Pod Meets Twirl'd: Married at First Sight 2006 & 2007

Summary

Pod Meets World

Episode: "Pod Meets Twirl'd: Married at First Sight 2006 & 2007"

Release Date: August 7, 2026
Hosts: Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle, Ryder Strong

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Will Friedle and Ryder Strong take on episodes 6 and 7 of the reality series Married at First Sight (season 20). Having previously riffed about the concept of arranged marriage, this time they return as outsiders witnessing couples legally marry strangers and try to build relationships in real time—honeymoons over, reality setting in. The hosts analyze relationship dynamics, emotional vulnerability, reality TV editing, and the broader implications of jumping into the institution of marriage with a total stranger, all while maintaining their trademark blend of wit, introspection, and skepticism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The MAFS Experience: Awkward Intimacy Up Close

• Ryder confesses discomfort with the show’s premise now that the honeymoon phase is over and real conflicts emerge.
  • “I feel invasive when I’m like a fly on the wall. When people are happy, I’m judging them. When they fight, it’s painful.” (03:43)
• Will questions how much of these couples’ self-expression is “real” versus performed for producers/cameras:
  • “I know two human beings that would never talk like this if the cameras weren’t around. Not to this extent.” (06:00)

2. The Nikki & Sean Quagmire: Staying for the Cameras?

• The hosts zero in on Nikki and Sean’s conflict-heavy dynamic; both are skilled debaters but constantly at an impasse.
  • “If you’re trying to win, you’re not in a relationship… you’re just not listening to the other person.” – Will (07:17)
  • Ryder highlights how hurt gets weaponized in arguments:
    • “When my wife and I would be in arguments I’d be like, oh, I’m now just trying to hurt you. That’s when it’s never going to go anywhere.” (07:38)
• Will speculates Nikki’s initial disappointment at seeing Sean may be fueling ongoing drama:
  • “She walked down the aisle… when she figured out that was her husband, she was horribly disappointed. Now it has to look like she’s been trying hard and he’s terrible… That’s what she’s trying to do and it ain’t working.” (11:13)

3. The “Arranged Marriage” Social Experiment

• Both hosts are fascinated by the show selecting couples based on compatibility “on paper” and observing what happens next—it’s “the oldest social experiment.”

• Will points out the oddity of deciding who gets rid of their apartment, who moves in together, and who stays celibate—before even developing basic intimacy:

  • “90% of them haven’t even had sex—it’s so weird.” (12:48)

4. Intimacy and Readiness: Are These People Built For Marriage?

• Courtney & Nick’s lack of physical affection is put under a microscope. Courtney’s discomfort with even minor intimacy leads to group speculation:
  • “She’s spinning, man… if you touch me this long, then it means maybe that…” – Ryder (36:33)
  • “She’s kind of in her head… the flirty, light spark isn’t there.” – Will (36:40)
• Will is skeptical of contestants joining the show unprepared:
  • “If you need your alone time all the time, don’t get married. Don’t be in a relationship.” (32:24)
• Ryder is sympathetic to participants who panic:
  • “How can you be ready for this? This show is bonkers.” (13:21)

5. Fresh Perspectives: Relationship Lessons and Reflections

• The hosts share their own relationship histories and the value of responsibility and "I statements."
  • “You have to not say those things if you can avoid it… The big thing for me: ‘I’m hurt, I felt this way, I can only be responsible for how I’m feeling… not for how you're feeling or acting.’”—Ryder (20:22–21:14)
• Will relays a poignant story about apologies not always making things better:
  • “Sorry is not going to always make everything better. That one word doesn’t magically make... I still think about that.” (21:30)

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Timestamps of Notable Segments & Quotes

[03:43] — Ryder’s discomfort:

“This show is turning for me. It’s making me very uncomfortable.”

[06:00] — Reality vs. performance:

“You wonder just basically how much of it is being put on for the cameras.” – Will

[07:17] — The futility of ‘winning’ fights:

“If you’re trying to win, you’re not in a relationship… you’re just not listening.” – Will

[11:13] — On Nikki’s disappointment:

“She was horribly disappointed… It has to look like she’s been trying hard and he’s terrible… It’s not her fault at all. That’s, I think, what she’s trying to do and it ain’t working.” – Will

[20:22–21:14] — ‘I Statements’ in conflict:

“The thing for me… was the ‘I statement’… I can only be responsible for how I’m feeling, not how you’re feeling or acting.” – Ryder

[21:30] — On apologies:

“Sorry is not going to always make everything better. That one word doesn’t magically make… I still think about that.” – Will

[31:01] — Will’s take on ‘relationship distance:’

“I don’t understand the, hey, if we’re going to be in a relationship, I need you to leave for three weeks, a month… that’s not my jam.”

[32:24] — On choosing marriage:

“If you need your alone time all the time, don’t get married.” – Will
*“That’s what’s so interesting about this show in general… you didn’t pick the person and then decide on the institution; the institution was decided upon. I want to be married.”—Ryder

[36:33] — Courtney’s spiral:

“She’s spinning, man…she spirals quickly.” – Ryder
“She’s got lots of red flags.” – Will

[44:07] — Daddy Issues, Transparency, and Healing

“We’re not going to heal each other’s wounds but we can soothe them.” – Ryder on Mecca and Belle (43:17)

[62:27] — The “Love is Blind” meta-moment:

“Love is blind.” – Courtney
“That’s Netflix.”—Nick

[75:19] — Courtney’s objectification

“When Adam’s the hottest of the whole group, he might not have to be that thoughtful.” – Courtney
“That’s a wild comment.” – Ryder

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Highlight Reel: Memorable Moments & Hot Takes

• MAFS (Married at First Sight) sounds like a disease.
  “I got a bad case of the MAFS from a jet ski.” — Joking riff (03:23+)

• Jet Ski as Relationship Metaphor:
  Ryder and Will lampoon Adam’s jet ski obsession, with Ryder quipping,
  “I mean, the thing about jet skiing—it’s not. You’re just skidding along the water… I don’t understand the thrill here.” (29:02)

• Arranged Marriages Past & Present:
  Will brings in the saga of Consuelo Vanderbilt for historical context, highlighting how recently loveless, transactional marriages were commonplace and linking it to the current show’s premise. (87:00+)

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Couples in Focus

| Couple | Key Dynamics | Host Commentary | |----------------------|----------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | Nikki & Sean | Highly articulate, perpetual conflict, both skilled at arguing but emotionally stuck. | “They just shouldn’t be together. She got the ick the second she saw him, and it never went away.” (84:05–84:10) | | Adam & Marissa | On-paper perfect, “vibing,” lack of deeper questions, propelled by fun energy and surface compatibility. | “They seem like the healthiest couple… except everyone pushes back that they don’t get deep.” (74:06) | | Courtney & Nick | Physical/affection barriers, past baggage, issue of “readiness” for intimacy or marriage at all. | “She’s not ready for this process.” (13:59, 75:41) | | Mecca & Belle | On-paper match, struggle with vulnerability and “friend-zoning,” past parental trauma as a bonding agent. | “We’re not going to heal each other’s wounds but we can soothe them.” (43:17, 78:44) | | Tori & Felipe | Religious/cultural contrasts, moments of real openness, making progress through small reveals. | “They do seem to be vibing but holding some things back.” (44:20) | | Caitlyn & Devon | Coping with neediness/independence gap, good communication, Devon putting in “the work.” | “He’s putting in the work. Just a little of that for Nikki and Sean would go so far.” (80:58) | | Michelle & Cameron | Slow-burn but solid, unhurried intimacy, relatable off-camera moments. | “Might be the ‘coming up on the outside’ couple.” (16:51) |

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Social Commentary & Takeaways

• Marriage as Institution:
  The show spotlights participants who believe in marriage as a framework before forming deep interpersonal bonds, reversing the typical order of relationship development.
• Vulnerability vs. Performance:
  Many couples struggle to distinguish authentic intimacy from performative gestures—on and off camera.
• Historical Resonances:
  The hosts reflect on how arranged marriages for strategic, financial, or social purposes aren't that far in the past, linking MAFS to the “dollar princesses” and transatlantic matches.

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Conclusion

Ryder and Will’s exploration delivers both armchair psychoanalysis and personal vulnerability—a blend of comedy, empathy, and critical thinking. They question the ethics of televised social experiments, reflect on their own relationship missteps, and highlight how deeply ingrained expectations shape all our approaches to love and marriage.

“As a study of how people are—this whole notion of getting married and then realizing what a relationship is, is really fascinating. And I am learning a lot… confronting things I have to think about.” – Ryder (85:51)

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If you’re a fan of reality TV, relationship breakdowns, or just enjoy hearing old friends dissect uncomfortable truths with humor and insight, this episode delivers.

Transcript

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

Guaranteed Human

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

hey everyone, it's Kalpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

number and T Mobile helps pay it off up to $800 per line.

[Ryder Strong]

So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

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[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

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[Glen Washington]

Every week, the Snap Judgment podcast drops you inside someone's biggest decision, the kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line. What do you believe? What do you want, and what would you risk to get it? Find out Snap Judgment New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts, Welcome to

[Ryder Strong]

POD meets Twirled, the podcast that began with Dancing with the Stars, wandered through castles, survived beaches, and spent an entire season debating the social hierarchy of cocktail parties. Along the way, Will and I riffed on what I thought was a hypothetical maybe arranged marriage isn't the worst idea. Apparently our producers were listening. So now we are watching Married at first sight, season 20, a show where complete strangers meet at the altar, say I do, and only then begin the awkward process of discovering whether they have anything in common whatsoever. We are Will Friedle, who loves love and believes marriage should be about the marriage, not the wedding, and Ryder Strong, who loves, love and made one observation about arranged marriage and is now being forced to defend it for an entire television season. Join us as experts Therapists, family members, and complete strangers all attempt the oldest social experiment in human history with confessionals. This is POD meets Twirled. All or nothing. How you doing, Will?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

I'm good.

[Will Friedle]

I'm sorry, Ryder, What. What is this show called?

[Ryder Strong]

All or nothing.

[Will Friedle]

No, what is it? Merit at first sight? Or is it mafs?

[Ryder Strong]

Mafs. Yeah. The acronym MAFS has been what's been going around, and it just sounds like a disease.

[Will Friedle]

Maths. Maths.

[Ryder Strong]

Got a bad case in the maths

[Will Friedle]

from a jet ski.

[Ryder Strong]

Got it from a Jet Ski.

[Will Friedle]

From a public toilet and a jet Ski.

[Ryder Strong]

It can't happen. You can get MAFS from a jet ski.

[Will Friedle]

You can.

[Ryder Strong]

This show is turning for me. It's making me very uncomfortable.

