Miranda Devine (3:28)

Wow.

Jeanine Pirro (3:28)

And then what we've got is in terms of clearance rates, you know, for the teens that were killed, the clearance rate is 34%, which means that 66% of these homicides have not yet been solved.

Miranda Devine (3:43)

Wow.

Jeanine Pirro (3:43)

And we're going to put a push on them. I'm going to put prosecutors on those cases.

Miranda Devine (3:48)

This is where the victims are teenagers or children.

Jeanine Pirro (3:50)

Yeah, the victims are teenagers. And the sad part is every one of them is African American. Miranda, have a heart. Yes, have a heart. Look at these numbers.

Miranda Devine (4:02)

Look at these people and their families. They're grieving families no one cares about.

Jeanine Pirro (4:07)

Well, I care.

Miranda Devine (4:08)

The media doesn't care.

Jeanine Pirro (4:09)

Why is safety something that can be objected to by the liberal left?

Miranda Devine (4:15)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (4:15)

I want to say to them, who. Who amongst you thinks that crime was at such an acceptable level that you were willing to live with it? Does that mean that you're willing to have someone in your family be victimized or God forbid, killed or shot, which is not unusual in this city?

Miranda Devine (4:32)

Like the intern, the poor.

Jeanine Pirro (4:33)

Eric. Yes. Which cases in my office in which we investigated with the Metropolitan Police Department. How many of you think that that was okay? Because you don't get to decide what's acceptable. What's acceptable is when there is no crime. And until we get there, my job, pursuant to my charge by the President. And thank goodness for this president, thank God for this president, because this city was going under. I don't care who you are or what your politics are, Washington was not safe. It was in terms of homicides. In 2024, it had the fourth largest homicide rate in the country. And why is that? When you peel back the layers of the onion, you realize it's because the people in charge in D.C. for some reason think that it's okay if you're 14 or 15 or 16 or 17. If you shoot someone but you don't kill them, then I don't get to prosecute them. They don't come into the criminal justice system. So the first thing for me was to make a decision as to where are the hurdles. Where are we going to start? The first place is lowering the age of responsibility. In New York recently, a 13 year old charged with murder. When I was a DA in New York. I charged a 13 year old with murder. Okay. I come to D.C. you can shoot people at 17, not kill him, and go to family court. So you can sit back and say, well, what's wrong with family court? Family court is there to protect the family and it's to rehabilitate, which is a wonderful cause. But if you're doing it, if they did it, but if you're going to yoga and ice cream socials, then this is not where I want young criminals, I call them punks to go. And you remember the Doge kid, they called him Big Balls.

Miranda Devine (6:25)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (6:25)

Okay. I spoke to the girl that he was trying to protect the next morning. And the next morning she told me that they were this whole throng of young kids. They were trying to pull her out of the car as the. As Big Balls. The Doge kid was getting beaten. And she said, judge, they were 12 and 13 years old. They were not 16 and 17. Fast forward. The case goes to family court. I cannot get it. It's not a crime over which I have jurisdiction. And the two 15 year olds that were ultimately charged and brought to family court are out. It's over already.

Miranda Devine (7:03)

Out.

Jeanine Pirro (7:04)

It's over. There's no record. That's the end of it, really. So this is what I'm dealing with.

Miranda Devine (7:09)

And how can you see their records? I mean, I can. And at 15, they probably have long records.

Jeanine Pirro (7:14)

The only thing I can tell you without violating the law is that whenever I get someone on a homicide at the age of 17, okay, the first time I get that person where I have jurisdiction, if it's a murder, I get their record. And I tell you, virtually every one of them has a long record before it of shooting without killing, possession of a weapon, of carjacking and Miranda. When they carjack, they don't just steal the car. You know what they do? They steal it. Then they torch it. They torch it. So we can't get the DNA, we can't get the evidence. So this is what is going on in Washington. And President Biden was good with it. But I'll tell you what, the people in Washington are not. I'm going into the districts to talk to the citizens. They want to be safe. So for all those liberal leftists who say, you know what? We don't want the National Guard, well, that's too bad. Then maybe what you're saying is you believe that people should be able to go on the streets and commit crimes, that you don't believe that the first order of government is the protection of its people. And when I talk to people, it's totally different. So. And the president has proven with the surge that he can make a difference. President Biden didn't do it. The US Attorney before me didn't do it. What we've got now and what's unique, I don't just do federal crimes. And this is huge in Washington. I mean, we have civil jurisdiction. We have terrorism jurisdiction. We've got all kinds of commercial and civil litigation against the government on behalf of the government, along with a criminal. But I also have local crime. Right. So I wear the DA hat, and I wear the federal hat. And that gives me the opportunity to look at everything and say, this is going to end. And I don't want to hear one person talk about how a young person's prefrontal lobe is not sufficiently developed, as though that's a reason to not bring them into the criminal justice system.

Miranda Devine (9:18)

And it doesn't mean you can't rehabilitate them. I mean, what you're saying is that there were lots of warnings along the way, and if someone had intervened, you could have stopped a homicide.

Jeanine Pirro (9:27)

I could have. There's no question in my mind, Miranda. And it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart that in this city, there were 26 African American teens shot and killed last year. This year, 17 African American teens shot and killed, all black, all shot with guns, all under the age of 20. One of them three years old, one of them five years old. Okay, you know what the clearance rate is? What, 29.6%, Raj? Because no one cared because these cases are not being closed. No one is closing these cases. And you know what I have right here?

Miranda Devine (10:05)

Why?

Jeanine Pirro (10:06)

You tell me. I'm too new to find out what I'm going to start closing. I have the homicides for decedents under the age of 20. I have them on my desk right now, and I have the telephone numbers of the mothers. I am going to be calling every mother to tell her, I haven't forgotten your son. I haven't forgotten your daughter.

