Dancing with…Cheryl Burke

Summary

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Pod Meets World – "Dancing with…Cheryl Burke"

Date: October 24, 2025
Host: Danielle Fishel
Guest: Cheryl Burke

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Episode Overview

This episode reunites “Boy Meets World” star and podcaster Danielle Fishel with dance legend Cheryl Burke, marking Cheryl’s celebrated return as a guest judge on Dancing with the Stars (DWTS) for the fan-favorite Halloween night. Their conversation blends personal journeys, DWTS insider wisdom, the evolution of the competition, and authentic reflections on dance, fandom, and the pressures of modern social media. Fans of both Boy Meets World and DWTS get a heartfelt look at perseverance, growth, and the magic (and grind) behind the glitter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cheryl’s Return as DWTS Guest Judge

Timestamps: 05:20–06:56

• Cheryl describes the experience of coming back to the ballroom after her “retirement,” noting the show’s renewed popularity and new audience.
• She reflects on the emotional journey of moving from dancer to enthusiastic fan, and now to judge, saying:

  “It’s been two decades of my life, basically… and I have gone through it just emotionally. Even if I’m not a part of it anymore.” (05:52, Cheryl)

The Grueling Process & Trusting the Process

Timestamps: 07:55–09:23

• Cheryl offers mentorship advice to Danielle, highlighting how to survive the mentally and physically taxing DWTS schedule:

  “You really have to trust the process and literally just surrender to Pasha, which is easy to do because he knows what he’s doing.” (08:49, Cheryl)

• Danielle echoes this mantra:

  “I’ve been saying, trust the Pasha.” (08:58, Danielle)

Behind-the-Scenes Mishaps and Glam Department Praise

Timestamps: 09:03–10:40

• Danielle narrates near-miss moments with intense lifts and dips during rehearsal, giving listeners insight into DWTS’s off-camera risks.
• Both praise the hair and makeup (“glam”) team for their Emmy-winning, if underappreciated, contributions:

  “The department of glam… they’re Emmy-winning. And I agree with you… Whenever they don’t win, I’m just shocked.” (10:14–10:40, Cheryl)

Cheryl’s DWTS Origin Story

Timestamps: 18:38–22:33

• Cheryl shares how she was scouted after competing in the California Open ballroom competition and her initial skepticism about DWTS.
• She credits DWTS for helping her find her voice as a young woman in a male-dominated industry:

  “I do credit Dancing with the Stars for giving me my voice.” (21:35, Cheryl)
  “I had to speak up for myself. Like, there was no way around it...” (22:33, Cheryl)

Navigating Partner Dynamics and Setting Boundaries

Timestamps: 22:45–25:18

• Cheryl and Danielle exchange war stories about personal boundaries, career pivots, and learning to say “no” as women in entertainment.

  “I have to learn how to set boundaries now. What? Like, what does that mean?” (24:40, Cheryl) “I feel like I just learned it about 10 years ago… I’ve had no boundaries.” (24:57, Danielle)

Why Winning Isn’t About Perfection, and the Power of Presence

Timestamps: 25:20–28:33

• Cheryl insists her success on DWTS came not from fixating on the win but focusing on week-by-week personal and partner improvement:

  “It was never about that [winning]. It was about…just improving a little bit next week.” (25:40, Cheryl)

• She counsels Danielle (and listeners):

  “It forces you to be present because that’s all you can be.” (26:27, Cheryl)

The "Dance Experience Debate" — Is Experience an Advantage?

Timestamps: 28:45–31:04

• Both discuss the perennial controversy over contestants’ prior dance experience, with Cheryl downplaying its importance:

  “…It doesn’t necessarily work in your favor… it’s also not purely a dance competition, obviously.” (28:45, Cheryl)

• Public voting makes it about relatability and struggle, not just skill:

  “You want to see struggle — or else there’s…why would anyone root for you?” (31:20, Cheryl)

The Role of the Professional Dancer – Traits of a Great Partner

Timestamps: 32:00–35:09

• Cheryl reflects on what different partners (Emmitt Smith, Rob Kardashian, Jack Osbourne, etc.) brought to their seasons.
• Authentic partnership and emotional investment matter most:

  “I am invested in a different way. It’s not just a job for me… I can’t fake it.” (32:00, Cheryl)

Creative Constraints, The Power of Experience, and “Fairness”

Timestamps: 41:06–44:11

• Cheryl debunks theories of favoritism, explaining how music selection and production resources are largely non-negotiable and driven by logistics, not bias.
• Experience, she argues, is not an unfair advantage—it’s something earned:

  “You having a wealth of knowledge and experience…is not an unfair advantage.” (43:58, Danielle)

Social Media, Toxicity & Relatable Vulnerability

Timestamps: 44:11–48:43

• The hosts dig into the intense, sometimes toxic online fan discourse surrounding DWTS. Cheryl laments the rise of nasty, dehumanizing comments and the impact on contestants—especially women.

  “Whether you want to call it bullying or just complete…It’s shocking. And I can’t even block enough people.” (45:08, Cheryl)

• Danielle recounts a friend’s strategy for disarming trolls by simply responding with sincerity:

  “Every single time, the response is, I didn’t think you would even see this…I am actually a big fan.” (47:29, Danielle)

Mentorship, Technique, and Real Performance Advice

Timestamps: 49:28–54:31

• Discussion shifts to technical notes, from hand carriage to ballroom posture. Cheryl offers actionable “pro tips”:

  “Think of your spine that goes. It doesn’t stop here. Right. It stops here.” (52:00, Cheryl)
  “You need to feel it because I need to see that. I need to see your emotion through motion.” (54:31, Cheryl)

Would Cheryl Ever Return as a Competing Pro?

Timestamps: 56:20–57:19

• Cheryl leaves the door open (“never say never”) but concedes it’s unlikely for now, humorously referencing the toll on her body and her regular bodywork to avoid joint replacement.

All-Star Speculation & Favorite Former Partners

Timestamps: 57:09–57:32

• Danielle asks who Cheryl would want as a partner if All-Stars returned.

