Summary5 min read

Pod Force One: Monday Mini — The Battle of Penn Station

Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Date: April 20, 2026
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the high-stakes political and financial drama surrounding the proposed redevelopment of New York City’s Penn Station, with historic rivalries, presidential meddling, and the potential transformation of a notorious “rat hole” into a new city landmark.

Episode Overview

Miranda Devine dissects the ongoing, contentious efforts to rebuild Penn Station, infamously regarded as an eyesore and major commuter frustration. Now at the heart of the debate: President Donald Trump, Madison Square Garden owner James Dolan, and real estate tycoon Stephen Roth, as competing visions vie for New York’s future. The stakes are enormous—potentially reimagining Midtown with an iconic new train hall and sports complex, or settling for a cosmetic facelift. The episode unpacks the power plays shaping the city—and, potentially, the president’s legacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Penn Station’s Reputation and Opportunity

Penn Station is described as "the dingiest part of Midtown," a "squalid underground rat hole" that disrespects hundreds of thousands of commuters daily.
The excitement: With “a hometown builder in chief in the White House,” New York has an unprecedented opportunity to elevate Penn Station into a landmark rivaling Central Park or the Empire State Building.
However, the journey is fraught with obstacles: “The long promised Penn Station redevelopment still may end up as a mediocre compromise because of the big stumbling block of Madison Square Garden, which sits right on top of everything like King Kong dressed as a giant trash can.” (00:58)

2. Power Players: Dolan, Roth, and Trump

James Dolan (owner of MSG) is resolute: “I’m not going to move Madison Square Garden… It’s in a good place right now.” (01:30)
Multiple plans for the site are under consideration. Of these, only the “Grand Penn Alliance” proposal involves relocating the Garden, unlocking transformative architectural possibilities.
Stephen Roth owns nearby land critical to the maneuver, notably the old Pennsylvania Hotel site.

3. Presidential Intervention

President Trump, initially reported as open to the “move the Garden” plan, now prefers a conservative approach: keep MSG atop its current site, but revamp its facade and add an attractive new entrance.
Trump: “It just makes sense.” (03:15)
Trump praises MSG: “It has the best sight lines, the best sound… of any stadium in the country.” (02:50)

4. The Naming Drama: "Trump Station"

Trump says he didn’t suggest naming the new building after himself; Dolan and Roth floated the idea, claiming the transportation unions would be supportive due to their favor for the President. (03:40)

5. The “Grand Penn” Vision vs. Compromise

Advocates of the Grand Penn plan argue relocating Madison Square Garden would:
- Deliver Dolan a free, ultra-modern stadium faster and with no downtime.
- Enable construction of a grand, classical train hall, reminiscent of the original McKim, Mead & White station.
- Allow for optimal train and crowd flow—currently impeded by the Garden’s massive footprint.
Anonymous proponent: “It will be like building a ship in a bottle and the end result will be subpar because Madison Square Garden still sits right on top of the station.” (05:15)
“You could walk the crowd across the road at halftime and not skip a beat.” (04:47)

6. Tom Klingenstein: The Financier’s Vision

Philanthropist Tom Klingenstein, who has invested $4 million in the Grand Penn proposal:
- “Donald Trump is the only human being on earth who can make this happen.” (05:34)
- “The president’s name deserves to be on a big, beautiful building that’s grander than Grand Central, not on the equivalent of an Eng– English basement train hall.” (06:01)
- “Our plan is complete and we are now ready.” (06:58)

7. Cost, Politics, and the Stakes for New York

The Grand Penn vision is notably pricier: potentially $3.5 billion more than the $6–8 billion modest alternatives.
Klingenstein points to a Japanese government promise of $550 billion in US infrastructure investment: “Surely investment in a grand new Trump icon in the heart of the city is more exciting to the Japanese than paying for another natural gas plant in Ohio.” (07:19)
Miranda frames the stakes: “This is New York, the city of big dreams in the land of infinite possibilities. We should go for broke.” (08:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Miranda Devine, on the nightmarish status quo:
“The squalid underground rat hole we call Penn Station would become an uplifting experience for the hundreds of thousands of downtrodden commuters who feel disrespected every day when they pass through.” (00:32)
On the challenge of building with MSG atop Penn Station:
“It will be like building a ship in a bottle, and the end result will be subpar because Madison Square Garden still sits right on top of the station.” (05:15)
Tom Klingenstein, on the opportunity:
“We made a huge mistake when we took down the old Penn Station and we all know it. Here is an opportunity to make amends.” (06:46)
Miranda Devine, on New York’s ethos:
“We’re always told not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but this is New York… We should go for broke.” (08:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:00–01:05 — Overview of Penn Station’s reputation and proposed redevelopment
01:05–02:45 — Discussion of Madison Square Garden’s pivotal role; James Dolan’s intransigence
02:45–03:50 — President Trump’s position; new entrance proposal; naming controversy
03:51–05:20 — Grand Penn plan details; arguments for moving MSG
05:21–07:00 — Tom Klingenstein’s advocacy; financial and civic arguments
07:01–08:15 — Cost obstacles, international investment, and Miranda’s closing reflections

Takeaways

Penn Station’s future is a tug-of-war between grand ambition and pragmatic compromise, with major personalities and billions at stake.
President Trump prefers a less disruptive “facelift” for MSG, but there is a vocal movement demanding a bolder transformation—echoing New York’s legendary capacity for reinvention.
The coming month will be pivotal, as federal officials deliberate and the city’s identity hangs in the balance.