[Will Friedle]

Really? When did that happen? When they. When they left the honeymoon phase. Just like a regular relationship.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. It's really. Because even when it's good, I'm like. Now I'm like. I feel invasive when I'm like a fly on the wall. When people are happy, I'm like, well, now I'm just judging them when they're fine, and then when they're in fights, it's painful to watch. Like, the Nikki Sean stuff is really.

[Will Friedle]

That's brutal. That's brutal.

[Ryder Strong]

It's really hard.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

There's a couple. And here's the thing, there's a couple couples, which I like to say as often as I can, there's a couple couples that I've completely and totally like. Teams is the wrong way to say, like, oh, I'm Team Nikki or I'm Team Sean. Like, I'm not on one team or another. But there's. There's people that. I don't know if they're producing it this way or if it's just the way that it's working out, but there's people where I was like, oh, I. I'm. I get where they're coming from, and their partner is really not helping. And then it's switched to where it's like, oh, now I think it's your fault. Of the stuff that's going on that's happened to me with a couple of the. The different couples that we've had.

[Ryder Strong]

I feel like. I mean, I'm. I'm impressed in general with how sensitive everybody is. Like, how. I guess I assumed, you know, maybe. And this is because of just not having watched that much reality, but I assumed reality TV was, like, a bunch of kind of superficial people or like, the way that they would present themselves would be a little more, like, posturing and actually like, everybody on this show is pretty good at like tapping into their feelings, talking about what they're going through. You know, even like Adam and Marissa, who are like sort of a caricature of like the. Everything's great, we're perfect.

[Will Friedle]

The bro couple.

[Ryder Strong]

When she opens up at the dinner, I was like, dude, she's got great insight. Like she's saying, you know, so I don't know, I'm just, I'm.

[Will Friedle]

I guess generation was raised by parents to where your feelings matter when they don't.

[Ryder Strong]

So you think it's too much that you think these people are like over analyzing.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh my God. You're so old school. The helicopter parent.

[Will Friedle]

Like, you're, you're eight and your feelings are important. No, they're not. Shut up and do your job.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, but, but both Marissa and Adam came from not like, not helicopter parenting.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Ryder Strong]

They both talk about how they didn't have that.

[Will Friedle]

They're the least connected to their feelings of everybody, I think.

[Ryder Strong]

And I think they can still articulate it pretty well.

[Will Friedle]

You wonder the Heisenberg principle, though. You wonder just basically how much of it is being put on for the cameras. Like, I hear like every. I hear Nikki and Sean talk to each other.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, they're the worst.

[Will Friedle]

These are just. I know two human beings that would never talk like this if the cameras weren't around them. Well, not to this extent.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know about that. Maybe not to this extent.

[Will Friedle]

Sue and I started doing it. It's hysterical. Like, I hear you, I hear you,

[Ryder Strong]

but I feel that you're gaslighting me. When gaslighting came out, I was like, there it is. It's like all those word. There's some toxicity to our problematic processing. And I'm like, oh, don't say those words anymore. Just stop it.

[Will Friedle]

This is like talking on Tik Tok.

[Ryder Strong]

You've read, you've read all the adv columns. You've read every self help book as it comes out. The seven habits of Highly Effective Communicators. And you are just playing a tutor. No, I want the two of them to just like put on boxing gloves and punch each other. Like, that's where I'm at. I'm like, guys, I can see that you guys should just get naked, have to be naked in front of each other and wear boxing gloves and then have an argument.

[Will Friedle]

You know what I mean?

[Ryder Strong]

Like, be vulnerable, but then also be like armed to the team and like go at it because they're playing it so safe and yet like, they point out their egos are still so big. Like both of them, they both think that going to win even without being aggressive. So they're like passively, aggressively trying to one up one another, trying to hurt one another. And it sucks.

[Will Friedle]

If you're trying to win, you're not in a relationship. You're not even in an argument. If you're trying to win, it's like you're just not listening to the other person.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, the. The distinction. And I think we've talked about this before. Like, for me, like, the distinction between and I had a friend. Friends point this out. We were talking about relationships and argument. Like, having conflict is obviously inevitable. Having a disagreement obviously inevitable.

[Will Friedle]

And.

[Ryder Strong]

But the difference between, like an argument or a conflict and a fight is when you start trying to hurt one another. Like when you're actually trying to, you know, And I had to realize that, like, when my wife and I would be in arguments and I'd be like, oh, I'm. I'm now just trying to hurt you.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And like, you know, and like, being able to recognize it in myself, like, because of course, it's like, you know, because you get hurt and then you're like, well, I'm going to hurt you. Yeah. And it's like, that's when it's never going to go anywhere.

[Will Friedle]

And again, that's a lot of times in an earned relationship. Not the week, the first week you've been married. I know.

[Ryder Strong]

I thought this was the end. At the end of season or episode seven. I thought it was over. I know. It should be.

[Will Friedle]

These are two people that are now just here because neither of them want to look like they gave up on national television.

[Glen Washington]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

He even says it. He's like, I'm committed.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's like, what does that have to do what.

[Will Friedle]

I know I'm committed to this podcast. Ryder, I hear you. I'm processing what you're saying.

[Ryder Strong]

I just feel like there's something a little problematic in the way you're gaslighting me. There's a little. It's. It's a passive toxicity that.

[Will Friedle]

You're very controlling.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Ryer.

[Will Friedle]

You're very controlling.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, sometimes you could be a little crazy. And that's. Quoting your words back, crazy. I definitely have learned that lesson. Have you. Have you ever made the mistake of calling somebody crazy?

[Unknown Male Speaker]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

Relationship?

[Will Friedle]

No. I had a drink thrown in my face once mid fight.

[Ryder Strong]

Are you serious?

[Will Friedle]

I compared her to her mom.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Oh.

[Will Friedle]

I was like, you know, you're more like your Mother than you. And before I got the R and mother out the drink with ice, and everything was right in my face. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

That's intense, dude.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Security was called at us at a hotel. It's never happened before. I was, like, 23.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. Was this somebody you had been dating for a while?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, we'd been together for, like, a year and a half. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. Well, that's intense.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

And I.

[Will Friedle]

Cause I've never been in, like, a fighty kind of relationship ever. And she was. She got hot, man.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, maybe you got hot. She was trying to cool you down. You were the one on fire.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

It worked.

[Will Friedle]

I was like, oh, hey, okay. Have drink thrown in face once in life.

[Charity Lawson]

Check.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

So.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Don't ever compare them to their mother if they don't get along with their mother.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, that's probably a bad call, not a good thing.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, no, A lot of this reads like it's like a Reddit post. Like, it feels like it should start, like, I'm Nikki, 46, female, and my partner, Sean, 44, male. It's like, okay, this is. You guys just shouldn't be together.

[Ryder Strong]

It's just painful because, like, I. It's. They're both. They're both very articulate. They're both very. They're very good at, like, presenting. And so it's just becomes this, like, you. Like I said, I just want them to scream at each other more or not, and just, like, you know, lay down and whisper to each other. But because this, like, talking in circles, it's like, the worst.

[Will Friedle]

It's like.

[Ryder Strong]

It's all, like. Whenever they are talking, it feels like they've already been talking for six hours and we're not getting anywhere. Do you know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

And it's like that circular conversation, and you're like, this is.

[Ryder Strong]

It's two in the morning, and we've been having this fight, and we're still. And neither one of us are willing to let it go. Hate that feeling. That is like, literally the worst feeling in the world that I, you know, just never want to be in again.

[Will Friedle]

I think one of them. I mean, he kind of at one point said, I'm giving. I'm relinquishing it. I mean, do you think one of them just has to give up the power? Is it like, okay, one of them has to be the alpha. It's like, all right, fine, if that's what you want to do, then, yes, you're in charge.

[Ryder Strong]

But that's what he was doing. At the end of. I think that's what he was saying when he's like, it's all me. I'm. I don't want to fight anymore. You know, And I think like he was trying to say, like, I will take responsibility.

[Glen Washington]

And, and.

[Ryder Strong]

But of course, he was doing it in a way to sort of, I think. So she had to be the one to say, okay, I will also take responsibility. Which she's not about to do. Never happened.

[Will Friedle]

No. Yeah. This is one of the switches. I was like, he's. I don't buy him in this relationship. But now I'm like, all right, something's wrong with her in this relationship. And I think I know what it is. We've talked about this. She walked down the aisle, she saw him. I think you're right. She didn't realize that was going to be her husband. When she figured out that was her husband, she was horribly disappointed. And now it has to look like she's been trying hard and he's terrible to be with and they're going to break up. It's not her fault at all. That's, I think, what she's trying to do and it ain't working. It's the, the two of them just shouldn't be together.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, let's move into episode six when everybody's moving into new places. Now, I didn't quite get this. So they get like a neutral apartment.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

To move into.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. They both shared cohabitate until they then. Cuz then there's an episode. If it's, if it's like the Old School series, then there's an episode where they have to decide.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

If they're going to stay together, which one of their places they're going to move into. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

They reference that in this. And I was like, so you're not fully married yet. Do you know what I mean? Like, that sounds like there's a commitment, choice moment.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, That's.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. You, you're married. Legally married. And it's like, do you want to stay together or do you want to get divorced? But before then, because, I mean, every marriage and relationship, there's all these logistical, like actual logistical fundamental issues you have to talk about. One of them is, well, I have an apartment and you have an apartment, so are we keeping one apart? And it leads to fights. Some people are like, I'm not getting rid of place. And then the person's like, well, I'm

[Ryder Strong]

looking forward to the next.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. They, you know, it's all that kind of stuff where it's like, are we living together? What are we doing? Let's both get rid of our places and get a new place together. And then it's like, well, I'm not sure I want to make that commitment.

[Ryder Strong]

Meanwhile, 90% of them haven't even had sex. Like, it's so weird. So how do you make these decisions when you're, like, still processing whether you can be intimate with this person, let alone spend the rest of your life being intimate? Oh, my God.

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Or you can be with somebody like Courtney who doesn't want to be intimate or have deep conversations, and you just kind of go, great, then what the am I doing here, Courtney? So she's.

[Ryder Strong]

I take it she's not your favorite anymore.

[Will Friedle]

It's not that she's not my favorite. It's just somebody that clearly is not ready for this process.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, she seems like a very nice person who's got a ton of

[Ryder Strong]

credit, I would say. How can you be ready for this? This show is bonkers. And this is like.

[Will Friedle]

But you got to at least be open to the idea that it's like you're. They're pairing you with some. Have you never watched the show? It's like, I'm saying of like, Courtney, the people on the show have to know exactly what the show is. And so if you come in going, hey, I'm not ready to be intimate in any way. And that doesn't mean sex. Any sort of intense.

[Ryder Strong]

Holding hands and, like, holding hands.

[Will Friedle]

Kissing, even, like, getting under the covers and staring at each other with the lights off and, like, telling each other stories and intimate things close to each other. That's being intimate. You don't. You don't have to touch each other. And then when, you know, some people are like, yeah. Oh, God, I hate those deep conversations, too. It's like, well, then what are we doing here? Like, you're just not.

