← Pod Force One
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- [00:02]
Miranda Devine
Welcome to the Pod Force One podcast. I'm Miranda Devine and today we're joined by hunter Biden's psychiatrist, Dr. Keith Abloh. Keith Abloh, welcome to PodForce One. I'll just go through your resume very quickly. You, it's pretty impressive. You are a forensic psychiatrist, a life coach, a best selling author, a film producer, former TV host, former Fox News firebrand, former assistant clinical professor at Tufts University School of Medicine, and aspiring Senate candidate. You've written 16 books. You graduated top of your class at Brown University John Hopkins Medical School. And as if that wasn't enough, you weren't busy enough in medical school. You also worked as a reporter for Newsweek and a freelancer for the Washington Post and USA Today. High achiever. But it wasn't smooth sailing. You resigned as a member of the American Psychiatric association in 2011 in protest at their support for for transgender surgeries and for minors. And in 2019, your medical license was suspended in Massachusetts and then New York after three female patients complained about sexual misconduct or unethical behavior. And then you became an unwishing player in one of the biggest political scandals of our time. Something I know a little bit about the Hunter Biden laptop scandal. And I think I'm right in saying that your life has never been the same. Thank you for joining us.
- [01:37]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, thank you. That's quite an introduction. You've made my mom very happy today.
- [01:42]
Miranda Devine
I'm sure. Now, we first got to know each other when I was writing the Hunter Biden laptop book, Laptop from hell. And you pop up in the laptop a lot. There are a lot of text messages with Hunter Biden. A lot of them are now very public. So I think we can talk about them. But tell me, I have two kind of burning questions about that relationship with Hunter Biden. And one is that how come after you had so publicly and were the first person in America back in 2012, you went on Fox and you diagnosed or surmised that that Joe Biden, then vice president, was. Had dementia. And then seven years later, Hunter Biden seeks you out to be his psychiatrist. Is there something Freudian in that? I mean, it's bizarre.
- [02:42]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Good question. I think I was recommended to Hunter.
- [02:47]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [02:48]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And I had treated lots of high profile folks, continue to coach lots of high profile folks. So there's that. There's this too. When you're suffering, it doesn't matter. It really levels the playing ground. And one's political affiliation doesn't matter. If you think someone can help you at a moment of desperation, it levels the Playing field. Otherwise, yes, I suppose it would be curious. It was during the debate with Paul Ryan, the vice president.
- [03:23]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. How did you pick that up so early?
- [03:26]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, one of the benefits of being a psychiatrist is you learn to listen to yourself as you're listening to others. So you don't just have things roll over you. You tend to say, well, why am I uncomfortable with this? Why am I having a strange feeling about it? My feeling at the time, listening to Joe Biden, was, this feels like a staccato performance. It feels brittle to me, and not just because he was debating and he has a habit, let's say, of interrupting, but because the interruption seemed too frequent and inelegant during that debate. And I felt like his laughter was also arresting. It didn't seem for me to be appropriate. And so I thought, well, what could be an explanation for that? And I went on Fox News and said, well, one explanation. I haven't interviewed this man. I haven't. I'm not diagnosing him. But some folks who have that kind of behavior, when you feel that from them, have an element of dementia. So I may have been the first one in the country to say, maybe there's an element of memory loss here.
- [04:43]
Miranda Devine
And that was seven years before he announced that he was running for president. And I must say, in early 2020, when I saw him on the campaign trail in New Hampshire and Iowa, he was obviously cognitively impaired. It was even then clear. So it's incredible that he got through the presidency as well as he did. Really.
- [05:06]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You know, when you're dealing with family members, by the way, people do this themselves, it'll be a different word choice than a loved one uses. Or, you know, asking a question again.
- [05:19]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [05:19]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You're like, huh? Right. But that's when you're connected with someone in an incredibly, you know, powerful manner, and you're perhaps seeing them a lot of the time when you train as a psychiatrist, again, you're listening to yourself, listening. And another example would be folks who have subtle seizure disorders. We're taught to think of them as potentially sticky. What does that mean? It means that if you feel like you can't detach from someone, then it might not just be that they are insistent people during a discussion where you're like, I think we're done with this discussion, but it seems to be going on forever. It might be that they have a subtle seizure disorder. So you learn all these things. That was my instinct. I went to Roger Ailes's office. It happened to be after that debate we just happened to be meeting. Yeah. And he said, what did you think? I said, well, I'm a little worried that he could be suffering an impairment. You know, as long as it's not saying that I diagnose, diagnose him. I make clear I haven't interviewed the man. I never met him.
- [06:21]
Miranda Devine
Interesting, because I remember watching that same debate and marveling at how Joe Biden was so skillful at really demolishing Ryan, you know, and I, I saw those interruptions as being sort of aggressive and putting Ryan off kilter. And then the inappropriate laughter. I saw he used laughter as a weapon. And I mean, in fact, I think he does use laughter as a weapon. It's quite effective.
- [06:48]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think so, too. I just think that there are moments that I felt that weapon is misguided in this situation, misfiring. There are amazing stories from my medical school days. One was a lecture that was given by the head of endocrinology. I thought it went just fine. At the end of the lecture, the head of neurology went up to him, he said, we're going to go get a CAT scan. He had a brain tumor. It was very subtle in terms of the pace of the language that the head of neurology said. That's not right. And that's what I felt.
