← Pod Force One
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- [00:02]
Miranda Devine
Welcome Back to the PodForceOne podcast. I'm Miranda Devine. Today I'm at the Eisenhower Executive Office building in Washington, D.C. with the director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Director Gabbard, thank you so much for joining podforce One.
- [00:19]
Tulsi Gabbard
Thank you.
- [00:20]
Miranda Devine
Now, you're the Director of National Intelligence. Can you just explain what that means? What is that role?
- [00:26]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence was created in the wake of the failures around the horrific terrorist attack on September 11th. And really was. Was created out of a recognition of silos that exist within the intelligence community. One entity is not talking to the other. They're not sharing intelligence with each other. That, that unfortunately really led to the failures that drove the lack of any kind of really early warning that this attack was being plotted and planned for a significant period of time. This office really exists to be an oversight element over the 18 different intelligence elements that exist within the US government. It exists to serve as that integrator, to get all of the different intelligence coming from each of these different agencies and departments and put them together in a way that will provide, for example, the President with an objective, apolitical, unbiased intelligence assessment to best help inform his decisions, as well as Cabinet members, members of Congress, and other policymakers. So there are a few main functions, but really it is to serve as that oversight element and that integrator, to ensure that the best of our intelligence is best informing really critical national security decisions that are made almost every day.
- [01:51]
Miranda Devine
But that objective nature of it didn't work under Barack Obama. When you had James Clapper, who was your predecessor as dni.
- [02:02]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- [02:02]
Miranda Devine
You had John Brennan, the director of the CIA, James Comey, FBI, and a number of others who conspired together, as you have just said, under the direction of Barack Obama, then the president, to stage a coup against Donald Trump. And you have just declassified reams of documents. And I guess, you know, every day has brought a new bombshell. And I don't think that's overstating it just in. I want to go back to the beginning of the last couple of weeks, which I think was CIA Director John Ratcliffe. Cliff released his review of this sort of the document that launched the Russia hoax. But just as an overview, what in total, what have you discovered that we didn't know before?
- [02:56]
Tulsi Gabbard
What really started this, this string of declassification, declassifications and releases of documents coming from different agencies. The most recent one, as of this recording at least, coming from, from Senate Judiciary Chairman Grassley with The declassified Durham Annex. What really kicked this all off was a result of months of work by a team that I have selected within my office, with intelligence professionals coming from the CIA, the FBI, the dia, the nsa, from different elements within the intelligence community, really tasked with a very simple mission. Finding the truth about the Russia hoax. Finding the truth, in this case, about focused on election integrity and specifically around this whole Russia hoax narrative that really consumed much of the 2016 campaign and certainly pretty much all four years of President Trump's first administration. And for months, they sought to find and dig up documents, emails, previous intelligence assessments, checking source, the sources that were listed in those assessments that really led to the first big release that we had that uncovered the truth about how President Obama ordered this January 2017 intelligence community assessment to be produced. And he directed this order in early December, after President Trump had won the.
- [04:36]
Miranda Devine
Election, and in an oval office meeting December 9, 2016.
- [04:41]
Tulsi Gabbard
And the language that was used in providing those tasks to the intelligence community from then Obama's dni, James Clapper, is very significant because it doesn't ask the question, did Russia try to help Trump win this election? It was detail how Moscow tried to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump. So it presumes the conclusion and drives the conclusion that President Obama wanted to see. And that really kicked off what James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey and others fulfilled in this directive in pulling together pieces of intelligence that, based on the tradecraft standards that exist across the intelligence community, were considered substandard at best and were never used in a previous assessment because they were essentially trash. They were not credible. And then, of course, using the Steele dossier as one of the sources, as though it was credible, even though the FBI and those involved, John Brennan and James Clapper, also knew that this was a long discredited document. They knew it was politically motivated, manufactured pieces of paper that were not rooted in any kind of true intelligence or.
- [06:05]
Miranda Devine
Truth, and turned out really to be sort of bar gossip, wasn't it?
- [06:08]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- [06:09]
Miranda Devine
People that were making up stories about Donald Trump that were so fanciful.
- [06:13]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- [06:14]
Miranda Devine
But, you know, ultimately it was dangerous to do this. This is the way President Trump has described it. You know, he himself knew that this was a hoax, and yet he said that after you had declassified these documents, there's something different about seeing them. Is that the way you felt like, I guess you knew basically what had been done. But has it surprised you what you found?
- [06:41]
Tulsi Gabbard
It surprised me that all of these documents still existed, quite frankly.
- [06:45]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [06:46]
Tulsi Gabbard
Because unfortunately, it Wouldn't have surprised me to see gaps. And some of these gaps exist in other areas that we're looking at. We're trying to see how do we fill these gaps. But the fact that it lays down in a very clear timeline, documentation that came from the Obama White House, documentation that came from Obama's odni, documentation from the CIA, the fact that all of these pieces fit quite seamlessly together, creating a very clear timeline that shifted from before the election. The intelligence community almost uniformly saying essentially that Russia is trying to sow discord in the US Election, but has no preference for one candidate over another. And then all of a sudden, Trump wins the election, surprising many people both here and abroad. As, as we've learned in later documents that we've reviewed that, that throughout that campaign, Russia believed that Hillary Clinton would win the election. They felt it was inevitable. This is the key that. That really blows the whole Obama, Hillary, Brennan Clapper, Comey narrative out of the water. Where they say the. That Russia aspired to help Trump get elected or that Russia hacked the election in favor of Donald Trump, really trying to discredit President Trump's win. Yes. And. And give a big middle finger to the American people who had just voted him into office.
- [08:23]
Miranda Devine
Those stupid, naive fools.
- [08:26]
Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly, exactly. But, but what you just mentioned is, is, was really the key point here, which, again, the mainstream media won't pay attention to, which is Russia believed, or the. Russia actually claimed to have had very, very negative and derogatory information about Hillary Clinton that if they had chosen to release that in the weeks leading up to that November 2016 election, it would have very likely had a devastating effect on her campaign.
- [08:59]
Miranda Devine
Totally. I mean, that she was addicted to tranquilizers.
- [09:03]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- [09:03]
Miranda Devine
And then you now look at that footage of her at the 911 ceremony in New York being sort of staggering towards her van having to be pushed in there. And now you look at that with different eyes.
- [09:16]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- [09:16]
Miranda Devine
If that's correct, that she was on tranquilizers and there was a whole lot of other negative, you know, that she had a, you know, strange hysteria, sort of laughing and crying and what. What other sorts of things.
- [09:29]
Tulsi Gabbard
Essentially, the documents that Russia claimed they had portrayed Hillary Clinton as having mental health challenges that would result in fits of. Of laughter and fits of rage. It also pointed out some very specific physical health concerns that apparently leaders within the DNC were discussing amongst each other.
- [09:56]
Miranda Devine
That's right. This wasn't invented intelligence like the Steele dossier. This was supposedly these emails, email communication.
- [10:05]
Tulsi Gabbard
Among senior DNC Officials.
- [10:07]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [10:07]
Tulsi Gabbard
That Russia claimed to have in their possession. So the point here is that if Putin and Russia aspired to help Trump get elected, which is what the manufactured January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment says, with high confidence, according to Brennan and Clapper, then Putin would have released the most damaging information and emails to help President Trump leading up to that November 2016 election. The fact is, the opposite is true. It was intentionally withheld and not released because they assumed that Hillary Clinton would win that election. And their plan, according to these documents that were found in an investigation the House Intelligence Committee conducted into the CIA's creation of this January 2017 assessment, is that Russia had decided to wait until Hillary Clinton won the election and wait until maybe days or weeks before her inauguration to release these documents once again to sow destroy the presidency and discord in America and to undermine her presidency before she would even have the opportunity to take the oath of office.
