Exposing Biden’s Border Lies with ICE’s Tom Homan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pod Force One – "Exposing Biden’s Border Lies with ICE’s Tom Homan"

Release Date: June 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of Pod Force One, New York Post columnist Miranda Devine engages in a candid and revealing conversation with Tom Homan, the Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), often referred to as the "White House Border Czar." The discussion delves deep into the Biden administration's immigration policies, contrasting them sharply with the measures implemented during the Trump era. Below is a detailed summary of their extensive dialogue.

---

1. Reinstatement of Trump-Era Immigration Policies

Miranda Devine opens the conversation by congratulating Homan on his swift actions to close the border, hinting at impending challenges related to deportations.

Tom Homan responds by emphasizing the significance of restoring policies from the Trump administration:

"President Trump, first of all, his executive orders were game changers... The remain in Mexico is the biggest game changer." ([00:57])

Homan credits these policies for enabling Border Patrol agents to effectively enforce the law, moving away from roles he describes as akin to "tourist agents or Uber drivers."

2. Critique of Biden’s Border Management

Devine questions why President Biden would deliberately "unsecure" the border, suggesting symbolic gestures over substantive policy.

Homan vehemently argues that Biden’s actions were intentional:

"Joe Biden is the first president, in the history of this nation, who came into office and unsecured a border on purpose." ([02:24])

He details how previous administrations, including Obama’s, took steps to secure the border, but Biden reversed these measures, leading to unprecedented illegal immigration and national security vulnerabilities.

3. Political Motivations Behind Open Borders

Devine probes into whether Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas or President Biden made the deliberate decision to open the border. Homan asserts ultimate responsibility lies with Biden:

"Like the buck stops with Biden..." ([04:15])

He suggests political motivations, positing that allowing more illegal immigrants could translate into future Democratic voters:

"They thought there are all these millions of people going to be future Democratic voters." ([06:37])

Homan also links the opening of the border to changes in census counting, which Democrats could leverage for increased political representation.

4. Humanitarian Facade and Hidden Threats

The discussion shifts to the Biden administration's use of programs like CHNV and CBP1 to categorize illegal immigrants as asylum seekers, which Homan deems a "shell game."

"They put the same population of illegal aliens south of the border into two different buckets... it was a shell game." ([08:26])

He highlights the misuse of asylum claims, where 90% of applicants historically do not qualify, yet policies allow their entry without proper vetting, exacerbating national security risks.

5. Impact on Children and Human Trafficking

Devine recounts observations of alleged misrepresentation of adult immigrants as children, to which Homan confirms:

"Yeah, in many, many situations. Absolutely did." ([12:43])

Homan discusses the plight of approximately 300,000 missing children under the Biden administration, many victims of sex trafficking and forced labor:

"We rescued some victims of sex trafficking. We rescued some victims on forced labor." ([26:15])

6. Personal Sacrifices and Motivations

Delving into his personal life, Homan shares the emotional toll of his role, including death threats and the strain on his family:

"I saw so much tragedy in my life in doing this job... That's why I came out of retirement during Trump." ([18:17])

He describes a strong familial upbringing in West Carthage, New York, underscoring a lifelong commitment to law enforcement and national security.

7. Endorsement of Donald Trump

Homan offers a fervent endorsement of former President Donald Trump, lauding his leadership and policies:

"I think he's the greatest president in my lifetime because he keeps his promises." ([45:39])

He contrasts Trump’s commitment to border security with Biden’s alleged negligence, portraying Trump as a patriot dedicated to restoring America's safety and integrity.

8. Current Challenges and Future Goals

Addressing ongoing obstacles, Homan acknowledges legal and societal pushback against ICE operations but remains resolute:

"We're not going to protest all you want. It's unfortunate, but we're going to continue doing what we're doing." ([30:12])

His ultimate goal is the complete eradication of illegal and criminal threats from the U.S. border:

"I want to retire when every illegal alien, criminal threat, public safety threat, national security threats are eradicated from this country." ([48:22])

9. Concluding Remarks

Miranda Devine summarizes the gravity of the national security issues discussed, highlighting the stakes involved in border management and the contrasting administrative approaches.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Pod Force One provides a stark and critical perspective on the Biden administration's border policies through the lens of a seasoned ICE official. Tom Homan's passionate discourse underscores his belief in the necessity of stringent border security measures for the safety and future of the United States, while also painting a dire picture of the current administration's immigration strategy. For listeners seeking an unvarnished view of America's immigration challenges and the political dynamics at play, this episode offers a thorough and provocative exploration.

---

For more insightful discussions with influential figures shaping America's future, tune into Pod Force One every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Miranda Devine]

Welcome to the Pod Force One podcast, where we talk to some of the world's most powerful people. This week, we are coming to you from Joe Biden's fake Oval Office for an interview with Tom Homan, who is in charge of implementing the President's immigration agenda. He has one of the longest titles in Washington. He is the Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations at the the U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement. Most of us just call him the White House Border Czar. Tom Homan, ICE Czar, Border Czar, thank you so much for sparing some time to speak with us at a really important time in America's history. And congratulations for so quickly closing the border. But I guess now the. The really tough stuff comes with the deportations.

