Pod Force One: Doug Burgum on Energy, China, Climate, and American Power

Episode Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Miranda Devine, New York Post
Guest: Doug Burgum, Secretary of the Interior

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Miranda Devine sits down with Doug Burgum, Secretary of the Interior, during the Energy and AI Summit in Pittsburgh. Burgum, known as the administration's “Drill, Baby, Drill” champion, discusses the aggressive push for U.S. energy dominance, competition with China, reversing Biden-era climate policies, and leveraging America’s vast natural resource assets. The conversation weaves Burgum’s personal history with his business background and political ascent, focusing on pragmatic approaches to national security, energy policy, business innovation, and societal issues like addiction.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Energy Dominance and the NEDC

• NEDC Formation and Mission

  • President Trump established the National Energy Dominance Council (NEDC) via executive order for a "whole of government" approach to energy.
  • The council focuses on maximizing domestic energy capability—including oil, gas, coal, nuclear, and geothermal—to reduce reliance on intermittent renewables and foreign supply chains, particularly from China. (00:34–02:27)

  Quote:

  "President Trump formally creating by executive order the Energy National Energy Dominance Council... we needed a whole of government approach to reverse the prior administration—the Biden administration..."
  — Doug Burgum (00:34)

2. Energy Policy as National Security

• Global Competition and Vulnerability to China

  • Highlights China’s rapid expansion in coal power and ability to buy up discounted oil from sanctioned states.
  • Emphasizes that energy independence equates to both prosperity at home and peace abroad, tying energy directly to national security. (02:27–03:26)

  Quote:

  "China is building coal-fired power stations at the rate of one a week… they’ve permitted over 100 gigawatts of coal in the last 12 months…"
  — Doug Burgum (02:35)

3. Critique of Biden’s Climate and Energy Policies

• Strategic Petroleum Reserve & Federal Land Restrictions

  • Criticizes President Biden for depleting the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to manage political optics before midterms.
  • Argues that federal restrictions killed trillions in national asset value and undermined American energy and materials security. (03:26–05:22)

  Quote:

  "Joe Biden turned the Strategic Petroleum Reserve into his own personal political petroleum reserve."
  — Doug Burgum (03:45)

4. America’s Untapped Natural Resources

• Asset-Based Approach to National Debt

  • Burgum argues that the U.S. “balance sheet” could easily outmuscle the national debt if resources were strategically developed.
  • Advocates for sustainable, responsible extraction to maximize both federal revenue and strategic independence. (05:22–07:07)

  Quote:

  "If Department of the Interior—500 million acres of land, 700 million acres of subsurface—were a company, it would be the largest balance sheet in the world."
  — Doug Burgum (05:35)

5. Land Management and Wildfires

• Regulatory Policies & Forest Fires

  • Connects modern wildfire disasters to restrictive environmental regulations and unmanaged fuel loads stemming from the Clinton era and Spotted Owl campaigns.
  • Advocates increased timber harvesting, private sector involvement, and coordinated federal firefighting efforts. (07:07–10:56)

  Quote:

  "By shutting down our forests, we killed our position in the timber milling industry and killed rural communities… uncontrolled fires consume more of our asset base."
  — Doug Burgum (07:22, 09:05)

6. America’s Critical Minerals & Decoupling from China

• Accelerated Permitting & Domestic Production

  • The Department of Interior is expediting mining permits for critical minerals, especially rare earth elements and copper, to reduce U.S. vulnerability.
  • Cites direct federal investments and new mining projects, including uranium and rare earths in Nevada and Arizona. (10:56–12:52)

  Quote:

  "We've taken the entire periodic table, we've mapped it... for the top 20 most critical for US defense and automaking, 85% of the processing is being done by China."
  — Doug Burgum (11:11)

7. Bringing Business Innovation to Government

• Federal Inefficiency and AI Potential

  • Details eye-popping inefficiencies in basic federal processes, contrasting them with private sector practices.
  • Advocates for improved government tech systems and redeployment of talent toward work with direct public benefit. (13:52–16:55)

  Quote:

  "Thousands of employees spending two hours a week manually entering expenses… 35 years after the private sector solved this."
  — Doug Burgum (15:27)

8. Nonprofits, Grants, and Federal Accountability

• NGO Accountability

  • Describes a data-driven push to uncover how federal grants are distributed, including finding NGOs almost totally dependent on government funding and carrying high overhead costs. (16:55–19:15)

