Erica Montolfo-Bura Meets World

Summary

Pod Meets World: Erica Montolfo-Bura Meets World Released on July 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Pod Meets World, hosted by Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle, and Ryder Strong from iHeartPodcasts, the hosts welcome Erica Montolfo-Bura, a distinguished writer renowned for her impactful contributions to the beloved sitcom Boy Meets World. The conversation delves deep into Erica's journey from her initial career aspirations to her pivotal role in shaping the show's narrative and characters.

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Erica's Career Path

Erica Montolfo-Bura shares her unconventional path into the world of television writing. Initially, she pursued a degree in marketing at UCLA and secured a prestigious position in the private sector, working for companies like Merrill Lynch and Phillips. However, her passion for writing led her to take a bold step:

[21:33] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "I decided to leave it all behind to join the Walt Disney Writers Fellowship program, which set me on the course to Boy Meets World."

The fellowship, described by Erica as more competitive than Harvard, became her gateway into the entertainment industry, allowing her to transition from a corporate environment to a creative one.

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Contributions to Boy Meets World

Joining Boy Meets World in its sixth season, Erica became the sole Black writer on the show, bringing a fresh perspective to the writers' room. Her contributions were pivotal in diversifying the show's narrative and ensuring authentic representation.

[21:47] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "Being the only Black writer, I wanted Angela to be a character who wasn't defined solely by her ethnicity but as one of the kids, just like everyone else."

Erica penned significant episodes, including "Poetic License," "Ode to Holden Caulfield," and "Resurrection," which are celebrated for their depth and emotional resonance.

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Character Development: Angela’s Authenticity

One of Erica's most significant contributions was shaping Angela, the show's first Black female character. She emphasized creating a character who seamlessly integrated into the group's dynamics without being stereotyped or tokenized.

[29:01] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "I wanted Angela to be just another girl in the group, not someone defined by her race. It was about letting her be herself and fostering genuine friendships."

This approach allowed Trina McGee-Hawkins, who portrayed Angela, to explore her character's complexities without restrictive guidelines, resulting in a beloved and relatable character.

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Relationship Dynamics: Shawn and Angela vs. Cory and Topanga

Erica thoughtfully navigated the romantic storylines within the show. She contrasted the destined relationship of Cory and Topanga with the more tumultuous connection between Shawn and Angela.

[33:08] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "Cory and Topanga were always meant to be together, like Romeo and Juliet with a happy ending. Shawn and Angela, on the other hand, had their ups and downs, which made their relationship more complex and engaging."

Erica highlighted how Shawn's poetic nature and Angela's grounded personality created a dynamic that resonated with fans, offering a contrast to the more straightforward romance of Cory and Topanga.

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Writers' Room Environment and Mentorship

The episode shines a light on the collaborative and nurturing environment within the Boy Meets World writers' room, thanks to Michael Jacobs, the showrunner. Erica recounts how Michael mentored young writers, including herself, by involving them in every aspect of the show’s production.

[53:30] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "Michael was an incredible mentor. We were involved from casting to editing, which was an invaluable experience that shaped our careers."

This hands-on approach not only enhanced the writers' skills but also fostered a sense of ownership and pride in their work, contributing to the show's enduring legacy.

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Legacy and Impact

Reflecting on her time with Boy Meets World, Erica expresses immense pride in her contributions and the show's lasting cultural impact. She credits the show's success to its ability to address real-life issues while maintaining humor and relatability.

[72:46] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "Boy Meets World remains the most relatable thing I've ever worked on. Its ability to connect with audiences across generations speaks volumes about its quality and the team behind it."

Erica's work has continued to influence her career, leading her to roles as a writer, producer, and showrunner on various other successful television series.

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Final Thoughts and Future Endeavors

As the conversation wraps up, Erica reflects on the importance of diversity in the writers' room and its impact on storytelling. She emphasizes the need for authentic voices to tell varied stories, ensuring that all characters are well-rounded and relatable.

[64:12] Erica Montolfo-Bura: "Representation matters, not just for diversity's sake but for creating richer, more authentic narratives that resonate with everyone."

The hosts commend Erica for her trailblazing work and her dedication to fostering inclusive storytelling. They express hope for continued progress in the industry, inspired by her experiences and insights.

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Conclusion

This episode of Pod Meets World offers an intimate glimpse into Erica Montolfo-Bura's influential role in Boy Meets World. Through her journey, listeners gain valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of bringing diverse characters to life and the enduring power of thoughtful, authentic storytelling. Erica's reflections serve as both inspiration and a testament to the importance of representation in media.

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Notable Quotes:

• Erica Montolfo-Bura [21:33]: "I decided to leave it all behind to join the Walt Disney Writers Fellowship program, which set me on the course to Boy Meets World."

• Erica Montolfo-Bura [29:01]: "I wanted Angela to be just another girl in the group, not someone defined by her race."

• Erica Montolfo-Bura [33:08]: "Cory and Topanga were always meant to be together... Shawn and Angela had their ups and downs, which made their relationship more complex and engaging."

• Erica Montolfo-Bura [53:30]: "Michael was an incredible mentor. We were involved from casting to editing, which was an invaluable experience that shaped our careers."

• Erica Montolfo-Bura [64:12]: "Representation matters, not just for diversity's sake but for creating richer, more authentic narratives that resonate with everyone."

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting Erica's pivotal role in Boy Meets World, her approach to character development, the collaborative spirit of the writers' room, and the lasting impact of her work on both the show and her career.

