Trump's Media Enforcer! Karoline Leavitt on Tackling the Press, the Truth, and Speaking for Trump

Summary

---

Pod Force One — Episode Summary

Podcast: Pod Force One
Host: Miranda Devine (New York Post)
Episode: "Trump's Media Enforcer! Karoline Leavitt on Tackling the Press, the Truth, and Speaking for Trump"
Guest: Karoline Leavitt, White House Press Secretary
Date: November 19, 2025

---

Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between Miranda Devine and Karoline Leavitt, the youngest White House Press Secretary in history. Leavitt discusses her experiences at the center of the Trump administration, navigating media scrutiny, handling crisis moments, and balancing her personal and professional life. The episode provides candid insights into both the inner workings of the Trump White House and Leavitt’s remarkable rise to political prominence.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Post-Government Shutdown Reflections

• The recent 43-day government shutdown was a source of exhaustion and relief for staff, with President Trump portrayed as steadfast and victorious in negotiations, especially on healthcare and government funding.
• Leavitt outlines administration priorities now that the shutdown has ended, including affordability, trade deals, and a new executive order on foster care.
  • "The President stayed unified in saying, we want to reopen the government and we're not going to be held hostage to negotiate such a serious issue as health care overnight." — Levitt [00:26]

2. The Filibuster and Legislative Strategy

• Ongoing debates around the filibuster’s elimination to enable more Republican policy action.
• Leavitt asserts Trump’s determination and confidence in achieving legislative goals:
  • "He wants to see [the filibuster] gone so that he can have the most productive three years of any president ever." — Levitt [03:19]
  • "Don't bet against President Trump." [04:20]

3. Personal Crisis: The Butler Assassination Attempt

• Leavitt recounts the “surreal” experience of returning to work immediately after childbirth following the assassination attempt on President Trump.
  • "The least I could do was get back on television and, you know, start speaking on his behalf and fighting to win the election that he was again risking his life to win." — Levitt [07:37]
• She details the trauma, faith, and resilience within the Trump team during this period.

4. Inside the Trump White House

• Describes Trump as an accessible, supportive, and optimistic boss who values direct communication with his staff:
  • "He just always shares stories about his life prior to being a politician and president...I look up to him so much in so many ways, and he's so encouraging to work for." — Levitt [11:10]
• Contrasts this culture with the previous administration, emphasizing openness and teamwork.

5. Chief of Staff Suzy Wiles’ Influence

• Praise for Wiles’ calm leadership and how her steady hand and drama-free approach has contributed to a smoother, more effective West Wing.
  • "I've never seen Suzy stress. I've never seen her panic. She is really the calm that keeps the ship rocking." — Levitt [14:46]

6. Media Relations: Combative yet Professional

• Leavitt discusses her approach to handling the press—extensive preparation, professionalism, and calling out misinformation while remaining pragmatic in working relationships:
  • "We call out the fake news when we see it. We're very outspoken about that. But we will also work with good journalists who want to write good stories." [17:10]

Notable Press Room Policy Change

• Restricting media access to “upper press” after repeated inappropriate behavior, including eavesdropping and surreptitious recordings.
  • "It just became an inappropriate worker environment. And so now they're welcome up here, but it's by appointment only." — Levitt [18:46]

7. Scandals and “Hoaxes”: The Epstein Allegations

• Immediate rebuttal of new Epstein-related stories as another partisan-driven hoax and detailed defense of the administration's transparency.

  • "If you look at how this Epstein story sort of evolved over the past week, it's classic Washington hoax." — Levitt [20:55]

• Reflection on public distrust of the media:

  • "If people believed the media, Donald Trump wouldn't have won...the public wanted a man of action." — Levitt [23:39]

8. Personal Life and Background

• Leavitt grew up in a working-class New Hampshire family, credits her parents and upbringing for her values and resilience.
• Discusses her athletics background (college softball), early political interests, and internship-to-staff pipeline in the Trump White House.
  • "I grew up in a business family with a father who's very blunt and tells it like it is. And I saw many similar qualities in the president." — Levitt [29:21]
• Ran for Congress at 21, winning the GOP primary and gaining national attention, which led to her current White House role.

9. Motherhood and Work-Life Balance

• Candor about balancing motherhood (with a 16-month-old son) and a high-pressure political career, prioritizing family time, and being grounded by parental responsibilities.
  • "I feel like I wouldn't be able to be good at this job if I was not a mother...it really grounds me in this job." — Levitt [40:01]

10. Atypical Personal Life

• Addresses her marriage to a man 32 years her senior, their strong relationship, and familial acceptance.
  • "He is just an amazing guy. He's very introverted, unlike me...He's my number one fan." — Levitt [37:50]

11. White House Culture for Working Families

• Highlights the several working parents on the team, supportive leadership, and a family-friendly environment.

12. Memorable Anecdotes

• On Trump’s penchant for gift-giving, including spraying fragrance on visitors—including the President of Syria.
  • "I've seen it with other foreign leaders. I've seen it with members of our cabinet myself. He sprays his cologne and a perfume. Yes." — Levitt [44:03]

