Dancing with…Mandy Moore

Summary

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Pod Meets World (iHeartPodcasts)

Episode: Dancing with…Mandy Moore
Air Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Danielle Fishel
Guest: Mandy Moore (Emmy-winning choreographer: "Dancing With the Stars," "So You Think You Can Dance," "La La Land," Taylor Swift Eras Tour)

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Danielle Fishel sits down with world-renowned choreographer Mandy Moore for a dynamic conversation about the art and industry of dance—especially through the lens of "Dancing With the Stars." Danielle, now a contestant on the show's 34th season, taps into Mandy’s decades of expertise, discussing everything from the craft of choreography and the culture of the show to preparing for live television and the value of vulnerability for performers. The conversation is full of behind-the-scenes stories, practical advice, and contagious enthusiasm for dance and creativity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mandy Moore’s Journey to Choreography

• Starting Out (05:19–11:21)
  • Mandy grew up in Colorado, beginning dance at a small local studio which later moved to Utah and became a hub for DWTS professionals.
  • She arrived in L.A. at 18 with little industry knowledge:
    "I drove out in my Wrangler with a dollar in my pocket. Yeah, I’m gonna make it." (09:05, Mandy)
  • Her big break came working as an assistant to Carrie Ann Inaba—who transitioned from dancer to reality TV judge and took Mandy along for the ride through connections on shows like “American Idol” and “So You Think You Can Dance.”
  • “If I hadn’t have been with her, I wouldn’t be in the rooms. Unbelievable.” (10:53, Mandy)
• Passion for Choreography Over Performing (12:40–14:14)
  • Mandy realized she was more fulfilled by teaching, creating, and directing than performing on camera.
  • “I genuinely love choreography more than being in front of the camera. I was always paying more attention to what the crew was doing!” (12:40, Mandy)

The Culture of "Dancing With the Stars"

• Collaboration with Pros (04:59–06:28)
  • Mandy describes the mutual trust and creative freedom between choreographers and pro dancers, underscoring a family-like bond.
  • “I just became this conductor of movement for them…I’m just here to make you look great.” (06:02 & 06:28, Mandy)
• Respect for Dancers (14:14–16:13)
  • Discussion on how dancers are often treated like replaceable commodities in the industry—but not on DWTS.
  • “Man, these people are putting out their physicality and their bodies for us…but the least we can do is like, respect them and make sure that they're good.” (14:14, Mandy)
  • Danielle agrees: “On Dancing with the Stars, at least in my experience, everybody is treated very well.” (14:46, Danielle)

Attributes of a Good Student/Performer

• Vulnerability (16:28–17:36)
  • Mandy stresses vulnerability as critical for learning and growing in dance.
  • “It is vulnerable to be an open enough vessel to accept information about something that you most likely are not good at.” (16:54, Mandy)
  • Danielle shares her reliance on pro Pasha for trust, illustrating the importance of letting go of perfectionism.
  • “I started just saying trust the Pasha. Not the process—the Pasha.” (17:37, Danielle)
• Head and Heart Balance (19:09–20:52)
  • Effective students balance intellectual understanding with expressive openness.
  • “It starts with head…and then you get all a hot mess again. And then before you know it, it’s like those little interactions get smaller and smaller, and you move from both your head and your heart.” (19:09, Mandy)

Dance as Performance & Competition

• Judging and Scoring (24:13–27:39)
  • Danielle and Mandy debate the challenges of scoring, audience perceptions, and how competitive DWTS currently feels.
  • Mandy notes, “You just never know from year to year, season to season, like who’s gonna pop, who's gonna actually, like, in the 11th hour, do something amazing...” (24:29, Mandy)
  • Danielle sympathizes with judges: “Anytime someone gives criticism—even if it’s earned—it’s being said to somebody's fave, and they get booed.” (26:15, Danielle)
• Celebrity Dance Experience: Does It Matter? (31:01–32:58)
  • Mandy believes prior dance experience is only marginally advantageous, explaining fundamental differences in ballroom/Latin technique and audience appreciation of growth.
  • “Honestly, it's almost harder for people that have pre-existing ideas about what dance is…The show can be for anyone.” (31:10 & 31:37, Mandy)
• Evolving Traditions & Breaking Frame (33:07–35:51)
  • Discussion of tradition vs. innovation—like adding viral/TikTok moments or breaking strict dance “frames”.
  • “If you don’t respect tradition but allow it to evolve, it will die a death.” (33:33, Mandy)
  • Mandy supports some rule-bending when it’s not disrespectful: “Sometimes in life you should break a rule.” (35:51, Mandy)

Advice & Coaching for Danielle

• Going Bolder (36:10–40:06)
  • Mandy tells Danielle to take bigger, bolder performance risks as the competition heats up.
  • “Starting in week three and four, you have to make bigger choices—in your performance, in your character.” (36:29, Mandy)
  • She cautions against subtlety: “Don’t you dare be subtle on the ballroom floor.” (37:39, Danielle, echoing Mandy)
  • “The camera really takes away a good 20 to 30 percent of what you’re doing…It looks like you’re not even trying.” (39:04, Mandy)

Success on "Dancing With the Stars"

• What Makes a Mirror Ball Winner? (40:04–41:47)
  • Mandy points to authenticity and letting the audience see the journey—failures and successes—as the most important commonality among winners.
  • “They allow the audience to see them fail…They are in the moment completely.” (40:24, Mandy)
• Iconic Dance Moments (42:11–44:44)
  • Mandy highlights the ambitious one-take drone opener at Griffith Observatory as a favorite choreographic feat and the emotional live TV tribute to Len Goodman as encapsulating the spirit of the show.
  • “Everybody came together to make the very best moments…It was lit right. It was shot right. It was one of those things." (59:11, Mandy)

Life on the DWTS Tour

• Behind the Tour (55:28–58:10)
  • Mandy has been lead director of the tour for several years, aiming to design routines and shows that let the pros shine and feature touring contestants.
  • “We are bringing this television show that they know and love right to their back door. And it's also an amazing moment for these pros to dance their face off.” (55:35, Mandy)
  • Danielle gushes over pros’ adaptability and resilience: “The real stars of this show are these pros. They are incredible.” (56:20, Danielle)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting out in L.A.:
  "I drove out in my Wrangler with a dollar in my pocket. Yeah, I’m gonna make it."
  —Mandy Moore, 09:05

• On succeeding as a dancer:
  "It is vulnerable to be an open enough vessel to accept information about something you most likely are not good at."
  —Mandy Moore, 16:54

• On authenticity and the audience:
  "If you're very manicured and very produced in your own way of presenting yourself, the audience somehow senses it."
  —Mandy Moore, 41:24

• On bold choices:
  "Go big or go home. Get in there."
  —Mandy Moore, 37:20

• On what’s special about DWTS:
  "It’s a machine, and it’s a well-oiled machine, and it’s somehow not cold... How are you a machine that is also a jacuzzi?"
  —Danielle Fishel, 59:53

• Advice for Danielle’s dancing:
  "Continue to push yourself to go bigger and bolder. Be more bold. Because now you're going into week three and week four...you have to make bigger choices—in your performance, more vulnerability, more emotion, more character."
  —Mandy Moore, 36:10–36:32

• On the show’s community:
  "These are my cats. They're like my squad, you know? So to get to make with them is so fun."
  —Mandy Moore, 57:59

• On respecting tradition while innovating:
  "If you don’t respect tradition but allow it to evolve, it will die a death."
  —Mandy Moore, 33:33

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:19] Mandy’s career beginnings and relationship with Carrie Ann Inaba
• [12:40] Discovering her love for teaching and choreography
• [14:14] Dancer treatment and production culture on DWTS
• [16:28] Vulnerability and qualities of a good student
• [24:13] This season’s competitiveness and the challenge of scoring
• [31:01] Dance experience and show fairness discussion
• [33:07] Breaking frame, tradition vs. viral moments
• [36:10] Mandy’s advice: go bigger and be bolder starting week 3
• [40:04] Qualities of Mirror Ball champions
• [42:11] Favorite choreographed moments
• [55:28] DWTS tour experiences and letting the pros shine
• [58:10] The emotional essence of the show

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Conclusion

This episode offers an engaging and enlightening deep-dive into the world of live dance performance, reality TV, and creative collaboration. Mandy Moore’s candor, warmth, and wisdom shine through, offering listeners both the starry magic and the real-deal hard work that go into "Dancing with the Stars." Danielle’s rookie contestant perspective and thoughtful questions create a dynamic, relatable conversation that both dance fans and general listeners can enjoy.

