Be Kind, Rewind: “Home” with David Kendall

Summary

Pod Meets World: Episode Summary - "Be Kind, Rewind: 'Home' with David Kendall"

Introduction

In this episode of Pod Meets World, hosted by Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, and Will Friedle, the trio delves deep into the beloved Boy Meets World episode titled "Home." The episode features a special guest appearance by David Kendall, the writer, director, showrunner, and producer who played a pivotal role in shaping the series. Released on May 8, 2025, this episode not only revisits nostalgic moments but also uncovers behind-the-scenes insights that resonate with longtime fans and newcomers alike.

Guest Introduction: David Kendall

At the midpoint of season six, Ryder Strong introduces David Kendall, highlighting his extensive contributions to Boy Meets World. David Kendall joins the hosts to discuss season two, episode 23, "Home," an emotional cornerstone that marked the beginning of his deeper involvement with the show.

Overview of the Episode "Home"

"Home" is a significant episode where Sean Matthews faces challenges after his father, Chet, abruptly leaves. Feeling like a burden, Sean sneaks out, leading to pivotal interactions with Mr. Turner's character. The episode culminates in Sean potentially moving in with Mr. Turner, setting the stage for future developments in the series.

Behind the Scenes Insights

David Kendall shares his multifaceted role in directing, producing, and writing for the episode. He recounts his first experience directing Boy Meets World in this particular episode, which was also his second foray into television directing after an episode of Just the Ten of Us. Kendall emphasizes the organic evolution of the show, allowing characters and storylines to develop naturally rather than adhering strictly to pre-planned arcs.

Notable Quote:
David Kendall reflects, “[04:27] 'Sean is going to move in with Mr. Turner. It was a natural progression based on the characters’ chemistry and the story's needs.'”

Character Development and Themes

The episode is lauded for its tight storytelling and character depth. Kendall discusses the intricate relationships between characters like Sean, Mr. Turner, and Feeny, highlighting how the episode balances comedic elements with heartfelt moments. The narrative delves into themes of responsibility, mentorship, and personal growth, resonating deeply with the audience.

Notable Quote:
Will Friedel notes, “[04:47] 'The production is unreal. The magic they're doing on stage is incredible.'”

Production Challenges and Anecdotes

Kendall recounts the challenges of directing such a pivotal episode, including unexpected script changes and on-set improvisations. One memorable anecdote involves a shaving cream gag that initially didn't work during table readings but came together flawlessly during filming. The spontaneous nature of certain gags, like Ben’s waffle-throwing moment, showcases the dynamic and collaborative environment on set.

Notable Quote:
David Kendall shares, “[50:03] 'Sean shaving his unibrow was a brilliant and spontaneous moment that added humor and depth to his character.'”

Reflections on Showrunning

Kendall opens up about the immense pressures and responsibilities of running a television show. He describes showrunning as a "miserable job" due to the constant need to solve unexpected issues, balance creative visions with network demands, and maintain cast harmony. Despite the challenges, Kendall finds satisfaction in storytelling and fostering a collaborative atmosphere.

Notable Quote:
David Kendall candidly states, “[57:53] 'There's nothing harder than running a show. It's a 24/7 job with constant pressures and unexpected challenges.'”

Impact and Legacy of "Boy Meets World"

The discussion shifts to the enduring legacy of Boy Meets World. Kendall attributes the show's lasting popularity to its relatable coming-of-age themes, strong character chemistry, and the seamless blend of comedy and heartfelt moments. He also touches upon the show's ability to evolve over its seven-year run, maintaining relevance through authentic storytelling and character development.

Notable Quote:
Will Friedel reflects, “[77:55] 'Growing up is the hardest job in the world, and Boy Meets World captures that essence beautifully through its characters.'”

Conclusion

In wrapping up, the hosts express their deep appreciation for David Kendall's contributions to Boy Meets World. They acknowledge the episode "Home" as a standout moment that encapsulates the show's ability to blend humor with emotional depth. Kendall's insights offer listeners a richer understanding of the creative processes behind the scenes, reinforcing why Boy Meets World remains a cherished classic decades after its original airing.

Notable Quote:
Ryder Strong concludes, “[78:44] 'David Kendall is one of the reasons Boy Meets World is still being talked about. Your multifaceted role truly made a lasting impact.'”

Key Takeaways

• Authentic Storytelling: The success of Boy Meets World lies in its genuine portrayal of growing up, relatable characters, and meaningful life lessons.
• Behind-the-Scenes Challenges: Directing and showrunning a TV show involves navigating unpredictable script changes, actor dynamics, and maintaining narrative coherence.
• Enduring Legacy: The show's ability to resonate across generations is a testament to its strong writing, character development, and the chemistry among the cast.
• Collaborative Environment: The productive and spontaneous atmosphere on set fostered memorable moments that contributed to the show's charm and longevity.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• David Kendall on Sean's Journey:
  “[04:27] Sean is going to move in with Mr. Turner. It was a natural progression based on the characters’ chemistry and the story's needs.”

• Will Friedel on Production Quality:
  “[04:47] The production is unreal. The magic they're doing on stage is incredible.”

• David Kendall on Directing Gags:
  “[50:03] Sean shaving his unibrow was a brilliant and spontaneous moment that added humor and depth to his character.”

• David Kendall on Showrunning:
  “[57:53] There's nothing harder than running a show. It's a 24/7 job with constant pressures and unexpected challenges.”

• Will Friedel on Coming of Age:
  “[77:55] Growing up is the hardest job in the world, and Boy Meets World captures that essence beautifully through its characters.”

• Ryder Strong on Kendall’s Impact:
  “[78:44] David Kendall is one of the reasons Boy Meets World is still being talked about. Your multifaceted role truly made a lasting impact.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Pod Meets World offers an in-depth exploration of a critical moment in Boy Meets World, enriched by David Kendall's firsthand experiences and reflections. The conversation not only celebrates the show's past but also underscores the intricate craftsmanship that continues to endear it to fans around the world.

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedel]

And Will Friedle from Pod Meets World.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[David Kendall]

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[David Kendall]

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[Will Friedel]

Susan and I are, like, 20 again, out living our lives. We've had dinner with friends, other friends, believe it or not, than you guys.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, people. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't us.

[Will Friedel]

And last night we went to what's called a.

[Unknown]

A play.

[Will Friedel]

A pla. Am I saying that right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God.

[Will Friedel]

At the Pantages, we saw Harry Potter.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, you saw a little play called.

[Danielle Fishel]

Harry Potter, Harry Potter. What'd you think?

[Will Friedel]

Okay, couple things. First of all, the production is unreal. I mean, like, the magic they're doing on stage and this. It's incredible. I mean, really incredible.

[Ryder Strong]

Would Adler and Keaton enjoy it?

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, it was full of kids. Like, it was full of kids. So this is where the story comes in, which is interesting. My wife and I, we went and had a wonderful dinner. And then we walk in and we're in kind of. We've got great seats. We're in the center of the aisle. So, you know, obviously, we've got to walk past everybody. They've got to stand up and let us in. And like I said, it was full of kids. And a group of kids that were probably 13 or 14 all stood up to let us by. And the first guy went. First kid went, you're on Boy Meets World. So. So a. My wife's like, you just got recognized, and you never get recognized.

[Ryder Strong]

Which is seat 4C. 4C is no longer seat 4C.

[Will Friedel]

No. What's funny is I was U220 last night, so that's. No, it'll stick with 4C. U220. Just, it seems, trying too hard, but. So I was like, yes, I am. And all the other kids. Oh, my God. It was great. We saw the first half of the play. It was absolutely incredible. And then during intermission, they came up and said, can I have a picture? Can I have a. And I'm looking at them, and I said, you're all so young to be Boy Meets World fans. And they all said the same thing. Of course. My mom was a huge fan of the show. My dad was a Huge fan of the show, but we're going through the entire thing. It is so great. We love it so much. And then one young man named Lucas came up to me.

[Ryder Strong]

Lucas. Shout out to Lucas.

[Will Friedel]

Shout out to Lucas, who was the first young man who recognized me. And he said, I also wanna let you know that I'm such a fan of Pod Meets World that it made my best friend and I start our own podcast. Aw, no way. So shout out to the podcast called oh Shut Up. I've never heard it. They're just starting it. They're two like 14 year olds. I didn't get his friend's name. I apologize. I met him, but I didn't get his name. But to Lucas and the oh, Shut up podcast. Wow, that was. Was inspired by them loving Pod Meets world at like 13 years old.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow.