[Tom Homan]

President Trump, first of all, his executive orders were game changers. And we knew that coming back in the second administration, the remain in Mexico, the third save country agreements ending catch release, all those weren't the wall. And the President came back and reinstituted those executive orders, which, again, were game changers. The remain in Mexico is the biggest game changer. And that along with the men and women of Border Patrol, you know, finally getting to do their job, rather than acting as tourist agents or Uber drivers, they actually got to force the law. Ending catch release was huge. So we simply enforced the law. Right, and didn't catch a release. Entering this country illegally is a crime. But the federal statute says you show up our border, proper documentation, enter, and you enter illegally, you shall be detained. That's what the federal statute says. You shall be detained. So we're just enforcing the law. We're not releasing people.

[Miranda Devine]

Joe Biden could have done that during the last four years. And he pretended that he needed legislation. He blamed Donald Trump. I mean, we're sitting in this crazy room, which is the fake Oval Office that he had built for himself. For what reason? I mean, to me, it sort of seems symbolic of his presidency. What do you make of why Joe Biden did what he did? Why did he fling open the border like no other president in history has done and then lie about it?

[Tom Homan]

I've worked for six presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan. Every president I ever worked for took steps to secure the border. Even Clinton. Obama took some steps. No one is more successful than President Trump. His success was unprecedented. But Joe Biden, I've said this many times. Joe Biden is the first president, history of this nation who came into office and unsecured a border on purpose because we handed him the most secure border in my lifetime. And he wasn't incompetence wasn't mismanagement. This is by design. They opened it. They meant to open it and knew exactly what they were doing. And why do I say that? Because when Joe Biden was vice president under Barack Obama, Alejandro Mayorkas was deputy secretary. We had a surge at the border under Obama. How do we stop it? We built detention centers. We built family residential centers. We detained people long enough to see a judge. Took about 40 days. 90% lost their case. That's the average. 90%. People claim asylum, don't qualify. 90% lost their cases. We put them on airplanes, send them home. The numbers tank. What did they do when they became the president and secretary? They could bring opposite. They weren't detaining him, they were releasing them, weren't making him see a judge. And at the same time, we had historic illegal immigration on the border. Alejandro Mayorkas told ice, you can't arrest somebody for simply being here illegally. They gotta be convicted of a serious crime or you can't target them for arrest. So they knowingly did the complete opposite of what they know worked earlier.

[Miranda Devine]

Was it Mayorkas or was it Biden? And Mayorkas was just following his orders. Who decided deliberately to open the border and allow in how many now, how many illegal aliens have come in?

[Tom Homan]

Well, like the buck stops with Biden, but who knows who is, you know, pulling his cord? Because I think we all can agree he wasn't fully here. But. And everybody asked me, why would they do such a thing? Alihanda Mallorca is like, people say, well, you can't really beat up him. He's following orders. That's garbage. Come on, he's the secretary of homeland Security.

[Miranda Devine]

And you watched him in Congress when he was testifying. He was very hostile to Republicans.

[Tom Homan]

Well, people need to remember he's the secretary of homeland Security. He knew every day, he knew we're having people from 180 different countries coming across that border, many from special interest countries. He knew that this was a national security vulnerability. So even if he has following orders, if he had any integrity at all, he would have stood up and sounded the alarm, said, I can no longer do this. I'm the Secretary of homeland Security. My number one responsibility is protection of homeland. I can't do it with an open border. Can't do it. So, you know, people want to say, well, give him a pass because he was following orders. No, I don't give him a pass. His secretary, Homeland Security needed to act like it. He had a responsibility. He took an oath.

[Miranda Devine]

You knew him, didn't you, you worked with him.

[Tom Homan]

I worked with him under Obama administration and he went down the streets with me on criminal operations. The complete 180 of what I saw when he was deputy secretary.

[Miranda Devine]

Why?

[Tom Homan]

I have no idea. I have no idea. Either he put a good show on during the Obama years or he changed 180. But even Joe Biden, he was Vice President Obama In FY12, we removed 409,000 aliens, a record. So this Biden administration just did a complete 180. And it was, it was again, they created the biggest national security vulnerability I've ever seen. And people always say, well, why would they open a border up? Well, the only thing I can think of is they saw a future political benefit from opening that border. Right. I think part of it was they thought there are all these millions of people going to be future Democratic voters. But I also think when Biden came in and signed over 90 executive orders abolishing everything we did on Trump 45, he also overturned the Trump census rule which says basically illegal aliens be counted in the census. So the man's illegal aliens being released in sanctuary cities like New York will be counted in the next census. Which is going to mean what? It means more seats in house for the dens.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Tom Homan]

So they certainly saw a political benefit. There's no other reason. Because every Democrat I asked this question to, they can't answer me. What's the downside unless drugs come across? What's the downside unless sex trafficking, women and children. What's the downside unless people terrorist was coming across? What's the downside unless gang members and criminals coming across? What is the downside on a secure border?

[Miranda Devine]

Well, it killed him politically in the end, didn't it?

[Tom Homan]

That is the only thing they can get. And they'll never admit that, but they know that they see a future political benefit. That's why, look, you didn't get one Democratic vote on legislation to require voter id. I mean, it's obvious what they're doing. American people aren't stupid. I'm certainly not stupid.

[Miranda Devine]

So short term political death for them because it killed Biden's or if you know Kamala Harris's bid. But long term benefit for them demographically.

