Be Kind, Rewind: “The Thrilla’ in Phila” with Mark Blutman

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pod Meets World – “Be Kind, Rewind: ‘The Thrilla’ in Phila” with Mark Blutman

Introduction

In the February 13, 2025 release of Pod Meets World, hosts Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle, and Ryder Strong delve into one of the most memorable episodes of the iconic series “Boy Meets World” titled “The Thrilla’ in Phila.” This episode features a crossover with the world of professional wrestling, blending humor, nostalgia, and heartfelt reflections. Special guest Mark Blutman, a writer for the show, joins the hosts to unpack the creation, impact, and legacy of this standout episode.

Guest Introduction: Mark Blutman [00:00 – 17:00]

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing Mark Blutman, who played a pivotal role in shaping some of the show’s most beloved moments. Danielle Fishel welcomes him warmly, and informal banter sets a relaxed tone as Mark discusses his early days on the show and his relationship with the cast.

Discussion on “The Thrilla’ in Phila” Episode [17:00 – 35:00]

Mark Blutman recounts the brainstorming process behind the “Thrilla’ in Phila” episode. He explains how the idea to integrate professional wrestling into the storyline was born from a desire to explore new and engaging narratives. “[...] when we interviewed writer Mark Blutman back in season two of the podcast, we let you in on that secret too” ([16:56]).

The collaboration with wrestling stars like Vader and Jake Roberts added a unique flavor to the episode, creating an unforgettable blend of comedy and action. Mark shares anecdotes about casting decisions and the challenges of balancing realistic wrestling elements with the show's comedic tone. At [27:56], he highlights how “Jake Roberts, who we ended up using in the episode anyway” was a perfect fit for the show's dynamic.

Wrestling and Boy Meets World Connection [35:00 – 50:00]

The conversation deepens as Mark elaborates on the symbiotic relationship between wrestling and the show. He emphasizes how wrestlers bring their own brand of performance and storytelling to the series. “[...] training. Every time they cut a promo, it's an acting class” ([55:54])—Mark explains that the performative skills of wrestlers translate seamlessly into acting roles on the show.

Mark commends the wrestlers’ ability to connect with audiences, likening their promotional skills to formal acting training. This synergy not only enriched the episode’s authenticity but also resonated deeply with fans, bridging two passionate fanbases.

Character Development and Story Arcs [35:00 – 60:00]

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on character development, particularly the evolution of Corey Matthews. Ryder Strong expresses nostalgia for Corey's earlier, more spontaneous and relatable persona. “[...] I miss the wise cracking” ([37:29]) Ryder laments how Corey's character became more rigid and less relatable as the series progressed.

Mark Blutman reflects on the pressures of maintaining character consistency while evolving with the storyline. He discusses the balance between personal growth of characters and the overarching narrative dictated by the show's creators. “[...] Corey, you know, the ultimate, you were the audience surrogate in so many ways...” ([39:20]) Mark highlights Corey's role as a bridge between the audience and the narrative.

Reflections on the Show’s Evolution [60:00 – 75:00]

Mark shares his insights on the broader evolution of “Boy Meets World,” contrasting the early, experimental seasons with the later, more structured ones. He critiques the decision to cement Corey and Topanga’s relationship too early, arguing that it stifled character growth and potential storylines. “[...] nothing wrong with Cory Topanga getting married, but it should be more...” ([67:12]) Mark advocates for allowing characters to continue evolving beyond predefined outcomes.

The hosts and Mark discuss the implications of these creative choices on both the show’s legacy and its impact on the audience. They ponder how contemporary storytelling might benefit from more fluid character arcs, ensuring that characters remain dynamic and relatable over time.

Legacy and Fan Impact [75:00 – 90:00]

The episode concludes with a heartfelt discussion on the lasting legacy of “Boy Meets World.” Mark Blutman emphasizes the show's enduring appeal, attributing it to its ability to blend humor with meaningful life lessons. “[...] you guys are here, you know, 30 plus years later and there's an audience loyal both new and old” ([31:03]).

The hosts express gratitude towards Mark for his contributions, acknowledging that his writing was instrumental in creating memorable episodes that continue to resonate with fans. Danielle Fishel remarks, “Without you, there really, there is no Boy Meets World,” underscoring the profound impact of behind-the-scenes talent on the show's success.

Notable Quotes

• Mark Blutman on wrestling as acting: “Training. Every time they cut a promo, it's an acting class.” ([55:54])
• Ryder Strong on Corey's character: “I miss the wise cracking.” ([37:29])
• Mark on character evolution: “We're never done coming of age.” ([63:42])
• Reflection on Corey's role: “Corey was the audience surrogate...” ([39:20])

Conclusion

“Be Kind, Rewind: ‘The Thrilla’ in Phila” offers an in-depth exploration of a pivotal episode from “Boy Meets World,” enriched by Mark Blutman’s firsthand insights. The discussion not only revisits the creative processes behind integrating wrestling into the show but also critiques character development decisions that have shaped the series' legacy. For fans of the show and enthusiasts of television storytelling, this episode of Pod Meets World provides a nostalgic yet critical examination of what made “Boy Meets World” a beloved staple in the realm of coming-of-age television.

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

It's Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong and Will.

[Will Friedle]

Friedle from Pod Meets World.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

And a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on Earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World.

[Mark Blutman]

Resort.

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[Will Friedle]

You don't go to any chain. None. There isn't a single chain restaurant where you're like, hey man, the the whatever the apps at TGI Fridays. I go, like, once a month. Like, there's nothing.

[Mark Blutman]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

So Alex likes those kinds of play. Like, she likes the big fancy, you know? I'm trying to remember what. Which ones she likes. I feel like we always go.

[Will Friedle]

TGI Fridays was fancy.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, I just remember. I just always. I walk into these places, and Alex will be so happy. And the menu is, like, 400 pages long. On it is, like, 4,500 calories per, like, serving. And I'm like, I. You know, And I always feel awful afterwards. You eat these giant meals, and it, like, tastes fine, but then you're like, okay, it's all slathered in sauces. I don't know, man. And then I'm like, I don't even. Yeah, so I'm not a fan.

[Will Friedle]

Like, what you're thinking of, the one with the. The thick menu is. What's the one that has the menu that's 900 pages long? That every.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's Cheesecake Factory.

[Will Friedle]

Cheesecake Factory.

[Ryder Strong]

Thank you.

[Mark Blutman]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And it's, like, done in chapters, and you're looking certain menu items going, does anyone ever order this ever on page 38 of the menu? Like, right. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I remember going, one time we went with Alex and some friends, and we ended up doing, like, an all you can eat pasta option at one of these places. And it was so disgusting, like, the amount of food that was. And, like, everybody was, like, just feeling, you know, like, you feel obligated to keep eating, take advantage of what you paid for. And then it was just like, oh, oh, and the garlic bread. And now dessert. I'm just like, I can't. I can't eat.

[Danielle Fishel]

I. I like buff. Because I like to have a little, tiny bit of. A lot of things. That's why I love soup plantations so much.

[Will Friedle]

No, we like them for different reasons. I like to have a lot of stuff for a lot of things.

[Danielle Fishel]

A lot of. A lot of different things.

[Ryder Strong]

Will, you just have to go on a cruise, man, you just, like. I love it. It's like your dream come true. I cannot believe you haven't done it. If you go on, like, a really nice cruise, you will be in heaven, and you'll never.

[Will Friedle]

I need so much food that the boat would be like this at the end. It would just be me in the back.