  “Jack Osbourne or Rob Kardashian… I just love them as human beings.” (57:15, Cheryl)

The Unsung Workload of the Pros

Timestamps: 57:36–58:49

• Danielle highlights the immense unseen labor required of the professionals:

  “…The amount of patience and time and effort…You’re a therapist…a physical therapist…with a smile and while being microphoned and on camera.” (57:36, Danielle)

• Cheryl is visibly grateful:

  “Thank you for noticing that. Because a lot of people don’t even notice it.” (58:29, Cheryl)

Cheryl’s Final Advice for Danielle

Timestamps: 53:40–56:16

• “I want to see raw. I can forgive that. There’s no perfection. There’s no such thing as—what is perfect?… I want you to embody this music. You need to know this music inside and out…I need to see your emotion through motion. And don’t fake it…Find that emotion.” (53:40–56:16, Cheryl)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Cheryl on Surrendering to the DWTS Process

“You really have to trust the process and literally just surrender…take it one step at a time.” (08:49)

On Finding a Voice

“I do credit Dancing with the Stars for giving me my voice.” (21:35)

About Struggle and Viewer Connection

“You want to see struggle… Or else why would anyone root for you?” (31:20)

Toxic Online Discourse

“What kills me is women doing this to other women…” (45:08)

Pro Tips on Performing

“Transitions are key. More important than anything else.” (37:01, Cheryl) “You need to embody this music… I need to see your emotion through motion.” (54:31, Cheryl)

On Setting Boundaries and Growth

“I have to learn how to set boundaries now. What? Like, what does that mean?” (24:40, Cheryl)

Would She Return?

“Never say never. Is my body saying, yes, please, let's do this now? No.” (56:41, Cheryl)

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Important Timestamps for Reference

• Cheryl’s announcement as DWTS judge: 05:20
• Near rehearsal accident, backstage stories: 09:03–10:40
• Halloween night & performance memories: 14:11–17:26
• DWTS origin and finding her voice: 18:38–22:33
• The importance of boundaries: 22:45–25:18
• Dance experience controversy: 28:45–31:04
• Contemporary, props, and partner effort: 33:29–35:02
• Voting system and fairness: 29:50–31:04, 41:06–44:11
• Online toxicity and social media: 44:11–49:21
• Mentorship & technical advice: 51:27–56:16
• All-Star speculation and gratitude: 57:09–58:49

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, insightful, and relatable—marked by mutual respect, warmth, humor, and honesty.

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For DWTS fans, podcast listeners, or anyone who follows women’s journeys in entertainment, this episode is both a masterclass in resilience and a celebration of vulnerability, experience, and growth.

Transcript

[Cheryl Burke]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Oh hello. I am Danielle Fishel, whose name is not only in the title of this show, But I'm also a TV director, a podcaster, a mom of two, and now called Topanga by cool teen girls at my local menchies yogurt shop. Thanks to Dancing with the Stars popularity on TikTok. And God bless them for that. And maybe, just maybe, they're following along with my journey thanks to this podcast, where I am chronicling my entire process, learning things like the Argentine tango and what compression leggings are, all in the hopes of holding a Len Goodman mirrorball trophy above my head like a seasoned hockey player finally drinking champagne out of the Stanley Cup. And along the way, I will be chatting with pros, former contestants, modern peers, and absolute legends in hopes that the knowledge can get me even closer to that final boss and unexpected victory. And this week, I say the word legend with extra emphasis. She joined Dancing with the stars in season two and participated on the show for a whopping 25 seasons, setting her as the professional with the most seasons to her name. She has two mirrorball trophies to go along with that distinction. And worth noting, those victories were in her first and second seasons, so learning curves be damned. And now she will be making a triumphant return to the ballroom to be guest judge for the upcoming Halloween night, a yearly tradition that constantly proves itself as one of the most entertaining and sometimes unpredictable of the year. It would be impossible to mention Dancing with the Stars as a franchise without mentioning my guest. This week, I'm honored to be sitting with a pioneer of the competition, Cheryl Burke.

[Cheryl Burke]

Hi. I was just gonna. I was about to say how impressed I am with you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh.

[Cheryl Burke]

So impressed. I'm an Argentine tango snob. Are you?

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. Okay. I really want to talk to you about it because. Well, for one thing, your opinion means a great deal to me. And. And two, I have. I have my feelings on it, but, you know, I know. I know absolutely nothing. And I know Pasha is like, Argentine tango is just his thing.

[Cheryl Burke]

Also, like, similar to the best partner for Argentine tango.

[Danielle Fishel]

He really is. I mean, he's. I think he's just the best partner, period. But, I mean, I just can't say enough wonderful things about him.

[Cheryl Burke]

But.

[Danielle Fishel]

So I do. I want to talk to you about the Argentina, but I'm going to save it for a little bit later because I want to jump into right away this very big announcement that you are returning to the Dancing with the Stars ballroom. How excited are you to be in a judge's chair for Halloween night?

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, my gosh. First of all, just to be in the judge's chair. Just to hear that, it's so surreal. I, you know, just a little backstory for any new fans, because there are tons of them.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yes.

[Cheryl Burke]

You know, I started back in 2006. I did 20. A total of 26 seasons, but including juniors. So technically, I guess I've only had 23 partners, if you really want to analyze it. But it has been such a. My. It's been two decades of my life, basically. Right. So most of my life I've been on the show and I have, you know, gone through it just emotionally as far as now being a fan. Right. Because, like, though, of course, you know, I retired, it was my decision. It's still such an emotional journey, even if I'm not a part of it anymore. And to be able to come back. The show has really, like, in a way, started over, but has a whole new fan base and is so popular and I'm just so happy or the show. I've been back here behind my screen just cheering everybody on because I know what it takes and I know how grueling, but yet how life changing this experience is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely. Well, they are lucky to have you in that judge's chair. I'm so excited to see you there next week. Having had Kim Johnson there two weeks ago and everyone loved her in that fourth chair, I think you're going to be able to bring the same thing she brought, which is you have been on all sides of it. You do know it from the inside. You have. You have worked with the celebs. You know what it takes to teach to win, to struggle to. To sometimes disagree with your partner. You know what it's like to, you know, not have control over your music, not have control over what your production is that week. To have very strong thoughts about things and not necessarily get your way and to have very legitimate tips for all of us about what we can be doing to improve. Because you have had to teach 23 partners and you won in your first.

[Cheryl Burke]

Two seasons back in 1962. Don't do it. Don't age us like that, you know? Yes. I mean, when you put it like that. Yeah, it is. I know. I know exactly what it's like. Even if the show has changed, obviously, we all evolve. Things evolve. But it's still back to the foundation of what the show is, which, like I said, is an emotional roller coaster. But if you allow it, if you surrender to the experience and trust the process and just take it, like, literally one step at a time, don't even think about the dance. Like, think about, what's your next one? What's your next step like? Because you're at the point now where it's Halloween night and you're getting introduced to two dances, and this ain't gonna get easier, you know? But what is going to get easier is you know what it's like now. You know what it's like. And this is where you really have to trust the process and literally just surrender to pasha, which is easy to do because he knows what he's doing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. I've been saying, trust the pasha. Trust the pasha.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yes. I love that.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's a little spin on trust the process, but it still works. And I just. I have. I have just. I. When he tells me to do something, I go, okay, And. And so how do I do that? And, you know, this last week was a. Was a good experience, a good opportunity to show that. Because I've never done lifts, Aside from the fact that I've never done any sort of dance.

[Cheryl Burke]

You don't end in that dip every night.