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Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Mandy Moore]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Welcome to Danielle with the Stars. I am Danielle Fishel, a TV director, a podcaster forever Topanga, and a mom of two. But currently, as I speak, I am competing as A ballroom dancer on the 34th season of Dancing with the Stars. And in the process of cutting rugs and tearing tendons, I am recording a podcast chronicling my earnest and difficult journey to win a Len Goodman mirrorball trophy. Each week on this podcast, I am soaking up every little thing I can about my new profession. I'm taking in every tip, trick and story the pros and past contestants are willing to share with me. And today, I will be squeezing every last ounce of expertise out of my guest. An absolute legend in the world of dance and choreography, she made her mark on so youo Think youk Can Dance and a little network experiment you may have heard of called Dancing with the Stars. She brought her vision to the Oscar winning movie La La Land and even helped shape Taylor Swift's record breaking Eras tour. Oh, no big deal. She's created for the Oscars, the Golden Globes, the Grammys, the Emmys, which have nominated her eight times and given her three. She is an undeniable force in the industry. And now she's a guest on Danielle with the Stars. So please say hello to superstar choreographer Mandy Moore.

[Mandy Moore]

Like, that was literally the best intro ever. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Mandy Moore]

Of course.

[Danielle Fishel]

You are truly a legend.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, people say that. It is so weird when people say that. I'm like, wait, I think I'm just doing the best I can. No, you know, white knuckling most of the time.

[Danielle Fishel]

So you know how you know you're really special is when. When other very special people, like every single pro on Dancing with the Stars says, that is a person who knows what they're doing. That's a person we love to work with. Like, they work with a lot of different choreographers. No one has anything to say about you other than, oh, she's the best. She's the best of the best.

[Mandy Moore]

Love them. They're like my family. Yeah, it's weird. You know, I've been on the show a long time and I feel like I grew with them. And so they really, truly, I consider most of them my family.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, you can tell that amongst all of you, there's a trust. There's like a. You don't have to over produce or over nitpick. You can give them guidance and then let them have creative freedom. And if something's not working, you collaborate together to fix it. Like you can. You can see that. And that's always the best kind of creative environment to be in 1,000%.

[Mandy Moore]

And, you know, I think I'm sure We're probably gonna get into it, but let's just get into it, you know, like, I started on that show. I had never done a step a ballroom in my life, and it was a really weird, like, experiment for me. I mean, I'd been. I worked on television, so I'd choreographed on television, but the actual art of ballroom dance and Latin dance, it is not my thing. I grew up tap dancing, jazz, ballet, million other styles, but hadn't done ballroom. And when I got on the show, I was like, are you sure you want me to choreograph? Because I think in my mind, I thought, oh, well, if I don't know exactly all the steps, I can't make it. But it was a really amazing process because that's where I started to learn how to collaborate, like you were just saying, with the pros, because they're choreographers and artists in their own rights.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally.

[Mandy Moore]

And so I just kind of became this conductor of movement for them, and I would create with them and then basically tell them, like, you guys look crazy. You need to be better.

[Danielle Fishel]

This looks insane.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And they would probably all tell you that, like, I would. You know, I used to do this thing where I would, like, screenshot their wides, and I would say, you look nuts here. You look nuts here. You look nuts here. And they really started to. I think that's where that trust started to happen, because it was like, I'm just here to make you look great.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly.

[Mandy Moore]

And then they'd be like, oh, we do look good on that part now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, thank you for telling. I know. I. As a director, I have had a couple opportunities where there will be a scene with a beautiful woman, and she's supposed to be sick on the couch, and so she's relaxing on the couch. And I'll just take a screenshot of the camera and I'll come in. I'll be like, you're going to want to lift your chin a little bit. I'm just going to show you right here. And then they'll be like, thanks, girl.

[Mandy Moore]

Thanks, girl. Always. You got to have their back. Yes, that's exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Now you know we got each other's back.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who is the first professional dancer you remember seeing as a kid? Like, that made you go, oh, wow, I want to do that.

[Mandy Moore]

That's a good question. I mean, I'm a kid of the 80s, so I grew up on MTV and all of the 80s films, so the ones that probably stick out the most to me are something like a. Like a flash dance or Dirty Dancing or John Travolta in Not Saturday Night Fever, Staying Alive, the jazz movie.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, the jazz one. I like that.

[Mandy Moore]

But I was also a kid who grew up on MGM musicals. So I would say, like most people, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, like, those were kind of my initial. When I think back to being a kid and looking at dance on, you know, on the television screen, that's who I remember.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow. Okay, great. I know you grew up in Colorado, and I wondered, have you ever felt bullied because you're not from Utah.

[Mandy Moore]

Right. Okay, this is a good story. I don't know if you know this.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't.

[Mandy Moore]

So my dance teacher, Kim Del Grosso, had a small studio in Colorado, the mountains of Colorado. I grew up dancing with Kim. When I was in middle school, she sold the studio and moved to Utah and open up what is known as Center Stage Dance Studio, which is Julianne, Derek, Whitney, Lindsay, Jenna. Like, all of them. So it's also so weird that, like, I have this crazy connection to all these people that I know and love. That we have the same dance teacher.

[Danielle Fishel]

Same dance teacher, just in two different states, Colorado and Utah.

[Mandy Moore]

Totally, totally.

[Danielle Fishel]

So you're completely connected. You're all still part of that same family. There are so many aspiring dancers out there who have immense talent and are trying to make it. Who. And what was the big break that got. That helped you get into the right rooms?

[Mandy Moore]

Let's see. This will be another good story, I guess. Carrie Annaba.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really?

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. So I moved out here at 18, you know, to be a dancer from the mountains of Colorado. I didn't know anything about anything. I knew nothing about the business.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you have family here at all?

[Mandy Moore]

No, I had my. My family had a friend here, and I stayed on his couch for, like, three weeks when I got here. I mean, it was one of those totally, like, cliche stories where it was like I drove out in my wrang.

[Danielle Fishel]

With a dollar in my pocket. Yeah, I'm gonna make it.

[Mandy Moore]

I'm gonna be a star, 1,000%. And, you know, of course you get here and you're like, whoa, this is a whole thing here, you know?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

But I ended up kind of kind of starting to train at the studio called Edge Performing Arts Center. I don't know if you ever heard of it, but. So I. That was kind of like my home base, basically. And through training there, I started to take classes with Carrie Ann. She had just come off of tour with Madonna. And one of my teachers, Alex Magno, she. She took a lot of class With. And so Carrie Anne and I just kind of started always being bookends. Whenever he would do pieces or something, like, he'd always put me on one side hurt. She would be my bookend. And so we just became friends. And then she started to transition into choreography and needed an assistant. And this is at the start of reality television. So this is like, who Wants to Marry a Multimillionaire? America's Sexiest Bachelor? Like some classic, classic goodies.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

All real good ones. Yeah. And so I would be her assistant. And then, lo and behold, she started getting to know more people. We ended up being on a show called All American Girl where Conrad, who's the producer.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Conrad Green.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And Nigel Lythgoe were co producers. And so we met them and then Nigel went over to American Idol and we. Carrie Ann and I ended up going to American Idol, and then she ended up getting. This is a very. I'm almost finished. Then Nigel went and started so youo Think youk Can Dance and had asked Carrie Ann to come over to so youo Think youk Can Dance. Dancing with the Stars was also starting with Conrad. And Carrie Anne, at a very crazy moment, decided to go to Dancing with the Stars because she was gonna be a judge on this brand new ballroom dancing show. And then she ended up being this judge. And then I kind of started taking over at American Idol. So, like, I really. And then the rest is kind of history from there. But I credit her with so much of my success because she really, like, if I hadn't have been with her, I wouldn't be in the rooms. Unbelievable.