[Will Friedel]

So we are we. Ryder and I saw this at 90s con. Younger and younger generations are finding Boy Meets World again because they're watching with their kids or sometimes their grandkids and they're watching the show. And now younger kids are finding the podcast too. And it was such a cool thing to be at this amazing theater if you've never been in the Pantage. It's gorgeous. And watching this incredible stage show and surrounded by. I want to hear about the play.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to hear what you thought of the play.

[Will Friedel]

Lucas Harrison and Jamie. Apparently producer Jensen has already done the Shout out for the oh Shut up podcast. No, the play was. Some of. Most of the acting was good. Some of it was a little high school.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. Writer. Have you seen it twice?

[Danielle Fishel]

I saw it. I saw it on Broadway.

[Will Friedel]

London and on Broadway. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I saw it on Broadway.

[Will Friedel]

Ken.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Cried the entire time. And was I just going through an emotional thing like I don't know. Then I went and saw it in LA two weeks ago. Cried the entire time. Did you really loved it Even more. I.

[Ryder Strong]

Wait, wait, why did you cry Harry.

[Danielle Fishel]

Potter as a dad? It's a father son story.

[Will Friedel]

That's just the most. That's why. Cuz I'm not a dad.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's like, it's the way like I, you know, had Indy went through the such Harry Potter phase. I had never read Harry Potter like back in the day, never. So I did it all with Indy and I, you know, I liked it. I never like, love the Harry. I just felt I was too old. But when we saw the play on Broadway, I was like, this is my way into Harry Potter. It was just. It got me. It's time travel, which I'm Obsessed with time travel. Right.

[Will Friedel]

But it's also meta universes, which you hate.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Will Friedel]

Multiverse. I know.

[Danielle Fishel]

As I was watching, I was like, I know there's a little bit of fan service, but I just think the writing is so good on the play. I think. I think it's the best of all the Harry Potter stuff. It's the one for me. And I also just agree, the magic being live. Like, all the theater tricks that they do. They do things like people transform on stage, there's flames arcing across. They go on the train, the roof of the train. And, like, the special effects are so much more fun when they're live. You know, like, watching magic in the movies is like, okay, CGI most of the time. Like, for me, after the third one, the visual effects, I don't really like, but the visual effects of the play, like, oh, it's so good.

[Ryder Strong]

How old do you think is the perfect time for me to start Adler on Harry Potter?

[Will Friedel]

It depends. The first book. The first, I would argue maybe book and a half to two books could be for younger audiences. By book three, it starts to get pretty scary.

[Ryder Strong]

Adler is not. Adler doesn't mind scary. He doesn't mind scary.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think five or six. Indy was. Indy was a little old. Indy was a little young, but I.

[Ryder Strong]

Think you were reading it to him, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, I read him the first three books. And, yes, he tapped out of the third one because we got there too early. And I think.

[Will Friedel]

And it could be a little scary.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was just not as interesting. It was more complicated.

[Will Friedel]

Like, they grow. It gets very intricate. It gets more characteristics, almost like a kid's story. And ends as a full fantasy series.

[Danielle Fishel]

The first one feels like a Roald Dahl book. It's good for kindergartners, first graders to listen to. It's great.

[Will Friedel]

Sorcerer's Stone. Yeah. I think you could start Sorcerer's Stone with him.

[Ryder Strong]

Now, do you need to have read any of the books to enjoy the play?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Or seen the movies? You have to have seen the movies to really enjoy the play.

[Will Friedel]

I think you need to know. I mean, because again, they're going back with old characters and new characters and.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it doesn't.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Well. So fun. Another question. Why do you think you and Sue. Because I also am reliving my 20s. I am going out all the time. Yeah, just all the time. I have three lunches this week with three different girlfriends.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's crazy.

[Ryder Strong]

So what. What's. What's causing your 20s renaissance?

[Will Friedel]

People are forcing us. I Think would be the short answer.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, okay.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah. It's like, hey, do you want to come over for dinner? And we're like, yeah, like, that, I think, is pretty much what's happening. Or like, hey, we got tickets for the thing. No, we are. We are. We are actually enjoying it. It's been. It's also. We know that this summer is gonna be B, A, N, A, N, A, S, because. What's that spell? Bananas. Because we know we're going on tour, and so that's happening. And we're having construction done in the house. There's like, the next three or four months are gonna be crazy pants.

[Ryder Strong]

So you're living it up while you can.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, but we're also just spending as much time just with the two of us as we can. Cause we know she's gonna be shooting off to San Francisco to be on tour. So. Yeah, there's. We're spending as much time with each other as we can, and somehow that's arcing out to meeting new people and other friends and. Yeah, so we're going out and eating at restaurants and. Yeah, it's been. It's been nice.

[Danielle Fishel]

And once you start doing it, it gets easier and easier, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedel]

Well, it's like.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it's like exercise or anything. I feel like once you, like, get that, I mean, this is the problem, like, for so many people coming out of the pandemic.

[Will Friedel]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's like they got so used to just being home and, like, lockdown, that the idea of, like, you just have to get into the habit. Like, when you socialize, you just keep going.

[Ryder Strong]

It's.

[Will Friedel]

And it's so heavy. That doesn't. I can. My balance is one night a week, maybe two, and then I want the rest at home. The idea where it's like, if I get one night a week where I don't have. That's. Yeah, that's insane to me. That's insane.

[Ryder Strong]

No, no, I do agree with you, Will. A night out once a week sounds great.

[Will Friedel]

We literally, as we were driving there last night, looked at each other and both, at almost the same time, said, if this play is not as entertaining as season three, Love island, usa, we're both going to be.

[Unknown]

So.

[Will Friedel]

Because we had to drive to get to it, we're Love island right there in that room over there. So luckily, it was very good. But again, shout out to Lucas Harrison and Jamie.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

And the Shut up podcast, which was partially inspired by us on Pod Meets World. Helping the next generation people so you don't have to be a parent. I'm doing it.

[Ryder Strong]

Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm Ryder Strong.

[Will Friedel]

And I'm Will Friedel.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

We have hit the midpoint of season six and we are taking a break to bring you more Rewind Episodes, a new group of four episodes where we ask a past guest to come back on the podcast and pick any episode we've already recapped to talk about in order to bring their POV and thoughts to Pod Meets World. And this week we are bringing back a former writer, director, showrunner and producer of Boy Meets World, a name we constantly say when we need an answer for something we don't know. By this point, we should probably have merch that says we'll have to ask Kendall about that when he's back on. So when we asked him to come back for a Be Kind Rewind episode, He picked season two episode 23, an emotional roller coaster home and the close of what was the start of a David Kendall era of the show. So welcome back to Pod Meets World. A man near and dear to our hearts and someone who knows where all the bodies are buried. It's David Kendall.

[Unknown]

Okay. Can you see me? Can you hear me?

[Ryder Strong]

We can see.

[Unknown]

Hands up if you can hear. Can you hear me?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Unknown]

See me. Okay, good. I just want to see if I can get you guys to do stuff.

[Ryder Strong]

We'll still listen to you. You're still Kendall.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Go over there. Stand here.

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Welcome back. So good to see you as always. I was really excited when I found out that you picked this episode for us. First of all, it's a real throwback for us considering we are at the midway point of season six.

[Unknown]

You're in the middle of six now. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. So going back to two is just the warmest coziest.

[Will Friedel]

That's what you got from it?

[Ryder Strong]

Blanket? Yes. What did you get from it?

[Will Friedel]

It just made me sad. It made me sad for where in the show we are now.

[Unknown]

I know why. What do you mean?

[Will Friedel]

Because it's so good.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's so good. Tony was so good. The characters are so, like, well drawn.

[Ryder Strong]

And like, it's a tight episode. Everything makes sense.

[Will Friedel]

Everything's different television show than we're watching right now. Again, they're just two different shows. And I was arguably having more fun shooting season six because we were all together in our cast, but, man, it was. It was like slipping into a warm tub. And at first it was great, and then it just made me sad. I missed this. I missed this.

[Danielle Fishel]

David, you directed season six, right? We must have seen an episode because you came back.

[Unknown]

You were still directing us. I ran it for two and three. I was not there at all for four. I got into the rotation in season five and was there to the end.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, to the end.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

I tried to think six episodes you would have directed by. That we've seen already.

[Unknown]

I can't remember where you are in it, but I picked this episode because it's the only episode that I worked on as a writer, producer, and director of the show. Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Unknown]

Because it's the end of season two, and that was my first season, and. And I, you know, I hired myself to direct it and, you know, and it was only the second episode of television I'd ever directed. And so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

That's amazing.

