Allison M. Gibson Meets World

Summary

Pod Meets World: "Allison M. Gibson Meets World"

Original Release: April 13, 2026 | Host: Danielle Fishel (with Will Friedle and Rider Strong) | Guest: Allison M. Gibson

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Pod Meets World team — Danielle, Will, and Ryder — welcomes accomplished TV comedy writer and producer Allison M. Gibson. Gibson, pivotal writer from Boy Meets World’s later seasons and creator of the smash sitcom Reba, peels back the curtain on the challenges and joys of the writers’ room. The discussion ranges from the unique dynamics of women on staff in the 1990s, the oddities and evolution of Boy Meets World’s final seasons, memorable behind-the-scenes moments, and Gibson’s transition to creating her own classic sitcom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gibson’s Start in TV & Early Career (15:11–24:32)

• Allison shares her start as a writers’ assistant in drama, not comedy. She wrote both drama and comedy “specs” and broke in through comedy ("I came out to Los Angeles to write television, so I actually got jobs writing as a, or as a writer's assistant in drama rooms first." – 15:21).
• She was inspired by “The Mary Tyler Moore Show” as one of the earliest depictions of an independent woman in TV.
• Gibson’s first staff job was on the short-lived Parenthood adaptation—surprisingly star-studded but ultimately “an instant bomb” due to tonal confusion and a rough time slot (22:32–24:32).

2. Breaking Barriers as a Female Comedy Writer (16:22–19:34)

• Gibson details how women had to “pretzel” themselves to fit in with male-dominated writers rooms: "You look back now in the lens about some of the ways we turned ourselves, you know, a little pretzeled ourselves to fit in. And I see that now. I didn't see it then." (16:41).
• She describes becoming "fluent in sports" to join in and carve out a space, and notes that Boy Meets World had the most women she'd seen on staff.
• However, she was still the highest-ranking woman at only co-producer level (18:23).

3. Boy Meets World Writers’ Room Culture (28:51–30:46)

• Joining in Season 6, she recalls the strong existing camaraderie among longtime staff (“They had a rhythm, and I felt like those of us coming in... find that rhythm.”).
• Gibson managed the in-office NFL sports pool, integrating herself with the team.
• She remembers fun end-of-season traditions and tight-knit routines.
• Table reads often determined a script's fate: “If it’s in English, we’re going to the movies, meaning if it’s not the worst thing ever... we were headed to the movies that afternoon.” (30:18).

4. Writing Classic Episodes & Room Challenges (31:03–51:18)

• Cutting the Cord: Gibson received the script — focused on Shawn and Angela’s drama and a memorable Lamaze class/ karaoke scene — likely because she was pregnant at the time (31:03). She loved how the show’s emotional arcs wove into recurring gags and fan service.
• Truth About Honesty: The infamous “toothbrush”/“no tushy, no brushy” episode was pulled from syndication by Disney (“I gasped... no tushy, no brushy is not my personal voice” – 46:53). Inspired by her own family quirks, but surprised how coy the show could be despite later admitting it wasn’t the ending she was proudest of.
• She points out how, even with more women writers, decisions and “final say” still came from male staff and leads.

5. Evolving Characters & Storylines: Late Seasons (33:38–51:18)

• Ryder and Danielle ask about the drastic tonal shifts in Seasons 6–7 and whether writers were expected to catch up on the show’s deep character continuity. Gibson notes the difference from today’s streaming prep: “You’d get on a streaming service and you’d watch every episode and you’d show up way more prepared.” (33:38)
• Later seasons, she says, saw more “laziness” as long-running character chemistry allowed for more outrageous (sometimes nonsensical) plotlines. The audience’s goodwill for beloved characters allowed writers to get away with wilder story choices.
  • “Shows get into that sixth and seventh year... You could all say anything we gave you and make it work and get a laugh” (58:04).
• She points out the impact of different showrunners (Bob Tischler’s more inclusive, “egalitarian” approach vs. Michael Jacobs’ tighter creative control).

6. Gendered POV and Character Arcs (44:33–56:26)

• The hosts challenge the lasting legacy of the Cory/Topanga relationship and season 6–7 storylines, asking whether they reflect realistic romance or Hollywood fantasy. Gibson is candid, crediting audience expectation for the enduring couple but questioning the realism of certain decisions (“I have to say when I went back and watched the Yale discussion… would that show be written that way 10 years later? I’m not sure.” – 45:28).
• She admits discomfort with male-driven gags and “withholding” tropes placed on female characters, even those she wrote, noting these often came from above, not the women in the writers’ room.

7. Behind-the-Scenes: Writers’ Room Mechanics & Legacy (75:35–83:20)

• Gibson outlines differences in running her own show (Reba), including more respect for directors (and why she let them lead with actors), and not burdening actors with “public” notes.
• The notorious Boy Meets World pre-shoot “writers’ table reads” (non-actor staff reading scripts aloud) were unique to the BMPW production and often “killed” jokes in rehearsals.
• She fondly remembers the ritual of the cast’s dance routines for the live studio audience: “It was hilarious... just a golden, weird, funny moment that would only show... that’s a beloved show that’s been on for a long time.” (81:40)

8. Transitioning to Reba — and Bringing “the World” Along (68:13–75:34)

• Gibson describes how, during the final season of BMW, she was writing the spec script for what would become Reba (originally called Sally, written with Sally Field in mind!). The role was recast after Sally Field declined; Reba McEntire herself auditioned and eventually gave the show its title after some network rumbling.
  • "She auditioned for the show that eventually was named after her." (71:39)
  • Ryder notes, “That might be the only time in television history that's ever happened.”
• She brought several Boy Meets World writers to the Reba team but avoided carrying over the entire staff to keep the writers’ room “diverse.”
• Running her own room, she intentionally changed several policies she disliked from BMW (late-night note sessions, male-centric feedback, lack of director respect).

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Memorable & Notable Quotes

• On fitting in as a woman:
  "You look back now... we turned ourselves, you know, a little pretzeled ourselves to fit in. I see that now." – Allison M. Gibson, (16:41)
• On writers’ room culture:
  "If it's in English, we're going to the movies, meaning if it's not the worst thing ever... we're headed to the movies that afternoon." – Allison M. Gibson, (30:18)
• On late-season writing:
  "Shows get into that sixth and seventh year... You could all say anything we gave you and make it work and get a laugh." – Allison M. Gibson, (58:04)
• On multi-cam sitcom rhythms:
  "There's a rhythm to multicam... the audience knows those rhythms and they laugh." – Allison M. Gibson, (58:44)
• On BMW’s gendered creative decisions:
  "All the final say's are from men. And then again, I think we become a victim of your success." – Allison M. Gibson, (48:58)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |---------------------------------------------------|------------| | Intro/Ads (skip) | 00:00–02:51| | Legos Chat (lighthearted banter) | 02:51–07:24| | Welcome & Allison M. Gibson's Introduction | 13:22 | | Early career & breaking into TV writing | 15:11–24:32| | BMW Writers’ room, women’s experiences | 16:22–19:34| | Entry into Boy Meets World | 27:52–30:46| | Writing “Cutting the Cord”, “Truth About Honesty” | 31:03–32:45| | Gendered storylines & “no tushy no brushy” | 44:33–49:25| | Debates & creative conflict in final BMW seasons | 53:06–56:07| | Late-season “Eric” & writing ‘laziness’ | 56:29–58:51| | Showrunning Reba & takeaways from BMW | 75:35–79:00| | Writers’ table reads & dance routines memories | 80:14–81:40| | BMW’s legacy & audience legacy | 82:19–83:20|

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Additional Insights & Running Gags

• “No tushy, no brushy”: This infamous phrase recurs as a comic motif and emblem of the period’s curious standards on sexual innuendo.
• Afterlife of BMW: Gibson and the hosts reflect on the show's surprising longevity and its cultural second life on streaming, with young audiences discovering it anew.
• Writer’s room rituals: NFL sports pools, end-of-season movie days, and cast-audience dance breaks all cemented the community feel.
• “Dance routines”: The late-season in-studio shenanigans (Ben Savage’s shirt removals, audience hysteria) are remembered fondly.
• Reba Origin: Wild story of a show written for Sally Field told with warm amusement at how uniquely the casting and show naming evolved.

