President Trump, Susie Wiles, VP Vance & More! A Special Best of PF1

Summary

Pod Force One – “President Trump, Susie Wiles, VP Vance & More! A Special Best of PF1”

Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Date: December 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This “Best Of” episode brings together some of the most captivating moments from Miranda Devine’s year of conversations with central figures in the Trump administration and their inner circles. The show offers candid, inside perspectives on power, politics, personal histories, and the ongoing cultural debates shaping America. With featured interviews including President Trump, Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Vice President J.D. Vance, Secretary Scott Besant, and Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, listeners get both policy insights and rare behind-the-scenes glimpses into the personalities driving decision-making in Washington.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. President Trump: On Leadership, Loyalty, and Independence

(00:37–10:47)

• On Elon Musk and Political Disagreements:

  • Trump expresses disappointment about Elon Musk’s public criticism of a legislative bill he believes is transformative. Trump emphasizes the bill’s benefits, including massive tax cuts and reforms (00:37–01:52).

    “This bill is going to turn around this country so fast, your head will spin. And it’s good for everyone… I think he [Elon Musk] feels very badly that he said that, actually.”
    — Donald Trump [01:05–01:52]

• Relationship Dynamics:

  • Trump denies any lasting animosity towards Musk and leaves open the door for reconciliation but prioritizes focusing on “straightening out the country” (02:26–02:30).

• Personal Independence and Origins:

  • Trump credits his independence to early experiences and to “success” across multiple fields. He pushes back on the narrative that he was an outsider in Manhattan, instead seeing himself as a successful non-conformer driven by conviction (02:58–06:49).
  • He shares plans for a White House ballroom project, showing a willingness to break tradition and use his business acumen (05:45–06:11).

• On Confidence, Character, and Upbringing:

  • Trump discusses attending military school at 13, his headstrong nature as a youth, and how parental and childhood influences shaped his energetic approach to life (07:00–07:40).

  • He reveals aptitude tests identified him as having musical talent, including an “ear for music” and his brief stint with the flute (09:06–10:47).

    “I could have been a flutist. And I didn’t particularly like it. I don’t know. It wasn’t for me.”
    — Donald Trump [10:23–10:47]

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2. Susie Wiles: Chaos, Order, and Campaigning

(10:50–21:27)

• On Working with Trump:

  • Wiles finds Trump “predictable and open and approachable and honest and honorable and committed" (10:57–11:33).

  • She manages his temper by solving underlying problems, not considering his frustration unwarranted (11:42–12:04).

  • Notes Trump’s known proclivity for tardiness and “natural chaos” which she helps structure while maintaining room for broad input (12:07–12:51).

    “He prefers as many inputs on any given topic as he can possibly get. And I prefer that for him. It makes for better decisions, but at a certain point, you’ve got to rein it all in.”
    — Susie Wiles [12:51–13:10]

• Traits and Habits:

  • Praises Trump as a voracious reader and highly adaptable communicator (13:15–14:31).

• Loyalty During Adversity:

  • Wiles stayed with Trump during “the dark days” when others left, motivated by shared belief in his vision (15:10–16:10).
  • She discusses a campaign transition from working with Ron DeSantis and overcoming personal and professional setbacks (16:26–16:46).

• Turning Florida Red:

  • Explains the combination of demographic shifts, focused organization, and Republican voter registration efforts that secured Florida for Republicans (17:47–19:07).

• Personal Background:

  • Wiles reflects on growing up with legendary sportscaster Pat Summerall as a father and how a merit-based and gender-blind household shaped her career (19:07–21:27).

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3. Secretary Scott Besant: Silicon Valley vs. Government, Financial Discipline

(21:27–30:56)

• Clashes with Elon Musk:

  • Addresses public confrontations with Musk and differing philosophies (“move fast and break things” vs. “move deliberately and fix things”) (21:27–22:32).

    “I think Elon probably fancies himself more of a Viking. I think I’m more of a ninja sort of submarine services, fires, goes back under.”
    — Secretary Besant [21:51–22:32]

• Government Spending & Debt:

  • Expresses optimism that current policy reforms will curb spending and improve debt-to-GDP. Cites Trump’s trade and deregulation focus (24:02–25:22).

    “Nobody does that better than President Trump.”
    — Secretary Besant [25:22]

• Approach to Multilateral Institutions:

  • Describes shifting U.S. policy at the IMF and World Bank back to “core principles” and away from green/DEI agendas, countering Chinese influence (25:22–26:53).

• Personal History & Lessons in Resilience:

  • Shares impact of father’s financial reversals and how that motivated early self-reliance, responsible finances, and a hardline approach to U.S. debt (27:12–30:56).

    “I think that’s why I am so focused on the debt here and having responsible finances, because that’s one of the things that it always did for me, having that experience early on… I’m going to make sure we don’t do the same thing in the U.S.”—Secretary Besant [29:09–30:04]

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4. Carolyn Levitt: President Trump’s Character and the UFO Question

(31:31–37:03)

• On Trump’s Collaboration and Hospitality:

  • Levitt highlights Trump’s habit of soliciting input from staff and his genuine concern for their welfare, showing a “side of him that most people don’t get to see” (31:42–33:44).

    “He’s very hospitable. … His genuine care for others, no matter who you are, is incredible.”
    — Carolyn Levitt [33:06–33:44]

• Iranian Nuclear Facility Bombing:

  • Discusses being “practically living” in the Situation Room during the high-stakes operation, praising Trump’s focused leadership (33:44–34:13).

    “President Trump made very clear from the outset he had a very specific objective… and executed a very specific and precise plan that successfully achieved that objective.”
    — Carolyn Levitt [34:19–35:01]

• UFOs and Government Transparency:

  • Levitt faces questions about classified UFO information, hints at ongoing investigations, but offers no details (35:01–37:03).

    “We’re continuing to look for the truth and share that truth with the American people.”
    — Carolyn Levitt [35:44–35:50]

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5. Vice President J.D. Vance: Immigration, Welfare, and Political Outlook

(38:39–50:56)

• Democratic Motives on Immigration:

  • Vance argues Democrats use immigration to alter the electoral map and social contract, mixing cynical political motives and “distorted humanitarianism” (38:57–41:49).

    “They were using immigration to seize control illegitimately of the institution of this country. Some of them would say that openly… I think it’s really a disgusting way to think about immigration.”
    — VP Vance [39:20–39:56]

• Welfare Abuse and Housing Crisis:

  • Explains how welfare programs, fraud, and policy loopholes subsidize illegal immigration, making it affordable to undercut American workers and drive up housing costs (42:06–45:43).

    “That completely destroys the ability of Americans to live the American dream. And that’s what those open borders did…”
    — VP Vance [44:01–45:43]

• Deportation & Self-Deportation Progress:

  • Updates on efforts to reduce the number of illegal migrants, claiming 2 million fewer than at the term’s start, and promises to continue removal efforts (47:07–48:27).
  • Uses metaphor:

    “The same way that you eat a very big sandwich, do it a bite at a time.”
    — VP Vance [47:46–47:50]

• On “Dream Ticket” & Relationship with Marco Rubio:

  • Discusses Trump’s suggestion of a Vance-Rubio succession, dismisses tension, and stresses that focus should be on job performance, not future campaigns (48:27–50:56).