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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Visit your local CVS store or cvs.com extra big deals to shop this week's deals. So, as you all know, when we first started the podcast and throughout most of the early part of the podcast, I had a dream. And it was a dream that I think I have to let go now because it never came true as much as I tried to manifest it. And as you're all aware, I have yet to play a man who left the big city to go back to run his family's small Christmas tree farm.

[Will Friedle]

You wanted to be a Hallmark hunk.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't care if I was the hunk or the bad guy or even just the local cop.

[Jensen Karp]

Aren't the guys usually in the town and it's a woman who comes back?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, she's usually gone for some reason.

[Ryder Strong]

It can happen. I'm trying to break the stereotypes, Ryder. I'm trying to create a new paradigm, but whatever. But we all know that hasn't happened because I've been watching Hallmark, and so far I haven't been in any of the movies I've seen.

[Will Friedle]

No, that's true. That's true. You didn't just appear on your own TV once, right?

[Ryder Strong]

I was like, wait a second, I'm not in this movie. So I'm changing my dream up because I have a new obsession, which is a wonderful television program called Love Island. Are you both aware of Love Island?

[Jensen Karp]

I have probably doing a lot of work here, but yeah, sure, let's.

[Ryder Strong]

You're right. Magically wonderful is what I should say.

[Will Friedle]

I have heard of it. I have never seen an episode.

[Jensen Karp]

I have never seen an episode.

[Ryder Strong]

So you're missing out, because whether you watch Love island, us, uk, Australia, it's amazing. It's incredibly beautiful. People who are very scantily clad the entire time, no matter what they're doing, and they just keep swapping partners like it's the 70s at a key party. It's really amazing. But the best part of the show is there's A voiceover guy who's, like, there to be the comedic voiceover guy. That's his whole part. I mean, it's not even. He's not even trying to be ironic. He's just really funny. That's my new dream, is to be the funny voicemail.

[Jensen Karp]

You're well suited for that.

[Will Friedle]

I know, right?

[Ryder Strong]

I've got a face for radio.

[Jensen Karp]

Is he. Is he making jokes or just out. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

No, he's making jokes about them the whole time. Like, you know, for instance, one of the ones we loved to watch was Love Island, Australia. And one of the characters is named Jackson and it was spelled J, A, X, S, O, N. So the guy would always announce, like, and now we'll cut to Jackson with an axe. You know, like, stuff like that. That is just the most.

[Jensen Karp]

Do you think it's all written for.

[Ryder Strong]

Him or do you think, oh, geez, Jensen's popping. This means something.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

How do I break this to Will?

[Ryder Strong]

Daniel?

[Will Friedle]

I don't know. I was just. I was going to try to figure out how to do it.

[Ryder Strong]

What?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

I was offered that job.

[Ryder Strong]

How do you turn down the mad.

[Danielle Fishel]

That magic.

[Will Friedle]

Because it's a smut show, Will.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

It's a smut show.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, yes, it is. Oh, smut me up, bro.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

When I was on the radio at krock, they reached out and wanted me to do it.

[Will Friedle]

They explained uk, right?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

No, no.

[Ryder Strong]

That is your biggest mistake in your life. Yeah.

[Jensen Karp]

And now you're.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

I knew it was going to be big. Yeah. I had told Danielle it's going to be on for seasons and seasons, but it was like. It wasn't. I wasn't interested in it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well.

[Ryder Strong]

Disrespect for you, Jensen, but my God, sir, that is the ultimate dream. Did you also turn around Hallmark movies? Were you gonna.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

No, no, just this one. But. But I will say I said it on the radio, right? I. I told this story on the radio that they asked me to do it and I didn't do it. And then the guy they have doing it kind of has a little kermity voice, like I do, so slightly.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, I can do Kermit.

[Ryder Strong]

That's not a.

[Will Friedle]

That's not.

[Ryder Strong]

I can do that.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

So can you do a Kermit verse, like, for diversity?

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow. We're.

[Ryder Strong]

We're in Love Island. This is like the best place you could possibly be.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, that kind.

[Ryder Strong]

I'll do it like that. If that's how they want it. I could do Piggy O. Kirby. I mean, however they want it, Jensen.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Well, then they said do you want the guy who took the job to come on Kevin Abina? We said no, but. But it was almost like they were going to Kermit's battling.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh my God. So if you still have that number, we'll talk because I don't want to take anybody's job but that guy.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

You'd been great. Well, 100% you're quicker than I am. That would have been great.

[Jensen Karp]

Do you. Are they writing the lines or is he just watching the playback and then getting jokes?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Writing lines.

[Ryder Strong]

That's. It's the ultimate job to watch the.

[Will Friedle]

Clips first so you know what the lines are that you're. Because like what if will or you came up with something better than what they have written?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Yeah, I think that's offered. I think. Yeah. I think they're looking.

[Ryder Strong]

I imagine they. It seems like a very conducive atmosphere to creativity and sex. So I think they would allow it. The ad libbing I think is part because the main guy who does most of them is. Is the Irish guy who's hugely funny. Owen. And it's just. I want to be the one. Did he believe you turned down that job?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Hold on. The Kermity guy isn't the US One anymore?

[Will Friedle]

No, he said it was for Australia.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh no, this is Austria. I don't know who does the American version, but I know. Was it Sarah Hyland? She. Is she still the currently the host?

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

She was the host then. Yeah. Ordo. Sorry. I think a girl named. A social media person named like Ariel or something was up for the job at that time. But I think it's all switched around. This is a lot. This is an old story.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, well, it's. I. Jensen.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, they asked him a long time ago at the season. Many, many, many seasons.

[Ryder Strong]

My dream job. It's my dream job.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Sorry.

[Ryder Strong]

Throwing it out.

[Will Friedle]

I have to look up who Love island us voiceover.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Oh, yeah. We should. We should get him in.

