A Closer Look with Dr. Hillary Goldsher

Summary

Pod Meets World – “A Closer Look with Dr. Hillary Goldsher”

Original Air Date: May 11, 2026
Hosts: Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle, Ryder Strong
Guest: Dr. Hillary Goldsher, clinical psychologist
Podcast: Pod Meets World (iHeartPodcasts)

Episode Overview

This episode offers an unflinching and deeply personal discussion about body image, disordered eating, and mental health in the high-pressure world of 1990s television. Hosts Danielle, Will, and Ryder reflect on their experiences during the filming of the infamous “She's Having My Baby Back Ribs” episode from Boy Meets World’s final season. To add a professional perspective, they welcome Dr. Hillary Goldsher, a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma and eating disorders, for an empathetic and insightful breakdown.

The conversation is raw, vulnerable, and filled with honest accounts of how the entertainment industry handled — or mishandled — issues of weight, shame, and self-worth, offering lessons on the importance of sensitivity, advocacy, and trauma-informed care.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Context: The “Weight Episode” (03:05)

• Danielle and Will recount being called into a “principal’s office” meeting by showrunners to be told an episode would be written about their weight gain.
  • Danielle recalls feeling shocked and ashamed, as there was no discussion about their feelings — “It was just like we’re doing it. Didn’t want you to be blindsided.” (08:31)
• Both describe laughs masking deeper pain and coping via self-medication: smoking, drinking, and emotionally withdrawing.
  • Quote: “We laughed about it because we were both dead inside.” – Will (09:38)
  • Danielle immediately “sobbed” in the car after. (09:43)

Dr. Goldsher’s Reaction: Compassion and Critique (10:15)

• Dr. Goldsher expresses devastation hearing how production addressed the actors’ bodies:
  • Quote: “I am devastated on behalf of your younger selves… There’s really no excuse for the mishandling of this.” (10:15)
• She specifically criticizes the lack of empathy and how open discussions about body and self-worth were replaced with shame and disregard.

Disordered Eating, Shame, and Suppression (13:22 onward)

• Danielle describes how the event triggered alcohol abuse and lifelong issues with food and self-perception.
  • Quote: “I think it truly kickstarted… a disordered relationship with food probably for my entire life.” (13:22)
• Dr. Goldsher introduces the idea of “double shame”: first, for the weight gain, and again for having it called out so publicly (14:01).

Gender and Cultural Context: Men’s Feelings and Shame (22:11)

• Will notes that while female actors received public scrutiny, men’s struggles were ignored or turned into jokes.
  • Quote: “There is no wrap up for Eric… Men… were not— their feelings were not thought of, accounted for at all around weight.” – Danielle (23:41)
• The writers’ room culture is called out for ridiculing a male writer’s love of food as a running joke (25:17), highlighting the broader gendered nuances of shame.

The Hierarchy of Value and “Living in the Shade” (27:31)

• Danielle recounts feeling discarded and constantly motivated by a desire to please the show’s “top person” (implied to be creator Michael Jacobs).
  • Quote: “…when you had not made him happy, you were motivated by trying to get the rays of the sun back on you. This season… I was just going to live in shade forever.” (28:19)
• Will reflects on the industry’s harsh focus on appearance, relaying agents asking, “Are you thin or fat right now?” as a standard career concern (31:01).

Mental Health, Accountability & Lack of Support (32:27–34:33)

• Will internalized accountability (“some of it was on me") but Dr. Goldsher reframes it:
  • Quote: “Asking [someone with anxiety] to ‘stop doing that’ is like asking someone with strep throat not to have a sore throat.” (33:37)

The Industry Then vs. Now: Change and Advocacy (43:47)

• Danielle observes today’s sets prioritize actors’ well-being over only the product: showrunners now check in frequently on kids’ social and emotional health.
  • Quote: “On sets I’m on now… the number one goal is that we all feel valued and that as people, we are healthy and good. And if we are healthy and good, the product will be healthy and good.” (44:55)
• Will points out that “we had a good set — for the 90s” and that while there was friendship and fun, self-advocacy wasn’t possible, especially as child actors.

Internalization and Lifelong Struggles (49:36)

• Will and Ryder admit they have never managed to truly decouple self-worth from body image. Will says bluntly, “I haven’t,” and describes persistent dysmorphia.

  • Quote: “I’ll never be comfortable in my skin, it just won’t happen.” (49:59)
  • Will’s wife tells him, “The only thing I don’t like about you is how harsh you are to yourself.”* (50:29)

• Danielle shares how pregnancy and motherhood shifted her view of her body’s value, though insecurities persist:

  • Quote: “…Now I just struggle with other things… My skin is saggy and loose on my stomach after having two kids… The first instinct is still, how do I fix this?” (54:16)

Fame as Trauma and Closing Reflections (56:01; 62:33)

• Dr. Goldsher asserts that the collective experience of fame often constitutes a form of trauma, complicated by the ongoing scrutiny and public expectations.

  • Quote: “I’ve come to conceptualize fame and celebrity as having some element of trauma law associated.” (56:01)
  • “It really is trauma work, not just body work… to resolve that and decide on your own who you want to be…” (57:13)

• Ryder and Will note that aging publicly is another source of judgment — and it’s “inescapable” for any former child star.

  • “We’re the hourglass for them…” (59:54)