[Tom Homan]

I think they tried. They thought they were fooling the American people. I mean, Alejandro Mayorkas and Vice Vice President Harris was staying up on stage every day, said border secure. Then they say just before the election they fixed it. Right. The borders were way down. Again, lying to the American people. The border numbers weren't way down. They created two different buckets. The CHNV, Cuban, Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela program. Then they created CBP1 app. So they took the same population of illegal aliens south of the border, they put thousands of them into the CHNV program. They put thousand of them in the CBP app every day claiming they're legal pathways. No, they weren't. They created two buckets so they could say they're not illegal entries. They came in through this legal pathway. So it was a shell game.

[Miranda Devine]

So illegal aliens, they re badged them as asylum seekers or somehow legal through these programs and then lied and said the numbers were down.

[Tom Homan]

Right. They said it was a legal pathway, but it wasn't. Come on. They abused asylum. I'm not an attorney, but I, I know the silent rule says there was no case by case review based on significant details of each significant case and why. It's a significant public benefit. They never did it. When the President stands on stage, they're not going to bring 30,000amonth to CHNB. Where'd you get that number from? Where's the case by case analysis on this? Right, yeah. So look, they created these two buckets, call them legal pathways, which they weren't. That's why it's being litigated in court. But if you add the illegal entries plus the CHNV, plus the CBP1 app, the numbers didn't go down. They just created these buckets and saying, well, illegal entries went down.

[Miranda Devine]

But it's the same scam all over the world. You have the people smugglers coach their illegal aliens to pretend that they're asylum seekers. And I mean, obviously the government ought to have been aware of that. But they went along with it and encouraged it.

[Tom Homan]

Absolutely. You know, you go 10 years back and look at immigration court data, it says that nearly nine out of 10 people who claim asylum out of a border will end up with order, removal. They're not escaping fear and persecution from their home government because of race, religion or political affiliation or participation in a specific social group. They're coming here for a better life. They're coming there for a job. And I get that, but that's not asylum. So it will last decade or longer. 9 out of 10 on average don't qualify for asylum. But they still allowed them. They knew nine out of ten didn't qualify. They should have kept the Remain in Mexico program back in. You can still claim asylum, but you're going to wait in Mexico.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. And why did they put them into hotels that we were paying, you know, in New York, these four star hotels, $500 a night. Why did they do that instead of keeping them in ICE detention?

[Tom Homan]

Great question. It's had to do what we just talked about. They knew 9 out of 10 of them based on real data would not qualify for asylum. They get an order in Google and be sent home. And here's why they released them. There was thousands of empty ICE beds already paid for by the taxpayers, sitting empty at about $127 a night. They put, they left those beds empty and gave it to the NGOs and put them in the bed at 500 bucks a night. Why did they do that? Because they knew the system. Immigration court will prioritize those in detention, which means if you're in an ICE bed, you're going to get a hearing in less than 40 days. 9 out of 10 lose, they go on airplane, they're sent home. However, they also knew if they put them in a non detained docket with an NGO, their hearing's in three, five, seven years. What happens then? They still know nine out of 10 will fail. But what happens then? They're hoping for a democratic administration that can award these millions of people amnesty. They're playing the long game. This is their plan from the beginning. They played the long game and that's why they're so pissed off right now. Because we're removing records, numbers of them and we're ruining their plan. But they play the long game and I saw it from the very start what they're trying to do.

[Miranda Devine]

They were also flying them in. We were at New York Post, we went up to Westchester Airport and we were watching these flights that were coming from the border at 2, 3 in the morning, dislodging illegal aliens into buses and then shipping them around the Tri state area and depositing them in small numbers in various places. And the Biden administration was very secretive about that. They then told us that they were children, but I mean I watched them get off the plane and so did my photographer, night after night. And they were not children. They maybe a few of them might have been 17, 18, but they were mainly military aged males, you know, hairy males in their 20s. So was that part of the scam? Were they passing off illegal aliens as children who were really adults?

[Tom Homan]

Yeah, in many, many situations. Absolutely did. And you gotta remember through the CHMV program, they applying people from Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela straight in. But you know that like most of Venezuelans, they didn't come to Venezuela. They flew in from Ecuador and other countries. They left Venezuela years ago. So they weren't really Escaping fear and persecution. Venezuela, they're taking advantage of this giveaway program.

[Miranda Devine]

Why would we go to other countries when the border was already overwhelmed? Why would we go and pick them up in another country and fly them in?

[Tom Homan]

They want to overwhelm the system. Overwhelm the system because they knew there'd be millions of people that they thought would be in their corner in the future. They sold this country off for future political power. There is no other reason why you would open a border. Like I said, there's no downside in a secure border. There's only one reason you would do this, because you saw a future political benefit benefit in doing it.

[Miranda Devine]

Power, politics and the people behind the headlines. I'm Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist and the host of the brand new podcast podforce One. Every week I'll sit down for candid conversations with Washington's most powerful disruptors. Lawmakers, newsmakers and even the President of the United States. These are the leaders shaping the future of America and the world. Listen to podforce One with me, Miranda Devine, every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You don't want to miss an episode. I'm Catholic. I know you're Catholic. Joe Biden professed to be a Catholic and certainly tried to curry favour with Pope Francis. Do you think there might have been some sort of a, I don't know, trying to buy a ticket to heaven sort of attitude from Joe Biden by. He was always on the phone, he used to boast to Pope Francis, sort of being encouraged to open the border. Do you think there might have been an element of that? Because I know Pope Francis was very critical of Donald Trump when he came in and started closing the border. And you've been outspoken about that.