[Unknown]

Important to me in a lot of ways. And. And. And it turned out great. And, you know, I Watched it the other night, and it really holds up. And also when you did the first rewatch, when you showed this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It said David Trainor had directed it.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedel]

So we had to make that.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Will Friedel]

I'm curious when you were.

[Unknown]

I've let that go. I've entirely let that go.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm glad you know, the date and the time.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Will Friedel]

When you were producing the show and hired yourself as a director, what was the interview process like?

[Unknown]

It was tough. Yeah, it was tough. It was tough. Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Tough questions, I imagine.

[Unknown]

Yeah, tough questions. But I got through it. It's kind of a blur. It's kind of a blur.

[Ryder Strong]

So I'm glad we're setting the record. Straight Home was not directed by David Trainor. It was directed by David Kendall. That is an IMDb mistake.

[Unknown]

So. Yeah, well, you know, hell with them.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Or the heck with them. Can I say hell?

[Will Friedel]

Sure.

[Ryder Strong]

You can say whatever you want.

[Unknown]

Okay. Okay. Are you gonna blip this out?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, we won't use it as a.

[Will Friedel]

Now it's a social clip.

[Ryder Strong]

Social clip.

[Unknown]

Damn. Damn. All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Well, let's remind our audience what the synopsis of the show is. Sean is invited to stay with the Matthews. After Chet takes off, he starts to feel like a burden and sneaks out. Shawn ends up on Mr. Turner's doorstep yet again, where Turner gives him a lecture about finding direction in life. So this episode you directed, you produced, you helped write. It was so much for you. Was this, like, a super big undertaking for you?

[Unknown]

Well, you know, at that point, it's the end of the season, so the scripts are pretty much done, or they should be. But it was just kind of a nice thing for me. Just to be selfish for a moment is I was involved. You know, I was on the floor. I'm running the room. I know you folks, and it's like, I want to direct, and it's like, here's an opportunity. And the networks was cool with it. Michael was cool with it, and, you know, it worked out. So. It was also great fun. I got to throw some visual things in there that, you know, because I'm on the floor with you guys, and was happy with the staging, and, you know, I was really excited. And, you know, looking back thousands of years later, it's still like, hey, this is a good episode.

[Will Friedel]

You know, it is a great episode. What was the first one you directed? You said this was number two.

[Unknown]

Oh, I. On Just the Ten of Us, the Growing Pain spinoff. In my previous life, I directed an episode of Just the Ten of Us.

[Will Friedel]

Cool.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you remember if we knew we were picked up or not?

[Unknown]

You never knew.

[Danielle Fishel]

We never knew.

[Unknown]

I mean, that was a point. It's like we lived on the bubble for all those years, at least the years I was there. And. And that was part of the redoing or revamping or whatever we did in season two was. It was not a guaranteed. It was not a lock. The show was not a lock, and I don't know if it ever was.

[Ryder Strong]

We talk about this a lot about, like, how the season story ideas come together. Where in the process, from a writer and director showrunner perspective, where does the idea for what the finale of a season might be? Where does that come in the process? Is it very early on?

[Unknown]

Usually early on you have an idea of where you want to go and what the kind of big markers are going to be and what the kind of, for want of a better term, the milestone episodes are going to be, where the big turns are. And it was. I can't remember where the inception of this came from, but it was like, you know, we're looking to evolve the show. Bringing in Tony was a great addition, and the chemistry that he had with everybody was great. Yeah. And again, it's a TV show, it's a comedy, but we try to take the characters seriously and taking Sean's home life seriously and his friendship with, With Corey seriously. What would be a nice evolution? And since the teachers were mentors, it was. It just kind of seemed organic. I don't, I, I don't remember the, the pulling and hauling and, and, and, and stuff that went on in the room, but it seemed like a nice, logical, organic conclusion and a way to keep people tuned into what's. What's going to happen next year. And also what's also was good for us. And a show and people running show is the network's gonna think, what's gonna happen? Will this look interesting next year?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So do you think from like day one at the start of season two, was the idea at the end of this, Sean's gonna end up living with Mr. Turner?

[Unknown]

Oh, absolutely not. Because we don't know that Tony's gonna work out. We don't know how the chemistry is gonna be. And, you know, you usually want to be, or at least I like, want to be, you know, eight or 10 stories ahead, but it was just kind of working. And it worked out nice. It worked out nice.

[Danielle Fishel]

Now we've already had the episode where Shawn is going to take the baseball bat to Turner's bike. Right. That was like Three or four episodes before this.

[Will Friedel]

Harley's last episode.

[Danielle Fishel]

Harley's.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, well, the character of Harley's last episode.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, I think.

[Danielle Fishel]

Because by then you could tell that you guys were already planting the seeds for me and Turner to be together. That was.

[Unknown]

We were starting that and seeing how you guys worked. And also one of the great blessings of the show is how much. How the chemistry was between so many of you. Of you actors. And it's like, hey, Tony's stuff is looking really good with. With. With Ben, with Feeny. I mean, some of their. Their discussions, the back and forth between Turner and Feeny are just great. And the back and forth with Sean and Tony was so good in that episode. Just looking at it the other night, there are so many things when he gets. When he starts yelling at Sean and the ballroom dancing line, and it's like he's yelling, but he's not an a hole. It's like he's yelling at this kid who's screwed up, and it's like you're still on his side, which is not a small accomplishment.

[Will Friedel]

That's one of the things, I think watching this episode made me realize so much about season six. And I'm not gonna sit here and bash on season six. They're just different shows.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, you did. You did.

[Will Friedel]

They're just different shows on tape, Will.

[Unknown]

It's on tape, but.

[Will Friedel]

I know. But it so made me miss the adults. It made me miss the grownups of the show because we became the grownups of the show. So Rusty and Betsy weren't there. Tony wasn't there, even Kat Thompson. I mean, there were scenes that just took place between adults. And it was such a nice break from it being a kids show, quote, unquote, that it really was a wonderful balance that I think as an adult, we are.

[Danielle Fishel]

We kind of act crazy in season six. Like, you're like, you're. You. As. Like, Eric as an adult is not like, that's not what's happening. And Sean and Corey are kind of flailing, so it's like there isn't that ground. I mean, I guess, but he's. But he's also kind of like, out of his element too. Like, this has such a. A clear, like, worldview that is so grounding and comfort. Comforting, you know, and then as kids, like, we mess up and. But there's a sense that, like, I don't know, it's. I miss, like, the. The Matthews house. I miss the school.

[Unknown]

I like to do a show for six or seven years. It's really impossible.

[Danielle Fishel]

But I think going to college really destabilized our sense of location. Like, you know, the student union kind of becomes that. But like the dorm rooms never feel. Because everyone's got their separate room. Like, it just doesn't. Whereas when I watched this episode, it was like, ah, there's an apartment where Turner, you know, and even that is going to become a center of a.

[Unknown]

New show, had to grow. And the characters.

[Will Friedel]

I know, of course, I don't like change, Dave.

[Unknown]

I know you do. I remember the drop shock when you watched the first episode of season two. And also it was nice to see how the promise. I guess I'm tooting my own horn. A little bit of what we started in season two ended and all kind of came together in those last few episodes of season two, pushing us all into season three. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

And I love how beautifully the A and B storyline connect in this one. It's just so. To me, it is such a mastery of writing when you're able to get the fact that Mr. Turner in his life is. Is being confronted with the idea that he's having a hard time with commitment. And why is that? And maybe it's because he's been selfish for too long and he. He likes being selfish, he likes doing his own thing and how that culminates in the fact that Sean needs somebody. And it just. It's so. Well, like, literally, it's one of the tightest episod episodes of TV I've ever seen.

[Will Friedel]

There's another layer too, where there's then moments of the C story that come into the A story with Feeney, you know, telling Eric to miss the locker and all that kind of stuff where it's like Feeny's involved in the Matthews lives too. So even that story comes in, it was really great. Really, really great.

[Unknown]

What's so great? There's so many great things about the show. We're still talking about it a billion years later is Bill is so strong that Bill can do a moment. And it's just. You feel his presence throughout. I mean, Eric Locker is just a great gag, right?

[Ryder Strong]

And his tells you everything.

[Unknown]

Yes, yes.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, it's really.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a tiny snippet and tells you everything you need to know about their relationship. And of course, when you know right from the. From the minute he says, I need you to do some yard work, you know instantly. This, of course, is going to be one of the three secrets. One of the three secrets is that he needed to get his brain off of it. But also It's a fun way of feeling like, you know, Feeny's getting free work. It's just so great. I truly loved everything about it.

