Pod Force One – Episode Summary

Episode: Larry Kudlow on how to make a fortune, Trump's real-world tariff logic, reining in the Fed, finding God and beating addiction
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Guest: Larry Kudlow (FOX Business host, former Director of the National Economic Council under Trump)
Date: September 10, 2025

Episode Overview

In this in-depth conversation, Miranda Devine sits down with Larry Kudlow for a candid and wide-ranging discussion. They cover the ongoing debate over Federal Reserve policy and its recent politicization, the logic behind Donald Trump's tariff and trade policy, concerns about America's economic future, Kudlow's personal journey of addiction and recovery, and the central role faith plays in both personal and national renewal. The episode is by turns analytical, sharp, humorous, and deeply personal, offering a look at Kudlow's philosophy on wealth, work, God, and America’s path forward.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Federal Reserve – Politics and Independence

(00:33 – 14:38)

• Kudlow’s Critique of the Fed: Kudlow asserts that the Fed under Jerome Powell became too political and “woke,” citing Powell’s inconsistent interest rate policies and propensity to yield to political winds rather than maintaining independence.

  “I think Trump is right on this. … The longer [Powell] stays, the worse the independence argument gets and the worse the Fed's credibility gets.” (Larry Kudlow, 00:49)

• Inflation and Rate Fluctuations: He criticizes the Fed’s zigzag from pumping money into the economy (“to accommodate the Fed”) to abrupt rate hikes, leading to inflation followed by a “cartoon” brake slam.

  “They step on the brakes in the middle of 2022, having done everything wrong in ’21 and said everything wrong.” (Kudlow, 02:15)

• Cultural ‘Woke’ Agenda: Kudlow highlights the Fed’s move into climate change and DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) policies, arguing this was outside its mandate and unpopular with the public.

  “They were telling banks…don't make loans for fossil fuels. … The Fed set up a lot of DEI offices.” (Kudlow, 04:33)

• Trump’s Approach and Appointments: Kudlow predicts Trump will assert executive control over the Fed, replacing key appointments. He advocates for appointees like Kevin Hassett or Kevin Warsh and a full top-to-bottom Fed review.

  “President Trump’s going to take the Fed over as he should. … I’m for Fed independence, but I don’t think they’re from another planet.” (Kudlow, 08:16)

• Governance and ‘Cause’ for Removal: Discussion over the power of the Presidency to fire Fed governors, referencing Lisa Cook and recent legal challenges, with Kudlow arguing for broad presidential authority.

2. Trump’s Tariff and Trade Policy

(16:05 – 26:23)

• Rethinking Tariffs: Though long a free trade advocate, Kudlow now supports Trump’s “tariffs as leverage” doctrine, claiming it protected US interests and kept global rivals honest.

  “Donald Trump is a free trader. … He wants a world of zero tariffs … but sometimes you have to play hardball.” (Kudlow, 16:18)

• China and Global Trade Imbalances: He credits Trump for exposing America’s losing position in global trade, especially with China, which exploited WTO membership and undercut US jobs via forced technology transfers and subsidies.

  “America was getting ripped off.” (Kudlow, 19:06)

• Measurable Results and Avoiding Trade War: Kudlow insists Trump’s tariffs were measured (not “Smoot Hawley” 1930s-style) and led to dealmaking, not global retaliation.

  “This global trade war, retaliation never happened. … They all capitulated.” (Kudlow, 23:21)

• Onshoring Factories: Highlighting Trump's “factory renaissance” agenda, he links tariffs and tax policies to bringing manufacturing jobs and orders back to the US.

  “He loves factories … between his trade policy and his tax policy, we will see a renaissance of factory building in this country.” (Kudlow, 24:42)

3. Stock Market, Wealth, and Kudlow’s Investing Wisdom

(26:23 – 30:31)

• Magnificent Seven Risk?: While Devine raises concerns about market concentration in big tech, Kudlow is untroubled, urging broad index investing and long-term passive wealth building.

  “Profits are the mother’s milk of stocks … Passive investing beats active investing in the long run. Always.” (Kudlow, 27:02)

• Trump’s Promotion of Stock Ownership: He highlights savings account reforms to get more Americans invested in the stock market.

  “It’s a fabulous idea … They should just buy the damn index … and they’ll get wealthy.” (Kudlow, 30:31)

4. Addiction, Recovery, and Personal Responsibility

(31:06 – 36:41)

• The Dark Side of Wall Street Success: Kudlow candidly recounts his 1980s substance abuse, attributed not to peer pressure or stress but to personal responsibility.

