Sebastian Gorka: If you plan on killing Americans, we will kill you first

Summary

Pod Force One – Episode Summary

Podcast: Pod Force One
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Guest: Dr. Sebastian Gorka, White House Counterterrorism Director
Episode Title/Date: Sebastian Gorka: If you plan on killing Americans, we will kill you first (May 13, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this revealing and provocative episode, Miranda Devine interviews Dr. Sebastian Gorka, the current White House Counterterrorism Director under President Trump’s second administration. The discussion covers the new counterterrorism strategy, a decisive break from prior approaches, focusing on genuine threats (Islamist terror, cartels, violent left-wing/domestic groups), resisting politicized weaponization, and practical plans to stop those advocating or planning violence against Americans. Gorka directly addresses recent assassination attempts, political violence, the normalization of threats against conservatives, the weaponization of federal agencies, and the new administration’s uncompromising doctrine: “If you plan on killing Americans, we will kill you first.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. New Counterterrorism Strategy: A 180 from the Past

• Unclassified & Accessible: Gorka encourages the public to download and read the new White House strategy, describing it as “common sense, reality based, threat based counterterrorism”—not bureaucratic jargon ([02:01]).
• Break from Previous Administrations: The policy distinguishes itself by refocusing counterterrorism on actual threats rather than targeting political opponents ([02:01], [03:24]).
• Targets Identified: Islamist groups, drug cartels, and violent secular/left-wing radicals (e.g., Antifa), including groups with “radically pro-transgender and anarchist” ideologies ([03:24]).

“...it actually is a 180 from the Biden administration's weaponization of the counterterrorism apparatus ... Instead, you are actually going after violence and people who would do America harm."
— Miranda Devine [00:18]

2. Addressing Political Weaponization of Law Enforcement

• Personal Experience: Gorka recounts the targeting of himself and his family by the January 6th Committee, underscoring his commitment to never use counterterror powers for political ends ([04:47]).
• Congressional Reforms Needed: Gorka stresses the necessity for statutory safeguards to prevent future administrations from politicizing intelligence/law enforcement ([08:48]).
  • Two-pronged solution: Legal/statutory barriers and radical transparency/declassification ([08:48]).

“This is a hill I will die on... I will not permit the counterterrorism tools of this country to be used for political purposes.”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka [04:47]

3. High-Profile Threats and Normalization of Violence

• Assassination Attempts & Political Atmosphere: Gorka and Devine discuss recent attempts against President Trump, the killing of Charlie Kirk, and other attacks as symptoms of a climate where political violence is normalized by Democratic leaders and echoed in media ([07:48], [20:57], [28:24]).
• Media and Political Rhetoric: Gorka attributes escalation to aggressive rhetoric (“call somebody a Nazi long enough...”) and leaders encouraging confrontation ([28:24], [31:59]).

“It’s a Democrat party that has normalized violence.”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka [28:24]

4. Iconic Trump Moments: Leadership Under Fire

• Resilience in Face of Danger: Discussion of President Trump’s reaction to assassination attempts: cracking jokes at the podium, refusing to show weakness, and projecting strength for America and the world ([20:58], [22:58]).

“He’s joking about serving the nation in a way that could result in him being killed because one side of the aisle disagrees with him. That’s incredible. And you only do that out of love... love of country.”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka [20:58]

• Deviating from Secret Service Protocol: Trump’s public display after the Butler attempt is interpreted as historic and intentionally reassuring not only to Americans but to the world ([23:32]).

5. Links Between Domestic Attacks & Foreign Influence

• Direct Foreign Plots: Clear cases of Iranian assassination attempts against American officials are cited ([28:24]).
• Domestic Radicalization: However, Gorka ascribes most recent domestic violence (e.g., Butler, Mangione) to an ideological environment fostered by Democratic leaders, not direct foreign orchestration ([28:24]).

“It’s the normalization of violence. You lie about somebody... sooner or later someone will believe you… It is the normalization [that]… I am permitted to use force against them. It’s the constant left wing canard—the ends justify the means.”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka [28:24]

6. Tackling Radical Funding and Foreign Networks

• Financial Tracing: Gorka describes aggressive plans to trace, expose, and disrupt funding from actors such as Neville Roy Singham or George Soros that allegedly support violent protests or leftist militias ([36:25]).
• Legal & Financial Tools: Sanctions and criminal prosecution if a financial link to crime or sabotage is established ([37:06]).

“If you kill Americans or are planning to kill Americans, we will find you and we will kill you first.”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka, quoting Trump’s strategy motto [37:06]

7. Border Security and Mass Migration

• Migrants & Crime: The episode claims millions have left—half by “self-deportation”—since policy changes created an environment less conducive to illegal residency ([41:44]).
• Optimism About Enforcement: Gorka is more optimistic than “legal eagles" who see statutory barriers to mass deportation ([41:44]).

8. Top Terrorist Threats Today

• Ranking Current Threats:
  1. Cartels—specifically, fentanyl deaths eclipsing combat fatalities ([43:20]).
  2. Jihadists—hundreds killed under the Trump administration ([43:20]).
  3. Left-wing radical domestic groups, which the Administration is now targeting ([43:20]).

“Right now, the number one threat in terms of harm to America is what the cartels have been doing. But we’re getting a grip on that... the third category, the left wing, anti American, unconstitutional radical leftists…”
— Dr. Sebastian Gorka [43:20]

9. China, Fentanyl, and Asymmetric Warfare

• China’s Involvement: Gorka calls the fentanyl crisis a form of “unrestricted warfare” against the U.S. by the Chinese Communist Party ([48:15]).
• Presidential Safety & Statecraft: Gorka dismisses concerns that Trump’s travel to China is dangerous, citing protocols and mutual interest in recognition ([50:58]).