[Unknown]

Going back to.

[Danielle Fishel]

Going back to what Will was talking about with the adults, too. It's really interesting to think about how much time the adults are concerned about the kids. Like, they're all talking to each other. They're all figuring. It's like, Sean's not. Like Sean's life experience is not happening in a vacuum. There's like this sort of Greek chorus of. Of gods. You know, like the.

[Ryder Strong]

The.

[Danielle Fishel]

The adult sitting around being like, what are we gonna do about Sean? Who's gonna take care of Sean? What's happening with Sean's dad? I don't know. And, like, that is. I really miss that. Like, that is so comforting. That is.

[Unknown]

How good is Darlene? How good is Darlene?

[Will Friedel]

Phenomenal. But it's also the thing that's so great is that the. The keeping it another step towards how real it is. It easily could have gone sitcom with. We're all just so concerned about Sean, what's gonna happen with Sean. But it was also Alan going, we can't afford this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Our family can't physically afford this. This is affecting us, too. And, man, I feel so bad for Sean. But there comes a point where we're not gonna be able to do this anymore. So it was just even another layer of realism onto it, which is just so great.

[Unknown]

Just another thing in looking at it the other night is the moment where Shawn arrives with the cop at the door. Or, excuse me, Darlene Vogel and Tony Quinn are having the scene, and it's interrupted. The cops at the door. There's an act break, but it really plays, like, five, six minutes of straight ahead action without any breaks in the time. It's just straight ahead, they're talking about the relationship. The cop arrives, Cat excuses herself, and the two guys sit down. And you see this kind of fun bonding with this undercurrent of, you know, you're screwing up, Sean. Someone needs to be there for you. And it's just. And you're both hitting all the marks. You're both hitting all the one wonderful thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's one of my favorite scenes, like, watching it back, too, like, because that's where I turn. Like, what do you want to know about women? I mean, that moment, you just. And then we put our feet up, I was just like, oh, that's, like, gonna be such a big part of the show. And you can just see it come together right there. You're like, well, now they have to live together.

[Will Friedel]

Is. That was. And I think this was all you, David. I mean, all the physicality of her taking his hands and putting his hands on her face and all that kind of. Oh, was just. It was wonderful, really.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, speaking of the adults on the show, I want to talk to you specifically about. About Blake Clark, because he's.

[Unknown]

Oh, goodness, Grace. Yeah, Blake is great.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, talk about. I mean, this is. This could almost be considered a drive by for him if it weren't for the fact that he was a recurring character on the show already. What we talk a lot about is when we get a fantastic guest star that pops in, has only a couple of scenes, but leaves a lasting impression. We call that like a great drive by. Yes, he does that. He has one very short scene where he's not even in the room with any of the other characters and it makes a dramatic impact. He was a little bit of a thinking outside the box pick for this as an actor because he was mostly known as a standup comedian. I mean, I know he had done some home improvement, but do you remember how you guys landed on him for this role?

[Unknown]

I can't remember. I think he just read and he nailed it. And so many great things about Blake. And I've worked with him on other series after that is. And this was true in the writers room, when you're working on stuff and trying to come up with stuff for Blake is like. Everybody ends up talking like Blake.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, Sean. It's so infectious, his kind of attitude. And it's everybody. And you're pitching lines and you're pitching, like, Blake. And just to answer the question from. Because I not only did I watched the episode, I listened to your re. Watch.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, you listened to 223. Look at you being all prepped.

[Unknown]

I did. I'm, you know, I'm nerdy that way, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Unknown]

And that when you see Chet at the restaurant and you see out the window, that's a giant TV pushed up against the window.

[Danielle Fishel]

Amazing.

[Unknown]

And somebody ran out and just shot some stock footage of just kind of. We shot the stock footage of just cars driving by. And we had the, you know, the lighting department propped the TV up so it's right by the window. Wow. And we put a shade over the window so your eye doesn't have time to study it. And so it was a nice little effect. So, you know, amazing.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to say shout out to our lighting department, too, because also that scene with Sean and Corey in the bedroom is wonderful. It's moody in a way that shows sitcoms usually aren't. And the way that the black, the, the shadow is right over Sean's eyes, it's really effective. I was like, I actually noticed it. I was like, this show has like a noir. Suddenly has like this noir look to it. That was really cool.

[Unknown]

And Ben's moment when he says he needs a home and he does a little howl. So cute and fun and smart and funny. And you know, everybody was great in that episode. And Ben, you know, Ben nails it. Ben nails it all the time.

[Ryder Strong]

Absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

When he comes out of the tree at the end and he's like, oh my go. I think I broke. Oh my God, he's so funny.

[Will Friedel]

It's.

[Unknown]

Ben is 90 year old man. I mean he's almost asking take the roles. You know, he always has that. So good.

[Ryder Strong]

And by the way, we will say he's also been a high point of season six for us.

[Will Friedel]

One of the few, One of the few high points of season six has been season six carrying us.

[Ryder Strong]

He is having so much fun. He's back to very neurotic Corey and that, that has been really nice.

[Danielle Fishel]

But he seems so young in this, doesn't he? Like, I know because I'm physically the same size, but Ben is so much smaller. When we started the show, I was.

[Unknown]

Like, I think his moments before his voice changed too.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, I remember that he came back, I think for season three. He was like, hey, how you doing? It's like, whoa. Wow. Yeah. Hi.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Unknown]

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[Unknown]

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[Ryder Strong]

Okay, so I know we must have. I know we talked about it when we did our original recap. I'm not as prepared as David. I did not re Listen to it.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah. I'm curious. During your re. Listen, did you also miss the adults?

[Unknown]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. What was in the bag that Kat left at his house? I think we decided it must have been a bra.

[Unknown]

You decided a bra? I think it's good to not know what it is. Oh, I think to have it open for discussion is actually more interesting.

[Will Friedel]

You're going a Tarantino.

[Unknown]

That's exactly what we were doing. That was exactly.

[Will Friedel]

Glow like a low. That comes out when he opens. He opens it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's better to not know and not not define it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Don't ever say that word again.

[Unknown]

It's better to not define it.

[Will Friedel]

Do you have a problem with panties? What's wrong with panties?

[Ryder Strong]

A lot of people do. It doesn't bother me.

[Will Friedel]

Really?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Wait, so panties is like moist where some people like it and some moist.

[Danielle Fishel]

Is totally fine for me. But panties.

[Unknown]

What about moist panties?

[Will Friedel]

I was just going to say I'm glad you said not me. Thank you.

[Unknown]

Are they going to cut this out? Are they going to cut this out? I don't know.

[Will Friedel]

Nope.

[Ryder Strong]

I think it was a bra she said she has more than one of and that it was fine to leave at his house.

[Will Friedel]

Could that full bra fit in that tiny little. Don't they fold over? I mean like a little bag, though.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, it's not that tiny. It's a lunch bag. It's a brown paper lunch bag. Definitely fits in there.

[Will Friedel]

Wait, does he use the singular or plural?

[Danielle Fishel]

I think he uses the plural.

[Will Friedel]

Does he use a singular? Which makes me think you left these or you left this because it's a bra.

[Unknown]

Let it be a mystery for the generations to ponder. Okay. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

He says this. It's a bra.

[Will Friedel]

Sure.

[Ryder Strong]

Thinks it's panties.

[Will Friedel]

Panties.

[Ryder Strong]

He doesn't say these.

[Will Friedel]

He doesn't. Okay, you got it.

[Unknown]

What happens?

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, yeah. This is what happens when. You know, when you do a TV show together for seven years and then you do a podcast together for about seven years and your friends 20 years in the middle.

[Unknown]

This is tour. And then you. Tour.

[Will Friedel]

Tour, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. Another thing we must have spent a long time talking about because I'm even having flashbacks as I'm saying it is about cats needling Turner. About marriage and love.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. We'll had a thing about that in the rewatch.

[Ryder Strong]

Four months of dating.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a real or get off the pot conversation. And is. What do you think that was the original line?

[Will Friedel]

That would have been better.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

What do you think is it. Was this. Looking back, do you think that was premature of her or what's your. What's your take on it?

[Will Friedel]

It.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's premature, but people do premature things. I mean, that's the thing. People say inappropriate things all the time.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Unknown]

So. And also, I think. And I looked at it again the other night. She's almost joking. If Tony had had decided to diffuse that with a laugh, it would have not got serious. Okay, does that mean you want to marry me? And he could have made a joke about that. He took it seriously.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? You got that right. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Will Friedel]

Okay. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And also, it's probably. It could be inappropriate, but, you know, maybe that's how she felt in the moment. If we're taking Cat as a real character. But also, people say things and they shouldn't all the time.