Miranda Devine (10:26)

Wonderful.

Jeanine Pirro (10:27)

That's what I do.

Miranda Devine (10:28)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (10:28)

That's what we have. We have to touch people to let them know. Law enforcement isn't just about locking people up. It's protecting citizens, and it is protecting those families who have been destroyed by crime.

Miranda Devine (10:42)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (10:43)

That.

Miranda Devine (10:44)

Such a new way of looking at. In D.C. it is in D.C. in blue cities. What is it about blue cities that Democrat cities? I mean, when Donald Trump's talking about sending in the National Guard and journalists say to him why don't you send anyone into Republican cities? And he says, well, you look at the top 25 cities in this country for homicide, they're almost all of them are Democrat.

Jeanine Pirro (11:07)

There's no question.

Miranda Devine (11:08)

And why is that?

Jeanine Pirro (11:10)

Why?

Miranda Devine (11:10)

When it's their own constituents who are being victimized?

Jeanine Pirro (11:14)

Well, because unfortunately, it's not about protecting the victim. It's about politics. It's about making sure that they maintain power. And they try to convince people within their jurisdiction that things aren't so bad and that if you are arrested, that's because you are really the victim. Everything is upside down in these blue cities. They see the criminals, they see the abusers as the person who needs to be protected. Protected. I see just the opposite. I see the criminal as a person who made a decision to literally ruin another person's life and maybe take that life away and ruin the lives of everyone around that person. And therein lies a difference. It's about politics and ideology. Ideology and maintaining power. And this, what we're doing here, is a petri dish. It's a blueprint.

Miranda Devine (12:05)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (12:05)

The surge has literally shown that we can reduce crime like that, that we can absolutely make a difference. And if you don't like what is going on with federal people in your jurisdiction, then what you're saying is you don't want to protect the citizens. What you're saying is that I'd rather people be victimized. I go out, people thank me wherever I go and say, thank you, thank you. And I'm like, shocked. Like, they even know who I am here in Washington.

Miranda Devine (12:34)

But you can see the difference. It's palpable coming to Washington now. Now there are no homeless tents. You feel safer. There are more people on the streets. The restaurants seem to be more lively.

Jeanine Pirro (12:45)

They are. The restaurant owners will tell you that, right? Yeah.

Miranda Devine (12:48)

So you did this almost overnight against, you know, a lot of negativity and so on. Did Donald Trump wait until you came in in May to decide that he was going to clean up D.C. did you have a conversation with him about sending in the troops? What was it that triggered him?

Jeanine Pirro (13:07)

I don't know what triggered him. Obviously, you would have to speak to the president about that. But as soon as I heard about the executive order, I mean, I was all in. I mean, this is my jurisdiction. This is where all these cases are going to be screened and prosecuted. And the difference between this office and Matthew Graves office, I mean, I came into this office, I saw it as neglected. I saw it as an office that was literally not attended to. We're short 90 prosecutors, 150 legal assistants and paralegals. I mean, I don't even know what the rules are. Who comes in, who doesn't come in. There isn't there wasn't this, this, this tight kind of the way I would run an office? We'll put it that way. And so I had a lot to catch up on. I had a lot to make sure I was able to follow through on. So, for example, when Matthew Graves was here, one of the biggest complaints during the Biden administration was the Biden appointee. He was a Biden protector of Hunter.

Miranda Devine (14:11)

Biden, yes, very famously. He declined to join the prosecution with the U.S. attorney David Weiss in Delaware. Do you know anything about that? Have you found anything, any material in the files about his decision on that?

Jeanine Pirro (14:27)

You know, if I did, I couldn't tell you Miranda, because my job and my charge as a prosecutor is really to put the evidence where we can prove it in court and not to talk about it. So historically, prosecutors have always said we don't confirm or deny the existence of an investigation unless there's something ongoing that we can confirm. That's pretty much visual to everyone else. But there's no question that in the Biden, during the Biden administration, this office was not supporting the police in terms of actually filing charges. So in 60% at one point, 60% of the arrests made by the Metropolitan Police department here in D.C. they were not filing charges. So the police would arrest and the Biden people wouldn't, they wouldn't prosecute. I don't know. You have to ask them. Do you want to know what the numbers are now with me as the d, as a DA, as a US attorney, less than 10%. I paper, as they call it here, more than 90% of the arrests.

Miranda Devine (15:28)

As in charging?

Jeanine Pirro (15:29)

As in charging. So the difference is we got to work the cases, we got to do the. Make sure that we've got the evidence and do all the discovery. I mean, it's a lot of work here. But we are subject to these liberal leftists, subject to the D.C. council. Same thing that that they pass laws that make it almost impossible for me to get sentences that are appropriate. For example, if there's a 19 year old who goes on a public bus with an illegal gun and shoots another.

Miranda Devine (15:59)

Person, has that happened?

Jeanine Pirro (16:01)

Yes, this is a real case. Shoots another person in the chest. To me, that's intent to kill. It's in the chest. You know, God forbid that person died and the person didn't die. The 19 year old is prosecuted by my office. Convicted by my office. Word Sentencing. So the judge at the time of sentencing says, pursuant to the Youth Rehabilitation act that was passed by the D.C. council, I'm not going to give you the Mandatory minimum of 5 years as required by law. I'm going to give you probation for a couple of years, go to College.

Miranda Devine (16:40)

Youth at 19. He's an adult.

Jeanine Pirro (16:42)

19. He is an adult. He is an adult. But. But under that statute that the law gives the judges the right to give them probation. He walked out of that courtroom. I would have put him in prison. For the jail. For the gun. Yes. For the gun alone. Let alone shooting someone who, but for the grace of God, should be dead.