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6. Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt: Trump Assassination Attempt, Ep. Advocacy, and Media Tactics

(51:01–58:03)

• Personal Account of Trump Assassination Attempt:

  • Shares the traumatic experience of watching the July 13, 2024 rally shooting on TV as a new mother, Trump’s resilience (“put his fist in the air”), and impact on campaign messaging and Trump’s increased openness about faith (51:01–53:49).

    “I watched live the President almost lose his life… I felt as though the President almost lost his life. The least I could do was get back on television and start speaking on his behalf...”
    — Carolyn Levitt [51:01–51:56]

• Answers on Thomas Crooks and Transparency:

  • Details the lack of new information about Trump’s would-be assassin and continued efforts to seek answers (53:49–54:58).

• Epstein Allegations as Political “Hoax”:

  • Levitt describes the latest Epstein story as a manufactured distraction, orchestrated by Democrats and media, intended to divert attention from substantive policy victories (55:17–58:03).

    “It is a classic playbook of the Democrats using their friends in the fake news to spin up a narrative about the president.”
    — Carolyn Levitt [55:35–55:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump on Personal Conviction:

  • “It’s a conviction I have, it’s a feeling I have. But… a lot of life is common sense, you know, when you say it.” [06:49]

• Susie Wiles on Trump’s Leadership:

  • “He is what you see is what you get… I know what it’s going to be like. It’s going to be breakneck speed to get as much done as fast as possible for the people that need it and matter.” [12:07–12:45]

• Secretary Besant on Childhood Hardship:

  • “I didn’t want to be a victim… You can do one or two things. You could just sit around, wring your hands or you go out, take control of your own life.” [28:18–28:20]

• VP Vance on Immigration:

  • “Some of them would say that openly, by the way. They would actually say we want these new people to come in because we can’t win the votes of the people who are already here. So we’re going to import new voters to replace them.” [39:27–39:43]

• Levitt on Trump’s Assassination Attempt:

  • “I saw him put his fist in the air, which was just such a show of strength and who the President really is.” [51:58]

• Levitt on the Epstein Controversy:

  • “There is literally nothing to hide… this is a classic playbook being run by the Democrats… it’s not a coincidence that this leak came on the morning of the president signing a bill to reopen the government…” [57:00–58:03]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Elon Musk & Loyalty: 00:37–02:30
• Presidential Independence & Confidence: 02:58–06:49
• White House Ballroom Project: 05:45–06:11
• Musical Ability & Early Testing: 09:06–10:47
• Working with Trump (Wiles): 10:57–13:10
• Florida’s Political Shift: 17:47–19:07
• Clash with Elon Musk (Besant): 21:27–22:32
• Government Spending/Debt Plans: 24:02–25:22
• Personal Hardship & Debt Lessons: 27:12–30:56
• Trump’s Hospitality (Levitt): 31:42–33:44
• Iran Nuclear Strike Decisions: 33:44–34:13
• UFO Discussion: 35:01–37:03
• Immigration System Critique (Vance): 38:57–41:49
• Welfare & Housing Impact: 42:06–45:43
• Deportation Progress: 47:07–48:27
• Succession & “Dream Ticket”: 48:27–50:56
• Trump Assassination Attempt: 51:01–53:49
• Epstein “Hoax” Claims: 55:17–58:03

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Tone and Language

Miranda Devine’s interviews maintain a punchy, personal, and revealing tone—allowing guests to share policy and personal conviction, mixing formality with candid, at-times humorous asides and genuine emotion.

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Conclusion

This “Best Of” episode of Pod Force One offers rich revelations about high-level policy, personal histories, and the unconventional leadership at the heart of today’s Washington. With stories ranging from historic policy fights and campaign battles to deeply personal accounts of violence, adversity, and ambition, it captures the motivations and temperaments that define Trump’s inner circle as they look to shape America’s future.

Transcript

[Miranda Devine]

Hello, Pod Force One listeners. It's Miranda. I'm so grateful to all of you who have joined me on this podcast journey this year. I'm also very thankful for all the great guests and conversations I've been able to have, everyone from the President to so many of the smart people that surround him. I've pulled together a few of my favorite moments from these conversations, all in one episode. I hope you enjoy it as you enjoy your Christmas and holiday season. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. What happened with Elon? Is there anything that you can do to forgive him? Could you see that happening?

[Donald Trump]

Well, look, I have no hard feelings. I was really surprised that that happened. He went after a bill. That's phenomenal. It's the best thing we've ever signed in this country. And that's phase one, phase two, phase three, all of a sudden is, you know, it all comes together. It's coming together so well. And when he did that, I was not a happy camper. So it's too bad.

[Miranda Devine]

You said he had problems. What kind of problems? I mean, is it the drugs?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know what his problem is, really. I don't know. I haven't thought too much about him in the last little while. But the bill is so good. When he went after the bill. This bill is going to turn around this country so fast, your head will spin. And it's good for everyone. It's also a tax cut. It's a massive tax cut. It's an extension of debt, which we need. We have to get that. And then we're going to start paying off debt at record levels. It's tariffs on certain people. It's, by the way, no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security. You know, all your promises. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's no tax on overtime. If a worker works overtime, there's no tax. That's going to be a great stimulant for the country. No, I think a bill is great. And he just didn't think. He feels very badly that he said that, actually.

[Miranda Devine]

And maybe it was something else. I mean, he had the fight with Scott Bessant outside your office.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, well, they had. Not a fist fight, you know, people. But I guess they had a little bit of a shouting match. But that's.

[Miranda Devine]

Did you hear it?

[Donald Trump]

That's typical. I heard a little bit. That's sort of typical about, you know, that happens.

[Miranda Devine]

You were very kind to him. I saw you together and I think he treated you a bit like a father. And He.

[Donald Trump]

I was disappointed in him, but, you know, it is what it is that happens, things like that happen. I don't blame him for anything. I was a little disappointed.

[Miranda Devine]

Could you reconcile? Could you reconcile with him, do you think? Could you forgive him?

[Donald Trump]

I guess I could. But you know, we have to straighten out the country. And my sole function now is getting this country back to a level higher than it's ever been. And I think we can do that. I think we're going to do it easily again. I had the best economy in the history of our country for the four years, especially the first three before COVID I mean, we had numbers like we've never had here. I think we're going to top it this term, pretty sure. And the early indication is that we will.

[Miranda Devine]

The thing about you that's I think quite striking is that you are your own man. You're sort of uncontrollable. People can't push you around or own you. And does that come from your childhood being that sort of independence? I ask that because Newt Gingrich has this theory about you and he says that you grew up in Queens and you were never really accepted in Manhattan. And rather than conforming to fit in, you just thought, I don't have to fit in, they'll fit in with me.

[Donald Trump]

You know, what is there is.