• Dr. Goldsher closes by reiterating that traditional positive affirmations won’t suffice; real healing requires trauma-informed approaches.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “We laughed about it because we were both dead inside.” – Will (09:38)
• “I am devastated on behalf of your younger selves.” – Dr. Goldsher (10:15)
• “It truly kickstarted… a disordered relationship with food probably for my entire life.” – Danielle (13:22)
• “Asking [someone with anxiety] to ‘stop doing that’ is like asking someone with strep throat not to have a sore throat.” – Dr. Goldsher (33:37)
• “This season… I was just going to live in shade forever.” – Danielle (28:19)
• “I’ll never be comfortable in my skin. It just won’t happen.” – Will (49:59)
• “The only thing I don’t like about you is how harsh you are to yourself.” – Will’s wife, relayed by Will (50:29)
• “I’ve come to conceptualize fame and celebrity as having some element of trauma law associated.” – Dr. Goldsher (56:01)
• “It is trauma work, not just body work.” – Dr. Goldsher (57:13)
• “We’re the hourglass for them...” – Ryder (59:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:05 – Danielle frames the discussion: what the episode meant for the show and personally.
• 05:12 – Introduction and welcome to Dr. Goldsher.
• 08:31 – Story of being called into the weight meeting.
• 10:15 – Dr. Goldsher’s empathetic first reaction.
• 13:22 – Danielle describes the episode’s long-term emotional effects.
• 22:11 – Gender double standards in the show and writer’s rooms.
• 27:31 – Danielle shares her sense of “self-hatred” and living “in the shade.”
• 31:01 – Will on post-show Hollywood and constant body scrutiny.
• 32:37 – Mental health: reframing personal responsibility in the context of anxiety.
• 43:47 – Danielle describes positive changes in contemporary sets.
• 49:36 – Will and Ryder on never fully escaping negative body image.
• 54:16 – Danielle on how pregnancy and motherhood impacted her self-perception.
• 56:01 – Dr. Goldsher on fame as a trauma.
• 62:33 – Hosts reflect on trauma and self-acceptance.

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Memorable Moments

• Daniella and Will sharing their immediate (and self-punishing) coping responses to the initial weight “talk.”
• Dr. Goldsher’s unwavering stance that what happened “was not okay” and was likely traumatizing.
• The gendered analysis — men’s suffering ignored, women’s weaponized or tightly controlled.
• Danielle’s metaphor of “living in shade” as a measure of her place in the show's hierarchy.
• Real talk about how industry conditions, not just individual willpower or genetics, create and perpetuate body image struggles.
• The group’s conclusion that talking openly — with each other and with a professional — is only now starting to feel possible.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode is a powerful reckoning with the hidden traumas often baked into childhood fame, especially for actors whose bodies became public property. The hosts’ honesty, paired with Dr. Goldsher’s expertise, shines a light on the real, lasting damage caused by shame-based management and the urgent need for trauma-informed, sensitive advocacy within the entertainment industry.

Listeners are left with a clear message: self-worth must be uncoupled from public and industry metrics, and healing is possible — but only if the conversation goes deeper than positive self-talk, and trauma is named and addressed.

Transcript

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Watch only on Prime. When facing the prospect of recapping I Want My Baby Back Ribs we always knew there would be two angles to attack. One what is the overall effect this episode had on the lexicon of Boy Meets World and what did it mean to the viewer watching at home? And two selfishly, what did it mean for Will and me, the Fatty fats? In the past, we have briefly touched on our raw emotions with the plot and knew pretty early that both angles would need a closer look. And we decided it was probably best to do it with a professional because as always, we try to be as real and transparent as possible with you, our dear listeners. We've had zero discussion on pre production for today's talk and hope that it's not only something that can personally help us, but might resonate with some listeners currently struggling with their weight or how they see themselves. With that in mind, today's episode will be filled with talk about disordered eating, body image and weight talk and mental health struggles. If you think this will trigger you, we suggest skipping this week. And if you or someone you know is struggling with an eating disorder, you can reach out to the National Eating disorders association at 1-800-931-2237 or visit nationaleatingdisorders.org and if you are in immediate distress, call or text 9881 or text home to 741-741. Dr. Hillary Goldsher is a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in the treatment of trauma and PTSD and commonly works with clients navigating disordered eating, body image and recovery. We asked her to watch the episode and she has listened to a prior discussion we've had about it on the podcast, but she has not listened to the recap from this week. Let's please welcome Dr. Goldcher.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Hi guys, so nice to meet you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Nice to meet you. Thank you so much for being here with us. Is this the first and only episode of Boy Meets World you've ever seen?

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really? In some ways, I'm a little disappointed about that. Even though ultimately I think we ended up feeling like it was a pretty decent episode in a lot of ways. There were some jokes in it that I feel like do not properly represent our characters. And so in some ways it also is very disappointing because there were. There are better episodes of Boy Meets World.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Well, I. I guess you'll have a version of an objective opinion because I don't really have a context and.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Given the topic that we're talking about, maybe that's useful. I guess we'll see.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Well, just to give you a little bit of background, this episode that you watched, She's Having My Baby Back Ribs, was from our seventh and final season. I was 18 when we taped it and Will was 22. And yes, Will and I had put on a little bit of we over the hiatus. Will, when would you say you. I know that for me, I started the show at 12 and I, you know, probably weighed somewhere in the 80s or 90s because I was 12 and I'm only. I'm only 5:1 now. So I was maximum 5ft tall then. And so over the course of seven seasons, I had probably put on 20 to 25 pounds. Starting at 12, going to 18. Will, when do you think you started putting on a little bit of weight and how much weight do you think total you had gained?

[Will Friedle]

Well, I mean, I should say that I've struggled with my weight my entire life. So I was what they would back in the day call a husky kid. I constantly was. Was going back and forth and yo yoing. And as a child actor, you know, I got the talk on basically every show I did. So I got pulled aside on Nickelodeon when I was 11, told that I was putting on weight. I got pulled aside the first season of Boy Meets World. I was told that I was putting on weight. So I then lost a lot of weight. I mean, you could see, I think it was by second or third season, I'm very thin.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And that was my. My cigarettes and coffee diet. I mean, that's basically all I was living on. And then so by. From my lowest on Boy Meets World to my highest on Boy Meets World, I probably put on at least 50 pounds, maybe. Maybe a little more. Probably. Probably closer to 60. And I've yo yoed back and forth. I mean, I think about food and I put on weight. That's just the part of my genetics. I just can't. I'm. I'm very slow metabolism and I work out. I mean I average like 19, 000 steps a day. And I will still put on weight. I'm just, it's just in me. So it's. Yeah, I. I put on between 50 and 60 pounds over the course of seven.

[Danielle Fishel]

Seven years.

[Will Friedle]

Seventeen. Yeah. And I yo. Yoed quite a bit.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. So Will had also just started taking medication around this time. I had just moved out of my parents house. And you've heard us tell the story about how we were told that this episode was being written. But just in case there are some listeners to this episode who have not heard it. Michael Jacobs called a meeting we believe also Bob Tischler called a meeting with Will and I and it felt very much like we had been called to the principal's office. It was like what?