13. Unusual Press Questions

• Playful exchange about a comet that may be an “alien spacecraft” and Leavitt’s promise to look into it.
  • "I have not checked in on it with NASA, to be honest with you...but it's a question worth asking." — Levitt [45:24]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Don't bet against President Trump." — Karoline Leavitt [04:20]
• "If people believed the media, Donald Trump wouldn't have won." — Leavitt [23:39]
• "I give great thanks to both the President and our Chief of staff for allowing [full access]." — Leavitt [14:25]
• "He is a master at dealing with the press. He's been doing it his whole life." — Leavitt [12:48]
• "Being a working mom is. It's very challenging...I go home and I have to cook dinner and change diapers...then you get up and do it all over again." — Leavitt [40:01]
• "I've never broken a bone. I don't know how, knock on wood. But I made it through. I survived the torture." — Leavitt, on her tough childhood [28:24]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Post-Shutdown Mood and Priorities: 00:26 – 01:29
• Filibuster and Legislative Tactics: 03:19 – 04:20
• The Butler Assassination Attempt (Personal Crisis): 06:38 – 08:18
• Trump as a Boss/White House Dynamics: 11:10 – 12:47
• Suzy Wiles’ Leadership: 14:46 – 15:54
• Media Strategy and Upper Press Policy: 16:45 – 18:46
• Epstein Allegations and Media Hoaxes: 20:37 – 23:24
• Managing Motherhood at the White House: 39:29 – 42:43
• Trump’s Gift-Giving and Cologne Anecdote: 44:03
• Comet as Alien Spacecraft, NASA: 44:51 – 45:57

---

Conclusion

This episode offers an intimate, fast-paced portrait of Karoline Leavitt—her meteoric rise, candor about the challenges of power and motherhood, and the Trump administration’s approach to media and governance. Listeners gain rare insight into the day-to-day pressures at the White House, as well as the personalities shaping its inner workings. Leavitt’s confidence, loyalty to Trump, and openness about her personal life make this a memorable and revealing conversation.

Transcript

[Miranda Devine]

Welcome to the PodForceOne podcast. I'm Miranda Devine and today we're at the White House with the President's press secretary, Carolyn Levitt. Carolyn Levitt, thank you so much for joining Pod Force One.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you for having me, Miranda. It's long overdue. I'm glad to be here.

[Miranda Devine]

We're so thrilled to be here. And of course, the shutdown's over now, so that must be a relief for Everybody here in D.C. it definitely is.

[Carolyn Levitt]

43 days that shutdown dragged on because of the Democrats and Republicans. And the president stayed unified in saying, we want to reopen the government and we're not going to be held hostage to negotiate such a serious issue as health care overnight. This is a serious discussion that needs to take place after the government reopens. That's obviously a common sense position and that's why ultimately President Trump won. So we had a late night Oval Office signing ceremony. He signed the bill of 10:30pm and now the government is back open. We're getting our staff back to work and we're going to get people paid very soon.

[Miranda Devine]

And what's the mood? Sort of euphoric or a bit exhausted.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Or I think a little bit of both. There's a level of elation in the West Wing and people are, of course, tired. And we're really looking forward now to getting back to business and to not having to talk about shutdown, but to talk about the things the president is doing. Affordability, continuing to work on the border. More trade deals are coming. He's signing a EO on foster care with the first lady this week, which is really exciting. So now we can focus on the day to day and all the president is accomplishing.

[Miranda Devine]

And the Democrats got nothing out of this longest shutdown in history, except they really did because I guess their plan was to blow up the economic figures. Your next ones will probably show a hit and just to cause mayhem. How do you stop that happening again?

[Carolyn Levitt]

We have to work hard to hopefully get a funding bill that will last longer next time when we renegotiate this, we'll once again in January. And I think the president is genuinely serious about negotiating and discussing the issue of health care, which is a very important topic of discussion with the Democrats. And if they want to be common sense people and try to fix the system they created, by the way, the president is fully on board to do that. And you heard him say that when he signed the bill to reopen the government. So we'll see if they take the president up on the out offer to work in a bipartisan fashion. Regardless, Republicans are going to definitely put forward really good proposals to bring down health care costs in this country. I know it's an issue the president, frankly, has been obsessing over. He is. His HHS team is working around the clock to negotiate good deals with Big Pharma. We've rolled out several with many more in the can to come, and those are going to be real savings in the pocketbooks of the American people. So the president's focused on results. He'll work with anyone to do it. And so hopefully we'll see that in the weeks and months ahead.

[Miranda Devine]

But knowing the Democrats from past history, they'll try to stage another shutdown before the midterms to cause maximum damage. It worked for them, really, this time, they feel, because they did well in those elections, those special elections. So, I mean, the filibuster is really the only solution to that. Is the president still determined to get that, the Senate Republicans to agree to that?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Absolutely right. He's in total agreement that we need to let go of the filibuster. It's not serving the purpose that it originally intended to serve anymore. It's really a moot point. And he wants to see it gone so that he can have the most productive three years of any president ever. He's already been so productive in his first term. He ushered through the largest middle class tax cut in just six months, which is amazing. There's so much more work to do. Election integrity, voter id, getting rid of universal mail in ballots. All of that can be done if Congress works together and gets rid of the filibuster. So the President is definitely talking a lot about that, both publicly and privately. I know he's expressed his opinion on that to leaders in the Senate who may agree or disagree. We'll have to see how it shakes out. But there's so much that can be accomplished and we must take advantage of having the most productive president in the Oval Office. You know, Republicans need to get off their butts and move, and that's what the president wants to see them do. And that's what the American people are expecting.

[Miranda Devine]

So what's your prediction? Do you think the filibuster will go well?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Look, I'm not a betting woman, I'm not a gambler, but I would say don't bet against President Trump. I mean, there's been many challenges he's faced where people think he couldn't get the votes on topics that he did in fact get the votes. Look at the one big beautiful bill, right? Everybody in Washington doubted his ability to get that done by the 4th of July, and he did it. And he's unequivocally the leader of the Republican Party. Voters understand that and voters want to see the Trump agenda, the America first agenda implemented. And the best way to do that is to get rid of this nonsense rule that really has no impact on the Senate anymore.