Miranda Devine (17:01)

D.C. juries are a problem, too, aren't they? You recently prosecuted a Department of justice employee, one of several, who was abusing the ice and customs people who were here, Border protection people, and threw a Subway sandwich at one of them. And D.C. jury threw it out.

Jeanine Pirro (17:21)

The grand jury threw it out. Look, we put in the evidence. The case was solid, it was all there. And we'll get questions like from grand jurors. Is this part of the surge? Now, wait a minute. That's none of your business.

Miranda Devine (17:40)

Right?

Jeanine Pirro (17:41)

That is not the issue here. The issue is, is this a crime where we have met the elements of the statute? And so what you've got is you've got people on grand juries that we have seen, especially during the surge, react. And you hit the nail on the head, Miranda, in your first question. 6% of Washington voted for Donald Trump, 94% voted against him. So who's on those juries? Yeah, you know, it's real easy to figure this out. What I have to do is I have to fight the fight, try to get objective jurors to see. And I think we can do you. I do. I'm a believer. I've always been a believer that when they see that these are real crimes affecting real people, that it's not about the politics that the left wants you to believe it is. This is about people bleeding on the streets.

Miranda Devine (18:34)

What about Russiagate? Now, we've seen Jim Comey. He's been indicted. We've got grand juries looking at others, including James Clapper, John Brennan, former CIA director, former nsa. What I mean, that is political. That's not people bleeding. But it crippled this country and crippled Donald Trump's first presidency, has done immense damage. I mean, Comey's in Virginia, but again, very liberal juries. Do you think he will be convicted? Do you think that that justice will be served in these cases.

Jeanine Pirro (19:12)

You know, obviously, I can't speak to what a jury's going to do. I can only hope that the jurors will stay true to their oath to be objective and to make a decision based upon the facts that they hear within the four corners of the court courtroom. I used to charge juries all the time that they not let anything else interfere. And I agree with you because, you know, I was at Fox during Russiagate, and it was incredibly divisive to the country. It was debilitating the country. People were fighting with family members and everyone else over whether or not Donald Trump was a Putin puppet or a Russian asset. It was horrific. And now we know about that. The investigations, I can't talk about them. What I can tell you is that everyone is looking at everything at this point, as well we should, because the American people need to have faith in the justice system. They don't have it, and that's for good reason. You know, and now when people are being prosecuted, you know, we can at least say that, you know, you remember you said no one's above the law. Is no one above the law? Only if it's to your advantage. You know, it's foreign to us. And we really have to worry also about our kids. I mean, they're being taught what to think and not how to think. And so as they grow and as they go through colleges and universities and law school, you know, they become part of the ideologue. Ideologues and the politicians, and it's frightening.

Miranda Devine (20:46)

Do you think that, you know, everyone's talking about, this is Trump's retribution and how dreadful it is. But isn't it important to have deterrence, to hold people accountable, even if it's only half a dozen of them?

Jeanine Pirro (21:01)

Oh, my gosh, it's not retribution. It is lady justice who's blindfolded with those scales saying, what has been done that is illegal and against the law. You know, why have people been ghosted about what the truth is and what the truth isn't? I mean, we live through, I think, some of the most difficult First Amendment times in American history when, you know, people were. They were canceled and they were deplatformed and all that other stuff. When it involves criminal activity, there's got to be a response. You can't just look away and say, oh, everything's good, you know, let's do a Kumbaya, you know, no, no, we're in a new time now. You have a young guy like Luigi Mangione who's charged with murder. A cold blooded murder on a New York City street. A coward, no less, shooting someone in the back for whatever his political reason was. And people support that. We have to do something to readjust. And that's where President Trump is, doing the work that needs to be done by making people accountable, by not backing off, by not saying, oh, you know, let's just let this go. And it's the same with any other criminal case. And thank God for this president, because if it weren't for him, this city would continue to go down. The D.C. council has passed laws that are harmful to the residents. One of the D.C. council members, I might add, I just indicted. All right, so corruption, of course. And you know, what we've got is we've got to lower the age. We've got to get rid of that, you know, some of these laws. And we've got to deal with judges who are releasing young people because they think it's the right thing to do.

Miranda Devine (22:51)

So where does the assassination culture that we're now living through, where does that come from?

Jeanine Pirro (22:56)

It comes from a belief that has been cultivated for many years now that it's okay to hate and then kill someone who is a leader because. Because they're a Nazi. And, you know, you keep watering that seed, watering it, and, you know, it starts to bloom and it flowers. And that's where we are. The hate has flowered into outright a rejection of law and order, into we should be able to kill this person because he doesn't agree with us or because we think he's a Nazi. I mean, think about this. Thirty years ago, this was lunacy. Today it's accepted by young people.

Miranda Devine (23:32)

And is that sort of the inevitable offshoot of, of this lax law and order that we've seen from Democrats for many years? And particularly it blossomed in the four years of Joe Biden.

Jeanine Pirro (23:43)

It blossomed in the four years of Joe Biden because Joe Biden didn't care about law and order. The only law and order he cared about was making sure that his son and his family were protected, as evidenced by the pardons that that auto pen signed on his way out the door. It also is a result of the fact that the hate and the division was created by the left because they knew they were losing America. They knew that they were losing middle America. And the only thing that they could do was try to convince those people who were willing to listen, who didn't or weren't willing to dig deep, that people on the right were Nazis and dictators. And I just Think the fact that 78 million Americans voted for Donald Trump was proof positive that the American people know the difference between retribution and law and order. The American people know that, and that gives me hope, and that allows me to continue to work here toward a safer D.C. and, you know, there's something called quality of life crimes, and I am finding out that quality of life crimes are not included in some of the DC Statistics. Okay. That means the breaking of windows, all the broken windows, theories from New York City that worked when I was a DA and, you know, years ago, that has to be addressed here.

