← Pod Force One
Pod Force One
Vivek Ramaswamy reveals his shocking school bullying story and what he learned from Elon Musk
00:52:26
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- [00:02]
Miranda Devine
Welcome Back to the PodForce One podcast. I'm Miranda Devine. We are in Midtown Manhattan today where we are joined by former presidential candidate, entrepreneur, and Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy. Thanks for joining us, Vivek.
- [00:19]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It's good to see you.
- [00:20]
Miranda Devine
Seems like forever ago that I was on your campaign bus in New Hampshire.
- [00:24]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That's right.
- [00:24]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [00:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That's right. Yeah. It does feel like forever ago. It's.
- [00:27]
Miranda Devine
It was a wild ride. You had a fantastic run there.
- [00:30]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It was wild. It was wild. Yeah. And we have great memories of it.
- [00:34]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And since then, so much has happened with you. There was Doge with Elon Musk. And now you're running for the governor of Ohio.
- [00:43]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yep.
- [00:43]
Miranda Devine
Is that a consolation prize?
- [00:46]
Vivek Ramaswamy
No, I think it's. For me, it's an ultimate prize to lead from the front. And one of the things that I've learned about myself, I said it during the presidential campaign, and I think I've learned about myself that it's definitely true about me, is that I'm somebody who's best positioned to lead from the front. And I view this as a form of self criticism. But I don't make for particularly good number two. So. So that's. You got to know your weaknesses, and for me, that's one of mine.
- [01:12]
Miranda Devine
And your primary opponent is, or potentially for the Democrats, is Amy Acton, who's described as the Dr. Fauci of Ohio.
- [01:22]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I think correctly described as such. Yes.
- [01:24]
Miranda Devine
Is that how you're going to one of the. Your sort of methods of attack for her?
- [01:29]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I think about less as attack and more just. Let's talk about what's true. Right. So she doesn't really have much of a public record of taking a position on really any matter of public importance other than COVID policy. And she had different viewpoints than mine both at the time and today.
- [01:44]
Miranda Devine
Like what?
- [01:45]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, she led Ohio to be the first state in the country that actually shut down our public schools.
- [01:51]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [01:51]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Which I thought was not an area where we wanted to be first. In fact, an area where I did not want Ohio to shut down our public schools at all. But the irony is, see, I went to public schools in Cincinnati through eighth grade, and then I went to a private Jesuit high school called St. Xavier for high school. You look back now, Cincinnati public high schools, they were closed for a year and a half during COVID Private high schools like the one I went to were closed for five days or less. The irony is that those kids in the public schools are never going to get that year. And A half of their education back. Which leaves us with a situation that's so telling. With modern politics, the people who preach the most about inequality are often the ones who implemented the policies that create that inequality.
- [02:35]
Miranda Devine
Isn't that gnarly?
- [02:36]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Do you think it is deliberate? You know, I. In this particular individual's case, I don't think she was deliberate in saying that I want to actually penalize these inner city black students, which is exactly what she ended up doing. But what about the left in. But I think the left in general, if you think about it as a. As a movement, what is intentional? It's the amalgam of collective incentives to say that if you create the very conditions that allow your relevance to persist, then in that sense it is intentional. Yeah. Devious intentional. We try. Do they actively think they're harming those people? No. But do their incentives add up to create a dependence on the government and a dependence on those policies that preserves their relevance or their votes and their votes? Of course. That's persisting. Staying power, then the answer to that, I think in that incentive amalgam sense is yes. I'll give you an analogy outside of politics. Right. In the nonprofit world, Right. We've. We've thankfully lived the American dream. We've had an opportunity to be philanthropic and evaluate different nonprofits. And one of the things you see in certain nonprofit organizations is at a certain point they become addicted to the problems they want to solve. Because if you actually solved the problem, then you wouldn't have a reason to exist anymore. And I think a big part of that, that same syndrome exists in much of the modern Democratic party. Imagine if they actually solved the problem of generational poverty. Imagine if they actually solved the problem of inequitable access to high quality education, which we know how to do through school choice and educational mobility. If they actually solve those problems, then they wouldn't have a need to continue to actually exist. Yes, but the existence of the problem creates a new type of bondage in the United States of America. I think that, you know, I don't mean to be overly dramatic about this, but it was. You trace our history. Not that long ago, 160 years ago, it was a Democratic Party that favored slavery in the United States.
- [04:31]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [04:32]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And there's a new kind of psychological slavery of a dependence on the government that the modern Democratic Party needs to create to persist in its quest for power. And I do think that for the far fringe of the left, which doesn't represent a majority of Democrats, I believe by number, but they absolutely represent what has a stranglehold on the modern Democratic Party by way of power? That's exactly what this game is about.
- [04:57]
Miranda Devine
Yeah, it's very cynical.
- [04:58]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah.
- [04:59]
Miranda Devine
And if you win as governor of Ohio, what would you do that was. Would be different from your predecessor and from other governors around the country to fix those problems?
- [05:11]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So one of my areas of focus that you asked, what's different? And I could tell you all the things that would be very similar. That we want to become a zero income tax state like Texas and Florida.
- [05:20]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [05:20]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I favor educational choice, moving it to the next level. That's in the, that's in the standard canon of Republican policies, which in those areas I largely favor. What, what it was different is your question. So on economic growth, on education, I'll give you a couple of different niche ideas, but that I think can actually catapult Ohio to the forefront of the country. And by the way, that is my objective. You think about Texas and Florida. Ohio should not be living in their shadow for the next 10 years. I want to lead our state to be the state that creates a new frontier for the country, because it used to be. It used to be we were the frontier of America. We were the first frontier of America, actually.
- [05:54]
Miranda Devine
Seven presidents from Ohio.
- [05:55]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Absolutely. And you know, think about Neil Armstrong and John Glenn and the Wright brothers landed on the moon, orbiting the earth, the first people to take flight, that was Ohio. And I would like for us to be the next frontier as well. And that requires thinking outside the box a little bit. So you think about the path to zero income tax. What's the first step to get there? We'll get rid of the capital gains tax in Ohio, which attracts entrepreneurs to our state. Think about people building in Silicon Valley or New York City or Austin, Texas. If you have zero capital gains tax and combine that with founder friendly incorporation statutes. That's the stuff of economic development that you don't hear in campaign slogans. Somewhat technical stuff. I am an entrepreneur. I've built successful companies. I think if we have a state that's run by an entrepreneur for entrepreneurs to actually build in the state, those are easy ways to catapult Ohio forward.
