Danielle with…Louis van Amstel

Summary

Pod Meets World: "Danielle with…Louis van Amstel"

Host: Danielle Fishel
Guest: Louis van Amstel
Date: November 2, 2025
Episode Focus: A heartfelt conversation between Danielle Fishel, current Dancing with the Stars contestant and Boy Meets World alum, and ballroom legend Louis van Amstel. The episode delves into the early days and continued evolution of DWTS, Louis’s career, coaching philosophy, and Danielle’s personal journey as a dancer on the show.

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, Danielle Fishel interviews Louis van Amstel—celebrated ballroom coach, Dancing with the Stars (DWTS) OG pro, and TV personality. Together, they reminisce about DWTS's beginnings, discuss the show's casting and philosophy, and examine the complexities of coaching and celebrity transformation on reality TV. Danielle opens up about her own dance journey, insecurities, and growth, while Louis provides both candid advice and behind-the-scenes insights from his two decades with the series.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Louis’s Role in the Birth of DWTS

• DWTS’s Origin Story:
  • Based on the British show Strictly Come Dancing.
  • Louis was approached due to his international ballroom background and quickly agreed to join.

    “I didn’t think twice… I did not question it. I did. I also thought it was the golden opportunity for ballroom dancing to be put in the limelight.” — Louis (05:21)

• Recruiting Pros:
  • Louis helped select and recruit the first pro cast, advocating for international and cross-trained dancers.

    “I picked up the phone… here, pick up the phone and make sure you say yes.” — Louis (07:33)

• Impact on Ballroom:
  • Saw the show as a celebration of dance, not a mockery, and foresaw its mass appeal.

2. Coaching Philosophy & Lessons Learned

• Learning Curve on TV:
  • Louis came in with a “coach’s attitude," expecting championship-level dedication.

    “I came in from coaching people like Jenna Johnson… and then I went in with that coaching attitude in Dance with the Stars. Oh, my gosh. I looked like an—” — Louis (12:45)

  • Quickly learned the need for empathy, adaptability, and understanding that celebrities are not full-time dancers.
  • Humbled by early elimination, which shifted his approach from “strict coach” to adaptive mentor.
• Adapting to Each Star:
  • “As a coach, as a teacher, as a dancer—expect the unexpected… because I don’t know who I am partnered with.” — Louis (15:47)
  • Importance of modifying teaching style: some stars need a slower pace, visuals, encouragement; others need a push.

3. Celebrity Experience & Show Evolution

• Transformation Beyond Dance:
  • Kelly Osbourne’s journey cited as Louis’s most profound partnership:

    “Even though it’s 2009, that journey has not only affected her or maybe changed her life, it has changed mine. … To affect and help someone in front of millions and then for her to really listen…” — Louis (30:03)

• The Influence of the Audience:
  • Discussed the tension between “best” versus “favorite” dancer and the impact of viewer votes.

    “We’re not looking for the best dancer to win the show. We’re looking for the favorite. And hopefully the best dancer is also the favorite, you know.” — Louis (29:25)

  • Advice: Even those getting top scores are not safe—viewers must vote.

4. The Debate Over Dance Experience

• Stacked Casts & Mixed Experience:
  • Frustration at first over stars with prior dance experience, but appreciation grew for how non-dancer celebs represent the audience.
  • Visual spectacle and diversity keep the show compelling.
  • Transparency about the realities of audience voting:

    “It’s really the people at home that are voting… and if only dancers made the final, would anyone watch?” — Louis (26:14)

5. Strategy & Success on DWTS

• The Role of Strategy:
  • Strategic song selection and dance assignment are critical—Louis kept song lists and planned for challenging dances early.
• Arranging for the “Narrative Arc”:
  • Saving emotive, high-impact routines for later to “pull on the heartstrings.”
• “Vote, Vote, Vote!”:
  • Even high scores can’t save a pair if viewers assume they’re safe.

6. Personal Journeys, Vulnerability & Advice

• Danielle’s Growth:
  • Opens up about insecurities, team dance pressure, and feeling like the “weak link”.
  • Louis emphasizes comparing efforts, not resumes:

    “You’re not the weakest link. You are the person that came in with the least amount of dance experience. So the pressure is on them, not you.” — Louis (42:26)

• Advice for Danielle:
  • Repeated encouragement to “peel off all the layers,” release emotional restraint, and perform authentically.

    “Your personal, emotional self, I feel, is held back. … Go raw, raw, raw.” — Louis (47:57)

  • Encourages Danielle to commit fully, embrace vulnerability, and recognize her own progress.
• On Performing ‘Dream On’:
  • Danielle describes the emotional weight of the dance and narrative—being judged as a woman in the public eye, feeling “always too much and never enough.”