10. CIA & Intelligence Community Criticism

• Failures & Politicization: Gorka is sharply critical of the CIA’s performance under Brennan and Obama, pointing to both operational stagnation and partisan manipulation ([52:33]).
• Need for Reform: Emphasizes shaking up agencies to respond to contemporary threats and ending political perversion ([52:33]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On politicization:

  “James Comey, threatening the life of the president is a felony. Whether you’re the director of the FBI... a lunatic member of Antifa, doesn’t matter. That is a crime.”
  — Dr. Sebastian Gorka [08:48]

• On left-wing rhetoric:

  “You call somebody a Nazi long enough... sooner or later someone will believe you.”
  — Dr. Sebastian Gorka, referencing Larry Elder [28:24]

• On counterterrorism doctrine:

  “If you kill Americans or are planning to kill Americans, we will find you and we will kill you first.”
  — Dr. Sebastian Gorka, quoting President Trump’s strategy [37:06]

• On Trump’s leadership:

  “He gets up and says, hang on a second, I need my shoes... he takes control. By doctrine, that principle loses physical control... instead, he takes command, has such foresight, such composure. He says, ‘I gotta send a message to the world that it’s okay…’”
  — Dr. Sebastian Gorka [23:32]

• On the ‘shining city on a hill’:

  “He is a fixer par excellence who believes we are the greatest nation on God's green earth and we need to resume that position as the shining city on the Hill.”
  — Dr. Sebastian Gorka [15:52]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:18] — Introduction to Gorka and the new counterterrorism strategy
• [02:01] — Gorka outlines shift from politically targeted counterterrorism
• [03:24] — Discussion of new targets: cartels, Islamist groups, violent secular left
• [04:47] — Gorka’s personal experience and the “hill I will die on”
• [07:48] — Challenges with future Democratic administrations and weaponization
• [08:48] — Congressional reforms and statutory buffers
• [12:11] — The James Comey case and prosecution for threats
• [15:52] — Hostility to Catholics and ideological roots
• [20:58] — Trump’s response to assassination attempts
• [23:32] — Iconic photo and deviation from Secret Service protocol
• [28:24] — Links between attacks, foreign actors, and normalization of violence
• [31:59] — Legal, media, and cultural influences on political violence
• [36:25] — Tracing foreign money and countering radical financing
• [37:06] — The “find, fix, finish” doctrine and recent counterterror operations
• [41:44] — Immigration enforcement and “self-deportation”
• [43:20] — Ranking terrorism threats: cartels, jihadis, left-wing radicals
• [48:15] — China’s fentanyl campaign as irregular warfare
• [50:58] — Safety of Trump in China
• [52:33] — Criticisms and reform of the intelligence community
• [54:49] — Obama and the weaponization of the DOJ
• [56:24] — Will Obama “see justice”? Gorka’s response

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Conclusion

This episode offers a forceful and unfiltered window into the Trump administration’s second-term counterterrorism priorities and worldview, as articulated by one of its most hardline voices, Dr. Sebastian Gorka. He defines a new and uncompromising doctrine against those who would do Americans harm, lambastes the politicization of security functions, and sets forth an ambitious vision for using – but not abusing – state power. Underpinning all is the simple message: America, under Trump, will respond decisively, transparently, and without regard to ideological or political affiliation—so long as justice and security demand it.

If you want to understand the radical shift in the federal government’s approach to security and internal threats, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

He says, I went to Walmart and I could smell the stench of the Trump voters. James Comey, threatening the life of the president is a felony. It's a Democrat party that has normalized violence.

[B]

Welcome to PodForce One. Dr. Sebastian Gorka, I'll introduce you. You are now the White House's counterterrorism director, King Zar, you name it. And you have just put out an extremely important document which is of course the strategy, the blueprint for counterterrorism going into the future. And I mean, remarkably wonderfully, it actually is a 180 from the Biden administration's weaponization of the counterterrorism apparatus that this country has against its political opponents. And instead, you are actually going after violence and people who would do America harm. So with no further ado, welcome to PodForce One.

[A]

Thank you, Miranda. And as somebody who had a national TV and radio show and a podcast, let me say the. I'm a little bit jealous. If I were in the media, Pod Force One is a rather good title.

[B]

Thank you. Well, I did not coin it. That honor belongs to my editor, Keith Poole. And we sort of revolved it around Air Force One because of course, Donald Trump was our first guest and we've had him on other times and hope to be talking to him again shortly. So I'm very pleased to have you here because I know you've been very closely working with the president on this counterterrorism strategy and I assume that it really has, you know, a lot of his fingerprints all over it as well as your own.

[A]

Well, I have worked with or for the president since before he was president. I got a phone call when I was a professor for the Marine Corps back in the summer of 2015, so 11 years ago to help prepare then candidate Trump for the national security GOP debates that fall. So yes, I've worked in the first Trump administration. I've been doing counterterrorism for 30 years now. Nigh on 30 years. And now I have the honor to run counterterrorism for the President, the most consequential president of the modern age. And it's unclassified. Anyone can go on the White House website or onto my X account, download it and please do read it. It's not the usual Washington acronym filled garbage of jargonese and policy wonkery. It's just common sense, reality based, threat based counterterrorism. And you know, we could talk for hours about how we are back in the business of counterterrorism. We're not using the inordinate peerless national security powers the United States has as a political weapon. And as Obama or Biden did, we're here to protect all Americans, whether or not they voted for my boss, the 47th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

[B]

Dr. Gorker, I want to just read some elements of this that I found interesting. Of course, you talk about, in addition to cartels and Islamist terror groups, counterterrorism is also going to prioritize identifying and neutralizing violent secular political groups whose ideology is anti American, radically pro, transgender and anarchist. That would be organizations, you call them international organizations like Antifa and use law enforcement tools to cripple them before they can do Americans harm. And that is music to the ears of any of us who have lived through the last several years of what really seemed to be the Democrats street militia going in during the first Trump administration. Remember the Summer of Love 2020, when after the George Floyd riots, they spread across the country and you had antifa types, left wing radicals deliberately going out of their way to destroy, burn down cities, create mayhem and hurt innocent Americans. We're seeing it now with the ICE protests, anti police protests, anti Trump protests. They pretend that it's constitutionally protected speech, but it's violence.

