Salt-N-Pepa

Summary

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Pod Meets World – "Salt-N-Pepa"

Host: Danielle Fishel (with Will Friedle and Rider Strong absent this episode)
Guests: Salt (Cheryl James) & Pepa (Sandra Denton)
Date: August 5, 2026
Episode Focus: An in-depth, celebratory conversation with Salt-N-Pepa, covering their beginnings, musical breakthroughs, cultural impact, legendary career moments, and their role as trailblazers in hip hop and pop culture.

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Overview

Danielle Fishel hosts a special "Teen Beat" edition of the Pod Meets World podcast, welcoming iconic guests Salt-N-Pepa. The episode explores their humble start at Sears, rise to superstardom, famous collaborations, fashion innovation, cultural barriers they broke, and ongoing legacy. With warmth and humor, Salt-N-Pepa share stories from the dawn of hip hop to their 2023 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction—and look ahead to their co-headlining tour with TLC and En Vogue.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins: Sears, Queens, and Early Friendship

• Both Salt and Pepa worked as customer service reps at Sears ([04:54]).
• Pepa recalls breaking the ice by approaching Salt in the breakroom, noting their total opposite personalities—Pepa being loud and outgoing, Salt quiet and reserved ([05:53–06:43]).
  • Quote (Pepa, 06:27): “She was all punk rock. She had blonde hair and leopard safety pins in my ears. We were just the total opposite.”
• They discovered a mutual sense of humor and shared time at Queensborough College, skipping classes and bonding over games of spades ([07:11–07:45]).

2. The "Sears Crew": Surrounded by Future Stars

• The same Sears employed Play from Kid 'n Play and Martin Lawrence; all encouraged each other’s dreams ([08:00]).
  • Quote (Salt, 08:08): "Everyone had a dream, and we all talked about what we were gonna do, and we all did it."
• Early mutual support: Salt-N-Pepa’s first live shows featured Martin Lawrence opening with comedy. ([08:22])

3. “The Showstopper”: Accidental Debut

• Salt’s boyfriend Herbie "Love Bug" Azor had a class project that led to their first song, “The Showstopper.” Salt felt relief from school, while Pepa was more hesitant ([08:44–09:05]).
• The song made it onto the radio, leading to a pivotal “we made it!” moment when they first heard themselves broadcast ([10:13–11:12]).
  • Memorable moment (Pepa, 10:29): “I threw that car in park so fast, and I screamed… we was on the radio!”

4. Breakout Success: “Push It” and the First Platinum for Female Hip Hop

• The debut album included “Push It,” which became a worldwide hit—originally a B-side, elevated by a San Francisco DJ ([13:02]).
  • Quote (Salt, 13:31): “No payola, you know, no setup, no planning. Everybody just responded to that song.”
• Discussion of misinterpretations of the song’s meaning, and how DJs were the “algorithm” of their era ([12:41–13:50]).

5. Family Dynamics and Motivations

• Pepa’s Jamaican family initially hesitated over her music career, wanting her to stay in school; Salt described herself as "the rebel" ([14:57–15:37]).
• Musical upbringings: Pepa had reggae; Salt’s father was a doo-wopper, and both recall Saturdays spent cleaning to soul music ([16:04–16:43]).

6. Early Hip Hop Community and Friendships

• Reminiscences of the mid-80s hip hop scene—LL Cool J, Fresh Prince, Run-DMC, Fat Boys, Houdini ([18:17–19:09]).
• Salt-N-Pepa’s close-knit touring family included Heavy D, Kid ‘n Play—insulated group experiences on the road ([19:09–19:24]).

7. Breaking Barriers: “Let’s Talk About Sex” & Advocacy

• “Let’s Talk About Sex” emerged from a fearless desire to confront taboos, despite initial radio resistance ([19:46–20:04]).
  • Salt notes, “But the song is about being responsible, being aware, having the conversation. But most people don’t listen to lyrics, sadly.” ([19:56])
• The track became an anthem for sexual awareness and was adapted for AIDS education ([20:10–21:16]).

8. “Very Necessary,” “Shoop,” “Whatta Man,” and Turning Points in Industry Empowerment

• Recording their fourth album marked a shift: Salt-N-Pepa re-negotiated their contract and asserted more control, especially with “Shoop” ([25:09–26:37]).
  • Pepa shares how MC Hammer’s brother encouraged their financial assertiveness ([25:41]).
• “Shoop” and “Whatta Man” with En Vogue: Teaming up with R&B’s best—En Vogue agreed to collaborate after Salt-N-Pepa simply asked ([33:40–34:18]).

9. Pop Culture Longevity and Surprises

• “Shoop”’s unexpected resurgence thanks to movies like Deadpool and its multi-generational appeal ([27:14–29:03]).
• The most “unexpected” superfan? Ellen DeGeneres, who made the song a recurring bit on her show ([32:55]).
  • Quote (Salt, 32:59): “Ellen—really a good one. That’s right. And she crazy too.”

10. Behind the Music: Lyrics, Cheating, and Tupac on Set

• The infamous lyric in “Whatta Man” about faithful men—Salt confirms it meant “at least he does it in secret, which is pathetic to say” ([35:19]).
• Pepa and Salt recall fun about picking romantic video leads—like Tupac in the “Whatta Man” video and a story about a cake in the shape of a gun that Tupac gifted them ([36:59–38:43]).

11. Iconic Fashion: Eight Ball Jackets, DIY Style, and Going Mainstream

• Play from Kid ‘N Play designed their classic jackets; Dapper Dan constructed them; early on, Salt-N-Pepa sourced their own looks from Harlem shops and discount stores ([39:14–40:27]).
  • Salt: “Back in the day, we didn’t have stylists... We were just making it up as we went along.”
• The group wore Victoria’s Secret bras before it became cool, and were offered a campaign as a result ([42:00–42:20]).
• Their ripped-up jeans would inspire mass trends—and family jokes ([40:45–41:21]).

12. Industry Challenges: The Masters Fight

• Discussion of Salt-N-Pepa’s ongoing battle to reclaim their master recordings; the impact of greed in the industry leading to the removal of their music from platforms ([44:05–44:58]).
  • Salt: “It’s been long. It’s been hard, it’s been expensive. But the greed in this industry is so ridiculously shameful after you’ve exploited someone’s music for 40 years…” ([44:11])
• The episode raises awareness for younger artists about protecting their rights and exercising the 35-year rule ([44:58]).

13. Signature Performances and Activism

• Their televised Grammy performance and award win, following a boycott to protest the rap category not being shown live, is a career highlight and a victory for hip hop inclusion ([46:05–47:12]).
• Woodstock’s main stage show stands out as another memorable peak ([47:12–47:41]).