[Ryder Strong]

Absolutely.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And. And people, especially adults in relationships of a certain age, where you start to feel the pressure of, am I gonna get married? Am I going to have a family? Every relationship starts to take on a new level of importance. And if you think you found somebody you could settle down with, I can understand from her perspective being like, do you think you could feel the same way about me?

[Unknown]

And he gave her an opening. He said forever.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And it's. You know, and she could just be saying, what do you mean by forever? I mean, it's just. I. I don't think it was a horrible thing, you know, and the way.

[Ryder Strong]

It ties in perfectly with the fact that she left something and unmentionable at his house. And it bothered him so much. She's like, you don't. You don't have to do this every time I leave something at your house. That is a feel. Feeling. Yeah, That's a feeling you would get. Where you're like, why is it so offensive to you for an item of mine to be in your home for longer than, like, the evening? You don't have to bring it back to me every time. So it's obviously been on her mind. Another thing we've noticed is. Is a big deal in the Boy Meets World universe.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Are the SATs, and we have a big emphasis on them, especially for Eric here in season two. Can you, David, let everyone know in our audience how vital that score was for children of the 90s?

[Unknown]

It was a make or break thing. It was kind of defining who you are, what your brain is. I mean, it's crap, because that doesn't define who you are or who you can be. But it was really like getting a brand on your face, like, okay, what your number is or what it's gonna be. And, you know, I'm glad it's. It's. That is de. Emphasized, you know, so much. And we put enough pressure on kids without this kind of horrible marker. And. Yeah, because the show is coming of age in so many ways, and Eric is trying to redefine himself a little bit and, you know, see what he can do, see what he can be. And, oh, Jason is great, too. I mean, their scenes.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, yeah.

[Will Friedel]

And we believe they're friends.

[Unknown]

That's another thing. Their chemistry. You believe these guys are friends so.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, he was also.

[Will Friedel]

Ryder and I have talked about how. And Danielle has. We've all discussed how I learned how to act kind of as the show was going. And every time I'm with Jason, especially in the early episodes, you just see the difference in the caliber of sitcom actor for that age. I mean, Jason was working on another level than I was at that point. He was just so good and so natural with the comedy. And eventually I got there, and I think one of the reasons is because I was working with people like Jason.

[Danielle Fishel]

Was this his last episode? It was. Right, right.

[Will Friedel]

Was this the last time we saw him? Season two? Yeah. I don't know if he came back for season two.

[Danielle Fishel]

So he walks off in that.

[Unknown]

He.

[Danielle Fishel]

He does the. He does. He's one of the few exits the, like, the other way from Feeny's Yard. Like, you know what I mean? Like, where's he going?

[Unknown]

He couldn't come back. That's why he couldn't come back.

[Will Friedel]

Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

He left the wrong side of camera. Oh, my God.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah. No, it was just. The whole episode is. It was great. And everybody.

[Ryder Strong]

You.

[Will Friedel]

You forget how big a cast we have until you see an episode like this and there's multiple storylines going on but that all interse. But it seemed like we had 40 people in the company. When you're watching this episode, it was really amazing to see kind of the dance of everybody working around and it worked. It all worked great.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's a great episode. It was fun to see Ivory Ocean as the policeman. As policeman in Growing Pains he played a part called cop.

[Will Friedel]

So you know he was also. He also in Seinfeld he played the one eyed police officer who's. Who's trying to find Newman, the white whale. So he's. I mean he. Right when he popped on this guy constantly plays a police officer.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's cop or policeman. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

We joke a lot about the very serious young writer Strong and how seriously he took his craft. You were there obviously dealing with some of his very first big dramatic scenes and episodes.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

What do you remember about as the director steering the ship for young dramatic writer Strong?

[Unknown]

What I remember is that his instincts were always good and he always understood it and always felt it and always took it seriously in a good way. Those memory banks are pretty dusty. I think we would probably looking at trying to make sure it didn't get too dark or introspective. But those memory are pretty dusty and just kind of remember the stuff in the scene where what do you want to know about women? The moments where he says he needs to leave. To me they play real and I don't think they get too melodramatic. Maybe there are some takes that were melodramatic or maybe there's moments in run throughs that were. But you know, it's. I don't remember thinking oh my goodness, this is not going to work. This guy's not in the show that we're in the same show we're doing. I mean what do you remember Ryder, about that?

[Danielle Fishel]

I think at this point I probably had a lighter touch. I think it was more like seasons three and four that it really started to get like, you know, I mean by the time Turner's in the hospital and I'm, you know, like I feel like that was when you had your. God, I'm. I'm a drum. Yeah, Godalog. If that's when I, I think at this point as much as I wanted it to like I. I feel like I probably. We. We all had a light touch, you know, like. And I just. I just love working with Tony. Like. And you can tell that we're just having fun and like. Yeah.

[Unknown]

So yeah, Tony keeps it. He keeps it light. Even the serious stuff, which is just, you know, how gifted an actor he is.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, he's what, supposed to be. I'm sorry, the. He and cat are supposed to be what, like early 30s, 32, 33 kind of age, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I think late 20s.

[Will Friedel]

You don't think.

[Unknown]

I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

I think I was going to say mid-30s. I was going to say. I was going to say mid-30s.

[Danielle Fishel]

Still in their 20s.

[Ryder Strong]

Really, you think?

[Will Friedel]

Okay, I was, yeah. I was curious where they would, where they would be.

[Unknown]

I think somewhere between 28 and 33. But it's like.

[Will Friedel]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep, that makes sense.

[Will Friedel]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, this episode ends with on like a, a seemingly very promising note that Sean is going to move in with Mr. Turner. And then very quickly in season three, we get to a mysterious motorcycle accident. Do you remember before knowing there was going to be a motorcycle accident? Do you remember any of the long term ideas for a Shawn Turner living together scenario?

[Unknown]

When was the motorcycle accident? I don't think it was season three. Three.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think it was season four, wasn't it?

[Unknown]

I had nothing to do.

[Will Friedel]

Two and three didn't. I think he did two and three. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Tony was alive and healthy when I left the show.

[Ryder Strong]

Got it running the show. Tony was alive.

[Unknown]

I was, I was alive and healthy.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think season three is, is when my mom comes back and I go back. No, that was season four, too. Wasn't this season four?

[Unknown]

I think season three. When does Chet have his heart attacks?

[Will Friedel]

Was that season six?

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I, I, Tony was alive. He was fine. He was obeying traffic laws.

[Will Friedel]

I, this is when people are yelling at their, their radios and their phones.

[Ryder Strong]

Right now and sitting on a subway.

[Will Friedel]

Going, how do you not know? You've seen it? How do you now not know? Yes, I think he was, I think Tony was there for all of two and all of three.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, right. They moved together for all of three. Yeah. And then four. Okay. Do you remember any of your ideas for, for Turner going into season three? Do you remember anything of yours that was like, here's a storyline for them that I, I know, but you, you.

[Unknown]

Asked if I remember any my ideas. And normally I think there's a code. You don't say what your jokes were or anything. But I do remember the shaving cream on the.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm so glad you said that because I noticed it when I watched it again. I was like, how did I miss that the first time? It's so funny. Funny, great.

[Unknown]

I remember that. That was mine.

[Ryder Strong]

Sean Shaving his unibrow is brilliant.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Really good.

[Unknown]

And, you know. And, you know, Ryder was a good sport about it. You know, you never know how someone's gonna react when you just say, I'm gonna draw attention to this as a teenager. So, you know, it was good gag. And all the S's in the refrigerator when Amy was marking. That was just. I was glad to be able to throw in a couple of, you know, visual things in that episode.

[Ryder Strong]

And then the S matches the patch on the back of the jeans. It makes me laugh. It made me laugh so much. I loved all those little details.

[Will Friedel]

This is still my biggest. What do you think my mom's gonna do? She's gonna take it back, patch it, clean it, and put an S on it. Like, that was. Oh, God, it was such a good line. I also forgot already we have to do a rewatch of the. Rewatch of the recast of the repop. Because I forgot Lily did two seasons.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedel]

I thought she was only in the first season. When I see her sitting at the table, I was like, oh, she did two full seasons.

[Ryder Strong]

Two. Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

I thought she was on a season, then she wasn't. And then Lindsay came on and, you.