[Miranda Devine]

And you just stayed, always stay the same wherever you are.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, well, I think I was accepted in Manhattan. I did really well in Manhattan as a developer. Did some of the best buildings in the country and outside of Manhattan also. But no, I just have my way about me. I want to, you know, if I think I'm right about something, I fight for it, that's all. It's. I don't think it's non conforming, it's just that maybe it's the opposite if I think I'm right. Like on sending troops into la.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

A lot of people say, oh, don't do it. If I didn't do it, you wouldn't have la. Between the fires and now the riots, there'd be nothing left. You have a governor that's incompetent. You have a mayor that's highly incompetent. I mean, she is. She can't even get permits out for people to rebuild. You know, the federal government has their permits out. Yes, federal government is always the last one. And now we're the first one they can't get. Lee Zeldin's done a fantastic job, you know Lee. Yeah, but they can't get the permits out for People to go and rebuild their houses.

[Miranda Devine]

So how do you know, like, how are you so confident in your own judgment that you will go against the grain?

[Donald Trump]

Because they've had success. You know, when you have a lot of success. I've had a lot of success no matter what. I mean, I went to real estate business, I did great. I go into show business. I have the Apprentice. I didn't do anything else. I mean, I had the Apprentice, which was big. I did number one, best selling books. You know, you have a certain success, even though there's somewhat different fields and everything else. And after a while you feel that you're going to be right about something. And the nice part is you can do it through conviction. You know, you really believe it. And if you believe it, makes it a lot easier. But so I don't think, I don't think I'm a rebel. I just feel that I want to do things the way I did them. Even you take a look at what we're doing in Washington D.C. with everything, you know, I'm doing something that's a little unusual. For 150 years, they've wanted to build a ballroom at the White House. I'm good at building ballrooms. I'm good at building period, but I'm good at building it. So we've never had a president that would understand it. And it's a little complex because the site and everything else. And I'm going to give gift the White House, the most beautiful ballroom you've ever seen. We're going to, we're working on it right now.

[Miranda Devine]

When will that be?

[Donald Trump]

A lot of people wouldn't sort of say, no, let's do it. They've wanted it for 150 years. You know, when they have somebody like the head of China or they have the head of France or the head of some country come, they use a tent, they put a tent up. And if it's raining, you're in deep trouble. And we're gonna have a beautiful ballroom. And how long will that take be done before you. I'd say 18 months.

[Miranda Devine]

Wow.

[Donald Trump]

Maybe two years. Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

So have you ever doubted yourself? I've seen videos of you when you were quite young and you were still very self assured and confident. Were you like that from your earliest memories as a little boy?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. It's not. I don't think of it like that. I don't even think about it. I just do whatever I want to do and I just, you know, I seem to be able to get It. Remember where they said Trump was right about everything on the hat? It's a very big set. Trump was. And if you look at the wars and all the different things. Elon agrees with it. Okay. He still agrees with it. Trump was right about everything. A lot of it's common sense.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

And it's not anything. It's a conviction I have, it's a feeling I have. But you. A lot of things. A lot of life is common sense, you know, when you say it.

[Miranda Devine]

And when you were little, though, you said that you were a bit rambunctious, like you had. You were headstrong. You knew your own mind, even as a young boy. And you went to military school at 13, I guess. Was your dad trying to straighten you out?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, he was trying to sort of make me behave a little bit better. No, I really think when people. You're born a certain way. Yeah. And even before you can speak and everything, you're sort of a certain character.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

And as you get older, you don't change that much. You can change a little bit, but, you know, and you want to change for the better. But I really. You're born a certain way. You're born with a certain energy.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

A lot of people don't have energy. If you don't have energy, it's going to be a tough life, but they don't have energy. To be successful, you need energy. You have to be able to go hard and long. Now, you need a lot of other things. You need a lot of things, but you do need energy. I see people with that energy. They're really smart, but they don't have the drive necessary to be successful.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

And when you were quite young, your father sent you for aptitude testing. Do you tell us what happened?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I was sent for aptitude. Like, I just did one over here. I just did a cognitive test, and I aced it. The doctors will tell you I aced it. I'm the only president that's ever done, you know, a cognitive test.

[Miranda Devine]

Joe Biden should have done one.

[Donald Trump]

Well, he wouldn't have gotten past two or three questions. I don't think he wouldn't have done very well. But, no, I'm the only president that's ever done a cognitive test. The doctors say, sir, I did my physical. It came out good. And then they said, sir, would you like to take a cognitive. I said, well, I do. Well, you know, it's Walter Reed. I said, if I do well, nobody's going to write about it. If I do poorly, it's going to be the biggest story in history. Right. So. But I got 100% of the questions. I aced it.

[Vice President Vance]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

The doctors have reported it, so. But when you were little, it's a little risky. You know that, right?

[Miranda Devine]

It was, yeah. But you knew you'd be fine. But when you were little, you were found to be having. Have a musical genius.

[Donald Trump]

That's right. They said, well, my father, mother took me to a place, like an aptitude place to see what I would be good at, what I liked and what my talent was at. At pretty young, like probably 11 or 12. And I went through this process for a couple of days, and they came up to my father. They said, your son is brilliant at music. He'd be an incredible musician. This is not. This is not what my father wanted to hear. You know, this was not the greatest thing, but I do have an ear for music. I mean, I feel, you know, I think music has played a big role. We have. I play great music. People like the music I play. It was funny because my father would not have thought about music for me. But I do. I think I have an ear for music. They play a note and. Like on a piano. And then I remember to this day.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

And then they'd ask you other questions, and then they play notes later on and they'd say, which is the note we played from one hour ago? And I'd, like, get it right, I guess, but. But that was a long time ago.

[Miranda Devine]

But did you ever play an instrument?

[Donald Trump]

I played, like, for very short periods of time. The flute. Would you believe that?

[Miranda Devine]

Did you like it?

[Donald Trump]

I had flute lessons. That's the first person that's ever asked me that crazy question. Yeah, I had flute. Can you believe it? I could have been a flutist. And I didn't particularly like it. I don't know. It wasn't for me, but. And my mother had me with. I had instructors. An instructor come in to teach me how to play the flute. Can you believe that? Who would think? I can't imagine it. An unusual instrument.

[Miranda Devine]

You could maybe still do it.

[Donald Trump]

I doubt it. I don't think so.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you so much, Susie Wiles, for having us in your office. As a boss, what's he like? You must spend hours with him.

[Susie Wiles]

Every day, people ask me, what's it like? What's hard about your job? Here's what's not hard about my job. Donald Trump. Right? He is predictable and open and approachable and honest and honorable and committed and all of those things, which does not mean he can't be irritated or frustrated, but. But I view my job as trying to keep as much of that away from him so that he can think clearly about the big picture. We'll take care of the, the back office, if you will.

[Miranda Devine]

Interesting. What a great way to be. And what's been. Like, how do you handle him when he is irritated or angry?