[Will Friedle]

What did we do?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, what did we do? It was after run through, I think after notes even like it would have been, it would have been like, come see us today at you know, 6pm I was like, oh my gosh. And Will and I saw each other outside the office and we're like what's this about? I don't know. And we go in and it was just right to the point. Look, it's obvious that you guys have both put on quite a bit of weight and it's, you know, getting to a point now where we have to talk about it. So we're going to write an episode about. I just, I didn't want you to be blindsided. And there were really no details as far as I remember about what the episode was actually going to be about, but just that we were. They were writing an episode about the fact that we had gained weight and, and so there was no question like how does that make you feel? Or anything. It was just like we're doing that. Didn't want you to be blindsided.

[Commercial Voice 1]

And it wasn't.

[Will Friedle]

Are you okay with this? It was at all. Here's what's going to happen.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And we wanted you to know what was gonna happen. And I just remember the two of us laughing because we were like, okay, okay, great. And then we walked out together.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Well, I guess we're doing this.

[Will Friedle]

And we laughed about it because we were both dead inside.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So yeah, I think I got to the car and then just sobbed.

[Will Friedle]

I'm sure I went to a drive through. It's true. I mean, that's right. You know, I smoked a cigarette, went home, smoked a cigarette Smoked some weed, went to a drive thru. That's probably what happened.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah, I probably got drunk.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 2]

So I mean, that's what, I mean

[Will Friedle]

that's what we were doing back in the day when it was, you know, self medicating is not necessarily a good thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, absolutely not. So, Dr. Goldcher, what are your initial thoughts on the episode and, and what you've heard and what you watched?

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Well, I, I have to say out loud that I am devastated on behalf of you too, and your younger selves and on the younger selves that you represent amongst all your listeners that are out there, both that are young and coming into their own bodies and that were young at some point and struggling, coming into their own bodies. I'm devastated you guys are talking about this. You're used to the story.

[Danielle Fishel]

I am, right?

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

I am not. And I feel like it is my duty as a clinician and a doctor to say I'm so sorry, this is not okay. And back then, even though it was a while ago, folks should have known better and there's really no excuse for the mishandling of this aspect of what was happening with you young folks that were under their care. And so my reaction is that as a human being, I'm devastated as like a shepherd to people who struggle with eating disorders and disordered thinking around food and body dysmorphia. This is just a clear trajectory to causing those sorts of issues for young people. And so I first just want to say I'm so sorry. There's nothing about this that is okay. And I think the story might be that you're so used to the story that there's a part of you that might not recognize how not okay this is.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think we recognize it now, but I think we've spent so many years suppressing the feelings about it because it is like, it is overwhelming. And when I really think about those young people, we were the 22 year old Will, with everything he was going through personally that he had not really ever openly expressed to any of us at the time with mental health struggles and anxiety and new medications and you know, all of that and then being in denial that maybe people didn't notice he had put on any weight. And then like I, when I think about that, my heart just breaks for him. And I have, any time I've thought about it for myself and my own story, it's so emotionally hard for me to think about. I mean it truly kickstarted what I think was probably like an, I mean definitely disordered eating and A disordered relationship with food probably for my entire life. But even I really think, I think alcohol, I think numbing, numbing myself and being able to turn off my brain and alcohol became, became that go to. Which of course was then a vicious cycle because alcohol is. It puts on sugar.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Danielle Fishel]

And slows your metabolism and stops you from digesting food. And there's, there's, you know, truthfully, I'm not, I'm not trying to say anything negative about people's decisions to drink, but as somebody who doesn't drink anymore and I, I mean I don't see a single pro to alcohol. I mean it really, it causes so many problems both personally, interpersonally, the over and I. But it took me a long time. It was the only way that I could get my brain to shut off for a really long time. So yeah, I think you're right. We're, we're used to the story, but also we've had, we have years of practice suppressing. Yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Well, and, and there's the, the double shame that you both were forced to experience, which is the original weight gain, which appeared to me to be subtle and in the normal range. And then there's the experience of having to have it called out in this unceremonious way in your workplace and then publicly and have it not held up in any way, shape or form other than for public consumption. And so I can see how it jump started an intense shame cycle made further shameful by the need for it to be suppressed and, or laughed about or accepted. And you know, I wanted to hold up that the distinction seems important. There's weight gain that occurs in puberty and as people are getting older and that's normal.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

And young people are finding their way around their body, around self care, around food consumption, around exercise, and that's normal. And then there's disordered eating. And sometimes that appears as weight gain, sometimes it doesn't. Right. But if there's disordered eating, you have a dysfunctional relationship with food. That's a mental health issue and typically a symptom related to something else. Right. Related to depression or related to anxiety or related to trauma. And so the food piece is just a tentacle of something much more serious and like, like alcohol or like drugs, etc. So for that to become the highlight, the center doesn't allow the full exploration of what was happening. If there was disordered eating occurring, which I can't tell from looking at both of you during those seasons, you seem like normal human beings moving through space, but if there was, it doesn't give you an opportunity to look at, well, what's, what's the serving and what's the serving to. To help suppress? And and so I There's so much pain, and not just the obvious. I'm sure many people who watch this or rewatched it had a similar reaction, but it's so much more insidious than that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

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[Danielle Fishel]

You know I'm thinking about because we we were recapping the episode and writer mentioned whether or not it would have been different for us had they brought in a clinician similarly to the way we have Intimacy coordinators now on set and hearing you Dr. Goldscher talk about this and hearing will mention that over the course of seven seasons multiple times he was talked to about his weight. It really is. I've never thought about the fact I don't know why I've never thought about that until this until right now that it ne that there was never even the slightest bit of pretending that anyone was concerned about us. No, they were just angry about it. They were. The feeling was like you are saying, Dr. Goldcher, you should feel shame. We are. You are. This is a. This is. You should be ashamed.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Weight was moralized in a way. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was like, what's wrong with you? This is a failing. Well.

[Will Friedle]

Cause it's totally in your control, quote, unquote. So it's like you've done this to

[Danielle Fishel]

yourself and why are you doing this to.

[Will Friedle]

And why are you doing the end.

[Danielle Fishel]

But not enough from a concerned place at all.