14. The It’s Iconic Tour: 90s Avengers Assemble

• Salt-N-Pepa discuss the upcoming co-headlining tour with TLC and En Vogue, emphasizing nostalgia and celebration of 90s girl power ([48:02–49:41]).
  • Danielle: “This is my 90s hip hop and R&B Avengers.”
  • Salt: “That’s how we feel! … Now we’ve all grown up together so it’s more of like a us thing. We’re all just gonna go back to the time when we first heard Waterfalls, Shoop…”
• The groups are rehearsing “integrated” shows and promise fans a massive, once-in-a-lifetime experience ([48:33]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Opposites Attracting:
  • Salt (06:43): "That opposite attract thing is a real thing."
• On First Radio Play:
  • Pepa (10:55): “We was like, we on the radio!... That’s like the highlight of any artist’s career for the most part, at that time.”
• On “Push It”’s Meaning:
  • Salt (12:37): “At least that’s what we thought. People do not believe that… It was up for interpretation.”
• On “Let’s Talk About Sex”:
  • Salt (19:56): "But the song is about being responsible, being aware, having the conversation. But most people don't listen to lyrics, sadly."
• On Industry Exploitation:
  • Salt (44:11): “It’s been long. It’s been hard, it’s been expensive. But the greed in this industry is so ridiculously shameful…”
• On Longevity and Legacy:
  • Salt (29:04): “You keep waiting for that day… The calls we get is constant, crazy, right?”
• On Tour:
  • Salt (48:04): “Now we’ve all grown up together so it’s more of like a us thing…”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Discussion | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 04:54 | Salt-N-Pepa’s origins at Sears, first conversations | | 06:07 | Early contrast—Punk rock meets loudmouth flair | | 10:13 | “The Showstopper” on the radio, breakthrough moment | | 12:10 | “Push It” breaks as a B-side, legacy discussion | | 14:57 | Family attitudes and musical upbringings | | 18:17 | 80s hip hop community, touring with legends | | 19:46 | “Let’s Talk About Sex” and activism | | 25:09 | Asserting contract rights on "Very Necessary" album | | 32:55 | Ellen DeGeneres—unexpected superfan | | 35:07 | "Whatta Man" lyric clarification | | 36:59 | Tupac on music video set, gifts, and stories | | 39:14 | Fashion legacy: Eight ball jackets, ripped jeans | | 44:05 | Fight for master recordings, advice to new artists | | 46:05 | Grammy performance/award—boycotting for change | | 47:12 | Woodstock performance highlight | | 48:02 | Upcoming tour with TLC & En Vogue |

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Highlights: Fun & Heartfelt

• The group’s sheer delight at lifelong camaraderie and mutual “fangirling” between hosts and guests ([14:29–14:46]).
• Lighthearted banter about who’s really following the rules about dating dancers ([49:50–50:39]).
• Fashion chat: The origin of the term BOGO, and Salt-N-Pepa’s accidental pre-influencer status ([40:03]).

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Conclusion

This episode offers a vibrant, firsthand account of Salt-N-Pepa’s four-decade journey. With Danielle Fishel’s gleeful fandom and the duo’s infectious chemistry, listeners are treated to behind-the-scenes stories, career lessons, and reflections both joyous and serious. The group’s groundbreaking influence—on the music industry, pop culture, and generations of women—shines through, as does their ongoing resolve in battles for ownership and legacy. If you’ve ever danced to “Push It,” belted “Shoop,” or been inspired by women changing the world—this episode is essential listening.

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Transcript

[Salt]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Salt]

Opsicle I love my phone but not my carrier.

[Commercial Announcer]

What do I do?

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, there are 250 reasons to join T Mobile. Like what? You can keep your phone and your number and T Mobile helps pay it off up to $800 per line.

[Salt]

So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yep.

[Danielle Fishel]

Plus your plan price stays the same for 5 years on experience plans.

[Salt]

Nice.

[Danielle Fishel]

Find your reason@t mobile.

[Commercial Announcer]

Via virtual prebate guard card typically takes 15 days after rebate submission price guarantee on talk text and 5G data exclusions

[Pepa]

like taxes and fees apply.

[Commercial Announcer]

Ice Cube's big three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. The two best teams go head to head as coach Nancy Lieberman and Greg Monroe's Dallas Power take on the 1 seed Chicago Triplets led by coach Dr. J and captain Montrez Harrow. Then coach Gary Payton and the Boston Ball Hogs battle Nassir Corps and the Detroit Amps in a must win game for Boston. The game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday, August 9th on CBS at 1pm p.m Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts why

[Danielle Fishel]

did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Commercial Announcer]

Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.

[Pepa]

Give me money for cigarettes I'll never leave your cookie bed. I stay the night and one night be came two or three years. The kids are not alright but that's okay caus

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi everybody and welcome back to Teen Beat, a podcast in the diversified portfolio we call the Danielle Fishel Shows. Teen Beat is where I sit with interesting people who have done interesting things to investigate their past. Like I'm some sort of talkie private eye Because I know that by remembering yesterday, we get ready for today. Put that on a greeting card, baby. Sure, I spent my entire adolescence on TV for the world to see. But not everyone had a hair and makeup team before a learner's permit. I see it this way. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. The term legends is thrown around quite a bit in 2026. In my opinion, a bit too much when it comes to handing out this title of culture immortality. I think people should be a little pickier. You need decades of relevancy, a past filled with revol revolutionary achievements, a history of opening doors for others who may not have had the chance without you, and a bunch of bops that will find their way onto workout playlists for the next 100 years. So make no mistake about it, my guests this week are legends. They taught us to push it, to express ourselves and to talk about sex. They were the first ever female rap act to go gold and platinum. And alongside Queen Latifah were the first to win a barrier breaking Grammy on a night that changed the event forever. They have sold more than 15 million records worldwide and just last year were inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. And now they are going out on the road to co headline the it's iconic tour alongside TLC with special guests en vogue. Be still my 90s R&B heart. It's my absolute honor to welcome to the podcast the first ladies of rap, Salt n Pepa. Ladies, this is such an honor to be here with you. Thank you so much for sitting down with me. Thank you. I'm honestly starstruck and I don't get starstruck very often but I feel it now. I love that your legendary hip hop career, this game changing hall of fame rap group all started at a Sears.

[Pepa]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

You both worked there as customer service reps. So first I must know what are the worst phone calls you got while there?

[Salt]

The hang ups. Hello, Cheryl James calling from Sears. Click.

[Pepa]

Because. Because you have to reach a quota so it's very important to keep them on.

[Salt]

Very depressing. Being a is so depressed. It was so depressing. They had like charts like on display for everyone to see and then graphs. Right. So if you made a lot of sales, your graph was up to here. And me and Pepsi grass is always,

[Pepa]

we're always being called in.