    “It has been a difficult week for me because I have been really resistant to the dance … it’s triggering so many things in me. … The story is kind of about how you can quiet the outside noise and dream your own dreams and live life to the fullest.” — Danielle (50:10)

  • Louis reassures her:

    “Let these triggers be the reasons why you unpeel that onion. … On Monday, jump off that cliff and fly.” — Louis (53:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On DWTS’s First Season Nerves

  “Season one, week one, everyone—ABC, the showrunner—everyone was so nervous… and then we had 13.5 million viewers and they couldn’t be happier.” — Louis (11:54)

• On Fame and Transformation

  “This is TV. To affect and help someone in front of millions—and then for her to really listen … it has changed mine.” — Louis, on working with Kelly Osbourne (30:03)

• On Coaching Styles

  “I don’t like being put in a box. I don’t like labels. … You expect the unexpected. That’s really my coaching philosophy.” — Louis (16:46)

• On Danielle’s Next Steps

  “It’s like an onion that you peel off every single week and you show a little bit more of yourself. I would say rip off all the layers that are left… It’s the emotional self… go raw, raw, raw.” — Louis (47:51) “Whatever they throw at you, enjoy it and see it as they come on. Bring it on. Bring it on.” — Louis (41:39)

• Danielle on the Burden of Public Scrutiny

  “Whether it’s working outside the home or inside… if you get botox, then you’re not aging gracefully. If you age gracefully, you look old and ugly … it feels like there’s no winning.” — Danielle (50:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Louis describes getting the call for DWTS and recruiting pros: 05:21–08:00
• Coaching and learning from season one: 11:40–13:40
• Adapting coaching style for each celebrity: 15:46–17:37
• Reflections on Kelly Osbourne partnership: 29:49–32:36
• On voting, strategy, and the importance of viewers: 34:34–37:00
• Danielle’s team dance anxiety and Louis’s advice: 41:39–43:32
• Louis’s advice for Danielle’s growth and emotional performance: 47:03–49:36
• Exploring the story and vulnerability behind Danielle’s ‘Dream On’ piece: 50:10–53:01
• Louis’s closing encouragement (jump off the cliff!): 53:39–55:00

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a heartfelt exchange about art, growth, and reinvention—both personal and within the world of ballroom dance. Louis van Amstel’s behind-the-scenes memories and wisdom provide historical perspective, while Danielle’s vulnerability and openness about her own journey offer inspiration to contestants and fans alike. Their candor about challenges, performance pressure, and the emotional landscape of DWTS highlights why the show continues to captivate after 20 years.

For fans and newcomers, this conversation is a reminder that behind every cha-cha and quickstep, there’s a real story of transformation, strategy, and courage.

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Extra Motivation from Louis for All Contestants (and Listeners):

“Whatever they throw at you, enjoy it... Bring it on, bring it on.” (41:39)

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

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[Danielle Fishel]

Welcome back. It's me, Danielle Fishel, TV director, podcaster, mother of two, and colloquially known as Topanga from the 90s family sitcom Boy Meets World, but to almost 7 million viewers and counting every week. I am a Competitor on season 34 of Dancing with the Stars paired with my professional pal Pasha Pashkov. And in addition to my transformation from no prior dance experience to ballroom vet, I have been recording this here podcast, keeping tabs on every single moment along the way, hoping that the details of my journey might make your Dancing with the Stars fandom even more enjoyable. Plus, I have been joined by pros, former contestants, and my beloved competition in hopes that these interviews could double as insider information to push me over the proverbial hump and into the winner's circle, holding the mirrorball trophy well above my head. In the name of every listener. And today, I am joined by a man who was there when it all started, a national champion gold medalist who joined the show in season one and went on to compete with a total of 11 partners, including Kelly Osbourne in season nine, where they made it to the finals and placed third. He's been seen in the ballroom this season taking in the festivities, and I for one, felt just a little more nervous knowing he was in attendance. And with the 20th birthday of the show just around the corner, it would be impossible to imagine its early days without my guest. And now I'm honored to say it. It's Danielle with Louis Van Amstel.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Hi, Danielle. Hi.

[Danielle Fishel]

How are you? There you are.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yes. How are you? Nice to meet you. I didn't meet you. I saw Pasha. Yes, Danielle. Two weeks ago.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, I know. I saw that you were there, but after the fact, I think we may have passed each other very quickly in the breezeway when I was either on my way to warm up or getting one of those many last minute hair and makeup touch ups you get.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yes. And I know how important that is. So I do this and I do not. Yeah, I don't want to disturb anyone, whether it's my partner on the show. It's that. That me time. You know, when you have to get ready and get in the game. Game mode. Game face.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. Game face mode. And there's not much time. And it all depends on where you fall in the show and how you know. Are you last? Are you first? Are you right in the middle? It's a lot. And I wanted to talk with you because you bring such a unique POV considering you were there from season one. When do you remember getting the pitch for Dancing with the Stars and did it sound insane to you? What was your first thought when you heard about it?