[Ryder Strong]

Who's it going to be? It's going to be Owen. I bet. I bet you they should.

[Will Friedle]

The narrator for Love Island USA is typically Matthew Hoffman, but for the current season seven, it is Ian Sterling.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

So yeah, the Kermity guy is the first one. Hoffman.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Yeah. I think the Ian Sterling might. They might have gone with the Irish guy who's just because he's got a ton of energy and hey, we talk about outsourcing our jobs all the time. So I think it'd be great to bring that back if he is Irish.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Will though Will them changing makes me Think they have some thoughts? They might. I mean, they might be open to next season.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. Would be a dream. I would dump you three so fast.

[Will Friedle]

Wow. Thank you.

[Ryder Strong]

To be on that show. It would be like we never knew each other, because by that point, you're in the big time. Like, I wouldn't even look back at y' all and our friendship because Love Island, USA would be the best. It'd be the best.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. Good to know. Good to know what we mean to you, sir.

[Ryder Strong]

You mean a lot to me. Wait, I'm looking at your zoom name. Danielle.

[Will Friedle]

Danielle. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But wow. I can't believe Jensen turned down that job.

[Will Friedle]

I know. I didn't. I didn't remember because we've talked about this before, and I didn't remember that it was Love island, but I don't watch any of that stuff, so I don't know the. Namely addictive. No, I don't think it is.

[Ryder Strong]

It is. It is a dick, by the way. I would never dump you guys. I couldn't do it.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

You remember that they wanted to have a call with us. No, because I had said I didn't want to do it because it's just making jokes about people basically having sex on an island.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

And they were like, oh, it's not just that. And then I was like, oh, but it seems like it's just that. And then they said, well, we'd love to have a call. And then we didn't have the call with them. And then we watched it, and it was like, it's exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly what it is. Yeah, exactly. You're like, oh, but it is. We were right.

[Ryder Strong]

It's also breaking up on islands and then swapping partners. It's not just sex. And then they have games where they all have to kiss each other.

[Jensen Karp]

So there's very educational.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. There's a depth to. To Love island that you guys are just not understanding, I don't think. Because you're judging without really having delved into it in any way, shape, or form.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's true.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

Oh, well, they were very nice people, so I wish they hear this and call you.

[Will Friedle]

Will Friedle available for Love island voiceover? You're hearing it here first, folks. Welcome to pod meets world. I'm Danielle Fischl.

[Jensen Karp]

I'm Ryder Strong.

[Ryder Strong]

And I'm Will Friedle from Love Island. No, I won't do it like that. That'd be weird.

[Will Friedle]

Do your Kermit voice.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, yeah, just do it like Kermit. And welcome to Love Island. Maybe just put on a bikini and we can hang out. Hello, I am Matthew Mercer from Critical Role, a tabletop role playing show where a bunch of nerdy voice actors explore the fantasy world of Exandria. For each episode, I lead players Laura Bailey, Taliesin Jaffe, Ashley Johnson, Liam o', Brien, Marisha Ray, Sam Riegel, and Travis Willingham on an epic story shaped by rolls of the dice and dramatic choices. Now our three campaigns and other adventures are filled with action, mystery, wonder, heartbreak and lots of jokes along the way. So we hope you'll find something To Love on Critical 1. Follow the show or subscribe to listen on Stitcher, the SiriusXM app, or wherever you listen.

[Will Friedle]

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[Will Friedle]

Okay, summer highlights so far. Who's got one?

[Jensen Karp]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

One of my favorite highlights is being back on the road. Going back to Pod Meets World live and meeting all the fans again has been amazing.

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

How are you guys?

[Will Friedle]

Wherever you are? It looks so tropical.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm stunning.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's a whole vibe, guys.

[Will Friedle]

Where are you?

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm at home. This is. This is my, Like, I was doing a podcast too, before, and so this is my, like, you know, it's my vibe. It's a vibe.

[Will Friedle]

It's like, oh, I love it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Erica being fabulous and, you know, carrying on the torch for all the. The Boy Meets World people, right?

[Will Friedle]

Oh, I love it. It looks tropical.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm loving all of your vibes, too.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, thanks. I've got a very Boy Meets World heavy vibe over here.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love it, though.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Can I tell you, I was, like, watching, like, you know, to do my little research for our discussion today, all the episodes I've written, and I was like, oh, like, they're so cute. I mean, like, I'm like, I'm so proud of them. You know, it's like, we did our thing.

[Will Friedle]

As you should be. Yes. I mean, it is no small feat to keep a show on the air and to write 22 episodes in a season. Oh, my.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it doesn't even happen anymore, you know, like, now it's like you get eight and you're out, you know, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

10 if you're lucky.

[Jensen Karp]

But then also, not only that, but then to have a podcast 30 years later where people still want to talk about it, like, that's what.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's crazy at that point, Writer, like, literally when I, you know, I've gone on to work quite a bit after, you know, that was my first job. But to this day, whenever I say, oh, yeah, I was on, you know, my first job was Boy Meets World. It was like, I mean, like, they. They go nuts. It's everyone's favorite show. Everyone grew up with it. It's a cultural icon. So it's my proudest moment in retrospect.

[Will Friedle]

Well, we want to jump right into that first job experience. So let's start with a big decision you made in your life that led to Boy Meets World, your first writing job. Ever. You graduate UCLA with a degree in marketing. Right. And then you land a big private sector gig right out of college working for companies like Merrill lynch and Phillips. So what made you decide to leave it all behind to eventually just eat Kukaroo with Jeff Mannell for multiple.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God, Manel, That's. Yeah, he's my favorite person in the world, by the way.