[Danielle Fishel]

So weird. I've never been nose to the ground before like that, so.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah, you are nose to the ground. He got you down.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, during dress rehearsal, we actually were all. We were millimeters from my face hitting, because.

[Cheryl Burke]

Even better.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I know. And I was like, do it again, But. But this time I won't put my hands there because, like, as you know, you can have, like, a thousand thoughts go through your head in such a short amount of time. And we were spinning in the air, and we had so much momentum. And then I could tell based on the way he rolled me that he did not actually have me. And I was like, oh, the wood floor is coming really, really quickly.

[Cheryl Burke]

And. And.

[Danielle Fishel]

And it got to about right here. And he was literally. He's gripping my leg like this. And I put.

[Cheryl Burke]

You're wearing tights, right? I was wearing. Is it slippery?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. And the dress was, you know that, like, mesh.

[Cheryl Burke]

And you looked stunning.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much.

[Cheryl Burke]

Stunning.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

[Cheryl Burke]

Who did. Who's doing your makeup this season?

[Danielle Fishel]

Lois.

[Cheryl Burke]

She's amazing. I mean, they're all amazing. They're all amazing, mind you, but they're so underrated. The department of glam.

[Danielle Fishel]

Because yet they're Emmy winning. And I agree with you.

[Cheryl Burke]

I mean, they need to win Oscar. I mean, not like the show. It's Oscar worthy, but you know what I'm saying. I know. They're just like, when. Whenever they don't win, I'm just shocked.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. That is the feeling is how do they not win every year. It's. It's there.

[Cheryl Burke]

I ask you a question?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Did you request Pasha?

[Danielle Fishel]

I did not request Pasha. I actually requested someone else and I and I didn't get my wish.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay. Do you have any regrets? 0.

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[Cheryl Burke]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

When you were on the show, was Halloween night always a favorite for you?

[Cheryl Burke]

I am a passionate person.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

If you don't know that about me.

[Danielle Fishel]

It comes across and I love it.

[Cheryl Burke]

I love those passionate, sultry dark dances. Yeah, I think that there's something obviously I don't. You know, I never like to fake emotion when I perform. So this is why I hate the jive, for example, because I'm like, sometimes I don't feel like I want to be all happy, go lucky all the time. You know, it's easier for me to find that, like, dark place for some reason. But the dark, I like to turn into fire and like, passion. Especially if the music, it's all about the music, right? You can give me a. You can give me a passionate dance and then have like some campy song and I'm just like, oh, what a waste. But like you said, we have no choice. Sometimes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sometimes you're just handed the song you're.

[Cheryl Burke]

Handed that'll look and it is what it is. Trust the process. But I love Halloween for that. Now. I don't like getting scared like I the Oscar movie in my head sometimes because I, you know, I live alone with my, with my Frenchie. And I mean, it would be shocking if I ever put this to pen or to paper my thoughts of, like, what could happen to me at night. And just like, I can't even watch, like, it's the music. I realized it's the music.

[Danielle Fishel]

It is the music.

[Cheryl Burke]

100%. It's the music, not the action. It's the music.

[Danielle Fishel]

If you mute a scary movie, you can watch it without any emotion at all. You're like, oh, oh, yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

When David Arquette did Dancing with Stars, he took all of us to Hollywood Horror nights. And I wore AirPods. Or I don't even know there was AirPods back then. But anyway, I wore headphones. Headphones. And literally, people just kept popping out at me, and I was like. I was totally fine. It's the music. It's music.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really smart. Really smart. Because I get asked to go to those things with friends all the time, and I'm like, guys, I don't want to be the fuddy duddy, but I don't want to do that. I don't like spending any time of my life jumping out of my skin with my cortisol spiking and, like, my heart racing. I. I don't want that. That does not sound like an enjoyable. Is anyone interested in going for a meal? Are you hungry?

[Cheryl Burke]

A good old conversation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, like, maybe.

[Cheryl Burke]

Right, right. Like, I know. I agree. And by the way, if you want to, like, imagine. I mean, it's so easy nowadays just to, you know, be that person who goes crazy. I'm not even gonna put it out there. Like, all you have to do is, like, wear a screen mask and you're screwed. Like, you never know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. You never know.

[Cheryl Burke]

You're right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't want to put myself in any situations where that becomes easier. I want to talk to you specifically about some of your own Halloween dances, mainly your Oingo boingo performance with Juan Pablo to Dead man's party.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, my God. Do you remember it?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, my God.

[Cheryl Burke]

Of course I rem. Remember it. I'm gonna be Cleopatra for Halloween night again. Yes. I want to be able to get that headpiece, but I don't think I can. Oh, rented.

[Danielle Fishel]

Reach out to. Oh, really? I was gonna say reach out to Daniela. Maybe they still got it somewhere.

[Cheryl Burke]

I know I'm gonna see what my stylist comes up with. But it's so weird, like, that I don't have fittings. Like, the whole thing. It's gonna be like home, going home. But it's also gonna be like, wow, this is a different perspective, which I'm so excited to experience.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. Do you remember? Well, I guess. I guess, you know, remember those OTFs where.

[Cheryl Burke]

Remember those. Of course I remember those master interviews. I basically can interview myself. When I got Covid and I danced in my living room, I had to do my own master interview.

[Danielle Fishel]

How did that happen? I mean, how did that work when you got Covid and then you were dancing from your living room?

[Cheryl Burke]

I don't know, because it was actually. I was like, oh, wait, I can do different jobs on this show, not just teach. I was like, I could be the set director. I could be a field producer, probably. I just felt like it was really fun, though. What wasn't fun was being like, out of breath every two seconds.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right? Exactly.

[Cheryl Burke]

And, yeah, and having to teach. What they didn't show was the next week, we had two dances, and I had to teach my partner Cody, via Zoom both dances because he was still in New York, and he couldn't fly because he had Covid.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. Teaching via Zoom.

[Cheryl Burke]

New dance and drive. Wow. Never forget it. Some.

[Danielle Fishel]

Some different dances, too. Like, on opposite ends of the.

[Cheryl Burke]

Well, we still had Covid. Now, that.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is really bad. How did Dancing with the Stars first enter your life? How did they reach out to you and ask you to come be a pro?

[Cheryl Burke]

I was a competitor, so I had just turned pro in the industry of ballroom dancing. And I was living in Harlem at the time with my dance partner slash boyfriend, and I was. We went to compete in a competition in Los Angeles called the California Open. And I remember seeing season one had just wrapped, and I, of course, watched it, you know. Cause it had, like, Charlotta Jorgensen, who was. I think she won with John o'. Hurley. Yeah. No, Kelly. No, she won first. Anyway. Whoa. Anyway, then I saw Louis. Yeah. Like, I said, 1961. Louie was on. And I was like, oh, this is not going to last long. I said, this is kind of cheesy. I was like, hey, but more power to them. But I'll never do it. I had, like, I was at the height of my career, so, you know, in the industry, the judges, the adjudicators, they expect your partnerships to last long. Right. So when you always constantly switch or you pause and then you come back, you got to start all over again. And that is a longer journey. And I felt like I was literally at the peak of my career, and I did not. I would have never. Because someone did ask me just, like, casually, like, would you ever do that? I'm like, no, unless my partner decides to leave me. Like, no, I wouldn't. And I also knew it was going to be temporary, but same with my dance career, but not as temporary. I didn't think it was going to last 26 or. Sorry. I didn't think it was going to last however many seasons. How many seasons is it?