[Danielle Fishel]

It just will.

[Ryder Strong]

And it would be Titanic. The food's already on the boat. You eating it doesn't change the way.

[Will Friedle]

They have to airlift in new food the entire way. Oh, man.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. No, but don't you guys? Don't you have those experiences? And then like, kind of the. To me, a unique experience is like part of why you go out to eat. Like, the idea of going out to eat and eating the same thing I. I've had before. And then also the experience looking exactly like every other restaurant I've been to. Like, that's not why to go.

[Will Friedle]

But you don't have dish that you love so much that you're like, I have to go to this place and get this thing.

[Ryder Strong]

I. I've had that in my life. But it's usually because it's an independent restaurant. Like, if it's a chain, it doesn't feel that special. I may like the food, but it's like, I'm not going to choose to go out and get it again.

[Will Friedle]

This is somebody who's never had a Ruby's Burger. This is being spoken by someone who's never had a Ruby.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, that's true. This is. This also feels like a personal attack.

[Will Friedle]

It does a little bit.

[Danielle Fishel]

I felt it should all we. All we eat it chains. I feel attacked. But it's also, you know, I mean, this is. This is not surprising coming from someone whose ideal vacation is in a camper van experiencing something new every single day. Whereas for me, one of the things I like about finding things I like is that knowing what to expect and the comfort the. That type of, like, that brings me when I'm feeling. Whether it's like, oh, I'm hungry and I know exactly what's going to make me feel feel satiated, it's that Ruby's burger. Or, you know. Yeah. So I actually.

[Will Friedle]

It's an anxiety thing probably a little bit too.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Why? People watch the same show like I watch MASH over and over. I mean, if you read about it, that's. It's a straight up anxiety thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

So you know what to expect, when to expect it, where the laughs are, what the jokes are.

[Will Friedle]

There's a comfort to it. And I think there's. I think that also goes with some of the chain restaurants where. But there's also you. You mix. I mean, at the end of the day, Islands has the most amazing French fries you're ever gonna have, so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, time for Red Robin fries.

[Will Friedle]

I don't. I've never had Red Robin in my life.

[Danielle Fishel]

Will freaking know.

[Will Friedle]

I know, I know, I know.

[Mark Blutman]

Never once.

[Danielle Fishel]

You've known me for 30 years and I've never taken you to a Red Robin.

[Will Friedle]

Nope. Nope.

[Ryder Strong]

I've never been to a Red Robin. Either. Maybe I have, and I just don't remember.

[Will Friedle]

Danielle just got it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I got it. I got it right away. I love it. I mean, they have their own happy birthday song. Happy birthday have a happy birthday Happy birthday have a happy day hey, do we have a birthday here? Yes, we have a birthday. Birthday wear. Birthday. Whoa. Happy birthday have happy birthday okay, so.

[Ryder Strong]

If you travel somewhere, if you go somewhere new in America, some city, some town you've never been, you want to try that Starbucks or the McDonald's or the Island.

[Danielle Fishel]

I agree with you there. When I travel, I do not think of where are the chain restaurants. When I travel, I'll think, well, I'm only going to be here for a couple of days. Let's look up some local places there that are.

[Ryder Strong]

And what's so depressing is that those are harder and harder to find. Like, yeah, drive across the country, which I do every year. It's like, if you are on the freeway, all your options are the same places you go. And it's awful. You can't find a unique experience. And so it's like, what's the point of traveling? It's like America's just replicated itself over and over and over again from city to city. And, like, that's not good. Like, that's really bad for culture. It's really bad for individual experience. It's like, no, I think you can.

[Will Friedle]

Still find those places. You just. They're. They're. You have to hunt for it.

[Ryder Strong]

They. They struggle, man. Like, they don't stay open. You know, like, they don' you can't. I mean, you know, to do a really obvious example, you're not going to find a local bookstore anymore, right? Because everybody's just. You just Amazon it. You don't. So there's no need for. And that's a bummer because, like, if you're looking for that great bookstore in.

[Will Friedle]

Sebastopol, I've been a couple in. In San Francisco. There's.

[Mark Blutman]

There's still.

[Will Friedle]

You can still find bookstores. Burbank. Yeah. So, I mean, you can still find it, but, yes, they are.

[Ryder Strong]

They are dying.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, compared to, like, even when we're. When we were teenagers, like, bookstores, every neighborhood of every city had a bookstore, and that was like a set or video store. You know, these are cultural centers.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, it's like, I can't.

[Ryder Strong]

Music stores.

[Will Friedle]

Taking it out of Target. My favorite part about Target is I would go. I would buy all my clothes for the next five years, and then there'd be the stack of DVDs, and it's like, what came out? What kind of. Because Blockbuster's gone, which was the greatest thing in the world. And so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it sucks that Jensen finds a way. Jensen finds a way.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Physical media will never die in our house.

[Will Friedle]

Thank God.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank God that we have any time you guys need to rent a movie, you can come down.

[Will Friedle]

Is there a little, like, Jensen card that you have to swipe? And then it's like, as you're checking.

[Danielle Fishel]

Out, it's like, ooh, wait, there's your own VIP card. Yep.

[Will Friedle]

It wouldn't be licorice at Danielle's house.

[Danielle Fishel]

There'd be no liquor. I could have it in the house as long as nobody's eating it next to me. Just stay in its container.

[Will Friedle]

I can't wait to take Ryder to Red Robin because we'll all go and it'll be great.

[Danielle Fishel]

We'll go. My birthday's coming up. I mean, in like three months. But we'll go for my birthday counts.

[Ryder Strong]

We'll exchange Christmas gifts for your birthday.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's a good idea. We do need to figure out when are we doing our holiday dinner.

[Will Friedle]

We should figure out soon because both your ponies are seriously close to dinner. Just.

[Ryder Strong]

Just. Are they both named Susie?

[Will Friedle]

They're both named Susie and apparently they want to eat every day.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, mine's probably a bird like you said. Mine's a bird. And writers is another pony. Welcome to Pod Meats World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm Ryder Strong.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm Will Friedle.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

And right now, you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products.

[Will Friedle]

Here's how it works. Spend $20 on their products. Get $5. Spend $30. Get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt, and upload it to cprewards.com.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I have so many going all the way back to when my dad came home with a video camera when I was 2 or 3. And we have our first superhero movie that my first directing. My brother and I. Oh man. Wrote and directed the Great Toy Caper and starred as superhero and we still have it. It's the best.

[Will Friedle]

That's great. Yeah, mine was actually for another show that I did, but when I got to go to the set of youf can't do that on Television and got slimed as a kid on Nickelodeon. Like old school Nickelodeon slimed. That's one that I'll always remember. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I bet you wish there was a way you could easily watch or share that moment, right?

[Ryder Strong]

It's getting harder and harder to watch old media like VHS tapes and 8 millimeter film. Unless you time travel, which from my understanding is still not possible.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, but we're getting closer. But luckily for you, we found a solution. It's Legacy Box.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

Let's say it together.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

You know what? It does have a ring to it. No, seriously, try saying it out loud. The Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo.