[Danielle Fishel]

Unbelievable. What a great story. Yeah. And it's so nice, too, that it was like, I love every time, no offense to men, I love every time it's another woman. That. That was. That was like, listen, I see something in you. I want you with me. Let's do this together. Be my assistant. Learn from me. Help me. And then when the time came, it was like, you're ready to launch. Yes. And you got to just fly on your own.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And that's huge to like, be supporting other people like that. And I learned so much about the business from her. Like seeing her navigate these rooms full of a lot of men a lot of the times. And, like, being in a place where, like, reality television and the kinds of things we were doing on television, it wasn't really happening. So she was kind of also making up things as we were going, you know? But I just loved understanding her process, understanding how she would run the department, what meetings what she would say in meetings, what she didn't say in meetings. You know, where I was just a young kid with wanting to, you know, make up dance steps. And I learned that it was so much more than that, obviously.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. It's a real business. You have to be a businesswoman.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. When you're heading a department, it's not about your dance steps.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

It's about all the other things. And then it's still about your dance steps at the end of the day.

[Danielle Fishel]

So when you moved here and you were 18 with a dollar in your pocket at that time, right before the reality tv, boom, what was on your vision board? What was the dream? What did you. What. What was your goal of coming here?

[Mandy Moore]

I mean, I was definitely going to dance for Janet for sure. I was going to go on tour with Janet and I was definitely going to go on Ms. Jackson if you're nasty. And then I was for sure going to go on tour with Madonna.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

Neither one of those things happened. But, you know, now that I look back, I'm like, yeah. I'm like, you know, I was never probably going to be that person that was going to be on tour with those people. I definitely got to the end of a lot of those auditions, but I was like, I'm not your girl, I don't think.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

You know, so thankfully, though, like, I also learned in that time that I was like, I really love teaching and creating. I love choreography. I actually love it more than being in front of the camera. And that was like a really, like, interesting thing to kind of learn along the way that, like, you know, I'd be in. In on film sets, you know, dancing. I'd just be like, I didn't care about it. I wanted. I was looking over at Video Village.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And I was like, man, that ad is cool. Like, what's this call sheet? I'm like, who's that person over there? You know? And I was way more interested in that than I was about getting warmed up at midnight to do some, like, big dancing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Yeah, there it is. Interesting how being creative, but a creative in front of the camera and a creative behind the camera, what different parts of your brain you have to use. I know for me, having made the transition from an actor to a director, being an actor, it's like everything's about all the forward facing stuff. I have to be in hair and makeup all the time. I have to physically be taking care of myself at all times. If I have a pimple, it could be disastrous. I have to have Constantly disaster. If I have to have something to wear, I need to be hair and makeup ready. I need to have a glam team. That requires a lot of time. I have to be good at public speaking and doing all of those things. And then as the director, I'm like, nobody gives a crap about me, but I still get to have all the creative juices going and work with other people, get to their. Their performances out of them. So it is interesting how you're like, oh, I. I still get to be creative. It's just a little different.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah, it's a totally different. It's almost like right brain, left brain in some weird way. Even though both are. You're right, both are created. It's just a very different kind of like, I don't know what. What's expected of you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

You know, and like, I mean, as a dancer, it might be slightly different as an actor, but as a dancer on camera, it's like, man, you're just like herded like cattle. It's just, you know, and I really try to make a thing, obviously when I'm on set to not have that happen for dancers too, that, like, no one should be treated like cattle. But, you know, it's like, man, these people are putting out their physicality and their bodies for us to like, do this amazing thing that people love, which is dance, you know, but, like, the least we can do is like, respect them and make sure that they're good and give them a place to warm up and give them water and like all the things just very basic, just basics now.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I wouldn't know any of that because on Dancing with the Stars, at least in my experience, everybody is treated. Yes. Very well.

[Mandy Moore]

That's why that show's amazing.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, it is from top to bottom, I have felt supported, listened to, understood, respected. They're absolutely. With scheduling stuff, you know, I'm super type A, so, like, they send me a schedule. They're like, the car will pick you up at 6:45. I'm like, I think this car should pick me up at 6:30, because I want to be there at 7:00am instead of 7:15, because I want 15 extra minutes of warming up. And they're like, sure, weirdo, whatever you want. Like, so I. But you're right. Now that I'm thinking about it in other aspects of my life, I would not have thought about the fact that dancers were probably not treated very well.

[Mandy Moore]

Not all the time. You know, the protections aren't always there. And I think it gets better. And I Think now in culture, just in general, maybe people are hoping to understand and be, you know, let people be heard and seen. Like, I do think it's getting better, but, you know, it's. The industry moves so fast. You know this. And, like, everybody's in and out in two seconds, and it's money, money, money, money. And, you know, and unfortunately, that can start. You don't always treat people like humans when that happens.

[Danielle Fishel]

And sometimes also, the person making the schedule is not aware of what a dancer needs.

[Mandy Moore]

Correct.

[Danielle Fishel]

So the person's like, all right, we'll bring these dancers in at 11. We'll have them on the floor at 1102. And it's like, no, no. They're gonna need. They're bought. They're. They physically need to warm up. They need to drink something.

[Mandy Moore]

Like.

[Danielle Fishel]

So, yeah. Sometimes it's just. We need to have people who understand.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And have. Can represent for each group of people to be involved in the planning of the days.

[Mandy Moore]

1000%. This is why you're a great producer, director. Yes. You understand.

[Danielle Fishel]

I understand it. Okay. Here's my transition to start asking about my own dances.

[Mandy Moore]

Can't wait. Okay. Go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Weaseling my way into getting advice from one of the goats. What do you think makes a good student of dance?

[Mandy Moore]

Ooh, vulnerability.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

I love that that's your first thing. Yes. Because it is vulnerable to. To be an open enough vessel to accept information about something that you most likely are not good at.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

Round one.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

Because I'm sure what. You guys had a tango week one. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

And you.

[Mandy Moore]

Cha cha.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And, you know, I don't know how you feel, but again, after saying, like, I don't do Latin and ballroom, like, when these guys. And of course, over the years, they've taught me things, but it is hard. The coordination is really hard, and the weight change is hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And as someone who understands their body, who understands how to put themselves in front of the camera, you have to be vulnerable to know that you are going to look really bad and be really bad at first.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct.

[Mandy Moore]

And then you have to trust that you have an amazing coach, which Posh is, like, the best. Really incredible. I mean, he's not only, like, a fantastic human, but he's also a really, really great coach and dancer and choreographer.

[Danielle Fishel]

He really is.

[Mandy Moore]

So you're in great hands.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. I've known that since moment one. I've been, oh, I can. I started just saying trust the Pasha because it was. Trust the process. At first it was. And. And then it was like, oh, it's not just. It's not even about the process. It's about just totally trusting him. And, like, you know, the night before my cha cha, we decided to speed it up.

[Mandy Moore]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Literally, after doing dress rehearsal. And then we were like, I think we need it. We need. We can do it faster now. And that was Monday night. After Saturday, me being nowhere near ready for the dance, Saturday night being like, I'm. I'm not even close. I'm not even close. It's over. Forget it. Drop kick me out. I'm out of here. And then Sunday, we rehearsed all day and it was like everything had just settled. And then all of a sudden, on Monday, I looked too comfortable. And so we sped it up. But then that added a whole new thing to, like, all right, now I've got to redo all this.