[Miranda Devine]

Big Pharma blames everyone but themselves for high prescription drug prices. The truth Pharmaceutical companies control drug prices and keep raising them even as Americans struggle to afford the medications they need. This year alone, they've raised prices on almost 700 drugs. Don't be fooled. Big Pharma looks out for themselves while you pay the price. Learn [e-mail] paid for by Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance, Inc.

[Apple Watch Advertiser]

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With the all new Sleep score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from good to excellent. Introducing the new Sleep Score on Apple Watch. IPhone 11 or later required.

[Miranda Devine]

Now you're the youngest press secretary for the White House in history and you're also a young mum with a beautiful 16 year old. 16 month old.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Sorry, please. Not yet.

[Miranda Devine]

Not yet, no. So 16 month old boy, Nico. Now I remember you were pregnant during the campaign.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

And you carried yourself beautifully, you know, but Nikki was born and you were supposed to get some time off, but it was three days before the Butler assassination attempt and so you were on television almost immediately afterwards. Tell us about that time. Must have been surreal for you.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It was so surreal. I'll never forget the moment. I had just brought my son home from the hospital. He was three days old on July 13th. He was born on July 10th. And my husband and I were sitting in our living room in our home in New Hampshire and I said, the President has a rally today. Let's about talk. Turn on the TV while this beautiful baby's just sleeping and hanging out. Newborn stage. There's a lot of sleep time and nap time and I turned on the television and it was moments later where I watched live the president almost lose his life and watched my colleagues and friends whom I was working with on the campaign who have been my friends for many years, running from the sound of gunfire and obviously that's very traumatic for anyone, but especially postpartum mom. You know, my emotions were running really high, and I immediately picked up the phone and started calling to make sure everything was okay. And I got in touch with my colleague Steven Chung, who assured me the President was at the hospital, he was okay.

[Miranda Devine]

Were you worried that he'd been killed?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I didn't know. Just like everyone else in the country, in the world. You saw him go down? I mean, of course I saw him put his fist in the air, which was just such a show of strength in who the President really is. But in that moment, I felt as though the president almost lost his life. The least I could do was get back on television and, you know, start speaking on his behalf and fighting to win the election that he was again risking his life to win. And so we had a TV studio built in our home, and I stayed home with my baby and hopped on TV in between nap time and feedings and just worked it out. And I look back and think, I don't know how I did it, but I did by the grace of God and a lot of support from a really good husband.

[Miranda Devine]

Yes, well, you did a brilliant job. And honestly, what a time to be part of that campaign. And the RNC was immediately afterwards, and there was the president sporting a bandage on his ear. Did it change him? I mean, you know him pretty well.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I do. I know him really well, and I think it probably did in many ways. You know, he certainly. I've seen him speak more about his faith since that day in Butler, because afterwards, so many people around the world told him that they watched a miracle take place, and it was a miracle, and there's no other way to describe it. He slightly turned his head in an unfamiliar direction that he usually doesn't at that time in a speech. And the bullet hardly struck his head. I mean, it just missed his head. And you think about that and the odds, it can only be described as a miracle. And I think he knows that. And I know millions of Americans around the country believe that, and that, you know, God saved President Trump in that moment. It was just amazing to think about.

[Miranda Devine]

And Thomas Crooks, the assassin, was killed. He was shot dead by the snipers. He was cremated. There are a lot of sort of questions about him. We don't know very much about him. And I know when I interviewed President Trump at the very beginning of this term in about February, he, at that moment said, I need to know more. I deserve to know more. He said to his Secret Service people there and then, and Then the FBI was supposed to, but there's still no information. At least that's public.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

Is there anything. I mean, is he satisfied with what he's found out so far?

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, I don't want to speak for him on that because it is such a personal thing, but I do know that he has inquired with the Secret Service and the FBI, and it was earlier in the administration where he asked them, you know, I want an updated briefing on what happened. Do we know any more than when I was briefed immediately following the days after Butler? Because the Secret Service and FBI did at that time under the Biden administration, of course, come and brief the president. So he's been briefed by his own people on the matter, and whether he's satisfied, that's only a question he can answer. I can't answer it for him.

[Miranda Devine]

But there are so many questions out there, and I mean, you know, did he act alone, et cetera? And it's, you know, it's over a year. It's 16 months now.

[Carolyn Levitt]

So, yeah, I mean, those questions are definitely deserving of answers, and I understand why the public wants those answers, and I believe the president does, too, so.

[Miranda Devine]

Why don't we have them?

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, it's. It's. It's a good question, and it's one I'd like to see the answer to, and I think all Americans would.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What is the president, President Trump? What is he like as a boss?

[Carolyn Levitt]

He is amazing to work for. He is so he's really just genuinely enjoyable to be around and as a boss, and you learn so much from him. He just always shares stories about his life prior to being a politician and president and when he was a businessman in New York and his days on the Apprentice. And it's just fascinating to remember sometimes that we work for, yes, President Trump, but also Donald Trump. Long before he was president, he lived this glamorous, incredible life. And so I really enjoy just learning from him as a boss. And I look up to him so much in so many ways, and he's so encouraging to work for. You know, that's something I've found as his spokeswoman. He is always giving me the answers that I need, and I always check in with him before briefings, and he doesn't hold back in telling me, you know, which direction he wants me to speak on whatever issue of the day is. And he's just open, and he's honest and he's fun, and he always is very encouraging to me before briefings and after briefings and, you know, he's a really good boss to work for and I hope more people understand that.

[Miranda Devine]

Does he give you critiques after your briefings?