- [07:27]
Miranda Devine
Interesting. What do you think was wrong with him at the end? I mean, we saw him freeze in that final debate. What was going on in his head then? Was that a seizure?
- [07:39]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Oh, I wouldn't know. But perhaps a continuing degree of the same kind of cognitive issues. And the freezing. I think his family said he was sleep deprived. Sure, that could, that could certainly play into it, particularly if you do have any kind of cognitive impairment. You need to have everything dialed in. In that case, sleep has to be good supplementation with the right supplements. Your health has to be tip top shape so that your neural neurological status isn't impacted by other bodily functions. So I wouldn't know exactly, but it wasn't surprising to me because I saw it way back when.
- [08:21]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And the other burning question I have about the Bidens is Hunter Biden was your client, your patient, and he left another laptop at your place. Not, not to, I think a few weeks or months before he abandoned the famous laptop in the Delaware repair shop that, that we reported from at the New York Post. But before that, he'd abandoned this other laptop. And that's one of three laptops I know of from the laptop that he's either lost or abandoned again. Is that some Freudian thing? Especially when the abandonment of two of those laptops happened within weeks of his father announcing he was running for president in April 2019.
- [09:09]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I don't think you have to be a psychiatrist to say if somebody's leaving behind information of that kind, laptops, maybe there's kind of a Freudian desire to be rid of that part of your life. You know, it's interesting. I don't know that Democrats would agree with this or a lot of them, but God's works. God works in mysterious ways. And if you are unsettled with the kind of life you're leading or your life story, if it's not authentic to you, and I don't know if he had that sense. I mean, after all, he's evolved, apparently, into an artist quite different than what he was doing, then you may arrange unconsciously to rid yourself of that false Persona.
- [10:03]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [10:03]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And if someone said to me, well, is it out of the question, Keith, that he would literally dispense with that part of himself by leaving it behind again and again?
- [10:12]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [10:13]
Dr. Keith Abloh
In a way that ultimately ends up with him pursuing a very different kind of life, I'd say, well, certainly is possible. It's kind of textbook.
- [10:23]
Miranda Devine
Yes. Interesting. I mean, also, I divined in my amateur psychologist way that the random, divine, divine.
- [10:32]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I love that I may use that.
- [10:36]
Miranda Devine
Hunter, he adored his father in a very deep way. I mean, he was his only parent after his mother was killed in a car crash when he was very young. But Joe Biden is a difficult person, and I believe deeply dishonest, which I think is difficult for a child. I'm sure that if a man is dishonest in public, he's dishonest at home. And to be promised things by your only parents that don't come to fruition I think would be brutal. And also, Joe Biden was deeply selfish. And all he cared about, in my view, was his ambition, his new career in the Senate. He abandoned his two little boys to be brought up by family members, although his cover story was that he came home every night on the train. So I feel that Hunter, in a way, hated his father as much as he loved him. And by abandoning those laptops, he was doing great damage to his father. I mean, in fact, that's exactly how it rolled out. I think the fact of those laptops now reporting on them, punctured the myth of Joe Biden as honest Joe, the best father in the world, modest Joe, et cetera. And instead, we saw him as. I think he is as know, corrupt, an influence peddler, a User of people, including his family, and fixated on an image of status and success and money. Is there anything that you can add to that, or do you think that's wrong or right? It's just my guess.
- [12:18]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think it's a psychological perspective. You're a great student of the episode, the family, et cetera. I can't really say more because I don't want to cross any boundaries. Yes. And say more than I should about Hunter. I can say this, though, because it's known if you are as Hunter was in the backseat of a car when your mother and sister are killed, it's an indelible event. And would that set someone up to need a tremendous connection and have a magnified kind of hope that things will be okay and that the person who has, you know, now become your only parent will acquit himself perfectly? Would you. Would you bond with that person in an incredibly powerful way? Yes. Could that lead to some ambivalence about it? Sure. Because, again, you want to be yourself. Everybody wants to be an individual. If your potential to do that and declare, this is who I am, literally who I am, that's a biblical thing. I am. This is who I am. This is my immeasurable connection to God. If that seems to be eroded by an. An outsized connection to another person, even your dad, you may have to do something unpredictable, dramatic, and even unconscious in order to have your own path in life. And again, I mean, I talk about this a lot, but the universe or God, I'd say God is ingenious and perfect. And you may not. You wouldn't want to get out of this life without becoming yourself.
- [14:18]
Miranda Devine
Interesting. And I mean, Hunter Biden, of course, had the perfect older brother, Beau, one year older than him, who was the golden child and never seemed to set a foot wrong, and who Joe Biden had kind of anointed as his successor in politics to carry on the dynasty. And Hunter, who was quite a sensitive little boy, very artistic, wanted to be an author or a painter, was kind of dragooned into the family influence peddling business as the bag man. And I never got the feeling his heart was in it. And I know you can't necessarily agree with that, but if someone is in a position like that, would it make sense that they would then become an addict to try and escape from this reality that they don't want to be in?
- [15:08]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, we don't even have to talk about Hunter to talk about that. But in terms of what opens the door to addiction, it's unbearable pain. People you know, Freud talked about the pleasure principle. People don't want to embrace their pain. They don't want to plumb the depths of that. Even though that's where your buried treasure is, that's where you're going to learn who you really are really and what you can can overcome. If you aren't able to think about how profound a loss you suffered as a little boy, for instance, you might then find yourself using drugs in order to not go there.