[Salt]

We would call each other and then the supervisor walked by and then we're like, yes, that would be $28 a month. Just faking child, just faking it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Talking about your Weekend.

[Pepa]

Exactly. Oh, my gosh.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so who broke the ice? Who started talking to the other one first?

[Pepa]

Me.

[Salt]

You did.

[Pepa]

I started talking to her because I used to see her in the lunchroom and I was, you know, a bit of a loud mout. And I used to be loud, loud, loud. And I used to always see her, you know, crossing the lunchroom corner and just.

[Salt]

I was quiet, quiet, quiet.

[Pepa]

Very quiet. She ain't involved with nothing.

[Salt]

Who is she?

[Pepa]

What's her story?

[Danielle Fishel]

Why she.

[Pepa]

Tell me. Yes.

[Salt]

My friends always adopt me.

[Pepa]

And I came over wanting to know, like, this is a good old tea. Like, you know, you see this in a movie. We did a movie, but I came over, like, basic. What's your deal?

[Salt]

Yeah, tell me the story. She was all punk rock. I was like, so punk rock. She had blonde hair and leopard safety

[Pepa]

pins in my ears.

[Salt]

We were just the total opposite.

[Pepa]

Total.

[Salt]

So that opposite attract thing is a real thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

So when she came over and said, like, what's the deal? What's your story? Did you.

[Salt]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

You were like.

[Salt]

I was fascinated. Yeah. Because people don't usually, like, cross my. My quiet barrier. Right. And she's just like, who are you? Are you over here by yourself not talking to anybody?

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, you guys were coincidentally also both nursing students at the same school, too. But you met at Sears, not at school.

[Salt]

Yeah, we weren't nursing students at school.

[Pepa]

College.

[Salt]

But we did meet at college and

[Pepa]

just taking the courses together.

[Danielle Fishel]

The courses together.

[Salt]

Liberal arts was, you know, when you don't know what you want to do. That was me. And we also didn't go to class. Well, I didn't go to class.

[Pepa]

I'm Jamaican. I had to go to class.

[Salt]

We used to play spades in the lunchroom at Queensborough College. Yeah. So we just started. Like, the thing about our friendship is our sense of humor. Like, you know when you have a friend that you just have this warped sense of humor with.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally.

[Salt]

And you just lose your mind laughing and nobody else in the room gets to joke.

[Pepa]

You have to be there.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right?

[Pepa]

That. Exactly.

[Salt]

That would be us.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is nice to feel seen on a whole other level. Like, no one else would be laughing at this, but we get it.

[Salt]

Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this Sears also had Play from Kid and Play and Martin Lawrence. This is the greatest Sears I've ever heard of.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Salt]

It was Kid and Play at series and Martin Lawrence. Martin Lawrence, all of us, and our producer, Herbie. Yeah. And everyone had a dream, and we all talked about what we were gonna do, and we all did it.

[Danielle Fishel]

And you all did it.

[Pepa]

We always said, whoever makes it first will, you know, help out the other one. So we got put on first. And our first shows, we had Martin Lawrence open up, opening for us to do his comedy. So we was bringing hip hop and comedy before it's time.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys were trailblazers in every capacity.

[Salt]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, we know that it was Herbie Love Bugs, Salt's boyfriend, who had a school project that first got you to record the Showstopper, your first ever song.

[Salt]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did either of you have to be convinced? Was it like, all right, if we have to help you out for your first song? No.

[Salt]

Yeah. No. I was failing miserably in school. I was like, oh, this is it for me.

[Pepa]

This is my chance.

[Salt]

This is what I want to do.

[Pepa]

Maybe a little different. I did not think I was going to do that at all. Like, at all, at all, at all. You could have told me I was going to rap. Like, you know, it's a. We knew it, we played with it, but I didn't not to make a record with it, like, so I wasn't thinking that. And so I had a more difficult time in the beginning with it, you know, And I loved the, the, the, the, the. The hard work, like the, the what I went through, the hours in the studio, the grind like this is. And I was still going to college. Shells like, you gotta quit because, you know, girl, we made it. What you doing in there? What you doing?

[Salt]

We gotta get on the road.

[Danielle Fishel]

You mentioned already she's Jamaican. She had family,

[Commercial Announcer]

you know.

[Salt]

That's right. Two, three jobs.

[Pepa]

Y.

[Danielle Fishel]

So this school project starts getting radio play from one of the greatest to ever do it, DJ Marley Marle. Do you remember the first time you heard it on the air?

[Salt]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

Best moment ever.

[Danielle Fishel]

Tell me everything about it.

[Pepa]

I was driving in my Datsun 210. It has a hole in the right side, passenger side. So Cheryl has this when it's raining in the puddle. Feet up, feet up. Get your purse off the floor. Get your purse off the floor.

[Commercial Announcer]

Ready today.

[Pepa]

But driving on, you know, our bureau and Queen. And then we've been waiting, like, you know, rap music wasn't even played by an hour on Saturdays. And everyone's waiting. And then at one point, we just kind of gave up, you know, like, are they gonna play? And we was just casually driving that day. And then it came on the radio and I was driving. I threw that car in park, like, so fast, and I screamed. And we was.

[Salt]

We was like, we on the radio. We're on the radio.

[Pepa]

Jumping out the car.

[Salt]

She jumped out. I was like, get back.

[Pepa]

We was in front of a liquor store. They were like.

[Salt]

I'm like, they don't care. I wanted to hear the songs.

[Pepa]

Like, could you get in the car

[Salt]

so we could actually listen to the song? We're on the radio. Let's enjoy it. But that's. That's, like the highlight, I feel like, of any artist's career for the most part, at that time. Right. Because it's something about the first time, you know, your voice is going out through the airwaves after you put in all that hard work and you hustled, and now somebody's actually playing your record on the radio. Unmatched Rock and Roll hall of Fame, Grammys star on the Walk of Fame. I could go on and on. But that moment, we only got two shoulders. Cheryl four.

[Pepa]

But I like that.

[Commercial Announcer]

Keep it going.

[Pepa]

That's a good one.

[Danielle Fishel]

From there, buzz starts circulating. You drop out of nursing school and finally make the decision. You get a record deal, which turns out you end up having your debut

[Pepa]

album, Hot, Cool and Asian, Love the

[Salt]

Tea,

[Danielle Fishel]

making you the first female rap group to receive both gold and platinum certification, led by the single Push It. What percentage of people do you think know that that song is about dancing?

[Pepa]

Oh, I think only me. I think only me. And me.

[Salt]

At least that's what we thought. For real?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt]

People do not believe that. They, like, Come On, Girls, y' all knew what that song is about. It was up for interpretation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Salt]

Because some people thought it was saying

[Pepa]

P U, S. That's right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Salt]

Real good.