  “I never blamed anyone … it was because of me.” (Kudlow, 31:24)

• Turning Point and Recovery: His wife intervened, sending him to the Hazelden recovery center; it was transformative, leading to lasting sobriety.

  “She sent me away to Hazelden for five months and that was the turning point.” (Kudlow, 33:00)

• 12-Step Program and Spirituality: Kudlow credits the program for instilling humility and surrendering to a higher power.

  “The whole 12 step program…taught me how little power I have over many things in life…gave me a whole different perspective.” (Kudlow, 33:47)

• Catholic Conversion: Sobriety led him to Catholicism; the Mass and lay/priest friends helped him fall “in love with Jesus.”

  “At some point after I was a couple years sober, I just fell in love with Jesus. … it stuck.” (Kudlow, 35:13)

5. Faith in America – Cultural and Political Renewal

(44:04 – 47:53)

• Role of Faith Nationally: Kudlow contends that American renewal is impossible without public religion; credits Trump for restoring religious values to the culture.

  “Putting God back into America. Now that's something. … That's just terrific. … He has put God back into this country.” (Kudlow, 46:15)

• Personal and National Impact: Kudlow links faith and humility to better families, workplaces, and civic life, drawing on his friendship with William F. Buckley and references to American founding principles.

  “It breeds better behavior, and it breeds personal and individual responsibility. … He [Trump] has put religion back into the country.” (Kudlow, 45:31)

6. Secrets to Success – Hard Work and Faith

(48:20 – 52:07)

• Faith and Grit: Kudlow’s advice for young people: keep faith (in God or a higher power) and work harder than you think is possible.

  “When you think you’re working hard, you have to work harder. … That is the key to success.” (Kudlow, 49:14)

• Lifelong Labor: Kudlow, late in his career, still works six days a week, embodying his ethos.

  “Working hard and keeping faith … That’s got to be a big part of success.” (Kudlow, 50:45)

7. Trump’s Character and Personal Bond

(51:16 – 53:36)

• Personal Connection: Kudlow shares affectionate anecdotes about his personal relationship with Trump, portraying the former president as generous and forgiving, and deeply changed by his own experiences.

  “He’s also a very forgiving man. … If I write another book, it’ll be more cultural, personal, faith-based.” (Kudlow, 52:14)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Fed’s politicization:

  “You don’t get in the political season…make big changes in monetary policy. It’s just not done.” (Kudlow, 03:25)

• On tariffs and free trade:

  “Sometimes you have to play hardball. And I have come to agree with that point of view.” (Kudlow, 17:46)

• On recovery and faith:

  “I got caught up in the zeitgeist, I guess. … But I never blamed anyone… It was because of me.” (Kudlow, 31:24) “At some point after I was a couple years sober, I just fell in love with Jesus.” (Kudlow, 35:13)

• On America’s future:

  “Putting God back into America. Now that's something. … He has put God back into this country.” (Kudlow, 46:15)

• On the secret of success:

  “Working hard and keeping faith with some power greater than yourself… That’s got to be a big part of success.” (Kudlow, 50:45)

• On Trump’s character:

  “He’s also a very forgiving man. You can be in the penalty box, but he’ll bring you out of the penalty box.” (Kudlow, 52:14)

Key Timestamps

• [00:33] – Fed policy, Powell, and the politicization of central banking
• [04:28] – Climate & DEI at the Fed
• [09:16] – Trump’s intention to reshape the Fed
• [16:05] – Tariffs, Trump’s trade debate, US vs China
• [19:06] – Exposing trade imbalances, China’s IP theft
• [24:42] – Factory onshoring and economic revival
• [27:02] – Index investing wisdom
• [31:06] – Kudlow’s personal addiction story
• [33:47] – Hazelden experience and recovery philosophy
• [35:13] – Conversion to Catholicism
• [44:04] – Faith, society, and Buckley’s influence
• [46:15] – Trump’s legacy: “Putting God back into America”
• [48:20] – Advice on hard work and success
• [51:16] – Kudlow’s bond with Trump
• [52:14] – Trump’s generosity and forgiveness

Conclusion

This episode offers a panoramic look at Larry Kudlow’s worldview—combining sharp economic analysis, hard-earned investing wisdom, and a deeply moving personal narrative. Listeners get an inside perspective on the Trump approach to economic levers, a no-nonsense take on recovery and faith, and a passionate argument for civic and spiritual renewal in America. As both a public figure and a private man, Kudlow embodies the episode’s essential lesson: lasting success and renewal require faith—and relentless hard work.