Miranda Devine (25:06)

And the prisoning in the street. Yeah, smoking pot.

Jeanine Pirro (25:10)

Yeah, smoking pot. Being in a place where, you know, you're drinking and you're not supposed to be drinking. All of these quality of life crimes or, you know, just recently, I heard about a case where a car was keyed, you know, from the front of the car to the back of the car, which they say, you know, the police said wasn't a crime, it was an incident. Wow. Yeah. So there's a lot of layers to this onion that needs to be peeled back to bring Washington back. But by making Washington beautiful again, you juxtapose that against the broken windows, and you realize that the broken windows that we're going to start to repair, and the President making sure the streets are clean, you know, the tents are gone, makes. Gives us the illusion, if only that, of safety. But it ultimately ends up in the reality of safety because people come into.

Miranda Devine (26:02)

The street, they take over, the criminals recede.

Jeanine Pirro (26:05)

Yeah, yeah, they had. The criminals receded. Look, during the surge, There was a 57% reduction in homicides. There was a 53% reduction in burglaries and robberies. I mean, crime went down. Carjackings, enormous reduction. So this blueprint, this petri dish, should be utilized in every other blue city, whether they like it or not. Because I can tell you right now that the people in Chicago, they want safety. They want to be able to have their kids walk to school. They want to be able. Look, what is. What is the mayor's numbers there in Chicago? What are his favorites? Yeah, something like that.

Miranda Devine (26:45)

Brandon Johnson is the most unpopular mayor in the country.

Jeanine Pirro (26:48)

Yes.

Miranda Devine (26:49)

And Pritzker is not far behind.

Jeanine Pirro (26:51)

And what do they want? They want to resist the president bringing in safety and law and order.

Miranda Devine (26:57)

Can he do that, though, legally? There's so many legal barriers in front of him. Every step he takes.

Jeanine Pirro (27:02)

Well, everything he does is being tested every day. And you know what? If I'm President Trump, I do what I have to, as the President of the United States, to make people, people safe. Let's not play games with people's lives, because every day people are dying. Every day people are dying on the streets, they're being shot. Their lives are being terrorized like a thunderbolt that comes out of the sky. Their lives are never the same because someone didn't think crime was worth attending to. We do. And that is the difference with President Trump. And, you know, he's doing it on.

Miranda Devine (27:34)

The world stage with just the force of his personality.

Jeanine Pirro (27:37)

It's the force of his personality and his intellect. He's brilliant, right?

Miranda Devine (27:41)

You've known him for many years, haven't you?

Jeanine Pirro (27:44)

About 38, I think.

Miranda Devine (27:45)

When did you first meet him and how different was he then?

Jeanine Pirro (27:48)

He wasn't different at all. I met him. I had. I think I had. My then husband was representing him, and I think I was the DA or I was a judge, whatever. And we started socializing together, and he was. He was the same person he is today. But what people don't know about him is that if when we would walk down the streets in Manhattan, he would say, you know this person, this is Jeanine Pirro. And I'm like, but I'm with you, Donald Trump. At that point, if we went to dinner, he would go into the restaurant, into the kitchen and thank everyone and, you know, take care of everyone, give them money. You know, he. He's an incredible man, and they turned him into this horrible human being. And I know the real man and what you're seeing on the world stage today, and him in this second term is the Donald Trump, the negotiator, the guy who's fighting for you, who's fighting for law and order and safety and prosperity. Yeah, prosperity.

Miranda Devine (28:48)

Why has he got so much more sort of mojo this time than the first time?

Jeanine Pirro (28:53)

It's a question that I ask a lot of people. I asked Susie Wiles that I said, susie, is this attributable to you?

Miranda Devine (28:59)

Yeah. What does she say?

Jeanine Pirro (29:02)

She just smiled when I first told her that. And she said, well, I don't know know, but I think that the President knows. I think Butler did a lot to President Trump. I think when he got shot in Butler, Pennsylvania, and he survived when he should not have, he knew that he had a mission and he knew that he didn't have time to waste. And the fact that he's done so much in 9, 10 months is clear that no one can keep up with him. No one. And, you know, you have to laugh when they were saying, you Know, with President Biden. Oh, we just can't keep up with him, really. I mean, you see President Trump every day. And I'm very proud to be working in this administration. He is giving me the tools that I need to be able to fight the good fight. And we're going back. We're looking at cases. There was a bombing in Jerusalem in 2001, 24 years ago. And the family lost a family in Jerusalem. This borrowed pizza bombing family lost a 16 year old. And they contacted someone in my office and they said, would she be willing to talk to us about the case? It's not been, you know, would you be? Yeah, yeah, would I be? And I said, well, of course I would. And then I found out that no one had spoken to this family in 10 years.

Miranda Devine (30:19)

And what's their connection to D.C. because.

Jeanine Pirro (30:22)

It'S our case, the terrorism case. American citizen killed. Okay.

Miranda Devine (30:30)

So, you know, no one had done anything about it?

Jeanine Pirro (30:32)

No. Wow. No. And so my job here, the President's job, is to bring justice. We've got the Lockerbie case in this office. It's coming up in April of 2026. That was the Pan Am bombing in 1988 in Scotland. And that's our case that we'll be trying. I have a phenomenal national security security team in this office. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's happening here in April. And again, you know, we have witnesses all over the world. These are huge cases. These are enormous investigations. Yeah. And. But, you know, with this president, we're active and we're on it. And therein lies the difference.