[Unknown]

Know, the network said, you don't need her. You're going to tell her or her reps or her parents that she's not coming back for season three. That was really a wonderful moment in the show.

[Will Friedel]

Oh, you had to do that.

[Danielle Fishel]

You had to do it.

[Unknown]

I was instructed to do that. And so rather than the network do it, I thought it would be more appropriate for people who worked on the show to call, you know, her dad. And that was, you know, how did.

[Ryder Strong]

That conversation go.

[Unknown]

Again? That's in dim memories. But they seem to take it well and didn't sound all that surprised. Or maybe that was just a professional approach, but that was. You know, you've talked about it a little bit, and it is amazing. The show ran for seven years and is still insanely popular. It wasn't treated all that well by network and studio in terms of, you know, being cheap. It's just like, you don't need the little girl. You're going to get rid of her and. Is this a discussion? No, it's not a discussion. You're going to do it.

[Will Friedel]

You know, man, I think I. I think her dad, who whose name is also David, probably was a little more pragmatic about it because he's a producer. So he probably, you know, had like, okay, I get it. I've been.

[Ryder Strong]

We've Also discussed that Lily didn't necessarily seem like she was loving.

[Unknown]

Oh, I, I had heard that she, you know, that the first season I wasn't there. So you guys can. Can see if this comports with your memory was when she heard about the pickup, she cried in front of the audience.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

She started bawling in front of the audience. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Normally that's not the reaction you want from an actor where, guess what, there's another season.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

She started yelling, I don't want to do this anymore.

[Unknown]

Oh, my goodness.

[Will Friedel]

In front of the audience. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, that's.

[Will Friedel]

We're all like hugging each other and cheering.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was the back nine. It was when we got picked up for the back nine.

[Will Friedel]

It was, it was best for her at the time.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Okay.

[Will Friedel]

She seriously didn't want to be there. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I don't feel so bad now.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, no, I don't feel quite so bad. But this episode also does a really good job of highlighting the chemistry between Will and Bill Daniels. I mean, it's kind of a magical pairing. What do you remember about noticing that chemistry and then playing to it?

[Unknown]

Well, it's, you know, writers are kind of in the best way. Maybe this isn't the right word. Our is like if something works, we're gonna go for it. We're gonna write more of this. You know, somebody gets a left, we're gonna go for this. This works great.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe another word would be an opportunity.

[Will Friedel]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

You're taking horror as a bad way, you know?

[Ryder Strong]

No, no, not as a bad way. Just enough. An alternative.

[Unknown]

We're writers. Positive on sex workers and. Sex workers. Yes, yes, we were sex workers. We're sex workers making our customers happy.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, good.

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah. It's just if this works, it's just, you know, it's your guys fault for making it work, you know, and it's like, okay, this is a great relationship.

[Ryder Strong]

We did talk about that recently. That it would, it would. No.

[Will Friedel]

It'S almost every episode somewhere.

[Ryder Strong]

But we, we talked about how we especially will. Will notice that if. If something gets a laugh in one episode, we'll notice it again. If not the next episode, the episode after that, and maybe even a couple of them where it's like they worked the first time. Will it work the second time? Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedel]

I mean, how many. I'm. What was it first season with? I'm Danger Boy. I'm this boy. You know, he. They tried.

[Danielle Fishel]

And it's also evolved. It's like one time and then, then you build on it and Then you build on it.

[Unknown]

I don't know if that was ever written.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedel]

It just said, Mr. Feeney with an exclamation point. Eric stands by the fence, Mr. Feeny. That was it. And then I knew I could just milk it.

[Unknown]

And milk it you did.

[Will Friedel]

And milk it.

[Ryder Strong]

I sh.

[Will Friedel]

Well, I'm a Dave.

[Unknown]

You're a sex worker.

[Will Friedel]

But no, I remember. I just.

[Ryder Strong]

He's an opportunist.

[Will Friedel]

Opportunist.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm an opportunist dairy farmer.

[Will Friedel]

Really?

[Danielle Fishel]

Milk it.

[Will Friedel]

We just have to hurry up because I have to have an opportunist test later to make sure I'm healthy. Yeah, the. No, the thing I remember distinctly was every time opening the script and seeing Eric and Feeny together, I was just. I knew it was going to be an awesome week. I was just so happy because I knew working with Bill, first of all, you were still kind of. Scared's not the right word, but scared around Bill. I mean, he was into. Yeah, he was the consummate professional. He was never angry. But he was also never the big warming, hey, how was your weekend? That just wasn't Bill.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedel]

But he always treated you with the utmost respect. He treated you like another actor. You knew you were gonna learn as you're like, just keep your mouth shut and learn as much as you can. And then when he did throw a compliment your way, it was the most amazing thing that ever happened.

[Unknown]

He lived through what you guys lived through, which is amazing to think about that.

[Will Friedel]

But he never told us that. That we didn't know that.

[Ryder Strong]

We did not know that he was.

[Unknown]

A child actor or a kid in vaudeville specifically.

[Will Friedel]

Wouldn't tell. We talked to. Years later, he said, oh, under no circumstances was I going to tell you that I had been through any of this. So he didn't tell.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think he wanted us to ask him questions. He was like, I was not trying to relate too much to you.

[Unknown]

Has it been told on the podcast the story that Bill wasn't entirely comfortable with being Mr. Feeny?

[Will Friedel]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

In Frontier. And. And what he said to David Trainor.

[Ryder Strong]

I would love to hear it from your POV as well.

[Unknown]

All right, well, they'll manage to blip. The word is, he said, am I really gonna have to stand on the other side of this fence for five years?

[Will Friedel]

Nope. Seven. Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

So that has never been told on the podcast. No, I don't believe I asked Bill about that. And I said, did you say that? And he said, I suppose yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Sounds about right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Am I really gonna have to. Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

Now it can be told. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's incredible.

[Ryder Strong]

We asked you about whether or not we. At the end of. By the time we were doing this finale, we knew whether we were picked up or not. It feels like we were a show always on the bubble.

[Unknown]

I don't know if we knew it, definitely, because also. So it was a strategy by Disney to keep us guessing and keep us on our toes and keep us, you know, not asking for too much.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. Wow. Looking back now with so much on your shoulders in season two, what do you think was the. What was the hardest part? Was it being a director? Was it being a showrunner? Was it being a producer?

[Unknown]

There's nothing harder than running a show.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Unknown]

There's. It is a miserable job.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And it's just. It's 247 and the pressures and it's. Great job. I mean, it's wonderful and it's very satisfying, but it's not like I think people in the middle of running a show aren't. I'm having the best time. I don't think you say that when you're running a show. You do that when you're directing or when you're acting when things are going well. But running the show is. Is. Is really difficult. And there's always pressures, and it's like. Like, you know, somebody. I was at teaching a class or something, someone said, so what's a typical day in running show? I said, there is no typical day in running show. You know, your script could be thrown out. The outline that you thought was going to work, the network doesn't want to do. The actor that you thought you had can't do it, and you're going to have to rearrange scripts so that you can keep that actor in the arc. I mean, it's just. The cut is seven minutes long, and you thought it was only going to be three minutes long. And it's always just.

[Ryder Strong]

It's just constantly putting out fires left and right.

[Unknown]

Putting out fires. And it's just, you know, is that script gonna read well, you think? We are so confident in the script. It's gonna be great. Holy cow. There wasn't a laugh. We're gonna be here all night. You know, it's just. You don't know. And it's great. And it's great.

[Will Friedel]

Can I ask, do you remember what the biggest fire was you ever had to put out as the showrunner or.

[Danielle Fishel]

They were all.

[Unknown]

There's so many that they all just kind of blur and I was. As I was going through getting ready for this episode and looking at the episodes that I had directed, I was remembering, I think it was the show, the Truman show parody. I can't remember what it was called, but in case we just.

[Will Friedel]

We just recapped that.

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah. A nutty show. It's. It's very, very nutty. And the table reading was a flat line. It was just. Nothing worked. This is gonna be hell. And of course, I'm not in the room now. I'm just on the stage waiting for pages. And it was like, okay, you're not gonna have the script tomorrow. They're still working on it. So, you know, what do we do? Well, we should have the first act by tomorrow. Oh, okay. And we ended up block shooting the script on two different days. We did the A story one day and the B story the other day. And that was just like, what you do, you know?

[Will Friedel]

It makes sense, though.

[Danielle Fishel]

That was a tough episode, too, because you had the water coming down.

[Will Friedel]

I'm the Truman Show.