- [06:45]
Miranda Devine
Because what went wrong with Ohio?
- [06:47]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I think there's, I mean there's a lot that happened over the last 70 years. When you think about the deindustrialization of the country, a lot of Ohio's sectors where we were at the leading edge of the first industrial revolution, See, Toledo was the glass manufacturing capital of the world. Akron was the leading rubber manufacturing capital of the world. Youngstown and Cleveland were the steel production capitals of the west at that point in time. Those were the leading edge sectors. And what happened is as the economy moved Ohio, what was once at the forefront, began to fall behind areas like Silicon Valley that seized the new forefront. So the way I look at it is if Silicon Valley led the way for the last 10 years, we need to revitalize it and make the Ohio River Valley lead for the next 10. And that means not just the sectors of the past, we build on those foundations, but to also embrace the sectors of the future. Even the state where we embrace AI and quantum computing, not to take old jobs, but to make new jobs through workforce training and education. And that's the other area where you say what's different in Ohio from other standard Republican canon talking points is the traditional Republican canon on education, which I favor, is school choice. But I don't think we've had a serious Republican governor who has rolled up our sleeves and actually elevated the standards of performance of public schools themselves. And there's a lot of common sense reforms that we should be able to adopt in our public schools that allow them to compete with the best of.
- [08:19]
Miranda Devine
Those alternatives, like phonics for reading.
- [08:21]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Absolutely. And standards to go along with it. So there's a thing called the science of reading. It technically exists in Ohio. It's not being fully implemented in the execution in many of our public schools and urban districts. But let's talk about actual standards. And what I'm about to say won't be controversial to most parents, but is really controversial in education policy. If you can't read by the end of third grade in Ohio, on my watch, you won't be going to fourth grade. Right. The third grade reading guarantee. And why is that important? That's the age at which in your educational development, you need to go from learning to read to reading to learn. And if that transition never happens, you're four times less likely to be able to graduate from high school.
- [09:01]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [09:01]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Therefore, more likely to end up in jail, more likely to end up in poverty. And yet you look at what percentage of people in Ohio public schools, in the big eight school districts are actually meeting that standard. It's less than half. It's under 45%.
- [09:13]
Miranda Devine
Shocking.
- [09:14]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It's shocking. And yet it's controversial to say that we're going to apply that actual standard. Think about at least algebra competency by the end of eighth grade. Now, unlike the third grade reading guarantee, maybe not 100% of people will be algebra competent by eighth grade, but that should at least be the default standard.
- [09:31]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [09:32]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And a big part of the problem. Ren, It's a little controversial to talk about, but it turns out that many of the math teachers teaching math are not actually proficient.
- [09:42]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [09:42]
Vivek Ramaswamy
In the subjects they're actually teaching.
- [09:44]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. So how do we teach that?
- [09:46]
Vivek Ramaswamy
We got to apply standards to our teachers.
- [09:48]
Miranda Devine
Right. And better education.
- [09:49]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Better education at a young age. I mean, if you think about math teachers in some ways. On one hand, our licensing requirements to be a teacher are over expansive. They keep out good people. On the other hand, they're under inclusive because for all the licensing standards we have, they don't even license them for competency in math to be a math teacher. So it's. Would you do that? Absolutely. Absolutely. We would. Especially in math. You also. I want those teachers to be paid more.
- [10:10]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [10:10]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Because if you're competent in math, there's turns out there's a whole economy for people who are competent in math to get jobs outside of education. Yeah. We need to understand that those teachers may need to be paid differentially.
- [10:19]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Vivek Ramaswamy
75% of 8th graders right now across the country are not proficient in math. The average student in China is a full four years ahead of the average student here in the US which if we do the math on that. Okay. A seventh grader here is performing at the same standard as a third grade student in China, which is totally unacceptable.
- [10:39]
Miranda Devine
Yeah. And Vietnam and Singapore.
- [10:41]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Oh, Singapore, five years.
- [10:42]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [10:43]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So an eighth grader is the equivalent of a third grader in Singapore.
- [10:45]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [10:46]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I use China as an example. Just because they're the same across the West.
- [10:49]
Miranda Devine
I mean, whether it's Australia or England.
- [10:51]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah.
- [10:52]
Miranda Devine
It. We're all falling behind. The Southeast Asian countries, China, we're going.
- [10:58]
Vivek Ramaswamy
To turn that around.
- [10:58]
Miranda Devine
Why is that?
- [11:00]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, look, I think that the question is prioritization. How much do we prioritize elevating our educational achievement standards? And frankly, I think this has been a failure of both political parties. It is the least discussed issue relative to its importance in American politics.
- [11:16]
Miranda Devine
Fads like anti phonics, whole word language, new math, that's all complicated teaching. You know, I've, I've been in Vietnam in very poor schools with they've got 40 kids to the classroom and they're just learning old school math.
- [11:33]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I mean if you've used adopt Singapore math curriculum in the US you already see better results in math. Absolutely.
- [11:41]
Miranda Devine
Would you do that in Ohio?
- [11:42]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I think it's reasonable to do it. Wow. So we're looking at curricular enhancements. And I'm not saying Singapore math is the only way, but it's a pretty darn good standard relative to what we're getting here in most of our public schools. Now, a lot of this is also something that's got to start with the family. It's not. The government's going to fix everything. So when I say we adopt Singapore math here, you do see important improvements in academic standards, but not to the full extent that you see in Singapore. A big part of that is a family emphasis on education in Singapore as well. So I think part of this job of leading as a president, or in the case of the nation, or the governor, in the case of Ohio, is that half the job of a chief executive is, yes, to set these policies, and we're going to do that, but half the job is also just identifying what's important as a policy and even cultural priority. I think we're in need of a modern Apollo mission. Right. The Apollo mission rallied and galvanized the United States. And I think elevating our educational achievement standards can be the modern Apollo mission of our time. And I think it's necessary, by the way, I mean, if you think about entering this era of AI and quantum computing.