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Miranda Devine (31:47)

And for you, I mean, it's been you. You took a huge pay cut from here. So, I mean, for you, it's really a service, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're back to your roots and what you loved, which was the law. Let's go back to your childhood. You grew up in a small town in New York State. Elmira.

Jeanine Pirro (32:10)

Elmira.

Miranda Devine (32:11)

Elmira. Sorry, that's my Australian accent. Elmyra.

Jeanine Pirro (32:15)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (32:15)

Tell us about your childhood, your parents, your family.

Jeanine Pirro (32:18)

Well, I grew up in a small town. I had one sister and my. My father Was a veteran. He fought in World War II and my grandfather as well. And my mom was a model and she was.

Miranda Devine (32:31)

She was beautiful.

Jeanine Pirro (32:32)

She was beautiful. And.

Miranda Devine (32:34)

And tell her about her childhood was quite miserable, wasn't it?

Jeanine Pirro (32:37)

Yes, it was. She was born in the United States and I'm Lebanese. Of Lebanese descent, 100%. And because she was a girl, her family didn't want her and her three sisters, so they sent her to Lebanon to be raised, even though she was an American citizen.

Miranda Devine (32:54)

Wow.

Jeanine Pirro (32:54)

And so she came back. You know, her father brought her back when she was about 19.

Miranda Devine (33:01)

Did he have sons?

Jeanine Pirro (33:02)

Of course. And they inherited the business and everything else.

Miranda Devine (33:05)

So he kept the sons and sent the girls off?

Jeanine Pirro (33:08)

Yes.

Miranda Devine (33:08)

Wow.

Jeanine Pirro (33:09)

So, you know, if you ever analyze my career, I mean, I'm sure that to a certain extent I carry my mother's not baggage, but I carry it as badge of honor. Fighting for battered women in the first unit in the nation. Fighting for abused children, fighting for people who don't have a voice to the. The silent victims of crime.

Miranda Devine (33:30)

Was she a victim of.

Jeanine Pirro (33:31)

No, but I think she was victimized because she was not allowed, you know, she didn't get an education in this country. She should have been able to live in this country. You know, she lived with an uncle, and, you know, it was very different for her. And she was a survivor, and she came back and had a wonderful life. But she always made me sensitive to the needs of the victim. And when I became D.A. everyone was about, you know, locking up the criminal. And I was about, yeah, I'm going to do that, but I want to heal the victims.

Miranda Devine (34:03)

Right.

Jeanine Pirro (34:03)

And that's what kind of made me different over the years. That's why, you know, I've got these victims. These victims. That's who I am.

Miranda Devine (34:12)

So you're. You're a tough prosecutor, but you always do that with the victim in mind?

Jeanine Pirro (34:18)

Always. Yeah, always.

Miranda Devine (34:20)

And is that why you started the first, I think, domestic violence unit in.

Jeanine Pirro (34:26)

In the country.

Miranda Devine (34:26)

In the country, yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (34:28)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (34:28)

So tell us about those times. When was that and what was the atmosphere?

Jeanine Pirro (34:32)

It was 1977, I believe the law had just been changed in New York, giving criminal courts concurrent jurisdiction with family courts to handle domestic violence. And so when I found out about that, I went and I said that I wanted to be. I wanted to run it, and I wanted to do a pilot project. So we were one of four pilot projects, projects funded by the Department of Justice here in Washington. Mine was the only that survived, and it was a crusade because you were.

Miranda Devine (35:02)

Kind of A feminist.

Jeanine Pirro (35:04)

I never use that term.

Miranda Devine (35:05)

No.

Jeanine Pirro (35:06)

I was a strong woman, right? I was a strong woman who believed that a woman could do anything a man could do. And you weren't going to pinpoint me or categorize me as one or the other, but I was always the only woman in the room. You know, I was a. I was a DA with 43 police chiefs. They were all men, and I was a woman. And did they respect you as an assistant da? You know, they would say to me, if I were lecturing them, and we're going way back, they would say, honey, can you give me a cup of coffee before you start lecturing?

Miranda Devine (35:36)

And what would you say?

Jeanine Pirro (35:37)

Well, the devil over here said, give him the damn coffee and pour it on his lap. And the angel said, give him the coffee, be nice, and you'll make a friend. And so it was a very fine line when I became the da. That was tremendous, tremendous respect. I earned their respect, right? I earned their respect. I earned the respect of a county which was a Democrat county that I won four times county, million people bigger than the district.

Miranda Devine (36:01)

How did you do that? Because you were elected da. You were elected a judge.

Jeanine Pirro (36:05)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (36:06)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (36:06)

How did I do it? Because I was honest. You know, when I'm not in my comfort zone, I can't. I can't. I can't communicate. I'm not. I'm not a good politician. If I don't believe it, I can't say it, right? And, you know, my mother and my father, I mean, it was all about God, education and country. It was real simple. We had a very simple life. Very simple. And my mother, you know, I first wanted to be a lawyer. I used to watch Perry Mason as a kid, and they would say to me, the relatives, you can't be a lawyer.

Miranda Devine (36:41)

You're a girl.

Jeanine Pirro (36:42)

Oh, yeah, I'm no spring chicken. So it was always a fight. It was always a fight, whether it was for battered women, abused children, victims of hate crime. I fought for a hate crimes law in New York with John Cardinal o'. Connor. Here's my cardinal right here. Do you remember John Cardinal o'? Connor?

Miranda Devine (37:00)

Yes, of course.