[Danielle Fishel]

30. Fourth season. 20 years. Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

I can't wait till they celebrate the 100th season. We're all gonna come in with walkers. Oh, my God. But, yeah, so they saw me compete, and I think they wanted to recruit more dancers for season two because they only have six couples for season one. Then they jumped up to see 12 couples, and so I went in for an interview. Okay. So I Don't. I had no voice. Like, not like meaning, like you asked me what my favorite color was. No idea. I had no identity. Poor little Cheryl. I had no identity. You know, I was very much okay, I guess, with just not being a leader in that sense. Like this is the ballroom. This was no longer, but this was, I would say that ballroom industry where it was a man's world, not so much now at all. But you know, my partner was like 12 years my senior and it's like I, he was used to being a pro. I had just turned pro. So like I didn't think for myself ever, ever. So when I had to go in and do an interview in my little pink fringe, spaghetti like fringe costume with my short little hair, I was so nervous, I could barely talk. I had like a little mousy voice. So I do credit Dancing with the Stars for giving me my voice.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow. How old were you at the time?

[Cheryl Burke]

20.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gosh, so young.

[Cheryl Burke]

I know. I was 20 when I auditioned and then I started when I was 21. My goodness, 41 now.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, what a beautiful story and relationship then that you like all relationships. A bit of a roller coaster, I'm sure. Highs and lows, but yeah, like anything. But what an amazing thing to be able to look back at 20 year old you and recognize a totally different person.

[Cheryl Burke]

Totally.

[Danielle Fishel]

And to say, while of course, hopefully giving yourself a lot of credit, of course. But to say had, if not for this show coming into my life at 20, who knows how long it could have taken for you to break out of a very male dominated space and to start to find your voice. So what a gift that was and what a beautiful thing that you're even able to recognize it and acknowledge it.

[Cheryl Burke]

That's so great. Yeah, absolutely. I mean like the, I had to, I had to speak up for myself. Like, there was no, there was no way around it though. It took me a couple of years, but it was like it was training one on one. Like I had to do this. I was on a show.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow. So they hire you and now you pretty much immediately change your mind. You go, I'm. You had gone from saying I will never do that show to deciding to accept doing the show. How did that go over with your partner?

[Cheryl Burke]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay. So actually I was going to go back to my partner, to my competitive life after season two because there was no pickup yet right away, at least to season three. But we knew it was going to happen. However, it was still another year. Right. For that to happen. So. But because we were Involved romantically. It's just. All I'll say is just got a.

[Danielle Fishel]

Little sucky, got a little messy and.

[Cheryl Burke]

Got messy and just didn't work, unfortunately. But again, I'm grateful for everything in my life, or else I wouldn't be here today. Right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

So you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Then you end up going back to the show. You win your first season, by the way. Hello.

[Cheryl Burke]

Incredible.

[Danielle Fishel]

You then go back after you did your first season, did your mind kind of change about the show? Did you then start to recognize, like, I think they've got something here. I think this might last?

[Cheryl Burke]

Right away, it changed right away. It changed from the moment. Because I mind you, my goal was never to be on tv. I was gonna be a ballroom. I was gonna. When I retired. Cause, you know, as women, you retire probably 30s. I was gonna just advocate. Like I was gonna. I know, right? So old.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So old.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gotta retire.

[Cheryl Burke]

But that's it. It is what it is. Especially as women. Men have a way longer of a career than women. It's like athletes, right? Like, you can only go so long, unfortunately. But within that time, you don't think about what's next. You just are in it, you know? And that is another conversation we'll have because there is that missing piece where it's like, oh, my God, now what? Because I still have my whole life ahead of me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly. I know I've retired from this thing I've been doing for, by the way, 20 years. And now. And now what do I do? What do I dedicate myself to? Yeah, really? Really.

[Cheryl Burke]

I have to learn how to set boundaries now. What? Like, what does that mean?

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. God, what? Even. Just learning what a boundary is is like, such a learning curve when you're a young woman who has basically been at the whim of every.

[Cheryl Burke]

I just literally just learned it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I also just learned. Well, feel like I just Learned it about 10 years ago in my. In my mid. In my early 30s, 34ish. I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I've had no. I've had no boundaries.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, right. Oh, and I'm allowed. No, no, it's a complete sentence. Wait, what?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah. Really crazy.

[Cheryl Burke]

As long as you learn it, that's all that matters.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Better late than never. In your first season, you were paired with one of my favorite people in the world, Drew Lacheneur. I love him so much. And you win the mirror ball. Did you always see Drew from day one as a contender, or did that grow as the season went on?

[Cheryl Burke]

Hell no. But, see, this is the Thing. This is. I think this is why I was successful. Because it was never about that. It was about. I mean, for me, it wasn't. Of course they give you those lines, but I just refused to say those lines. Like, I didn't. I. For me, it was honestly about just improving a little bit next week. It just. That was it. Like when I. And I have tried it every way possible. As you can imagine, I have been mirrorball hungry one season after I won my first two. That didn't work. It just. It doesn't work when you think too far ahead of the game. And I knew this. And so my job is to calm my partner down when my partner gets too ahead of himself and to really. And it forces you to be present because that's all you can be.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Cheryl Burke]

Because the future is going to stress your out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Don't worry about it. There's nothing to worry about. Stop making things up.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. There's also, when it all comes down to it, very little within your control. And so let's just focus on the things that are in our control. Like what. What your next step is, what you're. What you're gonna wear. Like, you know, let's kind of come Ish. Let's. Let's have a hand in the things we have a hand in and why stress ourselves out about all of the many things that are just completely out of our control?

[Cheryl Burke]

And this is where Pasha is amazing. Because this is what he. You know, he's very, very in tune and self aware, and I really appreciate that.

[Danielle Fishel]

He really is. Danny calls him Buddha and I'm. Yeah, he's real. He really is hurt.

[Cheryl Burke]

Last night.

[Danielle Fishel]

Not last night, but this week, he was. He was in a little bit of pain.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay. Because it looked like a little bit. He was wincing last night during your remarks.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we. We both are really sure.