[Tom Homan]

I think the Pope's wrong, you know, former Pope, God rest his soul, but he questioned us enforcing immigration law, he questioned building the wall, when in fact he has a wall around the Vatican. And actually, if you go over that wall of the Vatican, the penalties for entering the Vatican illegally is much stiffer than our penalties are. Yeah, absolutely. So I wish, you know, I'll stick what I said the first time. I think he needs to spend time fixing the Catholic Church. As lifelong Catholic, he's got a lot of leave the board at us. But I don't know if President Biden was current favor or not. I mean, he claimed to be a Catholic, but so didn't Nancy Pelosi, who both supports killing babies. Yes, abortion. And I'm not going to judge him but as a Catholic, I mean, I think it's hard to be a Catholic claim to be a Catholic when you support abortion. I just, I know how you mix the two, but I don't know his discussion with the Pope, but the Pope was supportive of open borders. And that's one of the differences me and him had and what he doesn't understand, which I wish he sat down, talked to me for a little while. Secure border saves lives. It's about saving lives because right now, illegal crossings on the border are down 96%. Historic. There's been studies done by nonpartisan groups that say that up to 31% of women that make that journey through the cartels get sexually assaulted, they get raped, children get sexually assaulted. So if 31% admitted it, how many actually got sexually assaulted? Right. So when President Trump has illegal grace down 96%, when 96% less people are coming, how many women and children aren't being raped and sexually assaulted?

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Tom Homan]

How many children aren't drowning in the river? How many aliens are drowning in the river? How many pounds of fentanyl isn't getting into the country? Kill Americans when the borders 1% on the border and is closed. How many known sexual predators or gang members or people carrying fentanyl are coming across? I mean, secure border, save lives. And let me compare the Biden administration who says our policies are much more humane on the border because you open the border up. Right. Quarter million Americans dead from fentanyl. Historic number. Over 4000 aliens died making that journey that we know of. Historic record. A six fold increase in sex trafficking of women and children. A record number of people on terrorist watches across the border under Biden, 400 under Trump's first term, 14 in four years compared to his over 400.

[Miranda Devine]

Wow.

[Tom Homan]

So whose policy is more humane?

[Miranda Devine]

Yes.

[Tom Homan]

Biden's policy will kill Americans in record numbers. Killing aliens at record numbers and putting this country at a great national security vulnerability. You can't compare the two administrations. Secure borders save lives.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. And you've been doing this since 1984. You said you've worked for six presidents. What on earth possessed you to come back this time? I read somewhere that you woke up mad every day of Joe Biden's presidency. Was that it?

[Tom Homan]

You know, I got a long career. I started in 1984 and I've seen a lot of tragedy in my career. And I've stood back with tractor Taylor and 19 dead people who baked to death, including five year old boy. That changed me forever. I was in Operation Ice Storm in Phoenix, Arizona, where they're smuggling so many people that smuggling organizations are ripping each other off. Rather than ripping their drug loads off, they're ripping people off from each other because they're worth a lot of money. When an illegal alien couldn't pay his fee, you know, the organization agreed, well, we'll smuggle the United States for $5,000, get you to Chicago. Then when they got him in Phoenix out of loathouse, they call a relative up, say, okay, now you need to wire us the money, $10,000. And they said, well, we agreed to five. Well, it's 10 and you're going to pay it or we'll kill them. And they did. They would call relatives up. The relative listen on the phone and say, tortured and killed the relatives that were being smug in the country. I mean, I've talked to little girls. I say this all the time. You know, I'm young as nine. You get on your knees, you talk to a little girl. It was raped multiple times by sick members of the cartel. It's part of the passing of two nights. I've seen so much tragedy in my life in doing this job. I knew when Biden was president, I woke up every day, knew how many children died last night, how many women got raped last night, how many Americans going to die from fentanyl poisoning. How many more angel moms and dads am I going to meet? I met hundreds of them. Whose children you want to talk about? Family separations. They bury their children because they're killed by an illegal alien. I saw so much strategy, so I knew with its open borders, we're going to see more people die, more people getting raped, more drugs coming across, more sex trafficking. So, yeah, I woke up every day pissed off that any president would come into office and purposely unsecure the most secure border we ever had, knowing all these bad things would happen. So I came out of retirement during Trump 45. I actually, the day I retired, I got a phone call from John Kelly, who's the Secretary of Homeland Security. I know this is bad timing, but President, I can't stay and run the agency. This was ICE at the time. And I told him it was bad timing. I just retired. And he said, no, you didn't. Paperwork's on my desk. So they gave me a weekend to talk to my family and other people. And I came back after I was 45, proud to do it the second time. I've talked to the President a lot the last four years. You know, I was on out there doing events with him, talking about the devastation of our border. So I was the first person he called bringing back, which again, is a proud moment. But I was actually out to dinner with my wife and my phone rang and looked down. It says potus. And my wife says, oh, he's asking to come back, isn't he? So I walked outside and the first thing he said to me was, you've been bitching about it for four years. Welcome back and fix it. So how do you say no? Yeah, right. And even my wife said, you know, it's a huge pay cut for me because I was doing pretty good in the private sector. Even my wife said, had to go back. And this is kind of a jokingly, but it wasn't a joke at first. She said, you need to go back or we'll get divorced. I said, why would you say something like that? If you don't go back, you'll be waking up every day pissed off that you didn't go back. And I gotta live with four more years of being pissed off. So go back and do the job. So good woman. She's a trooper. But I didn't hesitate. Yes, I'm back and I'm glad to be back. And I'm surrounded by some of the smartest people. I mean, every morning at 10am I walk into a meeting. Steve Miller. People have their opinions of him. Steve Miller is brilliant. Probably the smartest man I've met in my entire life. Brilliant. The architect. I worked with a team up here at the White House who spent their entire career doing this work. No one longer than me. Of course, I'm the old guy. But everybody in that room is dedicated to this mission. And he brought in a great team. President Trump, he built a great team.