[Carolyn Levitt]

He has on occasion, yeah, he has an occasion. But overwhelmingly, his feedback is always really positive. I have to say he's, he's an eternal optimist about all things in life. That's something I've learned from him as well. And I appreciate his feedback and I, I take his advice very seriously and implement it because I have to remember, he's been dealing with the press and spinning up the media long before he was ever president.

[Miranda Devine]

Right before you were born.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. He was on the COVID of magazines and he's been doing this, he's been on television for decades. And so he knows the game and he plays it well. He's a master at dealing with the press. He's been doing it his whole life. And so I like listening to him and sort of his ideas of which way we can go with a story or how to combat whatever fake narrative there is out there that day.

[Miranda Devine]

And so what would be a typical day? I think you spend a lot of time with the President so that you know what, what is going on. Unlike your predecessor, Karine Jean Pierre, who apparently never saw Joe Biden.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. And I don't know how you do this job without seeing your boss and spending time with your boss. It would be impossible to articulate his vision and what's going on in his head and his decision making process without being in the room. And that's something I'm incredibly grateful for at the Trump White House. And it's due to the President and also our great Chief of staff, who's just so encouraging and wants people to have a full understanding of what's going on in this building. There's no gatekeeping. We are all one team and everybody has a job to do and just executing. And for me, that job is sitting and listening and understanding the policy and the decision making process so I can go out there and sell it and articulate it. I mean, ultimately, I'm the saleswoman for this place and trying to get the American people to understand what's going on in here and why and why the President is doing what he's doing. And so the ability to have that access is crucial for the success in this role. And I'm just very grateful to have it. And I give great thanks to both the President and our Chief of staff for allowing that.

[Miranda Devine]

Suzy Wiles is often the Chief of staff mentioned as one of the big reasons why President Trump's second term has been so much more smooth and calm and successful, really, than the first, where I guess he was sabotaged left, left, right and center. But what is she like? What is the secret of her success?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I would say her ability to maintain her calmness under pressure. There are a lot of high pressure days around here. I mean, every day is a high pressure day in the West Wing. It's just a high pressure work environment. You're dealing with issues of life and death. You're dealing with issues of, you know, great economic impact. And there are stressful moments. And I've never seen Susie stress. I've never seen her panic. I've never seen her shed a tear. She is really the calm that keeps the ship rocking and keeps everybody on board and keeps everybody moving in the same direction from the president all the way down to everybody on our staff. And so I've really learned from her to just maintain that same level of calmness and understanding that this, too, shall pass. And the problem of the hour will be gone in an hour, and then another problem will arise that you have to solve. And that's just the nature of working at the White House, and especially for a president who is doing so much on so many fronts all of the time, you just do the best you can every day and then wake up and do it again the next day.

[Miranda Devine]

It seems like a very happy place.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It is, yeah. Genuinely. I mean, I love my job, and I thank God every morning when I walk through the front door of the West Wing for this blessing and opportunity. And we have an amazing team. Most of us worked together on the campaign, which is, you know, unusual. I think we all sort of came into this with a battle rhythm already of how to fight and message and win. And that's true of the communications department and my colleague Stephen Chung. It's true of the policy team under Stephen Miller. It's really been an amazing team with very little if not any drama, which is very unusual if you've ever watched the West Wing series. Usually there's more drama in this place, but there's really not, and it's because Susie just doesn't allow it. Everybody just has to do their job and be positive. And. And we're here to serve the president in our country, and it's a blessing to be here.

[Miranda Devine]

Now, the media, you. You rule that press briefing room with an iron fist.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I try. Thank you.

[Miranda Devine]

The fake news media, how, like, what is your relationship like with them behind the scenes? It's quite willing. Obviously, when you're up in front of the cameras, and it's sort of Mortal Kombat. But do you feel that you've pretty much under control, or.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, I mean, I do, because I prepare a lot for the briefings, and I walk in there with a good grip on what they're gonna ask, because I read and I watch and I prepare all day, all morning. I wake up at 5am and immediately start reading the news. And so if you read every paper front to back and you watch every network all day, you're gonna have a pretty good understanding of what the press wants to focus on. And then there are questions, of course, where sometimes I have to say, I don't know, I'll get back to you on that. And it's okay to be honest. And I make sure our team does, in fact, follow up and get them an answer. So the relationship behind the scenes, you know, the press briefing room can be combative, and sometimes it is behind the scenes as well. But I tell our team that we need to be professional and get them facts. And nobody does that better than President Trump. I mean, he is the best at sparring with the media. He dubbed the term fake news, and it's totally accurate. But he'll also pick up the calls of reporters and talk to them about his thinking. He also will sit down with Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic in the Oval Office and give him some time to understand his thinking. And so our team emulates that exact same approach where we. We call out the fake news when we see it. We're very outspoken about that. But we will also work with good journalists who want to write good stories and try to make those stories as accurate as possible.

[Miranda Devine]

And you've recently just banned the media from coming into what's called upper press, which I think is just the area around your offices. And why was that?