- [11:21]
Miranda Devine
And how ironic that in fact that is what America did to itself in this Obama, Hillary conspiracy to undermine Donald Trump after the election.
- [11:34]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, the American people, I think, have been, and our republic has been most harmed by this. Of course, President Trump went through hell and his family because of this Russia hoax that was manufactured by President Obama and his administration. We saw the years long Mueller investigation, two impeachments from Congress, the Mar a Lago raid on his home by the FBI. You saw multiple members of his family as well as senior officials being investigated. But really, when we take a step back and look beyond that and we look at the harm that took place to the American people, their faith in the integrity of our Republic, this is where you use the word dangerous. This is where the weaponization of the intelligence community can have such a dangerous outcome that is really impossible actually to measure. When we look at a sitting President of the United States and President Obama unhappy with the outcome of the election and making the appearance of a peaceful transition of power, priding himself on it over and over and claiming to be the champion of democracy, and yet launching what we now know came from President Obama was a covert mission essentially to subvert the will of the American people, create this lie that would challenge the legitimacy of President Trump's election and the four years of his administration resulting and affecting in what was truly a years long. Cool. This is why it's so important. And I just keep repeating myself over and over again because you look at the evidence that we released, we have to look at it within the greater context of what happened in the months leading up to that election, November 2016, and what followed in the years after in order to understand or get a glimpse into the true implications of this.
- [13:41]
Miranda Devine
Why do you think Barack Obama did that? He'd served eight years. He was going out on a high. What was he so frightened of with Donald Trump that he needed to sabotage him?
- [13:53]
Tulsi Gabbard
I haven't seen any intelligence that reflects his inner thoughts or intentions with this. But again, I think you can take a step back and just recognize at face value, if Hillary Clinton had won that election, this would not have happened. It could only happen and could only really be motivated by the Obama administration and the president himself being unhappy with the fact that the American people chose President Trump over Hillary Clinton.
- [14:25]
Miranda Devine
A repudiation, really, of him and his eight years.
- [14:28]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right. That's right.
- [14:30]
Miranda Devine
And do you think that when we talked about it being dangerous, that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was partly due to this? In one sense, it's because Putin saw that Joe Biden was a weak president, I guess. But also we see with the Durham annex, which is the latest or one of the latest drops of declassified material that shows that it was really the Hillary Clinton campaign with members of the George Soros foundation who were deliberately ceding this information to force the White House to have a confrontation with Russia. And it really poisoned, I think, Donald Trump's. I think his intent before he came into office was to try and normalize relationship with Russia, which would have been a good thing for the world, for.
- [15:34]
Tulsi Gabbard
The cause of peace.
- [15:35]
Miranda Devine
Cause of peace, and allow America to, you know, utilize its efforts on combating China. But instead, we now have America in this proxy war with Russia. Do you think that the Russia collusion hoax was a factor in that?
- [15:53]
Tulsi Gabbard
Again, when you look at the actions and the timeline of what came next after this January 2017 Russia hoax, intelligence assessment was created. Let me actually step back a little bit after that. December 8 and December 9, the December 9 National Security Council meeting, very shortly, within days after that meeting occurred, was when President Obama made the announcement that there needed to be heightened sanctions against Russia for interfering in the US Election. There are many other examples. When you look again, at President Obama's rhetoric himself and those around him and the fires that they were stoking resulted undoubtedly in heightened tensions between the United States and Russia, again making it a very difficult environment for President Trump to make any progress on what he knew coming in was an important objective for the safety and security of the American people, which was to, again, work towards peace. It's the thing that he is continuing to pursue here now in his Second term in office as president, United States, and I think was a big reason why so many people across the country voted for him both in 2016 and now here in the 2024 election.
- [17:19]
Miranda Devine
Just talking about Hillary Clinton, I mean, some of these documents, the recently declassified Durham Annex from the Durham report from 2023 that shows some absolutely incredible emails, you know, I mentioned, between Hillary Clinton's campaign and various Soros people, just spelling out that this was an operation to dirty up Donald Trump and distract from Hillary Clinton's problems.
- [17:49]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's exactly right. What do you know, if you remember when we go back, and Hillary Clinton's emails were really making headlines in a lot of ways and for a lot of reasons.
- [18:00]
Miranda Devine
Her missing emails.
- [18:01]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yes, exactly. And so when people look at the newly declassified Durham appendix, you'll see a number of quite shocking statements in there coming from people like then DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz talking about how, and I'm paraphrasing here, but, you know, Hillary Clinton's emails were deleted just in time. Statements like that, references towards some of Hillary Clinton's most senior advisors saying, hey, let's use the Russia play against Trump in order to diminish the attention that's going to Hillary Clinton's emails. And it actually points to statements about how Hillary herself approved one of these plans that was put forward again before her to heighten tensions around this Russia hoax. This, this alleged Russia collusion with Donald Trump to draw attention away from her and away from the controversy that was surrounding her at that time. These documents also show that President Obama was briefed on this before the election and how at that point in time, he talked about how he didn't want his legacy to be tainted by Hillary Clinton and her controversy and claimed to want to stay out of it. Obviously, at a certain point, he made a different decision. But it really, again, starts to lay the groundwork for how we see at the highest levels of power in our country. Remember, Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. We see at the highest levels of power in our country how this narrative was very intentionally used and some intelligence pointing to the use of foreign agents or assets to assist in this narrative that, again, was, in essence executed to undermine President Trump's candidacy and to advance Hillary Clinton in. Into the presidency.
- [20:07]
Miranda Devine
And Hillary Clinton, you've had relations with that are not relations. I mean, when you ran for the presidency in 2020, she called you a Russian asset. Why did she not like you back then? You were a Democrat.
- [20:30]
Tulsi Gabbard
There are a few reasons. Yes, there are a Few reasons. Number one, you know, Hillary Clinton, as I said then, is the queen of warmongers. Right. So from a fundamental foreign policy view, what she was advocating for the American foreign policy to be versus what I was advocating for could not have been more different and diametrically opposed.
- [20:58]
Miranda Devine
Libya, for instance, when she was chortling about the brutal death of Gaddafi, which.
- [21:04]
Tulsi Gabbard
Which is just. Every time I see that. That video of her in that interview, really, as you said, we came, we saw and he died. Exactly. He died and then she laughing about it. Yeah. It's. To. To think about someone like her assuming the role of the President and Commander in Chief and sitting in the Oval Office is actually quite terrifying when we look at the. Yes. The safety and security of the American people. And I just think about the courageous men and women I've had the privilege of serving alongside in the military and whose lives are the ones who are put on the line when you have people like her and those who share her views in positions of power to make decisions about war and peace and life and death. So, you know, substantively, my views are diametrically opposed to hers on foreign policy and many other issues. But also back. It was because of that, that as then I was a vice chair of the Democratic national committee back in 2016, and, you know, I had started to see from the inside so much of what was wrong within the national Democratic Party, but made a decision at that time where the scales were being tilted heavily for Hillary Clinton by then DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz. But also seeing how the mainstream media was complicit in this, because even as they touted Hillary Clinton as, and you remember the most qualified candidate ever to run for president in our nation's history, to. That's a high bar. Yes, that's a very high bar. And yet when you look at her actual record, they would list off all of these titles, these fancy titles that she's carried, but none of them actually looked at her record of what her policies were as a US Senator, what her votes were, what her actions were around foreign policy that would qualify her to be the most qualified person ever to be Commander in Chief. They never got into any kind of detail or below the surface on her record as Secretary of State, either. The kinds of things. Libya is one example, there are many others that you could point to of where her decisions, her advice, her engagements, ultimately, when it comes right down to it, made our country less safe. And so I resigned as Vice Chair of the DNC at the time and endorsed Bernie Sanders specifically Because they had very, very different views on foreign policy. And it would give me the opportunity and the platform to have a megaphone in order to expose her record because the mainstream media refused to do it. So I have a feeling that in 2020, Hillary Clinton choosing to lob these baseless and slanderous accusations against me.