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Tone and Language

The episode is candid and nostalgic, with warmth and honesty shining through stories of camaraderie, creative frustration, and female perseverance. The hosts and guest blend humor (“No tushy, no brushy – not my personal voice!”, 46:53), self-deprecation, and the occasional poignant critique of 90s-era gender norms in TV. The conversation is peppered with affectionate ribbing and inside-joke humor befitting three long-time friends and a guest who became part of their creative family.

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Bottom Line

This episode delivers a rich oral history for anyone who grew up with Boy Meets World or loves TV behind-the-scenes tales. Allison M. Gibson gives fans rare insight into the shifting sands of late-90s/early 00s sitcom writing, highlighting both joyous creative collaboration and the frustrations of working for change in a still-male-centric industry. For fans, writers, or sitcom historians, it’s a relatable, revealing, and often laugh-out-loud trip back to TGIF’s final golden era.

Transcript

[Allison M. Gibson]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters.

[Ryder Strong]

Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong, even when life gets busy. Some of the most life giving conversations start with just a phone call.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

That's why AT&T guarantees a network you can rely on so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T guarantee.

[Ryder Strong]

AT and T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguaranty for details. Okay, quick question. How long is too long to leave laundry in the washer?

[Danielle Fishel]

If it smells like a haunted swamp, you've crossed the line.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Relax. That's what arm and hammer deep clean is for.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

Number one claim based on total wash loads.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Sold.

[Ryder Strong]

Danielle, I'm a little nervous to start my Lego set.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Really?

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, I just. Cause I haven't done Legos in a long time, and I'm not a huge puzzle guy. Susan loves puzzles, so it seems like a daunting task to me.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Do you want me to come over

[Danielle Fishel]

and we can start it together?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Sure.

[Ryder Strong]

You've got so much free time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I know it'll have to be at midnight, but do you want me to.

[Allison M. Gibson]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

I haven't done Legos in so long. And the box is literally sitting next to the. And I keep walking by it like, ooh, I wanna do this. I wanna do this.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

No.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Legos are super easy. It's a lot like puzzles.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Cause like, puzzles really. You know, it's like. It starts off so overwhelming.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

It only gets easier as it goes. Like, by hour six of a puzzle, you're finally like, oh, now. No, but.

[Ryder Strong]

But Legos, you really.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

It does go bag by bag, and it's basic instructions.

[Ryder Strong]

Did you do your Lego thing yet?

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

No, I haven't done it. You know, Indy and I, we did a lot of Legos back in the day, which meant I did a lot of Legos while he sat next to me. And then he got obsessed with just the characters. He just wanted to figures and dress them up. So he was like a doll LEGO player. You know, he never really did the sets, so I've been telling him, I'm like, dude, we have to do the Jaws thing. We have to sit down and do it. So, yeah, you've reminded me I'm gonna bring it.

[Ryder Strong]

I was gonna do it the other day, and I walked by and I'm like, oh, it seems like a lot of pieces and a lot of stuff, and, oh, geez, I can't. And then I get anxious and I'm like, I'm not opening the box.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's great because, like Ryder said, you can sit down and say, I'm just gonna do one bag right now.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

And you just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just complete the one bag. And then you're like, okay, I did my Lego for today. And of course, if you're on a roll and you love it, you can open up the second bag. But I ones I don't sit and do it unless I can say, like, okay, I'm gonna commit to at least this many bags. But then it's great because that's a good stopping point, you know, and there's like, it's. It's really easy.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

I did super soothing. It's not like puzzle. Like. Yeah, there's no anxiety. It's just.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, okay.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, good. Because I get my soothing from, like, when I painted minis. I got soothing. So hopefully that'll be the.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

It'll be like that, dude.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. All right, that's good.

[Danielle Fishel]

I will also come over and. And just start. You know, I just got you going

[Ryder Strong]

my door at midnight. Like, come on, let's start. I'm exhausted.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Come on.

[Danielle Fishel]

I. Two hours of sleep. I'm ready to start another project.

[Ryder Strong]

I think we should start another podcast about lego.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ryder Strong]

What does everybody think? Let's start the LEGO podcast. Pod meets lego.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

LEGO meets world.

[Danielle Fishel]

LEGO LEGO meets world.

[Jeresha Hawk]

Lego lego.

[Danielle Fishel]

My Pod meets world.

[Ryder Strong]

Nice.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

When this.

[Ryder Strong]

LEGO meets world.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

No brick. Brick meets world. That's it.

[Danielle Fishel]

There you go.

[Commercial Voice]

Nice.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I think.

[Danielle Fishel]

Good job.

[Ryder Strong]

Have they. Has anybody ever done. Haven't I seen somewhere somebody did a Lego Boy Meets World?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, there was a guy who was trying to get. Yeah, if you get enough votes, they Lego will take it into consideration. Somebody had. Had done a really cool Boy Meets World set. I know I did like that. That would be fun.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, again, Pop came out with Corey and Topanga and we signed Pops everywhere in a K. All right, should there be an Eric and Sean? Of course. Should there be a Plays with Squirrels? Of course. But how do you not do a Feeny?

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

How do you not have Cory, Topanga and Feeny as another Pop? Like, I don't again, I'm the Pop guy. You see him behind me and I keep all the characters I've ever done. And so I of course want an Eric Pop or a Plays with Squirrels Pop. But how is Feeny not the next one you do like?

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Ryder Strong]

You gotta be kidding me. Let's get it together. Funko. I love you, Funko. I love you more than anything. Funko, you are my favorite. You're around here.

[Danielle Fishel]

Reach out to them, Will reach out to them.

[Ryder Strong]

You are the people. See, every time you and Jensen. Every time you could say the most esoteric thing and you're like, oh, I know a guy. Where? I don't know anybody at Funko. It doesn't matter what. It doesn't matter what it is for you and Jensen. You know the person to get it done.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I'm not like that.

[Danielle Fishel]

But like, just look up Goo. Funko PR or. And. And search some names. Random cold email.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, just so just cold call Funko Yes. Oh, in my head, there's a tiny little body with a giant head answering the phone. Like, can I help you?

[Danielle Fishel]

I do know someone who to work at Funko. She's very high up at Funko.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

There I go.

[Ryder Strong]

There you go. That's it.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

See, I took a second.

[Ryder Strong]

Told you. There you go.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'll reach out to you.

[Ryder Strong]

We always joke, Susan and I always joke that if there's a phone call in the middle of the night asking for something, like, you got to get this or you're going to die. You and Jensen are our first call because you always. It doesn't matter what it is. I need a golden drumstick that's actually made of Pez and Jensen's. Like, oh, yeah, I know. I got the best golden drumstick, PEZ guy. Like, it's ridiculous, everybody. So, yeah, get it, get it done. Danielle and Jensen.

[Danielle Fishel]

All right, all right, all right.

[Ryder Strong]

We need the Lego and I need some Funko pops. So let's go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Welcome to Podmeats World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm Ryder Strong, and I know Danielle Fishel. I'm Wilfred Ellis. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccine should you consider before a big trip? And even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I think about brain health, I think about staying sharp, remembering why I walked into a room finishing a sentence without buffering mid thought. And nowadays that can feel unpossible.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Learn more and join Function using our link. Visit www.functionhealth.com meetsworld or use the gift code meetsworld25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. Hi, this is Rider Strong and Will

[Ryder Strong]

Friedle from Pod Meets World.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

When I think of important phone calls, I think about one from 30 years ago that changed my life forever. I remember getting word that I was cast on a new Friday night sitcom called Boy Meets World in a phone call from the agent and the rest is history.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, did you know that 2026 will mark the 150th anniversary of the first ever phone call. It took place on March 10, 1876.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

And from the call that sparked it all, from the first long distance phone

[Ryder Strong]

lines to the first lines across America and the first lines across the Atlantic,

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

to the first round the world call, the first commercial cell service and the

[Ryder Strong]

first 911 system, AT&T has been connecting people for 150 years in so many different ways.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Can you imagine all the important phone calls that have taken place over 150 years?

[Ryder Strong]

How many lives were saved?

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

How many people asked if your refrigerator is running?

[Ryder Strong]

You hang up first.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

No, you hang up first.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, let's just hang up at the same time.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

It's been 150 years of connecting an absolutely mind blowing stat and one of

[Ryder Strong]

the reasons it's come this far is AT&T. Thanks. AT&T and happy birthday phone calls.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Connecting changes everything.