[Ryder Strong]

You're.

[Will Friedle]

You are not ready for this process. And I think. I think there's a couple people that are like that.

[Glen Washington]

That.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, well, we see Felipe and Tori moving into a new place. He's afraid of heights. Adam and Marissa hanging up the jet Ski.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, dude.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like carrying her across the altar. And here's the jet ski key. It's going right there, babe. Caitlyn and Devin. I love this fake plant moment where she's like, wait, that plant's real? I was like. It was like that 28 days later thing. Remember we talked about how, like, you have to be able to take care of It. And she's like, no, no, I kill everything thing. I was like, oh, red flag.

[Will Friedle]

I cannot have killed this plant. It cannot have been my fault.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Okay?

[Ryder Strong]

But it's like she really.

[Glen Washington]

Any.

[Ryder Strong]

Like a plant is too needy for her. So it's like, Devin, dude, like, you're screwed, man. Like, if you want anything from her, if you have any needs, it's going to be perceived as needy like that. It's so clear to me. And he is such a good guy. By the end of these two episodes, I was like, so good. You were doing the best. Like, you were working so hard to accommodate somebody who I like. I would be so bad in a relationship with this person.

[Will Friedle]

Like, oh, God, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, just. I need some.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Compliments, affection, something.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it's when your response to is that plant alive? He goes, no, it's real. Her response was, ew,

[Ryder Strong]

gross, disgusting. And that's a plant in our house.

[Will Friedle]

Oh my God, is that baby crying again? You feed it like, whatever. No, it was. Yeah.

[Glen Washington]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

This is all this is. This is Jeff's doing.

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

You know, you always like to blame Jeff.

[Ryder Strong]

I do. I mean, yeah. I shouldn't psychoanalyze too much because I'm surprised they haven't brought any of that up. I guess they're just kind of leaving the parents.

[Will Friedle]

We're not there yet. We'll get it eventually, I'm sure.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Mecca and Beljo Lee are filling up their closet with her clothes. Nick and Courtney. Nick is a little lonely. Seems like Michelle and Cameron. She's cutting cucumber. He wants them thinner. Talks about this moment, which he brings up a couple times in these two episodes about when they got stuck at the airport. And this is like a great moment. And this is one of the only times on this show when they've referenced off camera moments. Yeah, there must be a lot of off camera interaction that. But these.

[Will Friedle]

Which is good.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, because they were just chilling together at an airport, stuck in Pittsburgh. They have a 13 hour travel day. And like, I don't know, he's. He's happy because they had that like an authentic moment and it was off camera. And I wish the other people had these too. Like. Or they must have them. I don't know. I'm assuming they do, but it's weird that they don't talk about them or reference them. Anyway, seems like he's happy with her and she's, you know, into it too. They're doing pretty well.

[Will Friedle]

They might be the coming up on the outside couple, like Ed and Coming

[Ryder Strong]

up on the outside, out of nowhere,

[Will Friedle]

Michelle and Cameron, like, it's like, wow, this after this, these two episodes, I was kind of like, okay, right, okay, right, right.

[Ryder Strong]

Because Philippe Bantore took a little step back in some ways.

[Will Friedle]

Well, he. He really took a couple steps back, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

We'll get into it.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. Back with Felipe and Torre. He's sad the honeymoon's over, but she's saying there's still so much to know about each other. They are not having sex. It's too early. Nikki and Sean, they cheers to a good night's sleep, and let's get back at it tomorrow. Like, it's a freaking job.

[Will Friedle]

I was like, oh, punch it in the morning. Morning, Nikki.

[Ryder Strong]

Morning, Sean. You ready? The six hours of argument. Here we go. Okay, let's get into this. Oh, my God. So this is where we find out that he called her crazy, which he disputes that he was actually quoting her. And these two are just. They're both good arguers, you know? And I think one of. They're both used to dominating in a conversation. Like, they both are really good.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, I feel like in past relationships, they've been the one who's been able to, like, run the way the argument goes. Do you know what I mean? If there is an argument. And now they've kind of met their match, which is in some ways a sign that they were well put together, you know, on the matchmaking front.

[Will Friedle]

Well, they've said that on paper.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

They're great together on paper. They have. It has whatever you need. They're driven. They're both. They seem like they're both spiritual people that, you know, it seems like on paper, it's what you want, but you get them together, and it's just.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, in her confessional, she talks about the fact that maybe that she told him that she's not attracted to him. That's exacerbated some of his insecurities, you think? And so she thinks that he's ratcheting up the conflict. And. And I think that's an accurate reading. But it's interesting that she can't. She can say that, but she can't translate that to how she treats him. You know what I mean? Like, she could say, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. You're coming from a place of being hurt. Let's just be nicer to one another. And she's not even saying that she's still get into it with him. And, like, ugh.

[Will Friedle]

How do you feel about because this happens oftentimes in arguments, and it's usually the man who's breaking it down. How do you feel about the semantic argument of I didn't call you a. I said you were acting like a.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I think it's actually very important.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, see, I do, too, but just

[Ryder Strong]

to make that distinction. Yeah. Because, like, I will never. Like, especially with kids, you have to do it, too, because, like, I make sure that I never call Indy anything. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't say, like, you are essentially, but you're acting like this being this. Because, you know, and. And he gets all. He's like, you called me an idio. I'm like, no, I said you're doing something stupid, you know, or whatever. And it is a distinction because, like, you don't want to essentialize anything, you know.

[Will Friedle]

So is your acting crazy better than you're crazy?

[Ryder Strong]

Not in my marriage. I cannot say that.

[Will Friedle]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

The C word is off. The C word has been off for. Off the table for about 10 years now.

[Will Friedle]

You have a much different C word in your. In your house than most people do.

[Ryder Strong]

You cannot. And. And I've learned all the various variations on crazy are also not.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. Okay, you were crazy.

[Ryder Strong]

Unstable, insane, schizophrenic, monstrously, I don't know, emotional.

[Will Friedle]

I said you were an emotional nightmare.

[Ryder Strong]

Nice that you were crazy.

[Will Friedle]

There's a difference.

[Ryder Strong]

I said you were completely unhinged. That's not. That's different.

[Glen Washington]

No. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I can't. You know, I just. You. You have to not say any of those things if you can avoid it. But when you're describing each other's behavior, I mean. No, like, the thing for me, that's, you know, a huge something that I learned probably too late, not until I was in my 30s, was like the I statement. Things, you know, like saying how you feel about something. Like, I felt this way.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

I am hurt. You know, I am, like. Because then it's like, kind of indisputable, you know, because if you're telling somebody what they did wrong, it's like, that's what you're arguing about when you're just like, look, I'm feeling this way, and it hurts me that this happened. And they, you know, when you said this, this was my reaction. And, like, that's indisputable.

[Will Friedle]

Right?

[Ryder Strong]

So then the person has to sort of either take. Defend their action or acknowledge that they didn't want to hurt you or, you know, however. But it's that. That was like the big thing for me, it was like, I can only be responsible for how I'm feeling, not like how you're feeling or how you're acting.

[Will Friedle]

You know, I remember in middle school, I. I got one of the greatest lessons ever. We had one of those school meetings where everybody came around and they had some guest speaker, and he stood on the. Stood on stage and he said, all right, here's here. He was talking about getting into fights with people and relationships with people. And he goes, here's what I want everybody to do. He goes, hold your hands out as far as you can and then slap them together as hard as you can. One, two, three, go. And everybody went whack. And he went, sorry, do your hands still sting? Yeah. So sorry is not going to always make everything better. He's like, I. I apologize for making you slam your hands together, but your hands still sting. So don't ever forget that. That one word doesn't magically make. And I was like 11 years old. I was like, oh, man. And I still think about that every once.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, that's a good call, right?

[Charity Lawson]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

I'm never going to like, just saying I'm sorry isn't necessarily going to make everything right. So, yeah, you're still going to have the feelings, right?

[Ryder Strong]

You're still going to have this. Yeah. That's interesting.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Pen, the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week, I'm sitting down with author Matt Dinnemann and narrator Jeff Hayes to talk about dungeon crawler Carl. Matt had one line in a notebook from middle school alien game show. It took him until 2019 to finally write it, but what came out was an out of this world audiobook phenomenon. We talked about that origin talking cat with a charisma stat that breaks the game and what it takes to. To voice an entire world.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Fiction is bull, so you gotta trick me into caring about what you're talking about. And that's always what I have thought of as my job. So as a narrator, I always wanna keep you engaged by making you feel as if I care as a narrator. And when I do dialogue, I don't want to tell you what the characters are saying. I want you to hear firsthand.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Glen Washington]

I'm Gwen Washington from Snap Judgment, the storytelling podcast from kqed. Imagine an iconic piece of paradise overrun by one of the most horrific fires in recent memory. Everyone flees. Everyone except one person who decides to fight the flames. All systems down. The moment when nature, institutions and technology fail at the exact same time. A new Snapjacket miniseries from kqed. Wherever you get your podcasts, this is

[Charity Lawson]

Charity Lawson from Bachelor Happy Hour.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

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[Charity Lawson]

That's easy. Seeing my friends last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.

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[Charity Lawson]

That's so true.

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[Ryder Strong]

Adam and Marissa he is shaving an M into his neck which I find like whatever but Marissa says it's the most romantic thing anyone's ever done for me.

[Will Friedle]

Well no, she. She didn't realize it's answer Jet ski

[Ryder Strong]

So yeah, my jet ski Mona his jet ski.

[Glen Washington]

Surprise.

[Ryder Strong]

He's gonna have to change the name of his that's good to Marissa too. Which one am I gonna ride today babe? Marissa one or Marissa two? You decide.

[Will Friedle]

I'm going to be vibing with one of my.

[Ryder Strong]

You're going to be vibing with one of my babes, Bab.

[Will Friedle]

One of my M's. Today is going to be rattling my balls. Which one's it going to be?

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. All right. Courtney and Nick have a wall sit challenge. He makes it a whole minute and ten seconds before he collapses.

[Will Friedle]

Of course, probably a minute and nine seconds longer than I could do it. Those things are really a minute.

[Ryder Strong]

A minute is. I can do a minute. I've done the seven minute workout. Oh, no, I guess that's only 30 seconds when you do the seven minute workout. It's the only time I've ever done wall sits is during that little exercise.

[Will Friedle]

I tap out about 6, 6 minutes and 45 seconds before that 7 minute workout ends.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Sean and Nikki in the morning, he did not sleep a lot because he was on the couch. And then he says they are both bright sons and he's happy to let her be the son.

[Will Friedle]

It just sounds like it's. Everything's like a hallmarky thing. I know. Also, when you sleep on the couch, do you not get a blanket?