- [24:17]
Miranda Devine
It's her thing. Russian.
- [24:19]
Tulsi Gabbard
It's her thing. And she may have remembered me telling the truth about who she really is and her true record for the years leading up to that point.
- [24:29]
Miranda Devine
You hurt her feelings and then she got her revenge. Fast forward to you find yourself on the Quiet Skies surveillance program. And I in fact, accidentally met a whistleblower who told you about that. And she had found out that an ally of Hillary Clinton from way back, from her water, whatever Whitewater days had decided, had seen you on television, on Fox News, on Laura Ingraham's show, talking about Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris and decided to put you on the list and make your life a kind of a misery. I think you were stopped or delayed 24 times and given extreme searches as if you were a domestic terrorist.
- [25:25]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Yes, she found a way to exact her revenge, as I believe that was Hillary directing. I hadn't heard that account before. I was certain, however, that it was politically motivated. There was no other explanation for it, other, other than that when I spoke to TSA agents in multiple airports who were just doing their jobs, but who, as they went through this extreme and in depth search of me and oh, by the way, my husband was also placed on this domestic terror watch list, they were like, why are we doing this with you? You are still serving as a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. army Reserve. You're a former member of Congress. This makes zero sense whatsoever. And hearing that from the folks who are out there on the line every single day further affirmed what I believe to be true, that this could only be real if it were politically motivated to not only go through these extreme, sometimes 30 minute long, 40 minute long searches before boarding any flight.
- [26:38]
Miranda Devine
Would they go through your luggage?
- [26:40]
Tulsi Gabbard
Every single piece, the lining of my luggage after everything was removed, feeling down my. Every jacket that I had in my, Feeling down the seams of every single inch of my clothing. Again, these guys were doing what they were told to do. I wouldn't want them to be fired for, you know, not doing their job. But when you look at the consequences again of this politicization of intelligence, this is another example. And who does it hurt? Well, these folks, these TSA personnel, the air marshals who were told they had to surveil me and follow me and look at how many times did I pick up my phone while I'm in flight? Did I talk to any other people? Did I have any interesting conversations? Was there any movement that I made that seemed a little out of the ordinary? How many times do you get up and go and use the bathroom? I mean, the surveillance during.
- [27:40]
Miranda Devine
Did you know they were following you?
- [27:42]
Tulsi Gabbard
I had kind of noticed a couple of times.
- [27:45]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [27:45]
Tulsi Gabbard
But I didn't know until later the extent of how many air marshals they required to watch me and who had to type up reports to get up.
- [27:55]
Miranda Devine
On a plane with you and travel.
- [27:57]
Tulsi Gabbard
With you from drop off to move through the airport to get on the plane to landing at my destination and out to the curb. The real chilling effect here, and obviously I may be one of the better known people who's been on this list, but unfortunately there are many Americans who have been targeted either for political reasons or for no reason at all, experiencing what is essentially illegal and unconstitutional surveillance.
- [28:30]
Miranda Devine
It must. By the government, very violating.
- [28:33]
Tulsi Gabbard
It is. Yeah, it is. And this is, this is the, the, I think the real implication here is people will see me on TV criticizing Hillary Clinton's foreign policies, criticizing Kamala Harris's foreign policies, talking about how dangerous either one of them would be as, as president and commander in chief, and then very publicly seeing how the government and the intelligence is being weaponized against me. It can have a very chilling effect on people to say, oh my gosh, like this is happening to somebody who's in the military and who served as a member of Congress, who ran for president and she's speaking out and speaking the truth and standing up against these very powerful people. What would happen to, you know, everyday American who maybe goes to a board of education meeting and stands up for the right of their daughter to go to school and compete in sports without being afraid for her safety and her well being. Because others are saying, well, no boys who say that they're girls can go in your bathroom and can run against you on, on the track field. What happens to that mom or to that dad who stands up and, and speaks the truth and and then is labeled a domestic violent extremist by the Biden administration. So you can see again the chilling effect that this would have in and the menacing effect that it has really on sending a message, you better comply or else. You better remain silent or else. Because look at what we did to Tulsi Gabbard. Just imagine what we can do to you and, and you won't have a platform to speak up about it and expose them for doing exactly what they're doing.
- [30:23]
Miranda Devine
How ironic that you now are the head of the intelligence community. You are the dni. They never would have imagined that that would be the outcome.
- [30:35]
Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know that I did either.
- [30:38]
Mike Baker
Hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast. If you want straight talk on national security, foreign policy and the biggest global stories going on of the day, this is the show for you. We publish twice a day, Monday through Friday, once in the morning, again in the afternoon, and on the weekend we go longer with the PDB Situation Report with excellent guests including national security insiders and foreign policy experts. Check us out on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also on our YouTube channel at PresidentsDaily.
- [31:08]
Miranda Devine
Brief Power Politics and the people behind the headlines. I'm Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist and the host of the brand new podcast Pod Force One. Every week I'll sit down for candid conversations with Washington's most powerful disruptors, lawmakers, newsmakers, and even the President of the United States. These are the leaders shaping the future of America and the world. Listen to Pod Force One with me, Miranda Devine, every week on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You don't want to miss an episode. You served for eight years as a Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii. That was your ideology, I guess. So what happened? And before I ask you about your evolution, do you think that being a Democrat and coming from that kind of machine, it's much more of a machine, much more formidable, I think, than the Republican sort of chaos? Do you think that's given you an ability to do what maybe Republicans couldn't do? I'm just seeing how effective you've been as DNI in such a short period in being able to construct a narrative and stick to it and understand where the bodies are buried and create, you know, and figure out, not be naive, figure out what they were up to? Do you think that your Democrat backgrounds helped you?
- [32:51]
Tulsi Gabbard
I will say certainly my experience over all of these years that I've been involved in public service in the political realm has informed me very well in the work that I'm doing now. I think it would be too simplistic to say that just being a Democrat in Congress would lead to this because I wasn't a typical Democratic Congress either.
- [33:22]
Miranda Devine
But you were the deputy head of.
- [33:24]
Tulsi Gabbard
The dnc, you know, and I'll start there because to me you mentioned, you know, the ideology. I was certainly Affiliated with the Democratic Party. I was a Democrat. I joined the Democratic Party back in my early 20s because I had to pick one. And what I saw and was attracted to was really the values that, that I saw, you know, Dr. Martin Luther King promoting the values that President John F. Kennedy talked about and, and the kind of leadership that he brought. I saw a party that fought for the struggling working man and woman in America, those who were just trying to take care of their families and put food on the table and provide a better future for their kids. I saw a party that cared about clean air and clean water for us to breathe and for us to live in and around. And that's what drew me to the Democratic Party, you know, over 20 years ago. And you start to fast forward to see how the Democratic Party changed. And you go from, from then and you look fast forward to where we are now, where you have people talking about, you know, this guy Mamdani in New York as the future of the Democratic Party and he's a self proclaimed socialist. You look at aoc, same thing. And, and you, you know, if only the Democratic Party of today had the intellectual honesty to really question themselves about what party would President John F. Kennedy most align with in today's world? Well, that we live in.