[Susie Wiles]

Well, I've never found him to be irritated or angry for no reason. So solving the underlying problem is where I focus. He'll be angry. He'll say so. But again, at the end of the day, what he wants from me is to fix whatever made him angry. So I try to go to the root cause, do it that way.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah, good idea. And does he have any annoying habits?

[Susie Wiles]

He's known to be tardy. And so the day gets out of control pretty quickly. But no, that's. He's. He is what you see is what you get. And that's, that's a blessing for a staff member because then I don't wonder, when I come in on Monday, what's, what's it going to be like? I know what it's going to be like. It's going to be breakneck speed to get as much done as fast as possible for the people that need it and matter. And that's really what we do here every day, all day, seven days a week, by the way, Right?

[Donald Trump]

Yes.

[Miranda Devine]

And so you're sort of creating order out of what, a natural chaos.

[Susie Wiles]

There is a natural chaos, and he prefers it. He prefers as many inputs on any given topic as he can possibly get. And I prefer that for him. It makes for better decisions, but at a certain point, you've got to rein it all in. And he's got to make a decision, and he does, and then we execute.

[Miranda Devine]

And he seems very tidy. His desk is always tidy. He seems to like order.

[Susie Wiles]

Very tidy. He's a collector of paper, but we have a great system to make sure we comply with all the records requirements here. But he reads a voracious reader. Reputation is different. But I can tell you a voracious reader. How many times have you gotten notes from him, Miranda? When you read something, 100%.

[Miranda Devine]

He reads the New York Post covered.

[Press Secretary]

Yes, he does.

[Susie Wiles]

And the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times and sometimes the Washington Post and anything else that comes his way. Financial times and all of the periodicals. So if you read the day's newspaper, the day's news, you can almost predict what the day is going to bring. And that is on top of whatever was supposed to be going on that day, too. So I feel like I play catch up all day, every day. But the progress that he's making is so enormous. I mean, it's worth it. It is worth whatever we have to do to get him to a place where he can achieve what he's achieved in six short months.

[Miranda Devine]

And I guess his being on top of what's current in the news means that he's more adaptable with whatever policies he has or how he messages them.

[Susie Wiles]

Yeah. And he's been. He's. He's always been sort of a TV guy, but now he's truthing and tweeting and. And being on podcasts like yours. Yeah, He's. He's a very adaptable communicator. And in these times, you know, you don't just. With all due respect to cbs, you don't turn on CBS and watch Walter Cronkite and you're done. Yeah, it is all day, every day, in every. Every mode that's available. And frankly, that was a big key of success to success in the campaign. He spoke in every way somebody could receive his message, and it's still like that now.

[Miranda Devine]

And you were there. I mean, in his really dark days. I was, yeah. So, I mean, obviously he must appreciate the loyalty, because a lot of people didn't stick with him then. But why did you do that?

[Susie Wiles]

I believe fundamentally, thoroughly, completely in what he believes. And I believed he could and would come back. I believed he would overcome everything that was thrown at him, which was everything. And then when we got to an actual formal campaign, all the. All the campaign activities, we had a great team, I had great partners. But. But it's pretty prescriptive. You know, you've. You figure out what your policy is. You talk about him everywhere you can. In his case, you have rallies of tens of thousands. In some cases, hundreds of thousands in between.

[Miranda Devine]

Courtroom appearance.

[Susie Wiles]

That was a bad couple of months.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Susie Wiles]

But he managed.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah, he managed to slow him down.

[Susie Wiles]

Never, never in the dark days when truly they were persecuting him. He put a suit on and a tie on and came to the office and worked all day, every day.

[Miranda Devine]

Right. And now during this period, you had worked for Ron DeSantis, and then there was quite a nasty falling out, which I only realized recently. They were very nasty to you and tried to really destroy your career, Is that right?

[Susie Wiles]

Yes, that's right. But it's in my rearview mirror.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Susie Wiles]

And I think he's governing Florida, which is my home state. He's a good governor, and whatever personal differences he had, or whatever deficiencies he thought I had are long past my thinking about them.

[Miranda Devine]

And what went wrong with his campaign. I mean, he seemed to start off with so much promise, and then Donald Trump pretty much demolished him, correct?

[Susie Wiles]

Pretty comprehensively, yes, he did, yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

So what was wrong? Apart from having lost you?

[Susie Wiles]

No, it had nothing to do with me. It was the President's time, and he did the things that a candidate has to do to get through those early primary states, the first four in particular. The President had done it before. He knew what was involved. We had an organization and apparatus that supported him, and frankly, there was never any question that it was going to end up like it did.

[Miranda Devine]

And you managed to get Florida. I mean, I think he got triple the Florida vote. You managed to turn Florida into a Republican state from. It was a blue state. What's the secret?

[Susie Wiles]

So the, it's, it's the influx benefited by the influx of people moving to Florida. So there's, there's more to work with.

[Donald Trump]

Right.

[Miranda Devine]

All those New Yorkers.

[Susie Wiles]

All those New Yorkers, people from New Jersey and California that came to Florida came because they weren't happy with where they came from in so many cases. So it's pretty easy when you come from a blue state, that's failing you to say, well, you should think about this, this thing becoming a Republican. And in Donald Trump's Republican world, the cell was incredibly easy. In fairness, he had, he had three campaigns there to register voters. And also Ron DeSantis and most importantly, Rick Scott, in his eight years of being governor, really made. Made a difference. These, these individuals prioritized voter registration. And then if you register them, they're the most likely to vote. And you know who they are because you registered them. So getting out the vote is a little bit easier. So it all kind of worked synergistically in Florida. And now it's red for sure.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. Now, let's go back to your childhood. Your dad, Pat Summerall, was a legendary sportscaster, also a talented athlete. He'd also had a very difficult childhood, I think, and which then later came back in the form of alcoholism. Tell me about your growing up, you know, under the shadow, I guess, of this amazing father that everybody loved. And how would. An impact that had on you? I know you were very sporty as well.

[Susie Wiles]

I was back in the day. I grew up, grew up in the 60s when in most families, the, the daughters, the girls didn't have all the same opportunities that the boys had. And in my family, we did. He would never have thought of Giving my brothers an opportunity that he didn't give me and that I didn't realize at the time that was unusual. But I look back at it now and realize I don't think I would have been able to do the things I've been able to do, really gender blind, because that's how I was raised. And my mother was the same. So I grew up in a household where everybody was equal and it was a merit based household.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Susie Wiles]

You know, 100%. And, and that's just kind of who I, who I am because of it.

[Miranda Devine]

And you were the oldest with two younger brothers.

[Susie Wiles]

Right.

[Miranda Devine]

So did that make you a bit of a tomboy? What was your attitude?

[Susie Wiles]

Not so much. You know, I did the whole home EC thing and all that, but I. But we were. Everybody in the family was very athletic and punishingly so. Which.

[Miranda Devine]

How?