[Will Friedle]

Absolutely sweetest.

[Ryder Strong]

All of ours.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. And he always tells me, I would always say to him, shut up, Manel. Like, that's my thing. Like, that's my catchphrase. Shut up, Manel.

[Will Friedle]

Shut up, Manel.

[Danielle Fishel]

But, yeah, it's literally. I call it like my. My cubicle moment. And I. And you probably don't know this because, like, I mean, you guys kind of went right into, you know, your calling early on, but you have this cubicle moment where you're sitting there being like, I can't do this for the rest of my. Like, I mean, you know, I mean, or 20 in my early 20s and just thinking, like, I can't sit in this cubicle for the next 50 years. You know, I mean, so I knew that, like, I want to do something else. And I was married at the time, so I, like, my ex husband was like, you know, what. What do you want to do? And I was just, you know, like, I don't really know, but I. I grew up in la, so I kind of have this access to, like, I knew about. And I wanted to be a writer because I was an English major. So I kind of knew that I could maybe dip my toe in that water.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I wrote, you know, a spec script or a couple spec scripts, thinking I was going to try to get a manager or an agent, and then ended up sending it to this Disney fellowship. And I got in, and in retrospect, now I found out that it's, like, harder to get in than Harvard. Like. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

And that just set me on the course. Like, I got, you know, met with Michael as a, you know, as a result of the fellowship, because at that point, they. They introduced you to different showrunners who were, you know, who had shows, you know, that were being, you know, done on the Disney lot or Disney Studios and. Or Touchstone, I think, at the time. You guys. All right, And. And, yeah, so I met with Michael and, like, got, you know, a job, and then the rest is history. I never looked back.

[Will Friedle]

And so where were we? Did you. Was your first year? Because were you on Boy Meets World starting on season five?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I was. I think I was Season six was my first year.

[Will Friedle]

So you did season six and seven.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, because I. I think technically, I was like, they wanted someone to be the voice of Angela. Right. Which is like, retrospect, I'm like, okay, well, that's like, you know, like, I could be the voice of everybody, which I was. But. But, you know, I think they were consciously looking for someone to represent. You know, Angela became a big character. So I came on the season that she came on, basically.

[Will Friedle]

Well, she came in in season five.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, so maybe I was. No, I think. I think. I think maybe she was. I think I came on the season after she came in.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, so you. Yeah, she.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, so season six is where you started. So you did the last two seasons.

[Danielle Fishel]

Last two seasons. So I'm like, on the adult seasons is what I call.

[Will Friedle]

Right, the adult seasons. Exactly. Miss that. Miss the childhood years.

[Danielle Fishel]

I did not miss him as a fan. I mean, I definitely was there every Friday night watching, but. But, yeah, as a writer, I was there.

[Ryder Strong]

Wait, were you really? So before you joined us, you had already seen the show?

[Danielle Fishel]

Are you kidding me?

[Will Friedle]

Of course.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, listen, for me, those are my kind of teenage years. You know what I mean? So I was like, that's like. Was my getting ready to go out, like, Friday night? Yeah, it's like, you're getting ready, you're taking a shower, you're putting makeup on, and you have it in the background. 100%.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, cool.

[Will Friedle]

That is so fun. So do you remember how many people were in the fellowship program with you?

[Danielle Fishel]

We. Well, there was two tiers, so they had a film. A film program, and they had a television program. So, like, you know, there maybe were five television people, and then five film people. So. And again, it was very competitive, and so I was really one of the ones to kind of, like, get staffed because you have to kind of have these meetings. And I remember, like, meeting with Michael, and, you know, I think. I think Manelle was in the meeting, too.

[Ryder Strong]

I just like, shut up, man.

[Danielle Fishel]

Now shut up, manow. But we just. I mean, you know, it was just. I just tell you guys, like, literally, again, coming from my cubicle to, like, meeting with these guys and then getting this opportunity. I just remember being in the writers room and just being like, this is like. I mean, this is the best.

[Will Friedle]

You know, I mean, what a dream come true.

[Danielle Fishel]

100%. And you just feel like. Like, this is like. Like what I'm meant to do. I. 100. You know, just felt very. And they were all so welcoming to me, too. So like, kind of all the guys took me under their wings as like, the, you know, the young writer, and it just was the best time ever, you know? And again, being on a show that I was already a fan of, you know, I'm like, what am I. This is crazy. Like, what am I doing here? I'm like, you know, I mean, it's, like, surreal.

[Ryder Strong]

And were you always, as you said, there was a film side and a television side. Were you always more of a television fan? So did you ever consider going into the film program, or were you just TV the whole way?

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, listen, I'm a writer, you know, like, across the board. So even, like, to this day, like, I still, you know, written movies as well, but, like, I've always been a television fan. Like, when I was a kid, again, Boy Meets World would be in the background when I was getting ready to go out. You know, like, my parents when we were growing up would have, like, you know, the TV. We all had TVs in our room. Like, we were never the family that was, like, you can't watch tv. We had TV on at dinner, watching, like, Tyler Moore or whatever, you know, so TV was always pervasive in our house and a part of, you know, my growing up. And to this day, like, I mean, I still like the background right now. I have, like, the Food Channel on.

[Will Friedle]

If we get boring, just go ahead.

[Danielle Fishel]

Watching Bobby Play right now. Guys, sorry.

[Ryder Strong]

Is it Boy Meets Grill, or is it. Which Bobby Fly show is it?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I do the. What is it?

[Ryder Strong]

Bebop Beat Bobby Flay. Gotcha.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, gotcha. No one's feeding Bobby Play right now, by the way.