[Carolyn Levitt]

So upper press is the suite that you're in. This is my office, and there's several other offices and staff that sit up here. We are steps away from the Oval Office, as you know. And then downstairs, right near the press briefing room, there is what's called lower press. And I have 10 staff who sit down there, and they are the front lines of. Of the White House press corps. And the White House press corps have full access to that space to everyone on our press team to take their questions, answer their questions. And what was happening up here is now that we have taken over the responsibilities of the National Security Council thanks to the restructuring of Secretary Rubio when he became National Security Advisor, Steven Chong and I are responsible for all communications matters, including national security. And so we felt that became very inappropriate for reporters to be loitering around sensitive information in our offices. And we did unfortunately catch some unruly reporters recording us without our permission, listening in on conversations, eavesdropping. We'd have staff meetings in the morning. Some of the reporters started to pick up on that and we'd walk out and they would be out there trying to listen. You know, Secretary Rubio or the chief want to come in and brief us on something. You'd have reporters out there heckling them. And it just became an inappropriate worker environment. And so now they're welcome up here, but it's by appointment only. And so a lot of the outrage you're seeing on Twitter, they've told us privately they're okay with how this system works so long as they can still have appointments with me to understand the news of the day. And we grant them that access. I give them as much time as I possibly can on my schedule, although a lot of my time is with the President and in the Oval Office and sitting in on meetings. So I try to devote as much time as I can to the press because that is my job. Right. That's the, the basic duty is for me to work with the press and make sure they're telling the truth out there.

[Miranda Devine]

The latest big drama for them is the Epstein, the latest on the Epstein stuff. And you rebutted that immediately, saying it's another hoax. How is that playing out? And do you think that it's going to take a lot of your time going forward?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Well, we certainly hope not, because I think the President is wanting very much to focus on the issues that he was elected to solve, like affordability and rising prices and, you know, our border, we're continuing to do great work there, the trade deals again, everything that's going on overseas and that is what he's focused on. But if you look at how this Epstein story sort of evolved over the past week, it's classic Washington hoax. Yes, you have Democrats on the Oversight Committee leaking redacted information to their favorite reporter at CNN who then pops the story with that redacted information and does not reveal that the unredacted version is available. And the unredacted version proves that the so called victim in this email is a woman who is unfortunately deceased, but prior to her death said on numerous occasions that President Trump never did anything wrong and was always incredibly friendly in her interactions with him. And so it's a purposeful leak to try to manufacture this news cycle, to drag the president. And we've seen this play out so many times. It is a classic playbook of the Democrats using their friends in the fake news to spin up a narrative about the president. And so we just don't tolerate it. We don't give in. We just call it out for what it is, and we move on and we focus on the issues that we know the President was elected on. And I would just add one more thing on Epstein. I mean, the Department of Justice has turned over tens of thousands of pages to the House Oversight Committee and to the American people. I mean, they released everything that's legally releasable online or to the House Oversight Committee. They also tried to move grand juries to unseal documents in various states. And unfortunately, those judges declined, and they've been fully cooperating with the House Oversight Committee. So this idea that there's files that the DOJ is hiding or that this administration is not being transparent is just totally false. It's a fallacy. And I understand people have questions, and when you're on the outside, you're skeptical of government, and people should be, but there is literally nothing to hide. And President Trump has maintained that this this entire time. And so, again, this is a classic playbook being run by the Democrats. And one last thing. It's not a coincidence that this leak came on the morning of the president signing a bill to reopen the government, because CNN doesn't want to talk about that today. They want to talk about Epstein. That's exactly what they're doing. It's playing out how the Democrats wanted it to.

[Miranda Devine]

Do you think that with all the hoaxes, the Russia hoax, the very fine people hoax, and so on, that it's almost a case of the boy who cried wolf. The media has become the media that cries wolf and that people just don't believe them anymore?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Absolutely. I mean, if people believed the media, Donald Trump wouldn't have won. On November 5, 70 million Americans rejected the lies of the fake news and reelected him because they realized all of these hoaxes were hoaxes and they were lies that were spun up and just pushed in their faces for years. And the public wanted a man of action, someone who's going to do what he says he's going to do. And that's what they have in President Trump. I mean, love him or hate him, you cannot say. The man does not deliver on what he says he's going to do. He follows through, and that's what the American people wanted of him. And so you look at the polling of the distrust in the media and the decline in the public's trust in the media, and it's really appalling. I mean, I think less than a third of the country trust the news that they read. That was not the case. Decades ago. You would pick up the New York Times and read every word as if it was the gospel truth. And now people are much more skeptical. And so I think the press realized that. Actually, I think that November 5th was a huge wake up call for so many reporters in the mainstream media class. And if you notice, their interactions with the president and with myself are far different than they were in his first term. With my predecessors, I think they realized that, okay, maybe there's something to this guy. You know, if 70 million Americans elected him not once but twice, maybe we should have a little bit more respect and treat this administration with a little more decency.

[Oregon State Credit Union Advertiser]

Ordinary checking Just a place to park your money. Our checking a $300 head start. As a member of Oregon State Credit Union, you'll feel the benefits from day one. Open a new checking account, set up direct deposit, and we'll add 300 bucks to get you going. Oregon State Credit Union, Human to human banking. Insured by NCOA. Equal housing lender. $25 minimum balance required, subject to change terms and conditions.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Get Popeye's Scary good Freddy Fazbear box with garlic palm tenders and Cheesy bites with marinara sauce. Or try the deluxe box with the.

[Apple Watch Advertiser]

Cupcake cup and a 20 ounce drink.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And see Five Nights at Freddie only in theaters. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Limited time at participating US Restaurants.

[Miranda Devine]

Now let's talk about you and your childhood. And what made the wonderful Carolyn Levitt we see here at 28 is doing a job that people twice your age wouldn't do as well. So you grew up in New Hampshire? Tell us about your family.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I did, yeah. I grew up in New Hampshire in a quintessential New England town of 2,000 people. I have great parents. They're amazing. They're actually on their way to D.C. now to spend the weekend with myself and my husband and our baby. And they're small business owners, my parents. Neither of them went to college. They're middle class, working class people. And so I grew up with a dad who worked seven days a week, sometimes nine to seven, and a mother who stayed at home. He owns a trucking business in New Hampshire. And then when I was in middle school, they opened up an ice cream stand in our hometown. So I grew up scooping ice cream at our hometown ice cream stand. And I had a beautiful childhood, great family, many friends, and just a great community that I lived in.