[Pepa]

Yes.

[Salt]

And we definitely was not saying. The producer.

[Pepa]

We had me.

[Salt]

If he.

[Pepa]

His intention was for that, it would have been that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Right.

[Pepa]

He would have. It would have been very clear.

[Salt]

It.

[Pepa]

It was so organic how everything from the video to the. The song, how it picked up the momentum. Because that wasn't even the single that was being promoted. It was a B side to a song, tramp that we were actually. Which is the A side. So, you know, DJ flipped it. So everything. It's just.

[Salt]

Yeah. A DJ in San Francisco. I hate that. I don't remember his name. He passed away. We gotta Google his name. But he just started playing the record and it just took off like.

[Pepa]

Right.

[Salt]

No payola, you know, no setup, no planning. Everybody just responded to that song. And we were on tour, actually, and Herbie called us, and he was like, do Push it in your next set. We, like, push it like what? And we performed it, and the crowd.

[Pepa]

That's the video. That is the video performance. Was the video.

[Danielle Fishel]

Funny. It's like radio back then was really the. The algorithm of its time.

[Salt]

It's like Sway was just saying.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, you can't predict. Yeah, you can get talented people all in a room listening to the same album. And the one that's going to hit with the audience, sometimes you just can't put your finger on.

[Salt]

And as an artist, artists usually know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Salt]

Like, we'll have a favorite song.

[Pepa]

Right.

[Salt]

Even though Shoop is our favorite song and it was a hit. But they'll. An artist will pick something obscure, and then the audience is so close to you. So close to you. Exactly. My son loves you, by the way.

[Pepa]

I'm just staring at you like. I just wanted to say that we look weird, too.

[Salt]

Both of us.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

Like the biggest front of her.

[Pepa]

I was just telling Queen and Mona,

[Salt]

like, I can't wait to tell him. I needed to get that out. You got your fan moment out. We got our fan moment out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Take a picture together.

[Pepa]

Yes, we have.

[Danielle Fishel]

So what do your families think about this now becoming your job? Did they think you were just going to end up back at nursing school, or did they believe in it?

[Pepa]

Yeah, my family had a little hard time in the beginning, and I was like, no, this is it. This is good. I think this is going to go. This is going to go, you know, and it was like, okay, I'll support you. And I'm grown still, but we always have to still get permissions with each other in this, like, family.

[Salt]

That's a Jamaican thing again.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

She's so old.

[Danielle Fishel]

I just got. I hadn't got my first tattoo. I had to clear it with my mom.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wow.

[Salt]

Mary at what age?

[Danielle Fishel]

45?

[Salt]

No.

[Pepa]

Yeah, 45.

[Danielle Fishel]

I just. I just was like, I. You can be okay. She was like, I don't really like tattoos, but I'm okay with it.

[Salt]

That's me and my daughter. But I was. I'm. I'm the rebel. I'm the. Nobody gonna tell me what to do.

[Pepa]

You listen to your.

[Salt]

She used to listen to her older sisters. I'd be like, you listen to your sisters. Those are your sisters. It's not your mother, exactly. So my parents were like, let her do her thing. Cause you know, she gonna do it anyway. We don't know what she doing, and we don't understand it, but okay, girl,

[Danielle Fishel]

love her, so go for it.

[Pepa]

Right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Were you guys raised in musical homes? What did you listen to growing up?

[Salt]

A lot of Motown, Al Green, lot

[Pepa]

of reggae music, but a lot of that old soul. Soul music.

[Salt]

All the soul music.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

And my dad used to be a doo whopper. He was like one of those, like he had a group that used to be on the corner. So he always played a lot of jazz and you know, Saturday morning cleaning. Did you do that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Turn on the music. Everybody together. We're in this house in order.

[Salt]

Yes. So we had music playing on the hi fi before it was wi fi every Saturday. And you know, you're not. You're absorbing that energy and you don't know that it's turntable.

[Pepa]

You're like,

[Salt]

the vinyl is coming back, honey. Vinyl is making a comeback. People like, yeah, funny that like we

[Danielle Fishel]

attach the music is. It brings so much joy into our lives. Specifically from those moments where you're actually doing it to distract from a chore you don't want to do. Those always end up being our favorite memories as time as a family. It's like you don't. Similar to the way you don't get to pick the algorithm what's going to work. You don't get to pick the core memories. They're all. They're not the things you think. They're not the big over the top extravaganzas. There's the moments of listening to music, cleaning around, cleaning your house on a Saturday.

[Salt]

Those are bonding. I wish I would have raised my kids to clean on Saturdays. Good lord.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. We do Sunday cleaning.

[Salt]

You do? That's such a great mom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Saturdays are. We're, you know, we're in at sports, so we got Saturday games and Saturday this and on Sunday it's like we're going to hang out at the house. We're going to get this place all spiffy for our week.

[Salt]

Such a good thing to teach your kids. We had. We traveled a lot, so we had nannies and housekeepers and they never learned anything about cleaning

[Pepa]

skill at the time. They're like you told us, just feel like she throws her jacket on the

[Salt]

floor, she's not thinking and then you can't blame them.

[Pepa]

I got called in for things like that.

[Salt]

It's a real thing, cuz it's somebody picking up after.

[Pepa]

Right. And that's when you pay attention. I go, wow, I can see where that's a problem for the kid.

[Salt]

Yeah, cuz you're on the road. So anyway, that's a whole another.

[Pepa]

We got a whole separate podcast. Right? Four kids. No, no, no.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your whole class of mid-80s rappers is full of legends. LL Cool J, K1, Fresh Prince, Cool Modi, obviously a Boys Club. But were you making friends and hanging out with other rappers at the time?

[Salt]

I was, yeah.

[Pepa]

Because when I got a. You know, I was. Ended up going with Marky D from the Fat Boys.

[Salt]

Yes.

[Pepa]

So he was my industry, and I was new in the. In the. In. In the industry then, and so I'm looking up to him. He's already done a movie then and.

[Salt]

Right.

[Pepa]

And he's. You know, Run DMC and Houdini, we were on their tour. So I'm hanging with Houdini. He taking. So I'm like, oh, shoot, that's Odini. So I. I got to hang for. For me, then that was like, wow. Those times, the run DMCs, ll and yeah, yeah.

[Salt]

We also had, like, a family within our own camp.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

Like, we came up with Heavy D and the boys and Kid and Play. Right. And those were like our boys, our family. We were a little bit insulated here. The tour bus, sharing tour buses.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your little bubble.

[Salt]

Yeah, that's fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to jump into your third album, Black's Magic, which includes let's Talk About Sex. Nowadays, it would be hard pressed to find a female rapper who doesn't talk about sex, but back then, this was unheard of. Did anyone push back at the fearlessness of it?