[Ryder Strong]

AT&T and now insights into TurboTax business.

[TurboTax Host]

Jerisha, your journey is pretty incredible. Engineer turned entrepreneur and now you're helping hundreds of coaches and freelancers build thriving businesses. What made you realize you didn't have to do it all alone?

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[TurboTax Host]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

Jeresha, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Jeresha Hawk]

I'm really happy to be here.

[Ryder Strong]

Thanks for having me giving you the

[TurboTax Host]

inside tips on your small business taxes.

[Danielle Fishel]

As we find ourselves winding down with recaps slightly confused with the final season of Boy Meets World, we know the only way to fully understand our show's last few heartbeats is to dig even deeper into the writers room. And somehow, even after hundreds of episodes, we still have Some unturned stones. I can't believe it either. And while some of our guests have Boy Meets World as the shining centerpiece of their IMDb page, our guest this week went right from Feeny's teary eyed classroom to creating Reba, her own smash hit sitcom within a year. But before that, she wrote four Boy Meets World episodes. Season six's Cutting the Cord and the Truth About Honesty and season seven's you Light Up My Union and the yet to be reviewed the War, which we may have to bring her back for her other credits include Home Improvement, Sister Sister, Two Guys, A Girl in a Pizza Place, and most recently, Awkward. But today we are asking her to rewind 25 years and recall everything she can about the TGIF show where she decided to have me sing War for a tag. Welcome to Pod Meets World. Writer and producer Allison M. Gibson.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Hi, Alison.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I'm so happy to see you guys again. Last time I saw you, we were carrying little signs and walking around the block.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is, this is so much more enjoyable. We are knee deep in season seven and we have a lot of lay of the land questions. So we hope you have a superhuman memory.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

You know, I have a superhuman memory. I rewatched and I even took notes because,

[Danielle Fishel]

oh, I love it.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

There were things that surprised me, so I needed to go back and go, what? I can't believe that.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Okay. Oh, cool.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, first, let's talk about your start in these writers rooms. Was your career goal to always be a comedy writer?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I came out to Los Angeles to write television, so I actually got jobs writing as a, or as a writer's assistant in drama rooms first.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Oh.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

So I was writing spec scripts on my, you know, nights and weekends and I wrote drama specs and comedy specs and I just got my break in comedy, but I think I always wanted to be in comedy. Big fan of the Mary Tyler Moore show and a lot of those genre where she sort of like broke the world open for women and being independent in the entertainment industry. So I loved comedy and a lot of comedy writers transition into drama, but usually the drama writers don't go the other way. So I felt like I had that option.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

So that translates a little bit. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, they do say it's easier to make somebody cry than it is to make them laugh, but who knows if it's the same in the writing world.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah. And I can make myself cry and laugh sitting at the computer and so

[Allison M. Gibson]

that's what I love to do.

[Danielle Fishel]

We've Talked with a few of the other female writers like Barbie Feldman, Susan Estelle Jansen, who have all detailed about how difficult it was for women to break into these boys clubs back then. It's almost like you had a second job just to assimilate and go along with the fart jokes. Was that difficult in your experience?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

You know, it's very interesting. I speak fluent sports and I remember I had interviewed for this show twice, one year earlier, a few years on, and I remember coming in and there was like seven women, 10 women in the hallway. And I thought, oh, this is going to be interesting. And I was ill prepared for that meeting for a variety of reasons. Back then you had to just sit down and you didn't necessarily have all the tapes and you hadn't seen everything. And when I came in for this interview, I remember they were all talking about the Lakers, Tischler and Jacobs and Mano. And I'm a rabid sports fan and my dad had season tickets to the Rockets and I went to football games since I was 2 years old. So I just walked in talking sports and to be honest, I think that helps and I'm comfortable in that environment. So you look back now in the lens about some of the ways we turned ourselves, you know, a little pretzeled ourselves to fit in. And I see that now. I didn't see it then. I just thought this is mostly a man's world. This is what these guys talk about. I've been around this, it doesn't scare me. And so I'm coming in strong with that. And I really think I got the job. I mean, they had great staff that read people ahead of time before you got into these meetings. But I also thought I walked in and I can hang with the boys and that really was a requirement. However, that's the show with the most women I've ever had on a staff in my entire career.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, those later seasons had the most amount of women.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah. And now I came in at co producer and I believe I was the highest level woman for both those two years, which is not that high when you think about it.

[Jeresha Hawk]

Right, right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

But yeah, but there were a lot of us and so there was, you know, that voice was in there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

But I came in at a time too. So coming in, in a season six, there was a bit of a boys club there. Right. And all of those men had been there forever. And frankly, you guys had been there forever. Yeah, Like I felt like I don't even know if we ever got properly introduced. You just Sort of get thrown into the soup of a show, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

In my mind, you guys were these grizzled veterans that were like half your

[Allison M. Gibson]

life you've been on this show and,

[Ryder Strong]

you know,

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

not absolute professionals. And I felt like, you know, I'm what, 10, 15 years older, and I feel like the newbie coming in, you know, on my third or fourth show I've been on or something like that, and just like, you know, come on, ride for the show. These people know what they're doing. Let's don't it up in the next. Excuse me.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I don't know if I should.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Anyway, so it's sort of an interesting feeling coming into that. You have a show that has. That's very successful, it's evolving because obviously I didn't get to come in and write you guys in elementary school classes with Mr. Feeney. But it. It definitely feels like the train is on the track and it's moving and you have a responsibility, you know, to move it forward, but also maintain it and its loyalty. And. And I just thought you guys were, you know, the ultimate pros. And I was sort of, you know, one of the rookies coming in to. To kind of try to keep the train on the track.

[Ryder Strong]

Now you said that. So for the first meeting, and again, you're right, it was. If you didn't watch the show at the time there were.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

It.

[Ryder Strong]

I think TiVo was maybe just starting to come around. But had you seen or heard of Boy Meets World before the first time you interviewed?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I had seen it when it premiered. But, you know, as a working television writer, I wasn't home those hours. Multicam riders, multicam writers are, you know, we work till 10pm on a good night. So I was never home to see. I certainly wasn't home on Friday night. So I had seen it occasionally caught it on a rerun here or there. But what they did back in that day, if your agent was good, is they would messenger to your house a VHS tape with three episodes on it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And so you would watch that.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And I remember.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I don't remember what year I came in, but it was another time I was in between jobs and they asked me about the Sean arc and I had seen three episodes and I.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

You're like, which one's Shaun? Not know which one.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Pretty embarrassing that I didn't know that. But honestly, often you would just get a call. We're messenger in your tape tonight. There's three episodes going tomorrow. And, you know, sometimes you're prepared for that and sometimes you aren't. So I think second time coming in, when they're talking Lakers, that's my lane. I'm ready to go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, you were ready to go.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I love the show. Yeah, I love the show. I love the characters. William Daniels, like, oh, one of my favorite people in the world.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I was a big St. Elsewhere fan, so I just was like thrilled to meet him. Although he wasn't in many of my shows, oddly enough, or my episodes.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

But I was thrilled to work with him and super excited. And I'm old enough that I remember when 17, 1776, the movie came out in 1976. So. And I had the soundtrack for that. And anyway, I just, I just thought he was the greatest thing in the world. So that was super exciting for me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your first TV gig was the TV adaptation of Parenthood, not the Jason Katums one from 2010, but this was in 1990. So, guys, listen to this cast. Ed Begley Jr. Jane Atkinson, Ken Ober, David Arquette, Thora Birch, and a young Leonardo DiCaprio. How did this only go one season?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Isn't that insane? It is. It's just crazy when you look back on it in that time period. And this was my, my first staff job. My first.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Staff job as a writer. There were mostly multicams, live audience. Then they didn't have the single cam. You know, now that's the cool thing to do. And you know, even some people critically, they always like the single cams, though it's the multicams that last forever.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

But I don't think NBC knew what to do with it. They made a one hour pilot that was written by Lol Ganza and Bobbly Mandel, who wrote the Parenthood movie and a million other movies. And NBC bought it as an hour. I don't know what happened. And then they decided and they made a wonderful hour pilot that felt more like the Jason Katum version later. And then someone said, let's do it as a half hour, single camera. And they buried it on a Saturday night between two multicams. And to be honest, I don't think the audience knew what to do with it. I don't think they quite understood it. And so we were an instant bomb. Did very poorly. And I wrote the last episode that was shot. And so, you know, pre social media, whatever, I sent out a little postcard to all my family and friends telling them. And I think it's like December 13th, my show is going to run or whatever. And the day before they preempted it, said oh, we're gonna bury the rest of the shows. We'll rerun them one more time in the spring. And so Tim's run,

[Ryder Strong]

was it based on the. Was it the same characters as the film, or was it a different family?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

No, it's the same thing.