[Miranda Devine]

And two older brothers.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Two older brothers, yep. Who definitely taught me how to be tough. I was beat up my whole life, and we played sports and we played outside, and it was all boys in the neighborhood. So I was always around boys growing up, and I think that definitely helped me be a little bit tough. And I played sports, too. I was an athlete growing up as well.

[Miranda Devine]

You got a scholarship to college for softball?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, I did, yeah. Played college softball for two years and then decided it was time to hang up the cleats and focus on academics. And I wanted to study abroad. And As a Division 2 athlete, that wasn't something I could. I couldn't do both. I had to choose. So ultimately, I chose. You know, I've played softball my whole life. Maybe it's time to do other things. So I took off and went to Rome for a semester. And that was an amazing experience. Yeah, I don't regret it, that's for sure.

[Miranda Devine]

And softball, why did you choose softball?

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, I just. I started really young, you know, like most kids do, playing little League, and I just fell in love with it over the years, and I was good at it. And I played in high school very competitively, and then was offered a college scholarship. I played other sports as well. I played field hockey and. And basketball growing up. But softball just became my game, and I played on summer travel leagues. My dad, God bless him, we drove all the way all around New England, all around the country, every summer, traveling to tournaments. And those are definitely some of the best memories of my life, for sure.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah. And your older brothers, you say it helped toughen you up, you mean. How do you mean?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Like that?

[Miranda Devine]

You weren't a crybaby.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Physically, mentally, they were athletes. So we were always playing in the yard, you know, playing basketball, shooting hoops, making, you know, snow castles in the snow. And they would push me down in the snow and we'd go sledding. We had a golf cart in our yard. Drive growing up. And we attached a rope to the golf cart with a sled on the end, and we would do. They would do wheelies in the grass when it was wet and put me on the sled and purposefully fly me off of the sled into the grass. So, yeah, they were rough and tough, but. But again, I had a good childhood, and I've never broken a bone. I don't know how, knock on wood. But I made it through. I survived the torture.

[Miranda Devine]

That's lovely. And now you went to college and you studied politics and journalism.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

And you were at college when President Trump was running for his first term.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

And I believe you wrote an op ed for your college newspaper about him. What did you say?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I did so 2016, I was a freshman in college and I wrote an op ed that said, why Donald Trump just keeps on winning. And that was when he was in the primary with 17 other candidates. And everybody was so fascinated about how he kept making it through. And of course, that really started in New Hampshire when he pulled off a victory in Iowa and New Hampshire, he was just doing so well and performing so well, and people were fascinated and couldn't understand it. And to me, it came so naturally because I have a. I grew up in a business family with a father who's very blunt and tells it like it is. And I saw many similar qualities in the president who was just out there speaking to middle class working people like the ones that I grew up with in my small town in New Hampshire. And I saw how much he was resonating with not just my family, but the families that I knew and grew up with and had so much respect for. And so I wrote that op ed and I got a lot of heat for it on campus, but it made me stronger in my conservative convictions. And in the 2016 primary in New Hampshire, my college, St. Anselm, which is very well known for being a political hub every four years for the primary, really opened up to the national news media. And since I was the conservative on campus, they gave me an assistant running job with Fox. And so I ran around campus and got coffee for the hosts on the Five and just had a blast and met Bret Baer. I took a picture with him that was like, I thought that was so cool at the time. And it was an amazing experience. And that's when I knew I caught the bug. And I said, I want to do this for the rest of my life. I want to work in politics or in media in some capacity.

[Miranda Devine]

And you were pretty much, I mean, there are not many conservatives in your generation on a liberal arts campus. So what is it about you that made you kind of impervious to that normal woke brainwashing that's afflicted so many of your peers?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I credit a lot of it to my upbringing and just the conservative values I was raised on, of faith, family, good old fashioned hard work, not complaining, just pulling yourself up from your bootstraps and getting the job done. And I Mean, that's what I saw my parents do, and that's what they taught me to do. And I think those values are by nature conservative values. Right. And so when I went to college and had very, you know, several liberal professors who were espousing, you know, clear distaste for President Trump at the time, it was very alarming to me that there were people in academia who were trying to push their views on their students. And I wrote about that as well in the college newspaper, probably much to the dismay of my professors in class at the time. They still gave me good grades.

[Miranda Devine]

That's good.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, I did write about how it's, you know, you have to realize you have students who grew up in households that are the forgotten men and women. And that's exactly who President Trump was speaking to and continues to speak to to this very day.

[Miranda Devine]

And you had a White House internship for a little while in President Trump's first term?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I did, yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

And what was it like coming back? I mean, you'd, you'd been here as a kid. Did you think that you would be back one day doing what you were doing?

[Carolyn Levitt]

No. I mean, you can't really imagine it. Right. I did apply for an internship in college, and then that led to a full time position during the first term in the White House in which I worked in the correspondence office, literally going through the president's mail. But then that led to a low level role in the first term press Office under Kayleigh McEnany. So I was able to watch firsthand how a press secretary operates day to day and what the job entailed. But then, of course, President Biden was installed as president, and I moved over to Capitol Hill and did various different things in the off years when President Trump was not here. Never thought it would lead to this, but it did. And, you know, God closed one door and he'd open another, and then here I am.

[Miranda Devine]

And you did the most amazing thing again, another first. You were the youngest person to run for Congress, I think, in New Hampshire, and you won the primary, amazingly. How old were you then?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I was 21 or almost 22 when I kicked off the campaign, which is crazy to think. 22 going on 23, I think.