[Salt]

Oh, yeah.

[Pepa]

Oh, yeah. That's what it was supposed to do.

[Salt]

Yeah, I know they ain't gonna play this on the radio. That's a little conversation we had in the beginning of the song, knowing that it would be something.

[Pepa]

Some pushback.

[Salt]

But the song is about being responsible, being aware, having the conversation. But most people don't listen to lyrics, sadly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Salt]

And so we've had parents come up to us and say, oh, we thought you were great role models. And. And we're like, did you listen?

[Pepa]

Did you listen?

[Salt]

You know, so it actually took on a life of its own also. Eventually it became like the anthem for sexual awareness classes. In college, we turned let's Talk About Sex. Sex called let's Talk about aids. Peter Jennings played it on his special. And so Salt and Pepper, kind of like at a time when it wasn't popular to be an advocate for HIV and AIDS awareness. We were outside talking about it because we were actually like, man, this is serious.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

And there's degrees of separation in the industry, and I wanted to know about this.

[Pepa]

The do's and the don'ts.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Salt]

I used to talk to my little sister. I'll be like, girl, don't be out here messing around. You got to make sure he wrapped that thing up. So yeah, we kind of led the charge in that. And then a lot of organizations like Life Beat, what what is a Gay Men's Health Crisis? Like we just became their baby, you know, and they just adopted us to do all the stuff.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, yeah, because there was so much fear mongering at the time and not a lot of direct education.

[Salt]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so to be able to put direct education in a song that people can just mouth along to and know the words, it's like you're so ahead of your time in so many different ways.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Salt]

Instagram Opsicle this summer there are 250

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[Salt]

Trip booked and switching to T mobile Help make it happen with experience beyond

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[Pepa]

And honestly that hundred dollars back I'm

[Commercial Announcer]

putting it towards the zipline now.

That's how you do summer.

[Salt]

Exactly.

[Commercial Announcer]

Best switch I ever made.

This is just one reason to join Team Mo Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons. Find yours savings based on the value

[Pepa]

of benefits included with experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic

[Salt]

and DashPass on us.

[Commercial Announcer]

Benefits may require activation. See plan for details. Get 100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported, no cash access and expires in six months.

[Pepa]

Issued by Sunrise Banks and a member FDIC.

[Commercial Announcer]

Allow eight weeks Ice Cube's Big Three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. The two best teams go Head to as coach Nancy Lieberman and Greg Monroe's Dallas Power take on the 1 seed Chicago Triplets led by coach Dr. J and captain Montrez Harrow. Then coach Gary Payton and the Boston Ball Hogs battle Nassir Corps and the Detroit Amps in a must win game for Boston. The game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday, August 9th on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I

[Salt]

I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

[Commercial Announcer]

There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well then the next album, 1993's Very Necessary just has hit after hit after hit after hit. It has sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. You won a Grammy sharing the honor of first female rap act to win the award with Queen Latifah. Did it feel special when you were recording it?

[Pepa]

I have to say it felt amazing because of the timing of that album. We were just waking up like in terms of like trying to figure out our rights and things like that. We should be getting more. We're doing so much. We're selling with this and that and just out of, you know, it's like I said Tommy was MC Hammer's brother because at the time they said this is how much you get. Only Michael Jackson could get this kind of points. Like we're like, oh, okay. And you just pay Michael Jackson so we don't talk about it. Right? Right. That's it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure.

[Pepa]

So. And I never forget MC Hammer brother Lewis Perel discussing and I was telling him the points we get and what we selling. He was like, you this, this, this, this. Go back and tell him you, you need this. And I said, no, they're going to say this. He said, you tell them you need this. It don't take no financer. And I was like, okay and talk to Saul. And we went in like this, this, you know, this is what we're going

[Salt]

to Scared little puppy.

[Pepa]

Yes. It's not fair.

[Salt]

And we're standing our ground, right?

[Pepa]

And then I had the song came up with shoot. Right. I had just me. So I'm like, I'm the dog, dog, dog. We cannot put Peppa Song first on. You know, the labels was calling her be like what's this? You Know, like, no, we can't do that. But, you know, it ended up being undeniable. But people were like, yo, this is a song. This is a single. Let's go. You know, Salt Roll, I wrote. And we was like, let's go. I produced it. And we was like, we did it all the above. We changed our deal at that moment.

[Salt]

Got a better deal.

[Pepa]

That song for us, our first single, Not Herbie, Salt and Pepper. And we broke the album. It takes, you know, makes the temperature that, you know, and sets the temperature for the album.

[Salt]

Focus track.

[Pepa]

Yeah, the focus track. Right. And it was just so, like, wow, that timing. So that's all right.

[Salt]

Yeah. It's such a fun song to perform, too. And that album is iconic, for sure. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Also, I think all white people are legally obligated to know every word to it.

[Salt]

And y' all do.

[Pepa]

We do.

[Salt]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

We will to it any chance we get. It's another. It's a reimagining of the hip hop trope since it celebrates women flipping some of those sexist traditions and subverting the male gaze. Are you shocked at all by the longevity of it? A whole new generation has fallen in love with it now, thanks to Deadpool. I mean, you've got kids that now hearing it and knowing all the words, like, does. Is that surprising to you at all? Or does it just feel like it all makes sense because of that timing since the way it felt from the beginning?

[Pepa]

I just think these things happen to us without any big machine behind us. I mean, because we go through it, like, we get, you know, pushback a lot.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

And we just kept. Some people will show up like, okay, we doing it. We keep going. We're pushing it. Pushing it. And so when it happens for us, it's like, thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Right, right.

[Salt]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Such a nice feeling.

[Salt]

It makes sense to me.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

Like, from the beginning, it kind of just took off. It's like, I don't. Was just beyond music. It was. It was something I feel like the friendship, you know, the connection. Like, we have this, like, crazy connection. The chemistry, you know, like, everything just lined up pretty much. And it never stopped. Like, never stopped. You know what I mean?

[Pepa]

Never.

[Salt]

Even now, like, to your point, all these years later, like, they call us for, like, the biggest things without any. Any, like you said big machine. It's just so organic, you know, So I kind of expected it. What I am surprised, though, about is that the timing in my mind at a certain age, you know, like, it's. You did your thing okay, now sit down. You know the calls we get is constant crazy, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

No rest for you.

[Salt]

You keep waiting for that day. She said, you keep waiting for that day.

[Danielle Fishel]

You keep thinking, well, maybe next year I'll get to take a nap.

[Pepa]

No, no.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh no.

[Salt]

Not the rock and roll affair.

[Pepa]

So I thought she was going to be in the house on a in a cottage somewhere.

[Salt]

Now they're really going to start calling us forever.

[Pepa]

Send the the ship out.