- [12:47]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [12:47]
Vivek Ramaswamy
If we roll this forward 20 years and our students are still four years behind China and five years behind Singapore, that will be. That will mark the end of American exceptionalism and greatness unless we turn that ship around. Now. I'm confident we can, and I'm confident that we will in Ohio and as a model for the country. But I think that is the moral imperative in front of those of us who care about preserving America's purpose, purpose in the world and in human history. It starts with making sure that we have an educated enough generation of citizens to be able to compete at the leading edge of a modern economy rather than to see themselves victimized by it, which has largely been the dogma of the left, which has largely infiltrated K through 12 education, which in turn accounts for the abandonment of those standards, those standards themselves labeled as racist or inequitable or whatever, instead of recognizing that the application of these standards is actually what's going to lift up people of every race and actually create the conditions for the people from top to bottom to be able to flourish. That's the turnaround we need. And my criticism of the left is I think they're responsible for a lot of those lowering or abandonment of standards. My criticism of our friends and our coalition, myself included in that, on the right, is we haven't done enough to be able to while in power elevate and apply those standards. And, and that's what we're going to change when I'm elected in Ohio. Isabelle Brown. Isabel Brown. Isabel Brown. The wait is almost over. She's joining Daily Wire plus with the Isabel Brown Show.
- [14:12]
Miranda Devine
Cannot wait for you guys to see.
- [14:14]
Vivek Ramaswamy
How hard we've been working. I could not be more excited for this new adventure. You can expect larger than life guests, deeper questions. To the nerds meeting the President of the United States and the Vice President. And now meeting our new American Pope. This is crazy.
- [14:29]
Miranda Devine
Let's jump in.
- [14:30]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Join me every weekday for the Isabel Brown show on Daily Wire plus or wherever you get your podcasts. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try@mintmobile.com sl switch upfront payment of 45 per 3 month plan. 15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. C mint mobile.com.
- [15:09]
Miranda Devine
We'Re sort of bordering on your very controversial tweet about H1B visas, which I think you were misunderstood and on the right people ran away with that and said that you wanting to have influxes of, you know, in immigrants into the country to change the culture and that you were critical of American culture. You mentioned, you said, you know, we need to change the culture so that the jock and the homecoming queen, I'm paraphrasing, aren't elevated over the valedictorian or the Math Olympiad.
- [15:40]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That they're all elevated is what we want. Right.
- [15:43]
Miranda Devine
So when you made that tweet, I think you were on holiday in Brazil or something and you just tossed it off, not realizing you'd get millions of views and be very controversial.
- [15:53]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, as you know, when I ran for president, I'm not afraid to start a conversation that we need to have. And this is the conversation is by the way, on the. On H1B. Is that a broken system? Of course. I've said so millions of times. That's irrelevant compared to our own deeper failure in education that we need to address. That's what I'm talking about.
- [16:10]
Miranda Devine
So.
- [16:11]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And people.
- [16:11]
Miranda Devine
But you misunderstood or what was your point there when you talked about, you know, they seemed like there was an element of bitterness. You Know, the math nerd who was, you know, felt that the. The. The jock was elevated over him.
- [16:26]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I think that we got to celebrate success in every form. And what made this country great is that we're the country where every path is open to every child. And there's this conversation around, okay, why are we less competitive than some of these other countries compared to where we were 55, 60 years ago, where we were in 1950, where we were after World War II? We were the unambiguous leaders of the world. Where are we today? Right. For those who say, myself included, that it is time to make America great again, where does the again come from? We wouldn't have to make America great again if we already were where we were immediately after where we came out of World War II. And a big part of that failure is the fact that our education system has fallen behind. It's a moral failure. And if we really want to lead in those sectors of the future, what do I want for our economy? I want one where people who are born and raised in Ohio go on to achieve the maximum of their potential, that they are the workers who are lifted up by a modern economy. That's what I want in order to achieve that. If we're really serious about it. Not lip service on Twitter. A lot of people do lip service on Twitter. If you actually. If you actually really care about the problem and you're not talking about fixing public education in this country, that means you're not serious. You're entirely unserious. If you care, if. If you're talking about elevating American workers, which I care about, but you're not talking about the quality and the failures of our public schools. It means you don't mean what you say because you're not actually paying attention to the root cause. And I refuse to abandon the root cause. Focus. And that's an uncomfortable message for some people. I mean, the idea of if you care about somebody, you know, you tell them the truth. If you care about yourself, you can tell them what they want to hear. That's easy. But if you care about somebody, you tell them the truth. And I've always been somebody who challenges the people we love the most. And I would love to be challenged by them, too. That's what makes our country better. And frankly, I think we need more leaders who are willing to challenge our audiences, challenge our own base, to lift ourselves up and be the best version of ourselves. That's the kind of leader I'm going to be for Ohio. That's the that's the country I grew up in, where even many of my best friends are people who we disagree with vehemently. But we ought to be able to have actual hard, open debates rather than just giving people the. The pions and the standard, you know, standard trite slogans that.
- [18:38]
Miranda Devine
So what triggered our politics? What triggered you then to make that tweet while you're on holidays?
- [18:44]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It triggered. Is. Is, you know, anything prompted? Yeah. Well, I think that the fact is, in November, we won, and it's a beautiful thing, and I want us to see and use that victory to actually fix so many of the failures that have held our country back. And President Trump correctly. I can't. I went to so many of his rallies over the last year and traveled this country to do my part to help him get reelected. And at every one of those speeches, what did he say? We are a nation in decline, he said at every one of those speeches. And why do you say it? He said it because in some measure, it's true. It's true. Now, maybe it lands differently when I say it.
- [19:22]
Miranda Devine
Why is that?