[Louis Van Amstel]

It's interesting you asked me this question because Even though it's 20 years ago, it feels like yesterday and I remember every single detail. So Dance with the Stars is based on Strictly Come Dancing, which is Dance with the Stars version in England. And when they successfully brought it back on tv, I guess the Producers asked the British professionals, who do you know in the United States? Well, I'm from Amsterdam. I'm from Holland. My partner was British Julie Fryer. So we were actually on the original Come Dancing when it was counties against each other and then England against Europe. So we danced on the original version before it quits in the late 90s. Anyway, so then one of the producers called me while I was teaching in New York City, and if I was interested in being part of the show that ABC was willing to test out a show about ballroom dancing, they weren't sure, and I didn't think twice. Growing up in theater, I was already retired from competing, and I just had done my Broadway show in 2002 at City Center. So when they said, do you want to be part of it? Yes, I want to. I didn't have to think twice. No.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Louis Van Amstel]

I did not question it. I did. I also thought it was the golden opportunity for ballroom dancing to be put in the limelight. And then it was interesting because then, of course, they asked me, who do you know? Well, I was coaching Alec Mazo and editor Slavinsk at the time. So of course I asked them. And then after they hired Alec Mazo, Ukrainian editor, Slowinska, Polish, myself Dutch. Charlotte Jurgensen, Danish, and then John Roberts, American. So then they called me back. Joe Suncourt, do you. We want an all American. I get it. We're all immigrants. So I was teaching at the famous center stage in Orem, Utah, where all the Utah dances are from.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And he was asking me. I picked up the phone while I was teaching, and Ashley Del Grosso, who was the final lady joining season one, she was in the other room. So I said, joe, hold on. So I walked to the room, I said, here, pick up the phone and make sure you say yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And so that's how that happened. Yeah. Just put my phone in Ashley's hands and she talked to Joe and she did audition and she made it on the show.

[Danielle Fishel]

So you're basically responsible for the entire pro cast of season one.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Well, I wouldn't say the entire cast. It was more, you know, John Roberts, who I did work with as a coach, he was approached, I guess, through another producer and Charlotte Jurgensen, who I competed with in Europe at world championships. So it was fun for all of us to be in a different medium because competition scene or theater, still different than live tv, but we loved it. Yeah. And then I got Julianne Hoff and Derek Hough on the show and a few more. But for me, you know, I'm the old, old one of the bunch. I coached most, most of them that are now on. So for me it's about getting the best dancers that are appropriate for the show. So if you look at Jenna Johnson, you look at Lindsey Arnold Wincy, Whitney Carson, these are all cross tray dancers. Ezra, Cross train. Yeah, Brandon, they're all. And I know them since they were. That makes me really old. Since they were 8, 9 and 10 years old because I was teaching them at center stage. It's just wonderful to see they never decided to go into the ballroom Ballroom World Championships, but instead they have an amazing career on tv. So, yeah, I ain't mad about it exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean it's really smart and it was forward thinking. Thinking of you as someone who had competed in Blackpool, had three Latin dance champion gold medals and a US National Championship with a partner that you knew Homework. I sure have. Well, you knew that there, that they, that it was a chance to celebrate ballroom dancing instead of having fear that it was going to be something that made a mockery of it. Is that how they presented it to you or did you just know that this was going to be a shining opportunity for ballroom dance?

[Louis Van Amstel]

In my heart I knew that this was going to be a success because of having done a Broadway show of my own in 2002 when we had no TV, no ballroom dancing in the limelight. And I knew because of the enthusiasm from that audience that the public will like this. And so many people, not just in the 18 to 38, 18 to 39, but also the older generation. How many of them did ballroom dancing when they grew up? The cotillion, all that. And that's what Dance with the Stars represents. Twenty years in, it still represents that romance, the sassiness and, you know, a little bit more nodding, you know, a little bit of drama, a little bit of everything. Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

So I think it's. I never questioned it. And also when they asked me, do you know more dancers? I was right away thinking, these have to be the right dancers, not the best dancers. Now, now, having said that, when you take a Val Shmikovsky who I coached as well, he could have easily been world champion. He was world champion in junior. He could have taken every single title title. Derek Hough could be world champion. He was youth champion. I was actually there when he became world champion in youth. They, these dancers are not only the right dancers for the show, they're also the best dancers.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Louis Van Amstel]

I mean they're so well trained. And it, I'm proud to say that I was part of that before Dancing with the Stars as their coach.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. Do you remember a specific moment, Maybe it was even during season one, where you felt like, whoa, this is working.

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[Danielle Fishel]

It's gonna go. This show's gonna be a massive success.

[Louis Van Amstel]

The show itself. Yes. I was so happy to hear that. Everyone was so nervous. That first one. Danielle, you guys are nervous coming down those stairs. But season one, week one, everyone. Abc, the showrunner. Conrad Greene, Dina. Everyone was so nervous because this is the first time. And then we had 13.5 million viewers and they couldn't be happier. And that was the summer show. So I knew then it's a hit. However, I've never won the show, but I think I deserve a trophy because Trista Sutter and I were the first ever eliminated couple in season one. Don't you think that deserves something?

[Danielle Fishel]

I. You know what? I do. I think what's the opposite of a mirror ball? What's the.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Well, turn it upside down. It's. Yeah. I learned a lot that first season. Oh, my gosh. I learned a lot because I came in and not to brag or anything, but just to give you and your viewers perspective. I came in from coaching people like Jenna Johnson, Val Shmikovsky, Max Murkowski. And then I went in with that coaching attitude in Dance with the Stars. Oh, my gosh. I looked like an. I mean, I'm not gonna say the capital A because I was tasked.