Jeanine Pirro (37:00)

Oh, this him? At a Red Mass. He and I were very close, and we got Cardinal o' Connor to join. We needed the Church to help us to get the hate crimes law passed in New York. And the only resistance was from the Catholic Church. And he ended up saying, you know what?

Miranda Devine (37:17)

You went over and schmoozed him.

Jeanine Pirro (37:18)

I didn't schmooze him. A lot of people did. But he was my friend, and I miss him dearly. He's still on my desk.

Miranda Devine (37:25)

Isn't that lovely? Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (37:26)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (37:27)

And so you wanted to. You watch Perry Mason. You wanted to be a lawyer. You go to law school, and there you meet your husband. Yes. Al, who apparently was very charming.

Jeanine Pirro (37:40)

He's still a charmer, right? Yeah, I met him in law. So I skipped a year of high school because I was in a rush. I was always in a rush.

Miranda Devine (37:46)

Right.

Jeanine Pirro (37:46)

Yeah. I met him in the law school, and the first thing he says to me were at the bookstore, he says, and I had a check. My parents gave me a check. So I said, how much are the books? You know, contracts, real estate, criminal law. He said, the books are on me. And I remember I was writing that. I said, who are you? He said to me, you're going to marry me. And I'm like, that. That's exactly what I'm like. Who just met him? Yeah. Who is this guy?

Miranda Devine (38:12)

He's the clerk or the clerk behind the.

Jeanine Pirro (38:15)

Yeah. He was working the bookstore to make money, and then at night he would mop the floors at the law school. But he was also president of his class.

Miranda Devine (38:26)

Right.

Jeanine Pirro (38:26)

He was always. He was in the moot court competition. He was one of those.

Miranda Devine (38:31)

Right. So he was like you. Really?

Jeanine Pirro (38:33)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (38:33)

You met your match.

Jeanine Pirro (38:34)

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. And we had two great kids. And did you.

Miranda Devine (38:39)

Was it love at first sight?

Jeanine Pirro (38:40)

No, it was not for me. No, I didn't. For him, it was. Right. He'll tell you that. But, you know, and it was. It was a good life.

Miranda Devine (38:49)

Were you ready to get married at that stage? I mean, you were a woman on, you know.

Jeanine Pirro (38:54)

Interesting. That's an interesting question.

Miranda Devine (38:57)

Why did you.

Jeanine Pirro (38:58)

Because I loved him.

Miranda Devine (38:59)

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (39:02)

It's real simple.

Miranda Devine (39:03)

And did you want to have children? Were you on a career path?

Jeanine Pirro (39:06)

Waited 10 years.

Miranda Devine (39:08)

Wow.

Jeanine Pirro (39:08)

Waited 10 years before I had kids. And why was that? Because I wasn't sure. I was like, you know, I love my career. He loved his career. And we would.

Miranda Devine (39:18)

And in those days, it was really. You had. Women felt they had to make a choice.

Jeanine Pirro (39:21)

Yeah. And I made a choice, and, you know, I didn't have any. And then, you know, as soon as we could, we did, and I had two great kids.

Miranda Devine (39:31)

And what changed your mind about having children?

Jeanine Pirro (39:33)

As I looked at my friends, not that they looked like they were having fun, but that when I got older, it would just be me. And I wanted. I wanted a legacy. You know, you have a career legacy. But I wanted A personal legacy. And my relationship with my mother was very unusual. We were extremely close and I wanted to have that with my daughter.

Miranda Devine (39:55)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (39:56)

And I had a daughter first, and then I had a son, and now I have a grandson and four dogs. Oh, lovely.

Miranda Devine (40:02)

And so. And so. But you and your husband Albert ended up splitting up.

Jeanine Pirro (40:07)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (40:08)

And he was a bit of a naughty boy in the end, wasn't he? I mean, he was very successful in real estate and so on.

Jeanine Pirro (40:15)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (40:16)

And. But do you think he was targeted in a way because you were running against Hillary Clinton, you were running for office, do you think? Because he, he was done for tax evasion. And that's something that 2% is often used. Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (40:33)

2%.

Miranda Devine (40:34)

2%.

Jeanine Pirro (40:34)

What taxes?

Miranda Devine (40:38)

Really?

Jeanine Pirro (40:39)

You decide.

Miranda Devine (40:40)

That is ridiculous. So they got him for not paying 2%.

Jeanine Pirro (40:46)

Look, I don't want to get into it, but what I can tell you is this. I don't think there's any question based upon people who had previously worked with Hillary Clinton that we became friends with subsequently, who made it very clear that that was a target. And you see the Democrats, that's her mo. The Democrats have always been good at this. And, you know, it's amazing that they're like, oh, it's retribution, whatever, when, you know, hopefully, you know. And I believe the American people know the difference. But I think we have been so beaten down by the left that at some point we're at the place where I think people know what it is and they know the difference. And it's a shame.

Miranda Devine (41:28)

Hillary Clinton, she. She did that to Trump with the Russiagate hoax. Tulsi Gabbard, I'm told she was behind her being targeted on the so called Quiet Skies TSA program. Right. This is a woman who is good at retribution and doing that to her enemies. And you were kind of patient zero in that because those. Very early on you ran for the Senate against Hillary Clinton, but you had to pull out.

Jeanine Pirro (41:57)

I pulled out. There was no question that it was not going to be a fair fight.

Miranda Devine (42:03)

Why? How did you know?

Jeanine Pirro (42:05)

Because there'd be articles written before I went to an event regarding what I said.

Miranda Devine (42:11)

Really? Talk about fake news.

Jeanine Pirro (42:13)

Yes, it was fake news, but I didn't know it was fake news then. Yeah, no, it was real clear to me. I was like, see, I'm a lawyer, you know, this happens, this happens, this happens. And I'm like, these people are on another planet. Yeah. So I ran for Attorney General in New York against. Against Andrew Climber. Yeah. And anyone. And I never said a word. I Mean, that's it.