[Ryder Strong]

It was. Okay. Okay.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So Ed Begley was Steve Martin in the show Gotcha.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And another guy.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I love Ed Begley. So he also was a St. Elsewhere star. So I got to work with Ed Begley and then William Daniels, you know, a few years later. It was like. It was a dream for me. You know, kid from Texas coming to US Hollywood, working with my idols.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was a big trend at the time to make TV shows out of movies, and all of them failed. Some other ones from that same year were Baby Talk, which was based on look who's Talking, Ferris Bueller and Uncle Buck. So it just seemed like something that just didn't take off with audiences.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Great movies.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Great, great movies.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And, oh, that cast, William Windham. I mean, it was phenomenal. And, yeah, I keep always wanting to run into Leo and tell him how

[Allison M. Gibson]

we met,

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

but have it work with David Arquette later again and Ed Begley as well. But Leo, he's been busy. Apparently, he's doing all right.

[Danielle Fishel]

He's doing okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, he's doing okay. Wait, so was he the Leaf at the time? Leaf Phoenix character? Yes, the young, troubled kid. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to put the cast together in my head. I'm trying to see. Yeah, interesting.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. So after that show gets canceled, you find yourself on America's number one show, Home Improvement. I mean, really a case of landing on your feet. I'm sure this room had some heavyweights in it, and you're still, at this point, pretty green. How did you. Or did you ever experience any sort of imposter syndrome or just nerves in general?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I think early on, I was a little too naive to know to be as nervous as I probably should have been. I will say it was an extreme. I did work with Susan a year. It was an extremely difficult room.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And there was a lot of hierarchy, so we were not even on the stage when the show shot.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Oh.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

So they had a writer's room and a TV screen up for us. So we weren't involved at all in the shooting unless it was your episode. And even then, you sat in the audience. So it was very much run by the top three guys.

[Ryder Strong]

You sat in the audience for your own episode?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

For your own episode, yes. Now, remember, too, my early jobs were Hour longs.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And then my first half hour is a single camera. So I didn't know how weird it was. Again, I didn't know how naive and how strange things were done there. But it was done very strange. You know what I learned later? And we were kept out of things. There were generally two writers rooms, often at a time. Basically the three head writers and a couple people working, and then everyone would rotate out. It was a very strange situation.

[Allison M. Gibson]

It was. Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

It was not a. It was not a great situation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay. How long were you on that show?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Just the first year.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just that first year.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

It's funny, I got. I got engaged while I was on that show, which was on the Disney lot.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And then I got pregnant while I was on the Disney lot. While I was on your show. So I do have fond memories of the Disney lot.

[Danielle Fishel]

So do we. We love the Disney lot.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah, it's a great lot.

[Danielle Fishel]

After Home Improvement, you make a few stops on shows like Sister Sister and another one called Fudge. That sounds delicious. And then Boy Meets World. How did Boy Meets World end up in your orbit? I know you had said you had that first interview that you didn't feel prepared for. How did you. Who called you about the second interview?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Okay. We missed a couple of girls. Also show called Kirk.

[Danielle Fishel]

I worked on Kirk.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Oh, you did.

[Ryder Strong]

You were on Kirk? I did.

[Danielle Fishel]

Guest star. A guest star on Kirk.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I take it that's Kirk Cameron.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah, Kirk Cameron. Yeah. And Migo with Bronson Finchaud. Okay, so. And now you have to remind me of the question, how did I end up there?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who called you for that second. For that second interview?

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

You know, your agent just calls and says there's a. We're sending three things over. Go over there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And I'm Dawn Tarnowski.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah. She was Michael's head of development.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And she had had me on her radar for a while.

[Danielle Fishel]

Great.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And so I think that was part of how that, you know, she had me a slot came open again, and so I came over for that. And dawn was great. She's a really smart woman and went on to do a million amazing things.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, we loved Dawn.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so what was entering the Boy Meets World writers room in season six? Like you mentioned, they were talking a lot of sports. What we had heard from Minnell, especially about season seven, that there was maybe a lot of tenant being played.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah, I guess Michael was tennis. I. I played tennis. But out there, there was a lot of sports talk. And so when I came in, in season six, I took over the sports pool, so I ran the sports.

[Danielle Fishel]

So cool.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I passed out the. The NFL games and the spread. I think I started at season six. I know I did it Season seven over once a week. We put that out, and everyone picked their pick and figured out who won at the end of the week. And we had a pool at the end of the season. I think it was a pretty friendly room. Again, I feel like there was a group that really knew each other very well and the rest of us that were sort of working our way in, but it was a fun group. They had their routines, they had the way they like to do, where they like to eat, what they did. And so it felt like you were trying to sometimes, you know, staff comes together and sort of coalesce and find your rhythm. They had a rhythm, and I felt like those of us coming in, it was our job to sort of find that rhythm. And season sevens, you know, they knew it wasn't going to go past that unless there was some evolvement. And so, you know, those are the most fun times.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And, yeah, I remember we had. I think my episode was next, and Michael said, we're going to do a table ready. And then he said his way of saying, if it's in English, we're going to the movies, meaning if it's not the worst thing ever on the world. We were headed to the movies that afternoon. And so that's, you know, sort of at the end of seasons. That was really. Those were fun times because you weren't working ahead on the next season. I remember that. And thank goodness my script was in English. And on we moved.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Your first script was Cutting the Cord, which was focused on some Shawn and Angela drama, but it included the somewhat infamous karaoke scene. Sort of a heavy world to start with. What do you remember from that episode?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Well, I'm pretty sure I got that one because I was pregnant.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So. And I don't remember whether I had started birthing classes or not, but I'm sure that's why that episode ended up with mine being mine. And I thought that was super fun. And I loved everything you got to do in there. Will, that was so cute.

[Ryder Strong]

That was the Lamaze class, right?

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

That was so much fun. That was super fun. And the Angela, you know, we always loved the drama of the Angela and Sean, and it was fun. I just. And I watched it again recently, and I laughed out loud with the restraining order because I thought that was so appropriate. There's so many things that can show up in later Seasons that. Because we know you and what you've done and the history that all that plays. That's fun. That plays. But when shows start becoming not just about the episode, but also about the history of them in those later seasons and they sort of play on each other, I think that's really fun. So I loved it. I loved the karaoke and the tag. When you and Ben are like, killing war was just hilarious. I loved it.

[Danielle Fishel]

We had a big conversation about what that original tag was. Were we just breaking. Were, you know, like, what was it always supposed to be? Us laughing. Like, we. We talked a lot about what that original tag was. Was written as.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I cannot remember.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, that's so funny.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I mean, I don't know, you know, the way it was edited, we didn't get much of it in the first pass. So, yeah, I would. Whether there was another tag written or we just said we have to get more of that moment, it's gold.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

So funny.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, that's. That's likely what was.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

What happened.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I don't remember whether it was from the top or. Again, I didn't. I watch the scripts, but I didn't actually look for them. So I was curious to see if there was a first draft, different tag.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I would love that. If you can find it, we would love to see it.

[Ryder Strong]

The other thing I'm so curious about is there's writers filtering in and out kind of every season. And when you're on a long running show, when you join the writing staff, do they sit you in a room or tell you, like, start from episode one, watch the pilot and move forward, watch every episode of the show? So you get here because we've noticed you come to season seven and our characters are so different than what they used to be. It was kind of like everything was thrown out the window. So we're wondering, I mean, again, is it the kind of thing where you've got to learn about the history of Topanga, you've got to learn about the history of Cory and Topanga, you've got to learn about Sean. Or are you just thrown in and let's write the characters from here?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Well, you know, it's very different than today because today you'd get on a streaming service and you'd watch every episode and you would show up, up way more prepared. I learned things about your characters and about your personal experiences by listening to Pod meets World that I didn't know, that I didn't know we violated in season six. However, I wasn't there to say that but there was plenty of men in that room that could have say, that doesn't. That doesn't j. You know, so I also think there's a couple, you know, we brought Maitland came in in season six.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

That's right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And I do think that there was a. A, A push. And you're saying you mostly noticed it in seven. And look, sharks happen in seven. Yeah. Look, I, I don't know if we're gonna get there. I mean, but, you know, I didn't even know what an organ grinder was. And I had one of the episodes. If that's. If that's not a shark jump. I love the emotion of it.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure, sure.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah. And he was dressed like he came off the set of wants to play. I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I. Yeah. I can promise you in the room, someone pitched, what if it's an organ grinder? And because we didn't have Google, then I went to.