[Will Friedle]

No. I also, I'm curious, Danielle and Ryder, just because you know him, which of course, in the 90s, nobody was really openly talking about their mental health. So if, you know, I wasn't going to people and saying, hey, I'm dealing with an anxiety disorder. I don't know what it is. I'm still struggling with it. They're putting me on this medication. They're putting me on that medication. It's causing me to. To self medicate. It's causing me to gain weight. It's causing me to eat. Had I said that to Michael, do you think he still would have written the episode?

[Commercial Voice 2]

That's a really tough question. I mean, I know. I think he certainly gendered some of these issues, so I feel like he would have listened to you more than he would have listened to, say, Danielle. Saying something about not wanting to do the episode. But I think if.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 2]

So I think he probably would have listened more.

[Danielle Fishel]

But I don't know.

[Commercial Voice 2]

That's hard. That's a hard.

[Will Friedle]

I don't know.

[Commercial Voice 2]

General. I do think that in general, there was an attitude that being a good actor meant being thin, you know. Right. So I think anything that was a threat to your. To, you know, it would have been seen as you being a bad actor,

[Will Friedle]

not taking that seriously unless it's what you're known for. You know, if you're John Candy or you're Chris Farley and you're no part of your shtick, quote, unquote. Is that your big.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Then you're. It's probably acceptable. But I wasn't. I was the teen heartthrob, quote, unquote, who let myself go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And this is what happened. Which puts me in a different category. It's like just what Danielle said. It puts me in the shame category. You did this to yourself.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

And now we're gonna make a joke of it because we have to say something.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. I think if you had gone to him and said, I don't want the episode to be written because it's actually really hard for me because I'm feeling super Sensitive about it for these reasons. I'm dealing with an anxiety disorder. I think he would have just tried to convince you that they can still make it funny.

[Will Friedle]

I think so.

[Danielle Fishel]

So let's. We don't have to say any of that, but let's. It's just a joke. It's funny. It's still funny. I think he would have done that.

[Commercial Voice 1]

I also don't think it ever occurred

[Will Friedle]

to him to have a sensitive issue like this matter to Eric the way it did to Topanga. Yeah, it's just because again in the episode, there is no wrap up for Eric, Danielle.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's what I'm saying. Men, unfortunately, in this situation were not. Their feelings were not thought of, accounted for at all around weight.

[Will Friedle]

It was needs to be sat down and told, you're beautiful the way you are. You're fine. And then we cut to Eric still slamming pizza in and never address how he feels ever. Which I thought was interesting.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

It really concretizes the endless message around men not being not supposed to have feelings.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Correct.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

And to suppress using dysfunctional means. Right. And leaves you without resources. And the men that I see in my practice on a regular basis still talk about feelings. Feeling resourceless when it comes to their feelings and mental health issues. And again, I used that word earlier unceremoniously. There was this way in which it was sort of a throwaway. Well, that you were left unresolved.

[Will Friedle]

Right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, totally. And the. Just the idea that the takeaway is a man having feelings around his weight or body is, I guess, feminine. And they're so like, you don't. You're not allowed to have that. And yet the other side of it, a man having 6% body fat and having abs, that's not feminine. So that's manly. That's. That's the behavior to strive for. But if you're not that and you're sensitive about it and we think about, think about the writers room and how they treated Jeff Mannell.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So we had, we had a writer who loves food. It's like his favorite thing in the world. And he, he is. Has been ridiculed by every single person on staff.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Probably given joke. It was an in constant joke that. Yeah. Make joke. Make a joke. Eating. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Well, when you think about it, the extremes are. Men who are supposedly have weight issues are made to be the object of humor and lose their place as the object of affection.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. And the object losing their place is the object of affection is the thing that I was saying. Like I didn't I think I, I, I felt very much this week that the hardest part of it for me was that I was, it was very. It suddenly became very clear that what I was being told was, you used to be hot. And now I no longer. My, my. The one person who, who was making. I no longer find you hot. And I. Then I don't. I have no idea. We just have to talk about that because I don't know what else to do.

[Will Friedle]

Well, it was subtly awful before that because it was. We've had wardrobe people come on that said that, you know, Danielle was not allowed to wear anything that was sleeveless.

[Danielle Fishel]

Anything sleeveless. Because just wanted to hide my body as much as possible.

[Will Friedle]

I wanted to hide her as much as they possibly could. So then going from that to, well,

[Commercial Voice 1]

we've tried to do this subtle.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And it's not working anymore. So now we have to draw a big circle around it is kind of how I felt at that point.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

I just, I have to. The things that you're saying feel so shocking to me. And again, they were sort of implemented, I guess, unceremoniously, without any preface, just these comments and this value system. And I guess I'd ask both of you, Danielle, for you. So how did you manage the buildup of those microaggressions against you at such a young age? Where did that sit with you and where do they live now? I'd be curious, both of you.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think it just culminated in a lot of self hatred. I just really. I felt very bad about myself. I didn't want to be an actor anymore. I didn't want to be on camera anymore. I felt like everyone looked at me and immediately was like, disgusting beast. Like, literally. I just felt, I felt a lot of shame. And that came out in me in a lot of very. It behavior and it attitude. I don't want to be here. I want this to be over. I didn't. And I didn't want to be there. I was miserable. And it. I am able to think about it now, and I think I've always thought, had I been thinner, I would have enjoyed the season more. But I realized, like, it actually, I probably didn't need to be thinner. I just needed to be treated with respect. Had I been treated with respect, I would have enjoyed the season more. But I felt so discarded and I felt so. I felt so ashamed and like I had let. There was, there was a, it was very clear on set. There was a hierarchy and that the very, the very top person. Our goal was to make happy at all times. And when you did, it was like you could feel the rays of the sun on you, and it was just the best feeling in the world. And when you had not made him happy, you were motivated by trying to get the feelings of the rays of the sun back on you. And this season, I think it was just very clear that I was going to live in shade forever. There was no getting back the rays of the sun. You were just in shade. And so I stopped trying. And that then felt like a failure. I had failed. I had failed the show and now they wouldn't let me go. There was nothing I could do, but they were mad and, and it was. I was just now a failure.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

What you're describing is really nothing short of like an annihilation of the self. Yeah, no, and, and one's identity and it's so fragile at that age range anyway, it's supposed to be, right. We're trying to figure out who we are and what our value is in the world. And the notion that it isn't about our external appearance is. Is tenuous at best. Correct that age and so forth. It to be preyed upon in that manner and you to carry that in the fashion you're describing is honestly devastating. And you couldn't, at that season of your life, overcome that. It's too fragile. And you had obviously, the additional pressure of all of this being public. And again, casual, like the way in which you were, as you use the word discarded was casual. A throwaway, no punish intended. Right. It wasn't handled with any gravity or sobriety. And there you were left to. To carry it. And yeah, again, as I was saying at the beginning, I'm just so struck that this took place with no narration, no follow up. You know, it just occurred and was left.