- [35:04]
Miranda Devine
Look at RFK Jr. That's right. And you.
- [35:06]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- [35:07]
Miranda Devine
Two of, you know, the brightest talents that have come out of the Democrat Party in terms of leadership and you.
- [35:13]
Tulsi Gabbard
And have been rejected and were rejected by the Democratic Party. And really seeing, again, the Democratic Party used to be the party that really championed free speech, that even if there was fierce. Exactly. Even if there was fierce disagreement, recognizing that you have the right to free speech just as much as I do, and seeing the value in the robust debate that is the public town square of America. This is America. This is what we were founded upon. And so you mentioned, I think the word you used was chaos in the Republican Party. But if we as Americans look at the founding of our country and we look at the Constitution and our Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, these documents that are the fabric and foundation that make us who we are. And then you look at the two political parties that we have today and in the Democratic Party, and yes, I have experienced this in great depth, how the overarching message is comply or else. Here's the narrative, here's the talking points. Stick to the talking points or else you will face retaliation, you will face some kind of public punishment or smearing or whatever the tool or mechanism is, and therefore directly limiting any kind of free speech or real, true dissent, like actual dissent on the issues that matter. Any real, true, robust debate. And then you look at the Republican Party and people can criticize this person or that person or this debate or argument or whatever. And yeah, it is. It can be really messy sometimes. But when you look at our democratic republic and a country that was founded on the principle of freedom, true freedom and free speech, well, guess what? This is what you get. And in President Trump's administration, here, as he talked about, both now Secretary of Health and Human Services, Bobby Kennedy. I'm here. There are others who are now a part of the team, who were former Democrats or who maybe voted for Barack Obama in a previous election, all coming together because in President Trump, we're seeing this unique, an incredible coalition of Americans who are seeing beyond party lines and are attracted to common sense leadership, who are attracted to, in President Trump, somebody who is actually standing up for working men and women in this country. President Trump, who led the passage of, you know, the one big, beautiful bill that says, no, if you're a waiter working in a restaurant and you're struggling to make ends meet, the government shouldn't be taxing you on your tips. No tax on Social Security income. So very real, practical decisions that our president makes. And I'm grateful to be in the room when some of these decisions are being made and some of these conversations are being had where he really just looks at, okay, what makes sense, what's in the best interest of the American people, what's in the best interest of strengthening our ability to live in a truly peaceful, prosperous, and free nation. It is so refreshing. And you look at his victory in 2020 for an unprecedented, historic win, and I was grateful to have both been at rallies with him. But really, Bobby Kennedy and I went around the country together and had conversations with huge crowds of people and seeing the ideological diversity, the political diversity of folks in those crowds who were attracted by people who were having real conversations about things that matter to themselves, to their children, to their families. And, and, and what was your.
- [39:11]
Miranda Devine
When you first started doing that with Bobby Kennedy? What. What was your relationship with him? Did you ever, to each other, marvel at how two Democrats are in his. He's from this storied Democrat family that, you know, I don't think any family is more iconic in that party than the Kennedy family. And he had his, you know, his own relatives attack him for it.
- [39:33]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- [39:34]
Miranda Devine
Did you share? Sort of.
- [39:36]
Tulsi Gabbard
We, we didn't really. We didn't spend too much, actually. We didn't really spend any time kind of marveling at the moment. I think both of us have been or. Or were very. We were very mission focused.
- [39:48]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [39:48]
Tulsi Gabbard
Both of us came to our own decisions to endorse President Trump in the 2024 election.
- [39:55]
Miranda Devine
Did you. Was that in part and sort of hostility to Biden or.
- [40:02]
Tulsi Gabbard
We had very clear reasons. I mean, there were obviously a lot of criticisms of President Biden and his administration. I wrote a whole book about it, about why I left the Democratic Party Party and was urging others to do the same. But I think for both Bobby and myself, there were very positive reasons and motivations for why we decided to endorse President Trump and to actually spend time, months on the road going out and sharing with other people, our own personal experiences and why we felt so strongly to leave our families and our homes behind and spend that time on the road because we knew he was the best president for our nation at this moment. And look, it's been six months and the president is delivering on his promises.
- [40:58]
Miranda Devine
And could you see yourself going back to the Democratic Party? I mean, a country with only one healthy party is not going to do very well.
- [41:07]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- [41:07]
Miranda Devine
So could you see yourself or a group of people trying to restore the Democratic Party, trying to resuscitate it? Is that possible?
- [41:16]
Tulsi Gabbard
The Democratic Party has become more and more unrecognizable to me now. Certainly when I left the Democratic Party, I tried for a long time to. To bring about change within the Democratic Party, to bring it back to the party of jfk. And time and time again, what I faced was quite extreme resistance from within the Democratic Party. I remember as I was running for President in 2020, at one of the. I think it was one of the debates that we had, I talked about bringing the Democratic Party, wanting to revive kind of a new Democratic Party that would bring it back to our roots of fighting for the people, of. Of fighting for free speech. And I was ridiculed. I was ridiculed at that, at that Democratic event for having the audacity to say such things. And then that was, you know, five years ago. Now you look at where we are today, the Democratic Party has rapidly become far more. And why extreme?
- [42:24]
Miranda Devine
Why what happened? What went wrong?
- [42:26]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, it's. You can point to a lot of different moments, but really, fundamentally, the Democratic Party is not rooted in any true. Is not rooted in the Constitution. And you have people in positions of. Of power within the Democratic Democratic Party. And if you look at their ideology and, you know, their refusal, for example, to accept that There is such a thing as objective truth. And I. This is an often used.
- [43:02]
Miranda Devine
A man and a woman.
- [43:03]
Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. It's. It's an often used example because it's such an obvious one that we have people in the Democratic Party, almost everyone who accepts this or promotes it and propagates that there is no such thing as a man or a woman. And then you take that a layer deeper of how is it that these people really don't believe that there is such a thing as objective truth and many of the other positions that they espouse. And fundamentally, it's a spiritual problem where they are putting themselves in the position of believing that they are God and therefore they are the ones that. Who designate what is true and what is not, what is right and what is wrong. And that's, you know, the most dangerous thing when we look at this whole debate around, you know, what is a woman, what is a man? The denial of objective truth. Once you deny objective truth, you remove all boundaries in society and it puts themselves in a position again where the thing they care most about is power. And so once you remove all the boundaries, then you can start to see and understand this rapid movement to a level of extreme that I would not have foreseen.
- [44:32]
Miranda Devine
It's frightening. What about just quickly on borders? What is the mentality behind throwing open the borders the way they did, so destructive?
- [44:41]
Tulsi Gabbard
I believe it comes from political motivations. They saw a long game opportunity to shift the political dynamics in America. There are different members of Congress and others who have actually been pretty explicit in saying, hey, yeah, bring them all in my district. You know, it would be very helpful when it comes to, you know, time of the census and they're looking at redrawing borders of congressional districts. Let's just again play the long game. Let's fill these districts with voters that they believe or people that they believe will be future Democrat voters, at least.
- [45:19]
Miranda Devine
For a generation.
- [45:22]
Tulsi Gabbard
As President Trump has shown in his last election. But again, it goes back to what are the implications of open borders? They didn't care and don't care about the safety of our country. They don't care about how they let in tens of millions of people without knowing who they are, where are they coming from, what are their motives in coming here? There are known and suspected terrorists, I can tell you, who came in with that flood of open borders that President Obama and the Democratic Party welcomed into our country. It's some of the work that we're doing now at my National Counterterrorism center to identify as much as possible who came into this country? What are their connections to, to different terrorist organizations?