[Will Friedle]

Ooh, that sounds nice.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

We are going to be doing these Be Kind rewind shows in groups of three, just in little pockets as a pleasant surprise and we are very excited about people we have coming back next. So today we finish off our first trio with an episode and a guest that is guaranteed to take home the championship title. Our recent podcast crossover with Liv Morgan and Seat 4C's big Netflix debut should come as no surprise to Boy Meets World fans. The show and the wonderful World of Wrestling go back like babies and pacifiers. From Vader to Jake the Snake Roberts to Brother love to eventually Mrs. Foley's baby boy Mankind. We had enough pro wrestling guest stars to book a pretty impressive tag team match. And the reason for this unlikely marriage? It's never been a secret to us. And after we interviewed writer Mark Blutman back in season two of the podcast, we let you in on that secret too. And so now we have invited back Crusher Comic to take another look at an episode of his choosing. And like hearing the ominous gong from the beginning of Undertaker's theme music, you know exactly what's gonna happen next. It's one of the most fever dream scripts from the series, with a group of cameos that could only be explained as they called a bunch of people and filmed whoever showed up. Hey, there's Robert Goulet. Is that Yasmine Bleeth. Does she know she's here? And I guess I was there too. Adam Scott, Bully jocks Vader, Body slamming Will, Kelly Packard and Blake Senate in the singlet. It has everything. So it's time to welcome back the co writer of this classic comedic romp. Watching season two, episode 21, Thrilla Infilla. It's Mark Blutman.

[Will Friedle]

It's so weird to go back. Hey.

[Ryder Strong]

Hello.

[Will Friedle]

Hey.

[Danielle Fishel]

Welcome.

[Mark Blutman]

Oh, my gosh. It is always so cool to see together. I'm here too, Ryder.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You didn't recognize him, right?

[Mark Blutman]

Wow. I'm like, who's the young intern?

[Will Friedle]

Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's what we said. It's like having kid Ryder Strong with us.

[Mark Blutman]

We all. We all go through these phases and stages where we make changes.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, man.

[Mark Blutman]

My thing was kind of organic. I had like so few on my. I was like, literally once in a restaurant and the next table, like a little kid with their parents is looking at me doing this. I'm like, what? Oh, we're teaching them to count with your hairs. I think it's time.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think I can just get rid of it.

[Will Friedle]

It looks great.

[Mark Blutman]

You all look great. Everybody, like, you guys are the best. This is amazing. Congratulations. What is this now? Like, I remember I was on one of the first. But you guys must be at like 150 now somewhere.

[Danielle Fishel]

How many episodes we've done.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, no, think about it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Clue.

[Mark Blutman]

It's amazing.

[Ryder Strong]

It's been fun, you guys.

[Will Friedle]

More episodes of this than we have of Boy Meets World.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think you're probably right at this point.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. We're just at it.

[Will Friedle]

I think we have. Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Let's syndicate this podcast. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So, Mark, before we jump into the episode, I'm not sure if you have heard any of our get rider to Wrestlemania campaign, but we wanted to see if you could give a little, like, small sales pitch to Ryder about making a podcast trip to Vegas to see the biggest night of them all in person.

[Mark Blutman]

Well, I'll.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'll.

[Mark Blutman]

I'll do it as a wrestler.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. A promo. Give us a promo.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Mark Blutman]

Let me tell you something, Mr. Strong. It's about time you got with the people. Everybody loves wrestling. You started as a theater, kid. There's no better theater than wrestling. Good versus evil, heel versus face. Usually the face winning in the end. Because good will always triumph. It is the finest storytelling in the land. It's about time you got hip and got with your friends Will and Danielle and made an appearance. And I guarantee you, no shade to you, Mr. Friedle. But they'll put your name underneath your face.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

[Ryder Strong]

I like that. The pitch made a competition between me and Will at the end there.

[Danielle Fishel]

He saw that saying, it's the finest storytelling. Got an and then decided if I go for competition between you guys.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, nice, right?

[Mark Blutman]

Just so Ryder could flex for the rest of his life going, I don't know, Will. They had my name on. Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Great.

[Mark Blutman]

How great was it, though? And I also, by the way, I heard the episode with Liv. Yeah, Liv's awesome. Great episode. But for you, Will, how was it? Like, how amazing.

[Will Friedle]

Truly amazing. I mean, it was, it was the. Such high energy. The. Because it's, it's so many different aspects that were incredible, from the storytelling to the music to just the fanfare, then to the athleticism that you're watching. Go on. It was, it was really fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, he had a good time.

[Will Friedle]

Really fun. So I'm so looking forward.

[Danielle Fishel]

Enjoyed it, which was my fun for me too.

[Ryder Strong]

This is great.

[Mark Blutman]

So that's amazing. And by the way, I saw her on. On camera and they put her name under.

[Will Friedle]

They did, they did.

[Mark Blutman]

Awesome.

[Will Friedle]

Susie Martinez. No, I had a blast. I really had a ton of fun.

[Mark Blutman]

Any of you see the Royal Rumble?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah. I watched parts of the Royal Rumble. It was. It was pretty long, but we watched parts of it. We showed it for Adler.

[Mark Blutman]

Adler enjoyed it. Speed took a bump, man.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, that was a. That was an int. Intense moment. I can't believe they hit him so hard.

[Mark Blutman]

So hard.

[Will Friedle]

I'm like, I don't know what's happening, but I love it.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah, I'm like, he didn't sell it. He really was.

[Danielle Fishel]

He really did. No, I know. There was no way of selling that. I'm. I'm. Yeah, it was, it was pretty crazy. There, There was a. A streamer that jumped into the ring and took a hit. It was pretty, pretty crazy to watch. So, Mark, you were gracious enough to come back and have a more detailed look and at an episode of your choosing. And to no one's surprised, you picked one of our two most famous wrestling weeks, Thrilla and Phyllis. So we had you watch it again. Now, 30 years later, what were your feelings?

[Mark Blutman]

Honestly, I was somewhat horrified at first to like turn it on and click it and all that stuff because, listen, I get it, you know, and you guys do such a graceful and in depth job at looking at something from 30 plus years ago, so there is context. I was horrified and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Danielle Fishel]

Great.

[Mark Blutman]

And you know, just what made it so wonderful. Listen, again, it was 93, 94. And there's some things that I wish, you know, maybe we didn't do, and we can get to that. But everybody's performance was so much fun. Everybody bought into it. You know, we weren't doing a serious Should Topanga Go to Yale episode.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

It was what it was. And. And I grew up on Happy Days.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And there were episodes that sometimes, you know, well, eventually. Jump the Shark.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. How about I. We went away, if not even Jump the Shark. This was more the Malachi Crunch episode with. With Pinky and Leather. Yeah. So that. That's where this one was in the. In the television zeitgeist, I think.

[Mark Blutman]

But it was always, you know, and one of the reasons why, you know, Howard and I had so much success on the show is because we were able to find those crazy stories. But always there was always a little bit of heart.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

You know, and at the end of the day, listen, I've said this before, maybe said it on this pod. My biggest influence was John Hughes, and John Hughes was all about coming of age. Right. Coming of age isn't just relationships between two people. It's an individual's, you know, journey to. From childhood into adulthood. But really, it's all the mistakes along the way.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, sure.

[Mark Blutman]

That was Corey and Sean.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, this was your fifth episode of five in your first season. So right out of the gate, writing at a fever's pace, how long did it take you to pitch your first wrestling storyline in the room?

[Mark Blutman]

You know, I think we. We had the story of Corey wanting to become a jock. And then from there, where it evolved, it was a pretty interesting story, and it's been told many times by certain people. And the accurate story is simply that we're sitting in the room and we're saying, well, if the story is going to take this direction and end up where Corey thinks he's just going to do a collegiate wrestling story and ends up in a professional wrestling match with all the farce that goes with it. Let's bring in a WWF at the time. Yeah, wrestler. See, that's. By the way, Ryder, when you go and meet people backstage, don't say wrestler, say wrestler. That'll buy you street cred. Now they. It's old school.