[Miranda Devine]

Well, he needs to, I guess, because he's got the judiciary against him, all the lawfare happening. There's whatever they can do to stop deportations. They're doing.

[Tom Homan]

Absolutely. They're not gonna stop us. I mean, they may slow us down a bit and put roadblocks up, but we're not going away. I'm not going. Look, I got hit pieces on me every day. They figure they say bad things about you, maybe you'll go away. I'm not going anywhere. I mean, I had a thousand protesters at my house in upstate New York, in my lake house. You're not going to shut me up. I'm not going away because I know how important it is to secure our border. I know that you can't have national security if you don't have border security. We need to know who's coming in, what's coming in, where it's coming in, why it's coming in, where it's going. Without that, you can't have strong national security. I think we're proving that right now during this Iran conflict, what the danger an open border is. So I'm glad to be back again. Got the most secure border in the history of this nation. We're arresting about three times the illegal alien criminals in this country that Joe Biden did. So that's going good. And we're finding thousands of missing children. Some are perfectly fine with their families. Some are more in sex trafficking, some were in forced labor. But we're going to find every one of these kids. President Trump made a promise.

[Miranda Devine]

We won't keep that promise finding those children. I mean, when we were following some of these buses that came off, took the illegal aliens off the planes, they were being dropped off in, like, parking lots on the side of the freeway. And then cars were coming up and picking up the people. No one was vetting them. No one was even looking at the license plates. There were kind of staff contractors, I guess, standing around, but nobody was asked who they were when they picked up these alleged children.

[Tom Homan]

Well, here's what they did under the Biden administration. You had the secretary of hhs, but Sarah and I saw him on stage several times bragging how quick we release on a company and each other. Oh, we released them very quick. They're not in our custody very long. And I knew that was a problem because I knew they weren't property vetting, because the whole administration, even on the board of mortgage agents, Borgil agents, were under orders. Process quick release quick because there's no overcrowding, nothing to see here. Got a secure border. It wasn't until Bill Melusion was down there and got the. The video of the 5,000 Haitians on their bridge. Yes, that was a bad day for the administration. So ever since then, it's all been about optics, optics of the problem. They didn't care about the invasion itself. It was the optics. What are the American people going to see? So border patrols under orders, process quick release quick. They released many people before the vetting union came back. If they're from a special interest alien country, I know that because whistleblowers called me and the children. Same thing. If there's no overcrowding in the ORR facilities, then we can say the border's secure. So they didn't properly vet. We did DNA testing in Trump Torp.

[Miranda Devine]

45 to see if that Related.

[Tom Homan]

If that were really we found in some of the pilots we did with DNA testing as high as 30% of the families weren't families. No relatives at all. They're being trafficked.

[Miranda Devine]

So where did the kids come from? Were they kidnapped or did the parents volunteer them?

[Tom Homan]

It's a mix. I mean a lot of parents paid a spunk organization and swung her kids up here. Some of these children were trafficked. We know HSI had several investigations where a child was rented by the criminal cartel to an adult male, female cross the border because the family unit gonna be released right away when you're done, you get send the kid back. We rent them.

[Miranda Devine]

And what happens to those children when they're here?

[Tom Homan]

Well, that's why we're out looking for them. There was like 300,000 missing children under the last administration we're all looking for now because again we found thousands of them.

[Miranda Devine]

300,000.

[Tom Homan]

Some of the children were we found with their family, perfectly safe. They just didn't respond to call ins. They went and took off because they didn't want to face the consequences of immig. Well, we rescued some victims of sex trafficking. We rescued some victims on forced labor. We found children working on ranches and chicken farms. No, not going to school, but enslaved labor in the United States of America. So that was the whole nexus last administration.

[Miranda Devine]

And sex traffic to pedophiles?

[Tom Homan]

Well, absolutely, absolutely. We found some in sex trafficking. We just, I think two weeks ago we rescued a 14 year old that was already pregnant living with adult men. It's just if you go to New York City now you go, you know, in areas New York City, you'll see a lot of young ladies out. I just met with NYPD and talked about the sex traffic in New York City. And the current mayor, Mayor Adams, he's all about public safety. He doesn't want to be an immigration officer. I don't want to be an immigration officer. That's leave that task. But he does want to rescue children. There's been sex trafficking, forced labor. He does want to remove illegal anti zoro significant public safety threat. Of course he's taking out hate from that from the left. But we hope NYPD helps us find some of these kids because they know the area better than we do. They know the neighborhoods. You know, they have plenty of informants. So we're hoping NYPD will help us find these kids. Well, every PD helpers find this kid. We're out there looking every day.

[Miranda Devine]

You're not getting much help in Los Angeles and there have Been so many attacks on ICE officers and these big riots that are happening.