- [15:50]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [15:51]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Would we think of anybody in that situation as evil or bad? We think of it as human. All stories are understandable. If you really get all the facts, they all add up. I've never met anybody, including serial killers, etc. I've never met anybody whose story didn't make sense. Where I say to myself, well, where did this come from? No, it always seems to make sense. And so what do you do in your writing and as a journalist? You're making sense of things that other people might not have the time, the interest or the experience to do. And this story is no different than that.
- [16:31]
Miranda Devine
That's a very compassionate way of looking at the world, really. I mean, even a serial killer. What about psychopaths? I mean, aren't some people just born evil? And it's not really a factor of bad experiences.
- [16:46]
Dr. Keith Abloh
One of my favorite topics, I think if there is such a person, I have not met that person. Can wonderful DNA insulate you against becoming destructive in this world, even though you've lived through really difficult things? Maybe. Could very pristine neurochemistry do it? Maybe. You know, what actually does it, I found, is did you have one person who believed deeply in you and saw you? That person, by the way, can be a psychiatrist, psychologist, life coach later on.
- [17:32]
Miranda Devine
Right?
- [17:33]
Dr. Keith Abloh
But some of the folks who I've talked to, who I say, man, you went through this and this and this, and you're not a serial killer.
- [17:40]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [17:40]
Dr. Keith Abloh
They say, and I asked them, who was the person who you were sure loved you as a kid? And it's. That question never goes unanswered, so that's important. And then also, I think it's impossible to weigh and measure all of these things that go into did someone become Charles Manson or not? By the way, Charlie Manson said when he was sentenced to death, you can't kill me, I'm already dead. Right? Right. Yes. Can you be resurrected? We know what the Bible says about that. Of course you can. Now, can we let you out of prison while we try to resurrect you? Not if you've killed somebody. Right. Sadly. But I say sadly because I really do believe that people are born good with the potential to do good. And then events transpire. And perhaps some of the events are, hey, not great. Neurochemistry. Right. Vulnerable DNA. But it never trumps story. And so, yeah, I'll tell you a little story. We have some time. Yes. I met with somebody who had. This was in a prison, who had almost killed a woman. And because he didn't kill her, she identified him and he was given a very lengthy jail sentence. And I was evaluating him and I said, kind of like Columbo on my way out the door, I say, I have one more question. He said, what? What? I said, you didn't kill her? He said, no. I said, and she identified you? Yes. I said, well, why not? He said, doesn't matter. Now, if you're a psychiatrist, you lean in more. Or journalist. I said, no, no, it's okay. Tell me nothing. I said, tell me the nothing. He said, well, it's weird. I had a teacher in third grade and she said, I know what they're saying about you. Not good things, by the way, but I think you're a good kid. I heard that again when I was going to kill her. So I didn't.
- [19:54]
Miranda Devine
Wow.
- [19:56]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Now, if one statement by a third grade teacher can save a life decades later, how powerful is a father?
- [20:06]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [20:07]
Dr. Keith Abloh
In a child's life, whether you've lost your mom and sister in a car crash or not. But imagine if you have. Yeah.
- [20:16]
Miranda Devine
Yes, that's right. The other question, last question I have about the Hunter Biden, before we get onto other interesting things, his is, I mean, he tell me the circumstances of how he left his laptop at your place and how long was it there, and did you try to get him to get it to take it back?
- [20:42]
Dr. Keith Abloh
So he left the laptop and a number of other items. And clothing.
- [20:47]
Miranda Devine
Nice clothing.
- [20:48]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Very nice clothing. I. I was tempted.
- [20:50]
Miranda Devine
Expensive clothing.
- [20:51]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think we might be the same size. It's. Yes, but. And I encouraged him to pick it up several times and finally said, listen, if you're not going to pick it up, I'll ship it to you. Never got an address where to send all this stuff. And then, because it was still in my office, it was seized during, as you've alluded to, the raid of my office by the dea, where they seized things, including Hunter Biden's laptop and all your guns. My guns had been taken, interestingly enough, by the police prior to that. And.
- [21:26]
Miranda Devine
And why would they. Why were you being raided?
- [21:29]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I don't to this day, I don't know why.
- [21:32]
Miranda Devine
Really. And they've never charged you with anything?
- [21:34]
Dr. Keith Abloh
They have never charged me with any crime, Right? No.
- [21:37]
Miranda Devine
Really?
- [21:37]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Not at all.
- [21:38]
Miranda Devine
And did they give you guns back, your property?
- [21:41]
Dr. Keith Abloh
They gave me my property back, the guns. No. I think I may have to go to court to get those.
- [21:46]
Miranda Devine
Wow.