[Will Friedle]

Wrestler.

[Mark Blutman]

Wrestler.

[Ryder Strong]

But anyway, Ryder needs.

[Will Friedle]

Is WWE street cred.

[Mark Blutman]

I think that's what he's been. He's looking for.

[Will Friedle]

His wrestling name is the Poet. It does not evoke a lot of danger in the ring.

[Mark Blutman]

And by the way, funny you should say that. Back in the day Macho Man's real life brother was Lanny Poffo that for about four years did a gimmick as the poet laureate.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, that's funny.

[Mark Blutman]

And he came into the ring, was introduced and cited poetry.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, God. Powerbomb. Yeah. I love it.

[Mark Blutman]

That's so awesome. But anyway, so we're sitting in the room and I said to Michael, we have an organic way to make this work. Frankie's father, it makes sense that he has a father that's a wrestler. Big dude, let's find a wrestler. And there was an exec at Disney who has unfortunately since passed away, but super nice guy he was on the business side. His name was Mitch Ackerman.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, God, I remember Mitch right.

[Mark Blutman]

Long black hair, super, super hip. And we were introduced to each other and we would talk wrestling. In fact, there was a famous match during a WrestleMania that they called the Back Studio Lot Brawl. And it was Goldust against Roddy Piper. And it was a huge, huge match shown during. Well, Mitch had them pre tape the match in the studio lot at Disney. So I went to Mitch one day, we got together for lunch. I said, we want a wrestler on the show. And Mitch was my introduction to the guys at wwf. I mean, as Danielle knows now, I have several friends who are wrestlers with both WWE and aew. And back then I was just a fan. I've been a fan Since I'm 6, 7 years old. Mitch said, I'll set up a call. And he set up a call with myself and Bruce Pritchard, who you guys had on Brother Love.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mark Blutman]

Who's one of the brightest minds in the history of wrestling. He's more great storylines and been on cameras, great characters, and then almost anybody. You know, he's almost up there with Heyman, who's a wrestling genius. But anyway, we started throwing names out and once they said Vader, I went on like, how does that not make sense to be Frankie? Zip Code Stacchinos? Pops.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Can you remember any of the other names they threw out to you at the as possible wrestlers?

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah, I mean, they were throwing out all the top stars then that, you know, like Shawn Michaels was big then. And Jake Roberts, who we ended up using in the episode anyway.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Ted Dibiase, the Million Dollar man, all that. But the only one that made sense. It was like one of those things where the casting gods are like, yeah, come on, it's me. Casting God. This is it. This is the gift. It just was perfect.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this episode also falls into the very small window that is the griff Hawkins era. What do you remember about Adam Scott, who we think really shined in what is kind of a tough acting predicament?

[Mark Blutman]

We all know the stuff. We all love Danny and we all know the stuff, you know, that. That went on. And I love Danny so much. And to his credit, he's so open.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

I've seen his life and his journey. When Adam Scott, you know, who was a relative unknown then became available, I mean, just at that table, we're like, oh, my gosh, this guy is magic.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And, you know, it was. He was. What was great about the characters. He was the anti. Harley.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

The exact. He. He was, you know, Harley was intimidation and very 50s, you know, happy Days leather. And Griff was all cerebral.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, right.

[Danielle Fishel]

And was that an Adam Scott choice or was that in the breakdown when you auditioned people? Where did that distinction happen?

[Mark Blutman]

I'm pretty sure, again, you know, going back a fair amount of time, but I'm pretty sure he set out to create an opposite character. And then Adam brought so much of his own to it. And again, one of those things where, you know, first, maybe not first table read, but first run through, like, you know, we're back there with our notes and scripts going, oh, this kid's a star.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

You know, my only, you know, in looking at the episode, my only slightly cringe moment was the massage thing. Having the massage table, that was my only, like, oh, I wish I, you know, back then it was fine, you know, whatever, I guess. But now there's so many, you know, sexually exploitive connotations with massage. I would have gone right to the lobsters, the boys coming back from the airport, that that's the only thing I maybe would change. But. But Adam, I mean, he just was magical. And his storyline in that episode, the fact that he had, I'll use a word that would have aptly fit back then, Rolodex, that his Rolodex would have had both Bob Goulet and Yasmin Bleef in it. Who never did the episode, by the way.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. She was never on it.

[Will Friedle]

She wasn't there. She wasn't there.

[Mark Blutman]

This is what people don't know in watching back the episode when. When she entered the gym, I was like, yeah, no, Even back in 94, AI was happen.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. We. I've never seen that interview where she says or. I've never seen anything officially where she says she wasn't on the show. We've heard it.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah. So we've heard it. And I've heard It too. I've never actually seen it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. So maybe we need proof. If you have proof of her denying being on Boy Meets World, please send it to us. I'd love to actually story. It is a good story. Even if it's not true.

[Mark Blutman]

It's one step away from one of you like Will going, I never did that show.

[Will Friedle]

I didn't.

[Mark Blutman]

It was just. It was bizarre. And the beauty, what I think again of that episode is part of our success and part of why you guys are here, you know, 30 plus years later and there's an audience loyal both new and old is because of the wide range of stories and episodes we did.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

You know.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, it's so interesting to go back to this one, you know, now that we're like deep in season. Well, now we're not deep like just started season six. But like how much. How many other characters there are? Like just the sheer amount of guest stars and like storylines that have nothing to do with Eric or Sean or Corey. Even like Corey has like his storyline, but his storyline involves so many other people. It's like, it's just not. It's not something that we did after season four, really. Like basically season two and three where we were still experimenting and handing off stuff. And part of it has to do, I think with the fact that we are in school so much. Like you keep, you know, it's like the fact like Ben and like Corey and Sean, even though we're like the drivers of a story, we actually have a small part. There's still so many other actors taking over scenes and characters. And it's like. Right. That part partly must have been because they were over 18 and you had.

[Mark Blutman]

Listen, honestly, Ryder. Yes. Sometimes we would go, let's give, you know, David Combs or Wesley or whoever. Let's break. You know, like.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, but.

[Mark Blutman]

But more than that. And again, there was really a lot of Howard and I. We just thought like the bed and breakfast, like bring in these crazy people and just. It just. We were a couch show. We were not. Not like Girl Meets World, which is a Disney geared towards kids show. We were family couch show. So we wanted also to, you know, make sure the parents were enjoying the show.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mark Blutman]

And that's why sometimes we bring in these characters. But you know, in an episode like that, there were still organic moments to who everybody was. Will you, as Eric were a loyal brother?

[Will Friedle]

Sure.

[Mark Blutman]

And even when you just walked in because somebody sold you a ticket to see an idiot get beat up, it still. Yeah. Discovered it was your brother. You Hop in the ring to take on this behemoth.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, you.

[Mark Blutman]

In that particular episode, Ryder Strictly. It was, you know, some comic relief. But my favorite moment, of course, is starting the match, ringing the bell, going, what does this.

[Will Friedle]

What does this do? Yeah, it's great. The thing I'm noticing more than ever now that we're, like Ryder said, we just started season six, and now we're doing these throwback go backs. What's the rhyme we're using?

[Danielle Fishel]

What are they beind? Rewind.

[Will Friedle]

Thank you. The Be Kind Rewind episodes.

[Mark Blutman]

Shout out. Blockbuster. No, they're out of business. Okay.