[TurboTax Host]

What?

[Ryder Strong]

Surprised?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Because I had no. I mean, once some. Someone told me what it was, but I don't know how that came about.

[Ryder Strong]

I think we all agree it's the second monkey that sold it.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Little Eric's girlfriend.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. That's the one that really.

[Allison M. Gibson]

That's.

[Ryder Strong]

Now we're there.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And Eric Christmas is just a legend. An incredible, rest in peace, fantastic actor. But as I watched that, he played the whole thing as a scam. Without that, it wasn't right. And so to me, I'm like, what are we doing to. I mean, you know, overall, thematically, and I think that's what people gravitate.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

And I think.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I think people you over learn certain things when you know the history of a show, you know, the fact that Eric's charm has a place in this world and a place in business and shouldn't be overlooked, I thought was wonderful and watched it. I went, oh, thank goodness we got to a nice place. But when I watched that performance and the other thing, Matthew took that money and gave it to us Ranger with no way to pay it back. Now Eric thinks that the monkey's gonna come back and give him the money. But what is Matthew exactly? It's just absolutely bizarre.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So, yeah, again, you know, was there a great theme there that we had that somehow we got bigger and bigger with? I don't know. There's another thing that happens when shows get into that sixth and seventh year, you know, Will, you could walk out there and say holy bananas out of context, and the audience is just gonna go, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right. You know, they. They just, you know, there's so much history. And if you and, you know, Danielle, you and Corey bicker, whatever you say to each other, if it's meaningless, we laugh because we're just invested in you and we love you and you can pretty much do no wrong. And that helps the show and it also hurts the show because writers can get very lazy because you go to a run through and like, are you kidding? That joke killed. Let's go home tonight. You know, now, I don't want to accuse anyone of that, but I just. It gets more complicated in those later years. Also in season six, Bob Tischler ran the room more. And I think at least what I detect from the shows I watched and whatever, I think that season had a little bit of a different feel to it. And one of the things that was going on, they were trying to get a little more friends, like, and I think the apartment was set up and trying to have them be just more like this multi group of friends making it out in the world. And I think there was a concerted effort to sort of set that up. I know one of my episodes with the Dinner party was sort of approaching that sort of that tone, which I think my memory was a network directive starting of the year. And I think Michael had another project. And so my first experience with the show was that Bob Tischler ran the room almost all the time. And then season seven, that switched and Michael ran the room all the time.

[Ryder Strong]

I want to say season six, Michael was gone for Zoe, Duncan, Jack and Jane.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm pretty sure that's the one because I did an episode of it and I had the long hair. So my guess is that's the season he was gone and Bob was running the room. That makes sense. But yeah, season seven comes back. It's different. Yeah, yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And that was my first experience of the show, is that Michael came in for some table reads and some notes, but that Bob ran. And Bob also, RIP was a super funny man, a delight to work with always. I just loved the way he ran the room and it was very egalitarian the way he did it. And he had always had a great spirit. I don't think I ever saw Bob in a bad mood, which is certainly. I can't say for every show I've ever been on. So, yeah, he was a delight. And that might have just been a little bit of a different tone because he was, you know, the head writer at that time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right.

[Ryder Strong]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

Jeresha, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Jeresha Hawk]

I'm really happy to be here.

[Ryder Strong]

Thanks for having me giving you the

[TurboTax Host]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. I mean, think about the oldest home video your family has. I'm talking birthdays, Christmas mornings, awkward school performances of Annie where you play a bush.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh yes, we've been a bush.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

All those memories are just sitting in a box somewhere, slowly mutating, breaking aging into dust.

[Ryder Strong]

Well now with Legacy Box's spring cleaning sale, you can finally do something about it. Digitize those memories for just $9 a tape and actually watch them again.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Ryder Strong]

And over 1.5 million families have already trusted Legacy Box with their memories. So you know it's legit.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, the podcast even used Legacy Box. Ryder sent in old unmarked camcorder tapes from the 90s and we saved some old behind the scenes footage from the Boy Meets World set. But it was mostly just him and his brother climbing trees, which I love.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Danielle Fishel]

We've all been there. You just need 10 minutes of peace and quiet to calm your overstimulation while finishing a peanut butter cup and hiding behind the refrigerator door. Just me. Oh, okay. Well, you want to give your kids something to do, but you want it to Be good content, not something that sends them into an endless loop of clips that you have to worry about 24. 7. That's where lingokids comes in. It's an App for Kids 2 to 8 that focuses on pure interactive joy. It turns their screen time into an adventure where they're exploring and playing in a safe space built just for them. You get a moment to breathe, and they get an experience they're actually excited about. It's the kind of win, win every parent needs. Lingokids. Everything kids love. Give your kids the play they love. And hand me that peanut butter cup. Download the Lingokids app now on your phone or tablet, and it's free. Do you think Cory and Topanga were a good couple?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Well, I would have to ask you what good means. Yeah, I mean, certainly the audience loved you together was really good together. And I think it's a falseness of Hollywood storytelling that we want people who meet at young ages to stay together forever, to evolve together and make all life choices. This together. I. I remember when my daughter cried when the. The Twilight couple broke up because, gosh, they were together in the movie and through all four, and then they broke up, you know, but it's also. I remember when his aunt in England said, They're 22. Yeah, right. And they've been together like six years. Were they going to stay together their whole lives? So, you know, I think there's audience expectation for couples and then there's realistic writing. And I don't know that that's necessarily what the multicams are based for.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I have to say, when I went back and watched the Yale discussion and that being reminded that Topanga gave up Yale to be near Corey, would that show and be written that way 10 years later? I'm not sure.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right, right. The episode you mentioned, the dinner party episode, is the truth about honesty. And it's Topanga's drama around sharing a toothbrush with Corey. That is one of the three episodes that was banned from the Disney Channel during syndication. Were you surprised to hear that?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Oh, wow. I didn't know that I'm missing checks.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Disney Channel checks.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Allison M. Gibson]

You know, okay, so. So I sat down to watch it, and my older sister had an issue with using her husband's razor, and they had fights about that. So I believe that this story started out of a real thing from my life.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love that.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Which is a lot of what I think really good stuff comes from. I had forgotten about the toothbrush thing, to be honest. And although that's an Issue because I forget my toothbrush sometimes and I'll use my husband's, and he's a good sport about that. But when I saw this exchange, no tushy, no brushy, I really almost gasped.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Right. Yep.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I'm gonna be honest. I went, are you? I was like, what? I will say no tushy, no brushy is not my personal voice, so I

[Danielle Fishel]

didn't think it was.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Really?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

You know, that's not your voice.

[Ryder Strong]

If you want a fun drinking game, though, take a shot. Every time we say tushy in the last two seasons, tushy is a big favorite word.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And, you know, come in at a Corey. It's cute. But is it? Well, you know what? It's a cute word, except in what he's trying to get you do, which, frankly, I just don't think is right. And I think. And the compromise she made at the end, I was trying to like. Like, where did the first draft of this go and how did it get? Because, yeah, I was not proud of that ending at all. And it's too bad because I was watching it. I really liked the episode. I think I identified a little bit with Rachel in the sense that she was coming into this arty group of friends, had all these relationships, all these histories, and now she's got to fit in and find herself. So I liked writing for. In the episodes, which is also a

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

nice development for Rachel because so often she's just been the object of Eric and Jack's scrambling love triangle, you know, and so for her to have her

[Allison M. Gibson]

own, I guess she's. Yeah, she's in lingerie. Far too much for my. That's not a decision that I was in charge of.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. For all of the women that we had in the writers room, seasons six and seven especially, there are still a lot of choices made in those episodes where you go, oh, I can tell. Where someone was overwritten, like where there was some outside.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

It's very clearly a male pov.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

I mean, there's a show that's driven by a male pov.