- [19:23]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I don't know. Apparently it does for some people, but it's the truth. And the reality is, even if we're a nation in decline, we don't have to stay that way. That's the part I want to get to see. We may have been a nation in decline for the last half decade, we may have been a nation in decline for much of even the last half century, but it doesn't have to stay that way. I believe we can still be a nation in our ascent, but we have to confront what the actual failures are. And I think one of those deepest failures, one of those deepest failures is the failure in our education system. It is a moral imperative to make sure that our kids and their generation are equipped to be at the forefront of a modern economy. And are we prioritizing that to the extent that we should right now as a country? No, we're not. I think the left is mostly responsible for the failure. But is the right doing everything that we should to elevate those standards? Miranda? I don't think we are. Not yet. And it's a big part of why I was called into, you know, into hopefully being in a position to elevate those standards of performance in a positive way. And I think that is a precondition for reviving American greatness. You think about the woke infection, right? We. And here we have a lot of unity on the right. We'll talk about the left's rejection of excellence, the left's rejection of American unity in favor of racial and identitarian division, gender, race, sexual orientation. I mean, I wrote my first book at a time when people didn't even, you know, popularize the word Woke Inc. Woke Inc. Was my book at the time where people, many people, huge bestseller it was. And people didn't know what that, you know, were associated with that word. And I called that out because that was the threat to American exceptionalism.
- [20:58]
Miranda Devine
But just to go back a minute, I'm interested in education and your experience. Education, because you went to a majority black middle school in Ohio, must have been tough because. Because you were thrown down the stairs and had to have surgery. Tell us a little bit about what it was like at that school. And how did you not see yourself as a victim after that, really? I mean, experience of being.
- [21:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I mean, everyone, you know, you go through, Everybody goes through the parts of growing up. So for me, I'm grateful for every part of my upbringing, including tough public schools, all the way to the Jesuit private high school. I went. But tell us all the way to.
- [21:36]
Miranda Devine
Harvard and Yale and then we'll go.
- [21:38]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Absolutely. Yeah. So. So we went to public school schools first through eighth grade, went to school district in southwest Ohio and had a great experience with teachers there, many of whom touched and changed my life.
- [21:48]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [21:49]
Vivek Ramaswamy
But the junior high school I went to was also a place where there's often knives brought to school, there's often notices. There's an entire wing that they would call the success wing, which was the wing that they would tell us, don't go there. Because many of the students who were there were often held back by two, three, four years.
- [22:07]
Miranda Devine
They call it the success, maybe they.
- [22:08]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Call it the success wing, but that's the place where you definitely don't want to go. This is what, 1990s?
- [22:13]
Miranda Devine
19.
- [22:14]
Vivek Ramaswamy
1990S, yeah.
- [22:14]
Miranda Devine
The era of everyone wins a prize.
- [22:17]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That's right. I mean, the participation trophy culture began.
- [22:20]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [22:20]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And I think that we'll come back to this. But in some measure, we've even turned graduation from high school into a participation trophy. And I don't think that's doing anyone any favors.
- [22:28]
Miranda Devine
No.
- [22:28]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Now, a lot of these students, I mean, I had the ultimate privilege that many of the students who were in the success swing or other parts of the school didn't have. I came from a stable two parent household with a focus on education, instilling in us the values that allowed us to succeed.
- [22:42]
Miranda Devine
And that was unusual in that school.
- [22:44]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It was, I would say, I mean, there was it was a diverse range of people in that school. There were some. Some very. People came from great family backgrounds who also had the ability to succeed and do great things. But there were a lot of people who came from tough, challenged backgrounds, very different from my own. There was a history to that annexation of different school districts that created the district that I was in. Looking back at that, I'm immensely grateful for that experience. But I had A French teacher, Mr. Wagner, in eighth grade who came to me and said, listen, you need to get out of here.
- [23:13]
Miranda Devine
Really?
- [23:13]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah. He sat my parents down. And my parents weren't thinking about it. My dad was working at ge. He was working at GE in an era of layoffs under Jack Welch's tenure. Yes. You know, there's different job security concerns. Their plan was not to send us to private school, but when a teacher said, sits down, me down, and my parents down and says, for the betterment of yourself and your kid, you need to get out of this school and go to a place where they can actually celebrate academic achievement and success. That's what led my Hindu parents to arrive at the conclusion when they weren't planning to write a check. Yeah, just write the check out of their savings to be able to send me to Saint X High School, Saint Xavier in Cincinnati. And to me, that was a totally different experience too, because I was one of the lone non Catholic Hindu student in a Catholic environment.
- [24:01]
Miranda Devine
But you weren't at risk of being thrown down the stairs.
- [24:03]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't a great event.
- [24:05]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [24:05]
Vivek Ramaswamy
You get up, you pick up and you move on. But that was a wake up call for us to say. And you know what? That kid probably. I mean, I don't know who it was. Probably came from tough background of their own. We think about what a lot of students go through that put themselves in a tough position. That's what we're in this to change at the end of the day. And so I think we got to have empathy for people who come from tough circumstances. My parents did what was right for me, which was to go to Saint X, which ended up great high school experience.
- [24:33]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [24:33]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And give us a great education in the process. But what I want to do is to say we're not going to leave behind those kids in those public schools. It's not that getting out isn't the only option. In fact, getting out should not be the only option, but it has to.
- [24:46]
Miranda Devine
Be in that situation.
- [24:48]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, what we want to do now, you think about this beauty of this country and the state where I grew up, this is the country on God's green earth where that kid who grew up as the kid of immigrants who came to this country with nothing, went to a challenged public school environment, had rough experiences there, now has gone on to succeed at the highest levels of American business, ran for president, became the youngest person in history of the Republican party to do it, and now, God willing, in a position to lead that same state where I was born and raised and hopefully to change that state for the better by elevating the standards of those very public schools. That's what makes this country great.
- [25:27]
Miranda Devine
It's a wonderful story.
- [25:28]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And that's my gratitude. It's my sense of gratitude for that journey is what guides me in this mission.
- [25:34]
Miranda Devine
And I guess that experience built resilience in you and an ability to bounce back. And your mother is a psychiatrist, your dad was an engineer for ge and they came here from India. Why did they do that? What were their circumstances like back home? And what do you think their experiences instilled in you as the American born son of migrants?
- [26:02]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, well, my dad was from a village in rural southern India and it was not even. We had India in the cities, but this was, this is rural. This is an area where they had rotating power outages.
- [26:13]
Miranda Devine
Wow.
- [26:13]
Vivek Ramaswamy
On a regular basis, even when we would go back and visit my grandparents in the 1990s. My mom grew up in different cities around India, from Bombay to. To Mysore where she went to medical school. And the one thing they had.
- [26:25]
Miranda Devine
So there were different classes.
- [26:26]
Vivek Ramaswamy
There were, they were. One's a doctor, one was an engineer and that. But one was from the city, one is from rural.