[Danielle Fishel]

You were strict.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yes. And. And then on top I had long hair in a ponytail. I have these cheekbones. It looks. Oh, my gosh. I look so dang arrogant. And then in the package. Yeah, I'm a three time world champion. And.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Oh, my gosh. It was a very humbling experience. And season two was amazing because of the learning lessons from season one.

[Danielle Fishel]

I see. Do you. Was that attitude that you had in season one, was that something that. Is that what you were like as a coach generally, or was it something put on for the TV show?

[Louis Van Amstel]

Well, that's. That's a twofer. So the first portion is that for me, if you tell me you want to be a champion, national or world champion, then I'm going to treat you as such. Not in being nasty, but okay, here are the goals, and I'm going to hold you accountable. But that's what the stars. I mean, you guys, I mean, I respect you so much. You put yourself out there, you're a working actress, you can control your work, and here you are putting yourself on the chopping block potentially. And so I, I respect Every and all celebrity for doing that. But for me as a coach, I realized, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is not your bread and butter. This is your hobby. No, in a way, it is your bread and butter because you put yourself out there as a celebrity. But I was never. I don't think I'm arrogant. It's just. I hold you accountable.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Louis Van Amstel]

But then the way the questions are asked, you know, when you have your Thursday interviews, you have to be mindful on how you say it, because everything can and will be used against you. And that's not on the producers. That's on us to be mindful on. You know, what you say in terms of. In terms of the. The bad boy status. I think they tried. And then, you know, Max came on board in season three, and I guess he took the role. But I don't want to play a role. I've always said I'm a chameleon. As a coach, as a teacher, as a dancer. Expect the unexpected. I've said it in so many interviews because I. For example, if you and I were partnered, I don't know you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

So maybe I have one approach. Well, then that approach doesn't work. Okay, a different approach. Maybe you're a visual learner, audio learner. Maybe you're just slow in picking up. So the first three days take it a little easier. And then when I see you pick it up, boom. Then we're going to spend the hours on really diving deep. And others say, let me. Give me. Give me everything on that first day, and then slow down towards the end of the week. So they tried. And I think that's part of the reason I'm being really frank that I've not been on all seasons, because that was never my choice not to be. I just don't like being put in a box. I don't like labels. So I also don't want to be called the gay dancer or the I am me. There's so many more sides to me. And so, yeah, I am. You expect the unexpected. That's really my coaching philosophy, because I don't know who I am partnered with.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally. It's funny, we interviewed Max as well, and Max said something similar about coming onto the show. And he said, you know, when I joined the show, I was told your goal was to get this celebrity to be a trained dancer. And he said. And so I came in very much with, like, if you want to be a star dancer, you're gonna have to do all of these things. And he said, and then of course, over time, you realize, like these celebrities, it's impossible for them to become in 10 weeks, 11 weeks. You can't possibly learn all the things you need to learn. And he said, you know, so I realized that maybe my approach wasn't working and that that really wasn't the hook of the show. So it's interesting to hear you say something similar that like, you know, they told me I was taking a celebrity and wanted to make them a national champion. Well, of course, I, I have to hold you accountable to that.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yeah. And, and of course, it, again, it depends on the celebrity. I can give you two examples. In season nine, I had Kelly Osborne.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

No dance experience. There was a lot of baggage, emotional baggage that we had to go through. So that was one step at a time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Very slow going. And she made the final. So it doesn't mean you can't make the final when you're a non dancer, but you have to approach it differently from a dancer. And when we lose our patience, you can hold all the pros accountable because that's on us. Because a good coach never loses their cool. You can be frustrated, but you cannot lose your patience. It's not. Well, you're not getting it. You're not getting it. Well, that means us as pros, we have to dig deeper, change our strategy until you get that hook where your celebrity really feels. Oh, I'm growing. And then in the all star season, I had Sabrina Bryan. I had that season the best dancer of the season. But hip hop, trained, cheerleading, everything is slice and dice. Bam, boom. And I love Sabrina. So it was my goal in that one I put on my coach's head and I said. And this was also discussed with with Sabrina, look, you are the best dancer. And that can backfire. It did in season six with Marx. Week six, three, ten voted off and she was willing to go do the work, but I made her go for that lowering and the he leads and the posture up and the chest up. And you know all about it now.

[Danielle Fishel]

I do. I do. And I, I never expected to love it nearly as much as I do. I just, it's shocking to me. Well, thank you. I do. I just love it so much. And you as a coach, hearing what you have to say about what it means to be a good coach, all I can picture in my head is my dear Pasha who is every single day consistent. There's never a day where I have to wonder what kind of a mood he's going to be in or adjust what, how I'm feeling or doing based on something that's going on with him. He is a total professional. He is always committed. He's always prepared. He's always ready to work. He doesn't. He gives me space to have my feelings about something. But he's never. He's very quick to just sit there and let me have the experience and then go, okay, it's time to. It's time to get back on now. He's the most patient human being, I mean, maybe I've ever met in my entire life. I can't imagine having been partnered with anybody else. So I really feel like I lucked out the season.

[Louis Van Amstel]

You hit the jackpot.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I know.