[Will Friedle]

I want to get more into this meeting you had with Michael and possibly Manell. Do you remember? What do they ask you? Like, you're in a fellowship program, so you. They know you don't have a ton of experience. What. What is. What's that meeting? Like? What are they asking you? What's that interview like?

[Danielle Fishel]

It was. I mean, again, I. This is. And I think you guys probably all can relate to this too, because you can look back at your younger selves. I mean, like, how your progression in this business has been, and imagine, like, your first auditions, like, what was your mind space when you were first auditioning versus how is how you are now? So I was just kind of just like, young and, you know, and naive, and I was just like, hey, guys. You know, like, all enthusiastic, and I think they just liked my energy, you know? I mean, they also understood, and I think. And I. I'm very proud of the fact. I think, that I influenced, like, who Angela became. Because I will tell you another story. Like, once I got on the show, we would be in the writer's room, right. And so Michael would be. Because Michael. Michael did the typing. Like, he didn't. We didn't have a writer's. Just, like, he would.

[Will Friedle]

Like, he did the typing himself.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. So he would be like, okay. So Angela enters, and she says. And then he'd look at me. I'm just like. She says, hi. I mean, so I finally had a conversation with him, and I said, listen, I grew up in la, and I grew up in a very, like, you know, like kind of a bougie neighborhood. So, like, my. I grew up around, like, all different kinds of people. And so kind of like Angela did. Even though my parents. My father wasn't in the military, but I just kind of had, like, heart. Heart to heart with Michael. And I said, listen, I think Angela is like me. Like, she doesn't speak differently than these kids. She grew up with them. So I don't think there's any kind of ethnic, you know, ethnicity that needs to be, like, pervasive. And who she is. She's just one of the kids. And so I think that was very instrumental in the beginning of just letting Angela be Angela. And then we didn't have to lean into any kind of, you know, her being urban or anything like that. You know, I mean, I'm proud of that because I think, like, she's just like me. She, you know, she grew up in the Valley, whatever.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, right.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think they were very receptive to that. And that's. I. You know, I appreciate that.

[Will Friedle]

It's also so nice, then, for the actor, like, for Trina to get to really put her own spin and her own take on who Angela is without being told who she was in stage direction and in parentheticals, like, just really giving her agency over who the character is. Absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think, thank God you did that. Yeah. And again, I think. And not just me. I think that everyone, you know, again, Michael specifically, was very receptive to the idea that we, you know, we're all just people, you know, I mean, so we didn't mean. It's like Angela being, like, the black girl, you know, I mean, it wasn't like. And I. And I love that, especially at that time where there were so many different kinds of shows where there was, you know, leaning into, like, whatever kind of ethnic experiences like this. These are kids, and they grew up together, and they're Just. They're just all the same. No one's monolithic. You know what I mean?

[Jensen Karp]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So I just. I love that. That was, like. That our whole crew was, like, very diverse and, like, very. Just representative of what kids were at that time, you know, growing up together.

[Will Friedle]

Do you remember any specific conversations you had with Trina? Did you guys ever talk about the development of her character?

[Danielle Fishel]

Talk about it? Because, I mean, I don't know if people know that, you know, Trina was, like, we were, like, the same age. Okay. People don't realize that, like, Trina was older because she looked.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know. Yeah, but. But I think she was, like, married at the time. I.

[Will Friedle]

Married.

[Jensen Karp]

With three children.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

With three kids. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

A writer knows that, so that was, like, interesting. That writer's a teenager, like, and with, you know, dating an adult. But. But. But, yeah, I mean, we. We definitely talked about it, and again, she was. We were on the same page. I mean, she kind of just wanted to represent, you know, any girl as opposed to just a black girl. Do you know what I mean? And so I think. I think we're so successful that. And I think you guys were. I mean, just everybody melded together. It's like, I. When I watched my episodes, like, last night, I was like, oh, my God, this is. They're so sweet together. Everybody's great. And I think, you know, Topanga and Angela were so such great friends, too, like, if you believed it, you know, and you. You believe Sean and Angela, you know, I mean, like, everyone, like, was believable, and it was very sweet. I think it was, like, you know, indicative of, like, what we'd want to see now. I think it was ahead of its time as just, like, letting people be people, as opposed to having to, like, you know, double down on some kind of, like, you know, like, ethnicity or, like, you know, it wasn't political or anything like that. It was just, like, kids being kids and kids, you know, just engaging with each other. And I. And I think that's. I mean, I'm proud of that.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I mean, with all the live shows that we do and all the conventions that we do, it seems to almost be slightly overwhelming the number of people that prefer the couple of Shawn and Angela to Corey and Topanga.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, see that. I think that's not fair, but I do get it. I watched Poetic justice the other night, and that was, like, when that was a big Angela, Sean, love story, and that was my episode.

[Will Friedle]

Is that Season seven?

[Jensen Karp]

No, that's the one.

[Ryder Strong]

No, that's the One we just did. Holden Caulfield.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, that's Holden Caulfield.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. It's the second half of the name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. When everybody realized that Sean was a poet. But it was like, it was a good relationship episode. Like, they had. He had broken her heart. And then, like, she, you know, I love that. I was like, very bro rom comy, you know?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think people like that, that trajectory of how, you know, you wanted them to be together. I think that was a big part of that whole art because it was, you know, he was a guy who couldn't, you know, tell you how he felt. And so he had to write it. And then, you know, they were just. They were missing each other, and I loved that. And so that worked really well. But then, according to Painka, I mean, who doesn't love Cory and Topanga? Come on. I mean, I think we're all ready for that, but we kind of knew that they were going to be together. I think that's the difference. You, like, you didn't know that, right? That Sean was going to work out. I think everybody knew. Corey, Topanga, like, where else are they going to go?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

They're.