[Commercial Voice 1]

And we're also, though, we're in an

[Will Friedle]

industry where, I mean, how you look matters. It's part of. Part of our job was to look good. I remember when I finished Boy Meets World, I had, you know, deals to go on and do other shows. And my agent would always say the same thing. I, you know, I, I'd call or he'd call me and he'd always go, yeah, I'm gonna. I want to send you in for this. They really want to meet you. But you know what? They're asking, how do you look? Are you thin or fat right now? And he would literally say that you thin or fat right now? And I'd go, I'm kind of in the middle. He's like, you. Well, you better work on that because they're asking, they say you didn't look good last time. They didn't like what they saw in the last thing and they're going to give it to somebody else. So I mean that was part of our job. And I understood that that was on me. I mean some of it was on me in that I was not taking care of myself. And I know that I had, I was dealing with, with mental illness at the time and had not yet learned any coping skills. This was brand new for me. I had been hit with an anxiety disorder right before the start of season seven. It's the 90s. I'm not telling anybody I have this. They're switching up my medication all the time. I'm smoking more weed, I'm drinking more, I'm eating more, I'm just, I'm doing whatever I can to suppress feeling awful. And so I knew, you know, now having the coping skills, I know things like exercise are hugely important to anxiety and depression. I know that I just wasn't taking care of myself and I know part

[Commercial Voice 1]

of that was on me.

[Will Friedle]

The problem was there was no sensitivity around the subject whatsoever. In the 90s it was how do you look? Are you fat? Then don't, don't bother coming in. And that's just what it was I

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

think, you know, I often say the phrase like two things are true. Like of course it's at the same time.

[Morakan Rice Vinegar Advertiser]

Right.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Two things are true. Of course it's true. We all sort of understand that being a front facing entertainer, that your external matters and no one is operating in a naive fashion in that regard. So that's true. The other thing that's true, I mean I'm sort of stating the obvious but it kind of should be said is that even back in the 90s, I mean the paradigm was, is different but still the idea of kindness predate then. Right. And so being able to have more sensitive conversations seem to be important. I just want to say from like a psychoeducation standpoint and maybe it's useful to you guys as you're listening to this. But yes, it's true. Some of, some of it will was quote on you. But when someone has depression or anxiety and is demonstrating embodying the symptoms, asking them to quote, stop doing that is like asking someone with strep throat not to have a sore throat.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Like come on, just stop. Yeah, right. And it's not a thing. And so I know what you're saying that on like a holistic gestalt level yes, you're responsible for how you move through the world, but you were dealing with some mental health issues that have particular symptoms. And the particular symptoms of an anxiety disorder are all encompassing and hellish to endure. And so it is inevitable if someone has an untreated anxiety disorder or an anxiety disorder that that is not well managed, that there's going to be symptoms. And those symptoms are going to be to seek to suppress the overwhelming feelings of anxiety, whatever that means, whether that's drinking, eating too much, sleeping too much, all the things. And so it's part of a mental health issue that gets sort of a bad rap, so to speak, because those behaviors are, you know, not are distasteful, but they truly are part of the composition of a mental health disorder, particularly an anxiety disorder.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, it was rough.

[Danielle Fishel]

I also think like, imagine the difference in someone like say, Michael having concern for us and saying like, I do want to know what's going on. And before me, if we are going to write an episode about it, let's at least can we bring in a Dr. Goldcher? Can we bring somebody in and say, you know, listen, we love you, we care about you, we see you here week after week, year after year. It seems obvious to me that you've put on some weight and we just want to know whether. We just want to make sure you're okay. Also, if it's a matter of. Danielle, you just moved out of your parents house and my parents had a gym in their house and now you live in a place that doesn't have a gym and you're commuting an hour from Manhattan beach to Burbank and then do you want us to. Do you want a personal trainer? Do you want to talk with a dietitian? Do you want to. Because you're learning how to cook for yourself. You know, you've just moved out of your parents house, like whatever, whatever the situation is. Oh, you're also going out at night and you're drinking alcohol for the first time the way a lot of college kids do. I think of those years for me from 18, even though I was on Boy Meets World and not in college, those are college years. I moved out. I immediately started going out and doing college kid things like knowing that Malibu and pineapple, which was my favorite drink at 18, you know, that has a lot of cal. That has a lot of calories even. Just and solely from the standpoint of we want you to be the healthiest version of yourself. This person was making so much money, so much money. And I Was significantly underpaid. Had he cared at all about one getting what he wanted, which is for me to get back to some sort of his version of your body. My body, my figure, my whatever. Had he cared actually about that instead of just making me feel bad. There were a million different ways he. They could have gone about it. And instead of just passive aggressively shaming me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, well, this is also something that. That was happening quite a bit before us and then during us. I mean, I remember Tracy Gold on Growing Pains famously has talked about her eating disorders and anorexia. Excuse me. And there's, I mean you hear about people on 90210 and all these kind of shows where the women especially because the guys. It wasn't about the guys. You were just lazy if you're a guy. But the women were shamed to the point of eating disorders where it's like you can't look like this and be on tv.

[Commercial Voice 2]

So my big question is, has it changed? I don't know. I mean, honestly, I've not been on sets enough lately. Especially with young people around. Are they having more constructive conversations around actors or are actors still treated with shame and this sort of tough talk?

[Will Friedle]

Right. I don't know.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

I was just gonna say that it seems to me there needs to be like a co creation between the folks that are kind of managing the set, bringing a sensitivity and an ability that discourse about these kind of issues and the ability for the actor themselves to engage in self advocacy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Curious for, for you guys, based on what you're saying, it sounds like the notion of self advocacy on this set wasn't available to you.