[Mandy Moore]

And that's vulnerable. You said you're type A. I am also type A. So I understand this, that, like, you're used to being in control.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Of how you are going to present yourself in any sort of a way. Great dance is when you can stop, like, that control of, like, how it's going, the outcome, and, like, trust the process. Be vulnerable in the moment and dance from, like, inside. You have to find a moment of, like, being able to dance from, like, your heart.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Because that's when people love you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

They can let go of a, like, weird arm or a thing with a foot or a knee or whatever. But, like, if you look like you're having the time of your life and you're feeling this thing and you have, like, risen to the occasion, people are going to be into it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay. I love that vulnerability. Anything else you think makes a good student of dance?

[Mandy Moore]

I think a good combo between, I would say, like, head and heart that you're able to, like. Because I don't know if you feel this and the bits that you've been working with. Posh. But, like, I find when you're learning something, it's like, it starts with head and you're kind of like, mathematically trying to figure out what's going on because you also don't want to be a hot mess. Just, like, leading from your art, like, and he's just twirling you around the floor. But then you start getting super heady and you have to then go, like, okay, I gotta feel it. I gotta, like, let it in my body. And then you get all a hot mess again. And then you're like, no, no, no, back to the head. And then before you know, It. It's like those little interactions get smaller and smaller and smaller, and you kind of, like, put them together, and you move from both your head and your heart at the same time. And I think that makes a really great student if you're able to do those things.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, that's a. That's a very good point. That. And Pasha had said that to me when we started working, like, on day one, he was like, listen, the first layer of this is all mental.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's just a matter of you, your steps, where your feet go, what you're supposed to do with your hand. All of that's in your brain. Then after you feel good about that, then we're going to have to get into performing it, dancing it. Dance with your heart. Dance, you know, feel the move. Feel. And start putting some spice in it. If you put too much spice on it, we'll go. We'll. We'll tone it back. We'll tone it back. But go all out on the spice at first. And so we. We've been. We've been working on that. I did see somebody made a comment about our tango that I smile. I smiled a little too much during a tango for their preference. And I thought, that's a great note. And yet, being that it was our first week and it was kind of America's first introduction to me, I was okay with it being more of a representation of me rather than necessarily a representation of a perfect tango.

[Mandy Moore]

Well, it's hard. It's interesting you say that. Cause I always think, like, on week one, I feel for people that have a more, like, serious dance.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, because you're right, people.

[Mandy Moore]

I mean, you have to understand this is also a game. It's a show. And you have to make sure that people connect to you and know me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Because you have a very bubbly personality. So it's like, it would be hard. Even though you're a great actress, it would be hard to just, like, week one, be doing some, like, sultry, serious, like, James Bond assassin tango. Because then also people might be like, who is this girl? Like, I don't even like her. She looks miserable. And you're like, no, no. I'm just playing a character.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. On top of that with the themes. The theme was anthem week, and my anthem was also very much tied to my breast cancer journey.

[Mandy Moore]

So it was, like, stronger, right? Kelly Clarkson.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it was stronger by Kelly Clarkson. I didn't want to go out there and be like, look at me. I was like, that's just not. That's not what the story is like. I had to tell a story with the tango, and even if it isn't the very traditional story you tell with a tango, I. We made a decision that fit it to me, and I thought it was great. Thank you.

[Mandy Moore]

I really did.

[Danielle Fishel]

I had really had. I'm having the time of my.

[Mandy Moore]

You guys were, like, literally flying. Like, there was a really. I remember a wide shot where you like, we're going up. Yeah. I love. I mean, I love it when they fly in a tangle, too. I'm like, this is the best. And you guys did a great job of that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. We. We worked really hard on that because we envisioned that we were going to be shot from that angle where we were going to be going toward it. And so we worked so hard on making sure I wasn't bouncing because I'm a bouncy human being. Boy, I've dance really showed me how much I love to hop.

[Mandy Moore]

I just.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm hopping into everything. I don't know what's happen. Pasha's like, please, for the love of God, stay low.

[Mandy Moore]

She's like, okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

So we worked really hard on that. Then we worked really hard on the, you know, sharp head. I mean, we spent so much time on it. And then we saw the shot, and he's like, great. So we're shot from behind overhead, but we'll see some pyro, which, you know, again, great. It was. It was very cool. But, yes, we worked hard on that, and I was proud of that moment because we. We did fly across the floor, and if you had been closer, you would have seen that. I was not bound.

[Mandy Moore]

No, you were not. I saw you in the wide. You were not.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. Are you all caught up on this season of Dancing with the stars?

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And everything. I've watched, like, most of everybody's duets because also right after the season, I don't know if you knew it, but I direct the tour.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh.

[Mandy Moore]

And so part of my world is I like, you know, love the show. Been on it a million and five times.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

But also, like, I love doing the research of, like, what it. What's everybody doing? Because I like to track your guys stories, too. So, like, if there's anything that happens with tour, then I can kind of know, like, oh, this is where you started, or this was a great song for you. Or this was a kind of a hard critique moment or whatever. It's just good to kind of know it all. So. Yeah. I'm close. I'm almost caught up.

[Danielle Fishel]

Real. Okay. And so you're obviously well into planning the tour now. Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. Well, I'm. I mean, it starts in January, right? It starts. Yes. And it's hard because it's like, I can't get too far in because I have to see how the season goes, you know?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. And yet you can't really, you know, season ends November 25th.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So if you were to wait, you'd have, like, one month to do an.

[Mandy Moore]

Entire tour stress ball change. And I'm also a planner, so I got to, like, get the stuff going.

[Danielle Fishel]

But so you have to have the loose. The bullet points and then fill in with the details once you've seen the whole season. We have heard a lot from people on the show this year, from other people, about how this season seems to be extra competitive. Do you think that this season feels more competitive than other seasons, or is it in the same ballpark?

[Mandy Moore]

Work. That's interesting. I kind of got that from you guys in the first couple. I mean, there's. Every season is its own unique beast.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

You know, but I did feel funny enough, even at GMA, when I, like, first met you. I mean, for three seconds at 3:00am.

[Danielle Fishel]

Those days are crazy.

[Mandy Moore]

I don't even understand, like, honestly, in GMA, I've done a 7,000 of those GMAs, and I. Even this year, I was like, well, I was walking out after you guys all were like. That night, I was like, what just happened? My eyeballs were, like, so hot. Anyways, when I met you all, I thought, oh, there's, like, a thing. There's, like, a spark between all of you. Like, I do think that the casting was really well done with Dina and the team, but also, like, you guys are good dancers, and you're great personalities, and then even the mix of the pros that are here too, like, yeah, it's. You just never know from year to year, season to season, like, who's gonna pop, who's gonna actually, like, in the 11th hour, do something amazing or who you thought was gonna be the person, and then they kind of fall from grace or. Yeah, but you guys are all in pretty high scores in the first coup.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know, and I know that they anticipated they were not going to do that. I know. I think last year in particular, they started kind of high, and then they had nowhere to go. Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Because you're, like, not. Can't give it 9.2 or 9.7. You get a 10, and you get.

[Danielle Fishel]

A 10 if everyone starts at it or if a lot of people start at an 8. And then three or four weeks later, they're clearly better, but they're still getting eights. The audience is like, well, wait a minute, I saw this person grow. Why would they still get an 8?

[Mandy Moore]

And it's hard. I think the audience doesn't understand that as a judge. Also, it's like anything. The show's been going for whatever, 30 some seasons and everyone's gotten better and better and better. So not only are the pros smarter, they know how to train you guys better. Also, just culturally, everyone's gotten better and they understand dance. And I think the kinds of people that are coming on the show are very talented. So it is hard when you're like, I've always said that. I was like, I wish we had at some point when it got to like nines, eights and nines, that you could go like 9.1, 9.2. Because there are little bits of like, oh, you were better last week, but not this week. But you can't do that when it's just a 9 and a 10. Or an 8 and 9 and a 10.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

They're also. I think the judges honestly have the hardest.

[Mandy Moore]

I do.