- [21:47]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Back. But it does bring up another issue of, you know, when do you stand up for yourself and when do you exceed to things? I suppose I could have said I'm not. I'm not turning them over. And I still think about that. Yeah, right. These are the moments in life where you say one way to say it is, am I Donald Trump or not? Yes, by the way. And I just got the chills because I think he's so instructive to so many people in terms of personal strength. Yeah. That was not my Trump moment. My Trump moment would have been. No, not doing it. Hey, Bill O'Reilly here, host of the no Spin News corporate media programs. They're often lazy and dishonest. You know that the podcast world filled with misleading bomb throwers, masking important issues that directly impact you. The no Spin News is here to counteract that. We are a fact based, honest and unaffiliated broadcast. Our purpose is to inform you and give the best assessment of the situation, whether it's political or cultural. Please listen to the no Spend News with me, Bill O'Reilly on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever podcasts are found. Remember, trust is earned. Hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast. If you want straight talk on national security, foreign policy and the biggest global stories going on of the day, this is the show for you. We publish twice a day, Monday through Friday, once in the morning, again in the afternoon, and on the weekend we go longer with the PDB Situation Report with excellent guests including national security insiders and foreign policy experts. Check us out on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Also on our YouTube channel at PresidentsDaily Brief.
- [23:47]
Miranda Devine
We're brought up to respect authority and all of that. And I think we're in a different world now. Where authority is, we're seeing, is much more foreboding and sinister.
- [23:57]
Dr. Keith Abloh
We're brought up to respect authority. The ultimate authority is the truth.
- [24:04]
Miranda Devine
Mm.
- [24:05]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And being dialed into that, being willing to stand up for that, you know, when I went through, I'll tell you, when I went through that raid and the other things that were not easy to go through in my life, bad headlines and things like that.
- [24:19]
Miranda Devine
Well, you had several hit jobs in the Boston Globe and New York Times about being struck off and.
- [24:26]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yes.
- [24:26]
Miranda Devine
Those women.
- [24:27]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Miranda Devine
Accused you.
- [24:28]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yeah. What.
- [24:29]
Miranda Devine
What happened with that in the end?
- [24:32]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Were you charged with nothing? No, charged with nothing. And so, you know, I used to literally say to myself, and that is one reason I wrote a book called Trump youp Life. But I used to literally say to myself, I'm okay being, say, 30% of Donald Trump.
- [24:50]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [24:51]
Dr. Keith Abloh
But I can't be 3%. And so the way I respond to this adversity has to be at least a third as good.
- [24:58]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [24:58]
Dr. Keith Abloh
As what Trump would do. And it bolstered me. It gave me like a little bit of a spine of steel. And I think that can be channeled by other people who might use him as an example for their own lives and say, listen, if he can be indicted. The Times. He's been indicted and accused of monstrous acts.
- [25:17]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And shot at twice.
- [25:19]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And shot at twice. And he keeps coming back.
- [25:23]
Miranda Devine
What is it about him? He seems to be a unique individual. The resilience, I guess, the ebullience. What is it about him that makes him so different?
- [25:36]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think he has the capacity to stay in the theater of his own existence and say, that's interesting. Instead of, oh, my God, we. It's human. I understand a lived through things, and I've counseled so many people who've gone through things. And that terrible feeling you get where you feel like your stomach's falling and, oh, my God, I don't think he has those feelings. I think he basically looks at things askance.
- [26:10]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [26:11]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And he says, interesting, let's see where this goes.
- [26:14]
Miranda Devine
Like he did on the Biden debate stage when he's looking at Biden instead.
- [26:18]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Of, yeah, I love that. Where he tilted his head and he.
- [26:22]
Miranda Devine
It's a meme.
- [26:23]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And it's exactly the feeling I got back with the Paul Ryan debate where he was thinking something. What's wrong? There's something wrong here. Yeah. And what. What I mean by stay in the theater of your existence is the only time we walk out of a story tends to be our own or other people's. One we shouldn't have, but when we shouldn't have. Perhaps. But if you're watching a movie and the main character gets in a load of trouble, do you see anybody throwing their popcorn away and walking out saying, hey, Tom Cruise is in a jam. Let's get out of here.
- [26:58]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [26:59]
Dr. Keith Abloh
No. Everybody sits there. They. They say the very same thing, which is, let's see what happens. I wonder what's going to happen.
- [27:06]
Miranda Devine
And Trump does that.
- [27:08]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think he has the capacity to say, I wonder what's going to happen. And also, he never thinks that the story is over. You can debate him. He can say things about what he thinks are your deficits. He can be very cutting. And at the end of the day, he may come back and say, what about joining the administration? What I thought, yes, no, no. The story goes on. We're going to see it in the Middle East.
- [27:33]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [27:34]
Dr. Keith Abloh
It takes that kind of storytelling ability to say, listen, this has gone on for hundreds of years. It can still end. It's a story.
- [27:43]
Miranda Devine
An optimist, too.
- [27:44]
Dr. Keith Abloh
He's an optimist with a pen in his hand. That's very powerful to be able to say, look, I'm the author of my existence. You may have your vision of who I am, and you think it's the last chapter. It's not the last chapter. You shot me. It's not over. You know why? Because I can stand up, pump my fist in the air and inspire millions of people and turn this whole thing to my advantage and the advantage of those millions of people.
- [28:12]
Miranda Devine
I think he also has a kind of an ability to look at what could be the worst possible scenario and think he can handle anything. Because I asked him during the whole. In New York, when he was going to court every day, are you. And. And he. The judge was threatening him with jail for contempt. And I said, are you afraid of going to jail? And he thought about it and he said, nah, I don't care. He said, I thought about it myself. I really don't care.