[Cheryl Burke]

Let me tell you, this is the competition. This is. If this is in the comp, like where you are right now is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Where it's exhausted. It's like, okay, wait, I'm feeling it. But honestly, after this week, it's gonna go by so fast, so. And just really take. Just enjoy this process. Maybe. Well, maybe not next week. You might have to feel like this for two weeks. Okay. But after, I promise. God, I hope I'm still around the two dances. Yeah, you will be.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

But again, don't worry about that.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. It's nothing to think about.

[Cheryl Burke]

Exactly. You're not in control of it anyway. Don't even worry.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Well, this. This year, we have really seen some hot topics throughout the season that have come up partially because there is such a whole new fan base to the show. And one of the hot topics is the dichotomy between those who have dance experience and those who do not. I would love to hear your opinion since you started so early in the show when. I feel like, correct me if I'm wrong, very early on, one of the hooks of the show was that people were supposed to not have dance experience when they came onto the show, but since then, it's evolved over time. What is your opinion on previous dance experience coming into Dancing with the Stars?

[Cheryl Burke]

I don't. I believe every season there's always a dancer. There's always. This is nothing new as far as dance experience goes. It doesn't necessarily work in your favor. Like, if you've actually watched the show, I mean, I can name tons of people who should have won because this is also not purely a dance competition, obviously.

[Danielle Fishel]

Obviously not. Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

So. And if that was the case, the show maybe would have not continued on if the public had no say in. In the votes. Right. Like, this is engaging. This is an engaging show, and we must work together or not. Like, you know, you have an opinion, you can vote. You guys are at, what, 100 million votes? That's insanity. Crazy is the voting system. I don't know if you would know, but is it different because, like, you have 10. You can vote 10 times no matter what, or only once per phone line.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, you can vote 20 times per. So 20. 20 times. 10 on the Internet, 10 via text, and for as many couples as you want.

[Cheryl Burke]

So I could vote, like, let's say I did 10 for you last night. I can also do 10 for.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. Correct. And then you could go on your computer and you could vote 10 for Dylan and 10 for me on.

[Cheryl Burke]

On your American Idol from back in the day.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. So that's where it's like, you know, 50 million votes in one night.

[Cheryl Burke]

I was like, what?

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. It's not 50 million people or. Yeah, it's.

[Cheryl Burke]

It. It. It's okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. That's one of the reasons it's able to be so high.

[Cheryl Burke]

Like, holy 100 million people. You guys are killing it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. The ratings are good, but they're not that great.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah, but they've always wanted this younger demographic, and now they're getting it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I think social media had a lot to do with that, for sure.

[Cheryl Burke]

Absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

I also. I'm a. I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. So you had Emmett Smith, and with Emmett Smith, Throwing all the theories about the fact that, you know, Drew Lachey won because he was musical or had boy band experience or throwing that right out the window.

[Cheryl Burke]

I mean, okay, here's a perfect example. Mario Lopez. Hello. We beat him. Like, what? It's not a dance competition because Mario was a better dancer. Like, let's just be real.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Cheryl Burke]

But it is.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's such a. It is. Again, those things you can't control. You can't control how you are perceived by others. And.

[Cheryl Burke]

No, but you know, what you can do is you understand why people rallied behind people is because, like, psychologically.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

You see. You want to see struggle.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Yeah. Like.

[Cheryl Burke]

Or else there's. Why would anyone root for you? Because there's no if. There's not ever any struggle. So if they don't show in your package, it's your job to show it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

On your social media.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really smart. Really smart. I would like to also mention your third season on the show is no slouch after winning your first two seasons. You took Ian Ziering to fourth place. What is it about these competitors? Or Christian de la Fuenta? Ochocinko, Rob Kardashian, Cody Rigsby. What did they all have in common that helped. That helped you bring them to the place you brought them?

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, I. I don't think they've had. They have anything in common. I really don't. I. I don't think so. Because for ex, Christian de la Fuente broke his arm on live TV and dropped me on my head. And so that's. I mean, I don't know if you want to. That struggle right there. So people are going to rally behind that. Right. So we made the final. Jack Osborne, he's just a beautiful person. And that helps when I really like you as a person. You know, I think I am invested in a different way. It's not just a job for me. Right. So I think that's also important just because I can't fake it. I am really bad at it. Everything with Botox and all, you'll see it on my face, like, so I can't. I can't do it. I can't lie.

[Danielle Fishel]

I am exactly. Exactly the same way. I. If. If I'm thinking something, it's gonna be on my face. And it's. It is both a blessing and a curse.

[Cheryl Burke]

It's a curse.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's a curse. It is a curse. I mean, you're right. I consider it a blessing because I do pride myself on authenticity. And so, yes, you know, I guess it's just a part of that. It goes with it.

[Cheryl Burke]

But boy, not everyone can handle it, though.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, that's, that is true. For sure. You're not going to be everyone's favorite.

[Cheryl Burke]

No. But you know, I have to say, I just, I think maybe the common denominator back then at least. It's just that I. I only know ballroom. That's my expertise. I'm not going to pretend I do contemporary because I would beg to never get contemporary. I was like, you guys want to watch a skit? Do you want to watch snl? Then give me contemporary.

[Danielle Fishel]

Honestly, I kind of want to see an SNL skit. As a contemporary. I'm not gonna lie.

[Cheryl Burke]

I feel like my old contemporaries. It'll make, it'll just get you rolling.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you outside help?

[Cheryl Burke]

Of course. Even my ballroom dances, Even every, every week, I would make my partners go to another studio that I would rent at nighttime and work his to death. Absolutely. If you allowed it, I would do it now. The person who didn't allow it set boundaries. Speaking of, Emmett Smith was like, I'm giving you four hours, my friend. And that's it, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

He's like, look, whatever you can do in these four hours is what you get.

[Cheryl Burke]

It's a miracle. And we were flying back and forth to Dallas at the time, so that was hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. I have thought about that a couple of times because there were, there were a couple of people that were talking about flying back and forth and I was like, before you start the show, they tell you, we will work around your schedule. And so when you, when you don't know what you're in for, you think, oh, apparently I could have like a normal job and also do Dancing with the Stars.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Nope. No, not if you want to.

[Cheryl Burke]

Not if you want LA based.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, I'm not doing any of that. I gave up everything. I've abandoned my family. I had canceled all my work. I barely, I barely sleep. I, I 23 hours of my day is devoted to Dancing with the Stars. Listen, there's one thing I love to do, it's grind. So I'm fine I finding the time, but it's truly, I did. I laugh. I have laughed so many times at the thought where I was like, oh, well, I could be directing this week, but, oh, unfortunately the taping is also where.

[Cheryl Burke]

Are you kidding me? That's also my drug of choice, the Hustle.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, boy, that for sure is mine as well.

[Cheryl Burke]

Can I ask you what your dances are this week?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, we are doing a viennese Waltz.