[Ryder Strong]

I know. He just lays there with his robe

[Will Friedle]

on, with his face down with his robe on. It's like you don't even get a pillow. Like, oh, God.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, as he says, he goes, this is what it feels like to be in the doghouse.

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Marisa and Adam, he is taking her to the cabin. And he says, there she is, the jet ski, the other woman. And there are ice picks in the ceiling, which she admits is a little creepy.

[Will Friedle]

Did you think this was his cabin?

[Ryder Strong]

What do you mean?

[Will Friedle]

I mean, when I first saw the show, when they first go and the

[Ryder Strong]

doc visit him to tell him that he is on the show, I thought

[Will Friedle]

this was the little shack next to the water where you keep all the stuff. And then up the hill was the cabin. And this is just where you keep. No, that thing that's covered in the tarp. That's the cabin.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. So you thought it was a boathouse?

[Will Friedle]

Yes, I thought it was a tiny, ramshackle boathouse where he keeps like, oh, this is where we keep all the stuff for. For the lake. But. And we can sit down here. But you walk up these stairs and there's the nice house at the top. No, that's his house.

[Ryder Strong]

He said it's a little cabin. Like he basically lives to jet ski and like do his work or I guess whatever tech work he does.

[Will Friedle]

This was not what I was expecting.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, well, Adam points out his degree. He pronounces cum laude. Cum laude, which I'm surprised he doesn't say come loud. I was come loud. Magna come loud in college.

[Will Friedle]

I gotta wear a magnum to come loud.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, then they're gonna hit the jet ski. Let's rip. And she's screaming the whole time, which I didn't buy.

[Will Friedle]

But this cut from like, let's ride the jet ski to just.

[Ryder Strong]

I know, but she's not actually screaming,

[Will Friedle]

but they're just putting hysterically funny. Yeah, it was funn.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, the thing about jet skiing, it's like, even watching it, they're trying to make it seem exciting and thrilling, but, like, it's not. It's not. You can't tip over in these things. Like, you just are skidding along the water. Like, it's not. I don't understand the thrill here.

[Will Friedle]

It's the easiest extreme sport, which is why you can rent them to, like, 12 year olds.

[Ryder Strong]

It's not really.

[Will Friedle]

This is not, like, a thing.

[Ryder Strong]

And, like, if you're, like, going down, like, a river or something, like, dangerous. But he's, like, wide open on a lake.

[Charity Lawson]

Yeah.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

We can do a bunch of fast circles. And then we've done the thing. Like, we've done the jet ski. Like, the extent of this experience. I. I don't understand.

[Will Friedle]

He does it multiple times a day.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a really interesting thing.

[Will Friedle]

Hey, everybody's got their own hobby, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And I guess it's harmless, except that they're loud and obnoxious on a lake. Like, I hate hearing jet skis when I'm on a lake, personally.

[Glen Washington]

That's why.

[Will Friedle]

That's the thing I loved about Arrowhead is they weren't allowed.

[Ryder Strong]

They weren't.

[Will Friedle]

Huh? No. Oh, absolutely. Not allowed to have jet skis.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Nope.

[Will Friedle]

I kind or wake, whatever they are. The. So he's. He's on a jet ski. But then is that different than the standup jet ski? Do they even make the standup?

[Ryder Strong]

They don't even make those anymore, man. I did the. Yeah, I did that when I was like, 10 or 11. So much fun.

[Will Friedle]

Very hard.

[Ryder Strong]

Took me all day.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And then I told you that I did e. Foiling.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Which sounds super fun.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's silent because it's electric engine. So you're just like. And you're like. You feel like you're, like, flying above the water, and it's hard. It's like a real skill, and you have to like. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, super fun. But jet skiing, not my jam.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Caitlyn and Devon talking about their routines, how he hates cleaning the bathroom. They have this little moment over sharing their food, their takeout food. This is where, like, their little, you know, they're not. They're not connecting completely.

[Charity Lawson]

He, He.

[Ryder Strong]

He says, like, don't worry, I won't be waiting at home like a puppy dog. And she, like, jumps in with, good, good, good, great.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it seem. It's just, I guess there are some people, and it wasn't in this episode as several episodes down the line, but you really get her friends when her friends come in and you're like, oh, oh, they.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, I haven't watched it.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, yeah. Where it's. Well, it's just one of those things where there are some people that relish being away from their partner and having their own life as much as they do being with their partner. And hey, while that might work for some people, that's just not my jam. With my partner. I don't understand the, hey, if we're going to be in a relationship, I need you to leave for three weeks, a month. It's like, okay, then we're not in a relationship. So she's given those vibes of just like, hey, telling me that you want to be with me or holding my hand or us having an intimate dinner together. That's not needy, bro.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

That's.

[Will Friedle]

That's just part of a relationship. So something's going on.

[Ryder Strong]

You're clearly a golden retriever, not a black cat.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, I'm a black black retriever.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. No, she. I mean, it seems extreme to me, too.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But I, you know, he's. He's so sensitive to it. Like, he says in this scene, you know, I want to respect your alone time. I don't want to be a needy guy. So he is, like, he's trying.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, but it's like I put. I put people like this. And it's not just her. It's all people like this in the same kind of category. I do dudes that get married but still need to sleep around a lot. It's like, if, you know, you're that guy, just don't get married.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it's.

[Will Friedle]

Nobody's gonna judge you for being the single guy for your entire life, sleeping around. If that's what you want to do, fine, but don't. Then get married and then go do it. So it's like, if you need your alone time all the time, don't get married. Don't be in a relationship.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

It's really easy. But don't then jump into a relationship or a marriage or this experiment and then be like, by the way, I need you to not be anywhere near me.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, that's what's so interesting about this show in general is that you have to have. It's all about the institution. Right. And it's like. It's. It's like the struggle with the institution of marriage and what people are bringing as their expectation to the institute. Because. Because they didn't know who they were getting, so they couldn't, you know, you didn't pick the person and then decide on the institution. The institution was decided upon. I want to be married.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And now they get to discover what that actually means with the person. And it's so fat. It's like so backwards, you know? But yeah, and it is very conservative. Right. Because that's like, you know, you have arranged marriages because culturally, your parents or whatever say marriage will be good for you.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And therefore we're gonna pick the person to sort of pressure you into the situation that hopefully you want. But yeah, the people that choose to be on this show, it's. It's a fascinating thing.

[Will Friedle]

You could also argue that they, on paper, are actually a pretty great couple in that he's a professional rugby player on the road playing all the time, and she wants to be left alone. The problem is he wants her to come. He's like, no, I want you to be with me when I'm on the road. That's what I. That's what I'd like.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, what she says in her confessional right here is that she says she just wants a relationship that is easy and this is the type of relationship she hates. And I'm like, you mean one with another person?

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, exactly to your point, it's like, what did you think marriage was? Or what do you. I mean, what is your past relationship? What have they been? Like, where you're literally like, always alone or not needing to show with somebody who doesn't need anything. Like, that's like a non relationship, you know, like if somebody doesn't need anything anyway. But she's affected by it. She is crying, you know, so it's interesting that she's emotional about it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know. In a weird way, I'm optimistic because he's not stomping his feet and saying, like, I deserve this. He's trying really hard. And I think that that is gonna go a long way, because if I think if he makes the effort to, like, take a step Back and to give her space, you know, they might be able to meet in the middle. Like she might be able to come to him. Maybe.

[Will Friedle]

I hope so because I mean, it sounds like an awful thing to say. I hope so for him because I really like him and at this point I'm not Team Caitlyn. That's not to say I won't get there, but at this point I feel like he's trying and wants a regular relationship. And when your partner is like, we have a plant. Ew. I know. That's when I'd be like, okay.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. Then we get into some of the expert sessions with Paul and Lisa. Dr. Paz. What?

[Will Friedle]

Love them. Love the. Love the experts.

[Ryder Strong]

I do.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Really?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

He strikes me as a little. I don't know what the word is. Like he seems put on.

[Will Friedle]

You think? Like it's like he's affected maybe.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. I feel like he's too composed. Like he's a little too, like he looks too good to me. Like he's just so, like. And I just feel like he's planned everything and it. And I want a little more spontaneity for him. Maybe I'm a over reading it, you know, but she, I like the way she is with the couples. And we haven't seen him as much with the couples. We've seen her with the couples.

[Will Friedle]

Stunning, by the way. Yeah, Yeah, I think she's. Yeah, I think she's stunning. A bit of a Crush on, on

[Ryder Strong]

Dr. Lisa, but she, she seems more relaxed. He's just not relaxed to me, you know? Anyway, they get into Nick and Courtney's session and they are feeling compatible but not intimate. No kissing. He is simply not sure if she's attracted to him. She's not comfortable. She talks about how he tried to. And she's aware of it because he talks about. She talks about how he tried to cuddle with her on their honeymoon and she just laid there.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Pepe Le Pew.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

With the cat.

[Will Friedle]

I do the unfortunate Pepe Le Pew, the poor cat.

[Ryder Strong]

And he would just be like, come on, my darling.

[Charity Lawson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So she. Dr. Paz asks, Are there any turn offs? And Courtney says, he's not a handy guy. This. Too bad. Like I'm right. But then, you know, she just kind of goes off. She's spinning, man. Like, Courtney's spinning out.

[Will Friedle]

She's got lots of red flags.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Well, she's just like, it's this. And then I think if you touch me this long, then it means maybe that. And I, it's like, oh, wow, she spirals quickly.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And it's like she's kind of in her head and.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, they. What? They all agree. All three of them agree that they're the. This sort of flirty, light spark isn't there. And so Lisa recommends touching, grabbing cheeks, trying to neutralize Courtney's fears of, you know, physical intimacy. And this is.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

It just does seem like for. Because they got married first before they could have any sort of physical affection for one another. It seems like the equation that Courtney's making, which is that, like, if I'm sharing physical affection with my husband, it. It's basically going to lead right to sex with a stranger. Yes. I mean, that. That is kind of the truth, but not necessarily. Like, the point of this whole thing is that you have to just try, you know? But she's terrified of, like, kind of being forced to have sex with a stranger, which is totally understandable. Of course.

[Will Friedle]

It's like. But again, you can. There's so many ways of being intimate that have nothing to do with sex.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

But she is, you know, because of the commitment that they've made to each other. This is where, like, the conceit of the show, I'm just like, oh, I can see, you know, between, like, with her and with Tori, with Felipe, too.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

They.

[Ryder Strong]

They're having a sort of, like, pretty rational, fearful reaction to.

[Will Friedle]

Sure.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, intense intimacy with somebody that they've only known a few days on camera.

[Will Friedle]

And then on camera.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly, exactly. So but it's also kind of like what. That is kind of what you signed up for, and you're going to have to. I don't know. It's a weird. It's a weird aspect of the show that, like. Yeah, I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know if it would be different in, like, real arranged marriage situations. Like, I wonder how they work that out.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I mean, you know, back in the days of royalty, they would arrange the marriage, you'd have the marriage, and then they'd literally sit in the marital bed naked with an entire group of people around them watching them consummate. So it's not.