[Louis Van Amstel]

As I mentioned earlier, I know every single pro dancer on the show, probably 80%. I was the coach coach growing up. So I have to preface that I like most and love a few. I mean, like, there's no tomorrow. I never actually worked with Pasha or Danielle, but I've seen them grow up and they are not just Pasha, but also Danielle, the most grounded couple. And they've been on the show now for many seasons and it hasn't changed them as humans. But also where you hit the jackpot, Pasha is had to always get it from hard work. And Danielle that. That is such a natural, gifted, naturally gifted beast. I mean, and everyone can see it. And he just worked, worked, worked. And also they did 10 dance. So they're especially Pasha. He's equal in the standard ballroom dances as is in the Latin dances. And on top, he taught a lot of pro am which is an amateur dancing with the pro, such as passion. They compete. He has a lot of teaching experience too. So you hit the jackpot on the kindness as a human, but also has a lot of different ways on how he can approach that. He is successful with you. And I just. I love for me, kindness is number one.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

If you're a kind human being and you are grounded, then you have my respect. And if you are on top of great dancer, a teacher, then you've made it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And these two are wonderful people.

[Danielle Fishel]

Couldn't agree with you more.

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[Danielle Fishel]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

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[Danielle Fishel]

I know you have been watching this season both on TV and you've been in the ballroom and there has been a lot of talked about that. This season is a stacked cast. It's become a large part of the discourse on surrounding the show. Considering you were there for its genesis. What are your thoughts on the conceit of Dancing with the Stars and celebrities who have prior dance experience?

[Louis Van Amstel]

Well, especially in the early years I was really frustrated when half the cast had dance experience and we are the ones as the pros that have the non dancers. But then I grew to like it more. Because for me, if you have a non dancer, that means that celebrity represents the majority of the viewers watching.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And they live vicariously through that celebrity. And that's why people like a Kelly Osbourne, Bobby Bones, Andy Richter this season, they make it far because they just move slightly. But also, I. We had conversations. I've had conversations with Dina Katz, executive director and casting director, like, hey, why can we not do a season with all non dancers? Well, what would the show look like visually?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And there you got me as a. As a producer myself, I had to. Yeah. Thank you for explaining. And it wasn't really like, why are you doing this to me? No. It was more sincerely wanting to know why. Why do they do that? And I get it. And also, again, Andy Richter, there were quite a few dancers, if not every single one that have gone home already, are better dancers than Andy. And somehow the people at home keep voting him, and even the judges give him low scores. So it's not that the judges are helping him either. It's really. It's really the people at home that are voting. And then there's the other question that comes from here. Well, we shouldn't have the people at home voting because, look, otherwise, hey, Andy would have been long gone home. Yeah. But then we wouldn't have a show on tv.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

It's all about ratings and voting. And you just. You are in the season that really has come back so strong. Over 55 million votes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Number one show again on TV. I mean, so I hope that the viewers understand that it's hard to just have non dancers celebrities or do a season with all dancing celebrities.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Wouldn't it be fun if Jennifer Grey would come back? Nicole Scherzinger, Vindi Irwin, maybe get Paul Abdul? Wouldn't that be a fun season? But they won't do it. I don't think they would do it. But anyway, this is a fantastic season, and it's the diversity that makes it special.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're right. That's exactly what it is. The dichotomy of watching Andy Richter versus watching Whitney Levitt and being impressed with both, you know, for different reasons. Like, with it, it's nice in one night to be able to run the full gamut and just to vote on what it is that makes you happy. I thought it was really smart when Andy said that a producer told him that they ask you to vote for your favorite dance, not the best dance. And so, you know, that is the, the, the joy of America having a vote is who do you Want to see more from. It doesn't have to be the best. It just means who do you want to see again? And that's where they have a lot of power.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Two things on that one I really want to share so on. So you think you can dance. Season one on Fox, that was to find the best dancer. And that was the emcee was considered the best dancer. They changed it in season two. We're looking for your favorite dancer. Same thing. Because they realized, oh, the judges choose one to be the best, but then the audience chooses another because it's their favorite and not the best answer. And it's. And also to quote a famous hockey coach, he said, I am not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right players. And to me, that is kind of similar. We're not looking for the best dancer to win the show. We're looking for the favorite. And hopefully the best dancer is also the favorite, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yep. But, well, you know, there it is.

[Danielle Fishel]