- [28:42]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You know? Okay. So I think one other thing that he has is what I think people should ideally have, which is to say, I don't know what this is about. If you're a faithful person and you believe in God and I believe he is both of those things that you would say, I don't know what this is about. I only want to use it to the good. When I went through difficult times, I thought, I don't know how God's going to use this. If I show strength in the face of adversity and it's my child who is inspired by it, I may not be on the planet when somebody thinks that they have his back against the wall and he looks at them and says to himself, I saw my dad go through things. You don't. You don't have me cornered.
- [29:35]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [29:36]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And I'd be in heaven, I hope. Heaven. Pumping my fists in the air. And here I thought it was such a terrible time. No it got repurposed to the good. Donald Trump has that. Put him in jail, he's going to figure out, wrongly put him in jail, he's going to figure out, how does God turn this to the good and how do I serve to make that happen?
- [29:58]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And in a way, his trials and tribulations did add to his allure to the voters and helped him win thousand percent.
- [30:06]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Because who doesn't have trials and tribulations? We all do. And we can be inspired. I think Tony Robbins is a gifted guy, but the whole country and the world is being treated for free to the greatest, one of the greatest self help seminars of all time. It happens to last 12 years, let's say, or more where people really can say, I'm going to use what I'm witnessing here in my own life and try to understand it. So crazy. Progressive journalists would say, well, he's, he's stupid. Yeah, he's coarse. No, no, that, that he's saying he's insane. Well, that sort of flies in the face of certain facts like the man's incredibly successful, his family's incredibly successful, even his ex wives respected him and continue to be, you know, you know, people he's been in terrible battles with. Come back with respect and say, I'd like to work with you.
- [31:09]
Miranda Devine
And his adult children are all sort of fully rounded adults with families of their own. The kid, the grandkids love Donald Trump. The kids have a great relationship with him.
- [31:21]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I've never had a bad Trump experience. No, I'm right. I bought a tie. A Trump tie. Fabulous, right? I mean, I can't write. He writes a book, it's a bestseller. He goes on TV when he wins an Emmy Award. In other words, these things can't be accidents. And yet people say, no, he's insane, or he's, he's, he's stupid. How could this be?
- [31:46]
Miranda Devine
So Trump derangement syndrome. Let's go there. It seems to just get worse. And it really does seem to me to be a psychiatric ailment. Some of the people I know personally who are afflicted just are obsessed. They cannot have a conversation without bringing up Donald Trump. What is that?
- [32:06]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think Donald Trump becomes a litmus test for whether you are offended by the notion of a core self connected to a higher power. What do I mean by that? I think there's an incredible movement afoot in this country and around the world to sever people from their core selves in every potential way. Why? So that the state can step in and say, really, you're not anchored. We're going to be your anchor. You don't know who you are, where you are, what you want, whether you can work anymore due to AI and everything else. You are, what gender you are, what sex you are. We will tell you that because you need us to. Donald Trump is the antidote to that. He's offensive to those people because he's. Nobody would say, I don't think he's masculine. I haven't heard that.
- [33:00]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [33:01]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I mean, he's. He's a man. He knows he's a man.
- [33:03]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And he's heterosexual in every way.
- [33:06]
Dr. Keith Abloh
He's heterosexual in every way. He's forceful again. He's anchored to what he really believes. You can't go through what he went through if you are not really rooted. Right. And have faith in what? Not the state, faith in yourself as connected to God. He has that. That's offensive to those with.
- [33:28]
Miranda Devine
Trump hated the photograph with his. Him pumping his fist.
- [33:32]
Dr. Keith Abloh
That hated it, of course, because what would they want? They would want you to be in pieces, hopefully, weeping, begging maybe, and say, I'm going to sue. Right. Because you should have protected me more. This is. They don't like someone who says, get my shoes before we get out of here. They don't like that. And so I think there's that. And also even his diet. He knows what he wants to eat and it doesn't please them. Right. Like, that's not nutritionally perfect. You should really be going by the, you know, FDA got. It's like, no, no, I know what I like. I'm going to eat McDonald's. Okay. Yeah. And by the way, anybody who says, because I saw things unfold in my family related to substances, I. I've never touched a drink.
- [34:21]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [34:21]
Dr. Keith Abloh
That's like throwing down the gauntlet to progressives who would say, well, that's very. That seems very obsessive and odd. No, I just know myself. I make decisions and I stick to them. Right. Because I've seen things that I don't like. That's the guy that you want negotiating on our behalf and the world's behalf to end wars. He's also the guy who might walk around, heard a story about LaGuardia and. And be pissed off, like, how can they not get this right for less money, Right. The restoration of the airport. It's offensive to him because the truth matters, facts matter, reality matters. To him. Nothing is a rounding error.
- [35:07]
Miranda Devine
And why is he, though, so strong in those beliefs about reality? You know, I mean, because he also has quite a Creative side, I don't know. I interviewed him, and he talked about how his parents got him tested when he was young and found out, to his father's chagrin, that he was a musical genius and his mother got him to play learn the flute for a little while, which he, I think, was quite embarrassed about. And he's never talked about it before or since, so. And you see him, like, he's very interested in interior design, the way he's juiced up the Oval Office, and he's fascinated by moving the paintings around and building a new ballroom. He's really into aesthetics, whether, you know, they're everyone's cup of tea or not. So there is a creative side of him.