[Susie Wiles]

Well, you know, in Florida, when nobody. You could always get a tennis court at noon because what fool would play? But we did. And we all played every sport and did everything. And when my brothers misbehaved, my mother would send them out to run it off. And we just sort of grew up that way. We grew up competitively, but it was a healthy competition. And because you earned what you got in our family, we all earned it. And it was an unusual thing. Maybe it's unusual now. It was certainly unusual in the 60s.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you very much, Secretary Besant, for being our second guest on Pod Force One. Elon Musk was a little bit of a thorn in the side, I think, for a few of the cabinet members, including you. And I asked President Trump about the famous stoush between you and Elon Musk where there was a shouting match outside his office and Elon Musk reportedly shoved you. Is that true?

[Secretary Besant]

We have had disagreements, but we both want to get to the same place. We both want to eliminate the waste, fraud and abuse in government. The Silicon Valley mode of operation is move quickly and break things. I always say here at treasury, we move deliberately and fix things. I think Elon probably fancies himself more of a Viking. I think I'm more of a ninja sort of submarine services, fires, goes back under. And look, everybody's very passionate about doing the best job for President Trump and the American people.

[Miranda Devine]

And did you call him a total fraud?

[Secretary Besant]

Absolutely not.

[Miranda Devine]

And I mean, he said that he was going to save a trillion dollars. Is that in spending? I mean, how do we get the spending under control? I guess if Doge can't do it?

[Secretary Besant]

Well, I think what Doge has done, that's Very important is Elon set the pace and Doge is a movement, so he set the base. And look, he was vilified by the press, by the Tesla customers, and I think.

[Miranda Devine]

And that probably put stress on him.

[Secretary Besant]

Oh, I, I would have been, yeah. I mean, and the personal safety, domestic terrorist attacks on Tesla vehicles, it was insane. Yeah. And I think in a way that the base that he set and some of the people he's brought into government and the ethos. So I think of Doge as an ethos. And to the extent that Elon has departed physically, I think that ethos is there. And the momentum for what he's done will yield bigger and bigger savings over time.

[Miranda Devine]

He is right about the debt, though, isn't he? I mean, it is a train wreck ahead. At some point, is there any way of. The debt ceiling obviously isn't working. Is there any way of dealing with the debt in our lifetime?

[Secretary Besant]

What we're trying to do is there are two ways to fix the debt. One, spend less. And we are getting spending under control, whether it's the House bill or the Senate bill, we're probably going to cut $1.5 or $2 trillion of spending. And then through President Trump's trade policies, tax policies and deregulation policies, we're going to grow faster. So what's really important is the debt to gdp. So it's that number. So we're going to grow the GDP and then shrink the growth of the debt, and that completely changes the trajectory. So we were left with a Mess. It was 6.5, 6.7% deficit to GDP. So imagine a household that's overspending by that much every year. And we're going to bring that down slowly. And I've said I'd like to see the deficit get back to something with a three in front of it by the end of the president's term in 2028. That's about the long term average. And we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. And we are constraining the spending and we're going to grow the economy. Nobody does that better than President Trump.

[Miranda Devine]

And in the budget, there's a measure to increase the amount of money that we put into the imf. Is that. I mean, do you think it's enough? And why are we doing that?

[Secretary Besant]

We are going to give the multilateral development banks a chance. And I am in contact with the head of the imf, the head of the World Bank. And what's happened is the Democrats just let them do what they wanted and let them create these green agendas, climate agendas, DEI agendas, and they just got so far off course. Republicans had never paid much attention to them because they didn't really like them. And it was what I would call benign neglect. And I have this saying, nature may abhor a vacuum, the Chinese don't. So the Chinese have just moved into these institutions and are trying to take them as much of the global south, the brics. So I gave a speech during IMF World Bank Week here in Washington, and I said, we're going back to basics, core principles, and we'll see. I'm optimistic that we can leverage our, the largest shareholders. I'm optimistic that through capital contributions we can leverage our shareholdings and then leverage our influence. But we're going to do it properly and we're going to be in it to win it.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. Now, let's just talk about your childhood. What makes you tick? You grew up in a small town, I guess in South Carolina. I was impressed to hear that your father had the largest science fiction collection in South Carolina. I'm a sci fi buff myself. What was he like?

[Secretary Besant]

Look, he loved to read. I think that I knew I could show you Alpha Centauri on a map before I could show you Chicago. And he'd sit and we'd sit, we'd talk, we'd look at the stars. We talk about who was out there when we were going to be able to go out there. One of my childhood memories is being woken up and to watch Neil Armstrong via walk on the moon. And so he was a great dreamer. He was a great dreamer. Not always a great executor.

[Miranda Devine]

Yes. So he went broke, didn't he?

[Secretary Besant]

Twice.

[Miranda Devine]

Twice, right. And what impact did that have on you? I think you said watching the family home that's been in the family for generations get sold off.

[Secretary Besant]

Well, that or watching some the family belongings get carried out, things like that. And how old were you first time? Nine, Right? Eight. Nine. So I got my first job when I was nine.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Donald Trump]

Because of that?

[Secretary Besant]

Well, yeah, I didn't want to be a victim and it was okay. You can do one or two things. You could just sit around, wring your hands or you go out, take control of your own life, which I did at age nine.

[Miranda Devine]

What did you do?

[Secretary Besant]

I had two jobs actually. One, I worked on the beach putting out umbrellas and chairs because, you know, as a lifeguard you're supposed to do like the one thing, not get your hair wet. So I did that. And then I also worked On a restaurant, bussing tables.

[Miranda Devine]

Wow.

[Secretary Besant]

I can tell you that's why I support the President's no tax on tips. I was getting tips when I was nine years old.

[Miranda Devine]

You knew what it was like. And your father. So did it break him? I mean, what, what was the impact on him? I mean, your parents split up, didn't they?

[Secretary Besant]

Yeah, well, my mom was married five times.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Right.

[Vice President Vance]

Wow.

[Miranda Devine]

Twice to your father.

[Secretary Besant]

Twice to my father. Kind of like Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. So there's a lot of passion there.

[Miranda Devine]

He was the love of her life.

[Secretary Besant]

Allegedly. She. And. But I think that's why I am so focused on the debt here and having responsible finances, because that's one of the things that it always did for me, having that experience early on. Because, you know, I can tell you our family had been, we, one of the first arrivals in South Carolina. We had been affluent for 250, 300 years. And then just some mistakes he made. Too much real estate leverage, some neglect, that all of a sudden the lifestyle ended.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Secretary Besant]

And I'm going to make sure we don't do the same thing in the U.S. it's the 250th anniversary next year, and we are not going to make. Make the same mistakes my family did. The United States is going to be affluent for the next 250.

[Miranda Devine]

And what did that mean for you, you know, at that tender age that the lifestyle changed? I mean, did you have to go to a different school?

[Secretary Besant]

Yeah, it's all those things. I think my golf game would probably be much better if I'd been golfing instead of working. But again, it also taught me this incredible independence. It's incredible self sufficiency. And it also. You're never afraid of anything. Anything's possible.

[Press Secretary]

Right.

[Miranda Devine]

The worst has happened.