As looking back on your time on the show, if you had to select one of your famous partners to say this is the one you'd make a highlight reel of regardless of where you placed, who would you say is your highlight reel? Partner. Partner.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Easy. Kelly Osbourne, season nine. Really underdog. She was the Seabiscuit. She was the one that I think just on paper she was going to be the first one going home.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And what I find, and I'm, I not. I always get emotional when I talk about Kelly because it was. Even though it's 2009, that journey has not only affected her or maybe changed her life, it has changed mine. I started building my confidence. I know I'm a good teacher. I know I'm a good coach. I mean, heck, I coached many of the ones on the show. But it's, it's, that's the world I'm in. This is tv. To affect and help someone in front of millions and then for her to really listen to what you have to say. And we also had arguments. There were. I mean, she danced on a broken toe. Her dog died during the show. I mean, there were so many things that we had to deal with. And then to be in the final because of the audience, not because of the judges. Yeah, the judges score were always kind of lower and lower. And to see her blossom and even now looking at her, even after the show, there were ups and downs with her. Even in the press, you could read it. But in the long run, it's how she dealt with it and how she's dealing with it. And now she's engaged. She has a baby of her own, which is growing up. I mean, quickly. That will be probably the most transformative partnership I think has ever been on the show. And I am proud to have been her partner. And that almost didn't happen because I believe. And if you have Mark after me, I think originally Kelly was partnered with Mark Ballas, with Mikey, and. And I believe not that she said, look, I'm engaged to another guy. She's not engaged to the same guy now. Yeah, she wants someone gay. She wants safety. That there would be no kind of. Well, I don't know. I think maybe if you're married and you're doing the show, would you maybe, you know, feel the same way that you kind of want to either be safe or be with another married pro that's on the show? You know, it's. But anyway, so it almost didn't happen. And it did happen. And, yeah, that was the most memorable, I believe, for me.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love that. I love that even just to see you get emotional talking about it, because I. I feel as though the show has been completely transformative for me as well, and so has Pasha and Daniella in my life. So I'm. I'm. It's. It's always nice when I see that those feelings very real and you're still close and it's not just something that's only going to last for the, you know, 11 weeks. The show goes on, that it really does actually change your life in the way it feel like it feels as of right now, like it has. So thank you for sharing that with me.

[Louis Van Amstel]

It's. It's. It's wonderful. And. And for the viewers, how many of you, as celebrities say, this has changed my life, and then a lot of people probably roll their eyes. Yeah, of course you're saying that. No, it's true. It has also changed our lives as pro dancers, the opportunities we've gotten. And besides, maybe two celebrities of my 11, I am still in contact with and I'm still friends with. It's not a lot because I don't live in la, so it's. It's a little different. But when I'm in la, Priscilla Presley and I, we always have dinner. Lisa and I, Rena, we talk back and forth and. Or we like each other's posts and. And also you might become friends with other pro dancers that are not your partner or other celebrities on our side. It's. It's really wonderful what this show has done and what it can mean to people watching.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love it. You had a lot of close calls, although you've never won a mirrorball like my partner, Pasha. Lisa Rinna came in third. Monique Coleman in fourth. Niecy Nash in fifth. Was there anyone in particular that you were partnered with other than Kelly, who of course you made it to the final with, but was there another partner that you thought, I can. I'm gonna win with this one?

[Louis Van Amstel]

All Star season. Yeah, Sabrina Brian. I also wanted for her to break the week six elimination from season. I think it was six with Mark. And then ironically, we got eliminated week.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And this is a message especially for your fans and whoever's favorite is still in. Vote, vote, vote. Because in week five, we had three tens with our Cinderella Disney night walls. Then week six, we had three tens with our Roomba and we had, I believe, three tens with our group dance. So we went out on with 60 out of 60. And, and, and, and people think you're safe when you get tens. You're safe. You are not safe. Yeah, you're not safe. And I hate to say that because I really, I mean, Andy is. Looks such like, like such a nice guy. But say you get high scores and people think, oh, you, you're safe because you get these high scores? No, because a person like Andy gets so many votes that even his lower scores can mean you're going home. So make sure you vote, ladies and gentlemen, vote, vote, vote.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. That is. I interviewed Sabrina at the very start of this podcast and I asked her that question. I was just straight up, I said, do you think the reason you went home is because people saw those high scores and just assumed that you were safe? Because it's, it's really the only explanation is that people go, oh, I don't need to worry about her. But these other people with lower scores, I need to boost them up. And then, lo and behold, you don't get any votes.

[Louis Van Amstel]

No, no, it's. It's true. It's really. People need to vote. And I think the message is clear. And people are voting. I mean, 55 million votes. It's a lot of votes. Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Looking back on all your seasons, do you have any thoughts on specific strategies to win? Whether it's how you arrange when you do, which dance or song choices. What are some of the strategies to winning as you see it now?

[Louis Van Amstel]

All of the above. I was Mr. Strategy. And also when you have a non dancing celebrity, you have to be very strategic in every decision. So. But one. And this is where being a veteran in this business helps, for example, music. So many younger pros, and maybe now they've learned the lesson. They would find music maybe a week, two weeks before the show. And then if the song that they really want is already chosen by someone else, I'm sorry, so and so already chosen it. So I would have 150 songs on a list divided by dances, discuss with my celebrity. First day. Now what they're doing is you are now getting a package to fill out. So now the show does it. But in the early years it was on us. So I would make sure that. Yeah, no, I already already asked for it. Oh, I already asked for it. Oh, then. And of course then when I'm eliminated, they would have a lot of songs for others to use. But I didn't at first. It would frustrate me. But at least with the strategy of music, we mostly had the songs we wanted because I put in the effort. So that's, that's one thing. And when it comes to the dances in close hold, like quick step and tango, the rules are being bent very much by the younger pros. And the judges don't always call it out, which I to me, they need to be held accountable. You're allowed 10 seconds in open hold in the beginning and at the end with tango and quick step. So I want these dances out of the way as early as possible. Get it out of the way. So later in the season, you want to have the dances where you can lift. You want to have the dances that are more exuberant, like the cha cha or the jive, the higher energy or the heartfelt dances. But also depends on who. How is my celebrity perceived? If she is perceived as more hardcore, then I need to work on the softer side. So I want to have those dances later in the season. So I was glad with Kelly, I kept Roomba for as late as possible and then really show the heartfelt side, the heartstrings play on the heartstrings. So I mean, I could. There are so many more strategies, but the dances get those boring dances that you have to stay in close, hold out of the way.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really smart. Really super smart.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Well, you know, I think so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Are you looking Forward to the 20th anniversary show? Will you be in the audience again?