[Ryder Strong]

It's called Boy Meets World.

[Allison M. Gibson]

It is Boy Meets World. And all the final say's are from men. And then again, I think we become a victim of your success. Yes. Because while I can go, guys, I don't know. Are you sure? You go down to set, no tushy, no brushy. I'm sure. Everyone roared. Right, right, right, right. So you go, oh, well, maybe I didn't see it right or right, right. Well, it's funny.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

But It's.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. I. I had. Anyway, it's too bad because I actually liked her. I think there's. That. What we were trying to do a little bit. You know, there's coming out of college and what is a party? Well, we got the six packs and wine, and we have chips and dip. That's a party.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And then when you start getting a little later in your 20s, you think, I might actually serve a meal. And we, you know, we could sit down and be civilized. And. And. And you're sort of trying to find yourself. And I thought, you know, I liked Rachel trying to find her identity and who is. Who is she in this? And can we be a little more grown up instead of acting like the sort of kids we did? And I liked that, and I liked the way I. It was shot and it played through there. And I like the idea of, is true honesty good in a relationship and is it not? And I think. I think Topanga's thoughts on that was a tiny bit naive, because it's great. We want honesty. But on the other hand, you know, again, I think that's a very young point of view. You get a little older and you go, you know what? A little. A little distance or a little perspective on what people need to know and don't need to know is better.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Not every thought that enters my head needs to be said out loud. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

That's not a lie. That's not a lie.

[Allison M. Gibson]

But I think that's a very young girl. We've been taught honesty is important, and that's what makes relationships last. So I totally buy her point of view in that.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure.

[Allison M. Gibson]

But how it went to Tushy Brushy, and how did you feel about walking back in the room saying you had shown him your tush?

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. I mean, I really. We've talked about it now, especially with season seven, but I had. I don't know exactly when it was that it happened, but I. There was a certain point where I. Where I checked out, where I realized, like, they're in Cory. And the Cory and Topanga dynamic had just become him badgering her and trying to wear her down. And, you know, I. Even though, to be totally fair, I think at the time, I also thought, yeah, why is Topanga such a prude? Why is Topanga. You know, there were. There. I was judgmental of her as a character because I. You know, our set was very male dominated. It was a boy pov. And I think I did have that feeling of, like, Topanga is withholding from this, you know, they're in a, they're in a committed relationship. What's the big deal? So I don't remember exactly how I felt, but I do remember feeling like, oh man, this is just going to keep being this conversation back and forth until they get married.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And I, I think it was a, it's definitely a disservice to your character in the sense you're right, you were in a committed long term relationship. But it did feel like a withholding. It's very stereotypical.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Not that this doesn't go on. I mean, look at every episode of, you know, Everybody Loves Raymond. You know, he wants sex. She's like. And, you know, I do feel like, like I didn't feel good about it. I didn't think it was great. I felt like a lot of things. I found the inner theme where I feel like it started and then there was where it went to. Yeah. And the idea that somehow also revealing a tush was somehow a step in

[Ryder Strong]

the right direction or something that was

[Allison M. Gibson]

an erotic and somehow got them closer and a willing exchange for the situation. It's just bizarre. It's just bizarre. So I guess I'm glad I'm banned, but darn it, money out of my bank.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you remember maybe especially in season seven, because you spoke so highly of the writer's room in season six. Do you remember any moments of conflict over storylines or character development? Was there ever big back and forth about what an episode was going to be about out?

[Allison M. Gibson]

I think there was a lot of debate about the getting married. I think there was a lot of debate, I guess Yale was season six or was it seven? I think there was a lot of debate about Yale. I think there was a lot of debate about should we get them married. I think Michael absolutely had the vision on we're going to have the baby come in. And he wanted it to be a premature baby like one of his sons was. That train was going. There was no, you know, there was no stopping that. And I remember I asked one time, I think I was again, best recollection possible could be wrong. But I think I was wondering why, if they were going to get married, that maybe they didn't even move home or something, like, where were they going to get the money for that situation? And, and I'll confess, I said, how are they going to get the money? And they said, they're going to get the money from the wedding. And I said, how do they get money from a wedding? And it was because it was a tradition to Give cash for the wedding. But I had not experienced that where I grew up in the south, where you gave a plate set instead of money, nobody gave cash. But Michael, that experience was very important and traditional. And so I remember, I think he was. He was mad at me for. For questioning that situation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And it was again, you know, again, something I've been accused of a lot. It was my own naivete. I didn't know that was a tradition.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right. Well, I don't think the majority of people come away from weddings feeling like they have suddenly a lot of money. Flush with the opposition.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

You feel like, wow, we just spent so much money on a wedding. Now we've got to rebuild our life because we spent it on the wedding.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, it was so, you know, I do think there was discussions about that. I certainly wouldn't been in favor of her not going to Yale, and I would guess we talked about that. But I also, again, you know, I started as a co producer season six. I was producer on seven. That was the highest level woman in the room. And there were two supervising, two co. Exact. An exec. You know, it was a lot. And a. Consulting all, you know, five or six men higher than me at the time. And I'm not saying that in a judgmental way. I'm just saying the final say was not in the female voices.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right. Now, we were allowed to speak. You know, we were allowed to speak, but ultimately we did not have final say.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

So.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And I obviously, I didn't walk off and say, you know, no tushy, no brushy. I don't want to do this show. But my guess is I sat there kind of like you, Danielle, and I went. People laughing. Yeah, it must be good. I guess maybe I'm a little prude. I don't know. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wouldn't be my taste. But what do I know? Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Is that then kind of. Can we kind of attribute that to how then Eric turned into season seven? Eric, who's so big and so off the rails? I mean, was it just kind of like, well, let's write it big and it's funny?

[Allison M. Gibson]

You know, I think there's a laziness to later season story writing, and I think that's more common when you have people that have been there the whole time. I actually don't attribute that to the people coming in. If you. If you got to really dive in and find the stories and the character growth, or you just write what is already a winning formula.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

You're just reiterating as opposed to being creative to the same degree. That makes perfect sense.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah. You know, you can either get in and write and find layers to Eric or like I said, you could say anything and people laughed and loved you. And so I think it's. So unless you have someone that is really reigning that in and you know, and also going to run through some whatever and like, let's find the meat of, of this scene and let's make it work and not get an easy laugh because you can go down and you have a bad scene and if you get a great blow and people are tired and want to go, it doesn't get the work it needs. And that's really important not to get the cheap laughs because. And it's again, it's later seasons versus earlier seasons because you could all say anything we gave you and make it work and get a laugh. There's, as you know, there's a rhythm to multicam.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And we, the audience knows those rhythms and they laugh. I, I remember when my father came out and watched a. One of my first multicams and he saw us standing behind the, the cameras laughing. And he'd see us, you know, me laugh on first take, third take, whatever. And he goes, you know what the punchline is? Why do you keep laughing? And I said, well, because they delivered it well and had the right rhythm and I want them to feel it. And because they, it is a funny joke. But audiences are like that too. And they're laughing and they love you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And. And they'll laugh at a good joke and they'll laugh at a terrible joke because you gave a terrible joke and you maybe rolled your eyes at them or whatever. So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Was there a conscious discussion in the room? Let's make Eric bigger? I don't believe that's the case.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, but did I see a monkey? And has Nessie. Why couldn't they Disney ban that one?

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah, right.

[Ryder Strong]

Cuz again, there's two monkeys. That's what makes it work.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I hope they're getting their residuals because they were great.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, that was Marcel. Was Marcel from.

[Danielle Fishel]

Marcel was one of them.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, first season seven, we had a Friends crossover. How about that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, exactly.

[Allison M. Gibson]

There you go.

[Danielle Fishel]

For season seven. We have already seen one of your two episodes so far. We have seen you light Up My Union, which is a wild episode. I think we got most hung up on the invasion of Rachel's privacy. Do you have any memories of developing her character or maybe lack thereof? Developing her character.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So that was another moment for Me watching it.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And I try. I was trying to put it in context. If you, if this was an early season of a show, I don't think you're forgiven. You're forgiven the men for what they did, for crossing those boundaries and all of that. And I also think it's just such a cheap. Again, it's this voyeuristic. Women are withholding, men are.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, it was such a trope in the 90s though.