[Tom Homan]

You know, la. The story that doesn't get out is, why were we there? I'll tell you why we're there. I went out there on a Wednesday to start the operation. We were serving three criminal restaurants, criminal search warrants on a couple locations. It was a criminal investigation, having to deal with money laundering, tax evasion and customs wrong, where millions of dollars of unclaimed property was brought into the United States and no tariffs are paid on it, and millions of dollars. And we know that the garment district there is strong suspicion that some of that funding is sent to Mexico and Colombia to fund cartel activity. Cartels are involved. So it was a criminal operation, a criminal investigation, criminal search warrant. But right away, the left went nuts. ISIS doing an immigration raid, and they came out in force. We did do criminal operations on top of that operation. We were targeting at large criminal, illegal aliens, rapists, murderers, people that were illegal in the United States, that were convicted of murder. We had all these people, but no one wanted to talk about that. Everybody talk about the racist heist, even members of Congress and Governor Newsom and Mayor Bass. It's all about the racist heist. Alex Padilla, the truth was, look at who we arrested. Look at the warrants we served and why we served. We're trying to shut down cartel activity which is killing Americans. We're trying to take the worst of words off the streets of la. You would think the mayor and the governor and Padilla and the rest of them would say, God bless you, thank you for making our state safer. Because every criminal threat we take off the streets of LA makes that city more safe. So I said it again. We're not going to protest all you want. It's unfortunate, but we're going to continue doing what we're doing. We have teams out in LA today, we'll have teams out in LA tomorrow. We're going to keep doing what we're doing. You're not going to stop us.

[Miranda Devine]

And Kristi Noem was their secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. She's up on stage giving a talk. And Alex Padilla, this Californian politician, Democrat, basically lurches forward and then gets arrested and he turns himself into a martyr, crying in Congress about the heavy treatment.

[Tom Homan]

He's pathetic.

[Miranda Devine]

Why are they doing that?

[Tom Homan]

He knew exactly what he was doing. Let's make a scene. Let me get on tv. Because they can't argue what we're doing. They can't honestly sit there and say, okay, ICE shouldn't remove criminal aliens from the United States. They're screaming and yelling about ICE arresting people and ICE enforcing the law and how dare they do this. Meanwhile, in four years under Biden, we just discussed that sex trafficking, women and children skyrocketed. Not a word. Thousands of children are being smuggled in the country every every week. Over half a million children were smuggled into the United States, separated from their families, put in the hands of criminal cartels. Smuggled the United States. Not a word. 1800 got aways a day. Not a word. Apprehensions climbed over 10,000 a day. Not a word. Over 400 people on terrorists watched this cross. They got apprehended. Not a word. But more than that, two man gotaways. More than 2 million people crossed the border. We don't know who they are, where they came from, why they're here. Because they got away. Not a word. So they didn't care about the legal process then. They didn't care about justification then, right? Screw the legal process. Let them all in. We're not going to say we're going to let the border be open. We'll create the biggest national security vulnerability and enter this nation. We're not going to say a word. Now all of a sudden we're trying to enforce law. Now they're up in arms. It's disgusting.

[Miranda Devine]

It is. And it's also frightening. You say the biggest national security problem. I mean, there have been, I think over 1,000 Iranians, also Chinese, Russians have come over the border. We don't know where they are, do we?

[Tom Homan]

Intelligence community and the bureau are tracking some but 2 million plus known gotaways. People caught on video, drone traffic, central traffic entering the United States.

[Miranda Devine]

We got images of them and they've evaded patrol.

[Tom Homan]

And people. Here's what people got to ask themselves. That's why I call it the biggest vulnerability ever. You pay the cartel a certain amount of money to get across the border. You pay them this amount to get to the border. You see a green uniform under by administration, turn yourself in, you get released within a day. You get a free airline ticket to the city of your choice. You get a free hotel room, you get three meals a day, you get free medical care, and you get work authorization within a few months. Why did 2 million plus pay more? Not to take advantage of that giveaway program. Why did they pay more? Not to get a free airline ticket, not to get a free hotel room, not to get free food.

[Miranda Devine]

Bad intent.

[Tom Homan]

Because they didn't want to be vetted. They wanted me fingerprinted that just scared the hell out of every man. It scares the hell out of me.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Tom Homan]

So again, 180 different countries, that's almost every country world cross that border. And we know that people from Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, Russia, China, Iraq, Iran all came across that border.

[Miranda Devine]

And ISIS sympathizes or ISIS terrorists.

[Tom Homan]

Absolutely. So I've said for a long time, you'd be a fool to think something's not coming. The thing that gives me any comfort is they've got President Trump in the White House. He's a strong president. So he's got everybody working really hard right now. I mean, I know everybody within Justice Department, Homeland Security is working on locating as many people as they can.

[Miranda Devine]

What's the biggest threat, do you think.

[Tom Homan]

Or I think right now, DHS has put out a terror watch this week and Iran's a threat. We know there's Iranian nationals in here that were released by the Biden administration to the United States. We also know there's no way you count over 2 million illegal aliens coming in this culture. There's no way. There's not a single one of them being from Iran. It's just a law of average 2 million people come across this border that paid more to get away. If they arrested 400 people on terrorist watch this. So you can imagine how many paid more to get away.

[Miranda Devine]

So ten and a half came over and were met by border control. You're saying 2 million? Over 2 million were known gotaways. So that's 12 and a half. Are there any more like unknown gotaways?

[Tom Homan]

Unknown. God's. We don't know how many there are. I mean there were places on the border under Biden administration where the border patrol was so overwhelmed, on average 70% of agents were off the line many days. 70%. There were several times under Joe Biden where the entire sector was shut down. Every agent was brought in to process the overcrowding. So there wasn't a single Morbidor uniform for hundreds of miles.