- [46:10]
Miranda Devine
How many do you think did come in?
- [46:12]
Tulsi Gabbard
It's, it's hard to say right now. It's hard to say because when you look at the process that the Biden administration put in place, they made it. First of all, when you go and I've been down to the border, I was there, you know, last year, long before I got involved with the election, unlike the campaign. Yes, but, but one of the first things that struck me as I was going in different, visiting different parts of the border was piles and piles of destroyed passports, ID cards, travel cards, actual pieces of paper that are clearly government identity identification documents, absolutely destroyed. And so why would this be other than you have people coming in across our border illegally, not most of them, not trying to run away, actually going to pre designated locations where they would go and sit and wait for the border agents to come and pick them up in their vans. Sorry, I don't have any identification. Here's my name, here's where I come from. I am seeking asylum. And according to the Biden administration's policies, oftentimes most of these people were on a tax payment funded plane or train going to a destination of their choosing.
- [47:31]
Miranda Devine
With a taxpayer funded four star hotel.
- [47:35]
Tulsi Gabbard
Right. And a cell phone in some cases. So to answer your question, when we look at the damage that was done, we still don't know the extent of it. There are thousands that we have identified. We work very closely with the Department of Homeland Security work. Thousands, thousands of terrorists, known or suspected terrorists or those connected to them, and working with dhs, working with cbp, working with ice, working with the FBI to identify them, to find them, to see where they are and to get them out of this country or to get them processed through our justice system.
- [48:14]
Miranda Devine
And how many others would there be that you haven't been able to identify?
- [48:17]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, when you look at the volume, you know, you look at, you know, some numbers point to 20 million people who came into our country illegally over the last four years. The fact that this is a question mark, once again, when people use false names, they give a false address and a false phone number and then they don't show up at the court date that they were supposed to show up for. It makes for tough work. And we are doing the tough work to try to track down and find out, number one, as President Trump is targeting those who are known criminals and prioritizing, deporting them, but actually just figuring out who is in our country who poses a risk or a threat to the safety of the American people or to our national security so that we can keep the American people safe. It's a very serious issue.
- [49:12]
Miranda Devine
Now, you were 20 years old when 911 happened. What sort of an impact did that have on a young girl from Hawaii?
- [49:20]
Tulsi Gabbard
Like for so many Americans, it changed. It changed everything. It, you know, just using words like it was an eye opening experience. It doesn't at all capture the level of emotion the, that I felt, which ultimately led to the resolve that I felt that coming from paradise in Hawaii. And it truly is knowing that in some way, shape or form, I personally needed to take action to serve my country and to go after those Islamist terrorists who launched that horrific attack on our country on 9 11. And that's ultimately what drove me to enlist in the military. And.
- [50:12]
Miranda Devine
And you spent a year deployed to Iraq.
- [50:14]
Tulsi Gabbard
I was in Iraq. I was serving as a state representative at the time in Hawaii when my National Guard unit, I was assigned to a medical unit. My National Guard unit was called up for what would be an 18 month long deployment. I was not, my name was not on the mandatory deployment roster and I was campaigning for reelection at the time. I called my commander almost immediately and said, I don't see my name here. He's like, yeah, I know, you know, lucky you, you don't have to go. And I talked to him and had multiple conversations. I just said, there's no way that I can stay behind and, you know, work in the state capitol and watch my brothers and sisters deploy into war on the other side of the world.
- [51:04]
Miranda Devine
And Iraq was at its wor. I mean, it was, I think, the most violent time.
- [51:08]
Tulsi Gabbard
It was the height. It was the height of. It was the height of the war. In. We got there in very early 2005. Again, I was assigned to a medical unit. And throughout that year, where we were located, most of us were located, was in what they called the, the Sunni Triangle at that point in time. That was kind of the heart of some of the worst combat that was happening in the country at that time. And it's an experience I'll never forget for many reasons, but working and serving in a medical unit there, where one of my daily tasks was to go through a list of every American casualty in the country and to go through name by name to see, you know, we had roughly 3,000 soldiers from Hawaii and across the Pacific that were a part of our unit to see if any of our folks were on that, on that list every day and if they were there to make sure that they were getting the care that they needed in country or they were getting evacuated if needed.
- [52:19]
Miranda Devine
And were they there every day?
- [52:23]
Tulsi Gabbard
More often than not. We lost a lot of folks and we had a lot of people who, who were seriously injured because IEDs were.
- [52:35]
Miranda Devine
Everywhere at that stage. Yeah, yeah.
- [52:37]
Tulsi Gabbard
One of my friends, his name was Frank Tiai, he was from American Samoa, place where I was born. And he, he was preparing to go home for his two weeks of R and R leave. And just days before he was supposed to get on a plane and go see his wife and children, he was hit by an IED and killed. And I was overcome with grief. We weren't close friends, you know, he was somebody in the gym talk to and crack jokes with her in the, in the chow hall and, and a lot, a lot of, you know, we were a close knit group, but the level of grief and really being confronted with that harsh reality of the cost of war, of who pays the price, and thinking about his wife and kids and all that they had planned to spend time with him and to have fun with him when he was home was it. It's something that stays with me every single day, everywhere I go. And it's a constant motivation in honoring Frank and so many others. Memories, their service, their sacrifice, sacrifices of their families, motivates the work that we do every day to make sure that the process president has the best, most objective, relevant intelligence so that he can make the best informed decisions, knowing firsthand the implications of, of what can happen. And I'll point back to the war in Iraq as another glaring, historic example of what the implications are when you have intelligence weaponized and in that case, and manufactured in that case to start a regime change war that I served in and that so many of my friends served in, and too many of my friends and too many Americans lost their lives in. James Clapper was on the team that created that manufactured intelligence assessment that led to the Iraq war about the Iraq WMDs. He writes about it in his book saying that he and his team of intelligence analysts created something that was not there. When you look at his actions then, and you look at his actions in 2016, as the, as Obama's Director of National Intelligence, you see someone who has no problem whatsoever politicizing and manufacturing and weaponizing intelligence for a political outcome.
- [55:45]
Miranda Devine
And I mean that generation of intelligence leaders, whether it be Clapper or Mike Morell, who wrote, who instigated the Dirty51 letter saying that Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation, John Brennan, all of Them are, are of the same ilk. They were all there at the beginning of the Iraq lie. And here they are, the Russia collusion lie, the Hunter Biden laptop lie. Can we, I mean, what will happen to them? Because I can't imagine, you know, they got away with it with Iraq, if they get away with it with Russia. The Russia hoax, you know, what's ever going to stop it?
- [56:29]
Tulsi Gabbard
Accountability. And does that has to take place is that jail. We've referred all of the documents we have found, we will continue to refer them to the Department of Justice for a criminal referral. Attorney General Pam Bondi has created a strike force team in order to look at which is serious. Strike force team. It is, it is a serious thing that really draws into focus one team of, of her attorneys that's focused singularly on this issue, which is critical accountability to those who have, have, are culpable for this, are responsible for this. But also it's, you know, they are the most well known individuals, but when you talk about how do we change this, we have to recognize that both of them, John Brennan and James Clapper as leaders in the intelligence community, they have their own disciples, they have a lot of their own people that they brought in with them or that they, you know, mentored in a, in a mirroring of their own image. And many of those people still exist within the intelligence community now. So these documents that we're finding, we are uncovering names of people who were involved with this Russia hoax, this manufactured intelligence document, and people finding exists that we don't know, whose names would otherwise never be known publicly. And fundamentally we are working towards making change, institutional changes. And this is a major area of focus for me. Institutional change that will undo the infrastructure that people like John Brennan and James Clapper built that allowed these bad actors to thrive and to be promoted into very, very powerful positions within the intelligence community. While others, like the whistleblowers that I issued a release about today with his accounts and his documents saying that he.