- [26:31]
Miranda Devine
So one was from a high born family and one was from a. I.
- [26:34]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Would say, I would say that's a little bit of a arc and outdated. Yeah, yeah, super. I mean it's like, like the left talking about like, you know, somebody grew up in a city versus in the suburb here. They were both from. I would say they were neither one of us from upper class circumstances.
- [26:46]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [26:47]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:47]
Miranda Devine
And your dad must have been very smart.
- [26:49]
Vivek Ramaswamy
They were both very smart, actually. Yeah. Smart in different ways. So they're both thankfully, you know, highly intelligent people.
- [26:55]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Vivek Ramaswamy
They came to this country. My dad in pursuit of higher education, my mom married my father, came over here to complete her residency and then eventually she treated patients from the Veterans Administration, the VA in Cincinnati, to older patients in nursing homes Right. In southwest Ohio. But their journey, which is, which is. I mean, it's amazing you think about this. Like you. My dad came in late 70s and back then, you don't have cell phones, you don't have phone connection. You're in a totally different place, you know, totally different environment. To be able to pack your bags, go around the world and say that we're going to make it in the greatest country known to the history of man takes gumption.
- [27:32]
Miranda Devine
Does.
- [27:32]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And so for me, that was part of what I took away from. From their story and upbringing is hardship is something that happens to you in life. Victimhood is a choice.
- [27:43]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [27:43]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And we don't choose to be victims.
- [27:45]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [27:45]
Vivek Ramaswamy
We choose to be victorious. And that was the mentality that my parents instilled in me. And my dad had a. Had a slogan growing up, is, if you're going to stand out, you might as well be outstanding. And I think there's something very American about that, is the American creed, this idea of pursuing excellence, pursuing and celebrating success. And I think it is what draws so many of the greatest minds from across the world through most of our nation's history.
- [28:11]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [28:11]
Vivek Ramaswamy
You know, to this great country we have. I want to preserve that. That optimism and that sense of mobility and success in our country.
- [28:21]
Miranda Devine
And adventure.
- [28:22]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And adventure, absolutely. And, you know, you're taking risk.
- [28:25]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [28:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That, too, is part of the American way, American culture. And talked about, you know, Ohio, even as a frontier. Those are people who took risks to go West. You think about people who come to this country to take risks, to participate in the system of creating value. Think about my own success, as in the American dream was as an entrepreneur, you take risks, sometimes you fail, sometimes you succeed. But that is the grit, the texture of the American dream. And that's what. That's the spirit that I want to see us revive and go back to the education system. I think it is the best place, Miranda, with the next generation to cultivate that American spirit that I think we're longing for.
- [29:03]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [29:03]
Vivek Ramaswamy
In the country.
- [29:04]
Miranda Devine
And did your mother psychoanalyze you at all? I mean, what was it like to.
- [29:08]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Have a mother who was.
- [29:09]
Miranda Devine
Who was a shrink?
- [29:10]
Vivek Ramaswamy
She found her way. So her specialty was geriatric psychiatry, so she was particularly taken care of. So maybe later patients and. Yeah. Yeah. When I, you know, hopefully, God willing, we're all alive and doing. Doing well and healthy.
- [29:21]
Miranda Devine
Healthy.
- [29:21]
Vivek Ramaswamy
But.
- [29:21]
Miranda Devine
But did she give you any sort of strategies for success or for.
- [29:26]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I think they had a very simple formula. When in doubt, work hard. When in doubt, work hard. It's like I told you, I'm a tennis fanatic.
- [29:33]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [29:33]
Vivek Ramaswamy
It's like a strategy. Best advice I get from A tennis coach is if you feel like you're having an off day on the court, some days your rhythm is off or whatever. What's the best thing you can do is just excess footwork. Just go extra hard on the small steps, put a little extra effort in and that's usually how you're going to find your.
- [29:51]
Miranda Devine
Really?
- [29:51]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah. So that's on the tennis court and it generally, generally works. Okay. And this is, you know, advice a lot of pros would get to.
- [29:58]
Miranda Devine
Fantastic.
- [29:58]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That advice writ large to life was probably the best advice that my parents would have given me when I was young too is when in doubt, work hard at what you want to achieve. And most of the times things are going to work themselves out. Now there's certain areas where you're never going to, you know, different people have different natural gifts. I love playing basketball as a kid, but I'm six feet tall. I was never destined to play in the NBA. Right. So there's certain things that you know when you hit the outer limits of where your capacities are. That's just the truth. And I've been so blessed in other ways. We have other natural capacities we're able to use.
- [30:31]
Miranda Devine
And tennis, you were amazing. You're a national champion.
- [30:34]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, national champion is an overstatement. Oh, but I was. Yeah, I would love to take that and accept that, but I was, I was a good player. Yeah, right.
- [30:40]
Miranda Devine
And when did you start playing and what I played.
- [30:43]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So I played, we played a bunch of sports till I was probably in third, fourth, fifth grade. And then it actually was when my dad. So I mentioned the, the ge, you know, turmoil or whatever under Jack Welch. So he had an ability to keep his job security by going to night school at Northern Kentucky University Law School. And by the way, the idea of the advice they gave me, they practiced what they preached.
- [31:04]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [31:04]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So he faces job insecurity. What does he do when in doubt? Work a little extra hard. So law school, he went to night school. 4 years full time job a day. 4 years 45 minute plus drive to Northern Kentucky from Cincinnati and back. And by the way, sometimes I would do those drives and be in sixth grade in the back of the law class with him. Got a firsthand experience of what that hard work actually looked like. But anyway, that required my brother, who's four years younger and I, we'd have team sports, soccer, basketball. My mom was then single piloting. So we had to consolidate to a place where we could actually play the same sport at the same time.
- [31:38]
Miranda Devine
Oh, I see.
- [31:38]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So that was the Genesis of tennis, right? Yeah. So my brother started four years younger than me playing seriously, and he was like a national champ.
- [31:45]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [31:46]
Vivek Ramaswamy
He got to be.
- [31:46]
Miranda Devine
He's better than you.