[Miranda Devine]

Crush.

[Tom Homan]

So we can't capture, we can't capture video and drone traffic and such a traffic on everybody. So there are also areas on the border where technology is very low. The Big Bend National Park, Very, very hard terrain to get through. You could put 100 people through there, they wouldn't even know it.

[Miranda Devine]

So potentially, how many could have come across under Biden?

[Tom Homan]

We have no idea.

[Miranda Devine]

Right. Could be 20. 20 million could be.

[Tom Homan]

We don't know. We don't know what. We don't know. We just. We can only count what we know. So, you know, frightening. So the unknown gotaways, who knows? But, you know, people keep saying there's 12 million illegal aliens in this country. We've been using 12 million for the last 15 years. There's more than 20 in this country, in my opinion, just because of what Joe Biden did.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. Let's go back to why you are kind of in service from the first place. You grew up in West Carthage in very upstate New York. Tell us about your childhood.

[Tom Homan]

I grew up in a big family of seven kids. West Carthage, we were outside of Fort Drum. But I grew up. It's a very patriotic town. I mean, everybody had American flag on the front porch. You know, parades were a big deal. It's a big. It's a farming community. When you're up there, either you're. You're working on a dairy farm or you work at Fort Drum.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Tom Homan]

Or. Or you're a logger. It's probably the only jobs up there. But I grew up in a big family, very Catholic family. And my dad was a cop. My grandfather's a cop. I always knew I was going to be a cop. I always knew I wanted to be a cop of some kind. Actually, most of my. I got one brother who's a farmer and paramedic. Five sisters. Most of them were nurses. And the ones that weren't nurses were any paramedic, emt. So, you know, my family raised, I think, a group of kids that wanted to serve the community. And I said, from day one, when I became the ICE director, it was a big deal. And I remember the first day in the office, my public affairs officer came in and said, okay, well, first day in the office, you got FOX News, you got ABC News, you got NBC News, you got Washington Post, you got New York Times. We got some of these interviews. I looked at her and says, wwny TV and Watertown Daily Times. And she looked at me, she says, excuse me. And I said it again. Watertown Daily Times, WWNY tv. She goes, who are they? This is my hometown newspaper TV station. She goes, Ms. Roman, all due respect, we got nationally syndicated. I said, I don't care. I says, do you narrate that story that it takes a village to raise you? That community raised me. I wanted to give them the first interview. And so we flew to New York and they got the first interviews because it really takes a village race. And I say this jokingly, but not so unjokingly. I think I grew up in a small village, less than 2,500 people. I think most of the mothers in that village spanked me at one time or another when I was growing up. Spanked you? It was a community, it was a village. And so I grew up in a small town and with a small police force, and I still own a home. I bought a lake home up there near the Canadian border because I was born there, I was raised there, went to college there. I was a cop there. I want to retire there someday. I just don't know when that's going to be. I keep coming out of retirement, coming back here.

[Miranda Devine]

They must be very proud of you.

[Tom Homan]

Up there, I hope. But I had a thousand protesters around a few weeks ago, so some people are happy with the Trump administration. But again, if they knew what I knew, the people who don't like what we're doing, who don't like me. If you wore my shoes for 40 years and seen what I've seen, the tragedies, you'd understand me because I've seen too much death. And I've seen so many things that can be fixed. Like right now, as we just discussed. Elon Grant, 96% less people coming. How many people aren't dying?

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. Yeah. And now your dad was a World War II veteran, wasn't he? As well as being a cop and a judge in town. Tell us about your.

[Tom Homan]

Done your homework.

[Miranda Devine]

Tell us about your father and what he taught you.

[Tom Homan]

My father was my hero. He was a World War II hero. He won a lot of medals, award a lot of medals, and never talked about it. And actually, when he got really sick, we created a shadow box with his medals in it. He never told me how he got two Purple Hearts. How'd he get two bronze stars? He didn't want to talk about it. And he never showcased these things.

[Miranda Devine]

He would have seen a lot of death as well.

[Tom Homan]

Oh, absolutely. But when you walk in my office, my home office, I got him hanging on my wall. Matter of fact, I was ICE director. I had him hanging on the wall when I was ICE director and Secretary John Kelly was a four star Marine general, America walking in one day. He looked over there right away, looked at, he goes, they're not your medals? Said, no, sir. He goes, 11th Airborne, your dad. I go, yeah. He walked over there, he says, you know, all these medals mean? I said, no. And he walked me through every medal. Tell me what this medal meant with that medal. Meant what? This metal map. And we even got a picture that way showing me other medals. So I got the medals in that picture in my home office now. So my dad was a Tough guy. He was a war hero and didn't brag about it.

[Miranda Devine]

And, and what about your mother?

[Tom Homan]

My dad was strict. My mom, not so much.

[Miranda Devine]

Right. But she spoiled you.