[Danielle Fishel]

We just did it. There's, like, water on the set. There's, like, them climbing out of a window.

[Will Friedel]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And then there's a huge crowd in the student union. That's a complicated episode. Oh, man.

[Will Friedel]

So wait, I have a question for you, because you obviously are somebody who wore so many hats on the show. When you come back to direct something like the Truman show and the script doesn't work right, do you then also go into the writers room or are you like, no, I'm not in there at all.

[Unknown]

No, no, no, no.

[Will Friedel]

Okay.

[Unknown]

No, no, no. I get the fun job. I get to go home, Right? Yeah, I get to go home.

[Will Friedel]

Okay.

[Unknown]

So, you know, I get the fun job. I get the show. Another moment I remember in that is the B story was Corey and Sean are trying to ply Feeny with a nice brunch to improve, which was funny.

[Will Friedel]

That was a funny, funny B story.

[Unknown]

Really funny. And you guys were great. The last moment of it, when Phoebe is flunking them, is Ben flings a waffle at the table and Bill starts to eat it. If I had told Bill, we're going to throw a waffle at you and you're going to eat it, he never would have done that.

[Will Friedel]

That.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, right.

[Unknown]

But the fact that it just kind of happened was I was very happy that worked because it's a great gag.

[Ryder Strong]

So funny.

[Unknown]

If you tell William Daniels, Bill, they're going to throw a waffle at you and you're going to eat it. He would have he would have looked at me askance.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. But the fact that it was spontaneous.

[Unknown]

Yes. And his idea.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedel]

I really have to eat this waffle for five years.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So, you know, things happen when. When you don't plan it. But I remember that week was very strange because the table reading flatlined.

[Will Friedel]

And that makes sense because I did not like the A story, mostly because. And we talked about this because of my performance. I felt like it was. It wasn't really played for comedy and it wasn't really played for drama, so it kind of fell somewhere in the middle. But the man, the B story was hysterically funny.

[Unknown]

B story was funny. And, you know, there's some good moments in it, as there always are.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sure.

[Unknown]

In that. But it was. By that time, there was just kind of nuttiness. I mean, I was not in the room for any of that. Basically, I got the script delivered, and it's like, okay, this is my job this week. But, you know, I don't think America was dying to see Boy Meets World do a Truman show parody. I don't know if that was the.

[Will Friedel]

Now, what did you. How did you feel coming back to the show to direct episodes later? Like, did you have to bite your tongue sometimes with the direction they were taking some of the characters, or did you were. Like you said, were you, like, not my business. I'm gonna direct.

[Unknown]

What they hand me, for the most part is like, this is my job. I remember the episode with the young artist, the girl who's the same age as Lou Alexander. Nikita, but this tall.

[Will Friedel]

Yes, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Alexandra. Nikita. Yes.

[Unknown]

And I remember getting the script and reading it at home going, this makes no sense. This is what's going to happen tomorrow. I don't know what's going to happen.

[Danielle Fishel]

How do I make this make sense?

[Unknown]

I couldn't stop sleep.

[Will Friedel]

It was like, oh, no, no.

[Unknown]

What is. What are people going to say? Are they going to send us home? And I know it's not my job. Should I come up with ways to solve it? But that's not what I do. And so, you know, it was the table reading, and it was fine. Yeah, there's some nice jokes. There's some moments that worked, and the notes were okay. And it was like. It was a kind of a lesson. And this is your job, David. You're going to show up and you're going to direct it. And I remember a couple of things Ben had asked me while we were on the floor is, you know, Corey's doing this, and then the next scene, he's Doing this, it doesn't make sense. The transition, what's going on? And I, thinking on my feet, said, imagine a scene where this happened. And Corey learned this and this allowed him to change his mind. This would be the connecting thread from that scene to this scene. But we don't need to see that scene. The audience needs to see that scene. So let's imagine that that scene took place and he bought it, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

So you wrote an extra scene that you couldn't actually write and just gave it to the actor. Right. Oh, man.

[Unknown]

So, you know, it's what you do. And it was just a lesson as I was still kind of learning how to be a director. And you get the script, you make it as good as you can. You find every single moment if someone asks you for your input as a producer. But that's not what your job is. That's not what your job. I mean, it's like in a way akin. You guys tell me, because I'm not an actor of being an actor. It's like, here's the script. I'm going to make this work because that's my job.

[Will Friedel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

It's so funny hearing you talk about that stuff. Like thinking about now being a director myself and how many of my conversations as a director with actors focus around things I don't have any control in, you know, and it being like, but story wise and. But character. But why from here to here and exactly what you said. You can, you can give backstory, you can give subtext, you can give hypotheticals. But at the end of the day, if what really is something that an actor is bumping up against can only be changed in the writing, there's only so much I can do right now. And I will pass along your message.

[Will Friedel]

I was just gonna ask, are you the conduit then to then say, well, but there's something.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, in a lot of ways, actors have more power than the director. So the actors have more potential to go to the showrunner or the writers and say, this needs to change. The director kind of can't do that, like, because the actors are gonna have to be there the next week. And you know, but a director, you might only be there for one week, so you don't have the authority. You can, you could maybe bring it up, but like you're gonna listen to the actors more.

[Unknown]

You're not on the poster.

[Will Friedel]

You're not.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, true. But on all the shows I have worked on, I have found so far that, that when a situation like that comes up and I Say to them, would you like me to bring this up to the showrunner? Every time the actor says, I would love that. Thank you. And then I am able to go, sometimes in 30 minutes when we break for lunch, go right up to the writer's room and say, hey, from the floor. This is what we're coming into right now. This is what this actor has said. This is how they're feeling. Do you want to incorporate. Do you want to change it before run through? Do you, like, is there something you want to do to fix it so that they get what they want and you can see it for run through, or do you want to see it as is right now and then you can change it overnight? Or do you want to have a conversation with them? And there's always a solution. Always.

[Unknown]

And another thing I'm fond of doing is just saying your writers are very smart.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Commit, try. You could surprise you and them, and they're smart. If it doesn't work, they'll change it. But commit. And often, you know, and you guys know that as actors, you try something that you don't think might be wobbly or iffy, and you know what? The commitment made it work.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah. Well, we used to hear that, especially during the earlier days, we would hear Michael and some of the other writers and producers say stuff like that. Like, if you don't commit, we don't know if it's going to work or not.

[Unknown]

Right, Exactly.

[Will Friedel]

So you've got to give it 100%, and we'll see. Okay, you gave it 100%, and it's dead. That's on.

[Unknown]

And the hardest thing in the world in show business is getting a TV show and a series on the air and getting it in production. And you earn the right to have the actors, with respect, commit to everything that you've been given. Yeah. And, you know, they're obviously compromising gray areas, and it's not an absolute, but that's what this is. What. And I feel that as directors, like, they're giving this to me. I'm going to try to understand it. If I don't understand it, I'll ask before I'm out there. Y. And it's like, what does this mean? I want to make sure I understand this. And it's like, commit, commit. I mean, it's just. Look at all the. I'm looking at Will, all the surreal stuff that. That Mr. Fredell was given that because of commitment, it made it work, that it shouldn't have worked.

[Will Friedel]

But.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Unknown]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Unknown]

Know? It's over 200 episodes as director.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. Hannah Montana, even Stevens, Smart guy. Victorious. The list goes on and on and on. Sydney to the max.

[Unknown]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

How is Boy Meets World? The show with the biggest cult following? I. I mean, we were always on the bubble. How?

[Unknown]

I asked you that. I was going to ask you that. And if there's anything that you have learned from doing the show and rewatching the show and touring with it. I. I don't know. I asked Chibi chat CBT that question yesterday. Did you say why is the sitcom Boy Meets World so beloved and popular? I asked chat GBT yesterday.

[Ryder Strong]

And what was the answer?

[Unknown]

Okay, I'll just read you the bullet points.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Relatable Coming of age. Journey. Journey. Timeless life lessons. Three genuine character development. Four, iconic relationships. Cory and Topanga and Cory and Sean. Five, perfect blend of comedy and heart. Six, nostalgia and cultural impact. And seven, spin off love. That's what ChatGPT said.

[Ryder Strong]

Spin off love.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That the girl. The Girl Meets World brought a new audience to the original show and. Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Daniel, you were on a show called Girl Meets World, which was after boy.

[Ryder Strong]

Tell me more about this show.

[Will Friedel]

I really don't want to.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, thanks.

[Unknown]

Wow. Wow. When's that rewatch?