[Danielle Fishel]

The.

[Allison M. Gibson]

It definitely is.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

But so to me, I find what, you know, what was done reprehensible. But I think what happens is it's the time we, we know Corey and Sean, we've seen them since they're kids. They don't have ill intentions. They're just sweet, crazy boys. Like you overlook stuff because we know that them. Right, right. So for new generations that watch it from the beginning and binge it, they're probably like, oh, that's creepy. But oh my God, they're sweet. She needs to get over it. Right, right, right. But if you just stopped and watched the show like I did, out of context, you're like, now what? Yeah, this is wrong. This is why. And, and why are the girls like over forgiving it and not defending her? Right. Because this is the ultimate invasion of privacy and boundaries. But again, I think it's because you're trapped in the same story. You've known them forever. You know, they're not creepy guys who, you know, go out and do this and so you overlook it. But that said, I think it's a story flaw and I, you know, I don't think it's a good message.

[Ryder Strong]

That's true though. You do get that with, with long term television shows, the long running series where you bank so much goodwill with the characters.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

That you can, can dip into that bank and have them do some pretty horrible things and it's okay because of the history.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, they have goodwill.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. It's really interesting to look at it that way because it's true. You are your. We had one guest, come on. Who said that Eric could. Eric could even say the worst things in the world, but people like him so much and he has such that. That bank of goodwill that you can dip into that whenever you need to kind of take him in another direction. So it really is an interesting way to look at that where it is. It's disgusting. Reprehensible. But you're right. Even Topanga goes like, how do you not love.

[Danielle Fishel]

Look how cute they are.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So it is. You're using that kind of the goodwill you've banked over that number of seasons. It's a really interesting way to look at it. Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah. And the audience knows if they've been watching from the beginning. You know, these are not bad guys. They're just, you know, they made a mistake or they did a prank or it was silly. But you know, they're not creepers. Right. But if you watch it out of context, you don't have that goodwill. Like what the. What. That's.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

It is reprehensible. And again, it's sort of the flaw of this long term storytelling that we, with characters we fall in love with, you get away with a lot.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So. Yeah. Not. Not thrilled with that either.

[Danielle Fishel]

We all. We have that. We have those moments.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

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[Jeresha Hawk]

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[TurboTax Host]

Jresha, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Jeresha Hawk]

I'm really happy to be here.

[Ryder Strong]

Thanks for having me giving you the

[TurboTax Host]

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[Allison M. Gibson]

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[Allison M. Gibson]

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[Danielle Fishel]

A year after Boy Meets World ended, you created Reba, a massive sitcom, both Emmy and Golden Globe nominated. And apparently there were no parts for us. So how.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Sounds like fun, Allison.

[Ryder Strong]

Sounds like it was a fun show to be on.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, sounds great. Amazing. How were you paired with Reva McIntyre and how did it kind of overlap with Boy meets with World?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Well, it did overlap Boy Meets World, I will tell you that. So in the season seven in the fall, I had my newborn because my daughter was born March 31st at the end of season six. And the word was coming down the show may do an eighth season or be morphed into something else. I think the rumor was Michael was going to take it to New York and they were apartments there, something like that. So I, my agent was like, you know, you need to write another spec. You need a job. You know, I'm like, okay. So I had had this idea for quite a while and I would get up and, you know, breastfeed my child in the middle of the night or feed my, you know, two, four in the morning and I would watch reruns on Nickelodeon. And I kind of got this idea a little bit fleshed out in my head and I started writing it on spec on while I was on the show. So I wrote an outline and turned it into my agent sometime around Thanksgiving break. And then he said, just write the whole thing as a spec.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Don't.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Let's don't. We were going to pitch it at first, I think, and then I think the idea is you'll never sell a show with a pregnant teenager. So I had him write it because he felt like I could write it in a way that someone might consider buying it. And I wrote it over Christmas break, season seven, and I sold it.

[Ryder Strong]

I got a.

[Allison M. Gibson]

We had multiple studios interested and sold it in. I think it closed sometime around mid February.

[Ryder Strong]

So Reba wasn't attached. You didn't write this for her.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Her. No. In fact, wow. In fact, it was called Sally. I was definitely playing on the Roseanne. You know, I wanted to be a strong family show with a mom at the center of it. And I, in one of those late night sessions, feeding my daughter. Sally Field had popped on an episode of Murphy Brown that was rerunning at like 3 or 4 in the morning that I was watching. And I really thought she was perfect for this role. So in the ultimate suck up, I called the. It was called Sally and yeah, Sally. And then the pilot title was Life and Other Indignities. And I wrote it as a spec like that and it sold as a spec and it's a little backwards now. Usually the studio gets involved after it's bought by a network, but we were bought by the studio first and then they actually went out to Sally Field. We waited six. I went on Two Guys and a

[Danielle Fishel]

Girl

[Allison M. Gibson]

on the overall deal at Fox while they were casting. Sally Field was not interested in doing television at the time. So we started casting about midway through the casting process in that fall, the next fall after Boy meets World, Reba McEntire came in and. And I just. I'm a Southern girl and I have, you know, her music I was a fan of. And she had star quality, as, you know, you've got to be able to hold a multicam stage and you guys all have it. She had it. She, you know, all eyes turn when she walks in the room. And so yeah, we. She.

[Ryder Strong]

Wait, did she read for it?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah, she read for it.

[Ryder Strong]

So she auditioned for the show that eventually was named after her.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yes, well, yes. And that there's a great story about how it ended up being named by her. But yes, that's true.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

He came in as an.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Auditioned for Sally Schlendwine, I believe was the name at the time. My God. Yeah, she flew herself in from Nashville. There's. I've heard a couple of different stories. One, that her manager found it. Another my. I was talking to my casting director recently and he was saying that he had reached out to her manager and that's how her manager found it. Greg Orson, magnificent casting director. So probably whatever he says is exactly right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

But yeah, she came in and read for me and then over Christmas time she came in and read for the studio and network and then she opened on Broadway in Annie get yout Gun in January. And probably she was such a big hit in that we probably couldn't have gotten her had the studio not made the deal prior to that. So yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And then how did she end up naming the show Reba?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Well, so I. She had wanted to, and I agree. We were trying to do a Roseanne thing. Why wouldn't we call the show Reba? The network was concerned it might give her too much power.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

The network was all about, we're the show about young people. And, you know, we think it's better to sell it as the young people than as a show about the mom. But I always knew the show was centered and run by the mom, so I was fine with changing her name. So I said, well, look, okay, we won't change the name of the show. Let me just change her character name. Because that made Reba happy. So we changed it, and we made her Reba Hart. And then we still hadn't found a title for the show, and I had a friend pitch Deep in the Heart, which I kind of like.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

It sounds like Texas.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And you could play with the heart of the fact that their last name was Hart. That kind of worked. So that's what it was when we got picked up and went to New York. And then there was some kind of publicity dust up, and I don't know all the details, but they did something not right in New York that offended a few people. And all of a sudden, the show was named Reba.

[Ryder Strong]

I wonder if that's ever happened in television history. Somebody comes in to audition for a role, they still have to screen test for studio and for network, and then the show's named after them afterwards. I don't know if that has ever happened before, because you think about it, Seinfeld or Roseanne, any of these shows, Grace. I mean, these are all Grace under fire. These are all shows that were created for the lead of the show. So I wonder if the reverse has ever happened. That might be the only time in television history that's ever happened. That's really.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah. And she. You know, she was right for the role, and she does own and center the show, so it made perfect sense. I never had any problem with the show being named Reba. So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we noticed quite a few familiar names on that show. Patty Carr, Lara Runnels, Gary Miller. Were you trying to bring some Boy Meets World friends over to the Reba room?

[Allison M. Gibson]

I was. I was. I would have. I would have brought more if I could have. I also adored working with David Brownfield and.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

And. And. And Barbie and Erica. Yeah. I mean, I had a. I enjoyed my experience at Boy Meets World, and I thought there was some smart, good writers there. And So I brought some over and yeah, had a. Had. I would again, I, it's, you never should bring everybody over because you need more diversity in the rooms and you need to get new voices and you get, you know, you become a writing family and you're a little, you know, you become more insular than you even know you are. But it was fun to bring a couple of people I knew that were talented and, you know, again, I would have brought them all over. It wasn't. But that's not the smartest thing to do.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

What did you think about running a room? Were there, are there specific things you thought, I'm gonna, I had seen this done at Boy Meets World. I'm gonna take this with me. And were there other things where you were like, I have seen this done on Boy Meets World. I am not gonna do this.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Leaving it there.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Let's leave the word tushy out of every script.