[Louis Van Amstel]

Oh, I will be in the audience. I cannot wait. It's, you know, I've done 11 season out of 34.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And I think I'm one of the pros that have come back over time. And coming back again, I did three years ago. I was back on the show. So I've kind of been part of every single change or with a new or a different showrunner or they went into a different direction and then it came back. So I've been part of that show with the whole roller coaster of all 34 seasons. And it's so wonderful to see after 20 years, 34 seasons, the show is back number one, the most votes ever. And so, Danielle, I thank you and your fellow celebrities for bringing it back to where it is right now, because it's ultimately the celebrities that are on the show that are bringing back the viewers time and time again. So thank you. It's. It's exciting because you've made it so far.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

You have nothing to lose. So you can take the nerves and give up, or you take the nurse, the nerves and switch on, use the adrenaline and say, people at home watch this and it's. You have nothing to lose every time you make it past week five, in my opinion, as a person that does not have a lot of dance experience but a lot of acting experience, you've done your job. You're going for honors now you're going for cum laude. So whatever they throw at you, enjoy it and see it as they come on. Bring it on. Bring it on.

[Danielle Fishel]

I really love that advice. I have been. I'm just gonna. Full transparency. I've really been struggling this week. We have our team dance. I'm a team captain, and the team dance is amazing. I picked, if I have to, if I do say so myself, I picked an all star team. And it didn't come randomly. I had a full strategy going into it, and my strategy paid off. And I was thrilled with the. With my choices. But my choices were such that I am by far the weakest, at least female link on the team, which is never fun to feel like. Okay, everybody's picking this up so fast, and I really need this to slow down.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Yeah, you gotta let it go because you're. You're not the weakest link. You are the person that came in with the least amount of dance experience. So the pressure is on them, not you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay?

[Louis Van Amstel]

Everyone knows you have grown from week one to now leaps and bounds, and you have the likability factor and you have no problem with the character of the dance. Focus. Regardless of who is in your team, what can you control? The only thing you can control is your movements, the involvement in the movement, listening to the music and do your part. That's what you can control. You can't control, oh, how the judges look at you or What? The comments they're making. Oh gosh. You. It's. We can go psycho when you listen to everything and everyone. Read social media or even the looks of the other dancers in your team. Horse caps on. Focus on you and Pasha and your work. That's all you can do.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Store, Limu Imu and Doug.

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[Louis Van Amstel]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Louis Van Amstel]

Liberty. Liberty Savings.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4, shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Danielle Fishel]

I would like to ask you, have you. Have you seen all of my dances? And if so, even if you haven'. What if you could give me one piece of advice moving forward? What would you say to me and how I can improve and how I can do better next week and for as long as I'm able to remain on the show?

[Louis Van Amstel]

So I have seen them all.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And I was wondering if you were going to ask me this question. And like I said, I kind of already fed into it a little bit earlier. You have the likability factor. You could clearly tell you're an actress, so you can. Like a chameleon. You step into these different dances. If I. Like I said, you're. You've come so far already. It's like an onion that you peel off every single week and you show a little bit more of yourself. I would say rip off all the layers that are left. It's like when you have your hair tied and loose. Take off your. Throw that loose and.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Louis Van Amstel]

It's the emotional self. Your personal, emotional self, I feel, is held back.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Because you're a kind person. You're a person. And we haven't met, but it resonates. You can tell through the screen you're a kind person. The relationship you have with. With Pasha. But I would say f. Kind.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Go for it. And. And if you question if you could make the final or not or you could win the show, everyone that's still in can win. So you focus on the work. You focus on what dance do you have this week? Personal, temporary, contemporary. Take off all these layers and go raw, raw, raw. Don't go in. Well, maybe people won't like this. Or, oh, well, maybe this might screw it up. Or that lift that's coming. Oh, my gosh, that lift.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Commit, commit, commit to the work.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And if there's any doubts, talk about it with Pasha. Whatever. Doubt. There is talk. But for me, you. You've earned the spot. And you can. You deserve to be in that final as. As much as every other one because you came with much less dance experience. Maybe zero.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Zero. I think I danced at my wedding last.

[Louis Van Amstel]

There you go. So remind yourself of that. You have to tell yourself, too. Look at what I've done in eight weeks time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Louis Van Amstel]

While the others have had dance training for years. And you can tell. You can tell and. And you know, therefore, take out all the stops and commit, Commit, commitment.