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[00:00]
A
Foreigna I'm back with a new mini episode of Pod Force One. This feature is a little more topical and relevant to my job as a columnist for the New York Post. Today's topic is about the hotly contested battle in New York City to rebuild the dingy rat hole of Penn Station, and now it's engulfed the Oval Office. Thanks to having a hometown builder in chief in the White House, New York has a once in a lifetime opportunity to create an iconic landmark in the dingiest part of Midtown, which would rival Rockefeller Center, Central park and the Empire State Building at the same time. The squalid underground rat hole we call Penn Station would become an uplifting experience for the hundreds of thousands of downtrodden commuters who feel disrespected every day when they pass through. But the long promised Penn Station redevelopment still may end up as a mediocre compromise because of the big stumbling block of Madison Square Garden, which sits right on top of everything like King Kong dressed as a giant trash can. James Dolan, who owns the Garden, did not respond to inquiries Friday, but previously he has been adamant that his prized building is staying where it is. I'm not going to move Madison Square Garden, he said in 2023. It's in a good place right now. Of at least three plans submitted to the federal Transportation Department's beauty contest for the redevelopment, only one, backed by the Grand Penn alliance, involves moving Madison Square Garden to a vacant block across the road to make way for a soaring classical architectural masterpiece even better than the beautiful landmark that was demolished in 19 and its proponents say it won't take any longer to build. After news broke last month that President Donald Trump was open to the idea of replacing Madison Square Garden with the state of the art new stadium across the road, he received an Oval Office visit from two high powered old friends from New York who had other ideas. Dolan and property developer Stephen Roth, who owns most of the land surrounding Penn Station, including the old pennsylvan Hotel site where the proposed new Garden would be built, did not respond to questions Friday about what was discussed. But the president told me on the phone over the weekend that he doesn't want to move Madison Square Garden, which he loves, because it has the best sight lines, the best sound. That's a quote of any stadium in the country. He says he looked at, quote, hundreds of plans for Penn Station, and he prefers a more modest proposal that keeps the Garden where it is, wrapped in a more attractive facade and which demolishes the attached Hulu Theater to build a beautiful new entrance on 8th Avenue, quote, it just makes sense, end quote. He also said it was not his idea to name the new building Trump Station. Dolan and Roth proposed the name to him during the meeting, saying that the transportation unions would be in favor because they are fans of the president. But with the final decision set to be made by next month, New Yorkers who have set their hearts on the Grand Pen proposal are hoping to convince the president that the other proposals are mere facelifts that are like putting another layer of lipstick on a pig. The bidders are all under a gag order from Amtrak until the deliberation process is finished. But one proponent of the grand plan, who asked not to be named, said that Dolan would be getting a brand new stadium for free, which would bring bring him as much as $200 million extra revenue a year without a moment's downtime. The new stadium could be up and running before the Garden was demolished. You could walk the crowd across the road at halftime and not skip a beat. In its place would be built a grand train hall that echoes the McKim, Mead and White architectural treasure that was demolished in 1964. With reconfigured platforms for optimal flow of trains and passengers, it would make the commuter experience pleasure rather than an affront. He also pointed out that it's much easier and faster to construct a new building on the Garden site than to try to refurbish the station with a working stadium above and trains running below, quote, it will be like building a ship in a bottle, and the end result will be subpar because Madison Square Garden still sits right on top of the station. It's hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete and steel supported by massive columns thread down through the platforms and train tracks below, making it impossible to change their configuration. Donald Trump is the only human being on earth who can make this happen, says Tom Klingenstein, the financier and New York philanthropist who has spent more than $4 million to help develop plans for the Grand Pen vision. The president's name deserves to be on a big, beautiful building that's grander than Grand Central, not on the equivalent of an Eng. English basement train hall, he says, quote, under our plan, the new Trump Station will be appropriately bigger and grander than Moynihan Station across 8th Avenue, which was named after the Democrat who made it happen. New York will also get the greatest sports stadium in the country and a huge community park, and it won't take any longer to build. We made a huge mistake when we took down the old Penn Station and we all know it. Here is an opportunity to make amends. Our plan is complete and we are now ready to end quote. The only sticking point is money. The grand plan will likely cost more than the 6 to 8 million estimated cost. For the more modest plans, Klingenstein's estimates perhaps another $3.5 billion more. But with Japan on a promise to Trump to pour $550 billion into infrastructure spending in the U.S. surely investment in a grand new Trump icon in the heart of the city is more exciting to the Japane paying for another natural gas plant in Ohio. We're always told not to let the perfect enemy of the good, but this is New York, the city of big dreams in the land of infinite possibilities. We should go for broke. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to come back on Wednesday for the next episode of Podforce One with Dr. Mehmet Oz. He runs Medicare and Medicaid which which account for one quarter of the federal budget. And as he's found billions of dollars is being stolen by fraudsters. We talk about who the fraudsters are and why they've been getting away with it and how he is stopping them. Plus, the world renowned heart surgeon and original Maha devotee tells us his daily diet secrets for a healthy body. You won't believe what he has for breakfast. All that and more. Hope you can tune in and have a great week.