[Will Friedle]

The first four seasons of Boy Meets World was four different sitcoms.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, season one and season two are two different sitcoms with the same cast. And so the more I'm watching them now and then going back, it's jarring to see how different. Like, you watch season two of Friends and season six of Friends, they're kind of the same.

[Mark Blutman]

It's.

[Ryder Strong]

They're.

[Will Friedle]

The. The characters are similar. They've grown a bit. Maybe some are dating where others aren't, but they're kind of the same show. You go back and you watch season one of Boy Meets World and season five of Boy Meets World. It's two different shows.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Now. Yes. And then you had the middle. Howard and I came on season two. We left in the middle of season five. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Right, right.

[Mark Blutman]

And there's a sensibility difference between Michael and us. Again, Michael's a genius. He's brilliant at what he does, and I learned a great deal. I'm. I give Michael a lot of credit in interviews. I'm as good as I am working with young cast members on set with notes, because I watched him.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure.

[Mark Blutman]

I didn't yell, you know, and I didn't become comfortable. Like, I. My style is still my style, but I listened to. He was very good at getting wonderful performance in a very. You know, Michael came from theater and, you know, studied theater. He loves. And that's how he approached it. And so I did learn a lot from. From him. But, yeah, it was a different show in the middle. The one I get the most, you know, constantly, is what happened to Eric.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, you get that a lot. Like, Eric is different than he was.

[Mark Blutman]

Partly Will Friedle's fault.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I think that's true.

[Mark Blutman]

And I'll tell you why. Because you were a freaking genius comedically.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

You were a young Jim Carrey. I was the first to say it. I said it one day. I don't remember the episode, but after a run through. I said, this guy's a young Jim Carrey. So we kept going. But the only thing we made sure to justify your character is nobody on the show had a bigger heart.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Eric, that was always the same.

[Mark Blutman]

And we. We throw you in with Tommy, and we throw you in with Bill in a scene and. And, you know, you. You. That's how we balanced it while we pushed the envelope and, you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you were investing in memorabilia played by Jeff Mannell, Baggy Bagwell of a guy who got hit in the head by a pitch more than Maggie Bagwell.

[Ryder Strong]

See, like, for me, going back, watching this episode again, and it's like, I know first season and second season are very different, but Corey's actually kind of the same character as he was in the first season here in a way that now Corey's not. I don't know who this Cory is. Like, this Corey who's sitting there going, you know, ah, the jocks. And how do I get. You know, he's sort of like this. This wise, like, cracking wise, average guy who just wants to be noticed and, like, stand out for some reason, get girls like that, that by season. The end of season five, that Cory is so far gone. And, like, I miss him watching this.

[Mark Blutman]

Let's be clear. Which Corey do you miss?

[Ryder Strong]

I miss the wise cracking.

[Will Friedle]

Like Dennis the Men.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, the Dennis the Men. Sort of like, I don't know what life is all about, but I'm going to. I know what I like, and I don't know where I fit in. Like that.

[Mark Blutman]

Which is universal John Hughes storytelling.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally. Totally.

[Mark Blutman]

And again, I'm not saying it because we left. He was an angry dude in the.

[Ryder Strong]

That's a. Yes. That's the thing.

[Mark Blutman]

A lot of those episodes. And I. There are episodes I've never seen, and I get on the writing side, and David Kendall says it all the time. There was no writer more Boy Meets World than. Than Blutman. I lived and breathed that show. I love that show. There are episodes I have not watched. And again, I'm not being lit. It's very easy all these years later to go, I would. I'm not saying I would have done better. I was saying I maybe would have done different because the Corey I would see, like you said, Ryder, he was just an angry guy. And that was the guy that Topanga wanted to, you know, spend her life with, was a little. I hope it's okay that I'm saying this.

[Will Friedle]

No, We've talked about the red flags. We've Talked about the red flags.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I mean I think that it's, it's, it's. There's so much comedy that came out of Corey being sort of neurotic and like anxious. Yeah. And that ends up being the source of a lot of his humor. And then a lot of the drama comes from his, his understanding of the universe and his understanding of reality and he and Topanga and the struggles of that which becomes kind of angry. Whereas like back here he has no clue what's going on. And I feel like Corey from week to week, week could find himself listening to Sean, listening to eric, listening to Mr. Feeny, listening to Mr. Turner. And each one is going to spin him in a completely different direction. And that is like way it's just more open and it's kind of more fun and I miss that. Yeah, I miss that.

[Mark Blutman]

Corey, you know, the ultimate, you were the audience surrogate in so many ways, the Sean character. I mean you were the audience's window into this young innocent trying to find his way. And then of course you had plenty of moments where you were finding your way. But you again, street smart, you know, however you grew up, you, you were a lot further advanced than Corey until you weren't.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. Right.

[Mark Blutman]

But you know again, one of the cool things about the Thriller and Fila of course, named after the Thriller in Manila in the 70s. Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, it still talked about to this day so frequently. And when I am backstage at a wrestling show, a young 30 something year old wrestler will say oh my favorite episode had Vader on and all that and when they, you know, he had passed away, but they inducted him into the WWE hall of Fame and, and one of the clips was from our show.

[Will Friedle]

Oh really?

[Mark Blutman]

That they showed in front of thousands of people and on TV they, you know, Invader's induction of all his highlights, there he is beating Ric Flair and fighting Hulk Hogan and all these matches. And there's the clip of, of him, you know, with all of, of you guys. And you know, one of the things, I don't know if you're going to ask me this Danielle, I know you, you, you talked questions but my single favorite moment in that show in that it. Okay, I mean.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, go ahead please. What's your favorite moment?

[Ryder Strong]

Single favorite.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just if you could pick one favorite moment from Thriller and Fella, what would it be?

[Mark Blutman]

Mark, I don't have to tell you. Oh, so it's so simple and it's one of the greatest most if you just steal a screenshot and send it out on the Internet, it goes crazy viral. People love it. It's the fact that Bill Daniels, William Daniels is acting with Vader.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And there were moments jump, jump over.

[Mark Blutman]

The ropes and then going face to face. The guy was in the Graduate. The guy was in 1776. The guy is one of Dr. Mark Craig on saying that the guy is one of the most accomplished actors in the world and he's acting with Vader, this behemoth wrestler, and he went toe to toe with him. And. And just the screenshot of Bill Daniels face to face with Vader, for me, is like the best. I just look back on it so fondly, you know, it just, it makes me really, really happy.

[Danielle Fishel]

We also noticed there's a jock in the episode named Savage. Was this a reference to Ben's last name?

[Mark Blutman]

Probably, yeah, probably. And I'll tell you another person I'm glad you're talking about the jocks and stuff that made it work work was Kelly Packard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, she's great.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Most people would have probably, especially in the 90s, gone with, you know, trophy esque. Not necessarily, you know, maybe stereotypical blonde or whatever. She was super smart and everything she did was on her terms. She knew who she was and she knew what she wanted and she played the heck out of it. So shout out Kelly Packard because she really, really help make that work and not have us fall in these tropes and traps of the 90s. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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Ooh, that sounds nice.

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[Will Friedle]

Now. I don't know if we talked about this the last time you were here. So Adam comes on, he's great. He kind of steals the episode. He's wonderful. Why then was all of a sudden the bullies were kind of like, we're not going to. We're not going to go with the bullies anymore. It was just like they were there and then they weren't.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah, I. It's probably budget and stuff. It's okay with turn. You know, it's funny like sometimes I look at a company like Disney and I'm like, I know what you're paying your CEOs. Can we not have the thugs?