- [58:43]
Miranda Devine
Was forced, he was, he was told.
- [58:46]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah, basically, if you don't agree with this assessment, that he said, I don't agree with it because it's not credible. And he was told by one of James Clappers, right, that, that, that Putin was aspiring to help Trump in the election. He said, well, the intelligence doesn't show that, so I don't agree. And he was told by his superior, who was one of James Clapper's people, basically, that, that if you want to get promoted, you have to agree, you have to agree to this and you know, kudos to him. He's a courageous, a courageous and great American who took his job seriously as every intelligence professional should, and he refused. He, he attempted to blow the whistle many times with many different entities. The intelligence community Inspector General, really. He was blown off for years. Wow. He went on to call his state Attorney General. He called his state U.S. senator Warner who served on the intelligence community. He, he wouldn't, he couldn't even get an email address to be able to send the documentation materials too. He tried to reach out to the, the Special Counsel Durham's office because he was told, hey, the only way you can do this is if you call the DOJ yourself. He tried that. Was blown off. Didn't get any serious. I didn't have a single serious conversation about anything that he uncovered. So, you know, the persistence of this guy to not only do the right thing at the right time in that moment, but for years to continue to try to expose the truth. These are the kinds of professionals we need in the intelligence community. And those who spent a whole lot of time trying to cover it up are those who need to be held accountable and have no place within an intelligence community whose sole focus must be. Our work is rooted in the Constitution and our mission is to keep the American people safe and deliver unbiased, non politicized truth. Relevant, timely intelligence truth. Yeah. To the decision makers in this country. Intelligence community professionals are not policymakers. They don't get to decide what the decisions will be or what the outcomes will be. But in a John Brennan politicized intellig community, he created an environment where you have intelligence analysts who believe that they are the policymakers and will shape their intelligence assessments in order to drive a policymaker to draw the conclusion that they want.
- [61:19]
Miranda Devine
And it was the same with the FBI and James Comey.
- [61:23]
Tulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- [61:24]
Miranda Devine
And, and whistleblowers, again, I mean you, you've, you had this one whistleblower, but there are others that have come forward, aren't they?
- [61:31]
Tulsi Gabbard
And yes.
- [61:32]
Miranda Devine
And it's the same with the FBI, the whistleblowers and the IRS and so.
- [61:36]
Tulsi Gabbard
On, which I'm, I'm very heartened by.
- [61:39]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [61:39]
Tulsi Gabbard
That, that as we are releasing the truth to the American people, that we have folks within these different organizations who have been silenced or who've experienced retaliation, who are finding some hope now and starting to come forward and bring their experience to help us in our mission of finding the truth and sharing the truth.
- [62:05]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And of all the 18 intelligence agencies that you have to look after who's been the easiest and who's been the hardest, the worst?
- [62:17]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, you know, I mean, the CIA is a huge organization, and I'm not. I'm not casting negative aspersions on everybody who works there. There are some great Americans who I've. And I'm continuing to work with. But. But the CIA, again, when you look at John Brennan's CIA, there's a lot of work that needs. That needs to be done there. A lot of work under James Comey's FBI that needs to be done there. When you look at the NSA as a powerful, powerful intelligence agency, so. So when you look at, like, just by measure, these are the three big ones, and there's a lot of opportunity and necessity for change and reform so that they are fulfilling their core mission, our core mission within the intelligence community. When you look at the 18, a lot of the other elements are. Are significantly smaller. Yeah. You know, there's an intelligence element within the State Department and within the Department of Treasury, within, obviously, the Coast Guard and other elements within the military space agency. Exactly.
- [63:26]
Miranda Devine
And I just wanted to talk a little bit about your childhood and what sort of formed you. You said you were born in American Samoa and then moved to Hawaii as a young child. You're a great surfer. And your father.
- [63:39]
Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know about grape, but I love surfer surfing.
- [63:42]
Miranda Devine
Well, anyone who can surf is great as far as I'm concerned, because I can't stand on a board, but, yeah. So your father was a politician and he was a very socially conservative. So how did all of that mixture create the Tulsi Gabbard we see today?
- [63:59]
Tulsi Gabbard
We don't have enough time to go into the whole story, but my father and I ran for office actually the same year.
- [64:09]
Miranda Devine
Oh, really?
- [64:09]
Tulsi Gabbard
Together in the local it. He was running for a seat on the city council. I was running for a seat in the state legislature. My mom had actually been the first one in our family to. To kind of have a foray into politics. She run for board of education, and actually, you know, this was, I think. Oh, gosh, 98 or 2000, I think. No, she. I think it was in 2000 that she had run. And, you know, my parents are both teachers by trade. And, you know, I was reflecting on this over the past couple of years, just as we've been seeing a lot of the issues with our own education system come to light around the context of, you know, boys and girls, sports. And as we saw recently, the Supreme Court ruled on parents having the right to say no, I don't want my child reading these. These highly sexualized books within. Within school, their public schools. These were some of the issues that my mom was actually bringing up. She was running for and elected to the board of education because we were homeschooled. There's five kids in our family. We were homeschooled. And it was largely because my parents were concerned about what the public school system was teaching in some ways that were more. Not that. That went far beyond, you know, math and reading and science and history.
- [65:41]
Miranda Devine
Social engineering.
- [65:42]
Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. And so that it was just interesting. And I love my parents so much. They have set such a great example for me and for my siblings.
- [65:51]
Miranda Devine
And you met your husband, Abe, who was also a surfer. Tell us about him. He's a photographer. And. And tell us also about his proposal.
- [66:01]
Tulsi Gabbard
Unusual proposal. It's a very special one. We got to know each other. He's a cinematographer, and he and his friends volunteered on my first congressional campaign. And so we really became friends through that experience. The close bonds that were formed amongst this small team of people from Hawaii seeking to make positive change. It was traveling around. Yeah, it was. It was an intense and very special experience for us all. But that's where we first started to really become friends. And then I think it was about a year after I had gotten elected, Abe asked me out. And. And so many of our dates that followed were out in the ocean. No surprise there. And so when he proposed to me about a year later, he. We usually surfed in the mornings. That day, we surfed in the afternoon around sunset. And he was very insistent that this happened. And we were driving to our favorite surf spot, and he was getting very irritated at all of the stoplights and the traffic. I was like, what is going on with you? But he was trying to time it perfectly for him for us to be out. Paddled out to our spot as the sun was setting. And. And it happened as he had planned it. He pulled out this engagement ring that was attached to a flotation device that he created wrapped in gold duct tape. Class it up a bit in case he dropped it. In case he dropped it. He didn't want to lose that in the bottom of the ocean. And asked me to marry him there as we were both leaning over our surfboards. Oh, that's so cute. With each other. It was. It was very special and perfect way for us to start our lives together.
- [67:53]
Miranda Devine
And then fast forward a little bit to your decision to run for president. That was a pretty audacious thing to do for a young woman. And I Guess someone who didn't have that kind of apparatus, that certainly did.
- [68:07]
Tulsi Gabbard
Not have the apparatus.
- [68:09]
Miranda Devine
So what made you think that you could do it? Did you think you could win?