- [35:59]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Clearly, there is. Knowing that now, as you've explained it, and it makes sense to me, all those things are stories. So essentially, he has a sixth sense for narrative, his own narrative. He says, look, I watched my brother get sick from alcohol. I'm not going to be the character in the story who reproduces that. I get it. I saw it. He's looking around the room saying, not quite right, but let's move that. What is that, by the way? We know what that is as human beings. We can empathize with that. It's that feeling. Not quite right.
- [36:37]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [36:38]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And he acts on it. And that's why he's a detail freak. Yes. And it takes a detail freak with a creative side to be inspired by music. And it takes a musician on the world stage, I would argue, to say, I know all of the noise and the horrors that have unfolded in the Middle East. There's still a symphony in there somewhere, huh? We have this guy. I don't know how it happened, but we have this. What an opportunity.
- [37:09]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [37:10]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And I think people should embrace it. Of course, as many of us are those with Trump derangement Syndrome, they should look in the mirror and say, what does it mean that I hate this person? Use it therapeutically. And by the way, I'll get death threats of this. Right, right. Use it therapeutically. Say to yourself, I have a very hyperbolic reaction to this person. Let's leave him aside. What could it mean about me that I'm so offended? And what it means probably is that there are elements of yourself you have not found that perhaps you've brokered away, that you need to re. Embrace. Because if you become yourself and you connect, I would suggest to God and. Or you want to call it the universe, whatever people want to do, I'll say, God, if you do that, you're going to Like Donald Trump.
- [38:08]
Miranda Devine
Right. Why?
- [38:11]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You're going to like him because he's your. Your soulmate, in a way, because you are rooted as he is in reality. In reality and in yourself. So in some ways, the diametric opposition would be somebody who has gender dysphoria. You're not sure if you're in the right body. Donald Trump is not only sure he's in the right body, he's sure he's in the right moment in history. He's sure that it's okay to test him and that he's going to summon every fiber of his being chosen to find the right path according to his gut and his heart. At a time when AI is substituting for people's thoughts and trying to substitute for their feelings, and everybody's afraid, am I going to be an avatar? Are they going to reproduce me or clone me? Try cloning Donald Trump.
- [39:06]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [39:07]
Dr. Keith Abloh
It ain't going to happen. And so even the occasional use of a. An obscenity is because he's authentic. He's authentic and he can find the right words, but he's not only highly intelligent, he is also grounded in self. This is like, again, like throwing down the gauntlet to those who want the state to live your life for you. And that's. That's the nightmare scenario where we're all cut off from ourselves. We're all therefore vulnerable to drug addiction. We're all therefore not respecting other people's lives, because if you don't have a life, you don't respect life.
- [39:55]
Miranda Devine
So that would explain why Charlie Kirk's last. One of his last tweets a couple of months before he died was that he was afraid of or not afraid of, but he was warning of the left's assassination culture because there had been. Well, there was the CEO murder in cold blood assassination. There were attempted assassinations on Trump. There was also this poll that showed that liberals, more than half of them, thought it would be quite okay to assassinate Elon Trump or Donald Trump or Elon Musk or Donald Trump. And that was at a time when all the Tesla factories were being firebombed and attacked. So. So that sort of goes along with what you're saying about the kind of loss of self.
- [40:44]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yes. What is this? It's the myth of the vampire. The walking dead.
- [40:50]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [40:51]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Are the killers.
- [40:52]
Miranda Devine
They look like the antifa people outside the ice facilities. They look like they're from a horror movie.
- [41:00]
Dr. Keith Abloh
No accident. There are no accidents in the world. Why do they look that way? Because they are those people.
- [41:06]
Miranda Devine
Many of them Are trans.
- [41:08]
Dr. Keith Abloh
They want your blood. They want my blood. They want his blood. Why? Because they have. Because they have none. And they are therefore thirsty for yours. It's an insatiable thirst. It's an addiction. It. It. It's the same as a contagion in the sense that because they have no core self, by the way, nobody's okay that way.
- [41:29]
Miranda Devine
No.
- [41:30]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Right. And if.
- [41:31]
Miranda Devine
No. They look like tormented souls.
- [41:32]
Dr. Keith Abloh
They're tormented. And how do you. How are you effective when you are not able to be generative? When you can't create things like Trump or a writer, a journalist, or just order. Or just order. Yeah. Well, one way is to say the way I'm going to express the fact that I'm dead is to kill that guy. Right. And all the more so if it's somebody who's extremely grounded and trying to bring others.
- [42:03]
Miranda Devine
Like Charlie Kirk.
- [42:04]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Like Charlie Kirk. What was he doing? He was saying, let's talk. And I want you. I really want you to find the facts that you believe. Present them to me in the most ordered way you can. I'll help you with that because I'm going to challenge you, and you're going to be stronger one way or the other. Either you're going to agree with me.
- [42:24]
Miranda Devine
He was saving souls.
- [42:25]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Who's saving souls? And how do you save souls? You reinforce them and you suggest to them you are not anemic in your core. You're strong, and you could even be stronger. And I don't want to take part of you away. The progressives do want to do that. It's been done to them. They want to do it to others. And they thirst for a kind of infantile state in which the state is parent, they're taken care of as a child would be, or an infant, because they, for whatever series of reasons, they don't feel capable or competent themselves.