[Cheryl Burke]

Ooh. Oh, you're gonna be fine. This is the easiest dance.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm so excited. And we're doing it to die with a smile by Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh. Aren't you guys doing team dances this week?

[Danielle Fishel]

We're doing a marathon dance. We have to do.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, that's the worst.

[Danielle Fishel]

We have to do Hustle. Hustle and jive.

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[Cheryl Burke]

How?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, no, sorry. Hustle and Lindy Hop.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, okay, that makes more sense.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hustle and Lindy Hop.

[Cheryl Burke]

I'm like, how are they feeding the music?

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. So, yeah, so the first. The first two minutes is Hustle, where there's going to be nine of us on the grid, and then they're going to get rid of five, and then there will be four people.

[Cheryl Burke]

Watch your mouth. Like, literally watch it. There's lifts involved and everything in Hustle. Oh, yeah. There's lifts in Lindy and Hustle. And you guys are all sharing the floor for the first time. So this is where you. For the women celebrities, trust your partners, because you don't want to get knocked in the mouth, quite literally.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. Well, also, I just want to, like.

[Cheryl Burke]

You know, just savor your energy. Right? Like, don't go, wham, bam, thank you, ma'. Am. And then you're like. So it's stamina. It's really about that. Yeah. I mean, can last the longest.

[Danielle Fishel]

And that doing a minute and a half long dance at the end of it, your mouth.

[Cheryl Burke]

It's only a minute and a half.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, no, the normal dances, like, right now, like, last night was a minute and a half, and at the end of a minute and a half, I can't breathe.

[Cheryl Burke]

Breathe.

[Danielle Fishel]

I have no fluid in my mouth at all. It's like, where did all the saliva go? I can't.

[Cheryl Burke]

But you have Viennese Waltz. You have Viennese Walt. You're good. You're good.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. This week's gonna be this week's three steps.

[Cheryl Burke]

There's only three steps maximum.

[Danielle Fishel]

And we've got, like, We've got some cool. Some cool things we want to do, some cool tricks, and we have a. We've been really working on backstory. Like, we've got a great backstory, which the only way anyone's gonna understand the backstory is if we set it up in our package. So tomorrow or tonight is our master interview. So we've talked about how we're gonna set it up so that people understand what the story is when they.

[Cheryl Burke]

All I can say is transitions are key. More important than anything else.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Transitions are for specifically this dance.

[Cheryl Burke]

For this dance specifically, yes. But also for every dance moving forward. Just. Just as much attention you put to the tricks in the flash. Yeah, you'll get there. It's never about that. It's about how you get out and get in.

[Danielle Fishel]

In. Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

You know, in the trick. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I thought that was a really good note. That was like the first thing John M. Chu said last night while judging, and he was like, the transitions. And I was like, ooh, the devil in the detail.

[Cheryl Burke]

And that's what we mean, the details in the transitions. It's never about the actual ta da at the. You know what I mean? Like, no one cares about that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love this advice.

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[Danielle Fishel]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Excludes Massachusetts.

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[Danielle Fishel]

The word stacked has been thrown around non stop this year. Have you been impressed by this season's contestants? Compared to.

[Cheryl Burke]

Absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay, yes.

[Cheryl Burke]

Look, I believe that there is a beautiful mix, right. Of people with. Yes. Dance experience. But also imagine if no one had dance experience. Okay. Especially going into a seasoned show. This show is. It's a machine and we need that. Like, we need the mix. Now for any new fans thinking that people pick their music like Mark Ballas does not pick his music, you know, and it is what it is. There is no favoritism, believe me.

[LEGO/Star Wars Advertiser]

Okay, yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Like, if anyone knows, it's me. Like, it's just. It's not. It may look like that, but that's all in your head. This is not happening. And believe me, standards, in practice, the show wouldn't go on for as long as it's been going on if there was favoritism. Yeah, like that makes no sense.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. When I interviewed Ezra Sosa, he was saying. And I thought it was a really great way of thinking about it for these newer fans.

[Cheryl Burke]

It.

[Danielle Fishel]

If something feels like favoritism, it might be that the pro, because of all of the experience that they have, is using all of the tools in their tool belt in a better way than another pro might be. That is not unfair. That's not favoritism. It's experience.

[Cheryl Burke]

You can't even manipulate the music department. Like, you can't. Like it just so happens that they haven't Done this dance to this song that everyone loves. Like, it's just a coincidence. It really is.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, but like, for example, with Mark last night in popular. Mark, having. Being a musician, was able to sit with the music department.

[Cheryl Burke]

But everyone can do that, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. That's my point.

[Cheryl Burke]

But he.

[Danielle Fishel]

He knows how to do it. I'm not saying it's favorite. I'm saying that's a tool in his tool belt as a musician and a dancer to say, here's how I think this would sound the greatest. And if someone else doesn't have that ability, that's not unfair. That's. Why should Mark not use his skill to help make his dance come alive? There's. That's creative.

[Cheryl Burke]

And even if you don't, like, I have. I mean, I played. I was forced to play the piano when I was younger, but that's as far as it goes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Cheryl Burke]

I mean, you could still work with the orchestra, the band. I mean, they actually want that now. It's about. I think some of the maybe newer dancers might just be a little shy and that's okay. Like to ask, you know, you know, you don't want to. I just know that, like, everyone's, like, on their best behavior too, and we don't want to, like, stir any.

[Danielle Fishel]

Everyone wants to be team players, of course.

[Cheryl Burke]

And I think that it'll, you know, it'll happen like, as you experience the show and, you know, as the pros come back, like, it's. You can't take the experience away from somebody, though. And that's the thing we even know. I even know what's in their storage as far as props go. So, like, I'm like, okay, wait, we can use this from storage.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's my point is that you having a wealth of knowledge and experience and being and knowing that you can ask for it is not an unfair advantage. It just ask, what's the worst that could happen?

[Cheryl Burke]

They say no.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely. Another very hot topic this year is online discourse. We have entered an era where the thin line between being a big tell me about and engaging in toxic discourse has toxic never been thinner. Yeah. What have been your thoughts? Watching along as the show hits new social media milestones, both good and bad.

[Cheryl Burke]

And reading the comments, I mean, also just personally. Right. I've noticed that it's been on a whole nother level now. I remember back in 2006, we weren't dealing with social media. We were dealing with message boards. They were just as cruel, actually. Okay. My mother would send me them. I'm like, first of all, don't do that. That one.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thanks.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah, let's just keep that to yourself. Thank you. But it is nasty. You know, the way that people get dehumanized and the way people believe that they are allowed to do that to others.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Cheryl Burke]

What kills me is women doing this to other women.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Cheryl Burke]

You know, and that. And if my platform turns into me trying to knock some sense into people and talking about how we need to support each other rather than go against each other, and I sound like a broken record. So be it. Because not everybody will stick up for themselves in that sense. And it's a real thing. It's a real thing. And whether you want to call it bullying or just complete just. It's shocking. It is shocking. And I can't even block enough people. It's just too many of them now. There's too many. And so that's what's sad is that the younger generation, they're watching this. Of course they're watching. And. But, you know, like, you can't control everything. But, you know, I will. Will continue to control what I can, which is my social media platform. I mean, get off my platform. First of all, if you're gonna. If you're so, you know, and the way that they come at the show as well, it's like, you know, look, I appreciate the passion behind these tick tockers.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Make. And. And you can see their engagement goes up. So they can see their engagement goes up when they talk about it. And they're gonna have controversial opinions now, whether or not they believe it or whether or not they're feeding into the engagement. And the numbers is a whole nother their conversation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally.