[A]

Yeah. So I mean, let's just remind ourselves, let's go into a little bit more detail with regards to the things you just mentioned. So whether you're a journalist, like the brave Andy Ngo, who is given a brain bleed by antifa protesters who smash his skull simply because he wants to report on the so called summer of Love, that's a journalist trying to do his job, or whether you're the then commander in Chief, the 45th President, who during that Summer of Love, as they were trying to burn down the church right opposite the White House where Abraham Lincoln prayed before his inauguration and riot to such an extent, and you don't have to believe me or have a top secret clearance, just look it up online. The first time ever a president was evacuated to the new nuclear bunker underneath the White House. Was President Trump during those riots? Why? Because the threat was imminent and it was real and it was a threat to the duly elected President of the United States. So we're just basing our threat assessment on reality. Whether you're trying to kill journalists, whether you are creating disorder against the rule of law in our country, or do I have to mention the name of my friend Charlie Kirk? Do I have to talk about the multiple left wing attempts to kill President Trump? We're not going to whistle past the graveyard. We're not going to say that doesn't exist. We are going to use every legal tool in our 17 intelligence agencies, in our domestic law enforcement through the DOJ, to prevent the violent left wing lunacy from taking another life. Whether it's a journalist, whether it's a president, or whether it's a brave patriot like Charlie Kirk simply engaging in civilized debate on a college campus. We will not allow people to use force against those they politically disagree with. I'm a kind of terrorism guy, but let me tell you that someone who was on the wrong side of the Biden security state when my phone records, not just my phone records, the phone records of my wife and my children were demanded by The Nancy Pelosi January 6th Committee with no predicate of any crime, especially for my family members. For me, this is a hill I will die on. I, in the name of this administration, in the name of a man who had his home raided by armed agents of the FBI, arrest. I, as director, as senior, as chief of counterterrorism, will not permit the counterterrorism tools of this country to be used for political purposes.

[B]

I want to ask you more about the assassination attempts on President Trump and the assassination of Charlie Kirk and what might link those crimes. But first, I do want to ask you, how do you prevent, when a Democratic government comes back in a Democrat president, how do you prevent them using the tools that you are now providing against their political enemies? Again? They're already, I mean, people like Susan Rice are promising that, you know, when inevitably one day they come back into power, they are going to mount a jihad worse than anything conservatives have ever seen before, worse than the Biden administration, if that's, you know, feasible. They are going to come after anyone in business, in politics, in journalism, in law, who went against them during the Trump administration. So how do you prevent that? And does Congress have a role?

[A]

Absolutely. So it's funny. I was literally discussing this issue today with the President's Intelligence Advisory Board. So there's this. There's two obvious tools. Number one is, of course, look, everything. The President has the biggest problem. And I'm not trying to be facetious or flip. The biggest problem we have in the Trump administration is keeping up with the commander in Chief. It's basically impossible. I and my colleagues, because we work in the National Security Council, we live what is called skiff life. So we work in classified compartmented, you know, office spaces, and you have to leave, you know, your cell phone outside of the skiff. And when we come out for, you know, a Little break. We look at our cell phones, check the news, and we say, oh, my dear Lord, what has he done now? Peace treaty number eight. I mean, it's just, you know, when I was in the first Trump administration, people used to say to me, you know, when he. When he's tweeting at 3am said, that's you, right? And I say, no, I need to sleep. I'm sleeping at 3am that's the president. He's a force of nature. So he moves so quickly on all planes, whether it's national security, economics, the border, Sharm el Sheikh, Abraham 2.0, and what is the majority of the ways in which he does that? It's executive order, it's executive action. Now, those last for as long as he or somebody who agrees with him is the commander in chief. So a lot of those actions can be reversed, as we did with the insane executive orders of the Biden administration. So to answer your question, yeah, Congress, absolutely, 100%, we have to put statutory buffers, protections in place so that counterterrorism tools, intelligence tools, the FBI, cannot be used for political purposes. That's the obvious one. And then secondarily, another member of the board said this today, and I do agree with him, that sunlight is the best disinfectant. We must. People like you, the great journalists out there, and the administration have to tell the truth about what happened under Crossfire Hurricane, what happened under Arctic Frost, what happened under Covid, what happened when the FBI was used to surveil Catholics. I'm a Catholic who went to Latin Mass in Richmond because that means they're domestic terrorists. We have to open wide, declassify the crimes, and let the American people know. And then secondarily, when a crime was committed, actually have those people held responsible in a court of law, in front of a judge and a jury of their peers. So, James Comey, threatening the life of the president is a felony. Whether you're the director of the FBI, the former director of the FBI, a lunatic member of Antifa, doesn't matter. That is a crime. And that's why you saw the recent decision by a grand jury to charge that individual for threatening the life of the President. So statutarily, we have to respond, and also we have to disinfect and tell the world what crimes were committed in the name of national security.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, with James Comey, people on the left and others are saying, well, you know, so what if he wrote 8647 in shells? That's his free speech. Right. But he was investigated for 10 months. And so I do believe that there is other evidence that would go to that grand jury finding that there's a case to answer.