[Secretary Besant]

One of the worst things has happened. So my first job in New York, I think some people might have thought it would have been beneath them, but I took it because it was a great chance to be a stock market analyst. But it was also the fellow who owned the firm said, oh, you can sleep on the sofa at the office.

[Vice President Vance]

Oh, really?

[Secretary Besant]

It was great. It was great. I had a free place to live in Manhattan at age 19.

[Miranda Devine]

Director Gabbard, thank you so much for joining Pod Force One.

[Vice President Vance]

Thank you.

[Miranda Devine]

President Trump, what do you. Is there anything about him that surprises you? One on one? What's he like?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I appreciate how, how really collaborative he is. You know, when, when there's a bunch of us in the room or a few people in the room, he's frequently asking Those who are in the room at any given time, hey, what do you think about this? And sometimes they agree with his position. Other times they say, well, no, actually, I think this is a different consideration. And he actually really listens. Another thing that really struck me about him when I was first campaigning for. For him in this past 2024 election, it was. It was really the first time I really started to spend more time with him was how no matter where we were, the first thing that he would do before a meeting would start, for example, he would come in and make sure that everyone was taken care of. He says, has anybody fed you? Has anybody brought you water? Do you want anything to drink? I was at, you know, we were. We had meetings at Bedminster at one point in time, and, you know, he was going and checking on everything in Bedminster to make sure it was just the way it should be, just looking at pictures and what should be hung where and is it hung straight? And I was taking a phone call in one of the. The side rooms, and he poked his head and he's like, are you doing okay? You got everything you need? I was like, yes, Mr. President, I'm good.

[Miranda Devine]

He's very hospitable.

[Carolyn Levitt]

He's very, he's. And, and it's a genuine care. Again, I've seen it and experienced it over and over again. Every time we're in the Oval Office briefing him on intelligence or on a certain issue. You know, even in the Situation Room, when a very intense conversation is happening, hey, make sure everybody has something to drink. Do you guys want any snacks? Like, he. His genuine care for others, no matter who you are, is incredible. And I think it's a side of him that most people don't get to see.

[Miranda Devine]

And the Situation Room there were. During the bombing campaign of the Iranian nuclear facilities, there were stories being written about how you were on the outer. You weren't in the Situation Room.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I practically lived there alongside everyone else during that period of time. And again, President Trump's leadership, very precise leadership, is what led to the success of that operation.

[Miranda Devine]

Were you worried at all that it was going to turn into World War Three?

[Carolyn Levitt]

No, no. Our job is to be able to play out, hey, here's different scenarios that we may have to consider. Here's what happens if this, here's what happens if that. But President Trump made very clear from the outset he had a very specific objective, which, unfortunately, a lot of previous presidents don't know what their objective is, which is why we see these disastrous wars and regime change, wars that turn into decades long conflicts. He had a very specific objective and he had executed a very specific and precise plan that successfully achieved that objective.

[Miranda Devine]

And a couple of quick questions. Sorry to keep, keep you, but there's so much to ask you. UFOs and there's been a lot of.

[Carolyn Levitt]

My husband is in the corner for the record, pumping his fist right now. But you're asking this question.

[Miranda Devine]

So I mean, is there anything. We've had some declassification of some very strange videos that look like they are, you know, unidentified flying objects. Is there anything in the files that you think you could find or you have found?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Nothing that I'm prepared to talk about today.

[Miranda Devine]

So watch this space.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Say what?

[Miranda Devine]

Watch this space.

[Carolyn Levitt]

We are contin. I'm just going to say this.

[Susie Wiles]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

We're continuing to look for the truth and share that truth with the American people.

[Miranda Devine]

The truth is out there. Yes, it is. So do you believe that there could be aliens?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I, I, I honestly like my personal belief. I have my own views and opinions.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Carolyn Levitt]

In this role I got to be careful with, with, with, with what I share.

[Miranda Devine]

Very interesting.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And I'm laughing, my husband's laughing in the corner because he, we have these same conversations and obviously I don't share no. Any classified information.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Outside of my building with those who have clearances. But it's, it's, this is, this is fun that he's here to watch this.

[Miranda Devine]

Right? Yeah. Because it's so interesting. I think it's one of those burning things. Of course, we grew up with.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Of course. Yeah. There, there are a lot of questions and there's, there's a lot that's been put out there and, and there's, you know, I, I'm still going through and looking through what, what do we know and what is it that we don't know.

[Miranda Devine]

And the New Jersey, the strange objects over New Jersey were drones.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I still have a lot of questions around that.

[Press Secretary]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, I've heard, I've heard what the, the public official line is. I just personally still have a lot of questions that are unanswered.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Because it wasn't just New Jersey was happening in different parts of the country.

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[Miranda Devine]

Thank you Vice President Vance, for joining Pod Force One. Why do you think Joe Biden and the Democrats. I mean, I've got that theory about Joe Biden sort of trying to save his soul, but why do you think the Democrats did this? Was it really just to juice up the census or get more voters?

[Vice President Vance]

I think it's complicated. I try to understand everybody's perspective, even when I disagree with them strongly. I think the most obvious thing is that it completely distorts the democratic process in this country. When you let in millions upon millions of people, some of them will eventually get the ability to vote. It certainly distorts the congressional maps. And so I do think that they were using immigration to seize control illegitimately of the institution of this country. Some of them would say that openly, by the way. They would actually say we want these new people to come in because we can't win the votes of the people who are already here. So we're going to import new voters to replace them. I think it's really a disgusting way to think about immigration, but some of them said that. Now, if I'm being a little bit more charitable, I think that was certainly going on. I also think that there is this distorted humanitarian thing going on where any enforcement, any law enforcement, period. These people have convinced themselves as somehow Unchristian or immoral. I think that's the wrong attitude to take. Because when you, you don't enforce the law against the people who violate the law, you empower the sex traffickers, you empower the murderers, and you empower the drug dealers. And so. And you bankrupt Medicare and you bankrupt, Absolutely, you bankrupt the country. And so I think some people were motivated by a distorted humanitarian impulse. I think a lot of people just wanted to import voters. But regardless of the answer, I think the only thing that is both consistent from a humanitarian perspective, that is actually consistent with the duty that we owe to the American people and also is just good for the country is to do what President Trump has done, which is close the border and to ensure that anybody who comes into the country has to come through the legal pathway that we've agreed on. There's another thing that's going on, Miranda, that I think Democrats really underappreciated how bad it was for the country. You know, okay, our immigration policy is set in theory by Democratic policy. You vote for congressmen and women, they enact the immigration policy. The President, United States enforces that immigration policy. When you have millions upon millions of people coming into this country illegally, it violates the fundamental social contract that the American people get to make our immigration law. Not a lawless American president completely disregarding that law. And that's what happened is a lot of Americans looked at our border and said, wait a second. And they are actually violating the law to let people come in, which drives up the cost of housing, actually has a lot of people competing for Americans or competing against Americans for American jobs. And you do it in this fundamentally illegitimate way, because if Joe Biden stood before the American people and said, I'd like to let 5 million low wage immigrants into this country every single year, the American people would say no. But he didn't ask the American people. He just did it without asking permission. I think that's illegal, but I also think it delegitimizes the entire immigration system in this country.