[Ryder Strong]

Or they have to show the sheet, the sheets afterwards to, like, prove that they did it. Yeah.

[Charity Lawson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like, really? Maybe that's whatever age marriages, like, you have to sleep together. All right, let's do Married at First Sight maps. But you also have to. You have to. Because then it kind of gets it over. Because it does seem like Adam and Marissa got it over with. You know, you got the job done. And then it's like, it. Allow it, like, releases some of the tension, you know, because they're vibing. I mean, they're vibing, but. But like all the rest of them, they don't even have a chance to vibe.

[Will Friedle]

I know. Maybe.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe that's it. We gotta. Gotta make that part of the show next season. You do. I do. Now go have sex.

[Will Friedle]

Now go. Now go in the back room.

[Danielle Fishel]

Foreign.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

It's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. There's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me, and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Glen Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment from kqed. Every week, snap drops you inside someone's biggest decision. The kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line, what do you believe? What do you want? And what would you risk to get it? Find out. Snap Judgment. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast.

[Charity Lawson]

This is Charity Lawson from Bachelor Happy Hour.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Charity, I was thinking about this the other day. What's something that you'll always say yes to?

[Charity Lawson]

That's easy. Seeing my friends Last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Same. And somehow every one of these memories comes with something to plan.

[Charity Lawson]

That's so true.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you manage your money without taking away from the moments that matter.

[Charity Lawson]

Exactly. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place. Klarna helps you feel more confident making everyday money decision decisions.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Because when you have the right tools, everything feels more manageable.

[Charity Lawson]

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

California Resident loans made or arranged pursuant to California finance law license NMLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

This summer there are 250 reasons to

[Ryder Strong]

join T Mobile Girls Trip books and

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

switching to T Mobile help make it

happen with experience beyond switch and get $100 back plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That's $750 in your first year guaranteed.

And honestly that hundred dollars back, I'm putting it towards the zipline now.

That's how you do summer.

Exactly. Best switch I ever made.

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons. Find yours

Savings based on the value of benefits included with experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic and DashPass on US benefits may require activation. See plan for details. Get 100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported, no cash access and expires in six months. Issued by Sunrise Banks and AMEF FDIC. Allow eight weeks.

All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Mecca has going, is going off to work in the morning, says he gave her a kiss. Then we get to see them cooking together and they're flirting but she is now backing off because she's saying she's not going to chase her man. And they talk about their relationship history. I thought there was a really cute scene with him cooking the food mood.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, they're also just a stunning couple together. Oh yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

They're so like, yeah, if you were to cast a couple for a TV show, they're the ones.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And they both discuss missing their parents. You know, like she never had a relationship with her dad at all and she would post on social media every Father's Day. And then when she finally met him at the age of 20, he needed the DNA test. This is rough, man. This is the kind of stuff you just see haunt. And we went through this within the city like with Kenny. It's like, like these wounds just don't go away, you know, and she, she knows it like she says it perfectly. She's like, we're not going to heal each other's wounds but we can soothe them. So I, I think it's cool that both of them are so aware of this because I feel like people I know that didn't have a parent, you know, it could linger until their 30s and 40s. Like they wouldn't be able to talk about it or even acknowledge that they wanted it. So this is cool that these two are both like. Like, oh, where, like, we have daddy issues. I have daddy issues. You have mommy issues. Like, yeah. Like, this is a thing, you know?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Let's work through it together. Yeah, like that.

[Ryder Strong]

But then he laughs and says this thing about, like, oh, I've been matched with my best friend, which maybe is.

[Will Friedle]

It could be a good thing, but. Yeah, but they're.

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Tori and Felipe go wine tasting. She says they're yin and yang. And she says it's hard to be transparent. She doesn't want to share when she goes through hard things. And she opens up about the fact that her mom had cancer, which he. I thought was super sensitive and, well, you know, reacted well to. He's receptive. And so it's interesting to see how, like, they. They were vibing pretty, you know, but she has been holding back. Like, we're seeing that she was holding back in ways that she wasn't being completely transparent, but sure she is. And then she opens up about her charcuterie board Instagram, which is funny.

[Will Friedle]

This whole bit was great.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And then Devon and Caitlyn are in session with Dr. Paz, and they discuss the. The. The gym morning incident. Caitlyn feels like she is the villain. Lisa tells Devon that less is more. And then when he says, like, a very specific thing that he likes eye contact, she really can't do it.

[Will Friedle]

She can't even look at him. She can't look at him.

[Ryder Strong]

But then when she's asked if she's attracted, Caitlyn's, like, super quick to say, yeah, so. So Lisa's advice is, yes, you guys have just met. It's only been a few. So, like, just work on as if you're dating each other, which is, you know, the weird backwards way that this whole thing goes.

[Will Friedle]

I just realized, just with her name, that if Dr. Lisa ever wanted to do another job, she should open a marijuana store and call it the Paz dispensary.

[Ryder Strong]

Hey, be great.

[Glen Washington]

Love it.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, God.

[Ryder Strong]

Nikki and Sean are getting ready for bed.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Bed.

[Ryder Strong]

He's washing himself with a washcloth while she removes his makeup.

[Will Friedle]

He does a. What he does the fastest.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, oh, you're on her side about this stuff, aren't you?

[Will Friedle]

Hell, yes. Oh, my God, yes. Go bathe before you get into my bed. He, like, why? He wipes himself down with a towel he found in the ground of a gas station.

[Ryder Strong]

She's got a whole process by the Time she gets into bed, man, she just, she's like, so did you wash all the parts?

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

She just has the ick.

[Will Friedle]

So, yeah, he's like, no, I just, I do a quick wipe down. Like, I do a quick whores bath and I'm in. It's like, dude, you can't go wash yourself. I'm, I'm very much a hygiene person too. So. Yeah, I don't, I don't.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I guess, like, here's the thing. Like, I, I'm not super judgy one way or the other, but he's clearly just not picking up from her. Like, she, he could pick it up and be like, you know what, what? If you like me to be a little cleaner, I'll take a 20 minute shower.

[Will Friedle]

Like, yeah, because it's not a five minute shower.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it's not that bad. I know he's, he's not picking up the vibes. Like, he's just, he's like, keep. Kind of keeps bragging about how little he does. I just get the job done with three minutes.

[Will Friedle]

Also, did he use the same washcloth on his face that he did on his junk? Like, did he just washcloth everything down and call it a day? Like, then did you use it again to brush your teeth? Like, come on, bro.

[Ryder Strong]

See, I'm not that judgy. I'm like, fine. If somebody doesn't take a shower like every day, I'm like, Or even like, I'm fine with days, man. It doesn't bother me. Oh yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Oh no. I like, I like a nice clean body.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

For yourself. You also demanded of your partner. No, no, I get, but that's what we're talking about though.

[Will Friedle]

Like, but I also probably couldn't be with somebody who would go days without showering. I would just know that right away. And it's not like I wouldn't try to change that person. Hey, you need to start showering all the time. I would just be like, this isn't my person. Because I know my person might not be fanatical about it, but also wants to be clean. Like, I just know that's, that's my person. So instead of trying to change a person, that's why I was single for so long. I never wanted to change people to become what I wanted them to be. I just waited to find the person that was my person. And then when I did, I didn't have to change. That was the joy.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

So I, I mean, I, I just, I would know if I'm, if I'm with somebody's like, I shower once a month. I'd be like, okay, then we're just not to going to. I'm not going to try to change you. We're just not supposed to be together.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I wonder. I mean, for Alex, like, she can't handle smells at all. So like no cologne? No.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, even good smells?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, no, just any. Like, she is so sensitive.

[Will Friedle]

What about cooking? Like, does she like walking? It's like a garlic kind of.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, but, but no but like perfume or like any of that stuff. And so, so funny. Even on this trip. I left my toiletry kit at, at my parents house when we started off on this road trip. So I haven't had deodorant and I ordered some deodorant to meet us on the road, you know, so I had some and she was like last night she was like, you know, you know, I don't think you need it. And I was like, really? She's like, yeah. And I was like, that's super interesting.

[Will Friedle]

Like, well, you know, I barely wear deodorant. I wear almost no deodorant, but it's because I shave my pits so I don't need. I have no hair under my arm, so I don't need deodorant. Like everybody.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah, that's.

[Ryder Strong]

That's strange to me.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, see, no, it's the. Oh, it's the best. It's just something you don't have to

[Ryder Strong]

worry about stubble on your.

[Will Friedle]

No, you don't. You keep it like in the shower. You run a blade over it every

[Ryder Strong]

time you take a shower?

[Will Friedle]

No, every two, three days. That's it. And I never have to wear it because of all the stuff I've read about, the stuff that's in, in deodorant and then if you even get the natural stuff, then it just doesn't work where if I just shave my pits, I don't need to wear anything and I don't sweat.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

So it's great.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alex wouldn't, wouldn't handle me with shape.

[Will Friedle]

But she also, Alex. I mean, I know Alex well enough to know that Alex likes more of kind of a rugged guy. Like she likes the. Your natural pheromones and hairy is good. And I'll be in the woods and you smell like campfire. Like all that stuff is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I was surprised. I was like, because I only use natural deodorant. Like I don't do, you know?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, but I was like, really? Even deodorant. She's like, yeah, you're probably fine. And I was like, oh, maybe there's one less thing to worry about.

[Glen Washington]

I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

It's great. Maybe I'll have to pull my friends when we hang out. You tell me if I smell and then. Okay, fair enough. So it's not just. I'm not just making the decision based on her.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, just. Just change, wash washcloths. That's all I ask. From your face to your junk. That's all I ask.

[Ryder Strong]

Tori and Felipe are moving in with her dog into their apartment. And then we get this like hidden camera thing of them making out of the couch, which made me very uncomfortable to watch. I kind of felt like I was like I had stumbled on the wrong website. Do you know what I mean? I was like, it's a hidden camera. It was like a hidden camera in the corner and they're like making out on the. I know, but I feel like they're. They like. He was like getting on top of her. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Am I allowed to see this? He felt invasive. Do you know what I mean? I was like.

[Will Friedle]

It actually made me feel a little better about everything because it makes me realize that obviously there isn't hidden cameras

[Ryder Strong]

in their bedroom because then they went to the right, right?

[Will Friedle]

So it's like, obviously a camera crew comes in and films them in their bedroom, but the, when the camera crew leaves, they're like, we left one in the living room in case you guys get into a fight or something. Because it's happened. There's been been. There's been previous seasons that are only

[Ryder Strong]

on a hidden camera or like somebody,

[Will Friedle]

somebody will come back at 3 o' clock in the morning and the other person be like, where the hell have you been? Like that kind of thing.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, obviously the reason they're doing this is to set up what, what happens next, which is that she comes back after they have sex and sleeps on the couch because of this, what she calls a strong dose of flight. And, And I do, I do think I, I see the story value in that and like. But it just made me like, oh, I feel, I mean, the whole thing about this show, it is weird how much it ends up being about sex, you know, Like, I mean, a lot of society is. I mean, that's the thing.