[Salt]

Go get her off that island.

[Pepa]

Bring her back.

[Danielle Fishel]

She thinks she is taking a rest.

[Pepa]

I.

[Commercial Announcer]

The public breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. After decades together, Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pops are going their separate ways and the drama is heating up. It started with Cherry Popsicle's shocking decision to strike out on her own. But after years of sharing freezer space, Orange and Gray Popsicle weren't about to let Cherry Popsicle steal the spotlight. Next. Now the Flavor feud is officially on. Cherry Popsicle wants the spotlight all to herself. But Orange and Grape Popsicle aren't giving it up without a fight. All summer long, fans will decide which flavor deserves the crown and the chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick a side make your voice heard and let the feud begin. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then shout out your favorite on Social. And don't forget to follow the flavorfew drama all summer long on Instagram Opsicle

this summer there are 250 reasons to join T Mobile Girls.

[Salt]

Trip booked and switching to T Mobile

[Pepa]

Help make it happen with experience beyond

[Commercial Announcer]

switch and get $100 back plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That's $750 in your first year guaranteed.

[Pepa]

And honestly that hundred dollars back I'm

[Commercial Announcer]

putting it towards the zipline now.

That's how you do summer.

[Salt]

Exactly.

[Commercial Announcer]

Best switch I ever made.

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons finding yours Savings

[Pepa]

based on the value of benefits included

[Commercial Announcer]

with experience beyond like entertainment and one

[Pepa]

year of AAA Classic and DashPass on

[Salt]

US benefits may require activation.

[Commercial Announcer]

See plan for details. Get $100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with

[Danielle Fishel]

eligible ported, no cash access and expires

[Commercial Announcer]

in six months issued by Sunrise Banks

[Pepa]

and a member FDIC.

[Salt]

Allow eight weeks.

[Commercial Announcer]

Ice Cube's Big Three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. The two best teams go head to head as coach Nancy League Lieberman and Greg Monroe's Dallas Power take on the 1 seed Chicago Triplets led by coach Dr. J and captain Montrez Harrow. Then coach Gary Payton and the Boston ball hogs battle Nassir Corps and the Detroit Amps in a must win game for Boston. The game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday, August 9th on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I

[Salt]

I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

[Commercial Announcer]

There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who is the craziest person you've ever met? Who knows every word to shoop.

[Salt]

Craziest person we've ever met.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like another, another famous person that Ellen.

[Salt]

Oh, Ellen. Ellen. Really a good one. That's right. And she crazy too.

[Pepa]

She loves.

[Salt]

We used to get a licensing check from the Ellen DeGeneres Show.

[Pepa]

Like clock all her guests have to sing it. That's amazing. She like, shoot. She always made someone have to rap it with her.

[Salt]

Yes, that is her song.

[Pepa]

Yes, that was her song.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, that song would have been enough. But then the second single is what a Man, another immortal track. How did you connect with En Vogue for that one? Okay, here it goes.

[Pepa]

Here it goes. So of course, you know, Herbie, you know we all came up with this song. Herbie PRODUCER Yes. But this was the part of. I never forget. We were in the studio. I think we was Al Macha.

[Salt]

This is.

[Pepa]

Yes, we were like in the studio. Something her beat. Studio. But anyway, the fact that we was trying to see who could sing this hook. Who could sing this hook. And then I just sat there and thought of invoke like.

[Salt]

So I said, let's get.

[Pepa]

Let's try in. We always like, we can't get no in. We can't get no in. I was like, let's just try. Let's see if imog would sing it. And they end up saying, yes, yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

See? Shoot for the stars.

[Pepa]

Shoot. And. And we was like, they said yes. And it was, it was.

[Salt]

Funny thing is we were just as famous as them. That's what artists are like that they're like, you think they'll do it?

[Danielle Fishel]

I. I get that all. We all have a little bit of imposter syndrome.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Salt]

Yes. They were honored. They were honored. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is so good.

[Pepa]

And the video was amaz when we had to put that video together.

[Danielle Fishel]

Huh?

[Pepa]

That was fun.

[Salt]

Chef's kiss. Girl power to the fullest.

[Pepa]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I have two specific questions about this song. First, I found two different writers with two varying opinions, and I want you to give the final word on it. The lyric is, although most men are hoes, he flows on the down low. Cuz I never heard about him with another girl. Does that mean he is faithful or does it mean that he's just really good at keeping it quiet and you appreciate that.

[Pepa]

It's so funny. You pick that up.

[Commercial Announcer]

Out.

[Pepa]

I picked that lyric out and I

[Salt]

was like, someone's gonna keep his hoeing under wraps. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

All right. There it is.

[Pepa]

Final word.

[Danielle Fishel]

I. I appreciate that.

[Salt]

At least. At least he does it in secret, which is pathetic to say, but you

[Pepa]

don't want to know the disrespect.

[Salt]

You've always said that. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's.

[Pepa]

Yeah. If you gonna go to McDonald's, better not be in my McDonald's now time. You better go. Two hours old. Over.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. Also, anytime somebody. There's a cheating scandal in the news, and we think, okay, you know what? Don't judge people who decide to stay. So much of it is. How blatant was it?

[Salt]

That's right. How comfortable were you disrespectful. Was she in my bed?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. How comfortable were you disrespecting me for all to see?

[Salt]

She better not be in my house. I know one thing.

[Pepa]

Oh, I've had my camera. Camera already?

[Salt]

Yeah, baby.

[Pepa]

How do they. We got cameras. Don't you know?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

Why would they forget that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Good luck trying to get. I mean, now people just take people to concerts.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

And they're on the Tron.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Salt]

Crazy.

[Pepa]

That's craziness.

[Salt]

It's a rap for cheaters. Either tell the truth or don't cheat. You know what I mean? Cuz, I mean, you're gonna get court

[Pepa]

someone that condones it with you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly. Someone who says, you know what? I don't want you rubbing it in

[Pepa]

my face, but as long as give me the opportunity.

[Danielle Fishel]

It goes both ways.

[Pepa]

Yes, if you want.

[Danielle Fishel]

If. Exactly.

[Pepa]

If you'd want that, you might not even want to do that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure. I mean, I definitely wouldn't want to, but I would also not want him to know that I wouldn't want to.

[Pepa]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Cuz I want.

[Pepa]

I want yeah, yeah. We have to play the game.

[Salt]

So many games, right?

[Pepa]

It's so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, just sounds like games. Okay, my second question. The music video featured Tupac, and I just want to hear what that day was like and what you remember from.

[Pepa]

Look at those soft smiling. That's how far she got.

[Danielle Fishel]

Were you friends with him? It's not like he was a big cameo guy.