[Miranda Devine]

But remember in the Democratic primaries when all the candidates, including Joe Biden, were standing up on stage and they all were asked a question about, would you give illegal migrants free health care? And they all put the hand up and said, of course, it's just an article of faith in the Democratic Party.

[Vice President Vance]

It's completely an article of faith. And think about how bizarre that is, right? These programs exist as part of the social contract for United States citizens. And you pay into this system. And if you need it, if you get down on your luck or you get to the point where you can't afford certain benefits, then you are able to take out of this system. That's the exchange that we have with our fellow citizens, in particular with our old age health insurance program. It is that you pay into the system your entire life. And when you get to the point where you're retired, you get access to high quality health care. Right? That's the whole idea. If you're going to give Medicaid and Medicare benefits to illegal aliens, you completely destroy that system, you bankrupt it, and you make it so that Americans themselves are not able to access that system. I saw a chart, it was maybe yesterday or the day before Marin. It asked what share of illegal alien households compared to native born American households are accessing welfare. And the answer was native born American households at something like 30% for illegal alien households at 60%. Now what? Democrats and their allies in the media will say, no, no, no, no, no, that's not how it works. Because it says in the law that illegal aliens are not allowed to access welfare benefits. But there are innumerable exceptions to this rule. For example, the state of California under Gavin Newsom gives Medicaid benefits to illegal aliens. The housing benefits, while they're not supposed to go to illegal aliens. There's a lot of fraud. And then on top of the fraud you have, if an illegal alien comes in and has a baby, then that baby can then access housing benefits through the parents, even though the parents are illegal aliens themselves. So there are all of these ways in which people are able to game the system. And it's why 60% of illegal alien households are benefiting from all welfare programs. That's how you bankrupt this country and destroy those programs for the people who actually need it.

[Miranda Devine]

And that's how they can afford to take slave labor way.

[Vice President Vance]

Exactly.

[Miranda Devine]

Because they're subsidized.

[Vice President Vance]

The tax is such an important point, Miranda, and it's something people don't appreciate. And by the way, they're willing to accept a standard of living that most Americans won't accept and shouldn't have to accept. And this was, if you remember, the big controversy about all of the migrants who came into Haiti. You know, 20,000 immigrants, Haitian migrants in a town of 40,000 people. So you blink your eyes in Springfield, Ohio, and you wake up and literally a third of the population of your town is now Haitian immigrants and eating cats and dogs. Eating cats and dogs. Now Biden paroled those immigrants. And what does that mean? Those immigrants were now able, even if they didn't have kids. All of them were able to access housing benefits. So I would talk to constituents in Springfield, Ohio. This is when I was, I was still a senator. This was before I was the vice presidential nominee. And here's the situation they would describe to me that happened in Springfield, Ohio. So you're a landlord and you're renting, let's say, a three bedroom house to a family of four. Family of five. Okay? They're paying, let's say, $1,000 a month a couple of years ago in Springfield, Ohio to rent that house. Now all of a sudden, four families of Haitian migrants come in, each of them getting $1,000 per family. And they're willing to put 20 people into a three bedroom house. So what does that do? That prices all of the American citizens out of those houses. That drives up the rents for everybody. Because now you have a three bedroom house that you can rent for $4,000 a month or $3,000 a month. Month instead of $1,000 a month. That completely destroys the ability of Americans to live the American dream. And that's what those open borders did and creates division.

[Miranda Devine]

And of course it does.

[Vice President Vance]

But how could it not create division? I mean, let's say you're living in a house and your neighbors move out. We can hear Atlas shaking, shaking outside. He must just come in from outside. But you have, you have. So let's say a family of five that you've known for five years, 10 years, moves out of the house, is actually evicted from the house because there are people who are going to pay more for rent. And then what happens is 20 people move into a three bedroom house. 20 people from a totally different culture, totally different ways of interacting. Again, we can respect their dignity while also being angry at the Biden administration for letting that situation happen and recognizing that their next door neighbors are going to say, well, wait a second, second, what is going on here? I don't know these people, they don't speak the same language that I do. And because there are 20 in the house next door, it's a little bit rowdier than it was when there was just a family of four. A family of five. It is totally reasonable and acceptable for American citizens to look at their next door neighbors and say, I want to live next to people who I have something in common with. I don't want to live next to four families of strangers. And the fact that we had an immigration system that actually promoted that division is a real, real disgrace of the Biden administration.

[Miranda Devine]

And are you going to be able to remove all of those illegal migrants that came in during the Biden administration.

[Vice President Vance]

We're trying to. Yeah, we're trying to remove as many as we possibly can. So I haven't seen the numbers in the past couple of weeks, but as of about a month ago, the net number of migrants in our country had gone down by about 2 million. And that was a combination of deportations and what we call self deportations, because, you know, we're kind of putting it out there and saying, look, you are in the country illegally. We invite you, and in some ways, we'll even incentivize you to go back home and to actually, if you want to come to the United States, to come through legal channels and not to come into the country illegally. So we've got 2 million fewer than there were at the start of the term. That's about eight months in. And again, that's a great credit to the president and the entire team. Yeah. But there's a lot to go. We're just going to keep on working at it, and we're going to try to chip away at that as much as possible. I remember during the campaign, Miranda, people would ask me, how do you possibly deport 10 million people? How do you possibly deport 18 million people? And I say the same way that you eat a very big sandwich, do it a bite at a time. And right now, we've taken about 2 million out of the country. We're going to keep on working at it. It's going to be much, much higher by the end of the president's administration. I think that how much higher is just a function of how much we put the pedal to the metal. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to do everything that we possibly can to actually correct the problem of the Biden border invasion.

[Miranda Devine]

Now, President Trump's been saying quite often about the dream ticket that he's got now for his succession, which is you and the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.

[Vice President Vance]

He said that privately. Did or a couple of weeks ago. But I was like, I wonder how long it's going to take for him to say it publicly.

[Miranda Devine]

He's been saying it ever since. So how do you feel about that? And have you talked to the Secretary Rubio about it?

[Vice President Vance]

I've joked with the secretary about it. So the president first raised this with me probably six months or so ago during just one of our private lunches that we try to get lunch every couple of weeks just to catch up on what's going on. And Talk about things. He mentioned it probably six months, months or so ago. And I mentioned to the secretary in jest, but it feels so premature because we're still so early. And what I always say to people is, if we take care of business, the politics will take care of itself. And we're nine months into this thing. We've done a lot of good. There's a lot more work to do because, I mean, look, the thing that I most worry about is that Biden left us a terrible affordability crisis. We've got to make life more affordable for American citizens again. We've chipped away at that problem, but there's a lot more work to do there. So my attitude is, the American people elected me to be vice president. I'm going to work as hard as I can to make the president successful over the next three years and three months. And if we get to a point where something else in the offer, let's, let's handle it then, but let's at least get through the next couple of years and do good work for the American people. Before we talk about politics, the president.