[Cheryl Burke]

These people are not experts. No, they're not. They're just saying something very controversial. They have a great hook in their video, and people are watching from beginning to end.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

And that's about it. That's what you can take from it, because you can't take anything unless this person's a professional ballroom dancer. It's nonsense. It's nonsense.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, I have a very good friend who is also a very public figure, and one of the things he's talked about and has. Has actually done in the past is when someone leaves a really nasty comment or sends a really nasty DM replying. Wow, that really hurt my feelings. That was. That was hard for me to read. And, yeah, I'm. I don't know if that's what you wanted me to feel, but it really was very tough for me to read. And every Single time, the response is, I didn't think you would even see this. I didn't know. I'm so sorry. I am actually a big fan. Every time.

[Cheryl Burke]

They just want to be seen.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it's really, you know, in this, in this world of feeling like social media has made us more connected, I think we are more isolated and alone than we've ever been. And I think a large majority of those really nasty comments are cries for.

[Cheryl Burke]

Cries for help, 100%. And in a negative, nasty way, they're finding community within that. And like, look, there's also the beautiful side of social media.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right.

[Cheryl Burke]

There's also community we can get. I mean, I used to be so good at stopping myself from. I never scrolled ever in my life. So, like, until recently, until. And then, you know, obviously you need to respond to people and it's. It's harder to. I mean, you can put this care content thing up. Like, I. TikTok was bad now Instagram is so bad right now and. Oh yeah, for me it is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

I. And I actually stopped posting on TikTok. I only post like once a week randomly. I used to do this date, like it was like multiple times a day. But I just don't trust. I don't feel safe there. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you have a social media team or is it just you?

[Cheryl Burke]

One person who takes care of my YouTube only.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

My editing, that is. I do everything else. But it's a full time job. I mean, obviously.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, it is a full time job. It's a full time job. And I was just wondering because I know you and I just have both talked about how authenticity is important to us, and yet I also understand that the reading of the comments is not good for our mental health. And yet it's impossible to get away from the idea that social media is now a part of our jobs. It's just.

[Cheryl Burke]

Isn't that crazy?

[Danielle Fishel]

It's crazy. And there's no avoiding.

[Cheryl Burke]

It's hard for the older generation who's commenting nasty as well to understand and wrap their head around it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

You find a job. I'm like, this is my job.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, I'm. Yeah, thank you. I'm doing it. I promise. I'm doing it.

[Cheryl Burke]

I know, I know it doesn't look like I'm really getting ready, but I am. Okay? So shut up. But just listen to what I'm saying. I want to know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Going back to Dancing with the Stars, I want to know, what were your thoughts on Wicked Night?

[Cheryl Burke]

I loved it. Yeah. I love John. I Thought John was a great addition, actually.

[Danielle Fishel]

I did too.

[Cheryl Burke]

I just. What do you love? What? Sorry, I hate to answer a question with a question, but I'm just curious. Do you. Have you found that. What's helpful for you guys as contestants standing there? What would you like to hear from the judges?

[Danielle Fishel]

I love to hear personally any sort of feedback that is not going to be something that's only attributable to that dance. I am never going to do that dance again.

[Cheryl Burke]

You're never doing it again.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm never going to do jive again ever, for as long as I live, God willing. And so if there's just like a note about something that's very jive specific, just skip that one because that's in my rearview mirror. I can't correct it. But like Bruno, during my jive did say that the retraction of my kicks and flicks are going to come into play. Play in other dances. And sure enough, it came into play in the Argentine tango.

[Cheryl Burke]

Oh, Argentine tango. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so it was like. It was something I thought of when I was thinking about my. My foot retraction during some of those moves. When Kim gave me the note about, you know, practicing by putting a pen in between my fingers to help me really. And I did. It was like both Pasha and I were like, that's a great idea. And so like, that's. That's really good. When I was really. I still struggle with my shoulders and some Kim gave someone else. Imagine you were carrying back bags of cement. That's what you.

[Cheryl Burke]

Yes. You want to feel like you're heavy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Kinds of very direct. That only in my opinion, someone who's been a pro who's done it themselves can give, you have taught, you know, you know what. And you don't necessarily know what's going to work for every person, but you have enough experience giving advice to different types of celebrities. You have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips for what money might be useful. That's why one of the reasons I think you're going to be such a fantastic addition to the judges chair.

[Cheryl Burke]

Thank you. You know, as I started the show very young, so I didn't have a lot of teaching experience and it was interesting I involved when you asked if I got help, my dance coach actually held my hand through this process for the first few years of learning just the language of trying to teach a pedestrian what ballroom technique is without using the word because words are just words. Like you can call it whatever the hell you want. Just do it. Execute it. Like we're just trying to get the execution going. Another tip for you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Instead of thinking of shoulders down.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

Think of your spine that goes. It doesn't stop here. Right. It stops here.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

And you know those balconies? Those balconies when you have V. Your nipples.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

You want to think towards the balcony this way. Still thinking of heavy luggage or cement. Right. Okay. And then also, if it's not nipples, but everything, like, notice I'm not just doing that. I'm going, I'm expanding. My. My rib cage is out. You want to not look up to the balconies. Don't do that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right.

[Cheryl Burke]

Then this happens. Then this happens with you. You don't want this to happen.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. You don't want a broken neck.

[Cheryl Burke]

Starts here.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Here.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love that. Okay. Top of the head, spine, and you.

[Cheryl Burke]

Can hold a little mini apple. This is what Len Goodman said he would say. Like, you see, get that little. Little mini apple. Grab it from the top shelf.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's here, right?

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah. So it's here. You just want to, like, you know, start holding your drinks like this. Like I do.

[Danielle Fishel]

The good news is I do. That has not been my problem remembering.

[Cheryl Burke]

No. You looked great last night. That was beautiful. But that's a different. That's different than.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's totally different. No. Well, we did a foxtrot trot, so I have. I had. When we did our. My second week with the foxtrot, I. I was that. That hand there. Thankfully, it feels very natural. I'm very. I'm very girly with my pinkies when.