[Blue Square Alliance Spokesperson]

No.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Well, but it's also we. And I think a lot of actors

[Will Friedle]

deal with this, especially child actors. How dare you complain when you're living the dream.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Dream.

[Will Friedle]

And so you are. You are there. You're making a ton of money. You're hanging on the walls of all these people around the country and millions of people are you watching you every week. How dare you have any problems of your own?

[Commercial Voice 1]

How dare you.

[Will Friedle]

And so I think there's that. You know, Ryder talked about it when we were starting this podcast where it's like, you know, you, you're not allowed to complain about Boy Meets World. This was.

[Commercial Voice 1]

You were, were so lucky to be there.

[Bowen Yang]

True.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Everything you're talking about where two things can be true at the same time.

[Will Friedle]

Of course we were lucky to be there. Of course we earned being there.

[Commercial Voice 1]

But yes, hugely lucky.

[Will Friedle]

The you go to this audition, you don't go to that audition. Luck is amazingly intricate and involved when it comes to a professional actor's career. You never know what you're going to get, when you're going to get it. And yes, work is, is involved as well, but the idea that once you get that brass ring that you would

[Commercial Voice 1]

then complain about it, it.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God, you're, you're a dirt bag.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So you kind of. The idea of, hey, I'm having. I'm struggling here. Well, there's a hundred thousand people that want to be in your. 100 million people that want to be in your position, so you better not ever talk about how you're struggling.

[Commercial Voice 1]

That's.

[Will Friedle]

That was how it was back in the day.

[Commercial Voice 1]

I'm hoping that's changed a bit.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Especially with social media because you're your own product now. So. So while you might, might be an actor and go to the set and do something, you then go home and usually a lot of them, I don't. But turn the camera on themselves and then it's. Now it's just you and your fans.

[Bowen Yang]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 2]

You have that direct access. Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And I think that's more helpful. But that's, that's a new thing. We didn't have that.

[Commercial Voice 1]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Thankfully for me, on the sets that I have been on as a director, especially, you know, shows with kids, the caring about the. The actors as people, first and foremost, is the number one thing I would say feels different than, you know, it was. It was. Even though we felt loved and, you know, cared for on the set of Boy Meets World most of the time, there was never a doubt in my mind that the show was the most important aspect of what we were doing. The show, the episodes, the product of Boy Meets World was the priority. And making the best product, no matter what, was number one. On sets I'm on now, it feels as though you walk in with the understanding that the fact that the number one goal is that we are all. We all feel valued and that as people, we are healthy and good. And if we are healthy and good, the product will be healthy and good. And so I have really felt a shift. I know the, you know, the showrunners I work with regularly have conversations with me as the director about how do the kids seem? And if I start talking about, well, you know, they didn't in this script, and they're like, no, no, no. As friends, as people, as children, how does it seem like they're getting along? Have they said anything to you? Is there anything going on, anything we should be aware of? They care. They care a great deal about that.

[Commercial Voice 1]

And we had a good set. That's the thing. We did not have a bad set.

[Will Friedle]

We're not. We're not like, oh, my God, we had this toxic, awful. We didn't know we had. We were treated well. We loved being with each other. We loved working together. We were laughing all the time. We did have a very good set, but it was a good set for the time. You know, the idea that we would advocate for ourselves, even our characters, it just. It didn't happen. And again, that was just par for the course. We were for the version of a television show in the 90s. We had a wonderful set, the culture needed to change, and it slowly is. I mean, we've talked about this before when it comes to age, you know, we had adults hanging out with kids, and the line between ages was completely blurred. I mean, there's things that now are happening on sets that are far more healthy than what we were dealing with. But we didn't know that because we loved being there. We laughed all the time. The adults were great for the Most part, the adults were wonderful and treated us well. So I often hear myself talking about what happened on Boy Meets World as if I'm saying we were on the worst plate, you know, and we just weren't. We had. We had a wonderful time. But yeah, there was a lot in the culture that needed to change at the time.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Yeah, I'm glad we're talking about this advocacy piece. Just as your listeners contemplate the more holistic, macro issue of mental health stuff, you know that one of the ways that we move towards health and recovery is just saying the thing. You know, saying the thing to, like, some trusted other. And I hear that on that set it seemed almost impossible. But finding some corner in your world of being able to eke out some messaging around suffering or discomfort is critical to finding, like, an opening, you know?

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yeah, well, we've talked about. Unfortunately, even with each other, as much as we were together and loved each other and were friends, we couldn't talk about these things to each other back then. You know, it wasn't. And even. Even, like, it's funny because even talking about acting too much, we've realized was, like, considered a weakness. Like, if we took acting too seriously, which is, you think the number one thing you would want as a job, like, we have to make this scene good. How do we act? If you talked about that too much, you were being self indulgent and ridiculous and you were taking yourself too seriously. So we had this atmosphere on the set of, like, no, we're all here to just have fun and this is easy for us. And effortless effort. It's effortless. If you show any weakness or any

[Danielle Fishel]

effort, that's a sign you don't belong, is a weakness.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yeah. Because we watched people get fired. Children got fired around us left and right. So there was a sense that if you gummied up or slowed down the process in any way, that you would probably get fired. And so, yeah, it's terrifying.

[Danielle Fishel]

I also felt that way. Even just that was like the thing I felt going back to a weight conversation. The fact that staying thin wasn't easy for me. The fact that staying thin was not something that was part of my genetics. I remember being able to look around my high school girlfriends. Cause I did go back to my regular high school every hiatus week. And I had friends whose bodies are just genetically different than mine. They could still at in high school, have pizza and Doritos at lunch with a soda and never, never weigh more than £94. And they were cheerleaders. And, you know, super active. And what? And I, I just. That wasn't my body type. That wasn't my body style. And that felt like a failure. Also. It didn't feel like, oh, well, we're just different. It was like, what's wrong with me? Like, why? Why is what's wrong with me? So, yeah, the idea that. It didn't seem as though Maitland or Trina, the other and. Or even Betsy the other. I certainly didn't know what they were doing as far as their diets or their exercise regimen. I didn't know. But it didn't seem like it was something that they needed to think about 24 hours a day. And for me, it felt like if I have to think about this all the time, it can be the only thought in my head.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

How have you guys over time decoupled your sense of self worth from your body, given early experiences?