[Will Friedle]

And you, you wonder how many of these people have, you know, you have some, some of them that are. But that have clearly said, I've never had a one night stand in my life. I'm one of those people. I've never had a one night stand in my life. So I get that feeling.

[Ryder Strong]

You've never had a one night stand in your life?

[Will Friedle]

No, I've never had a one night stand in my life.

[Ryder Strong]

Good for you. Actually, I think that's a healthy thing.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. So it, it's, it's one of those things where I now I've known somebody for years and then one night we'll hook up.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. But you didn't like meet somebody, never happened to have a one night stand and then never talk to him again or whatever? Never happened?

[Will Friedle]

No, never happened to me in my life. And some people are okay with that and no judgment and some people aren't. So you wonder if there is no marriage involved. I mean, we've heard clearly some of the people on the show that are like, I've never had a one night stand. And then there's other people that are probably like, yeah, it's no big deal. And now he's, he's my husband or she's wife. So, you know, like Adam and you know, Adam clearly didn't have a, have a problem with it the first night.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So you get, you get those couples.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I mean, I've had one night stands and they're never good. Like, they're never worth, you know, and it's so funny because I feel like everyone says that at a certain age. Everyone sort of says that you just realize like, I don't know if that's fun or worth it, you know, like, yeah, like even people that have done it for years, like where they're like, oh, yeah, I spent my 20s having one night stand fans never, they're, they're rarely like, that was a great time. It's usually like, I was kind of sad and desperate and drunk a lot of the time or whatever. You know, it was like, it was like it was a pattern that they were kind of caught in and that they actually didn't get much out of it. I don't know. Or maybe you gained some confidence. Maybe you're like, you know, much more, you know, like I said, I've only done it a few times. And every time I'm like, I don't think that's worth it. Like, I'm much more of a monogamist.

[Glen Washington]

Foreign.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

It's Cal Penn, the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week I'm sitting down with author Matt Dinnaman and narrator Jeff A's to talk about dungeon crawler Carl Matt had one line in a notebook from middle school Alien game show. It took him until 2019 to finally write it, but what came out was an out of this world audiobook phenomenon. We talked about that origin. A talking cat with a charisma stat that breaks the game and what it takes to voice an entire world.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Fiction is bull, so you gotta trick me into caring about what you're talking about. And that's always what I have thought of as my job. So as a narrator I always want to keep you engaged by making you feel as if I care as a narrator. And when I do dialogue, I don't want to tell you what the characters are saying. I want you to hear firsthand.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Glen Washington]

I'm Gwen Washington from Snap Judgment, the storytelling podcast from kqed. Imagine an iconic piece of paradise overrun by one of the most horrific fires in recent memory. Everyone flees. Everyone except one person who decides to fight the flames. All systems down. The moment when nature, institutions and technology fails at the exact same time. A new Snapchat miniseries from kqed. Wherever you get your podcasts, this is

[Charity Lawson]

Charity Lawson from Bachelor Happy Hour.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Charity, I was thinking about this the other day. What's something that you'll always say yes to?

[Charity Lawson]

That's easy. Seeing my friends last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Same. And somehow every one of these memories comes with something to plan.

[Charity Lawson]

That's so true.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you manage your money without taking away from the moments that matter.

[Charity Lawson]

Exactly. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place, Klarna helps you feel more confident making everyday money decisions.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Because when you have the right tools, everything feels more manageable.

[Charity Lawson]

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353 Clarina Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

This summer there are 250 reasons to

[Ryder Strong]

join T Mobile Girls Trip booked and

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

switching to T Mobile Help make it

happen with experience beyond switch and get $100 back plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That's $750 dollars in your first year guaranteed.

And honestly, that hundred dollars back I'm putting it towards the zipline now.

That's how you do summer?

Exactly. Best switch I ever made.

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons. Find yours.

Savings based on the value of benefits included with experience. Experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic and Dash Pass on US benefits may require activation C plan. For details, get 100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported, no cash access and expires in six months. Issued by Sunrise Banks and a member FDIC. Allow eight weeks.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. Episode 7 Adam and Marissa he's cooking some grilled cheese. Classy meal.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Cheese.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. No, this is a. I mean, these two are great together.

[Will Friedle]

I think so too.

[Ryder Strong]

It's interesting. I know it's interesting though, watching this scene. So they're. They talk about, you know, what if they would have dated in college? And, you know, he says, like, well, I've been wanting to get married since I was 18. And she says that, like, that's a good thing. She's like, oh, babe. Which is so funny because I would actually feel. Feel kind of the opposite.

[Will Friedle]

Really.

[Ryder Strong]

In other words. Well, in the sense that, like, he's basically saying I was looking for a person to fill a position in my life as opposed to I was waiting for a person to inspire me to want to get married. Do you know what I mean? Like, which is kind of like, look how I feel. You would say, like, you were. You weren't going to get married unless you found somebody that was worth marrying 100. Right. Whereas, like, he's saying, like, I always wanted to get married and lucky, you know, and. And it just made me realize that is this entire show, they're all kind of like that in this show. Like, this is a show.

[Will Friedle]

Well, that's about people that want to get married. Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

So people who believe in the institution first and foremost and they just want a partner that, like, they can pretzel into that institution. That's so, like, interesting, because I'm the same way. Like, I. I did like the idea of marriage, I think, in the abstract. Like, I always liked having a partner, let me put it that way. But, like, marriage was not something that was like, definitely gonna happen. You know, it was like, once I was in a relationship long enough and be like, oh, I think. I think we want to make this something else. Like, we want to. There's. There's another level to this that we can achieve. And then we jumped into the institution to try and achieve that, whatever that was going to be.

[Will Friedle]

I remember telling you, we were on the set of Girl Meets World for some reason, we were at dinner the night before. I was doing one at one of my episodes, and I had been with sue for, like, four or five years at this point. And I was like, you know, I'm thinking, I'm going to propose. And you were like, just do it. And I went, what? You're like, just do it. It's marriage. Just do it.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And I remember being like, like, okay.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Because I was. I had just gotten married, and I felt I was feeling really good about it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, you're like.

[Ryder Strong]

Like I was feeling. Yeah, No, I, I, I, I. I'm a pretty. I'm a big proselytizer for people to just, like, go for it. Especially when you guys, you had been together for, at that point, a while. Yeah, almost five years. So happy.

[Will Friedle]

We've been together five years before we got married.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. But you had already dated before that, too. Like, it just seemed obvious to me that you were so happy. It was like, just do it. Don't overthink this. This didn't do it. He pours wine for her, and she's slightly insecure about drinking, but Adam doesn't seem to mind this. I thought this was a big red flag when they were first, you know, when she handed the. When she gave him the fireball thing. And he's like, oh, drinking is going to be, you know. But he seems, like, totally cool with her drinking wine. He does.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

He seems.

[Ryder Strong]

He's.

[Will Friedle]

He's as much of a bro and, like, a dude. And, like, if he says vibing one more time, I'm going to find out where he lives just so I can get on my tiptoes to slap him in the knee because he's so much bigger than me.

[Glen Washington]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

Other than that, he seems like he's actually a pretty stable guy.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Who's like, yeah, all right.

[Will Friedle]

I don't drink. Go ahead, drink. Do what you got to. Like.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

They sit down and have a conversation about their transparency. And he says this interesting thing. He says there are times when they say something and you are so nice, and I'm afraid you're just going with the flow. And I think he's talking about the producers at that moment.

[Will Friedle]

Really?

[Ryder Strong]

They. Yeah, because he's like. He's basically feeling her out for, like, are you just going along with, like, me?

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, like. But he doesn't say. Whenever I'm. Sometimes I suggest something, and you just agree with me. He says, sometimes they suggest something, and I'm like, oh. So the producers are such. I know, it was a weird like slip that I was like, so they are kind of producing them hanging out, like, why don't you guys go over here and sit down and have dinner and talk? And he. I don't know, it was. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much in it. But he said the word they and I was like, so how much are they producing in these situations? I don't know. It's interesting to me.

[Will Friedle]

It's very interesting. But hey, they'll jet ski and everything will be fine.

[Ryder Strong]

Now we get into an evening where all the couples are going to have dinner together. We see everybody getting ready. I thought it was funny how everybody was excited for the tea to be spilled. Like they all were expecting drama. None of them were talking about how they might be the drama.

[Will Friedle]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

You know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

Also, this is the, the closest all of the couples seemed as they were getting ready to go hear how all of the other couples weren't getting together.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And so it was like, wow. It's interesting how common enemies always bring. To bring people together.

[Ryder Strong]

Remember they talked about that on in the City. I forget who it was. He said it on in the City. It was such a. It was like nothing brings people together than talking about someone else.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And that's what this whole thing was. The closest I'd ever seen them all together is like true. Like, we're getting ready for this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep. Before they go, Courtney and Nick have this long scene where she's curling her hair or and this, you know. Yeah. Cuz he really. I thought he was being really sensitive and like wanted to hear about her previous relationships. And she admits that like she hasn't had a good sexual side of any of her relationship. So it's like, okay, so this isn't just a Nick thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, it wasn't just about this relationship. And then she says that she was cheated on and she let it happen, which is news. I love where she goes, love is blind. And he goes, that's Netflix.

[Will Friedle]

That's Netflix.

[Ryder Strong]

My favorite line.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But it's also the thing that was really kind of red flaggy to me is that he was sitting there and he was like, so in your previous relationship of a year with intimacy? And she's like, I'm not gonna make you wait a year to have sex. And it was like, I wanted him to be like, that's not what I was saying at all.

[Ryder Strong]

I know he's clearly asking for just affection and also.

[Will Friedle]

But just like, what's your timeline for that affection? I mean, is kissing okay? Is rubbing your shoulder? She instantly went to. I'm not gonna make you wait for a year to have sex. And it's like, wow, that. Oh, she's got. That's where I'm meant. That's where I really started to be like, no, she's not ready for this. She's got a lot of stuff she needs to work out with herself before she can do this in a relationship.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, she says it. She says she, she, you know, in her confessional right here, she says she's coming in with baggage.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which I think is just. It's true. And it's, it's interesting that she didn't realize that, you know, like, she presented herself as so ready to get married and, like, hungry for this exact situation. You know, she was so confident and clear in her interviews in the beginning, you know, that I was. I'm surprised by how, how little she knows herself.

[Unknown Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But I guess that's what this, this all is, you know, it's like, so some people are so good at presenting a version of themselves, and then it's not them, you know, it's not who they are.