- [43:01]
Miranda Devine
Hi, guys. Nancy Grace here. Do you ever hear or read a headline and wonder what happened? We go to the scene, try track down leaves to help us understand why we want justice. Please join us. Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Monday through Friday on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. You're a Republican.
- [43:36]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I am.
- [43:37]
Miranda Devine
And the Democratic Party seems to me has gone from being, you know, just a regular sensible party to being so Trump deranged. They are the party of the living dead.
- [43:49]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yes.
- [43:50]
Miranda Devine
That antifa is their street militia. Is there any coming back from that? How do you, you know, I mean, I feel sorry for Democrats who are sensible people because they're homeless.
- [44:03]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Someone would have to be anointed, found, present him or herself as someone normal. Someone normal who says, listen, we do have differences with the Republican Party, but we're not going to this Trump derangement syndrome. We're not going in the progressive direction. Is there the hope for that? I suppose so, but it's not the way that things are going, and that's predictable because things tend. Once you're addicted to something, you tend to want to use more and more and more of it.
- [44:35]
Miranda Devine
Like addicted to blood.
- [44:36]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Like addicted to the blood of others and looking for a reason why you can say you're okay when you're not. You're not okay. Right. And. And so how can you assert that a country doesn't need borders? What happens to cells in the body when they don't have borders? That's called cancer. You die.
- [44:56]
Miranda Devine
Rise.
- [44:56]
Dr. Keith Abloh
This is a cult of death. It really is.
- [45:01]
Miranda Devine
Wow.
- [45:01]
Dr. Keith Abloh
A country with no borders is called a malignancy coming across the border. Right. Because you have no integrity. Meaning bodily integrity.
- [45:12]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [45:13]
Dr. Keith Abloh
So from the border to the person they want to obliterate. Reality, boundaries. The difference between you and me, the difference between men and women, The. The agenda for psychiatrists who used to be in the business of helping you find yourself.
- [45:32]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [45:33]
Dr. Keith Abloh
And instead, in the bible of psychiatry, the DSM 5, they're telling you to affirm someone who says, I'm a man when DNA says otherwise. That person's body says otherwise. And, and you could help.
- [45:49]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [45:50]
Dr. Keith Abloh
What are they telling you?
- [45:51]
Miranda Devine
Don't help or you'll be struck off.
- [45:54]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You'll be struck off. Do not help. And what. What is that saying? You don't. You're not a person.
- [46:00]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [46:01]
Dr. Keith Abloh
You. You belong to this organization, which belongs to the state, which belongs to the world government.
- [46:09]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [46:09]
Dr. Keith Abloh
In the end, then there's nowhere to go.
- [46:13]
Miranda Devine
And who is. Is there a mastermind behind this kind of progressive ideology, or is it. Jordan Peterson sometimes calls it a hive mind. Is it, you know, received ideology from Marx or where does it come from and who. Who's orchestrating it?
- [46:31]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I think there can certainly be leaders of that hive. I think. I think Barack Obama was a kind of leader of that hive who goes around giving an apology tour saying, you know, America's terrible. Well, he did. And, and that was an early volley in the effort to say, if you're living in this country, that doesn't mean it's a good place. It doesn't mean that you're good. Start questioning yourself. By the way, that's a cousin of you may be in the wrong body, by the way. Right? And borders, maybe they don't matter. And, and, and so, yes, I think it's a hive, but it also appeals to a basic, very self, self defeating instinct in people, which is the instinct to be an infant again, be cared for, be told what to do. Relax, right? Everything's going to be fine. We'll feed you, take some soma, we'll give you an. Take some soma, we'll give you an allowance. Yes, we'll feed you. And you won't experience self esteem, which will then make you very angry because people who have been cored, they've had their core taken out of them, they're not happy inside, they're really mad. And then you can get them to project their anger at others and go get a gun.
- [47:54]
Miranda Devine
Right? And then you've got the antifa zombies outside the ICE facility.
- [47:58]
Dr. Keith Abloh
The vampires.
- [47:59]
Miranda Devine
The vampires. Just quickly on Barack Obama. I know that you said about him once that he suffered from abandonment issues. Can you expand a little on that?
- [48:10]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, absolutely, because after all, he was, was abandoned as a child. He said that he suspected that his grandmother, who was Caucasian, didn't much like people of color. If, if that's something that you happen to. She brought him up and she brought him up. And if you happen to say that you suspect that the person who brought you up may not have liked you because of your color, well, okay, you've got a real edge and you're mad as hell and that even goes to questions about, well, okay. So are you saying that early on you felt that yourself, who you were, was under siege by somebody you truly needed? Is that, could that be why you want to put other people under siege in terms of who they are? Is that why it's offensive to you? That a country might have borders or that this country might be special? Isn't it okay that we're special? That seems okay to me. I think we've worked pretty hard for it. I'd like to contribute to it. Yeah, I'd like, to me, I am, I'd like to contribute to that. And I think that that is a direct challenge to those who would say, what do you mean you. Barack Obama said that you, if you have a business, you know, you don't, you don't own, you don't have that business, you use the roads to get your employees there. How would you have a business if not for our highways?
- [49:39]
Miranda Devine
Rise.