[Tom Homan]

My mom. My mom, I had great parents, you know. I'm telling you, my childhood haunts me because I had such a great childhood, had great parents, and it haunts me that I fear that children don't have that same upbringing that I had. I mean, that small village and we had two paper mills, and you get the mill whistle, go off in the morning, go off at noon, go off at 5pm and during the summer, we knew when you get together, go ride your bike around, get on, get enough guys, get a baseball game, all your buddies. We knew when that noon whistle blew off, you gotta get on your bike and go home for lunch. After lunch, you go back to the ball diamond, play some more baseball. We knew at 5pm that middle whistle went off. We had to get our bikes, go home and be prepared for dinner. And it was a great upbringing. It was a great village. And, and I still keep contact with seven, eight of my friends I grew up with. They're all done very well because of the work ethic in that town. Everybody worked very hard, everybody's very patriotic. And I can tell you, my seven or eight best friends, they've all done very well for themselves in their lives. As a matter of fact, when we're meeting again next week, we do meet once a year and talk. We always talk about what a great upbringing we had. And that's the kind of, that's kind of country President Trump wants. Yeah, that's why I love the guy. I mean, he wants her. He wants American flag in everybody's front porch. He wants kids to feel safe, to go to the playground, spend the whole day there playing baseball, not worry about someone grabbing you.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Tom Homan]

And you know, it's again, my greatest childhood ever. Right. No one's had a better childhood than me. We didn't have a lot of money. My parents didn't check the check. But you know what? It was a great childhood.

[Miranda Devine]

And are you sort of haunted, you said? Is that partly because you think that your own children, you couldn't give that same childhood to Shameful.

[Tom Homan]

Yeah. I mean, I'm busy and I spent a lot of time with my boys growing up, but as I got more and more climbed the ladder of what I've done with ICE director and now back, I don't see my, I don't see my family very much. My, My wife's living separately from Me right now, mainly because I work so many hours, but mostly because of the death threats against me. I don't, you know, she's someplace else. I see her as much as I can. But the death threats against me and my family are outrageous, so. But my boys both growing up. One followed my footsteps. The other one, One other one still bankrupt me in college. But we'll deal with it.

[Miranda Devine]

And that's. That's scary and a huge sacrifice for you. I wasn't aware of that. Your wife, tell us how you met.

[Tom Homan]

Blind date.

[Miranda Devine]

Oh, really?

[Tom Homan]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

Where?

[Tom Homan]

Wow. 1998. My non blind date. She's the best thing ever happened to me. Gave me two great boys and she stood by all this. Look, we've moved numerous times across the country. The protests at my home, the death threats, the constant traveling right now, living apart. I mean, she's sacrificed an awful lot. So she's the best thing ever happened to me.

[Miranda Devine]

And she must be a patriot as well.

[Tom Homan]

Absolutely. And she must come back second time I was taking a huge pay cut. You know, not many wives want to hear that. You know, she's the middle remodeling bunch of stuff and all that stuff. Because I'm leaving the private sector, going back to government paycheck. And no one in the government makes a lot of money. But I felt. I felt a duty come back. I've done this my whole career. I know how to help. I know how to fix it. And I wake up every day like a kid in a candy store. I got the greatest present in my lifetime down the hall. Who gets it? He understands it. When it comes to border security, immigration enforcement, he gets it and we're going to fix it. He's the guy to fix it.

[Miranda Devine]

Last question. Tell us about Donald Trump. What sort of a person is he to work for and what sort of legacy do you hope that you leave the country?

[Tom Homan]

Donald Trump, I'll say it again. I think he's the greatest president in my lifetime because he keeps his promises. And I've had many conversations with him, whether it's on Air Force One, in the Oval Office or on. On trips. He wants the America that you and I grew up in. We grew up the older generation. He believes we should have American flag in every porch. He believes children should play safe in this. He wants to save America and he wants a strong military. He wants us to lead the world. We've always been the world leader. That's what he wants. And I get so frustrated. I read that he's a racist and he's A bigot. I spent my, I spent 40 years studying people. That's what special agents do, investigating people, studying people. The man loves his country like nobody. I mean, I respect him as much as I do my own father because I've seen what his intent is. My father's my number one hero. Donald Trump's a close second. I've had so many conversations with him. When you talk to somebody, you get to know him. And off record, no one's in the room, just me and him talking. And he's a normal guy. He really is. He really is a normal person. Has normal thoughts and loves his family and loves his country and wants to do the right thing for this country. And he takes a lot of hate. So he gets it that, you know, he knows I, you know, he knows I have a security detail now because of the threats. He understands that. So we kind of connect in different ways. And matter of fact, my death threats are nowhere near his. He's probably got more than I do, but he comes to work every day. Like me. He left a good living to come back and work for the government. I mean, he didn't have to do this. He could stay back and run a billion dollar business, but he came back because he loves his country, wants to do right, and people can attack him all you want, but you can't argue his success. We have the most secure border in the history of this nation because of Donald Trump. We're removing significant public safety threat illegal aliens every day from this country because of Donald Trump's vision and his leadership. I'm proud to work with him. And when I, when I retire for the third time, I'll have great memories because I believe what he's doing. If I did, I wouldn't be back here doing this.

[Miranda Devine]

Will you manage to get rid of all of Joe Biden's illegal aliens, or at least the criminals?

[Tom Homan]

My goal, people always say, when are you going to retire? I like to say I want to retire when every illegal alien, criminal threat, public safety threat, national security threats eradicated from this country. That's when I'll rest. But until then, I'm gonna keep going.

[Miranda Devine]

We're very lucky to have you. Thank you so much. Tom Homan.

[Tom Homan]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you so much for joining us today. Pod Force One is where the world's most powerful people reveal what really drives them. Please hit the like and subscribe buttons so that you won't miss future interviews with the biggest names in Washington and the world World. We'll see you next week.