- [68:14]
Tulsi Gabbard
I felt that again when I, when I looked at the candidates who were stepping forward to run, I did not have the confidence in them to be my commander in chief. And my parents had taught us from a young age, if you see a problem, don't complain about it. You step up and do something about it. Right. So I stepped up and I thought then that, yeah, fully understand, you know, many of the other people running for president do have a pretty big apparatus. Yeah, they have a lot of money and big donors and kind of all of the things that, that, you know, you think you would need in order to run for president and have a successful candidacy. I knew that I, I didn't have any of those things, but I really believe in the power of the people and really felt from the outset, at least, I will have as fair a shot as any one of them standing on a debate stage to make my case directly to the American people. Let them decide, at least they'll have a different option to consider. Looking back, I fully underestimated the power of the media, really, quite frankly, and how, I mean, it was weaponized immediately. The very day that I had planned to announce my candidacy in Hawaii, there was an NBC story that came out. They weren't planning on publishing it until a week later because they'd asked, oh, what do you, you know, we want to get your comment. And they told us they were going to publish on a certain date. They published it as I was walking on that stage to make the announcement. And it was the beginnings of Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Asset. And where I found myself throughout the course of that campaign was kind of like me in the middle of an ocean in like a rubber dinghy boat, up against an armada of naval warships, wildly outgunned and out resourced and really unable to have that fair platform even on a debate stage. I think in most debates I had a total of 6 minutes of time total to speak to the American people and so learned some pretty important lessons about our democratic process and how a lot of decisions were being made behind the curtains about who to feature in those debates, who to kind of silence and push off into the corners. And it was truly an eye opening experience.
- [71:07]
Miranda Devine
I want to ask you about the media, but first, just any impressions that you had during that campaign of Joe Biden? Because I covered some of the Democratic primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire. And it was obvious to everybody that he was already on the cognitive decline path.
- [71:25]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, I. I had known him throughout my time in Congress. I had known his son Beau, who was serving in the National Guard at the time, as I was. And so Beau and I had kind of struck up a. A bit of a friendship around our shared service. And Joe Biden was always very kind to me in our different interactions that we had, both, you know, official and out. Out at different, you know, social functions. And that kindness carried through, through that presidential campaign. What I saw during that campaign was very different from what we very quickly saw in his decline once he. Once he came into this job.
- [72:18]
Miranda Devine
So he seemed okay at the time.
- [72:20]
Tulsi Gabbard
It was limited interaction, but based on what I saw, again, it was quite. It was. It was more in line with kind of the Uncle Joe vibe that I had at least always seen. And of course, what we saw play out ended up being something far more dark and sinister.
- [72:37]
Miranda Devine
And what about Kamala Harris? Was there anything notable about her at the time?
- [72:41]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, I had not really ever had any interaction with her prior to that. She was quite cold to me. And something that I thought was interesting was that some of these big campaign events where all of the candidates were there, usually there was a group of each candidate supporters. And I just remember this one in particular. And usually, like, you end up seeing these people, the same people all the time. And, you know, there's a rapport there. There's a friendly rapport, even though you're running against each other. And like, hey, we ran out of batteries. Do you have a. Yeah, sure. Here's a battery. Go ahead. But I remember distinctly as I was walking towards this event and I had a bunch of my supporters with me as we walked past Kamala Harris's group of supporters, they started screaming insults at us and booing, and it was like. It was. It was. I remember it because it really stood out as such a different energy and obviously a very different attitude towards us than we had as what became the norm as we were going to a lot of these events with a lot of the same people.
- [73:49]
Miranda Devine
That's quite surprising because that's not really her Persona, you know.
- [73:52]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, it depends on who you ask right.
- [73:56]
Miranda Devine
Now. The media. It's been striking that during all these declassifications, all these Russia hoax.
- [74:05]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- [74:05]
Miranda Devine
Material that you've put out, pretty incontrovertible that the very media that was involved in, you know, getting leaks and propagating the Russia hoax is strangely silent now.
- [74:18]
Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- [74:18]
Miranda Devine
Are you surprised?
- [74:18]
Tulsi Gabbard
Not not so strangely silent. I'm not surprised for a few reasons. Primary of which many of these mainstream media outlets were the ones who James Brennan and his people and John, John Brennan and his people and James Clapper and his people leaked to almost immediately after that Obama directed National Security Council.
- [74:41]
Miranda Devine
Meeting before the intelligence community assessment, weeks.
- [74:45]
Tulsi Gabbard
Before that assessment was, was completed and actually even before it had really begun being drafted. And so, and in many cases, you know, they printed these mainstream media outlets printed exactly what they were told to print without any kind of vetting or like okay, well was this always the assessment or can you give us any evidence that this is true? None of it. Because it didn't, it didn't exist and then it wasn't just a one off thing. These are mainstream media outlets that went on to repeat and build up and really advance and propagate this lie that was created by President Obama and his administration and went on to win awards, bulletproof prizes. Yes. So, so when you look at, you know, Ellen Nakashima from the Washington Post, for example, is one of those individuals. Yeah. Who won a Pulitzer Prize. My first in direct interaction with her was, was when I had been, I was going through the confirmation process for this job and she and another Washington Post reporter went out to Hawaii and were stalking and harassing members of my family, former members of my congressional staff, at their homes. My mother in particular was at her home and was about to walk in the front door and was shocked when she heard a voice behind her. There's a long pathway to the front door. This woman snuck up behind my mother and surprised her and said well, I want to talk to you about your daughter. You're not returning my phone calls. And my mom said it's because I'm not interested in talking to you. Please leave my property. So when you look at these kind of people, these kinds of people.
- [76:27]
Miranda Devine
Interesting. The Russia hoax writers were interested in trying to dig up dirt on you because I guess they wanted to stop me.
- [76:37]
Tulsi Gabbard
They wanted to block me from being able to fill the position that I'm in today.
- [76:43]
Miranda Devine
And do you think they were put up to that by the Brennan's and who would have had more awareness of what a threat you were?
- [76:51]
Tulsi Gabbard
I think my own actions over the years have made very clear that I stand for the American people and that I will not hesitate to expose the truth and call out the deep state actors of Washington. So.
- [77:08]
Miranda Devine
So you were threat.
- [77:09]
Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know exactly what conversations were had, but the fact that many of these mainstream media outlets are mobilizing as like, really? I can tell you, my press person, she was working overtime, constantly getting calls from like, hey, we're hearing that Tulsi Gabbard did this. Or she said that. She's like, it's 100% false. Once again, trying their very, very best to manufacture some concocted narrative in order to try to upend the President nominating me to serve in this position.
- [77:45]
Miranda Devine
Amazing that you got through and now you're uncovering it all. It's just fantastic.
- [77:49]
Tulsi Gabbard
I pulled out my piece of paper here because I want to. I want to. We actually pulled up some numbers around, around the lack of mainstream media coverage on this. ABC, CBS and NBC spent a total of 2,284 minutes covering this Russia hoax. They have devoted only 2 minutes and 17 seconds on the disclosures over these last couple of weeks. ABC's Good Morning America, CBS Morning, NBC's. Their morning shows combined 3 minutes and 30 seconds. And when you look at their actual coverage, they're not saying, oh, interesting. Look at these new facts that have come to light around what occurred in 2016 and 2017. No, instead, they're giving airtime to John Brennan. To John Brennan and James Clapper and others.
- [78:45]
Miranda Devine
Susan Miller.