[Danielle Fishel]

They have the hardest job. For one thing, anytime someone maybe gives criticism that is earned, even if it feels harsh and some it's there, it's being said to somebody's fave. Yeah. And they get booed. I know, it's such a terrible feeling. It's like, listen, it is their job. They're not trying to be hurtful. None of them in any way have a mean spirited bone in their body. They, we are all there. I mean, that's the thing I think I've been most impressed with, with the show is how there is not a single person there, top to bottom crew, abc, BBC pros dancers, anyone who's not there to absolutely just make the best stinking program they can, 1,000%.

[Mandy Moore]

And it's been like that for a long time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I mean, they just want it to be the most entertaining, positive, enjoyable learning experience. And they do such a good job at it. So anyway, the judges, I. I feel for them. As a matter of fact, I reached out to Derek today. Yeah, I don't think he follows me, so he may not see it, but I reached out to him because his. He got stuck with one word of advice for me last week, or not of advice or his critique of me, and he said, good. And I was like, I need more. I need, I'm gonna need more. I'm going into week three. I know on the show you were limited to one word, but anything you're willing to share with me. So Derek, if you see this, sent you a dm.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah, answer the dm. Come on.

[Danielle Fishel]

He knows.

[Mandy Moore]

Like that's the thing. He's been a pro. He knows and so he's. I'm sure he has some advice for you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, he definitely has advice for me and I want to hear it because I want to soak it all up.

[Mandy Moore]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Mandy Moore]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Mandy Moore]

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[Danielle Fishel]

That's oregonhomecarejobs.com.

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[Danielle Fishel]

There's a lot going on in Hollywood. How are you supposed to stay on top of it all? Variety has the solution. Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new daily Variety podcast for breaking entertainment, news and expert perspectives.

[Commercial Announcer]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[Danielle Fishel]

Featuring the iconic Journalists of Variety and hosted by co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton.

[Mandy Moore]

The only constant in Hollywood is change.

[Danielle Fishel]

Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen now. I've been asking every podcast guest this question because it seems as though there are two camps. Where do you fall on the idea of whether or not celebrities, quote, unquote, should be allowed to have extensive dance experience before they come on Dancing with the Stars? Some people think it's no problem. It's not called let me teach you how to dance, you know, and other people say, yeah, but it's. It. It doesn't seem fair. Where do you fall?

[Mandy Moore]

I don't have a problem with it because I also understand that I would say probably 100% of the time that people that have prior dance experience have never done ballroom and Latin.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And as someone who understands the difference between ballroom and Latin and more contemporary sty or commercial styles, even social dance styles, if someone's like, oh, I'm a salsa dancer, it is not the same thing. And honestly, a lot of the times it's almost harder for people that have pre existing ideas about what dance is because they get in there and they're like, oh, this feels weird. I would never want to step this way in my heels. I don't do that when I do my other style.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

And I also just think, like, I think the audience is smart enough to understand what they're looking at. And I think people like to see growth. So if they're seeing growth in someone who is already a great dance performer versus someone who has had no dance experience, I think the audience is smart enough, give them credit to understand what that journey is. I mean. And yes, you know, everyone wants to like, complain about everything these days. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Everyone wants to share their opinion.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. But I think it's great. I think the show can be for anyone. I mean, it's also like a football player comes on and they all of a sudden know how to cha cha really well. Like you're gonna fault them for being athletic.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right? Exactly.

[Mandy Moore]

You know what I mean?

[Danielle Fishel]

Technically, it's unfair. You know, even. Even in the sense that it part of it's a personality correct thing. That's unfair too, you know, so we've all got our strengths. That's what I keep saying. Everyone keeps asking, like, who's your biggest competition? And I'm like, it's impossible to say because first of all, America is so in charge with the votes. Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

1,000%.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who they connect to and what they find the most Entertaining. Some people truly are voting who is the best dancer here. Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

And some are just like, I like the entertainment of that person.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. I think this person is better at dancing because I'm entertained by them, not because they pointed their toe the right way or because they did a good arm. So, you know, that's why I keep saying it's like it would be impossible for me to say who is competition. Everyone is competition because we all bring our own strengths.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. And you never know. Never know.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's exactly right. Though. Another point of contention that I've been seeing brought up is breaking frame.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, here we go.

[Danielle Fishel]

To. To involve possibly a viral moment or a TikTok moment or adding in a lift that maybe isn't supposed to be there. If you were judging, how would you feel about that? Would you deduct for those things? Do you like it?

[Mandy Moore]

It's an interesting question, and I think it's a. For me, it's evolved over the seasons, you know, because obviously when the show started, we were not in the social media place that we are now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct.

[Mandy Moore]

And ballroom dance and Latin dance in its nature is insular. And so much about the partnering and so much about the frame and so much about respecting the tradition. And I think, like anything, if you don't respect tradition but allow it to grow and evolve, it will die a death because no one's gonna care that you have. Like, my dad, when he watches the show, doesn't know that you're in a perfect frame, but he might appreciate that. A judge said you had really good frame in that dance, but then he would like the moment where you broke frame and was like, oh, I remember that cute thing where, you know, so I. I think you have to evolve. And again, I, you know, I don't think you should, like, pay. It shouldn't be disrespectful to the art form. But I think these pros do such a good job of really teaching their celebrity how to do this thing that they know and love. These guys have trained their whole lives to do it. Also, they want to break frame sometimes because they're bored. They've done the same thing forever.

[Danielle Fishel]

They've done. And they want to. They. And they want to modernize it and help try something new and get a creative input in there that maybe wouldn't normally be in there.

[Mandy Moore]

Creators and choreographers, as we were saying, like, they. And they want the moment too. They want to make you stick out as well. You know, if you're just. I feel for them sometimes because if some of them just play by the rules, you know, and, like, you do a proper tangle or you do a proper cha cha. And then all of a sudden, this person over here.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

Did. Did 97% of a proper whatever, but then had the one moment that everybody remembered.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

So they also have to play the game when they're creating.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

And I respect it. I say go for it. As long as you're not disrespectful.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly. Even if it means occasionally getting a note.

[Mandy Moore]

Sure.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

I mean, I guess there's also rules. Like, when I've judged, like, we are very clear about what the rules are. And so, yes, if you have to deduct, then you should deduct. I mean, that's also a thing is, like, you can't deduct for one and then not for the other. I mean, as a judge, you have to make sure that you're even.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And make sure that you don't. You're not playing favorites in any sort of a way. Like, you do have to make sure you're unbiased in that way. But, you know, I say go for it, and then, you know. You know, like, you know, I have to deduct you on this moment. But guess what? It was a great moment.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. Exactly. You're gonna get a little bit of a lower score, but I did enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. That's really smart. That's a good point. That, like, you guys have a list of things. Yes. And as long as you're following the rules. Yeah. It's still okay to do it as long as even the pros know.

[Mandy Moore]

All right.

[Danielle Fishel]

We might get a little bit of a deduction, but it's worth it.

[Mandy Moore]

And isn't it? Sometimes in life you should break a rule.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly.

[Mandy Moore]

Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, listen, I was a major rule follower up until I up and type A's where that's what we're best at. And then you get to a certain point, you go, you know what? I think it's a little more joyful to occasionally break a rule, and it's okay.

[Mandy Moore]

Not hurting anybody.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. It's exactly certain rules.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

What do you think is the number one thing I need to focus on this season after having seen my two dances?

[Mandy Moore]

I would say continue to push yourself to go bigger.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

And bolder.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

Be more bold. Because now you're going into week three and week four.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Hopefully. Hope you're good. Very far.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

People start to separate away from the pack.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Right. In the first couple weeks, everyone's kind of like, they're just getting their feet wet. Then, like, some people might have, like, a. Wow, that was a great dance. Or a middle dance, or, like. But starting in week three and week four, you have to make bigger choices. And that's, like, in your performance, you need to show more. More vulnerability, more emotion, more character. Right. Because they're getting to know you now. So now they know you from your packages. They know that you're a nice person. They know that you're talented and you come from the blah, blah, blah. You know, it's like, they know that now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

But now you have to start making bolder, bigger choices, not only in your movement. So, like, more highs and lows in your dynamics, more plie, More straight legs, more sharp, whatever the focus is, but then also in just the, like, performance of it. What character are you playing? Can you take us? Can you transport us for the minute and a half in that number into whatever world you're wanting us to go into?