[Ryder Strong]

You know, another thing I'd like to throw in the mix, Being an underdog. I think being a little bit of an underdog helps. We were kind of a show. Yeah, I think. I think we were a show that. That. That maintained even though people didn't think it was going to last. You know, I mean, and. And I think when you have. I think by definition, having a cult following must mean you weren't as popular or successful as some of the other shows were in its time, but it holds value for a longer period.

[Unknown]

I think I said before is blemish world. Oh, I'm working on Boy Meets World. It went from. What is that? To. Is that still on?

[Will Friedel]

Right.

[Unknown]

You know, and to.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my gosh. You worked on boy.

[Unknown]

I know. Remember when we did the. The. The picketing. The Writers Guild.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Picketing day. And. And fans showed up. I mean, that was incredible. The other thing that chat gbt missed, because it's. It's just a machine, is the chemistry. Is the so much great chemistry. Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

No, we were. We never got it when we were on the air because it was always. We came on TGIF and all the press. Everything was all Jaleel and family matters. And then they left, and we were like, maybe it's gonna be us. And then Sabrina comes on, and we're like, what? The actual is happening. We're now they're getting all the prep. We're always skipped. We were always skipped. And I think there is something to that. To people at first, like, well, Boy Meets World was my favorite. And then it just kind of kept growing and growing. And then I think it was the second round. Was it ABC Family in the second round, or did it go right to Disney Channel?

[Ryder Strong]

The second round, I think. Disney Channel?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Will Friedel]

Wherever re aired it, I think that's really where. Cause then it was on MTV and Disney Channel and all these different places. And I think by that point, the second run is really where the people started to.

[Unknown]

And it was a really strong ensemble. I think the other TGIF shows were more Geared towards one or two characters. And this was about a group of friends growing up and mentors and life lessons, but the chemistry.

[Will Friedel]

I think there's also something to the fact that there was very little, if anything, about our show that was kitschy, where it was like Sabrina was Sabrina, but it was always also about magic. You know, a lot of. There was always some kind of little hook. They were magical. They were this.

[David Kendall]

We were just.

[Will Friedel]

It was a family show. There was a bunch of people growing up together. There was a great line Ryder and I were talking about. Well, we all were. But I went to go see the Harry Potter and the Curse of the Golden Child or whatever it's called last night at the Pantages. And there's a line where the two of the characters are talking and one of them says the other. I always thought being a parent was the hardest job in the world. It's not. It's growing up. Growing up is the hardest job in the world. And I think there's something about watching especially Cory and Shawn. And Cory and Shawn and Topanga all growing up together with the same age of the people that are watching the show.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Will Friedel]

That was the crux of the show, as we're all growing up together as opposed to. And they're all great shows as opposed to you're watching me. What it's like to be a witch. You know, those are two very different things. And I think one of them sustains because growing up is growing up no matter when you're doing it. So I think that's another reason why the show has continued to last for as long as it has.

[Unknown]

And also the people who were our audience, who grew with the show are now in their 30s and 40s, and the people who are. Who run the world now, you know, it's just like that's the. Be the. The group that has taken their place front and center in. In the world.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, one of the other things that chat GPT missed is David Kendall.

[Will Friedel]

Yes, you.

[Ryder Strong]

David Kendall is one of the reasons Boy Meets World is still being talked about. You were obviously such an instrumental part of our show, and you wore so many hats. We absolutely love you. We appreciate you. Thank you for being here. You're still the very first person we name when we go. You know what? We should. We need to know the answer to this. We gotta. We gotta ask David Kendall. Kendall will know.

[Unknown]

Well, okay. I'm embarrassed, but.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, thank you for that. Except about give you your flowers.

[Will Friedel]

This one was directed by David Trainer.

[Ryder Strong]

This is a Trainer.

[Will Friedel]

So just check IMDb.

[Unknown]

I will do that, because IMDb.

[Ryder Strong]

You know what? I think you probably could email IMDb and get this corrected.

[Unknown]

I probably.

[Danielle Fishel]

He's got 200 episodes of television.

[Unknown]

Yeah, he does.

[Ryder Strong]

He doesn't need.

[Danielle Fishel]

What's one extra.

[Ryder Strong]

Thank you, David. Always a pleasure to see you and spend time with you. With you.

[Unknown]

I love you guys. You know that. And can we do a lunch?

[Will Friedel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. What are you doing now?

[Ryder Strong]

We got one more podcast to do.

[Will Friedel]

We're working, Dave.

[Unknown]

Oh, excuse me. Okay, well, good. So lunch and soon.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, let's do that.

[Unknown]

Love to you all. Love to your spouses and. And children, those of you that have them.

[Ryder Strong]

So, yes, love to you, David. Thank you so much.

[Will Friedel]

Bye, David.

[Unknown]

Bye.

[Ryder Strong]

I love how. How much detail he knew about that episode. Even though David Trainor, David Trainer.

[Will Friedel]

It's amazing.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. It's unbelievable.

[Unknown]

It's.

[Will Friedel]

I. I just hearing him talk about it, you think about how rare it truly is to have somebody who's executive producing, writing, and directing. I mean, you get.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're.

[Will Friedel]

You're now in, like, the Seinfeld kind of. There's a handful of people that do it. I mean, Tim Allen didn't do that for. For Home Improvement. I mean, all the biggest sitcom, they. They weren't writing direct. I mean, it's very rarefied air in television to wear all three of those hats at the same time.

[Ryder Strong]

I know it's shocking that he was like, there's no harder job in the world. This is not the shocking part. There's no harder job in the entertainment universe than showrunning. And then he was like. And so I was showrunning and decided, let me direct this one.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, well, but I remember talking to him when we were. When we were at the strike and asking him, like, what do you. You know, because it was always kind of surprising to me that he stuck with directing because he started as a writer on Growing Pains, then, you know, got to be a showrunner, and. But he was like, no, no. Directing is why you. Why you do this. He just loves working with actors. He loves being on set. And it's. It's cool because I feel the same way. You know, like, writing is kind of. It's like a means to an end. You know, it's like a. It's like you want to tell stories, so you have to write to get it out. But, like, it's lonely or you're in a room and it's competitive. It's like, it's hard, you know, whereas directing, even when it's hard. It feels like you're just, I don't know. It's so exciting. It's so exciting to be on a set and to problem solve in real time with actors and your crew. It's so fun. Even when it's hard, it's fun. Whereas I think showrunning is really thankless.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally.

[Will Friedel]

If either of you had to make a guess, why do you think Michael never directed an episode?

[Ryder Strong]

That's a really good question because, I.

[Will Friedel]

Mean, he basically was kind of doing it anyway a lot of the time. So why do you think he never took the reins of one? I mean, a special one that meant something to him? It's kind of, now that I'm thinking about it, it seems odd that he never directed an episode.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Ryder Strong]

That is a good question. Something only can be answered by Michael Jacobs.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, he did end up directing a movie, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Relatively recently.

[Will Friedel]

And I know he directed a lot of theater too, didn't he?

[Danielle Fishel]

No.

[Will Friedel]

Oh, I thought he directed some of the plays that he directs. I don't think so. No, I thought he did.

[Danielle Fishel]

No. Yeah, I, I, there's, I know there were, there were, there were complaints from the DGA a lot that, that he was overstepping and doing. You know, I remember, like, talking to people at dga, like how. Oh, yeah, that we used to get calls about Michael all the time because directors or directors, assistants would be able to like, call and say, this person should not be doing this job overstepping their bounds.

[Will Friedel]

But, oh, he directed an episode of My Two Dads. So he did direct an episode. So why. Yeah, why not?

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe he hated it.

[Will Friedel]

Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's true. He could have just could have hated it. So we'll have to ask him someday.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails podmeatsworldshowmail.com and we have got merch.

[Will Friedel]

I got nothing. Merch.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. You got nothing.

[Will Friedel]

Harry Potter something.

[Danielle Fishel]

Maybe we've emptied the merch bucket.

[Will Friedel]

Emptied the merch bucket. I got mer.

[Unknown]

Merchy.

[Will Friedel]

Merch.

[David Kendall]

Merch.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just go back to the original. What did you say? We used to just go merch, merch.

[Will Friedel]

Something like that. Yeah, those are just sounds more than anything else. I need Kendall to direct me.

[Ryder Strong]

Fond meets worldshow.com will. Will send us out.

[Will Friedel]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel. Will Friedle and Rider Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sudbaksh, producer Matty Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram odmeats world show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com.

[Ryder Strong]

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[David Kendall]

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[Danielle Fishel]

To an iHeart podcast.