[Will Friedle]

They're stuck.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

No matter what.

[Ryder Strong]

Either of them. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

For better or worse, they are together forever.

[Danielle Fishel]

100%.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, moms, it's that time again. Back to school. And if you're anything like me, you want your kids to look great without spending a fortune. And that is why I have been hitting up JCPenney. They've got the trends your kids actually want to wear at prices you'll feel really good about. And yes, I may have grabbed something for myself, too. Don't look at me like that. I deserve it. Like this amazing, adorable matching set for little league days or exhausted nights. When I told my friends it was from JCPenney, they were floored. Seriously, if you've been sleeping on JCPenney, now is the time to wake up. Shop back to school and [e-mail] yes, JCPenney, life's messy.

[Matthew Mercer]

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[Will Friedle]

Parents let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, you're reheating the same cup of coffee for the third time. One kid can't find his water cup and the other is crying because their socks feel too spicy. That's why Mott's no Sugar Added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch made with real apples, no sugar added and the pouch? Genius. It's mess free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox or after school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about and a good source of vitamin C too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day I handed one to my kid during rush hour traffic. Instant silence. He went from feral raccoon to calm librarian in two squeezes flat. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] Summer is right around the corner and you know what that means.

[Jensen Karp]

Barbecues.

[Ryder Strong]

Sunny days by the pool with my shirt on.

[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Jensen Karp]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Jensen Karp]

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[Danielle Fishel]

We all have that piece. You know the one, the thing that so you you've basically become known for it. And if you don't have yours yet. You'll find it on ebay. Putting you on here, fashionistas.

[Will Friedle]

Ebay is where you'll find those.

[Danielle Fishel]

One of a kind.

[Will Friedle]

Can't stop researching.

[Danielle Fishel]

Stay up dreaming about pieces again and again.

[Matthew Mercer]

I'm talking that mew mew off the Runway.

[Danielle Fishel]

Red leather bomber, that cousteau Barcelona top with the cowboy on it, or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are on ebay and.

[Will Friedle]

They even offer millions of main character.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion.

[Matthew Mercer]

Ebay things people love.

[Will Friedle]

Talking about being able to have a show where kids are just kids and not doubling down on anything in particular relating to ethnicity or whatever. We have gone back and forth and had many dialogues about whether it was the way Angela and Sean's interracial relationship was dealt with or not dealt with. We see the pros and cons of both sides. Where do you stand on it? Looking back, do you. Are you happy that it was never really addressed or do you feel like in hindsight maybe it should have been?

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm happy it wasn't like kind of to what we were talking about. I just feel like the conversation I had with Michael, it's like, listen, I mean, I was married at the time to someone who wasn't black. And so for me growing up, again, I didn't have that like, you know, that need to be like put in a box as like a black woman. You know what I mean? I'm very lucky to grow up like, you know, west la, where people are liberal and we all, you know, we're like friends. And it's very similar to what, you know, we saw in Boy Meets World. And so I just. And again, it wasn't my edict at all, but I just kind of shared that with Michael and I'm like, I would love to see her just kind of be one of the crew and not have to even address the fact that she's black. And that's kind of what we decided to do. And to me, I think it's lovely. I think that's like, when I look back, it's like she's just another girl.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. And the occasional times it was mentioned, it was done in with a really funny joke.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, yeah, exactly. Well, exactly. And sometimes self deprecating where she's like, oh my God, these white people, you know.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I got to get more black friends.

[Danielle Fishel]

100%. Exactly. And that, I mean to me, I, I'm 100% proud of that and even, like her, her issue was more that she was, you know, an army kid. You know, her dad traveled a lot. And I thought that was more pertinent to her character. And that's a great character where she didn't get to bond with people because she had to move a lot. And the first group of people that she actually get to got to fit in with and. Which is, you know, kind of double entendre for her being the one black friend. But at the same time, it's more that she was an army friend. And so, like, she might have to move anytime because she's not used to getting close to people. So I thought it just all kind of, like, made sense.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, the other thing that we've noticed a lot, especially about season six, is it's really starting to take a very dramatic turn sometimes.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a melodramatic turn. It to the point of very special episode E. Oh, yeah, like an episode in the nicu. We'll get into that.

[Danielle Fishel]

But did you.

[Ryder Strong]

Do you remember when. You know, at the start of the season, because we've talked to some writers that remember arcing out the season or, you know, we get in, they're going to do a show bible for this season. Was there any specific discussion of, you know what. We're going to take this a little darker this season than we have in the past. I mean, do you remember any of that happening?

[Danielle Fishel]

Here's what I will say. And again, I think this is a testament to Michael. You guys know, I mean, like, that show is Michael's heart. You know what I mean? Like, very much like, whatever was going on kind of in his. I mean, Corey is Michael, obviously. And so whatever was going on in Michael's life kind of like, you know, made its way onto the show. And. And I think there was stuff going on, you know, that year that he wanted to address. And so we know, followed suit. So I think, you know, there was a very personal thing, I think, about the NICU episode, which I think was also my episode. And I was like, why am I writing? This is like one of my first episodes that I'm just like, oh, my God, I'm writing about a baby. Like, you know, whether or not it's going to make it.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

But I think that had happened to him. It was a personal experience. Yeah. Right.