[A]

No, absolutely. A group of American citizens behind closed doors were presented the facts of the case. Now, beyond this unbelievable post he made, he said he didn't know what he was posting. Then why were you posting it? I mean, the story just doesn't make sense. So that evidence was provided to the grand jury and in the 10 months we do not know, I am not privy to what other things were uncovered. Communications he may have had clearly indicate he was intending to threaten the life of the former president and now incumbent president. So Americans decided that there is a preponderance of possible criminal acts having been occurred. And now another group of Americans will decide in a court of law whether James Comey is equal before lady justice, whether the fact that he's a Democrat or had an important job, the law doesn't apply to him. We will soon find out. Miranda.

[C]

Hey, Bill O'Reilly here. Please check out my new interview series. We'll do it live. Each Thursday I sit down with the most influential people in America for a no spin chat, no script. Anything could happen. You can find We'll do it live on BillOriley.com, youTube or wherever you download your podcast.

[B]

It was under his successor, Christopher Wray, the FBI director who was appointed by Trump 1.0, that what you just mentioned about the FBI going after Catholics at Mass and also targeting pro life activists at their homes. Again, Mark Hook, who is a Catholic father of nine, I think had his home raided at 6am when he was willing to hand himself over. That sort of weaponization is also interesting that Senator Chuck Grassley recently unveiled some emails between two prosecutors, JP Cooney and Molly Gaston. Cooney being a deputy to Jack Smith, who was the special prosecutor who went after Donald Trump. In those emails, messages to and fro, they were talking in really bigoted terms about Catholics and about nuns and how they would like to prosecute nuns who wear habits, the old fashioned habits. They would like to just prosecute them for wearing habits. They really there was this hostility and hatred towards, I mean, nuns, probably the most innocent, sweet, harmless people on the planet, Catholic nuns. So there really was a streak in the so called Catholic Biden administration against really conservative Christians of any stripe, but particularly Catholics. Why would that be?

[A]

I'm a PhD in political science, not psychiatry or medicine. But why? Look, my first degree was in philosophy and theology. And I think much of the ills that pain us Today are a function of one belief, that there is no God, and man decides what is true. Therefore, there is no objective truth out there, let alone the concept that God is truth. So the embodiment of God is truth is a woman who has committed her life to serving that ultimate truth that is God. So I imagine it is not the splinter, it is the. The beam in the eye of the secular relativist to see a nun or a monk walk down the street in a habit, because what does that person represent? God. Because they are serving God with their life in a way that is visually discernible. So it's modern postmodern relativism and secularity, but we don't even have to go to religion. I'm happy to discuss that, although it's not really part of the counterterrorism remit. But just remember the senior FBI, the stroke and page, what are called the FBI lovebirds. And the text messages. And what does he text to his lover? I think both of them were married at the time. So that tells you one thing. He says, I went to Walmart and I could smell the stench of the Trump voters. I mean, you're a servant of the people. I work for the government. This is the third time I've done that. I worked in the Defense Department. I was in the first Trump administration and the second Trump administration. I take an oath to serve the people. The President serves the people. And you're a sworn officer of the FBI and you're texting. I mean, a. You're a cretin, right? You're putting stuff in writing. Say you think working class Americans who wear red hats, you know, stink. But then you're also demonstrating your utter, complete disdain for the people who you serve. Every agent, whether you're a special agent, a support SOS staff, an intelligence analyst. If you work for the Bureau, if you work for the CIA, if you work for the Department of Agriculture, you work for the people of the United States. That is the mandate that you have. And when you say they reek and they stink, there's such a deep disdain for the American people. And that's why you know better than anyone, you know the President. Think about this. How else do you explain that the billionaire reality TV star, construction mogul from New York is the working class heroes? I've seen it myself. I've been at rallies with the President in Youngstown, Ohio. The Rust Belt, the working class salt of the earth, Rust Belt of America. And the President comes out on stage. This was in 2017, with the first Lady Miranda. He couldn't start the speech in a Democrat stronghold because they came out on stage and the arena started chanting, usa. USA drained the swamp. And those weren't Manhattan socialites or people from the construction industry. They were steel workers whose granddaddies had been Democrats, whose parents had been Democrats. The only way you can explain any of this is one thing. It's love of country. My fellow conservatives and even the talking commentators, they really have a problem with applying any taxonomy to President Trump. They want to put a label on him, right? They can't put neocon that doesn't work, or neoliberal or paleocon or Reaganite because he's not ideological. Right. Ideologies are artifice that we impose on the world. There's one thing that drives the president, as I've watched and witnessed for the 11 years I've been associated with him, love of country. He loves this country so much, he's prepared to risk his life every time he gets up behind a podium and he wants to fix it and save it, that's it. He's a man who builds things out of nothing. He is a fixer and a fixer par excellence who believes we are the greatest nation on God's green earth and we need to resume that position as the shining city on the Hill. There is no ideological label except love of country. I mean, look, let's go back in time. What is it, a week and a half? I was with my family, two hours away from D.C. when I heard the news about the Hilton assassination attempt.

[B]

I was there.

[A]

Yes, I'm sure you were. I jumped in my car, I broke every land speed record, to rush back to the White House to go to the Situation Room. And as I'm nearing D.C. i plug in the President's press conference from the West Wing press room. And look, I know the man, but even for me, I cannot credit, I cannot internalize, I cannot wrap my cranium around the idea that within 90 minutes of another assassination attempt, he's cracking jokes about it. He's talking about, well, you know, race car drivers, pretty dangerous job, but being President, you know, 10% of us get shot at. I mean, he's joking about serving the nation in a way that could result in him being killed because one side of the aisle disagrees with him. That's incredible. And you only do that out of love. In this case, love of country.

[B]

It's interesting you say that, because I had a conversation recently with Glenn Beck, and he asked the President after the Butler assassination attempt during the campaign, what Went through your mind immediately when you were on the ground, you know, after the bullet had hit your ear. And Trump just said, I had to get up. I am the President of the United States. I can't let them see me down. You know, the first thing that went into his head, not, I'm Donald Trump, I'm scared for my skin. It's, I'm the President of the United States. I represent something bigger than a mere human and I have to be strong. And, and I'm sure that's what went through his mind both other times that he's almost been assassinated, including at the Hilton Hotel recently.