[Will Friedle]

It's also interesting in being. Coming from a family where the physical, your physical appearance was so important. I mean, they were all like professional bodybuilders. So it's like how you look on the outside mattered a lot more. It seemed like was going on with you inside.

[Ryder Strong]

You're right. And she's commented multiple times about how good looking the men are. And she's always talking about looks in this, in this show because it's, It's. You're right. She's. And it's funny because she, because she said in her first interview, in the first episode, she said she didn't want a bodybuilder because she doesn't want somebody who's like, obsessed with the. The looks the same way that she kind of grew up in.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And yet I think she is kind of. I mean, it's just conditioning.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

It's just.

[Will Friedle]

Well, again, if you. It's. It's something. It's almost like an eating disorder, meaning it's something you can control. You can go to the gym, you can figure out what you're doing, you can make your body look amazing. And then maybe people won't notice that inside you're broken because the outside looks amazing. And I think it's that a little bit with her.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So then we find out that Paul and Lisa are watching on Cameras. The experts are hovering over this whole dinner, which is super interesting. They don't. And the. The couples don't know that they're there.

[Will Friedle]

It started like that Eminem song. Hey, can you lift up my snare? I got no snare in my headphones. It's like, crank up. Crank up our earpieces. Thank you. And it was like, oh, God, here we go.

[Ryder Strong]

Paul immediately questions Adam's Hawaiian outfit and his crazy hat, which I thought was an interesting insight. And Paul says, this is how Adam moves to take control by any means necessary. Like, here's my jet ski. Here's my outfit. And I was, like, insightful.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Paul.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, that's a good point. Like, because.

[Will Friedle]

And I don't.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, it's interesting because he doesn't. Wasn't he. I think Paul meant it kind of as a criticism, but I also just was like, yeah, but it's okay. Like, I don't think Adam's dominating the rest of the dinner. In other words, like.

[Will Friedle]

No. I think he's peacocking for everybody else, where it's like, you. I want to make sure that you talk about my outfit. Everyone's gonna mention my outfit. Everybody's gonna talk about me, and at

[Ryder Strong]

least everyone's gonna acknowledge that we had sex already and that we're doing. We're vibing.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

It's. I'm really curious where they're gonna end up in, like, you know, three weeks in or whatever.

[Will Friedle]

This, to me, is going to be the couple that. Because the looks matter to him so much, that they're gonna stay together after the show ends, and you're gonna read a month later that they've broken up.

[Ryder Strong]

Really?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. That's my call for them. Totally.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm. I'm. I've been so surprised by how they're vibing that I wouldn't be surprised if they can make it work.

[Will Friedle]

Maybe. I hope I'm wrong. Love to see an actual love couple come out of this. That'd be great.

[Glen Washington]

Great.

[Ryder Strong]

Belle and Mecca arrive looking fantastic. Peaches and cream style, as they say. Devon and Caitlyn arrive. They do seem happier.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

A little.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, a little more.

[Will Friedle]

Put it on for everybody else, though.

[Ryder Strong]

Nick and Courtney show up and decide to hold hands as they walk in. And then it gets dropped super quick.

[Will Friedle]

Instantly.

[Ryder Strong]

Instantly drops. And then Nikki shows up alone. She says that Sean had a work thing. The experts say they think that means scenes. They had a fight, and we're not sure if he's going to show up. And then Nikki talks about how they went on a double date with Mecca and Beljo Lee. We get a little, little glimpse of that double date, and apparently there was some conflict. And Nikki says they're stuck on Repeat. Felipe tells Nick 99 positive, but Tori is a little guarded. Cameron and Michelle arrive looking relaxed and into each other. As Paul says, Sean shows up. He says hi to the men, not to Nikki. Presumably, he does eventually say hi to Nikki. Yeah. Tori and Michelle bond over avoidant styles. Tori is being avoidant, whereas Michelle thinks Cameron is. Everyone's just kind of getting to know each other. And then we sit down. Tori leads them in a prayer. I thought this was interesting, like, why Adam suggested Tori lead them in a prayer. And this is where I was like, are the producers. Because the producers know that Torey and Felipe had this religious conversation. Like, are the producers egging Adam on a little bit? Are they producing him and saying, hey, why don't you suggest that, Torrey? You know, like, I wonder if they set this, planted that to try and create a conflict that doesn't end up existing because Felipe doesn't seem to care, but he has said that he's an atheist to her. And so I just found it weird that of all the people to, like, lead a prayer before dinner, Adam asks Tori to do it. Do you know what? It was a little. I was like, okay. But then the experts point out that Tori and Felipe are the unifiers of the group because they're, you know, the sort of hosts. And they do. They do that. You know, they do this like,

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

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[Ryder Strong]

Adam and Marissa brag about their awesome vibing cool situation and just cruising along. Courtney presses them a little bit. You know the experts seem like they're happy, but everyone, everyone kind of pushes on them like that they don't have serious conversations. I don't know if they need to. I don't know, man. Like, I'm kind of like, I'm team Adam and Marissa.

[Will Friedle]

Can I tell you what I really, really liked about this, though? I liked about. So one of the things we talked about was. Is the idea of. One of the things that made us so uncomfortable about in the City for the reunion is Andy Cohen sitting there and asking these questions and drilling them. And drilling them. Whereas this had the same kind of vibe of a reunion episode. But they were just talking to each other.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

There weren't experts there. There weren't. Hey, well, you said this to blah, blah, blah. It was like they just had a meal, and they brought up all their own shit. And while it kind of had the same vibe, it. It felt like a little less of an inquisition than in the City did.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So I liked that, that it was just them talking and their experts are there, but they're watching quietly. They're not interjecting. They're not. You know, it's just them talking around the nerd.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. It's so much like, again, it's so much about self presentation. Right. Like, these couples get to present their couple to the rest. To the other couple.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

And in that presentation, discover things. Things and. And push back on, you know, each other. But it's. It's nice because when they push back, it's from an equal place.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, they're all. They're all undergoing the same experiment. So there's not like. It's not like you're winning or losing necessarily. Maybe it'll get there. But right now it feels like they're all kind of trying to be supportive of each other as coupling, you know, because they're all equal. They're all, like, thrown into this kind of crazy together.

[Will Friedle]

But don't you think they also. Also some of them at least want to look like. Like it seemed like some of them were putting it on.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, Adam and Marissa want to win, right?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, Adam's gonna win.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

The coupling thing. But, yeah, he kind of also is. Like, because you've seen them in their dinner, like, they are working well together.

[Will Friedle]

I agree. They're affectionate. They're fun. They're enjoying each other's company. I mean, he might be. He might be douching it up a bit for the cameras, but it also kind of seems like the healthiest relationship that's there.

[Glen Washington]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, and everybody's pushing it back. And then in a later confessional, Nick and Courtney, Nick is saying why he was pressuring Adam because he was hoping that maybe they would talk about having more thoughtful conversations. And then Courtney bursts out with, he might not have to be that thoughtful. When Adam's the hottest of the whole

[Will Friedle]

group, she's one red flag after another.

[Ryder Strong]

That's a wild comment. And then she kind of backpedals and realizes what she's says. And, you know, she's like, I just dug myself a hole.

[Will Friedle]

But she's, like, passive aggressively, she's like, oh, I guess I just dug myself a hole.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Is that how you read it?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, totally read it that way. Like, I can't believe you'd be bothered by me saying somebody else is hotter than you. And it's like, right, just reverse the situation. What if I said the same? Hey, well, that. That woman's by far the hottest at the table. You feel, like a little bit.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? And it was also in the context of he doesn't have to be thoughtful. Like, so, yeah, he can get away with, like, just. Just being less thoughtful because he's so hot. It goes back to what you were saying. I think she's a little, like, into the looks, like. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Well, but it's also. She's now mentioned how she's. So. She's also a comparison chopper.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So she.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Oh, my God.

[Ryder Strong]

The way she talks to Felipe.

[Will Friedle]

And he's the man. He can walk in and control the thing. Adam's the hottest one here to me, and this is. I liked her. She was, like, my favorite one. And I, you know, I think she's probably a good person, but this woman is broken. I mean, she's there.

[Ryder Strong]

She's not ready for Red flag after.

[Will Friedle]

No, she is not ready for this at all. So, yeah, that was. That was amazing to me how much I changed my opinion on her as I was watching. And I just started to feel at first, it was like, this guy just wants to be on a reality show. He's not going to care about this at all. He's going to give the minimal. And now I'm like, I feel like this guy's actually trying, and they just put her with. Put him with somebody who's not ready for the situation at all.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, so she starts talking about their relationship at the table, and the experts weigh in on her body language because she is completely turned away from Nick, which speaks volumes. He's like, no matter what's coming out of her mouth, you just see her body language. And then Felipe asks Nick, how does it feel to be rejected by your Wife, which is a bit harsh, but also maybe accurate. And then Nick has this nice little speech where he talks about how even though she's not being affectionate with him, he sees her doing these kind things and he gets glimpses of. Of potential in her and how, you know, he. Courtney talks then about how she's a slow burn, which is what she's been saying.

[Will Friedle]

She keeps saying that.

[Ryder Strong]

And then Sean jumps in with his. Like, you're a high performance athlete. You train for that. Maybe just look at this. Like you're training, like, may you. You do the physical things that you're. And just, you know, which I thought was not horrible advice. It's a little intense, but it's kind of the same thing that the experts were saying, which is like, just start doing it and feeling it out and then, like, it'll happen naturally. Right?

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And then Nick talks about how comfortable he is and confident. But then Courtney contradicts that and says, I don't know if. If Nick is comfortable with who he is. And I just love how in the confessional, then he's like, that's crazy. He's like, of all the things people think, I'm cocky, I'm too confident.

[Will Friedle]

Like, she's just projecting. She's completely projecting all of her insecurities on somebody else.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Yeah. Or my take maybe is that she just kind of wants to get out of this.

[Will Friedle]

That's the other thing.

[Ryder Strong]

And like, one way to do that is to undermine him in front of everybody. Do you know what I mean? Like, she can just. Cuz like to sit there and talk about Adam being hot and to call him insecure or that he's not confident. It's like she's just kind of pulling the rug out from under Nick. And it's like he. I don't know if he's doing anything wrong here. Like, he's working and he's actually pretty comfortable. So I feel like maybe she just kind of wants out and she's just. Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And it's also. I think this is where she has the conversation at some point. I think it's before the dinner with Caitlyn. Is this the one where she's like, I hate. Oh, God, I hate those in depth conversations.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And again.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

And.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm like, you don't want to talk? You don't want to. You don't want to touch? What the hell are you doing here?

[Ryder Strong]

Doing here?

[Will Friedle]

So.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Glen Washington]

It doesn't.