- [49:39]
Dr. Keith Abloh
I'm sorry. Last time I checked, I think I paid taxes and stuff to support that. I Don't think you own my business. He does. Right. Because you can't have anything because you are not a person. Right.
- [49:52]
Miranda Devine
It's profound when you look at it like that. Now, I've got a question for you. Just second, last question. But I've interviewed on this podcast many cabinet secretaries, and something popped out to me that was similar among them all. And they're all very different people. And so five of the seven cabinet secretaries had a traumatic event, mainly involving their father around the age of 12 or, you know, some of them a bit older. So Scott Besant's father went broke, family lost everything. Kristi Noem, her father, they were farmers in North Dakota. Her father died in a. I think he died in an accident or maybe just of cancer. But anyway, she had to come back from college and take up the family farm. Doug Berman. No, it was Doug Burgum's father. And Gene Farm died in a farm accident. He was about that age. He also had to sort of be the man of the house. Howard Lutnick's mother was diagnosed with cancer when he was 12, and five years later, she died. And then the year later, his father died, orphaning him. And then Mike Johnson, the speaker, he's my Cabinet secretary. But he also, it struck me that when he was about 12, his father, who was a father firefighter, was very badly burned and injured in a terrible accident and was an invalid and in pain all the time. And Mike had to, again, step up. So is there a link between that and they're. They're all incredible high achievers and all sort of insightful people.
- [51:31]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, there certainly could be, which is why we should practice together, psychiatry or life coaching. But now I think you've identified something very real. The test of fire can make very strong steel. And that's what you're describing. I'm sure there must have been somebody in each of their lives who nurtured them at that time. But again, God is perfect. And even the incredibly sad and tragic and challenging things can be things that ultimately manifest to the good. And I'm not surprised. I didn't know, but I'm not surprised that Trump would be surrounded by people who were honed in that way, because he was, too.
- [52:17]
Miranda Devine
Yes, yes. So he chose people, the Avengers, I guess.
- [52:22]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Right. And people who've gone through things. And I don't know if he knew every element of their life story or not, but people can be palpable in that sense. Yeah, that you have a sense. You've been through things and you're strong. Here you are.
- [52:37]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [52:38]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Yeah. And those men, what a natural resource those folks are.
- [52:43]
Miranda Devine
Yes. So that brings us to the last question, which is the secrets of success. What? You. You are successful. You've met a lot of successful people. You've seen their innermost thoughts. What are the secrets?
- [52:57]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Well, one of the secrets to becoming successful is knowing who you are. So you have to be living your truth, because we have a divining rod inside us, a barometer, if you will, that tells you, am I myself? If so, things become a lot easier if you are distracted or you're on a path that's very different from the one that's in your heart. And again, we're talking about things that are amazing and miraculous and we'll never find them under a microscope. The thing in your heart, we won't find it with a CAT scan. Yeah. To the extent that you can know what that is, look at your whole life and say, this is who I really am, and I'm going to go in that direction. That's the best path to success, for sure. Secondly, I would say don't avoid the hard work. These are things that, you know, I've said about Trump. Do the hard work. Being gifted won't be enough. It's going to be a lot of work. Thirdly, I'd say if you encounter resistance on the path to becoming who you want to be, expect that there'll be more resistance as you approach that goal, not less.
- [54:10]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [54:10]
Dr. Keith Abloh
The world tends to build in more resistors in the circuitry of your intention, the stronger your intentions are. Maybe it's a 10 test, I don't know. But expect more resistance, the better. Your idea. You're probably gonna find more resistance. And then I. I would say with a nod to J.D. salinger, my favorite author who talks about desirelessness. Don't be attached necessarily, to the material outcomes of what you want. Try to at least counsel yourself and say, I. That's none of my business.
- [54:43]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [54:43]
Dr. Keith Abloh
If I'm a novelist, I'm a novelist. I'll have to take what comes out of that.
- [54:47]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [54:49]
Dr. Keith Abloh
If I'm a politician, I don't know where it goes. I just know I have to do it.
- [54:54]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [54:54]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Right. And what? That. That's the gift to self. The greatest gift you can give is to say, okay, I want to find out what it is. I'm willing to do the hard work. I know there's going to be resistance on the path. And in terms of. Does it have to lead to one outcome of an. Or another? It doesn't. I just have to do my work in this world.
- [55:16]
Miranda Devine
Wonderful. Thank you. Dr.
- [55:18]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Thank you.
- [55:19]
Miranda Devine
And I really appreciate you also. I meant to we talked about it, the contents, but your brilliant book, Trump your life.
- [55:25]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Thank you.
- [55:26]
Miranda Devine
Where you go through Trump's sort of personalities and attributes and what makes him successful. And I think it's a really good handbook for people.
- [55:33]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Thanks. Because when I went through adversity, again, I channeled Donald Trump and and I said, I better write up the guidebook.
- [55:41]
Miranda Devine
Amazing.
- [55:42]
Dr. Keith Abloh
So I came up with 25 traits of the president that people would do well to absorb and emulate. And I believe that.
- [55:48]
Miranda Devine
Terrific. Thank you so much.
- [55:50]
Dr. Keith Abloh
Thank you.
- [55:51]
Miranda Devine
Thanks so much for watching. I'm Miranda Devine. Please hit the like and subscribe button so you don't miss any more episodes of Pod for.