[A]

I mean, look, this is a little bit risky that we're venturing onto these waters because, you know, he doesn't like talking about Butler. Right. He just doesn't like talking about.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

Obviously, I know that for obvious reasons. But can we just for a moment just nerd out a little bit? I mean, it's strategically important, but it's also nerdy. Let's nerd out for a little bit. The most famous image of the last, I think from let's say from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the, since, since the fall of the Berlin Wall, there is no image more seminal historically than the one of President Trump, fist raised high, you know, chest open to the world, and then surrounded.

[B]

Bloodstreaming.

[A]

Surrounded. Yeah, bloodstreaming. And then surrounded, you know, two feet lower down by his Secret Service detail. Now can we. Everybody knows it. You know, they put it on mugs and T shirts. But just stop for a second and think about it from my point of view, as, you know, counterterrorism and national security, that photograph that is historic and has defined an age should physically have been impossible. Why go back and watch the videotape of the Hinckley assassination attempt against President Trump outside the same Hilton Hotel 40 years ago. Now, literally, you see him come out of the building, move towards the beast. As soon as the first shots ring out from that.22 revolver, this, you know, lifeguard, six foot three, lifeguard, Ronald Reagan, Hollywood actor, disappears. He literally disappears. Why? Because it is the job of the Secret Service to remove him physically from visibility. You double the principal over, you grab them by the belt at the back of their pants and you move them into the nearest vehicle. They, they threw Ronald Reagan so violently into the back of the beast, they cracked his rib. You don't see him. And then what else happens? One of the linebacker sized Secret Service agents does a star jump to take the incoming fire. We call them bullet catchers. That's what they're meant to do. And he did. He actually took rounds into his belly and as you know, the equivalent of a shield for the President. So transpose that to Butler. As soon as the first shots ring out, the Secret Service should have doubled over, the President, grabbed him by the back of the trousers and launched him into the beast and got him out of there. What does he do? First he gets up and says, hang on a second, I need my shoes. Right, because you know, you got to comport yourself. And then he takes control. By doctrine, that principle loses physical control of their body as soon as the risk has arisen. He says, no, I'm in charge of this security detail. Get your heads down. I'm gonna show my chest to the world to reassure not just my voters, not just the American people, but to reassure to make sure that China doesn't launch a nuclear attack, Russia doesn't think the President's dead, and to tell the world, I'm okay. Fight, fight, fight. I've known a lot of brave people in my life. My father survived persecution by the communists, was given a life sentence, tortured. He's my role model. But I tell you what, President Trump, my current boss, gives him a run for his money. I have served in uniform only as a reservist. I was a weekend warrior in the uk. I tell you what, Miranda, I bet you if I had been giving a speech, shots ring out and I raise my hand to my head and I see blood, I think I would have frozen in place like a lemming or I would have started screaming, oh my gosh, I've been shot. Instead, he takes command, has such, such foresight, such composure. He says, I gotta send a message to the world that it's okay, it's okay, or you shouldn't take advantage of us because I'm still kicking. And then he does it, you know, 10 days ago from the podium cracking jokes. It's truly remarkable.

[B]

You mentioned we talked about Butler a little bit. Now, is there anything that links these assassination attempts and the Charlie Kirk and the, the assassination of the CEO, Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York by Luigi Mangioni? This, you know, you can bulk these people into kind of the Luigi left. They all share the same kind of left wing ideology. I guess they all hate Donald Trump or capitalism, whatever it is. But is there some deeper link? You know, there was some talk that 20 year old Thomas Crooks, the Butler assassin or attempted assassin, couldn't have possibly done it alone. And he did have a social media footprint yet The Biden FBI under Christopher Wray told us that he didn't. So there seems to be a lot of mysteries around that. Can you tell us anything or do you have suspicions? Is there anything linking it to Iran or any other foreign actors?

[A]

Well, let's separate two things here. Number one, I have to stay in the unclassified domain. We know because a man was just sent to prison, what, two weeks ago for plotting against the President. We know, and we know that they've tried to kill others, not just the president, but Iranian dissidents, members of the Jewish community. Iran is trying to, to exact revenge for the strike on Qasem Soleimani when Trump was president the first time. So, yes, the regime that preaches America is the great Satan would like to execute assassination operations not just against the president, but members of his administration, former members like Pompeo, John Bolton. We know this. So there's that. Now, there is no connection that we know of to the incidences you've mentioned, such as Butler. So let's talk about those. Charlie, Kirk, Butler, Mangione, the Hilton and everything else. What's the explanation there? It's not a, as far as I'm concerned, it's not a maligned nation state actor. It's a Democrat party that has normalized violence. I mean, just go through the empirical data set. You have the former Attorney General of Obama saying, when they go low, you kick them, right? That's Eric Holder. You've got Nance Pelosi saying, I'm going to punch Donald Trump in the nose. You've got Joe Biden saying, I'm going to take him behind the shed and beat him up. You've got Maxine Waters saying you see a member of the Trump Cabinet in public, you surround them, you harass them. That's not some lunatic on Twitter. That's not Hasan Piker. That's not, you know, some kind of lefty podcaster like Chink Uyghur. It's members of Congress, it's the former speaker, it's the former Attorney general, it's the then President of the United States, Joe Biden. So what you have is a normalization of violence. And then, I'm sorry, you know, it goes to your profession. You have a mainstream media that for 10 years has called the president a fascist, a Nazi and a white supremacist. And to quote my former radio colleague from Salem, Larry Elder, if you call somebody a Nazi long enough, as many times as you can, sooner or later someone will believe you. And, you know, if I were A German in Germany in the 1930s. And somebody told me, you know what, that guy, he's bad. He's a Nazi. He's going to do genocide. I would think, oh, my gosh, well, isn't it my duty to take him out? Maybe this is the level of brainwashing where you normalize violence. You lie about somebody, you associate them with a person who killed 6 million Jews and initiated a war that killed 60 million people. What do you expect? It is the normalization of, oh, that person disagrees with me politically, therefore I am permitted to use force against them. It's the constant left wing canard. The ends justify the means. My end, oh, it's so righteous, therefore any tool is permissible.