- [31:47]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah. He's. I hate to admit it in public like this, but I hope he doesn't listen to this, but, yes, he is better than me. Yeah. And he got, you know, he's four years younger and grew up playing with me and people my age. That was what created. It was my mom having to, you know, decide we couldn't have two soccer games at the same time while my dad is, you know, at night school for law school after work. So we consolidated on tennis, and it worked out for the better. I mean, my brother got really good and I got. Yeah, I got, you know, I would say humbly, quite good as well.
- [32:16]
Miranda Devine
So firstborn of two boys, obviously, you're going to be quite an alpha. And you mentioned before that you don't do very well as being number two.
- [32:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I don't.
- [32:26]
Miranda Devine
And with Elon, I guess that must have been part of the mix. I mean, I was a bit surprised that that was a job that you were given by President Trump after the election. Were you a bit disappointed that you weren't given a Cabinet post?
- [32:41]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I was offered a Cabinet post. Oh, yeah. But I, again, I'll reserve that between myself and President Trump. There are a couple that were discussed. But for me, what was interesting was one of my.
- [32:51]
Miranda Devine
You said no, you'd prefer Doge.
- [32:53]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. And one of my core things that I ran on for US President, core platform was taken down the overgrown regulatory state. You think about the fourth branch of government. It is this overgrown bureaucracy. And I've traveled this country, and I travel my home state of Ohio, too. You meet a lot of people who would say we have too much red tape. I haven't met one person who say we need a little more red tape in this country. And I do think that that is the wet blanket on our economy that's choking the country from its maximal potential. I continue to believe that. That we're making progress. So for me, when I thought about what I wanted to do and make a. I was already set on running for governor of Ohio, but for a period of time in the administration where it could be most helpful, that's where my focus was. And I continue to believe that is one of the areas where we can unlock real potential. I was really glad to, you know, make what I. What I hope were some useful contributions for two and a half months of working intensely and setting up Doge for what I thought was the path it was heading. But, you know, at a certain point, you gotta follow your own, your own natural calling. And as I said, I'm.
- [33:59]
Miranda Devine
Why do you think Donna turned into a tech. Because, I mean, at the beginning, when you wrote that Wall Street Journal piece with Elon Musk, it seemed like more of an outside the government, as you say, sort of a takedown or a shrinking or a reassessment of the bureaucratic state, the administrative state state. And yet it just became kind of tech support, as Elon called it. Were you surprised by that? Why did that happen?
- [34:24]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I mean, I'll leave, you know, Elon took the reins for Doge and, and worked with President Trump on that. So I'll leave that to. To. To him and others to discuss.
- [34:33]
Miranda Devine
Successful. Up to a point.
- [34:35]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, from my perspective, we got a few things we got to address in the country. Right. So one is we have the overgrown regulatory state that can be addressed through executive power. And then we have an overgrown national debt problem. Yeah. And that needs to be addressed through legislation. So. So my own perspective is that, oh, growth. A combination of both. I mean, I think at this point, both is required. I mean, those are two sides of the same coin. But it has to still be addressed through legislation that spawns that growth. Now, deregulation is part of giving us the tailwind for that growth. So you're right, they do go together. But my view is executive power a great way to deregulate. Cut red tape.
- [35:09]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [35:09]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And Trump is getting a head start in that direction. I want to see more in that direction at the state level, which is a big part of where I'm focused in Ohio is cutting red tape.
- [35:17]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [35:17]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And then at the federal level, at some point, we're going to have to confront the national debt problem in the country where it's right now 37 trillion approaching and growing. I think it's on track to be 60, 65 trillion in 10 years because it compounds. And at some point we're going to confront that. And I do think that economic growth is an important part of, of our way out. I also have some, you know, broader perspectives on how we can think about empowering a whole new generation of capitalists in the country. When you think about everyone's focused on what do you cut, what do you cut and how do you roll back entitlements? How about thinking about cultivating a generation of millionaires in this country who are so wealthy that they don't need access to the yesterday's entitlement state, but instead are a generation of millionaires that are independently successful on their own. And what's the key to getting there? You go back to two things, the education system, and then you go back to starting the process of asset compounding at a young age. And Albert Einstein called this the most powerful force in the universe, and he was right. The difference between the wealthy and everybody else is whether or not you own an asset that compounds. That's really the difference between, broadly speaking, the wealthy and everyone else.
- [36:29]
Miranda Devine
And so that's in real estate so far.
- [36:31]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I mean, well, real estate, equity. I mean, real estate. Real estate doesn't, I'm talking about broad. Broaden the base of stock market ownership in this country. You think about what the s and P500 has done in the last 20 years. Imagine if the full base of the United States of America participated in that. We'd be no longer fighting each other tooth and nail. We'd instead be united.
- [36:51]
Miranda Devine
How would you do that?
- [36:52]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, I mean, those are, that's, that's maybe a longer discussion for another time.
- [36:54]
Miranda Devine
Would you give people shares when born or.
- [36:57]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I think that I'll give you the most modest example where I'll start in Ohio.
- [37:01]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And I think that there's going to be more ambitious, ambitious ways that we implement this. But I'll give you the most modest example. Start with education, financial literacy education, starting at a young age. I mean, if you think, if you're, if you're a patriotic parent, if you're willing to die for your country, here's something easier you can do that would also do some good for your country. Actually teach your kids how to do math by eighth grade. Actually teach your kids to read by third grade. And put $10,000 in the S&P 500 as early as you can.
- [37:27]
Miranda Devine
Right.
- [37:27]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Just leave it there, don't touch it.
- [37:29]
Miranda Devine
Well, President Trump's kind of doing that with a baby bonus.