[Jensen Karp]

So you don't remember. There was never. There was never, like, significant pushback within the room, like, because I imagine a bunch of comedy writers being like, this is getting a little heavy. Michael can we lighten it up? And we remember even saying that as actors. So. Yeah, I'm curious.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I think we were, I think we were all on the same page. But again, I think it was something that was very personal. I think he was going through that, that. And so a lot of the drama was, you know, an outlet for him on the show, you know what I mean? So he wanted to talk about things that he was going through. And you know, again, I think there was some pushback, but I think we kind of tried to like indulge him and let him work it out, you know, and so that again, I, I think of course being the youngest writer and the newest writer, that of course I get stuck with that episode.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. You're like, okay.

[Jensen Karp]

No one else wanted it.

[Will Friedle]

Thank you for tasking me with bringing this very personal and very heavy storyline.

[Ryder Strong]

It was a laugh riot. It was a laugh riot that episode.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think again, it's like Manell and those guys, like, give it to Eric. You know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

We don't want to do it.

[Danielle Fishel]

They didn't want to do it.

[Will Friedle]

Do you remember the first time you met all of us as a cast?

[Danielle Fishel]

I remember. God, I remember being at the pilot. First table read.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

And again, just being like, I can't believe I'm here. Like, I'm loving this. And it's like funny and everybody like, because again, I came in season six, so like everybody was already kind of a family.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so. And it was like a well oiled machine at that point. You know what I mean? So it was kind of coming into something. And again something that I watched, you know, basically growing up. And so it was just like, it was just lovely to be there. And you guys are all so sweet and, and I remember Danielle, you, you were dating, I think you were, you had a very famous boyfriend.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Lance.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

That didn't work out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Why? I mean. Yeah. What happened?

[Will Friedle]

Why?

[Ryder Strong]

We're not sure.

[Will Friedle]

You guys were so perfect, so perfect for each other.

[Danielle Fishel]

But I think I remember, like, I don't know if he was there for like one of the first things. I just remember just being like, oh, this is like, like, this is like. I'm. I'm so happy. I'm here for this. I am here for this.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I want to get into your first script. We've already mentioned it. Poetic License and Ode to Holden Caulfield. We talked a lot about this one, remembering that there was a lot of conversations around Ryder using his own poems. Do you remember anything about that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Did we use your pose, Writer? I think we did, yeah. Yeah, that was part of that. And I think that was so great because I think when we were doing it, it was like, well, you. You. You relayed to us like, hey, you were. I don't think we knew that you were writing poems, but I think we. Before we wrote the script or. But then you're like, hey, can I put my poems in? And I think everybody was like, oh, my God, hell yeah, you can put them in. This is great.

[Jensen Karp]

Yeah, No, I think Michael definitely knew because I was doing, like, poetry readings and stuff. And like, I remember the writer. Some of the writers coming to the readings. And so, yeah, Michael knew.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Jensen Karp]

At least Michael knew.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't know if everyone else did, but maybe. Maybe I was the one who didn't know. But I thought it was awesome. And it's like, even again, I rewatched it and I'm like, I know. I go, this poem is too good. I didn't write this. I'm like, this is good. I'm like, am I that great that I wrote this? But it makes sense that it was your stuff for sure.

[Will Friedle]

So funny. You were also the closest person in the room to college age. I mean, you were.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I was.

[Will Friedle]

You were not that many years out of college.

[Ryder Strong]

College.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. When we were on strike and I was walking with Will, and I was like, will, are we the same age? Like, was I, like, your age when I was on the show?

[Ryder Strong]

I think we are basically.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think basically, maybe I'm like a year or two older. But, yeah, that.

[Ryder Strong]

But, yeah, no, we were. We were essentially the same age.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's so funny. But, yeah, I was like. I was a baby, you know, I was like, again, right out of college, basically, and. But yeah, it was just watching that, I was like, oh, my God, these poems are so good. Like, writer. Those were amazing. Seriously, like, no, I was like, I'm taking credit for them for sure.

[Will Friedle]

I'm definitely going to add my name to those.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely. I mean, come on, now. They're on my IMDb right now.

[Erica Montalbo Burra]

That's great.

[Will Friedle]

Well, obviously this is a Shawn and Angela heavy episode. Did you enjoy writing to Sean Angst?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, well, I. Well, yeah, again, that was my first episode. I think that I have. And I remember also Matt, who unfortunately is not with us anymore.

[Will Friedle]

Matt Nelson. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, he was very. He was so sweet to me, too. Like, I remember giving him the episode when I wrote it. I gave it to him to be. Just for him to read and be like, tell me if this is embarrassing. Or should I not turn it in? You know, and he was like, no. And he also was like very much Sean.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

In the room. Like, we all kind of had our people. Like, he was Sean, I was Angela, you know what I mean? Like Michael's obviously Corey. And so we just had our little Personas. And so I just always liked, kind of like Matt and I would work out that relationship, you know what I mean? Because I just again, I love a rom com. So that was, that was the new relationship that we were, you know, trying to give you, like, you know, the ups and downs of navigating that like. And Sean is just such a great character because he's just so like angst written, you know, I mean, complicated. And then Angela's like, loves him, but then she's like, I want to get involved with this guy because he's problem. You know, it's like I just. That was so fun. And so, yeah, I enjoyed all those episodes because I think that navigating that new relationship was fun versus again, Cory and Topanga, who again, I love their, their episodes. Like I wrote the one about them buying the house. I love that episode too. But you know that they're going to be okay. You know, I mean, they're. I mean they're going to navigate life together. Whereas Angela and Sean were like, will they. Won't they be able to be together?

[Jensen Karp]

More story, more store retention.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

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[Matthew Mercer]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Jensen Karp]

Barbecues.

[Ryder Strong]

Sunny days by the pool with my shirt on.

[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Jensen Karp]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Jensen Karp]

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[Danielle Fishel]

We all have that piece.