[Miranda Devine]

And what gave you the boldness to do that?

[Carolyn Levitt]

You know, I look back and I really can't put my finger on what made, what possessed me to run for Congress. I was working for Congresswoman Stefanik, who's very well known for her support of young women leaders in Congress and actually had a super PAC at The time to endorse and encourage young women to run. And she was the first person in D.C. who raised her hand and said, I support Caroline. She worked for me and I know she can win. And we did. And the primary was not easy. We had really well funded opponents, and I put together just a good old fashioned grassroots campaign. We knocked on 70,000 doors in the primary all across New Hampshire. And I would go out door knocking every night and was working at the family business at the time, and we just scrapped it together and we won the primary, which was such an amazing experience. And then of course, we fell short in the general election, but I'm grateful for it now. And the president jokes, I'm so glad you lost that race because it led you to working for me again. And so shortly after the midterms is when I joined the president's super PAC and then his campaign, and then of course, what led me back here to the White House.

[Miranda Devine]

And he, of course, endorsed you in your race.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, he did.

[Miranda Devine]

So how did you get his attention?

[Carolyn Levitt]

I think that race, you know, I was on television a lot. It was a very nationalized campaign by nature of my youth and just the opponents that I was facing, and it was a toss up seat, so there were a lot of eyeballs to look at what was going to happen in New Hampshire and that. And so I, you know, I think he saw some of my television hits. And the day after I won the primary, he called me to congratulate me. And so then we just sort of kept in touch after that. And then when he launched his reelection campaign, the team called and asked if I would be the spokeswoman for the super pac. And I was gladly accepting of that job. And so then I went back on TV and advocated for his reelection all through the primary and through Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley and all the fun we had with our fellow Republicans.

[Miranda Devine]

And that was willing, wasn't it? It was a tough.

[Carolyn Levitt]

It was.

[Miranda Devine]

It wasn't a late hour.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Miserable. No, no, it wasn't. I mean, we, we had to fight.

[Miranda Devine]

And he was in court all the.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Time we were in court. I was very pregnant in the Manhattan courthouse with Judge Merchand's witch hunt and Alvin Bragg's witch hunt against the. Against the President, and witnessed that firsthand. And then, of course, we had to fight off not just Biden, but then switch gears and beat Kamala too, which was a fascinating transition of, okay, we gotta pivot. It was like we ran two campaigns in one.

[Miranda Devine]

What was that like? Was that a Bit disconcerting. I mean, I guess it was on the cards, but until it happens, you don't know.

[Carolyn Levitt]

We had such an easy message against Biden because he was just, just so incompetent. It was like this story wrote itself for us. Every day, every time he'd speak, we'd be at the campaign headquarters just loving it and watching because he's stumbling and mumbling. And it became pretty clear that he was not a durable candidate for the Democrat party. And so I think we expected there to be that switch to Kamala, but of course, you have to completely switch gears. I mean, the policies were the same and we made her own that, of course, but it's a different person. And the American public were trying to get to know that person. And she was doing her best to put her best foot forward. But Brett. So she had her own stumbles as well, of course, that were not helpful. And she was just as easy as a target. I mean, some of the things she would say in interviews too, were a field day for us. So the campaign was a lot of fun. I mean, it was epic. You look at McDonald's in the trash truck again, the witch hunts that we faced in court, in the legal battles, and just the president went through so much, and to just be able to witness that and proudly speak on his behalf was a fascinating experience. I will never forget it for sure.

[Miranda Devine]

And in the meantime, you've got married, had a baby.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

Tell us about your husband and how you met. And also the fact He's, I think, 32 years older than you, which is unusual, but. It is. But you're a very mature person, so probably. Could you not find boys your own age who are as mature?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Honestly, no, if you want to know the truth. But no. He is amazing. And we met during my congressional campaign. A friend of mine who owns a restaurant is also a mutual friend of my husband's. And he invited my husband to my event at his restaurant. And we met and we were acquainted as friends for quite some time, but then of course, we fell in love. And here we are today. We're married with a beautiful baby. And he is just an amazing guy. He's very introverted, unlike me.

[Miranda Devine]

Oh, really?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yes. He stays behind the scenes. He's not on social media. He's very private.

[Miranda Devine]

He's a self made man, which I respect, and.

[Carolyn Levitt]

He's a self made man? Yeah.

[Miranda Devine]

Like you. Really?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah. Successful real estate business back home and, you know, he's built his career and so he's in a place where he can Support me in mine. And so he's an incredibly hands on father. He and I, my son, are just the best of friends and he's home almost every day with our boy. And he's just an amazing guy and he is my number one fan. He watches every interview, every press briefing. He'll be watching this podcast and he's just, he's awesome. We have a lot of fun together, too.

[Miranda Devine]

And what did your parents think when you said, oh, I've got this guy who's like almost as the same age as my dad?

[Carolyn Levitt]

It's definitely a challenging conversation to have. But then, of course, once they got to know him and saw who he is as a man and his character and how much he adores me, I think it became quite easy for them. And now we're all friends. I mean, it's a typical family relationship. And my husband has such respect for my parents in the way that they raised me. And we all have a lot of fun together when they come to visit.