[Salt]

Yeah, actually, Pep and Tretch were together. Tretch of Naughty By Nature, and Tretch was friends with Tupac, so he was in close proximity with us. Kind of had some conversations with him. I knew not to mess with Tupac, though. You know what I mean? And he was very respectful. But when they said, said, who's your leading man gonna be? I was like, I get to roll around the bed with Tupac.

[Pepa]

Oh, my God. Girls do it just like men when they pick those scenes. We'd be sitting there like, who could we get?

[Salt]

Oh, yeah, I was.

[Pepa]

Had a boy. I was with somebody, so I ain't get to go through the Rolodex for you, honey. Right.

[Salt]

So I did that scene with him, and my toes were literally curling. It was a nice scene, too. It was so.

[Pepa]

It was beautiful.

[Salt]

I was like. Because everybody was enamored with him. That was a given.

[Pepa]

Tell about our gift from him with the gun.

[Salt]

But the father of my child was actually in the room, and I had to kick him out. I was like, I can't do this with you standing here. I have to make a good video.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pepa]

You know, I have to be able

[Salt]

to act like I'm enjoying this. Yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

You know what I'm saying?

[Pepa]

I have to be able to act like I'm enjoying this.

[Salt]

So that was. That was.

[Pepa]

Yeah, that was a good one.

[Salt]

A good moment.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you want to tell us about the gift or no?

[Salt]

Oh, yeah.

[Pepa]

Oh, no. I was just saying how he gave us a gift one time.

[Salt]

Yeah. When we won the Grammy.

[Pepa]

Yeah. It was made like a machine gun.

[Salt]

It was a cake.

[Pepa]

It was a cake.

[Salt]

It was made like a Glock. A Glock.

[Pepa]

Glock. Glock.

[Salt]

A cake in the shape of a gun, painted black and everything.

[Pepa]

So we was going, hmm, is he. We didn't piss him off.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Salt]

We were like, is he congratulating us for threatening?

[Pepa]

It was so cute. It was so funny. We was dead serious.

[Salt]

That question, though, seriously. Staring at this gun kid like, what the heck?

[Pepa]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Or I'm sorry.

[Pepa]

He own us. That was funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

What was the connection for him?

[Salt]

We still don't know.

[Pepa]

We don't know.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Salt]

Thug Life.

[Pepa]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

I would be remiss if I did not talk a little salt and pepper fact fashion, because the iconic eight ball leather jacket. People may not know who designed those, but they were designed by play of Kevin Play, who was your stylist before his career took off in another sense.

[Pepa]

Well,

[Salt]

he was very stylish, but he wasn't our stylist.

[Danielle Fishel]

So he gave suggestions and had ideas.

[Salt]

Yes. And he designed those jackets. He was an artist. He still is an artist. He just remade the them for us for a rock and roll hall of fame. They're like reimagined. And Dapper Dan, who was huge at that time, still is constructed the jackets. We got our boots from Fava. Y' all remember Fava Payless. Like those stores.

[Pepa]

I loved Payless.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's where Bogo. That's where even the term Bogo started.

[Salt]

Cheap boots. And then we had got the kente hats from this lady named Mary Bird. She had a little hat shop. Shop next to the Apollo in Harlem. In Harlem. And we just like back in the day, we didn't have stylists in here and makeup and all that. We was just making it up as we went along. And that became like the most iconic look.

[Pepa]

Everything.

[Salt]

Yes. Shopping for the dancers, all the things. So. And it was more fun back then. It was like so more organic.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Salt]

Getting your looks. And then those looks go on.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt]

They live forever. Just kids making up stuff.

[Pepa]

Ripped up to the.

[Salt]

The ripped up jeans. She's always claiming the ripped up jeans. They owe us money.

[Pepa]

Y' all owe us money. Take your face. That's right. Who is doing that? You've never seen a rip.

[Salt]

Jean patches on our shirts. Wearing our merch on stage, doing things.

[Pepa]

Look at those jeans. You pay. We end up paying 3, 500. A thousand dollars after that.

[Salt]

And we did them ourselves.

[Danielle Fishel]

My grandfather still now I will give him credit for starting the joke. All grandparents. Are you having a tough time? Do you need me to buy you a pair?

[Salt]

Oh, parents,

[Danielle Fishel]

cover your. I love that you're wearing your merch on stage. It takes the like wearing the. The concert tea to the concert. Just one step further.

[Salt]

Yes.

[Pepa]

Yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

Thank you.

[Salt]

He was like, my shirt. Yes. Look how good it looks.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, you really are the best models for it. Okay, I want to show you a couple other photos too. Let's go to the next. Next photo.

[Salt]

Oh, look at this. Ernie Panicoli is the photographer. Beautiful.

[Danielle Fishel]

These little bras, bright colors.

[Salt]

I was so extra Victoria's Secret deal. Like, I look like my son in that picture.

[Danielle Fishel]

Is this the thing. This got you guys a Victoria's Secret deal. Are you sitting?

[Pepa]

We were wearing our own bras. Yeah. So we were just doing our own bra and then Victoria's Secrets approached us. And then. And we started wearing. We were wearing all their bras on stage.

[Commercial Announcer]

The original.

[Salt]

Yeah, we sure were wearing those bras.

[Pepa]

They was wearing Victoria Secret bras. We did a little campaign with them.

[Danielle Fishel]

Literally. You guys are the original angels. Thank you. Let's go to the next picture. These are just a few of my favorite, absolute favorite.

[Pepa]

Looks.

[Salt]

Like. Yes, it's fire. That was Derek Khan. That's when we first started getting a stylist that probably was here and there.

[Pepa]

Derek Khan.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

Maybe. It had to be.

[Danielle Fishel]

If it's like clothes clueless, you know?

[Commercial Announcer]

I know.

[Pepa]

Look at that.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's just beautiful.

[Salt]

I love that look.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gotta bring that back. All right, let's go to the next one. Last one.

[Salt]

Oh, yes.

[Pepa]

I love that one too. I remember.

[Salt]

That was Derek Khan.

[Pepa]

Yeah, that was Derek Khan.

[Salt]

You can tell when we started getting styled.

[Danielle Fishel]

Beautiful little metallic mini dresses. I love that little sheer. Those are my favorite types of umbrellas too. The sheer where you can see the raindrops.

[Salt]

Oh, that is so women.

[Pepa]

I like that. I think these things are hu.

[Danielle Fishel]

I wonder though, was that sweaty? What happened when you got hot in a little pleather sheer dress?

[Pepa]

I barely had anything on, so I

[Salt]

was already cool enough.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

[Pepa]

Aww.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this past year you were inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Truly incredible and well deserved recognition after your 40 year career in music. I know you took time on stage to also shed some light on the frustration and roadblocks you have run into while trying to retain your master recordings. I feel like so many fans have followed this story hoping for the right thing to happen and for you to get back your music. Has there been any progress with it?