[Ryder Strong]

Right? Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

You know, you got CEOs making 25, 30, 45 million a year. Can we have the thugs?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

What they cost like. And it never made sense. And so. So, you know, looking back, simple regrets for me personally were Anthony for sure.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Even Alex. But we never could service him. He deserved.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

That was the problem. And it was not intentional. It was not. You know, we just. For whatever reason, again, as you guys all said, there were all of a sudden our world just kept expanding.

[Ryder Strong]

So you don't remember with Tony like, like any conversations about, oh, now we're definitely not bringing Mr. Turner back.

[Mark Blutman]

Like, I mean I just remember Michael coming down from a meeting with the, you know, was the suits going? You know. No, like Tony's. Tony's done. You know, like he would to me. He was so important because of that positive messaging of always walk with the motorcycle helmet in case you fall.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

That's a very important message for the kids.

[Will Friedle]

I think so too.

[Mark Blutman]

Always carry your Tony was great.

[Ryder Strong]

Always read your Rex Men too. Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

West Point, Connecticut.

[Mark Blutman]

Because you don't know when there's gonna be a pop quiz on the comic books.

[Will Friedle]

I don't know. I don't read X Men over here. Come on, what's going on with you?

[Mark Blutman]

One of the reasons we had such success was because you guys did create an off screen family. And Tony was a big part of that family. And seeing him on set every day saw sucked.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And when I see him like, you know, a few months ago at Ryder's place, we did that little get together. Get together.

[Will Friedle]

You guys had a party.

[Mark Blutman]

No, no, no. No kidding. We had so many wrestlers there.

[Will Friedle]

I was invited to.

[Mark Blutman]

I know you were. Although why was security told?

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't.

[Mark Blutman]

Well, look at this guy.

[Will Friedle]

It's because every time I go to Riders I steal things.

[Mark Blutman]

It's fun seeing Tony there. I'm like, like, you know, and it wasn't me but you just feel a little like remorse going, man, of course, did you dirty?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

It's some way. Or the network did you dirty or the studio did. Like, nobody could sit there and go, well, he's not that good.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, no, right, right.

[Mark Blutman]

Nobody can look at him and say, well, he was a bad apple on the sack opposite. He taught Will how to golf.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Like, there's not a bad word you could say about Tony. And the audience loved him. So what were. What was that? And as far as, you know, Ethan and. And Blake and Danny, I, you know.

[Will Friedle]

It'S all just budget.

[Mark Blutman]

Then it's budget. I mean, you know, they would have been great at the wedding.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And that's what you do, you know, when you have these milestone moments like we did on Girl. We had everybody there. The audience loves that, man. That's their gift. It's our gift too, to be reunited. But when the audience sits there and goes, oh, there's those guys from season three and four who I love. They're back. We owe our audience those little gifts. That was all part of. Of, you know, television. And Will, as a historian, you know that. Yeah, I do know. You know, these moments of bringing characters back.

[Ryder Strong]

Or do you remember when.

[Will Friedle]

When Richie came back from. From on. On Happy Days, where you don't think he's gonna be there, and they go, I'm sorry, Richie couldn't come. And he runs in and goes, because I was waiting for the cab. And it's like, oh, my God, he's back. Yeah. These were huge moments in television.

[Mark Blutman]

The applause break.

[Will Friedle]

Yep, yep. Absolutely amaz.

[Mark Blutman]

And now, you know, that kind of stuff is gone. And I do think everything is cyclical and I do think those kind of things will come back. And they're all, you know, some multi cams. Danielle, you know, as you've directed, you know, Tim Allen and all the other ones that. They still work, don't they?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah, they do. The audience loves them. I mean, we have. We're doing those in front of a live studio audience and they're right along for every moment.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah, because. And the disconnect, I guess, in the execs minds are that because of the Internet and social media, there's no real boundary between fans and stars. They see them every day online type thing. But, you know, back then when multicam was so huge, when an audience got to come in and sit there and see these people up close and personal, that was magic for them. Yeah. You know, but now it's a little different because everybody feels like they know you guys because of the Internet and social.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

Ooh, that sounds nice.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

I was gonna ask you, why do you think wrestlers make such good actors? From the Rock to Batista to John Cena, the list goes on. Why do. What do you think the correlation there is?

[Mark Blutman]

Training. Every time they cut a promo, it's an acting class.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And they weren't good. You know, Andy Fickman, who is a director, producer I've been friends with for a long time, started off the Rock in a couple of his first movies. And he, you know, the Rock was not the Rock back then. It was like anything else. You know, you look back on your early work, or even me as a writer, I look back on my early work compared to my work now. I'm like, there's a difference. So it's the same with these guys. Guys, the big guys, like Cena. By the way, Cena has an incredible sense of comedic timing.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, he does.

[Mark Blutman]

He's a funny dude.

[Will Friedle]

He is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mark Blutman]

You know, Batista is who he is, and the Rock is an action figure come to life.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

But I think it's cutting their teeth on those promos day in, day out. Grabbing that mic and looking somebody in the eye and then looking into the eyes of the audience, millions and millions of people, and connecting with them.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Mark Blutman]

What? What a better. I mean, I couldn't think of a better acting class. So that would be my answer to that.

[Danielle Fishel]

If you had to pick Another wrestler, someone currently competing in the modern day to appear on Boy Meets World. Now, who do. Who would you pick?

[Mark Blutman]

Oh, it's Liv Morgan.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Oh, yeah, it's. It's absolutely Liv. I'll tell you, it's funny. I mostly am, you know, very like my favorite wrestlers now are all on the female side. I love Brit, as we've talked about Danielle.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mark Blutman]

I love Mariah May. You know, she's playing that sultry character and she plays the heck out of it. Toni Storm. But for me, it's live because if we're doing coming of age stories, Liv is the girl next door that everybody, every boy, every girl is gonna fall for. She's so likable, so accessible. She has such, you know, and any era kind of look. You can put her in the 50s and buy it. You could put her in the.

[Will Friedle]

So she's Topanga of the wrestling world.

[Mark Blutman]

Absolutely. And to further, you know, give Danielle her flowers. She has this incredibly larger than life, bubbly personality. And you just want to hang out with her. Yeah, you just want to. So 12, 13, 14 year old Liv Morgan or 16 for Eric Matthews. You know, whatever. All you guys would want to know this person, right? Be this person. I, I think her likability meter is off the charts.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm gonna ask you another hypothetical. It's season five of Boy Meets World. You're working on it. You now take complete creative control. Season five onward. What do you do? What would you do?

[Mark Blutman]

So that's a great question. Now, I think we left halfway through the season.

[Ryder Strong]

I think you guys left during the ski lodge episode, if I remember correctly. Right around there. So right around Corey, Topanga. We're not definitely getting married. We don't. Yeah. So.

[Mark Blutman]

So here. Yeah, this is. These are real con. I love this question. This is amazing, right? Because like, I think I was more careful the first time I was on. But now it's like you guys are all established. I had conversations in the room with all of us and Mike. I did not support them getting married. I did not. I just didn't think it was speaking to the generation of where we were going if in the other direction. Sure, right. You know, my mom was 20, my dad 25. When they got married. They stayed there 65 years. There was a lot even that would.

[Ryder Strong]

Have been two years after season five. That's what I mean. Like, you're talking that even that young getting married young still doesn't necessarily mean 18, so.