[Miranda Devine]

And you've done, you know, a lot of women are sort of of my generation or a little bit later, they waited, you know, they did their career and then they had their children. And of course, that's not ideal biologically, but you've done it the other way. And so was that deliberate? I mean, do you recommend that? What's the easiest? I mean, everyone has it all women working mothers have challenges. But your way seems to be certainly biologically the smartest.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Being a working mom is. It's very challenging. I mean, and I don't sugarcoat that. When other working moms talk about it, you know, there's several other working mothers here in the West Wing, and we sort of have a little club where we lean on each other for support and guidance and advice because it's not easy. And you have to be really good at prioritizing your time. And, you know, I have some red lines at night. I make it home for bedtime, and people can reach me by phone if they need, unless I absolutely have to be here. But most often I'm able to get home for bedtime, and that's my time with my baby. And then every weekend, we just soak it up as a family and really prioritize those moments together. So it's not easy as a working mom, but I feel like I wouldn't be able to be good at this job if I was not a mother. And I say that because I think being a wife and a mom is always my number one priority. And it really grounds me in this job. And, you know, there's a lot of criticism that comes with being the President's spokeswoman. And I could care less about it because I know I have a husband and a baby who just want to hang out with me and play toys and they, you know, he just wants to snuggle and have me be his mom. And so if I were to go home at night and not have that, I think I'd care way more about what people say or the press or I just don't because I don't have time for it. Right. Like, I go home and I have to cook dinner and change diapers and do tubby time and read books and put him in his pajamas and put.

[Miranda Devine]

Him to bed like so many other Americans.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Exactly. Like, you just. And then you get up and you do it all over again. So there's no time to, like, have any worries in the world when you are caring for another life. And I think that's a really humbling thing that, you know, as a mother, you just, you understand that.

[Miranda Devine]

And what advice have you been given that has been the most useful to you, particularly on the sort of juggling motherhood with work?

[Carolyn Levitt]

Yeah, I've been able to learn from so many amazing moms. Of course, my own mother in my life, she was not a working mom. She was a stay at home mom. But you know, my bosses here in Washington, D.C. my predecessors, Sarah Sanders and Kayleigh McEnany, both had young children when they were in this role. So. So it's been done before. I mean, I'm not the first to do this, and it's just a balancing act and just putting your best foot forward each day and making sure you carve out that time for family. And I'm very grateful to work in a White House where that is not just accepted, but encouraged. Our chief of staff is amazing. I think she talked about it with you.

[Miranda Devine]

Yeah, she was a working mom as well. She did it a different way, but she did it the same way I did early in their.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Right. And she was a working mom. And she knows she has many working moms and dads on our staff. I mean, a lot of the men in the West Wing have young children as well, in fact, like Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller and James Blair, and there's several of them. And actually at the Easter Egg Roll, we were in a staff photo line to take a picture with the President and First lady, and there were like three times as many children in that line as senior staff because so many of us have young kids and and so all the kids were running around and crying and I was trying to entertain them. We had books on the floor waiting to go see the President. So it's a family friendly environment in here. And my son comes into work pretty often and he'll hang out in the office. And I have a basket of toys in the cabinet for him.

[Miranda Devine]

Does he see the President?

[Carolyn Levitt]

He has, on many occasions, yes. The President's very kind. He's very good with children.

[Miranda Devine]

Yes, he is. You can tell that with his own grandchildren.

[Carolyn Levitt]

And he likes, he likes children. I think he's fascinated by them and he's very cute with them. He's always very, very nice to my son, although my son has no idea what's going on. But someday he'll see all these pictures.

[Miranda Devine]

And I wanted to ask, there was a funny moment the other day where the President went, the Syrian president came in and President Trump sprayed perfume all over him. And I just wondered, like, did he smell?

[Carolyn Levitt]

No, let me tell you, that happens all the time, not just with the Syrian president, but I've seen it with other foreign leaders. I've seen it with members of our cabinet myself. He sprays his cologne and a perfume. Yes. He's just showing off his wonderful sense. He's very generous. I mean, you've been in the Monaco closet merch room. He is a hospitable guy. And he's always giving gifts, gifts to people who visit him in the Oval.

[Miranda Devine]

He does love giving gifts. I hadn't seen the perfume before.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Very generous. Well, we'll get you a bottle.

[Miranda Devine]

That should be an easy thing to do. And then the other question I had for you was, which is a bit off base, but this comet that is, I think it's called 31 something, 31 atlas. And it's.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I've heard about this.

[Miranda Devine]

Now, most astronomers and scientists say that, oh, it's just a comet, but there are some, including a man called Avi Loeb from Harvard, who say it could be. It has a lot of unusual characteristics. It's an interstellar object from another solar system, could be an alien spacecraft. So I know it sounds ridiculous, but he's from Harvard. And I mean, there are some signs and obviously that could happen and is NASA.

[Carolyn Levitt]

So I have heard about this through the media.

[Miranda Devine]

Right.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I have not checked in on it with NASA, to be honest with you, although we have a new great guy who's going to head up NASA, Jared Isaac, man who knows space better than anyone. So how about I'll get you an answer and I'll get back to you on what we can expect from this comment and what the government's official position is. I honestly have no idea. But it's a question worth asking. I will because now I'm curious also.

[Miranda Devine]

To know if NASA has plans for, you know, if intelligent life does arrive on a spacecraft. Loved what we do.

[Carolyn Levitt]

What's our military operation gonna look like?

[Miranda Devine]

That's right.

[Carolyn Levitt]

I don't know.

[Miranda Devine]

Okay.

[Carolyn Levitt]

But I'll find out.

[Miranda Devine]

All right. Well, thank you so much.

[Carolyn Levitt]

Thank you, Miranda.

[Miranda Devine]

I love it. It's wonderful to talk to you.

[Carolyn Levitt]

You too. Thanks so much for having me.

[Miranda Devine]

Pleasure. Thank you so much for watching. I'm Miranda Devine. We'll be back with more soon. Let us know what you thought of this episode by leaving a comment below. And please make sure you hit the like and subscribe button so you don't miss any future episodes of Pod Force One.