[Will Friedle]

Doesn't make any sense.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Glen Washington]

All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Then Courtney spreads it out to the whole group and talks about how. I'm not quite sure what she was saying about all the men and how they all need to be more confident or something. And then Marissa steps in and says, like, well, there's a difference between vulnerable and confident. This is where I was just like, marissa, you got some insight. And Mecca loves this. Like, this is a revelatory moment for him, which I was like, interesting that he had never really thought about this before, that he can, like, be super confident with his bros, but he can't be vulnerable with them, which is like.

[Charity Lawson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But at least he's acknowledging it. So I thought it was good for him. Mecca makes a big performance about seeing her backside, talking about what she's carrying, which I thought was, like, him overdoing it. Yeah. Like, they definitely. The experts called this out.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And what is interesting, that he feels the need to do this because she immediately then points out, like, they haven't been intimate and that he's kind of not. Not been attracted to her, which I thought was interesting.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

He was.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think he was prepared to admit that. Like, I don't think he was, like, gonna say any of that. And she sort of like. And it was funny because he's talking about being sensitive and, like, how he's open, but she, like, talks about how he's really, like, not making the moves on her. And then, as Adam points out, you friend zoned her.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which I think he kind of has, like, yeah, super interesting.

[Will Friedle]

They seem to be very good friends that then are trying to perform for the rest of the table about how into each other that they are.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, totally. And now the fact that he went right to her. Her ass, basically, and was, like, talking about. It's like, dude, just. It's not happening. Like, why are you overplaying this right now?

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

And then Nikki has this moment that's an awful aside to hear where she turns to Sean and says, trying to figure out how to speak on this relationship without embarrassing you.

[Will Friedle]

And it's just another cut at this guy.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

Michelle and Cam Cameron talk about their relationship, how they're hitting it off. They point out how. The experts point out how Michelle's looking at him, does seem like they're doing well. And then Devin and Caitlyn present their relationship. Devin. I just. Man, he articulates this stuff so well.

[Will Friedle]

They even say that the experts are like, when did Devin become, like, the voice of reason of the inside?

[Ryder Strong]

He's great. Well, I think they just assumed he was a meathead. Because he, like, plays rugby or whatever.

[Will Friedle]

But he's not all.

[Ryder Strong]

He's incredibly sensitive. He's like, you know, and he's. He's also like, in a way that you see Shawn not able. He takes it to heart. Like, he's actually adjusted his behavior. Like, he's. He's saying, like, I am too needy or she thinks I'm too needy. I'm an instant gratification guy. I cannot get that. I'm not going to be that I need to work on us and not make this about me. Which I just wanted to like, have that on a loop for Nikki and Sean because it's like, that's their problem is that he also seems to be

[Will Friedle]

putting in the way.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Work.

[Ryder Strong]

He's putting in the work and he's saying, like, it's not going to be about me winning or proving that I'm the better person. I'm just going to adjust for you. And if you're think I'm needy, I'm going to try and not be needy. Just a little bit of that for Nikki and Sean would go so far. But it's the hardest thing to do. This is the hardest thing to do in the world.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Like in. Because in a way, it's just, it's. It's. This is a very basic way of saying it, but it's relinquishing power.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

And that's. You have to. It's not a.

[Ryder Strong]

You not.

[Will Friedle]

You're not trying to one up your partner.

[Ryder Strong]

It's.

[Will Friedle]

You're figuring it out as you go.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. So, yeah, Felipe and Tori are doing great. He says he's committed and in. Tori tells the table about how they were intimate, but then she slept on the couch.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, this is open to kind of like they. I know they probably have to talk about all this stuff, but that's.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Around a table of people. We had sex. And then.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, that's the thing. They all have to. It's so weird, like, to just have all these people. People like, oh, high five. And Adam and Marissa and who now. It's weird.

[Will Friedle]

Do you think you're allowed to say, like, I don't want to talk like, did you guys have sex? Yeah, we're not going to talk about it. I mean, do you think that the producers are there going like, no, you have to bring. You have to talk about it.

[Ryder Strong]

Question.

[Will Friedle]

You think they can just be like, no, we're not bringing it up.

[Ryder Strong]

I bet you they could draw the boundaries.

[Will Friedle]

I think so too. I would hope anyway.

[Ryder Strong]

But it is it seems built into the show, unfortunately.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, that's, I guess, the point.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, then Nikki and Shawn challenging couple of days. It's just brutal. Nikki says that Sean is framing me as the problem. Yeah, we just. It's tough. Devin is good. He jumps in, he says, like, both of you think there's. Right. There's too much ego and Damn. Like, at this point, the experts point out that Sean pulls out his phone while Devon is talking to him. And it's a real bummer because, like, this is exactly the advice that Sean needs. Needs.

[Glen Washington]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it sucks.

[Will Friedle]

The thing that was interesting about this, though, is also the fact that when Mecca and Belle went on a double date with them, they said, I gotta be honest, Nikki, we didn't see any accountability from you the entire night long. Like, they put it on her.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

After he pulls out his phone, I. I was like, oh, my God, this guy. And then they're like, wait, she's not taking any accountability.

[Ryder Strong]

I was concerned. I was weirded out by the editing because, like, after this dinner, she, you know, goes into him and says, like, you were being shitty.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

But he didn't actually talk in the edit. Like, you didn't see him talking at all? No, he just sort of, like, shut down while she talked. So I'm curious, like, what was edited out because. Or is she just really reading? Like.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Or she's pissed that when the other couple they were with was saying, you didn't take any accountability, you didn't do this, he didn't jump in and defend her. Maybe. Maybe, like, no, I was having a problem, too. I mean, something like that. But it seems like he just shut his mouth.

[Glen Washington]

Mouth.

[Will Friedle]

At least. You're right. They edited it to seem like he didn't say anything. And she really came off looking pretty terrible after that. That dinner, I thought, yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, but also, I mean, she's just not into it. Why do you want to keep arguing in circles with somebody who, like, is clearly, like, they're just not getting it? Like, they're not. Yeah, I agree.

[Will Friedle]

This. They just shouldn't be together. She has the. She got the ick the second she saw him, and it never went away.

[Ryder Strong]

Adam says. Or Adam asks them if they're just going to call it or why aren't they just calling it? And Sean says, nope, he's a committed man. Mecca chimes in saying, there's room and for love and growth. I don't know.

[Danielle Fishel]

No way.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. On the way out to the dinner, Nick and Courtney in the car in the Jetta, which I guess she doesn't think is a good enough car. Was that a joke? That was a joke. I didn't get it. But then she also railed into him for not opening the door. And he's like, I've opened a ton of doors for you.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So this is what I mean. I feel like she just wants out and she's, she's trying to make it like it's a him problem. When it's like, no, I don't think it is. Like he's really trying and I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

And then she makes again a comment about all the guys being good looking and whatever. Nikki and Sean, afterwards, she calls him out for being shitty. The way he presented himself.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Well,

[Ryder Strong]

he, this is where he says. He promises he's not going to fight anymore, but she says fighting is their marriage and she walks away. And I didn't know if this was it like I thought. I thought it was. Then they meet up in the kitchen.

[Will Friedle]

Y.

[Ryder Strong]

And then she wants to have a literal break. He says, maybe proximity is good, but they're not gonna. They're not gonna. I guess they're staying in the apartment together, but they're not gonna have conversations. And that ends this episode of Married at first sight.

[Will Friedle]

Are you out?

[Ryder Strong]

No, I'm. I wish this were like a movie documentary.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Where I kind of like could ingest like a three hour, you know, because the way that each episode has to like build up to a commercial break and like, it still has that reality show manipulation.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, the three act, three act arc.

[Ryder Strong]

But as a study of like, how people are, like this whole notion of getting married and then realizing what a relationship is is really fascinating. And I'm. And I am learning a lot. And I feel like I'm confronting things that, you know, I have to think about, like, yeah, what would I be? Like, what would my expectations be? What do I think? You know? But in general, I do feel like it's a. It's a pretty traditional show. I mean, that's the whole point. Marriage is a traditional institution.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So, like, yeah, it's. It's forcing me to think about a lot of things and be uncomfortable with. With conversations like the ones Nikki and Sean are having, which are just like, shitty. And I've been in those arguments, you know, Like, I've had those kinds of. Of long. And like, we're going in circles. We're all trying to be the right sailor and I hate it, so I hate reliving it.

[Will Friedle]

I know that's how I felt within the city because I'm so used to hanging out with my. All my rich friends in New York City when they're having babies and getting into fights. Very too close to home, Ryder.

[Ryder Strong]

Too close to home.

[Will Friedle]

We're going to do a very quick. What an arrangement. Hey, Angela. What an arrangement. And we're going to do today. Consuelo Vanderbilt. Yes. Of the Vanderbilt Vanderbilts. So she married Charles Spencer Churchill, the 9th Duke of Marlborough, on November 6, 1895 at St Thomas Church in New York City. And it was orchestrated all by the bride's mother, Alva Vanderbilt, and paired the American railroad heiress fortune with a British aristocratic title. The problem was he was broke, which was the only reason that he married her. And he used all the money to kind of. Of get back into the good graces of everything in England. Consuel, she was secretly in love with and engaged to Winthrop Rutherford, but her mother forced her to match great name. Winthrop Rutherford forced her to match, obviously with Vanderbilt because she wanted her to save her whole family. So she essentially said, if you go marry for love, you're going to destroy us, you're going to kill us. Put it all on her. The marriage was completely loveless from the start. The Duke reportedly confessed on their honeymoon. He only married her to save the ancestral estate state. They legally separated in 1906 and divorced in 1921. And then she happily remarried to a French aviator, Jacques Balson, not Winthrop. My guess is he was bitten by a rat or something and died of the, the dark plague or whatever happens in 1895 in Britain. But that Consuelo, she finally found marriage after her mom pawned her off on a rich guy who on their marriage night said, I only married you the money. I love you, honey.

[Ryder Strong]

And that seems pretty late 1890s, like.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, well, he was, I think their kid. It was either their kid or their grandkid. I think it's. Their kid was Winston Churchill.

[Glen Washington]

Oh, wow.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So he, she, she married the. The Vanderbilts married into the Churchill family.

[Ryder Strong]

So we're really only like two generations away from like completely arranged marriage. Yeah, still being a regular thing.

[Will Friedle]

I found a phrase I guess used in the early 1800s and all the way through the early 1900s, which is called a Dollar Princess. And so a Dollar Princess is literally somebody who's married off just for the money.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, the dowry.

[Will Friedle]

A Dollar Princess.

[Ryder Strong]

Even Listening to Pod meets Twirl, the vows have been spoken, the experts have weighed in, and our completely offhand conversation has now become a season long commitment. We'll see you next time. Trap your smoke in.

[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

Here's something good on women's health and longevity.

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[Kalpen Suresh Modi (Kal Penn)]

Hey everyone, it's Kalpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to ear singers, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryder Strong]

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.