[Mark Blutman]

And again, it's Michael show and in his belief of love and Even in his own personal, you know, journey with his wonderful wife. They have hiccups along the way.

[Ryder Strong]

But that was your, one of your driving creative things. I would not have Cory Topanga, like destined forever. It should be. But you wanted Topanga still be on the show. You just wanted it to be more.

[Danielle Fishel]

You were trying to kick me off.

[Ryder Strong]

The show, get rid of that. Danielle Fisher, my dog.

[Mark Blutman]

Oh, of course. I think that my reality, you know, Michael, once he got you guys together, he knew he wanted to marry you guys. He believed in destiny, he believed in one love. He believed in all that stuff.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Mark Blutman]

I didn't. And again and as forward thinking and I'm. I don't know, what am I four years younger than Michael? I don't know, five years, whatever. I was the baby in the, in, in the room. But I just saw where we were going and you know, as, as society and I did, I, I even with my own kids, Kristen and I and we've been divorced for 10 plus years now. But you know, back when I was a kid, kid. And Michael has a very, you know, maybe has a more idealistic old fashioned way because of how he grew up. Like there were. I didn't. With our kids, we didn't say at 17, you have to know what you want to do for the rest of your life. You're going to college to study that, then you will get a job in that. We didn't raise our kids like that. That's how I was raised. So for me also, again, nothing wrong. I want to be very clear, nothing wrong with Corrine Depain getting married. That was Michael's wish and he executed it. And I would say. What would you say? More than half the fan base supports it. Right?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah. They did a vote back in the day of should they or shouldn't they and should they won?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So yeah, they asked the audience. Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And that's great. And. But I again saw moving a different way. Less pressure on kids to know what they want to do. Less pressure on kids to have to declare their profession when they leave frickin high school.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, right.

[Mark Blutman]

And that's, you know, also, and the marriage thing aside, now I'm talking about the kids and back in the day, the pressure, I think that's also partly a root of a lot of mental health issues in young people. It was that incredible pressure at 17, 18 years old to know what the heck you're doing for the rest of your.

[Ryder Strong]

So that's interesting. So you're actually taking what I think is a Very specific example, like the Cory Topanga, love, destiny, marriage thing. But you're. You're expanding it to all of our characters in a way. And all of our world, like the Boy Meets World world got very set season five onward as far as, like, these characters are these type of people doing this type of thing. And you're advocating for more of a sort of general, like, openness about where.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Growth, like keeping. Basically, we kind of came of age by season five and then just played out as those characters as opposed to keeping it. Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And what's the reality? You know, I'm 64 years old. I'm not done learning.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mark Blutman]

I'm not done changing. I'm not done rediscovering things that make me truly happy and experiencing those things. So in my view, I just think. Think that, you know, we all, as humans, continue to grow, continue to evolve, continue to make. We are never done coming of age.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Mark Blutman]

And that's the truth. We're never done coming of age. You know, there are, which is why, like, movies like the Big Chill back in the day, I loved it was a bunch of young adults coming of age.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, Right.

[Mark Blutman]

You know, around the death of a dear friend.

[Will Friedle]

Kevin Costner's arm. That was Kevin Costner in the casket.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I want to ask you about my yearbook quote in the episode. Are you familiar with the gestalt prayer? A gestalt prayer? Have you ever heard of that?

[Mark Blutman]

No.

[Danielle Fishel]

No. Okay.

[Mark Blutman]

But I'm laughing because obviously, you know, I. That's not me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Not from you. I know. I know.

[Mark Blutman]

I mean, you guys know me well enough to know Blockman's not going beautiful.

[Danielle Fishel]

So the official quote from Topanga is, I do my thing, and you do your thing. I am you. I am I, and you are you. If in the end, we end up together, it's beautiful. And I never knew where that came from or had never just thought it was from our show. And then a very smart listener revealed that it's actually from something called a gastro Gestalt prayer.

[Mark Blutman]

Tell me more. Like, is it like.

[Danielle Fishel]

Let me pull up the official gestalt prayer, because it's.

[Mark Blutman]

By the way, while you look for writer, you can use that with your poet wrestling character.

[Danielle Fishel]

There you go.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So gestalt prayer by Fritz Pearls. I do my thing, and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I. And if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.

[Ryder Strong]

We don't have to get married.

[Danielle Fishel]

It can't be helped.

[Mark Blutman]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

So healthy.

[Will Friedle]

So notice they cut out the healthy.

[Ryder Strong]

Watching this episode, when we have that moment. Danielle, like, I know we talked about it the first time when. When. When Corey and when Sean and Topanga have the moment at Chubby's where he's like, oh, you like him.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Ryder Strong]

It is so fun because it's like, oh, they're discovering Cory and Topanga. They're discovering this relationship. And there's. There's energy there. There's like real energy between the two of us. And then the ending where you read this beautiful quote also has energy. It's like, oh, my God, there's the potential. And I just. I miss that. I miss the, like, potential for Cory and Topanga to be something.

[Danielle Fishel]

And potential and unknowing and mystery and evolution for destiny. Gotta be. Let's get.

[Will Friedle]

It doesn't matter that it's toxic. Stay with it.

[Mark Blutman]

That's what I was gonna say, Will. Like, what was being shown on camera would make both of you.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Mark Blutman]

Run away.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

Make every viewer who was married go, I think we should maybe rethink this if we're gonna espouse destiny.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

And one true love. There should have been a little. The balance should have been a little more magic.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mark Blutman]

And angry Corey, who is basically telling the world. And you. I don't really want this.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Mark Blutman]

I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

Again, life is supposed to be miserable.

[Mark Blutman]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Stay miserable if you're the sake of love.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wonderful things.

[Ryder Strong]

So many women throwing yourselves themselves.

[Will Friedle]

Well, that's thing. It's just a world of temptation because you're Corey. You're the kid who just wants to be someone, but is also somehow the most popular kid that's ever walked the hallways of John Adams.

[Mark Blutman]

My parents. My parents generation. And before, how many people got married and had kids? Because that's what you do.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, of course.

[Will Friedle]

That's what you're supposed to do. And stayed in pretty unhealthy marriages. A lot of them. Not everyone, of course, but some unhealthy marriages. Because you just. This is it. You're married now. Ride it out.

[Ryder Strong]

So speaking of unhealthy marriages, we finally talk about mine. Bus gang. No. We recently interviewed your writing partner, Howard Busking. The episode has not aired yet, but we did talk to him. And one of the things that was so interesting is, like, we didn't actually talk to him that much back in the day. Like, he was so much more subdued and like. Like, behind the scenes than you. Cuz like you would just hang out with us. Like I remember you were always talking to me. Yeah, we talk about music, we talk about movies, like everything. Whereas with Bus Gang, we didn't. And so tell us about that relationship. What was it like working with him? What was the dynamic? How did. Because you were much more present to us. But talking to him, he's hysterical. We know that he must have brought so much to the. To the relationship into the writing. So how did that work out for you?

[Mark Blutman]

Great question. Did not know that it would be asked, but it's good. So Howard and I know each other since 1979.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, wow.

[Mark Blutman]

We grew up two streets away from each other. Two streets.

[Will Friedle]

And were you proud Americans? So we can continue talking with you. You grew up.

[Mark Blutman]

Well, I was born in Jersey, so.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, great.

[Mark Blutman]

I'm an actual American, not a Canadian.

[Will Friedle]

Who.

[Mark Blutman]

Who is hoping that my country gets swallowed up by yours in the ultimate Pac Man. Waka waka waka waka waka. Canada. Waka waka waka waka. Nova Scotia, Newfoundland.