[Danielle Fishel]

Such good advice.

[Mandy Moore]

I mean, that's what I would say. Just go big or go home.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know what I mean? Get in there. And it's funny because so much of. Obviously, having been an actor, so much of my acting experience has helped me, but also so much of it is hurting me because actors like to be a little more subtle.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. No, no. It doesn't work in ballroom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Don't you dare be subtle on the ballroom floor.

[Mandy Moore]

They are crazy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. It's insane. And sometimes. Sometimes I'll be like, I'll watch myself in the mirror, and I'm like, I look like a maniac. And then I watch them dance like the pros dance, and I'm like, oh. Oh, no, I don't look like a maniac. They look like maniacs. That's what I need to be doing.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

So there's something very.

[Mandy Moore]

Like, I remember when I first started the show, and I'd watch them do their thing, you know, like, when you watch them dance and do their thing, they're like these crazy peacock, unicorn. Like, who are these people? And like, if you took them out of the context of these, like, cameras and lights in ballroom, you'd be like. Like, you're nuts. Like, I don't know what you're doing out there, but it works. And that is part of the kind of, like, presentation of the art form.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And so as someone who's now, who's new in that world, you have to, like, give into it. You have to be like, okay, I gotta go for it. And the hard part is you still have to find an authenticity inside that you can't just have it be an outside thing. It does have to come from inside.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Which is weird because you're not used to that. Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I guess the best analogy I could think of is, like, the way theater stage makeup is so pronounced in. When you are. You're like, wow, who did your makeup? And then when they're on stage, they look totally normal to the people in the back row.

[Mandy Moore]

Totally.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, in the audience, it's very similar. The camera is diluting and the space is diluting a lot of what you're doing. So it has to be go big or go home, but also from a truly authentic place.

[Mandy Moore]

Did Posh ever say to you. I'm sure he probably has, but, like, like. And you've noticed that, like, camera really takes away a good 20 to 30% of what you're doing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely.

[Mandy Moore]

It's like this beautiful three dimensional thing that we're all creating goes into this two dimensional space. And it looks like you're not even trying. Like, it's nothing. And you're like, I am dying.

[Danielle Fishel]

You felt what I felt on the inside. On the outside, like, we talked about that with the Cha Cha. He was like, inside. By the time our minute is done, we feel like we barely made it on the outside.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

People are saying, you need to speed that up. That looks a little slow. So, yeah, what it feels like on the inside versus what it looks like, especially on camera. Totally different beast.

[Mandy Moore]

That's what's going to change. You're going to start to see your body's going to start making bigger choices.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, you'll.

[Mandy Moore]

You'll start dancing bigger. Pasha will start going like, oh, wow, you're. Yeah, okay. He'll start dancing bigger and then the whole thing expands. And if you don't start doing that now, like, you will find that you're not going to go away from the pack. It'll just kind of like, I'll just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And you'll be. You'll be fine, I'm sure. But it's not anything spectacular. And you want to be for the.

[Danielle Fishel]

People that separate themselves from the pack.

[Mandy Moore]

Of course.

[Danielle Fishel]

Great advice. I love that. Thank you so much. Um, do you think there's a common thread? If you look back on all of the previous Mirror Ball champions, would you say there's something that all of them have in common?

[Mandy Moore]

Wow, that's a really good question, huh? I don't know. I don't think I've ever thought about that. I mean, charisma or They've had a lot of different. Okay. You know what I think they'll have in common? Maybe except for, like two or something. A couple. Yeah. But, you know, sometimes they slip in there. But I think the people that win the Mirrorball trophy are everything we've been talking about, like, the most authentic in the process. Like, they're not trying to pre produce their own packages, their own ideas about how they're being seen. They give into the process and they allow the audience to see them fail. They allow them. The audience to see them succeed. They. They are in the moment completely. Which is very vulnerable and very scary, what you talked about. But I think those are the ones that really get to the top, because it's like, you see. I think the audience sees a bit of themselves in whoever that person is, or they want to see a bit of themselves in that person. Like, they want to be like, oh, that's like my sister, or that's like my cousin. Or like, I want to get in there. I want to dance with Pasha, or I want to. Whatever, you know, so in order to do that, because I also. To think you feel the same. It's like if you're very manicured and you're very produced in your own way of, like, presenting yourself, audience somehow senses it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. You can smell authenticity from a mile away. The same way you can smell chemistry.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know that you. You can't. You can't fake chemistry. You can try, but people can watch. And they go, I don't think those two like each other. Yes, totally.

[Mandy Moore]

You know, you're exactly right. You can. If they can feel the thing, I don't know what it is. It's like unsaid thing that they can feel.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. And when. When someone is. Is trying to, like, even you. You talking about pre producing their own packages. That is something that's like. Yeah, you can feel that from certain people. They're like, very much manicured images. Yes. What is your favorite dance that you have choreographed for Dancing with the Stars?

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. Probably. Ooh. Probably when we did the one shot drone at Griffith Observatory, and it was an opening number that we did, and I can't remember what season. I mean, it was like Derek was still dancing, Max was there, Val was there, Jenna was there, Cheryl. Like, it was kind of like a bit of the OG crew. Like OG 2.0. And we. Yeah. Rob Waid was actually showrunning at the time, and he was like, I think we should do like, this one shot drone at Griffith Observatory. And I was like, you're nuts. I'm in.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly. You're insane. I love it.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And at magic hour, of course, you know, so it's like you have, like, three seconds to get it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. There's no. There's no take two, because when you're.

[Mandy Moore]

Doing it during magic hour and there's no coverage. We shot no coverage. It was the thing. And it was one of those, like, I think you can appreciate this because you, you know, you understand directing. You love directing and producing. It's like it was one of those, like, all the departments came together, we all. To make the thing, and then to see how it turned out was like. Like, that doesn't always happen. It's like the making. And then you're like, oh, it didn't turn out so good. Or like that turned out. And it was terrible making it. It was a perfect. I was so proud of everybody, and it was a beautiful piece of television making, like. I just think, like, we don't get to do it all the time, you know, these days, just because of budgets and things. But it was a really fun number.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, that's so great.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love that. It's funny, when I asked Pasha, when I interviewed him for the podcast, I asked him about what. What felt so special about the night that he and Ariana got their. Their three tens, his first perfect 30, and he said something very similar, which was like, it wasn't even about the scores being the thing. It was the fact that every moment of it had felt right, kind of from the beginning, like the rehearsal of it, and then the vibe of the night, the focus of the, like, the energy. Just when all those little pieces come together and you're trying to overachieve, like you're doing a thing that's like a crazy thing. And then it all goes well. There is something so satisfying about that that, like, it's one of those highs you can live on for a long.

[Mandy Moore]

Time forever on live tv. Like, that's also the thing. Like, this isn't pre shot. This is not. That's the thing. I think people forget, you know, it's like you guys are human beings on a live television show.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. Thanks for reminding. Forgot about that part because it's not live on the west coast, so I forget that for some people, it very much is live tv. Is that crazy, though?

[Mandy Moore]

Like, it. I don't know. I just. Every time I'm at the show, I'm just like, this is nuts. I know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Look what we're doing.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. This Is not robots. This is not like. This is real people doing real things.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. I know. There's a lot of confetti.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

They love a confetti.

[Danielle Fishel]

They love a confetti cannon. Boy, there was so much confetti at this last one. And pasha and I both, like, zero pieces of confetti on the floor Because I do not need anything to sleep slip on.

[Mandy Moore]

No, no, no.

[Danielle Fishel]

So if we see a single piece of confetti when we head out there.