[Salt]

So. So it's like so depressing to even talk about. Let's just say this. We're still fighting.

[Danielle Fishel]

Still fighting.

[Salt]

I'm just gonna wrap that right on into. We are still fighting. And we're gonna fight. Fight as long as we can. Yes, it's been long. It's been hard, it's been expensive. But the greed in this industry is so ridiculously shameful after you've exploited someone's music for 40 years to fight them for what's rightfully theirs to continue to get. I can't even say the lion's share more than the lion's share to the point that the music has been taken down on all platforms. I'm like, they want to. It's like beyond just greed at this point. Now it's spite. So now the fans can't even access our music. And for you to make a statement of whatever kind is ridiculous. So.

[Pepa]

And I think still like we're hoping for, you know, the best, of course. But at least it raised awareness for any other artist to pay attention to their deal and understanding the 35 year rule and seeing if it applies to you. Yeah. And start getting that, you know, because you never know.

[Salt]

You know, you start out your career, you don't know that you, you think you're going to be successful, but you don't know that your music is going to be worth millions. Millions. Over the years. We are some of the most licensed music and not just hip hop in music, period. Like, you know, you could barely watch TV and I hear what a man, you know, or, or push it or shoot like let's talk about sex like we spoke of. So that lasts over a period of time and it's worth fighting for in the beginning.

[Danielle Fishel]

In the beginning. Right, set. Get off on the right foot.

[Salt]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I am rooting for you guys and thank you for spreading that awareness. When you look back on your careers, is there one performance that sticks out as the most quintessential Salt N Pepa?

[Salt]

When we performed for the Grammys, I

[Pepa]

think, I would think, yes. That's the.

[Salt]

Cause we, yeah, we went.

[Pepa]

We had rehearsals. You know, they sure would go to Hair. Like they distinctly said. We had a good rehearsal. Yeah, we got it.

[Salt]

And then. Yeah, yeah. Cause that's when we won.

[Pepa]

That's when we actually.

[Danielle Fishel]

We won.

[Salt]

So we performed. We won. And then we ran to the wrong podium like three blind mice. And they were like, then we ran

[Danielle Fishel]

back and then we had to go,

[Salt]

I can't believe it. Because we have boycotted the Grammys because there was a time when it was being nominated but not televised. So Will Smith actually pulled Public Enemy, Salt and Pepper Kid and play quite a few people. And we, we refused to go and we had a whole press conference and then years later they started televising the category. So there was also that, you know, that really meant a lot to us.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Pepa]

Because we took the church chance, you know. They were like, well, it's true. You ain't gonna never get another grandm. Right? But they still, you know, that was important and they thought about it. So it was a good move because it was televised. They saw, said so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt]

And Woodstock was another incredible. Oh God. Just to be At.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Salt]

Another Woodstock was insane because that was the main member.

[Pepa]

Everything. It was Woodstock. That was the one. That was the one.

[Salt]

And they. And our set was long. It was like we were on the main stage. That's important.

[Danielle Fishel]

Everyone wants that main stage.

[Salt]

And it was a long show. Wasn't like just two or three songs. So it was a special performance.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, speaking of performing, you are going out on the road for the it's iconic Tour alongside TLC and En Vogue starting August 15th. What a lineup. What can fans, fans expect when these three legendary groups team up? I see this as like, this is my 90s hip hop and R B Avengers.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Salt]

Wow. Yeah, I love that.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's it.

[Pepa]

How you say it again? Because we're gonna use that.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is the 90s hip hop and R B Avengers.

[Salt]

Yes. That's how we feel. Like when it came together we were like, why didn't we think of this years ago? Everything in its timing. Of course it's the perfect timing time. But the lineup is like,

[Pepa]

we didn't think of it and we haven't done any shows with tlc. Yeah. At all. Like, so that's why, like wow. You know.

[Salt]

And it's gonna be nostalgic. Like I always say. You know, back in the day it felt like we were performing for you guys. Yeah. But now we've all grown up together so it's more of like a us thing. Like we're all just gonna go back to the time when we first heard waterfalls, Shoop. When we first heard. Hold on. You know what I mean? And so we're also doing an integrated show which is going to be. Yeah. Crazy fun. So yeah, we're looking forward to it. And it's been selling out. There was some controversy attached to it for a minute.

[Pepa]

Yeah.

[Salt]

And the people are just like, we showing up, showing up. So we're appreciative and we've been rehearsing. Well, we going to rehearsal after this.

[Pepa]

We going to rehearsal after this. So I'm like, oh, we love it.

[Salt]

Cuz we have six boy dancers.

[Danielle Fishel]

So

[Salt]

rehearsal is our favorite thing to do. We just be sitting there like, wow. I know.

[Pepa]

Shout out to the dancers. They be killing.

[Salt]

They be killing it all over again. Or different auditioning dancers. Back in the day was our other favorite thing.

[Pepa]

Other favorite Auditions. Auditions. Yes. I've auditioned Light Up Boys. Light Em Up Boys.

[Salt]

And we've never messed with dancers, but we like to look at them, you know.

[Pepa]

Don't. Speak for yourself. Speak for yourself. No, you haven't. Stop lying. Lying Wait, something? I don't know. I don't know.

[Salt]

You don't think so?

[Pepa]

Wait, who?

[Salt]

Oh, girl. Oh, did you not know? Oh, no, I knew.

[Pepa]

I forgot a little something something.

[Salt]

But he's not a dancer.

[Pepa]

He was. Well, he was a background.

[Salt]

No, see, listen, let's context. I'm talking about dancers we hired that was on our payroll to dance for us.

[Danielle Fishel]

In that specific, yes, okay. But in the broader context, we don't

[Salt]

mess with the employees. You got to look at it like this. Keep people yourself.

[Commercial Announcer]

I might.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Pepa]

But we never had.

[Danielle Fishel]

There's a first time for everything is what we're saying.

[Pepa]

Oh, it's too late for that now. Yeah, yeah. I'm not messing. It's eight years that ship shell.

[Danielle Fishel]

I cannot thank you both enough for coming onto Teen Be Beat. This is really a career highlight. You have brought me so much joy over the years. So to have you here in front of my face and be able to have a conversation with you has really meant a lot.

[Pepa]

So thank you. Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

You can catch Salt N Pepa on the road in the iconic tour with TLC and En Vogue starting August 15th in Franklin, Tennessee. You can see all of the dates and get your tickets [e-mail] period.

[Salt]

Clock Betsy

[Danielle Fishel]

Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sudbaksh. The theme song is by Mark Hoppus. Yes, that Mark Hoppus. Follow us on Instagram teenbeatpod

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pepa]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Pepa]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Salt]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Pepa]

Guaranteed human.