- [37:31]
Vivek Ramaswamy
So I think, I think, I think there's, there's. So just say, as a parent. Yeah. And $10,000 is nothing to sniff at. It's not saying that it's easy for every parent to come up with $10,000, but if you're able to save $10,000 and put it in the S&P 500 for your kid, you let that compound, they're going to be a millionaire by the time they're in their 50s, as long as nothing. Yeah. Well, what I would say government version of this, attached work requirements and so forth, but that's one of the most patriotic things you could do for your country as a parent right now is teach your kids how to do Math, algebra by eighth grade, read by third grade, put $10,000 away in the S&P 500 and set them up to be a millionaire. And to me, if we're able to then root for the economic policies that cause maximal S&P 500 compounding, but everyone's actually participating in it now, we're really talking about a new kind of capitalism in which everyone's participating in uncapped equity upside. And this is where I see the future of our new conservative movement going, or at least where it ought to go, is to revive capitalism, revive success, revive meritocracy, but to do it in a way that allows everyone to participate in the benefits of that gain rather than the us versus them ism of penalizing the people who succeed and rallying the people who are falling behind against the people who have succeeded. The us versus them stuff. Let that, let that be yesterday on the left, and frankly, even I would say on the right as well. Let's not go the direction of the left. Let's go the direction of how we actually empower people to achieve the things that capitalism empowers them to achieve. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states from around the world, Trey Youngst joining us from Tel Aviv, Israel to Washington. I'm Mike Emanuel. To your own backyard. If a story impacts you or your wallet, we're on it. It's the FOX News rundown. We give every story the deeper look it deserves with must listen interviews and smart analysis from the voices you can trust. Start your day with a FOX News rundown. Listen and follow now@foxnewsrundown.com or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
- [40:04]
Miranda Devine
Back to Doge we what happened with Elon and were you surprised in the end that he and Donald Trump fell out so badly?
- [40:12]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I'll leave that between the two of them. I'm not here a commentator on the relationship between those two guys.
- [40:16]
Miranda Devine
Okay, fair enough.
- [40:17]
Vivek Ramaswamy
But what I would say is your.
- [40:18]
Miranda Devine
Relationship with Elon, what was he like to work with? Because smart, obviously.
- [40:22]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I mean say he's a smart guy.
- [40:24]
Miranda Devine
Is obviously smart guy awake 24 7. Like what were his, you know, I.
- [40:28]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Mean it was it was, it was a good, interesting experience for a couple of months. And I think that we share a passion for fixing some of these foundational issues in the country. There's different ways to do it and there's, I could say, maybe no right or wrong way. Yeah, I had my vision of how to do it, and my perspective is I'll have the opportunity to lead from the front in Ohio, which is why I chose the path that I did. Because a lot of you think about what we did or we're looking to do a doge. I think I'm actually going to be able to even help implement in my home state. I'll give you one example, just to tease something I haven't really talked about elsewhere, but, but you're, you're, you're kind of pulling it out of me is you think about a lot of those regulations at the federal level. And one of the things we were looking at is how do you rescind a lot of those regulations that fell outside of the constitutional scope of Congress's response or was Congress's responsibility, but were never passed by Congress. So constitutionally are out of scope. They're actually unconstitutional regulations. So we were looking at all kinds of ways to rescind a lot of the regs that Supreme Court has said are actually unlawful. Well, whether or not that happens at.
- [41:30]
Miranda Devine
The federal level, can't you just ask them?
- [41:32]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, the president just asks. So my view is yes, right? My view is yes, but that a needs to happen. There's sometimes hoops that you go, I mean, you could like fishing regulations, every domain, fishing wildlife to EPA to Nuclear Regulatory Commission, that's killed nuclear energy production in the country. But there's hoops you have to jump through, or at least arguably. So the Administrative Procedures act, et cetera, that's a whole separate discussion. Discussion. One of the things you can do as a state is that you can actually sue the federal government if those regulations are impacting you. And guess what? My first two years as governor, if I'm successfully elected, will overlap with President Trump's last two years as US President, which is a friendly administration. We have a great relationship which allows us to be able to actually accomplish maybe things by states pushing for the federal action that's actually easier for the federal government to accomplish that way.
- [42:26]
Miranda Devine
Oh, I.
- [42:26]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Than to jump through the Administrative Procedures Act.
- [42:29]
Miranda Devine
So. So it's sort of a reverse. You're helping the federal government do what you wanted to do, except you're doing it via synergistically.
- [42:35]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Synergistically Exactly. So. So in that way.
- [42:37]
Miranda Devine
So free up energy or whatever it is.
- [42:40]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Absolutely, absolutely. Energy production, you think about natural gas, you can think about nuclear. You think about a lot of other areas, too. So that experience of helping with the transition, of being involved, my experience running for US President really opened up for me opportunities at the intersection of leading as a state, but setting an example for the country.
- [42:58]
Miranda Devine
Did you.
- [42:59]
Vivek Ramaswamy
That I'm excited to implement.
- [43:00]
Miranda Devine
Did you learn things?
- [43:01]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I learned an immense amount.
- [43:02]
Miranda Devine
Right?
- [43:02]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Oh, my gosh, yeah. Learned an immense amount. How could you not? Yeah, you're drinking from a fire hose.
- [43:07]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Vivek Ramaswamy
You're, you're seeing things that you didn't. You never would have imagined.
- [43:11]
Miranda Devine
What was the most useful thing you learned?
- [43:13]
Vivek Ramaswamy
You know, I think that the most useful thing that I learned is that in a business context. Right. You said a vision. You've got your own employee base who reports to you. It's hard enough to implement through a large enough rank and file, but at least, you know, you're implementing and you're in charge as a CEO in the federal government, there are so many, oh, it's like a wedding cake of overlapping different authorities that the good news is if you can move that titanic even by 2 degrees, the magnitude of effect that you have on the country, hopefully for the better, is huge. The difficult, the different part is it's really hard to move that Titanic more than just a couple of degrees. And I think President Trump in his second term, you look at his own learnings from the first term, I think is really, really a different kind of leader in understanding how to move those levers more effectively than a first time.
- [44:08]
Miranda Devine
President, draining someone who's been an entrepreneur, who's been successful in business to come into government.
- [44:13]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And I think that one of the things that, one of the most interesting things that might go down in the history books from President Trump's presidency, this is whether you agree with him or not, and I worked hard to get him elected, but this is irrespective of the policy content is. I think it's a cool model to have somebody be a president for four years, leave, have the chance to reflect on that experience, really formulate a vision for what you want to accomplish and then come back. It only happened once previously in, in US History. Right. With. With Cleveland, I guess. Right.
- [44:45]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [44:45]
Vivek Ramaswamy
But I do think that that's, it's one of the most interesting parts of watching President Trump's comeback is the ability to have taken those first term experiences and then learn from them. And for me, in a, in a, in A small way as well. Having participated for, you know, two and a half months during the transition, helping get Doge off the ground, learning so much that I would not have even known, just as a candidate running from the outside, but having a chance to internalize, you know, what works, what may not work. Right. What we thought might have worked, what doesn't. To be able to think about how do you implement this for the betterment of the country and then to be able to take office as a governor, I think is a cool experience in my own right. To be able to have this next year and a half, to really get started with a head start.