[Mandy Moore]

We'Re like, no, clean that up. Yeah, we're picking it up.

[Danielle Fishel]

We're, like, literally on the floor Picking up pieces of confetti. What do you think is the hardest dance I will have to do this year?

[Mandy Moore]

Probably. I think samba.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

Can be really hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Mandy Moore]

And I think rumba can be really hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

I think because they're. They're both highly technical.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Like, I find when I'm watching. When I'm watching bodies do those two styles that have never done them. Done them, they seem to me to be the hardest ones to, like, really, like, you can't really fake them, if that makes sense. Where I think tango, it's, like, it's a good one to learn because it's like, you. The idea of, like, having to hold your body in a friend, that's kind of easier for people that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

Not that it. It's easy, but.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. Cha cha. You can kind of get away with some things.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep. Because it's so fast.

[Mandy Moore]

Correct jive is hard with kicks, if you can understand the kicks. But I think the bounce and the kind of, like, feel of samba is hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Mandy Moore]

And rumba is, you know, it's like. It's all about the chemistry and the, like, the tension, and, you know, that can be hard. So you have to really make sure that you're like, okay, I'm gonna be awesome this week if I have this. I need to let go, and I need to let live.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right, right.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Good to know. I think pasha's talked to me about both of those dances being hard.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good.

[Danielle Fishel]

When we first started talking about it and we were going through, like, what. What do we want to try to do this year? And he listed out all the different styles of dance, and then he was like, you know, ones we may want to save for later in the season are these. Because they require some more vulnerability. It can be a little more difficult.

[Mandy Moore]

So samba can be, like, super fun. So I think everyone just goes like, oh, it's bouncy and blah. Blah, blah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

But to actually get in there and do it right, that's hard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

So you gotta get in there. Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

As a viewer of Dancing with the Stars, do you find yourself gravitating toward who you think did the best dance or to whatever maybe was your favorite dance?

[Mandy Moore]

Ooh, that's a hard one, too, for me. Cause I feel like I'm not, like, the. Well, okay. Cause I know a lot about dance, so I. You know, sometimes I'm actually more drawn to the person that I feel like was trying really hard because I know how hard it is to get somebody to do.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

What we're asking these people to do.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

But I will say I'm definitely a sucker for a great dance. Like, if something is like, they finish that button and you're like, yeah. Like, there is nothing like that, you know? But I also just love to see people try and do and, like, be in the moment. I can't stand it when people are a mess. When it looks like, oh, you didn't put in the work.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. You didn't try.

[Mandy Moore]

Like, you didn't try. Yeah. Are you, like, you should have done 14 more hours of rehearsal, and you didn't. You thought you had it and you don't got it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right, right. You know, that makes sense again, that Type A. We see it and we go, oh, I see. You didn't care at all, did you?

[Mandy Moore]

I see you.

[Danielle Fishel]

I see you. I know what happened here now, because of your work on the Errors Tour. I don't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out that maybe Jan coming to Dancing with the Stars had something to do with you.

[Mandy Moore]

I cannot say. But no. Okay. You know, I. I love Jan very much, and I've known him now after working with him this last couple years with the ERAS tour, and, you know, things were coming into play and, you know, I just. I think the world of him, and I'm very excited for him in this opportunity, actually, because I'm like, it's great for the show. It's great for him. Ultimately, he has to get out there and do the thing.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Mandy Moore]

And I'm very proud of him. I mean, I don't know if you've ever talked to him. I mean, he's hysterical.

[Danielle Fishel]

I adore him.

[Mandy Moore]

And he knows that. My only thing was like, please don't go. Week one. Please, please don't. Please don't do that. And so I sent him a message, actually, yesterday. I was like, did you. Didn't go home. Week one. Well done.

[Danielle Fishel]

Congratulations.

[Mandy Moore]

You Made it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. I know. It was so funny. I asked him, trying to remember. It was after Good Morning America. It must have been, like, right around week one. And I said, how are you liking it? You know, what's going on? And he said, I'm. I'm more used to being just a supporting. A supporting character. This is where now I'm such a main character. He's like, it's taking some getting used to.

[Mandy Moore]

It's really hard. And I even saw that on gma. I mean, he looked like his eyeballs were so wide the whole time. And I kept telling him, I'm like, you know, this is gonna be a lot for you. I just wanna let you know, like, because it is. You get thrust into the spotlight.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

And it's true. He's used to being the supporting act to somebody who is exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

A megastar.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

But he's so good. Like I said to him, but you're so good at it when you do, when you talk, when you engage. He's so funny. I really. I have absolutely just completely adored him. When you. You got to judge on Dancing with the Stars.

[Mandy Moore]

I have, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

For Taylor Swift night, right? Yeah. Okay. Unbelievable. What did it feel like having to be all judgy and giving out numbers? It's weird.

[Mandy Moore]

It was the second time I'd done it, so I'd done one, like, three or four seasons before on, like, a movie night or something. And that first one, I was so nervous because I was like, again, these are. They're my peers. Yes. I am in a leadership role with them when I choreograph. But ultimately, they are my peers. They are creators, just like I am. So to be in the judging seat, I thought, what am I gonna be able to bring to this moment that maybe some of the other judges can't?

[Danielle Fishel]

Great.

[Mandy Moore]

And it was that I am a peer, and so it was like talking to them, like, I would. Anyone that, like, I was in the dance studio with them, you know, and they. After that first one I did, I kind of adopted that for Taylor stuff too. Or that Taylor night, because all the pros were like, thank you for your critiques. Because it felt like I was talking to my friend about what I needed to do, you know? And I understand. Not that Bruno and Derek and those guys don't anymore, because they do. But I'm so much closer to that moment because I still. I'm still in the room. I still choreograph as I'm doing an opening number in a couple weeks.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

So I will be in that ballroom with them.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Mandy Moore]

So, you know, it was. I mean, it's always nerve wracking because it's like, again, live, and you're like, dear God, I don't want to say anything stupid and I don't want to, like, mess up this course and pull.

[Danielle Fishel]

Up the wrong thing. Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

But you do have to also, like, take in the moment and realize, oh, I'm bringing something to this. I have expertise that I can bring. It's different than Carrie Ann, different than Derek, different than Bruno, and that makes me who I am as a judge. That's all I can do.

[Danielle Fishel]

You seem to be uniquely qualified to give this advice right now.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And I don't want to speak like Bruno because I'm not Bruno.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Mandy Moore]

So I will speak like myself. And, you know, hopefully, if that works, it works. And apparently everyone was happy, so everyone was thrilled.

[Danielle Fishel]

So. Yes. If given the opportunity, what would be a theme night that you would add to Dancing with the Stars?

[Mandy Moore]

Whoa. This is a good question. Oh, my gosh. What if you did, like. I don't know. I don't know why I just saw this. Like, what if you did, like, dance in the kitchen night or something? Or like, songs that, you know, you're like, oh, I love that song. I would dance while I'm, like, making my.

[Danielle Fishel]

My vac. My cleaning playlist. Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. Like something where you're, like, at home. But I love that song. And I dance at home.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Or like cross country road trip. Yes. Playlist. Like something that you need to fill a few hours. That keeps the vibes good.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. That's a really great, great song.

[Danielle Fishel]

Great songs.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, that's a good one. I like that.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own, with a job in home care.

[Danielle Fishel]

These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care.

[Mandy Moore]

Retirement options, and free training.

[Danielle Fishel]

They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime.

[Mandy Moore]

Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's oregonhomecarejobs.com Hula.

[Mandy Moore]

We got one play.

[Commercial Announcer]

Everything we work for comes down to this. Quick question. Speaking of workouts, how would you rate your athletic program? Bro, we're in the middle of the state championship. Oh, so like a B then?

[Mandy Moore]

Dude, get.

[Commercial Announcer]

Get out of our huddle. Well, at homes.com we leave it all on the field to get you detailed information on local schools. Off the field. Off the field.

[Danielle Fishel]

Copy.