[Will Friedle]

I haven't.

[Commercial Voice 2]

I don't think I have. And I, I. Yeah. I never even had an episode written about it, but I just have a constant shame and fear about how I look, you know, and feeling like I'm letting the world down.

[Will Friedle]

God, it's awful. Yes. I'll never be comfortable in my skin. It just won't happen. So I'd love to get to that point where I am. I'm okay with how I look, but I never. I never will. I have this idea in my head that I know is basically unattainable for somebody like me because I work out a lot and it's just not my body genetics. And it's fine. I'm. I say it's fine. It's fine in that I have to

[Commercial Voice 1]

somehow get to that point of being okay with it.

[Will Friedle]

But I. I know I never will. I'm. I'm the. My wife says this to me all the time. She's like, the only thing I don't like about you, she's. To me, she says, the only thing I don't like about you is how harsh you are to yourself.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

She's like, I hate it. She's like, that's it. She's like this. I. There's nothing. I'm the first one to crack a joke about how I look. The first one to crack a joke about my weight. The first one.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

One.

[Will Friedle]

And she's like, I love everything about you except that. She's like, I can't stand how harsh you are to yourself. And I just. That's always how I'll be.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Will definitely has, like, active body dysmorphia. He sees himself on screen and. And he. He doesn't see the same person that. That we see. Yeah. And, you know, I think we all probably do to a certain extent, because I know writer does too, too. Writer, as writer just mentioned, just feeling like he's always letting people down. And I know that for me, pregnancy actually helped. I was very worried that pregnancy was going to do the reverse. And I did my first. During my first pregnancy. So I was with my OB GYN that I had never been with before. She wasn't like a. She was just a doctor I had because now I was pregnant. And I went in and it was, you know, one of the first trimester appointments, and I got on the scale and I never looked. I'd never. I didn't. I just. I would always close my eyes while they would write my weight down. And then they put it in the chart and I went in there and she was like, okay, so you've gained this many pounds. I don't remember what it was. I blocked it out. But she was like, you've gained this many pounds and you're still in the first trimester, so I'm gonna need you to slow down on the weight gain, because if you keep up with this pace. And I burst into hysterical tears and sobbed. And she literally. She looked at Jensen like, what. What just happened? And Jensen was like, oh, you know. And I was like. I felt like this need, like I had to defend myself and I had to explain myself.

[Will Friedle]

And I don't understand because I did.

[Danielle Fishel]

I swear, I'm not even. I'm not even eating, just. And she wrote in my chart, has body dysmorphia. And. And never again, through any time of my pregnancy, talked to me about my weight, what I had gained, how it was going, nothing. And I. Then I never. And I never asked to go. I was just like, that's probably for the best. But then after that, after having kids, I did gain a new sense of appreciation for what my body is capable of. Both the fact that I put on more weight than I ever wanted to. I put on like £50 with my first, and I think almost 60 with my second. And I lost it both times. And I didn't do it in some crazy, unhealthy way. I didn't do it even super fast. I just did the normal thing. My body, you know, with working out and with eating well and time breastfeeding, all the things that you hear people can do. And it made me. It did make me think, man, I'm so Much more. I am so much more than just this outer body form. And with that said, now I just struggle with other things. Now I just struggle with, well, my skin is saggy and loose on my stomach after having two kids and gaining 60 pounds. And now I'm in my mid-40s and I'm starting to have crepiness in my arms and, and I, there are times where the very first thing, I've talked about it on this podcast many times. I, I have met with plastic surgeons. I've never had plastic surgery yet, but I reserve the right that I may still do it. And my first instinct is still, how do I fix this? And that's what I think. I look in the mirror and I think, ooh, how do I fix that? And then I go, does this need to be fixed? Is there anything wrong with the fact that I have saggy, loose skin on my stomach after having two children? Is it even remotely realistic for me to expect that I could gain 50 and 60 pounds because I had two children that I still take care of and run around and have such a busy, active lifestyle? And I'm healthy, I'm in good shape, I work out, I have some saggy skin. Is that okay, Danielle? Is that okay? And I go back and forth on it sometimes I absolutely hate it about myself. And I think, but I'll never wear a two piece. That would be hideous. I think to myself. And then other times I'm like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? So I go back and forth. It's an active conversation with myself all the time.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Sometimes as a clinician, I will make what I call like process comments, which is to reveal how my body is feeling when clients or folks that I'm talking to share things and I am feeling at the moment, moment so impacted and sad around what you all are saying. Because in my mind I've had over the years the opportunity to work with a fair number of public figures. And what I'm about to say might not be so palatable for everyone because there is a privilege to being a public figure. But I've come to conceptualize fame and celebrity, to have some element of trauma law associated.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

And, and certainly what you guys are talking about falls under that category. And like I said, it's hard for people to digest because there's so much privilege. Of course, that sure thing front facing entertainment person, but the, the pull to show up a certain way and then the shame when there's a gap, a delta between how the public expects you to show up and how you do is devastating to the being, you know, And I was just thinking about that. You know, Will, when you were saying, I don't think I'll ever get there, my heart felt like slightly shattered. And I. You know, I don't want to say this as a throwaway. It's an incredible endeavor, but it really is trauma work, and that takes a while. An understatement. And it's kind of an existential exercise, you know, working through the trauma and trying to conceptualize who you want to be and why you were put on this earth and the gap between the world's expectations and how you come to know yourself and how you define, you know, humanity and success. And it is really nothing short of. Of trauma work. It is much more than, like, oh, will I ever, like, accept my body? Although, of course, day to day, it shifts up like that often. But it is an incredible endeavor. And I just want to offer the notion that first that it is trauma work, not just body work. And so the place that I would hope for all of you, that's the kind of work that needs to be undertaken. You may or may not already be doing that. But just focusing on the symptom, so to speak, as if it's still about the body, will get you. Only so far, do you know, I mean, this really was an existential identity crisis to resolve it. And there are many reality components to it. You all really do have expectations that I gather it's communicated to you that you're not meeting because you were public figures. I put not meeting in quotes. I can't see. And so to resolve that and decide on your own who you want to be and what defines value is an incredible pursuit. But again, has to be, in my view, under the lens of trauma.