[Danielle Fishel]

I appreciate your advice more than you know. It's been. It's been my work for this week. It's been exactly what Pasha's been saying to me, too. So the fact that I have two of you who I consider to be absolute legends and the world does as well, I know that. That you are right. And so I will be thinking of you. Today in my rehearsal, I'm going to try and peel back all those layers of the onion and be my emotional, raw self. I do have a perfect song for it. A perfect story we're telling through it. So is the week to do it. If I'm ever going to do it, this is the week.

[Louis Van Amstel]

May I ask, what is the song.

[Danielle Fishel]

In the story we are doing? Dream on by Aerosmith because it's rock and roll hall of fame week and dream on is one of my all time favorite songs. It's also one of Pasha's all time favorite songs. And the story that I'm talking about, which is ultimately why I think this week has been difficult for me, is I. We are telling the story about how difficult it can be to be a woman in soc, where we are somehow always too much and also never enough. No matter what choice you make, whether it's working outside the home or working inside the home, if you choose to work outside, you're selfish and your children need you and where's their mother? And if you work inside the home, then you are boring and you don't have interests. And if you get botox and fillers, then you're not aging gracefully. And if you age gracefully, then you look old and ugly. And if you are too thin, you're told to eat a burger, and if you gain weight, you're told to get off the couch. And there's just really, it feels like there's no winning. And having been in the public eye and on TV since I was 10 years old, I have been, you know, under a microscope and my choices have been scrutinized and I'VE made terrible mistakes. And, you know, there. There's a lot. There's a lot there. And the story is kind of about how you can quiet the outside noise and dream your own dreams and live life to the fullest. Use that negativity maybe to rise above, because you never know when you're going to dance your last d or have your last day. And so that's the story. And it has been a difficult week for me because I have been really resistant to the dance. I've been. And I've been blaming it on things like I'm not good at it or I don't like this move, or like, I've just been really resistant. And then it hit me yesterday after having a really bad rehearsal. And of course, it's no fault of Pasha's. Pasha is the same. He is every day. I was just in a really down place, and it. It just hit me last night that, like, I'm resistant to it because it's. It's triggering so many things in me. It's triggering a lot of negative self talk. It's triggering disordered eating. It's like triggering all of these things that are so personal. And instead of me leaning into it and embracing that in the dance, it's making me not want to do it. So it's been a rough week, but I think, like, the fact that I realized it made me wake up today and think one so happy to be talking to you and for you to have given me the advice you gave me, because it really lands and resonates. And also just, you know, it's very clear that this is striking an emotional chord for me, and there's a reason for that. And this dance is actually special and means something.

[Louis Van Amstel]

So thank you for sharing, Danielle. And this is a beautiful, heartfelt moment for you and just having this conversation. This is why I loved or love doing dancing with the stars. This is where friendships are born in these moments. And you have been on TV since the age of 10. You have kids. Right. So your mom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

You're a wife who can say in there, whatever age you are.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Have your success. And so let these triggers be the reasons why you unpeel that onion. And in a metaphorical way, on Monday, jump off that cliff.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And fly. So live it. Take. And when I said take the hair, throw it now. When you said you have that song.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Louis Van Amstel]

There are moments where you just. I mean, dream on dream. And you have dreamed, but you also have made a reality. So it's kind of nostalgic that all these triggers from the past.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Tuesday is going to be your. Your biggest therapy session.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. That is what it feels like you.

[Louis Van Amstel]

For you and the world happens to have a seat.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

To watch you experience that. And I. This is to me why Dancing with the Stars is still on the air after 20 years. Because of your frankness, your rawness of just sharing this for. I don't know how many people click in, but it's millions.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And you have no problem showing you the Raw Danielle. So on Tuesday, you know what to do. Yes. Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. I. This conversation has meant so much to me and you are just a true legend. And I thank you so much for spending your time. I can't wait to see you next week. And I. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take your advice on Tuesday and I will truly, I'll be thinking of you on Tuesday when. When it goes the way I hope it goes, I will have in the back of my mind. Thank you, Louis.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And you have each other. You have Pasha and. But ultimately trust you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Louis Van Amstel]

And you. You. You're gonna do fantastic. Raw. The Raw Danielle is coming out on Tuesday. Thank you for having me. I really enjoy doing this and you've done amazing this season. And I can't wait to watch Tuesday night. Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

And we have to make a point to actually meet next week. I need to. I will not rest until I have been able to give you a hug.

[Louis Van Amstel]

I promise I will come find you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Thank you. For sure. Thank you, Danielle. And enjoy rehearsal later.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. I will. Bye. Danielle with the Stars produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer, editor and engineer Tara Sudbaksh. Theme song by Justin Segel. Follow us on Instagram at daniellewithstars and vote for me.

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[Danielle Fishel]

What kind of man would let this.

[Louis Van Amstel]

Happen to his family? Inspired by shocking actual event.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm working on a story about the Murdochs their abuses of power are playing out in real time.

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Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark.

[Louis Van Amstel]

It's only cheating if you get caught.

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is an I Heart Pod.