[Ryder Strong]

Take it.

[Mark Blutman]

But so Howard and I became friends. And then it was before Boy Meets World. Danny Jacobson, a big showrunner, he had a show. He had two shows. He came from the home improvement camp, but he had two shows, Good Advice and Mad about you. And had a friend who was an assistant at Sony Tristar who said, they want to hire a team. I said, well, I'm not a team. I write alone. And she said, I can probably say you. You'll have a good chance of getting this gig if you're a team. I spoke to Howard and said, hey, you know, do you want to do this? And we went for the meeting. Here's the funny story with that. We go in, meet Danny Jacobson, notorious super talented guy. But his focus is were back in the day were two things. The betting form, horses and pot. And we walk in to a cloud of smoke. He goes, you seem normal. He hands us two VHS tapes. Go watch these two shows. Whichever one you want. I read your script. It's great. Whichever one you want, you could do. So we go watch Good Advice with Shelley Long, the late Treat Williams, George Weiner, Juliet Lewis's brother, Lightfield Lewis. Estelle Harris later played George's mom. Like this incredible cast. And the concept was simple. She, he was a marriage therapist and Treat Williams character was a divorce attorney. And they shared office space. So clearly they were going to have the same dance. We go, this show's going to run for 10 years.

[Will Friedle]

And the other's mad about you.

[Mark Blutman]

The other was mad about you that we said no to.

[Danielle Fishel]

So funny.

[Mark Blutman]

Said no to mad about you. Like what? That good advice. Ran one or two years, but. So Howard and I, our dynamic was, as you said, we were very different, both personally and professionally. And what was undeniable is our work was really good, but we were a broken marriage. We were Corey and some ladies. And we, like you guys don't know this, but normally. Normally the norm was writing teams share an office. By year three, Michael went to Karen McCain and said, get them their own offices.

[Ryder Strong]

Really?

[Danielle Fishel]

We had our own offices? How long were you guys a team?

[Mark Blutman]

Good advice. Through 98 or 99 grownups. With Jaleel. I know you guys had Jaleel White on and we did his show. Show. So I'd say about eight, nine years. And that was it. Like, people think that we were together forever. The work was always really good and the combination worked and. But, you know, personally, it was just hard for both of us. We're very different. I love sports. You know, he loves deli.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. He's gonna name a sandwich after me, hopefully if I keep. If I keep bugging about it.

[Mark Blutman]

That's the plan to make up for the wrestling. No name.

[Will Friedle]

I want my own sandwich. Yeah. Yep.

[Mark Blutman]

Person next to Danielle Brisket sandwich works for me. But anyway, you know, we had a really great 8, 9, 10 year run working together. He's super, super talented, and I wish him nothing but, you know, love and success and happiness.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, Mark, you were an integral part, as was Howard, of Boy Meets World. And it is now a show, as Ryder mentioned, We've been watching. We've watched straight through. Through five seasons, and we. We see your mark, we feel your mark, and we love you, Mark.

[Mark Blutman]

I love you guys, too, so much.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much for coming back to reminisce with us and for talking about Boy Meets World. Without you, there really, there is no Boy Meets World. So thank you so much for your contributions over those years and it's always great to have you and shout out.

[Mark Blutman]

To all the fans and thanks for supporting these guys. They deserve it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Ryder Strong]

Thanks, man.

[Danielle Fishel]

Mark, good to see you. Mark. Talk soon.

[Ryder Strong]

Bye, buddy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gosh, I. I don't. Obviously we didn't know any of the backstory, but I wonder, like, knowing both of them, I. I still find it hard to believe they needed separate offices, you know, like. Like, I wonder what it was about even just being so different that, like, they couldn't be in this, they couldn't share an office.

[Will Friedle]

Can you even imagine Howard raising his voice? Voice. Like, even just.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think they would have, like, outward conflict. I think it would probably just be like they would get on each other's nerves. Yeah, we had. We got to take a break. I mean, you know, but is there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Anybody you wouldn't get on someone. Anybody who wouldn't get on someone else's nerves? If you're, like, sharing an office 24.

[Will Friedle]

And the, the, that writing staff there, sometimes till 3:00 in the morning, you're redoing everything. They're doing five or six scripts a season. I mean, that's. It's a lot of work.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a ton. That's why it's magical when it, when it works.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, when it, when it's good, it's good. I've only known. I've only known a few writers who are, like, just in love with their room, you know, who. They're so happy most of the time. It's a lot of. A lot of anxiety, a lot of competition, a lot of backstabbing. Less so nowadays. But I feel like, especially back in the day, it was. It was all like just trying to get your name on that script, trying to get your joke in. And, and, and that's.

[Will Friedle]

If you were a man, forget if you were a woman. It was 100.

[Ryder Strong]

You should be in the room.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. Totally. If you're even in there. It's an entirely different world.

[Ryder Strong]

I think nowadays it is. I think it's, you know, it's more accepting. It's more like of a safe space. But I also know that Covid took a big, you know, it had a huge effect. Everybody was sort of suddenly having, like, zoom meeting writing rooms and, like, I think it's gone back in person a lot more. But it's a, it's a. It's an interesting culture.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I've never really experienced it firsthand.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. Me neither. No, me neither. I've never, never been in it. But. Yeah, you didn't like it at all. But if you think about what makes a really good writer's room, you're going to need a lot of very unique POVs. You're going to want different people with different POVs and different experiences and then different skill sets and different skill sets and different preferences and different. And, you know, maybe kind of their own niche. And so you're gonna have people that are really different from you and that, you know. Yeah. If you think about spending every single day, hours on end, you're gonna get annoyed. You're just, it's going to, it's gonna happen.

[Will Friedle]

I think it's also always depends too on the leadership in the room. I think whoever's leading the room is gonna, is gonna dictate what type of room it is. Yeah. So, I mean, when we had Barbie on, Barbie was talking about, you know, how she's like, oh my God. And one of the last shows I was all women and I was one of the people in and it was the greatest thing in the world. I mean, you just, you never know. It's, it's all about who's kind of leading the room too. I think that's true. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails. Podmeetsworldshowmail.com and we have merch fade in.

[Will Friedle]

Interior booth continuous. Danielle says. And we have merch cut to Will, who says. Merchant, Ryder and Danielle fake laugh. Fade out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Podmysworldshow.com will send us out.

[Will Friedle]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle and Rider Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sutton, suedbacksh producer Matty Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram @podmeatsworldshow or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com the New Year's here.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive.

[Ryder Strong]

Here's how it works. Buy up to $30 of Colgate Palm olive products. Snap a pic of your Versailles receipt and upload it to cprewards.com that's cprewards.com.

[Will Friedle]

And get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card.

[Ryder Strong]

Start your year fresh by earning cashback.

[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Past 10 years, a lot has come and gone in my life, but one thing that stayed consistent, a Samsung phone. You couldn't get me to change even if you tried. And trust me, many have. And now with my newest phone, the Galaxy S25 Ultra from Samsung, I have a true AI companion, making life easier and more efficient. And for years people have asked how my photos look so good and I can't yell it loud enough. It's because I have a Samsung and with the new 50 megapixel ultra wide lens it's even better for beautiful scenic views and a little extra room for a few more family members to fit in the frame frame. You're welcome Uncle Pete. Are you ready to let this mind blowing new phone do more for you so you can do you Then trust me and get your Galaxy S25 Ultra now at samsung.com this is Ashley Kineti.

[Unknown]

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