life? I guess.
- [71:16]
A
Well, first, success and a happy life don't always go together. I've been very fortunate. I've had a wonderful wife, wonderful children, wonderful parents and you know, I've had a other than other than it's like other than that. Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show? Other than losing my son Elon, which is more than an other than my life has been pretty good. And I did help keep my son alive for many, many more years than the doctors had said he'd be alive. But that's a loss I'll never get over until the day I die. So that's been a terrible, terrible disaster in my life. But professionally my life has been good. It's been filled with success. I've managed to never do anything for money but accumulate some because I've represented some people. But I've always lived my life on principle. And I think the secret of success is to keep busy all the time and to strike an appropriate balance between your work and your personal life and probably to put your personal life and your family first. But I'm writing another book which I'm just about through, but it won't be out for a year or so it's called. It ain't necessarily my guide to life as a skeptic and skeptic about everything. And I'm skeptical about every aspect of life. And I think being a skeptic and always having an open mind and always asking hard questions is probably a good attitude to have. Sometimes I envy. I start the book with a conversation I had with Justice Scalia In Jerusalem, right near where the crucifixion occurred. And I said to him, nino, you're one of the smartest people I know. Do you actually believe that Jesus arose from his crypt? Absolutely. Absolutely. He said, to the depth of my soul. And he said, alan, I pity you because you have trouble believing. For you, everything has to be proved. And you're a skeptic. And I'm lucky that I have belief. And he may be right. People with deep, deep belief and lack of skepticism about things like religion may be happier and better off. But I have no choice. I was born a skeptic and I will die a skeptic.
- [73:39]
B
So you don't believe in God?
- [73:40]
A
I'm a skeptic. I mean, if I get to heaven and there's God, I say, wow, that's great. You don't object? I had some doubts. Do you? You gave me a brain to doubt. And I'm sure God would say no, no. As I told Thomas Jefferson back In the late 17th century, people ought to use their brain to doubt everything, even God. Jefferson wrote a letter to his nephew, doubt God, but in the end, come to whatever conclusions your brain brings you to. So, you know, that's my attitude. I hope there's a God. I hope there's a heaven, and I hope that I deserve a place in it. But I'm not counting on it. I'm a skeptic.
- [74:20]
B
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Professor Dershowitz.
- [74:24]
A
I really enjoyed. It was like a law school seminar having a conversation with you.
- [74:28]
B
Oh, thank you. I really enjoyed it, too. Thanks for joining podforce One. I'm Miranda Devine. Please hit the like and subscribe buttons. And most importantly, please leave a comment below. I do. Read them and we'll be back with more at next Podforce 1 episode.