[Danielle Fishel]

Trauma.

[Commercial Voice 2]

I totally agree. And I think the easiest way for us to see that is that regardless of body, people judge us for getting older. Just having the gall to keep aging and not be 13 or 15 or whatever we were in their mind when they knew us the best and liked us and connected with our characters. And I can't do anything about that. I have to admit, I would rather be alive than not. So I'm not gonna die young. So I'm going to keep getting older, and I'm going to keep disappointing everybody who's ever been a fan of Teenage Rider. Strong and like. But it still sucks to hear. It still sucks to be told, you know, and. And then there's always the backward compliment of, like, well, Danielle looks so great. And it's like, she still looks so young. And it's like, well, yeah, that, that is true. But like, you know, we're right next to her and they don't notice, you know, but it's like, well, we just look our age. We just look like old dudes. And it's like, okay, but that's okay too, you know, like, like the accomplishment of Danielle looking so, so amazing for her age doesn't mean that we also didn't do something by just the only

[Danielle Fishel]

one of us who gets Botox. Like, I'm also very open about the fact that I, you know, you guys, neither one of you, you guys barely wash your face, much less, you know, go to the doctor every three months immediately going, please get rid of this.

[Commercial Voice 2]

But we can't beat it, you know, like, it's just aging. It's just getting older and that, you know, Like, I had a friend point it out to me. We were talking once and he was like, you know, the world really is upset at you for getting older. He's like, how dare you? And I was like, that's really weird.

[Will Friedle]

But you're right, it means they're getting older.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Well, that's the thing. It's.

[Will Friedle]

We're.

[Commercial Voice 2]

We're the hourglass for them, right? Like every year on my birthday when it's announced, you know, that I'm now 46, like, all of social media is like, oh my God, what does that mean? Or you know, the meme that went around of like, if this was your high school crush, it's time to take your leave or whatever, get your colon. Right? It's like we're sort of the punching bags in some way for that, you know.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Well, everyone ages at some point and if you're lucky. Yes, that's right. And has to reconcile with what you're talking about. And there's an enormous reality component that you have to do it in this public way. And again, the recalibration that that requires. There's a reality component. You're not just complaining, you are getting this feedback. And it is really hard to absorb and not internalize and make different the view you have of yourself. And so as I, I really do conceptualize that as a version of trauma. And the way to respond to that has to incorporate trauma work the day to day notions of just trying to ward that off by focusing on oneself. And positive affirmations may just not be enough because the incoming is so significant and chronic and persistent.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, thank you, Dr. Goldscher, for joining us. We doing this podcast have talked about it being an unpacking and it being more therapeutic for us than we ever could have anticipated. And thank you for being a part of that and helping us, at least for. For me, for sure. Thinking about trauma work, because I've never. I've never really thought about it, but I do think it would be something we could all benefit from. So I appreciate you. Dr. Hillary Goldcher can be contacted through her website, Dr. Hillary LA. She specializes in trauma, depression and anxiety with a focus on family and parenting. And again, if you or someone you know is struggling with an eating disorder, you can reach out to the National Eating disorders association at 1-800-931-2237 or visit nationaleatingdisorders.org and if you're in immediate distress, call or text 988 or text home to 741741. So thank you so much, Dr. Goldcher.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Thank you.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Vulnerable and open. Really moving.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

See you again, hopefully.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Bye. Bye.

[Will Friedle]

Bye.

[Danielle Fishel]

Bye. Well, should we go to trauma therapy together?

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yeah, we could probably. Yeah, we could probably form a group. Group therapy with all 90s.

[Will Friedle]

All 90s fame.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Com kids.

[Will Friedle]

Wow.

[Commercial Voice 2]

No, I, you know, I mean, I. I feel like we've actually said that phrase, fame is trauma on this show before. Like, because I've. I've definitely heard that and said that. And it's. It does. It feels like a little indulgent or complainy, but ultimately it is tr. You know, it's definitely something that still affects me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, me too. And again, you. Do you have that? Because she's right. There's a massive amount of privileges that come with being quote, unquote famous. Even though I'll speak for myself. I mean, I can walk around and very rarely get recognized. And so I get. I kind of have the best of both worlds. And it's still, you know, they're still.

[Commercial Voice 1]

We're human.

[Will Friedle]

There's still problems that I'd like to talk about. And I always still feel like I'm like, well, I don't have the right to complain about this. Like, I live a really good life, so I don't have the right to complain about this. And then I, I have to stop myself and be like, you're not complaining, dude.

[Commercial Voice 2]

You're just.

[Will Friedle]

You're talking about how you feel. And so, you know, you should have the right to do that without feeling like, well, I'm full for even bringing this up, but, hey, I don't feel great right now. Like, it's like, geez, dude. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So hearing her say it. It's trauma work rather than like mantras. When really every day I'm just like, all right, Danielle, you just need to start saying self accepting words. You just need to look in the mirror and tell yourself, you've got this.

[Will Friedle]

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and

[Danielle Fishel]

gosh darn it, people like people like me. She's like, that's not gonna be enough.

[Will Friedle]

It's not gonna work.

[Danielle Fishel]

But what if I do that and have a tummy tuck? What if it's both? Yikes. Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on on Instagram podmeatsworldshowmail.com and you can send us your emails. Podmeetsworldshowmail.com and we've got merch.

[Will Friedle]

I don't even.

[Danielle Fishel]

Fatty, fatty. Fatter, fatter, Fatty. Fatterson. Podmeet's World.

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

Nice.

[Will Friedle]

I was gonna say famous trauma shirts could be kind of fun merch, but who knows?

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

I like that.

[Commercial Voice 2]

That's a good idea.

[Will Friedle]

Shut up and make me laugh. Fat Maddie

[Dr. Hillary Goldsher]

merch.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Amazing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pod meets WorldShow.com writer. Send us out.

[Commercial Voice 2]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischl, Wilfred L And Ryder Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Subaksh, producer, Maddie More, engineer and boy Meets world superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at Pod Meets World show or email us at podmeats world showmail.com

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