- [45:27]
Miranda Devine
What's happened to you, but particularly what happened to President Trump, was adversity in those four interim years has actually been a blessing.
- [45:36]
Vivek Ramaswamy
I think so, yeah. And it goes back to even our earlier discussions about lessons from, you know, my own upbringing in Southwest Ohio is. Adversity is a blessing.
- [45:45]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [45:46]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Hardship is not the same thing as victimhood. Hardship is an opportunity to really figure out who you really are and what matters to you and how you're going to achieve the things that you thought were impossible. I think a life without hardship is really not really a full human experience at all. And there's no such thing as a life without hardship. And so you might as well embrace it and learn from it and derive enrichment value from it.
- [46:10]
Miranda Devine
So rather than along those lines, you have two sons with your beautiful wife.
- [46:17]
Vivek Ramaswamy
And we're soon expecting a daughter early next year.
- [46:21]
Miranda Devine
That's great. So your children, I mean, you're a billionaire, I believe. How do you shield your children? I know this is something that a lot of billionaires worry about. Bill Gates, people like that, they decide they're not going to bequeath their fortune to their children. How do you stop your kids becoming spoiled brats?
- [46:40]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, we think about it a lot. I mean, they're. They're still young, right. So they're five and three. But my oldest son's getting to an age where, you know, once you're in kindergarten, you start to think about, you know, things a little bit, you know, a little bit differently. We didn't grow up with nannies, let alone security guards. And now we have both in our own. In our own household. Right. And so one of the things that we think about is that requires. It's kind of that earlier lesson you were talking about. When in doubt, when you're worried about something, work a little harder. In this case, work a little harder means put in the extra effort to make sure that you're there for every bedtime. Right now I'm campaigning across the state, been campaigning across the country. I make an effort to be home at least by bedtime every day. And that's, that's a pretty hard constraint.
- [47:25]
Miranda Devine
Yeah.
- [47:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
On my schedule, I'm blessed to own something that I didn't know people could own privately when I was growing up. A plane. Well, you know what, I don't apologize for it. I use that to be able to achieve the things I need to do across our state, across our country, and still be back home in time for bedtime for our two sons. And so in some ways we're able to use those same blessings.
- [47:44]
Miranda Devine
Yes.
- [47:45]
Vivek Ramaswamy
To be able to open up the kind of time and energy we're able to invest with our kids while doing these otherwise crazy things that I would have never imagined myself running for governor when I'm growing up in, you know, public schools in Cincinnati, Ohio, 35 years ago. But you think it's a way that we're able to put. I think it requires putting more effort in. That's what I would say.
- [48:06]
Miranda Devine
Imprinting your values on your kids.
- [48:08]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Not outsourcing, not, I think, making sure that you're not falling into the trap of outsourcing it. Because on the other hand, I want to be home for bedtime. I'm not able to pick them up from school every day. So nanny does pick the kids up from school because my wife's a surgeon as well. So on days where she can't do it, and that means we have to put the extra effort in to make sure that the stories, we read them at bedtime and then the moral of that story, the discussion we have around it before our 5 year old goes to bed. I think that is, it's always important, but I think it is doubly important for us when Apurva and I, you know, in some ways could take for granted the fact that we had a squarely middle class upbringing, that we weren't going to get into this warped world. I mean, you go into Manhattan and look at the circumstances that many kids grow up in here in billionaire wealth on 57th street and in New York City. But I think that for us it does require that extra effort because our kids may not normally face the same kind of scarcity or adversity that I did when I was growing up. But I don't think that that's automatically a curse either. It's just what you make of it. And we're going to try to be as conscious as we can to make sure that we're passing on those same values that we were raised in.
- [49:19]
Miranda Devine
Last question, the secrets of success, your success or other successful people that you've met.
- [49:25]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Be willing to take a risk and fail. And it turns out the failure may actually teach you more things than you thought. I think the fear of failure is crippling and I think the national creed of America, particularly in this country, I think it's more true in this country than any other country on earth. Be willing to experiment, be willing to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. And if you're willing to do that, you'll just. Your best case is you're going to achieve things you were thought to believe were impossible. And your worst case is you come out stronger for it as well. The other piece of advice I'd give people as leaders, or maybe as an entrepreneur is make sure you're surrounding yourself by people who actually challenge you. I think that that's something that I worry about in the, in the modern environment we live in. But you know, think about the businesses that I built. One of the, my first companies is not far from where we're sitting right now, right? I built a biotech company, led it as CEO for seven years. You know, it's now a multibillion dollar business on the Nasdaq and it's developed number of medicines that are FDA approved. One of them is a life saving therapy and kids, another one for women's health conditions that were previously ignored. It's done great things, but one of the things that made me successful at that company is that I surrounded my myself at the executive ranks of roent of people who challenged me on strategy of the company, on the decisions we were making through open debate and deliberation. It was the culture of the company ended up making better decisions. And in an ultimate irony, even when I stepped down from my job as CEO to write Woke Inc. To talk about, you know, the cultural challenges in corporate America and in our economy. The guy who was the best person for the CEO job happens to be a guy who is on the other side of me in politics. Right. His personal politics are different than mine. We still spar about it to this day as friends. But I think I was better off not so much in the political context, but even in the business context by hiring and surrounding myself with people who felt free enough to actually challenge me and challenge me hard. And as I entered this next phase, phase of my political career, I'm going to be sure to do the same thing. I don't want to lead Ohio with a bunch of yes men around me. I want people who are dedicated to the mission, but who are also equipped and empowered to challenge me and allow me to be the best leader I can be. And that would be one of my best pieces of advice for American success. Take risks. Surround yourself with people who challenge you. Good things tend to happen.
- [51:53]
Miranda Devine
Terrific. Thanks so much, Vivek.
- [51:55]
Vivek Ramaswamy
Thank you. Miranda. Great to see you.
- [51:58]
Miranda Devine
Thanks for watching Podforce One. We have new episodes every week, so please hit like and subscribe buttons so you don't miss them.