  Quote:

  "There were some of these grant NGOs where we were 99% of their revenue… If you're more than 80% of a subsidiary’s revenue in the private sector, you’re a wholly owned subsidiary."
  — Doug Burgum (18:22)

Personal Journey & Leadership Insights

9. Roots and Entrepreneurial Mindset

• Family, Pioneering Spirit, & First-Hand Energy Innovation
  • Burgum recounts his family’s North Dakota roots, their agricultural and electrical innovations, and how that legacy instilled values of hard work and community resilience. (19:15–24:36)

10. Tragedy and Early Business Ventures

• Loss and Grit

  • Losing his father at 12 shaped his responsibility and entrepreneurial drive, from running a small newspaper and a chimney sweep business to his leap into tech and software. Memorable stories include pitching himself as a chimney sweep to get into Stanford’s MBA program. (24:36–33:38)

  Quote:

  "I was looking for a job where I could move up fast and always stay in the black."
  — Doug Burgum, on chimney sweeping (32:01)

11. From Tech Innovator to National Leader

• Building Great Plains Software and Microsoft Tenure
  • Mortgaged farmland to fund Great Plains Software, which grew from a 10-person startup in Fargo to a $1.1B acquisition by Microsoft.
  • Notes the team included future Microsoft leaders like Satya Nadella, emphasizing their small-town roots. (33:38–43:19)

12. Political Motivation and Systems Change

• Why Enter Politics
  • Returned to North Dakota to give back, first through philanthropy and local development, but realized systemic problems could only be solved through public office.
  • Unexpectedly won the governorship after entering as a long-shot, motivated by optimizing state spending and education. (47:18–50:16)

13. The 2024 Presidential Bid

• Policy Focus and Leadership
  • Ran for President to foreground energy, national security, and the economy—especially for states under pressure from federal restrictions.
  • Critiques the Biden administration’s regulatory onslaught, particularly on Western states, and frames Trump-era policy as a “breeze at our back” for energy and prosperity. (50:16–52:31)

14. First Lady’s Recovery Advocacy

• Personal Recovery Story and Policy Impact

  • Catherine Burgum’s battle and recovery from addiction became a platform for statewide criminal justice and healthcare reform, emphasizing removing stigma and focusing on recovery. (52:31–54:18)

  Quote:

  "If you think it's a moral failing, then you can cure it with longer sentences."
  — Doug Burgum (54:18)

Notable & Memorable Moments

• Renaming the Gulf of Mexico

  • Burgum coordinated the official renaming to "Gulf of America" from Air Force One with President Trump’s signature, a media-savvy moment intended to assert American sovereignty. (43:58–47:10)

  Quote:

  "We had the declaration, we're holding... the first map that had Gulf of America on it. The pilot came on and said, 'Attention, everyone... you're now looking at the Gulf of America.'"
  — Doug Burgum (45:38)

• Business Philosophy on Success

  • On the keys to success—humility, curiosity, courage, and gratitude—helping innovators and public servants impact society beyond just financial achievement. (55:21–59:00)

  Quote:

  "Humility drives curiosity, and curiosity leads to innovation... Then you have to have the courage to take it. The last thing is gratitude."
  — Doug Burgum (55:21)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• NEDC Formation & Energy Dominance: 00:34–02:27
• Energy as National Security & China: 02:27–03:26
• Strategic Petroleum Reserve Critique: 03:26–05:22
• American Resource Asset Approach: 05:22–07:07
• Forest Management, Wildfires, and Timber: 07:07–10:56
• Mining, Critical Minerals & Decoupling from China: 10:56–12:52
• Business Innovation in Government: 13:52–16:55
• NGO Accountability & Federal Spending: 16:55–19:15
• Family, Early Life, Entrepreneurship: 19:15–33:38
• Tech Revolution—Great Plains & Microsoft: 33:38–43:19
• Gulf of America Renaming Story: 43:58–47:10
• Entering Politics & North Dakota Governorship: 47:18–50:16
• Presidential Run & Policy Focus: 50:16–52:31
• First Lady’s Advocacy on Addiction: 52:31–54:18
• Secrets to Success—Personal Philosophy: 55:21–59:00

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, personal, and driven by a mix of policy pragmatism, frontier optimism, and business realism. Devine keeps the tone friendly and conversational, encouraging Burgum's storytelling and reflective insights while probing the intersection of business, policy, and personal motivation.

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