[B]

That's right. And Cole Allen, the alleged assassin with the Hilton attempt, he. His sort of manifesto is just like a lame repetition of democratic talking points that you read in the New York Times or the Washington Post. But you have him appearing before a magistrate, and that magistrate then expresses concern in Washington, D.C. for the situation of his imprisonment, which is that he's been held in solitary in a suicide vest because they're concerned that he's expressed thoughts that he could be a suicide risk. That's standard protocol. And apart from the fact that January 6th prisoners were kept without trial for up to a year or more in just the most disgraceful circumstances, with judges and magistrates in Washington not caring. But I mean, it seems like there is a whole kind of democratic left wing ecosystem which is almost egging on violence to be committed. You talk about James Comey. I mean, he said, oh, it's just, you know, I didn't know what it meant, but he basically posted out a message that said, kill Trump. And he's the former FBI director. He's sanctioning these assassinations. Cole Allen, the rest of them thought they would be heroes. And in fact, Luigi Mangione is a hero to a certain subset of people.

[A]

People.

[B]

So how do you, as counterterrorism chief go after something that's really just the soup that Democrats swim in?

[A]

Yeah, look, I was in the White House the day after the inauguration in 2017. It was a Saturday, but I said, I have a deputy of the President. I'm going to go to work. That was the day of the Women's Pink Pussycat Hat March. The White House was surrounded, and you had one of the most famous pop singers in the world on the microphone from the podium say, I have dreamt a great deal about blowing up the White House. You have Johnny Depp saying, when was the Last time an actor killed a president. As if. That's funny, right? As if the assassination of Abraham Lincoln is funny because he doesn't agree with who the American people chose as their president. So how do we deal with it? Look, number one, we do everything in the bounds of the Constitution and upholding freedom of speech, which is a sacred, sacred right of all Americans. However, there are things within our laws that you are not allowed to say. Right. The freedom of speech does not extend to inciting violence or threatening the lives of specific individuals. That is not permissible. Beyond that, we will map. Look, we haven't talked much about it, but if you read the counterterrorism strategy, it's a very clear document. We don't shy away from telling the world what we're going to do. We are going to map out these individuals, we are going to identify them, we are going to find the. I mean, this is. God bless Scott Bessant, you know, Cash Patel, you know, ag, the acting ag, Torblage. Money. The money trail. The money trail is the most important thing. You look at these. From the river to the sea. Bring the Intifada to the streets of America. It's so interesting. You're on the campus of Berkeley or you're on the streets of New York and everybody has exactly the same placard printed the same font. That's a little bit strange. So, you know, I can't discuss ongoing operations, but the importance of malign foreign actors who leverage domestic fellow travelers. We lived this for 40 years during the Cold War. We will get to the bottom of all of it. Whether it's the Singham network, whether it's Iran, whether it's Russia, whether it's anybody else. Our mission is to uphold the Constitution and at the same time protect Americans from violence, whether it's jihadis, whether it's cartels or whether it's left wing radical individuals who think, if you're Charlie Kirk, I disagree with you and you deserve to die, we will not permit that to happen in America.

[B]

So for instance, you mentioned the Singham network. That's Neville Roy Singham, the billionaire who for some reason made his money here but has gone to live in China. And Fox Digital has done a terrific job of tracing his money to some of these violent anti ice protests and other sort of violent antifa type riots. So is that the sort of thing? What can you do though? If you do trace the money to an NGO attached to a person like Singham or like George Soros, what do you do next? Can you cut off that money, can you sanction that individual?

[A]

You could do all kinds of things if they are connected to crimes or the planning of crimes. So let me give an example that's very much in the counterterrorism lane. One of the things we've done historically should have happened decades ago is the President, one of my team members, drafted the executive order for him. The President has designated the Muslim Brotherhood or specific chapters of the Brotherhood as foreign terrorist organizations. And starting with the Egyptian one, the original, and we're going through all of them case by case, and what the most effective tools we have look in the last 25 years. And the President's opening letter or forward to the strategy ends on a very trenchant note. That is now the motto of my directorate. If you kill Americans or are planning to kill Americans, we will find you and we will kill you first. So we in 25 years have developed the most exquisite find, fix, finish enterprise the world has ever seen. The unclassified story from day eight of the administration is a fabulous one. We walked into the Oval Office with some intercepts and images of an ISIS leader hiding out in Somalia. We told the President in the National Security Advisor, myself and a team member leading guy from isis. Biden's been watching him for the last year and a half. And the President looked up and said, what do you mean we've been watching him kill it? He got out his Sharpie pen, authorized the operation. Less than 30 hours later, I'm in the sit room with the National Security Advisor, with my team member, and we watched this leading jihadi who'd killed Americans and was plotting more terrorist attacks. Well, let's just say he was permanently removed from the battlefield. Since then, we have killed 815 jihadis. That's outside of Epic Fury, that's outside of Midnight Hammer, just counterterrorism operations. So the fine fix finish model is peerless, but it's only one part of our toolbox. If we can make a connection between criminal acts, impending criminal acts, or other entities who are already designated, like Hamas or Antifa, and you've moved money to them, you've provided training, you've provide succor of any kind, the DOJ treasury has a panoply of tools they can use to sanction the organization, to sanction individuals, and to choke the lifeblood, which is the money they use to destabilize our Constitution, our republic. So, you know, that's why this is very different. The second Trump administration as a survivor of the first one, is very different. When you've got this kind of team of people who are trying to be like the president, but failing, but leaning forward in how dedicated they are to the Republic, whether it's Kash Patel, John Radcliffe, Tulsi Gabbard, whether it's Todd Blanche, whether it's all these, Tom Holmes, Stephen Miller, oh, my gosh. These are people who believe in one thing, results in the interests of protecting all Americans from threats, whether they be domestic or whether they be foreign. So we have a lot of tools and we are using the Miranda.