[Allison M. Gibson]

You know, I think you can watch every season and I don't believe we have tushy. So, yeah, you know, I wish I had been on more Rooms before I ran a room. And I will have to say there are things I learned about your situation from the podcast that I didn't know. And there's just certain things, as a mid level writer, you just don't know what's going on. Danielle, I wanted to cry when I heard about you, you know, having to do your hair before you came in, like, that was crazy. And also Michael's technique of giving notes in front of everyone and sort of like, you know, it felt very luxury, maybe to you. I don't know.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Absolutely.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, there was, you know, it was interesting to me. As I told you, we were completely left out of everything in Home Improvement. It was a very, very hierarchical room. And so you don't necessarily hear network notes, studio notes, whatever. So while I appreciated the chance to being able to listen to that and see how certain notes evolve and, and why we make, we're making certain choices in rewrites, I don't think that was a great method of giving notes in front of everybody, the way that was done. And that is one thing I, I, I did take from Michael. Now, I don't think I, my notes were ever harsh, but I don't necessarily think cast notes like that is necessarily the way to go. And another thing I did, and I, I specifically did this to not be like Boy Meets World in the sense I really felt like sitcom directors were not given quite the respect that they should be. And so I Thought, who am I to give an actor's note? Right. I know how I want it to play on screen, but let me tell you, tell this person who works with them all day long. I don't like this. This is too heavy or too this. Or can we try something different? Whatever. So I did that. I made a real effort to let my directors do all the talking to the actors. And I think. I think that served me to a point. And then I also think the relationship is very important to have with the actors. So there's some plus and minus with that. That. But that's one thing I. I definitely did differently. You know, you learn other things. The showrunners that want to fix a joke on page three, when you're fresh at 8pm and then you get to the real meaty problem with the script on page 25, at 2 in the morning, you're exhausted. So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Allison M. Gibson]

We work till 4 or 5 in the morning on Home Improvement all the time. And all the time, I get in my car at five, five in the morning, drive to my. Over the hill, back to my apartment. Oh, my God. Noon, get up, be back at 1, and we do it. We did. Seven days a week.

[Ryder Strong]

That's crazy.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Absolutely crazy. I can remember, like, it was pre uber, like, thinking, I don't know if I can drive home. I might just need to sleep on the sofa.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

So I made an effort that I didn't want. You know, we tried to get the work done. If we need to fix a joke, let's work on the hard stuff first and we can punch up jokes later and things like that. So I try to take little tips from different writers. I work good showrunners that I've worked for. But, yeah. And, you know, I remember you guys said you were talking about directors you really loved, and I don't think we ever talked about that. The way writers look at directors is who's ready on time.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Oh, wow.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Right. Yeah.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Well, that's why we see in season seven, they were just giving us so many different directors, like, looking at the list, and we're like, oh, Steve Haver got an episode. And, oh, Kevin Tracy Levine was doing. And it's like. And we love those people. And they were. And I'm glad they got a chance. But it was also like, sort of like, let's just give everybody a chance. Like, it's not because. I don't think it's because Michael thinks that a director is an essential element. I think it was just, oh, we could do a favor for a friend Let them do that. But, yeah, he. Yeah, definitely does not. Did not consider directors an essential component.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

He also wanted to be. I think in his heart, he always wanted to be an actor.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Actor.

[Ryder Strong]

So his notes. His note sessions were him on stage. It was him performing for everybody around, so.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Absolutely true. And I'm sure somebody's talked to you how we did writers, table reads. Did anyone bring that up?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Never. I've never been on. I mean, I've been over a lot of shows, and nobody ever did. That wasn't really. Because we're not actors. And, you know, you. And you could cast your script with everyone around the room, and if, like, someone killed one of your jokes, you're like, oh, we're gonna be here after that. Because you couldn't deliver that, you know? Right. You can't deliver that.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Like Ryder.

[Allison M. Gibson]

You're not Ryder. You know?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Makes total sense.

[Allison M. Gibson]

One thing I wanted to bring up. Have you guys talked about the dance routines?

[Danielle Fishel]

No.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Let's.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, a little bit.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Oh, you mean our dance routines in

[Ryder Strong]

front of the audience? Yeah, we have.

[Danielle Fishel]

What are your memories of it?

[Allison M. Gibson]

It. I have to say, that was so much fun.

[Ryder Strong]

That is a eight season when you said.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

I have to say both.

[Ryder Strong]

We were both like.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Like we were making your life hell by shutting down the show.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, okay.

[Allison M. Gibson]

No, no, I thought it would. No, because again, late season.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

Yeah.

[Allison M. Gibson]

Season one, season two, guys. Season six, season seven. They love you. It was hilarious. I never. I always, like, wherever I was, I had to. To run out and see it and to see the audience just like you

[Danielle Fishel]

were like they were the Beatles or the Backstreet Boys.

[Allison M. Gibson]

It was crazy. We'd rip off his shirt and whatever. I just thought that was absolutely hilarious and just a golden, weird, funny moment that would only show. That's a beloved show that's been on for a long time. So you didn't do that.

[Ryder Strong]

You didn't have a dance break on Reba?

[Allison M. Gibson]

We did not have a dance break on. That's crazy.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Just, Just, Just Emmy nominations will

[Danielle Fishel]

different. We had awards.

[Ryder Strong]

We had. We had Ben taking his shirt off. They had awards. Yeah, I did.

[Danielle Fishel]

Are you surprised at all that? Thirty years later, people are still discovering Boy Meets World?

[Allison M. Gibson]

I am, and I'm not. I'm actually thrilled for it. I, I, I just think. I think shows with resonance that they hit a certain time period and they become beloved, and. And they're important. And so I just think that's really just amazing. I'm thrilled to be a part of it. It's been fun because I have it, like I said, Home Improvements, a number one show at the time or whatever. But Reba and Boy Meets World have both had a huge resurgence and particularly over through the COVID time when people found stuff on streaming and whatever. And no matter where I go, I judged some film festivals and did some different stuff from whatever. It's the two shows people always bring up to me, and they always come up and ask you about you guys and my experience there and this and that. They grew up with it and they love it and it's beloved.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

So.

[Allison M. Gibson]

I mean, did I know that after I wrote the Organ Grinder episode and the Future Band episode? No Tushy brushy. I will say, at the time, I did not know, but I'm. I'm proud to be associated with it and. And I'm really happy for. For you guys, and I'm glad people are seeing it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here with us and for sharing your wisdom and your insight. It's nice to catch up with you. We should get together and have lunch and share stories. Thank you just so much for coming and sharing your experience with us.

[Allison M. Gibson]

That'd be great. It's great to see you guys. It really is great to see you. Bye.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Bye.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, man.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I can't. I still, just being a television fanatic, I cannot get over the fact that a show called Reba was called something else. Somebody came in, went through the entire audition process. Not a. I had a meeting and decided, okay, I'll do this show. Went through the entire audition process.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, she wasn't even courted.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

No, she just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Ryder Strong]

I gotta screen test, and then I have to screen test, and then we're gonna name the show.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm dying to know what happened during that publicity.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

What was that?

[Danielle Fishel]

What happened? What did someone do to Reba that made her go, we are calling this show Reba.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, man. But you do it with an accent. We're calling the show Reba.

[Danielle Fishel]

We're calling the show Reba.

[Ryder Strong]

There you go. Nice. Nice.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails podmeetsworldshowmail.com and. And we've got merch.

[Ryder Strong]

No tushy. No merchy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pod meets worldshow.com writer. Send us out.

[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod meets world is an iheart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Wilfred L. And Ryder Strong Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, Producer and Editor Tara Subaksh, producer Maddie More, engineer and Boy Meets World super Van Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram odmeatsworld show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

Well, there's only one solution to solve that.

[Writer/Producer Guest (Allison M. Gibson)]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

okay, quick question. How long is too long to leave laundry in the water dishwasher?

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Wilfred L. (Wilfred Ellis)]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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