[Cheryl Burke]

I'm, like, constantly still.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is so funny. Well, you have given me so many. I mean, my final question was if you had one piece of advice. But I can't even. You've given me so many incredible.

[Cheryl Burke]

That's not my advice. My advice. I want you to message up more. I want to see raw. Okay. I really do. I want it. I. Because I can forgive that. There's no perfection. There's no such thing as. What is perfect. There was no such thing. No, unfortunately, I thought there was, but there isn't. And you were like. This was like. You were in it. You were laser focused in it. Yes. I don't know what your music. What's your music again? For me, Walt, is it romantic or not romantic?

[Danielle Fishel]

Die with a smile. Lady Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay. Okay. So, I mean, are you. Does it make you feel like. Because, like, I want you to embody this music. You need to know this music inside and out. Like, you could literally start it from a random spot and you know exactly what you're doing. One and two. You just, like, you need to feel it because I need to see that. I need to see your emotion through motion.

[Danielle Fishel]

So, so good. And you're right because like certain dances I've had, every week, there's something a little different that helps me with that particular dance. Some weeks, it is all about knowing the counts, Knowing the count forward and backward, and pasha being able to say to me, we're going to take it from this. We're going to take it from the seven.

[Cheryl Burke]

Do you know how to count? That's impossible.

[Danielle Fishel]

I've learned in. I learned in week during our tango week. So the first week, one of the first things he said to me was, you're going to start counting this. And I was like, me. And he was like, I've been counting. Start paying it. If you're not. If you haven't been, Start paying attention. And then I was like, can we do it together? And then we would count the dance together. And by the time the day was over, I was dancing the dance and counting it solo from beginning to end. And so I was able to do that then with my cha cha. And last night, I was the most present I've ever felt in my body while dancing on the show. No counts.

[Cheryl Burke]

So this is what I was gonna say. But ballroom is between a man and a woman.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

In your case. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

A partnership where the man. In your case, and in anyone's case this season, a man leads, leads. The woman follows. Or it should look like this. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

You.

[Cheryl Burke]

The counts shouldn't. I don't think should be a priority. I. I just don't. I just don't. Now, do you need to know your. Yes. You must know your forwards and backwards. It's vital. But I think that because you have such a short amount of time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Burke]

You need to embody. You need to like this music. Whether you love it or hate it is irrelevant. Like, totally. I need to. I need to feel you. Girl.

[Danielle Fishel]

Girl, I love it. I love that advice.

[Cheryl Burke]

And don't fake it. Don't find something real in your life that can. That you can incorporate. Right. Like find that emotion.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, I. I lied. I. I have one more question for you. And maybe it's a two. Maybe it's a two parter.

[Cheryl Burke]

That's fine.

[Danielle Fishel]

We mentioned Mark ballas who's back on the dance floor this year. He's a master of the trade, as are you. Is there ever a possibility Cheryl Burke would come back to the Dance floor, as a person.

[Cheryl Burke]

Pro. I mean, you never say never.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Never say never.

[Cheryl Burke]

Is my body saying, yes, please, let's do this now? No.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Cheryl Burke]

I mean, I still have my body woman. Like, she comes here, and I don't live in LA anymore, so I live about a couple hours away, and she drives here. I mean, mind you, I pay her, but very well. I'm sure she's the only reason why I don't have hip replacements, because she gets into that. My scar tissue, it's pretty bad. It's from all the. The, you know, dancing. Not just on the show, but every.

[Danielle Fishel]

All the years.

[Cheryl Burke]

My whole life.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay, the second part of that question. If there was ever another All Star season, who do you think you'd choose?

[Cheryl Burke]

Jack Osborne or Rob Kardashian?

[Danielle Fishel]

Really?

[Cheryl Burke]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love it. I love it so much.

[Cheryl Burke]

I just love them as human beings.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Yeah. Such. That's the thing. You can't actually.

[Cheryl Burke]

Maybe Rob. Rob. Rob needs to get out of that. Wherever he is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Where that house?

[Cheryl Burke]

Where are you? Yeah, Kardashian, let's go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Come on out, Rob.

[Cheryl Burke]

He was so happy when he did the show, so. And I was so happy for him. So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. That's such a beautiful thing you guys are able to do for people. Truly the pros. I tell every one of them, you guys are really the stars. I mean, that. That is. That's the thing people don't know, like, the amount of patience and time and effort and just the amount of giving you have to do for the entire length of. Length of time that you're on the show. It is just. You're putting yourself on the back burner. You're making sure you're not the one who seems like the star of the dance. You have to figure out their limitations. You have to figure out what they're good at. You have to highlight that. You have to choreograph in the morning. You're up until late. Like, you're a therapist. Sometimes you're, you know, a physical therapist to be like, what's bothering you here? Here's my person. Have you done this? Like, the things you guys have to do and with a smile and while being microphoned and on camera. I don't know how. I really don't know how you guys.

[Cheryl Burke]

Do it, but it's so. It's so sweet of you. Thank you for noticing that. Because a lot of people don't even notice it.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, it is. It is. You are all truly remarkable people. And. And the. The percentage of people who are even remotely capable of. It is very tiny. And so you were a master at it. And thank you for your service and.

[Cheryl Burke]

For all of your years.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I cannot wait to see you in a judge's chair next week and to hear all of your thoughts. I know you're going to kill it. I'm so excited for you.

[Cheryl Burke]

Thank you. I'm just nervous. I don't know if I can just say it in 10 seconds, but, hey, we're gonna try to talk soundbites starting now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, you know what? I know you're capable of it. You just did a fantastic interview with me. And you are great on your own podcasts. You're great on social media. You're. You're wonderful. So we are lucky to have you Next week. I'm looking forward to.

[Cheryl Burke]

Thank you. And, girl, you got this. One step. Just one little step. One little step.

[Danielle Fishel]

One little step at a time. And next week, I just. I'm gonna make sure you feel it. That's my goal.

[Cheryl Burke]

I want you to feel it. Feel it from my gut.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna make you feel it. I promise. I promise. I'm gonna think about it all week. Thank you so much, Cheryl.

[Cheryl Burke]

Tell Pasha I say hello.

[Danielle Fishel]

I most certainly will.

[Cheryl Burke]

Okay. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Danielle with the Stars produced and hosted by Danielle executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer, editor and engineer, Tara Suedboksh. Theme song by Justin Segal. Follow us on Instagram at daniellewithstars and vote for me.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Danielle Fishel]

What kind of man would let this.

[Cheryl Burke]

Happen to his family?

[Doug (Liberty Mutual spokesperson)]

Inspired by shocking actual events, I'M working.

[Cheryl Burke]

On a story about the Murdochs. Their abuses of power are playing out in real time.

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[Cheryl Burke]

Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers.

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Terms apply.

[Doug (Liberty Mutual spokesperson)]

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[Cheryl Burke]

This is an I Heart podcast.