- [78:46]
Tulsi Gabbard
Susan Miller. Who are not actually addressing what their own former employees are stating. Those who have said, no, we protested the use of the Steele dossier. We told John Brennan. These are senior CIA officials saying, we told John Brennan this is false. This is discredited intelligence. You can't use this. And he overruled them. So again, the mainstream media reaction to this, unfortunately is quite predictable because if they were to cover it honestly, they would have to admit their culpability in this egregious and historic wrong that has been committed against the American people and against our republic.
- [79:32]
Miranda Devine
Lastly, two more questions. One is on President Trump. What do you, is there anything about him that surprises you? One on one, what's he like?
- [79:41]
Tulsi Gabbard
I appreciate how, how really collaborative he is. You know, when, when there's a bunch of us in the room or a few people in the room, he's frequently asking those who are in the room at any given time, hey, what do you think about this? And sometimes they agree with his position. Other times they say, well, no, actually, I think this is a different consideration. And he actually really listens. Another thing that really struck me about him when I was first campaigning for him in this past 2024 election, it was really the first time I really started to spend more time with him was how no matter where we were, the first thing that he would do before a meeting would start, for example, he would come in and make sure that everyone was taken care of. He says, has anybody fed you? Has anybody brought you water? Do you want anything to drink? I was at, you know, we were, we had meetings at Bedminster at one point in time. And, you know, he was going and checking on everything in Bedminster to make sure it was just the way it should be. I was looking at pictures and what should be hung where and is it hung straight? And I was taking a phone call in one of the side rooms and he poked his head and he's like, are you doing okay? You got everything you need? I was like, yes, Mr. President, I'm good. He's very hospitable. And it's a genuine care. Again, I've seen it and experienced it over and over again. Every time we're in the Oval Office brief briefing him on intelligence or on a certain issue, you know, even in the Situation Room when a very intense conversation is happening, hey, make sure everybody has something to drink. Do you guys want any snacks? Like he, his genuine care for others, no matter who you are, is incredible. And I think it's a side of him that most people don't get to see.
- [81:44]
Miranda Devine
And the Situation Room there were, during the bombing campaign of the Iranian nuclear facilities, there were stories being written about how you were on the outer, you weren't in the Situation Room.
- [81:57]
Tulsi Gabbard
I practically lived there alongside everyone else during that period of time. And again, President Trump's leadership, very precise leadership, is what led to the success of that operation.
- [82:13]
Miranda Devine
Were you worried at all that it was going to turn into World War iii?
- [82:18]
Tulsi Gabbard
No, no. It, you know, our job is to be able to, you know, play out, hey, here's different scenarios that we may have to consider. Here's what happens if this, here's what happens if that. But President Trump made very clear from the outset he had a very specific objective, which unfortunately, a lot of previous presidents don't know what their objective is, which is why we see these disastrous wars and regime change, wars that turn into decades long conflicts. He had a very specific objective and he had executed a very specific and precise plan that successfully achieved that objective.
- [83:00]
Miranda Devine
And a couple of quick questions, sorry to keep, keep you, but there's so much to ask you UFOs and there's been a lot of.
- [83:08]
Tulsi Gabbard
My husband is in the corner, for the record, pumping his fist right now that you're asking this question.
- [83:14]
Miranda Devine
So, I mean, is there anything. We've had some declassification of some very Strange videos that look like they are, you know, unidentified flying objects. Is there anything in the files that you think you could find or you have found?
- [83:30]
Tulsi Gabbard
Nothing that I'm prepared to talk about today.
- [83:34]
Miranda Devine
So watch this space.
- [83:36]
Tulsi Gabbard
Say what?
- [83:37]
Miranda Devine
Watch this space.
- [83:39]
Tulsi Gabbard
We are contin. I'm just going to say this. Yeah. We're continuing to look for the truth and share that truth with the American people.
- [83:50]
Miranda Devine
The truth is out there. Yes, it is. So do you believe that there could be aliens?
- [83:57]
Tulsi Gabbard
I, I, I, I honestly like my personal belief. I have my own views and opinions.
- [84:02]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [84:02]
Tulsi Gabbard
In this role, I got to be careful with. Right. With, with, with what I share.
- [84:08]
Miranda Devine
Very interesting.
- [84:10]
Tulsi Gabbard
And I'm laughing, My husband's laughing in the corner because he, we have these same conversations, and obviously I don't share any classified information. Yeah. Outside of my building with those who have clearances. But it's, it's, this is, this is fun that he's here to watch this.
- [84:25]
Miranda Devine
Right now because it's so interesting. I think it's one of those burning things, of course, we grew up with.
- [84:30]
Tulsi Gabbard
Of course. Yeah. There, there are a lot of questions and there's, there's a lot that's been put out there. And, and there's, you know, I'm still going through and looking through what, what do we know and what is it that we don't know?
- [84:46]
Miranda Devine
And the New Jersey, the strange objects over New Jersey were drones.
- [84:51]
Tulsi Gabbard
I still have a lot of questions around that. Yeah, you know, I've, I've heard, I've heard what the, the public official line is. I, I just personally still have a lot of questions that are unanswered. Yeah. Because it wasn't just New Jersey. It was happening in different parts of the country. Oh, really? Yeah.
- [85:08]
Miranda Devine
And we had the Chinese spy balloon. I mean, who knows what, what the Chinese could be sending over.
- [85:16]
Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. There's a lot of classified information about that. Wow.
- [85:22]
Miranda Devine
So many questions. And just lastly, Epstein, do you think there is any evidence that he could be, could have been a intelligence asset either for us or for foreign agencies?
- [85:36]
Tulsi Gabbard
I can tell you I haven't seen anything that's come across my desk that reflects that. If that were to change and there were some credible information or intelligence that, that did come to light, you know, the President has made clear, if there's anything that's credible out there, put it out there for the American people to see, and I would do exactly that.
- [86:00]
Miranda Devine
Are you surprised that that whole thing became such a whirling dervish of a scandal that now to the point where the media is saying to the president after he's pulled off the biggest trade deal ever over in Scotland. Did you do this to divert from the Epstein story?
- [86:17]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, this is the mainstream media. So no, I'm not surprised that there are folks out there who are really interested and concerned about this and who want to see if there's more information out there than bring it to light. But I guess I'm also not surprised by the mainstream media's sudden obsession with this topic that none of them covered or asked President Biden about during his entire four years in office, as far as I know. So again, when we look at what the mainstream media is focused on, they in the case of the most important issue that we're talking about here, about this lie that was created by President Obama and his team that really threatens the integrity of our Democratic republic, given it resulted in what was essentially and resulted intentionally in what was a years long coup, the mainstream media chooses not to cover it because it is inconvenient for what they are trying to do, which is to continuously try to do all they can to block President Trump from enacting the agenda the American people elected him to do. So. They should be held accountable for their lack of care for the issues that are really most important to the American people and promise.
- [87:50]
Miranda Devine
This is the last question. Success. The secrets of success. You are a successful person. You've been around a lot of successful people. What are the elements you think that create success?
- [88:05]
Tulsi Gabbard
You know, success can be defined in a lot of different ways. I can only speak for myself and the peace that I find every day in my work. It is rooted in my faith in God and his eternal love for me and my desire to be pleasing to God in all that I do. And knowing that all I can do is my very best and I do every day and I leave the rest in his hands. The outcome is truly out of my control. So I will do my best in all the ways that I can and have faith that things will work out in the way that they are supposed to.
- [88:50]
Miranda Devine
That's wonderful. Thank you so much.
- [88:52]
Tulsi Gabbard
Director Gabba Cholsey, great talking with you.
- [88:54]
Miranda Devine
You too. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Miranda Devine and this is podforce One. Please hit the like and subscribe buttons so you don't miss any future interviews with the most powerful people in Washington and the world.