[B]

A big part of the counterterrorism strategy is really about mopping up the problems that Joe Biden's administration brought in. And chiefly among them, I guess, is the open border and the flood of, you know, tens of millions of illegal migrants, including unknown numbers of terrorists, cartel members, murderers, rapists. I don't think Donald Trump was exaggerating when he said, you know, they're not setting their best and that they've opened up their lunatic asylums and their jails and unleashed their worst on us. So I'm sort of disturbed by conversations I have had with legal eagles who say that it's really going to be impossible for Donald Trump to fulfill his promise to deport, at the very least, the worst of the worst. But the bulk of these illegal migrants that came in under Joe Biden simply because of the way the legal architecture is set up, you know, various statutes. Congress will need to make changes, rules and regulations. Are you as pessimistic about that as my legal sources?

[A]

I have concerns before we came back into the administration for a second time, but. But the figures have just undermined my concerns and also the individuals that are responsible. You know, what's incredible is almost half of the deport, half of the number that have left America, the millions who have been removed haven't been removed. Half of them have self deported. Now, that's fascinating, right? Our job is not to physically find everyone and then have Tom Homan, you know, escort them out of the country, or Stephen Miller put them on a flight to the Dominican Republic or Afghanistan. It is to create the environment where they know if you stay here, things are not going to go well for you in the long term. So if it were a function of us physically removing the 12, 50, 20 million, I'd be concerned. But they're doing it themselves because you don't want Tom Homan to find you one day. You don't want Stephen Miller to be, you know, looking for you, whether you came here, you know, from Somalia illegally or anywhere else. So, no, we have created A culture in which the worst of the worst are being physically removed and others are saying, you know what? Donald Trump's the new sheriff in town. I'm going to skedaddle out of here. So, no, I am far more optimistic than I was before we came back into the White House.

[B]

And what do you see as the number one terrorism threat in America today?

[A]

Yeah, that's a great question. So let me look. This is hard for me to admit, but I will. I'm an OG, you know, jihadi guy. I've spent 30 years, you know, training the military and intelligence community and writing about Al Qaeda and ISIS and related groups. But when I had my national TV show on Newsmax, I dedicated a whole program to the cartel question because I wanted to get to the bottom of it. Because this idea of designating cartels as terrorists seemed a little bit hard for me to get my head around. And I crunched the numbers, and I saw the President is absolutely right in every com. So I added up all combat fatalities Since World War II to the present day. So that's Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Gulf 1, Gulf 2. G. What? All of those. In a span of 70 years, that's 103,000Americans were killed in uniform in combat missions during the Biden administration. How many people died as a result of open borders and the cartels flooding our nation with fentanyl and other illicit drugs? I found the data, Miranda, on Biden's CDC website. I had to go down this rabbit hole. It took me like 40, 50 clicks, but I found the data. Year two of the Biden open border regime, we had 110,000Americans die from drug overdoses killed by the cartels. So again, something you just have to sink in. More Americans were killed in one year than killed in combat in 70 years. So right now, the number one threat in terms of harm to America is what the cartels have been doing. But we're getting a grip on that. We are also crushing it when it comes to jihadis. As I said, 815 killed already. Iran is the biggest state sponsor. The president is on the case. Peak. Pete Hegseth. Amazing, General Cain, amazing. But beyond that, the question we discussed for 20 minutes, left wing. The third category, the left wing, anti American, unconstitutional radical leftists who, whether it's anarchist ideology, anti fascist, radically transgender, believe they get to use force against Americans they disagree with. So I can't give you one answer. All I can tell you, the biggest one is in hand. The second one is in hand, and the third one, we are on the Case

[B]

I just want to push back a little bit on the cartels because I feel that drug overdoses, in some sense, that's a demand problem as much as a supply problem. You know, if people in America weren't ingesting so many drugs, there wouldn't be so many overdoses. And I think that is in part a symptom of sickness in a society and also the kind of normalization of illegal drugs or drugs that used to be illegal and in my view still should be like marijuana. I'm not sure that you can equate that to jihadi terrorism where a bomb could be let off at Yankee Stadium.

[A]

I would say you're correct in the 1980s, but I'm not talking about snorting cocaine in Manhattan or people overdosing accidentally on heroin. It's different. We're talking about fentanyl. I know somebody who works the fentanyl issues in prisons in Virginia. You don't come back from a fentanyl overdose. And when we have one nation, China, that is providing the precursors to those weapons of mass destruction which the President has rightly designated as such. This isn't recreational drugs causing accidental deaths. This isn't, you know, something to do with the empty souls in America. This is a targeted killing of Americans. When you are flooding millions of pills into America disguised as recreational drugs like ecstasy, but in fact each one is a lethal dose of fentanyl, that's not the regular drug problem. That's war by other means. And that's why I would say your Observation is sound 40 years ago, but not in the age of China, providing precursor drugs to cartels that are ending up actually killing 16 year old kids who go to a rave and think they're gonna get high, but in fact end up dead on their bedroom floor within minutes.

[B]

So it's like a reverse opium wars.

[A]

You stole the words out of my mouth. Look, you know, the nation of China has a very long memory. There are those who have written this and I think it is, you know, has some merit. This is the payback time. They see our shiny city on a hill as, you know, the newest version of the British Empire. And it is now payback time for the Opium Wars. Many have said that, and I think there is something to that.