Miranda Devine (42:36)

And was that a clean fight?

Jeanine Pirro (42:39)

Sure. When you lose, it's always a clean fight. You can never. As far as I. Yeah, I mean, I never did and I never will.

Miranda Devine (42:47)

Right.

Jeanine Pirro (42:48)

But, you know, those days are over and that's why I'm so glad to be back doing what I do.

Miranda Devine (42:53)

Do you think that if you'd been running or all of that now different, you would have had a different attitude?

Jeanine Pirro (42:59)

Yeah.

Miranda Devine (42:59)

And is that because of Donald Trump?

Jeanine Pirro (43:01)

Yes, I think Donald Trump is. President Trump has changed the landscape. President Trump, I think, has taken the veil off of politics, where he now has shown us what is reality, what is politics, what is ideology. I mean, the corruption of the media, the corruption. The border. The border is closed.

Miranda Devine (43:23)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (43:24)

No one's coming into the border. And yet we're watching this. Were watching Bill Milusian on fox, you know, with the drones that the Biden administration tried to get him to take down. They didn't want the Fox drones up to see the millions of people who are coming across the border. You know, thank God, I say it again for President Trump. I mean, the border is now really closed. And it didn't get closed because someone said don't. Yes, don't. It's closed because someone had the strength to back up their, their directive. And, you know, do you think he's.

Miranda Devine (44:03)

Going to be able to deport all of the people that came across during Biden's?

Jeanine Pirro (44:07)

I don't know. You have to ask him that. That's. That's out of my league. Yeah. You know, it's tough, you know.

Miranda Devine (44:14)

And is D.C. still a sanctuary city?

Jeanine Pirro (44:16)

Yes. Right. We're going to change all that. There's going to be a lot of changes in D.C. we're going to start prosecuting young people as soon as we lower the age of accountability.

Miranda Devine (44:27)

And how do you do that? Do you get Congress right?

Jeanine Pirro (44:30)

Congress, I've been all over. And right now what we're doing is we're sending the message that it's about accountability and consequences. And no more is there going to be, you know, send them all to family court or, you know, make sure that they're not arrested or, you know, lower the numbers of arrests. All that's going to change. You know, I have. I have a set of things that I want to do, and I'm going to do those things.

Miranda Devine (44:59)

And what are the top three?

Jeanine Pirro (45:01)

The D.C. council rules, the Incarceration Reduction act, the Youth Rehabilitation Act, Second Chance act, where they want to just seal everybody's record, just seal the Record. So if I'm. I'm not a teacher, but let's say I'm running a dance class and someone wants to come in and teach the kids. DC doesn't want me to know if they've got a prior conviction or sexual assault or anything. Right, okay. Yeah. That's wrong. Or if I'm an employer and I want to hire someone who's been charged with petty larceny or theft, they shouldn't be able to see that. That should be sealed. Hogwash. That's absurd. That is absurd.

Miranda Devine (45:40)

And. But how do you change what the council has decided?

Jeanine Pirro (45:44)

Well, this is where the President comes in. What the president is doing is he is working on making DC Safe and beautiful by. By making sure that he has discussions with people in D.C. who can help make D.C. safe and beautiful. I'm just one piece and in the car.

Miranda Devine (46:01)

Was it your relationship with me, Muriel Bowser, which I think is quite good, that that sort of smoothed the wheels for the D.C. intervention that Trump made?

Jeanine Pirro (46:10)

I don't know. I mean, I. I can't credit myself with that, but I made it a point to meet her early on and to make friends with her and.

Miranda Devine (46:18)

And what's she like?

Jeanine Pirro (46:19)

She's a nice person. She's a very nice person. If you can just get rid of the politics.

Miranda Devine (46:24)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (46:25)

And you have her. And she realizes now that her future depends upon the prosperity and safety of the city. And once you get to the common ground, then it's easy. It's easy to work together.

Miranda Devine (46:40)

And she only wants to stop at being a sanctuary city.

Jeanine Pirro (46:42)

She does. She does.

Miranda Devine (46:43)

But she gets rolled herself.

Jeanine Pirro (46:45)

She gets rolled herself. Those are decisions that she has to make. She's a politician and she runs for office now, but with the President and the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, all also. I mean, there.

Miranda Devine (46:55)

Another old friend of yours.

Jeanine Pirro (46:57)

Yes, another old friend of mine. There is a collaborative effort.

Miranda Devine (47:00)

Yes.

Jeanine Pirro (47:01)

And everyone is working. Everyone has a piece in the wheel, and that's what is going to make D.C. beautiful again. It should be. It's a nation's capital. My gosh.

Miranda Devine (47:10)

And do you pick up the phone to the president and to Pam Bondi, or do you meet them regularly?

Jeanine Pirro (47:15)

I see the President. I talk to him regularly. I talk to Pam regularly. Yes, absolutely. You have to.

Miranda Devine (47:20)

So it's a real teamwork.

Jeanine Pirro (47:21)

It's definitely teamwork.

Miranda Devine (47:23)

So, Judge Janine, New York was your home previously. I know you love it.

Jeanine Pirro (47:28)

I love New York. It's beautiful. The food's wonderful. The people are great. You know, everything is. I love New York. It's the energy that you get from the city. I want New Yorkers to be safe. I want New Yorkers to be able to do what we're trying to do here in D.C. and that is enjoy life, go for a walk. You know, here we're trying to stop, you know, an intern going out for a hamburger at 10:30 and getting shot.