[Miranda Devine]

Doesn'T mention who will be running for president and who vice president. Now, everyone assumes it would be you, but Marco Rubio is 13 years older. He's run for president before. Would there be any tension there?

[Vice President Vance]

First of all, no, there's not going to be any tension. Marco is my best friend in the administration. He and I work a lot together, and we really do. I think a lot of the good work that we've been able to do as an administration is because we're all able to work together. And again, this is why I say worrying too much about the politics, actually, I think makes you worse at the job that you have. I never want to wake up. And so far, I have never woken up and thought to myself, how do I make myself president, United States? What I wake up and think to myself is, how do I do a good job as vice president? And I think Marco Rubio asked himself, how do I do a good job as Secretary of State? And that should be the question that each of us keeps on asking ourselves.

[Miranda Devine]

Today we're at the White House with the President's press secretary, Carolyn Levitt.

[Press Secretary]

I'll never forget the moment. I had just brought my son home from the hospital. He was three days old on July 13th. He was born on July 10th. And my husband and I were sitting in our living room in our home in New Hampshire. And I said, the president has a rally today. Let's turn on the tv while this beautiful babies just sleeping and hanging out, you know, newborn stage. There's a lot of sleep time and nap time. And I turned on the television and it was moments later where I watched live the President almost lose his life and watched my colleagues and friends whom I was working with on the campaign, who have been my friends for many years, running from the sound of gunfire. And obviously that's very traumatic for anyone, but especially a post postpartum mom, you know, my emotions were running really high, and I immediately picked up the phone and started calling to make sure everything was okay. And I got in touch with my colleague Steven Chung, who assured me the President was at the hospital, he was okay.

[Miranda Devine]

Were you worried that he'd been killed?

[Press Secretary]

I didn't know. Just like everyone else in the country in the world, you saw him go down. I mean, of course I saw him put his fist in the air, which was just such a show of strength and who the President really is. But in that moment, I felt as though the President almost lost his life. The least I could do was get back on television and start speaking on his behalf and fighting to win the election that he was again risking his life to win. And so we had a TV studio built in our. And I stayed home with my baby and hopped on TV in between nap time and feedings and just worked it out. And I look back and think, I don't know how I did it, but I did by the grace of God and a lot of support from a really good husband.

[Miranda Devine]

Yes, well, you did a brilliant job. And honestly, what a time to be part of that campaign. And the RNC was immediately afterwards, and there was the President sporting a bandage on his ear. Did it change him? I mean, you know him pretty well.

[Press Secretary]

I do. I know him really well, and I think it probably did in many ways. You know, he certainly. I've seen him speak more about his faith since that day in Butler, because afterwards, so many people around the world told him that they watched a miracle take place. And it was a miracle, and there's no other way to describe it. He slightly turned his head in an unfamiliar direction that he usually doesn't at that time in a speech. And the bullet hardly struck his head. I mean, it just missed his head. And you think about that and the odds, it can only be described as a miracle. And I think he knows that. And I know millions of Americans around the country believe that. And that, you know, God saved President Trump in that moment is just amazing to think about.

[Miranda Devine]

And Thomas Crooks, the assassin, was Killed, he was shot dead by the snipers. He was cremated. There are a lot of sort of questions about him. We don't know very much about him. And I know when I interviewed President Trump at the very beginning of this term in about February, he at that moment said, I need to know more, I deserve to know more. He said to his Secret Service people there, and then, and then the FBI was supposed to, but there's still no information, at least that's public.

[Press Secretary]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

Is there anything, I mean, is he satisfied with what he's found out so far?

[Press Secretary]

You know, I don't want to speak for him on that because it is such a personal thing, but I do know that he has inquired with the Secret Service and the FBI and it was earlier in the administration where he asked them, you know, I want an updated briefing on what happened. Do we know any more than when I was briefed immediately following the days after Butler, because the Secret Service and FBI did at that time under the Biden administration, of course, come and brief the President. So he's been briefed by his own people on the matter and whether he's satisfied, that's only a question he can answer.

[Susie Wiles]

I can't answer it for him.

[Miranda Devine]

But there are so many questions out there and I mean, you know, did he act alone, et cetera? And it's, you know, it's over a year, it's 60 now.

[Press Secretary]

Yeah, I mean, those questions are definitely deserving of answers and I understand why the public wants those answers and I believe the President does, too.

[Miranda Devine]

The latest big drama for them is the Epstein, the latest on the Epstein stuff. And you rebutted that immediately, saying it's another hoax, blah, blah. How is that playing out? And do you think that it's going to take a lot of your time going forward?

[Press Secretary]

Well, we certainly hope not because I think the President is wanting very much to focus on the issues that he was elected to solve, like affordability and rising prices and, you know, our border. We're continuing to do great work there. The trade deals again, everything that's going on overseas and that is what he's focused on. But if you look at how this Epstein story sort of evolved over the past week, it's classic Washington hoax. Yes, you have Democrats on the Oversight Committee leaking redacted information to their favorite reporter at CNN who then pops the story with that redacted information and does not reveal that the unredacted version is available. And the unredacted version proves that the so called victim in this email is a woman who is unfortunately deceased, but prior to her death, said on numerous occasions that President Trump never did anything wrong and was always incredibly friendly in her interactions with him. And so it's a purposeful leak to try to manufacture this news cycle to drag the president. And we've seen this play out so many times. It is a classic playbook of the Democrats using their friends in the fake news to spin up a narrative about the president. And so we just don't. We don't tolerate it. We don't give in. We just call it out for what it is, and we move on and we focus on the issues that we know the President was elected on. And I would just add one more thing on Epstein. I mean, the Department of Justice has turned over tens of thousands of pages to the House Oversight Committee and to the American people. I mean, they released everything that's legally releasable online or to the House Oversight Committee. They also tried to move grand juries to unseal documents in various states, and unfortunately, those judges declined, and they've been fully cooperating with the House Oversight Committee. So this idea that there's files that the DOJ is hiding or that this administration is not being transparent is just totally false. It's a fallacy. And I understand people have questions, and when you're on the outside, you're skeptical of government, and people should be, but there is literally nothing to hide. And President Trump has maintained that this entire time. And so, again, this is a classic playbook being run by the Democrats. And one last thing. It's not a coincidence that this leak came on the morning of the president signing a bill to reopen the government, because CNN doesn't want to talk about that today. They want to talk about Epstein.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you so much, Mr. President. You're very kind with your time. And thank you for hosting us in this beautiful part of the world.

[Donald Trump]

Well, thank you. And your ratings are very good, and I want to congratulate you. I was very impressed. I saw them the other day and.

[Miranda Devine]

I said thank you.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not surprised.

[Miranda Devine]

Well, with stars like you and Susie Wiles, your chief of staff, and Monica Crowley and the rest of your cabinet, they're all superstars, really.

[Donald Trump]

Congratulations.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you very much.

[Miranda Devine]

Thank you again for listening to this special Christmas episode of Pod Force One. I'll see you back here next week for a brand new episode. Make sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss it. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.