[B]

Do you think that this is a strategy of President Xi, an offensive strategy to hurt America? Or do you think it's just he doesn't really have control of a lot of the criminal elements in China.

[A]

It is a one party state. The idea that you do stuff on this Scale as a private actor in China and the Party doesn't give you permission. It's complete, utter. No, it's fantasy. I mean, read the books they've written themselves. Again, this is declassified. If you want to understand what China has been doing for the last 40 years or beyond. Unrestricted warfare by two PLA colonels, written in 1999, you can go online, you can read it in translation. It is the plan to take down a country you cannot defeat militarily. You can't take on America. We have 13 nuclear aircraft carriers. We have all special Forces, and most countries have soldiers. So if you can't defeat us militarily, how can you? Irregular warfare, economic warfare, intelligence, drugs, AI, computers, cyber. So, absolutely, this isn't just about Xi Jinping viruses. Oh, my gosh, let's not even go there. This is about, how do you take down a Goliath? What is the slingshot? Some people say Fentanyl is the slingshot.

[B]

Do you have concerns, as I do, and others actually in the administration have expressed privately to me about President Trump going to China to visit President Xi. You know, he is the existential threat to China. He alone stands between them and world domination. So they have every reason in the world to take him out. Now, they may not do it there, obviously, but as someone said to me, they could just put something in the air that makes him sick 30 days later.

[A]

He came up to me at an event recently on Ellis island and said the same thing. And I said, absolutely not. I have no fear at all of them doing something.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Number one, everybody wants recognition from this man. This is the most powerful individual we have seen since the likes of Eisenhower. Right? This is a man everybody wants to be at the table with him to have the state dinner, to have the recognition. The idea that you do something that undermines your recognition goes against what they wish to have secondarily. Remember what the president said about another country trying to do that? He said, there is a letter in the drawer in the Resolute desk that is addressed to the vice president should something happen to him. So that is the language of power that nations like China, Iran and Russia understand. So, no, for both of those reasons, the president, in my estimation, is very safe.

[B]

Well, that's good news. And good to know that Vice President Vance has orders of what to do in the case of some terrible.

[A]

The president has said it on camera sitting behind the Resolute desk. The letter is there.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, fortunately, you know, China could do something so sneaky, as they did with COVID that you wouldn't be able to really tell if the president just got Lyme disease and fell ill in America.

[A]

We have protocols, trust me. Not ones I can discuss, but we have protocols.

[B]

All right, good. So I wanted to ask you about the. You talked about the CIA or really the intelligence services. You said we've not been well served by them. Can you elaborate on that?

[A]

Oh, absolutely. So that's a direct quote from the strategy. That is very clear. So there's two issues there. And I have worked very closely with the intelligence security. I was there 43 days into the administration, standing on the tarmac as Jafar was flown to America from Pakistan, the architect of the Abbot Gate massacre. So we have seen incredible people who facilitate things like that. But we have some who are just caught in old ways, aren't thinking about new threats, whether it's AI, whether it's drones. We have to shake them up into the 21st century. And secondarily, we can't have political perversion. We cannot have. Under John Brennan, the CIA was almost crippled. His creation of these mission centers, which could be run by analysts doing operations just because he flunked out of the farm and he wanted revenge on the actual case officers, created all kinds of problems. Secondarily, there was the injection of politics, you know, under the JCPO Iran deal conditions, the CIA was pretty well instructed. Do not undermine Obama's deal with the mullahs and make sure the analysis doesn't bring us to a point that says, yeah, they have nukes or are on the threshold of nukes. It was cooking the books. So whether it's cooking the books politically infecting the system, or simply not keeping up with the rate of threat evolution. That's why the taxpayers should demand excellence from the intelligence community, not just in pockets such as those I've worked with, but across the panoply of the the 17 agencies.

[B]

We have one last question. Just a free kick here. President Obama was speaking to Stephen Colbert recently, and he opined that he wished that the Trump administration would get back to the wonderful times when he was president, when they abided by such norms as not weaponizing the DOJ against your political opponents, which, I mean, you have to choke on your cereal. Tell us what you thought of that.

[A]

I don't think I can without using very short words, but I'm not protocol. This is the same man who discussed with Sally Yates and John Brennan in the Oval how to target an innocent man called General Mike Flynn, how to discussing with Joe Biden how to use tools against an individual they feared as the former director of the DIA and take him out before he could come in. As the National Security advisor, I'd laugh if it hadn't cost so many people so much. Peter Navarro, my colleague in the Trump administration, went to prison. I'll quote him from the rnc. I went to prison so you wouldn't have to. That's what Obama did. Obama is the center of it all. Listen to Dan Bongino now. He's been unleashed. He'd be back on media, Russia, collusion, Arctic Frost. All of it goes back to one man. That man is Barack Obama with his henchmen, John Brennan with his lackeys, such as Gina Haspel, the chief of station in London. We must see justice in a court of law because what they did is truly police state tactics in America and we will not allow that to happen.

[B]

So will we see President Obama see justice?

[A]

I don't work for the doj. I'm not the director of the FBI. But as you've seen recently with regards to Comey and others, with regards to the advisor to Anthony Fauci, good men and women are on the case. Let me leave it at that.

[B]

Terrific. And I think we're in good hands. And I know that the terror threat is high now and I trust that you will be doing everything you can to keep us all safe.

[A]

We shall. That's why we took the oath of office. Whether you voted for the president or not, we are here to protect you.

[B]

Terrific. Thank you so much. Sebastian Gorka.

[A]

Thank you, Miranda.

[B]

Thanks for joining Pod Force One. Let us know in the comments below who you think ought to be held accountable, maybe even go to jail for crimes committed against Trump administration officials. Part one and part two. And don't forget to join us next week for another hard hitting interview on Pod Force One.