[Commercial Announcer]

All right. Go sports. How'd he even get in here? Holmes.com. we've done your homework. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough and cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief Tablets or Liquid Gels, Halls Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night so you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because, let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time, save [e-mail] with code fall25. Bring the boom XBoom.

[Danielle Fishel]

There's a lot going on in Hollywood. How are you supposed to stay on top of it all? Variety has the solution. Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new daily Variety podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Mandy Moore]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[Danielle Fishel]

Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and hosted by co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton.

[Mandy Moore]

The only constant in Hollywood is change.

[Danielle Fishel]

Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen Now. Can you tell us a little bit more about your work on the Dancing with the Stars tour and also how you're going to be able to accommodate me? Because now that I'm a part of Dancing with the Stars, I literally don't think I'm ever going to be able to return to my normal life. So how can you involve me? I'll clean the kitchens or the bathrooms or whatever. Just let me be around.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh my God. Come dance. That would be so fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

I would love to.

[Mandy Moore]

Well, the tour is like, okay, so I've done the tour forever.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Multiple roles. Like, I used to be supervising choreographer and then I was co director for a while and then I've been director for the last like four years, five years, I think. And it is so fun. I mean, like, again, we don't have to talk about this now, but it would be amazing if you could come on and you could do your thing and, you know, that's all. There are people that talk and, you know, your group has to talk to my group, whatever. You know, fine. But it is so fun to get out there and be amongst these people that vote for you into. You go into their towns, and they, you know, basically, we are bringing this television show that they know and love right to their back door. And it's also an amazing moment for these pros to dance their face off.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. I mean, yes, they are. This show has shown me the real stars of this show are these pros.

[Mandy Moore]

I mean, they're incredible.

[Danielle Fishel]

They are incredible. I mean, I really can't say it enough, just how hard their job is to deal with a different personality every season. They have no idea what they're gonna get.

[Mandy Moore]

No idea.

[Danielle Fishel]

Every person learns differently. So even if they figure out how they become very good teachers, they have to adapt for somebody who's gonna not, you know, not work well. Also, what if they are best at teaching from 9 to 1, but this person sleeps until 3pm every day and they need to do 5 to 9 every night?

[Mandy Moore]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And, like, just the amount of things they have to do and then dealing with our little, like, meltdowns and struggles and freaking injuries, you know, I mean, just. It's so much. And they do it all with so much grace. They're all so friendly with each other. They're all so, so supportive. It. I just. They are so. It feels to me. The thing I think I love most about the idea of tour is that they are the stars of tour.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah, that was a big thing. When I. When I took it over, I was like, I really want to just highlight them and make a show that they love to do every night, that they feels good on their bodies, good in their souls, but then also highlights whoever's gonna come out. So if we've got a celebrity that comes out that we still have the kind of show that can highlight them and their journey for the moment and kind of, like, plop into a fun party for a couple days or a week or two weeks, whatever it is, and then go away, you know? And like, that. It doesn't make. The show doesn't sacrifice in any way. So it's. It's fun. It's actually one of my favorite jobs I do every year. And that's why I keep coming back, because I just. Again, they're like my family and getting in the room and creating with Pasha.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Mandy Moore]

Being with Daniella, being with Brit, being with Emma, being with Alan, Val, Jenna, all those guys, like, these are my cats. They're like my squad, you know? So to get to make with them is so fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love that so much.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

What is a dance from over the years that you think encapsulates the spirit and specialness of the show?

[Mandy Moore]

I always think that. Oh, wow. I don't know. It's a.

[Danielle Fishel]

Again, damn.

[Mandy Moore]

These are good questions. You're real good at your job. Okay, you know what? I actually. Okay. I don't know why I just thought about this, but did you see that Lynn Goodman tribute that Val and Jenna did?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

To me, I'm like, that for some reason, encapsulates what makes the show so special, that. But they were able to take, you know, a style of dance and a moment on live television, which, you know, doesn't always get to be the moment and celebrate a man who was a huge part of our show. And they did it so eloquently, and it was poetic and it was beautiful and it was entertaining and it was like. I just remember when I watched it, I thought, like, good on you guys. Like, that was the moment.

[Danielle Fishel]

He would have loved that.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. And it was just done right. You know, it was produced right. It was costumed right. It was lit right. It was shot right. It was one of those things that, again, everybody came together to make the very best moments. And, yeah, I guess that would be the one I thought of.

[Danielle Fishel]

That really does sum up perfectly what Dancing with the Stars is. It's like from every angle, there is a team working their hardest to make sure that the end result is as close to perfect as it could possibly be. From the wardrobe to the lighting, to the hair, to the choreography, to the dancers. It is. It's. It's such a. It's a machine and it's a well oiled machine and it's somehow not cold. Yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Love this. You know, that's awesome.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, how. How are you a machine that is also a Jacuzzi.

[Mandy Moore]

So warm and fuzzy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Fun. Like, get me a beverage and. And put out the Jacuzzi arms.

[Mandy Moore]

Like, how?

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't know. I. It's just. It's amazing. And I. I'm just so happy that I am a part of this 20th season, that this Earth. 20th anniversary, 34th season. I am just, just. I. I spent way too many years saying no for many different reasons. And boy, I'm thrilled. This was the perfect year to say yes.

[Mandy Moore]

Yes. Good. You're going to kill it, too. I can't wa. I can't wait to see it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I appreciate your advice. I'm going to take every last bit of it and I'm going to be thinking about you this week as we are practicing our Foxtrot.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, you have a foxtrot. I love a foxtrot.

[Danielle Fishel]

So does Pasha.

[Mandy Moore]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

He's very good at a foxtrot. Very good at a foxtrot. Very good. Oh, my God.

[Mandy Moore]

I love this.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm so excited. So I'm going to be. I'm going to be huge. Okay, good, good.

[Mandy Moore]

I'll be watching.

[Danielle Fishel]

But also, shoulders down.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah, yeah. Because if you don't, you don't look nuts. Don't look nuts.

[Danielle Fishel]

Don't look nuts. Also, I can't have Bruno tell me a third week in a row that I need to keep my shoulders down. I. My number one goal for this week is that Bruno says, hey, I saw your neck.

[Mandy Moore]

Yeah. You know what? Also think maybe long neck instead of shoulders down? Because sometimes shoulders down people get like this, and they're still like, kind of like turtle y. But if you go like long neck at the same time, that might help.

[Danielle Fishel]

A good idea. Thank you. Yeah, I. I try. I don't have a long neck, so I use my.

[Mandy Moore]

Fake them out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. I just got to pretend that's why.

[Mandy Moore]

I look at you. Do you love your dress? Oh, my God. A foxshot dress.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love my dress. It's so beautiful. I was just talking about it with Pasha last night. We're trying to decide if we're gonna do a long sleeve, but if we do a long sleeve, I want the thing over the middle finger. I want long, and I want sheer with rhinestones.

[Mandy Moore]

Gorgeous.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. It's gonna be so pretty.

[Mandy Moore]

I feel like a million bucks.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much for joining me. I, Mandy Moore, you are a legend. I am just so honored that you came and spent time with me this morning.

[Mandy Moore]

Anytime, my friend. Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. Danielle with the Stars produced and hosted by Danielle Fischl, executive producers Jensen Karp, and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer, editor, and engineer, Tara Sudbaksh. Theme song by Justin Segal. Follow us on Instagram at daniellewithstars and.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Mandy Moore]

Sometimes.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Well, almost. Almost anything.

[Commercial Announcer]

You can't get a running back but baby back ribs. Yes, Uber Eats official on demand food delivery partner of the NFL. At homes.com we do whatever it takes to get you the in depth info on local schools you won't find anywhere else. Things like student teacher ratio, test scores and school programs. And sometimes that requires attending school recitals. So many recitals. That's my son. Isn't he terrific? Yeah, a real prodigy. Homes.com we've done your homework. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough and cold Season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief tablets or Liquid Gels, Halls Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night so you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.