Miranda Devine (47:55)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (47:55)

You know, the three dumbest words the Democrats ever uttered were defund the police. And if they haven't figured out now that that is a key to destruction, if they haven't figured out that that isn't the absolute direct way to destroy a city and family and businesses, then we haven't learned anything in 250 years.

Miranda Devine (48:18)

But they know and they don't care. You look at J.B. pritzker, he thinks his route to becoming president is to block Donald Trump at every turn to, you know, in Portland, they're insisting on the fences being taken down to protect ice. What is the mentality of the Democrats that they think that's the way to win? They still, you know, it's not like there are landslide elections for Republicans. Democrats still win, even with that mentality. Abigail Spamberger.

Jeanine Pirro (48:51)

Yeah, she won't, she won't say that men shouldn't be in women's bathrooms. I mean, I can't believe this. You know, the question now is, I talked about it earlier and it's that seed that was planted and watered and then cultivated and blossomed and then flowers. We've got a whole new generation that believes that socialism is good. They believe that, you know, the police are, you know, are bad and they, they are so soft that they don't know what hard times are. And, you know, you and I and a lot of people can relate to. If you, even if you look at world history, you know, you know what it's like. Look at people in, in Israel and Gaza and, you know, just getting killed because of who you are. They don't live in that world. They live in the world of social media where the algorithms just feed what they have been. You know, they are inclined to look at and they are convinced that, that the totalitarians and the dictators are going to kill are deserving of being killed and therefore they kill. They can't dig deep into these issues. They can't, they don't see it. They are brainwashed.

Miranda Devine (50:03)

Right.

Jeanine Pirro (50:04)

They are brain. And that's why I worry about the kids who, you know, they, they're not taught how to think, they're taught what to think. And Then if that's what you think, then that's the way things should be.

Miranda Devine (50:16)

Do you see after Trump, do you see yourself?

Jeanine Pirro (50:20)

I don't want to think about again. No, never. No. You know what the difference between me and many others is that this is not a jumping off point to the next spot. This is doing what I love. This is hopefully making a difference, having an impact, getting back to accountability and law and order, making sure that people understand that they can't violate other people. And whether it's at a pizza bombing in Jerusalem or a bombing in Scotland where a plane blows up or the shooting of an intern, or two people will come out of a Capitol museum a week after I'm here and getting shot. Okay, this is what, this is what spurs me on, you know, is a sense of right and wrong and good and evil. You know, we are living in a world where there's a lot of evil, and it has always been about good and evil. I don't want to hear excuses about what you grew up or you prefront the lobe, or you were poor or you were a victim. I don't want to hear that. I listened to that for 30 years and I didn't believe it then. To me, the victim is a victim. The abuser is not the victim. And to me, it's time to settle the scores, to make things right. And that's why I'm here. And after this? I don't know. We'll see.

Miranda Devine (51:48)

I always ask everybody this. Secrets of success. You are successful yourself and you've met lots of successful people. What is it that is the secret.

Jeanine Pirro (51:58)

That you see, Secret to success? It's always hard work. It's always determination. It's always perseverance. It's going to bed at night thinking and waking up with that same thought in the morning. It's an obsession. It is a. It's a. It's a linear line. You know, it's, it's. It just. It's. This is what I want. This is what I need. This is why I took this job in D.C. this is who I am. That's why I'm here.

Miranda Devine (52:28)

And for women, as a woman, as a mother, it's extra complicated. What's the secret there? What's the advice you'd give to other women?

Jeanine Pirro (52:38)

You know, when I was the da, I promoted a lot of women. It was very unusual then. And I hired a lot of women. Women. When I was a da, I thought. I thought it was important that they get a chance, you know? You know, I had judges who Would say to me, oh, yeah, at the sidebar, you have nice legs. Or I like this or I like that. You know, when you're like, I can't believe this. But, you know, it was a different time.

Miranda Devine (53:02)

Yeah.

Jeanine Pirro (53:03)

And I wanted to give women a chance, and they had to be confident. Okay. And I had minorities in the office. I had Spanish speaking people in the office. I promoted African Americans, all that. I did this 30 years ago. That's why I'm so done. Yeah. Before DEI, you know, before. Hashtag, me too. I did all that stuff. You know, it's about being fair, based upon merit. But one of the things that I would tell women who had just had a baby and they were coming back to work, I would always say to them, do not come back unless you've got everything taken care of at home. Because if you don't have the right person caring for your baby, or you don't have the right daycare center or whatever you're using, do not come back. Because I need all of your mentality when you're here. And I understand you're a mother and you've got that tug. A lot of women aren't used to.

Miranda Devine (53:56)

To it.

Jeanine Pirro (53:57)

But for me, I was able to compartmentalize when I was at work. And when I came back to work, I was worried that having been a mother, maybe I couldn't prosecute child abuse homicides, which I was expert at. I did a lot of child abuse homicides. And I was worried having had a baby, that I might not be as tough or I might be weak or.

Miranda Devine (54:21)

No, no.

Jeanine Pirro (54:22)

Have faith in yourself.

Miranda Devine (54:23)

Or maybe more tough.

Jeanine Pirro (54:26)

Yeah, probably. I was. That's. I was different. Sometimes I'm too tough, but that's just who I am. You know, I grew. I. I grew up at a time when I had to fight with men to get an equal footing. And that's okay. That's okay. That's okay.

Miranda Devine (54:45)

Terrific. Thank you, Judge Janine. You've been wonderful.

Jeanine Pirro (54:48)

Thank you. To see you. And I miss New York.

Miranda Devine (54:50)

I know. I'm sure you do. I'm Miranda Devine, and this is podforce One. Thanks for listening and please hit the like and subscribe buttons so that you don't miss any future episode.