[Matthew Mercer]

You know the one, the thing that's so you. You've basically become known for it.

[Danielle Fishel]

And if you don't have yours yet.

[Matthew Mercer]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Ebay is where you'll find those. One of a kind.

[Matthew Mercer]

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[Danielle Fishel]

I'm talking that Miu Miu off the Runway red leather bomber, the Cousteau Barcelona.

[Matthew Mercer]

Top with the cowboy on it, or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are on ebay and.

[Danielle Fishel]

They even offer millions of main character.

[Matthew Mercer]

Pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. EBay, things people love.

[Will Friedle]

So what are your memories or what are some of your favorite memories of the writers room in general? Was it an overall positive, fun place to be?

[Danielle Fishel]

It was. I mean, listen, like I said, I, I just was happy to be there because I was like again, young and you know, like, like, you know, like wide eyed and bushy tailed. You know, I just remember I used to laugh a lot and so I was like, everybody loved me in the room. Cause I just would laugh at everybody's jokes and they were like, yeah, they need that. I was, I was like, I was just happy and I just like. And I remember like, remember Bob Tischler?

[Will Friedle]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So Bob just would make, he'd make like these sounds in the room. Like, I don't like was this thing. Like, remember he did an episode where he came in and did like, was like, was a character.

[Ryder Strong]

He was one of the teachers. He's one of the professors doing, doing the gibberish.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, but that's what he, that came from him. He does that in the room or he did that in the room. So that's where that character came from. And he would just make these noises and I would just laugh non stop. So it was just. Yeah, it was the best first job ever, honestly.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, that's so funny to know that that's where that gibberish thing came from. So we interviewed Keone Young, who was the other professor who spoke gibberish. That's so funny. He used to make those sounds in the room.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was, I mean it's so ridiculous. I'm like, I don't know where that came from. That was his thing. Like he'd make these noises in the room and I would just fall out. Like I was just, you know, again, I was Young, but everything was fun and. And positive and. And again, I think the great thing also about being a young writer, just to be, like, serious for a second in that room, is Michael was really good about mentoring young writers like myself, I think Barbie Feldman, There's a couple of us who were like, you know, newer writers, and he allowed us to take the show from beginning to end, which is like a great kind of, you know, apprenticeship. So, like, we would be in casting. We would be, you know, we'd go to casting for our episode, then we go, you know, obviously just the shoot. Then we'd go to post to editing. You know what I mean? And we go to Sweetney. So we got to hear our whole episode all the way through. And that's not, you know, that's rare. And so, you know, even for me as a. Now that I'm a showrunner, like, I have that experience coming from Boy Meets World, you know, it's really, like, it really empowered me to, you know, further my career because I had all that, you know, expertise given to me from Michael, and, like, you know, I carry it forward.

[Jensen Karp]

That's great.

[Will Friedle]

That is so great. Yeah. Those experiences where you really get to learn the entirety of what it takes to get a show onto the air are invaluable.

[Ryder Strong]

One of the things that we often had on the set, which I loved, I think we all did, because it just added an energy to shooting night, was lines would change on the fly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So when you're all in video Village, are you still shooting out lines or are you letting the scene kind of finish and then going, hey, I might have something different? Or is everybody kind of jumping in even as we're going?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, again, it depends on the show, but on Boy Meets World, for sure, like, Michael was very open to, like, us coming in and, like, I mean, again, doing in front of a live audience, but you guys know, you get the response right back, so. And again, you're doing several takes, so, like, it's usually funny, but then after the second or third take, you're like, oh, is this funny? Like, you get.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, you start second guessing yourself.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's funny at the beginning, but so, like, always, you know, come in and, like, we know, like, you know, I think as writers, especially on a multicam like that, we know to kind of have a backup just in case when you're in editing that you can, like, you know, you know, beat the joke. But usually the first joke is always the one that goes in because they're always. When we go to filming, It's. It's all good. And you guys are. You guys killed it every time, you know, I mean, and so there was never a time where, like, you're going to really be the joke, but you just do it because you need to do it, like, in that moment. But it's, you know, first instincts are always the best, in my opinion.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Well, we've asked you a lot about your thoughts on Shawn and Angela's relationship, and I'm curious. You had said you watched Boy Meets World in your teenage years while you were in college, getting ready to go out at night. What are your.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pregaming. Yes, Pre.

[Will Friedle]

Gaming. Exactly. What were your overall thoughts on Cory and Topanga's relationship by the time you were there writing to it?

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, first of all, I mean, like, everyone in the world, like, we all know that Tori and Cory and Topanga were like, they're like the Romeo and Juliet. Like, they're meant to be together, but with the happy ending, though. But I will say, I think that as a woman, you know, oftentimes, like, Topanga would get criticized, you know, for, like, kind of being the, you know, you know, leading Cory on, not leading him on, but, like, you know, just kind of, like being the boss of Cory, you know, him being kind of the one who had to follow her around because he was in love with her first, right? And so, you know, and finally, when he got her, it's like she was the boss of him or whatever. But I never thought that. I think that they had the most beautiful, like, kind of respectful relationship. And I listen, as a woman, I like a Corey. I like someone who knows that I'm special. And so I would suggest all women, like, look for your Cory, because you need someone who loves you a little bit more than you love them, okay? That's the rule.

[Will Friedle]

Does he show that he loves her more than not by cheating on her regularly or by lying to her? What? Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

How does knowing who she is, that really seals her.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, that part. That's how, you know, how do we know he loves her so much other than the fact that he swears it's true?

[Danielle Fishel]

But we've seen him be in love with her since he was a baby. I mean, like, you know, I mean, like, he. He's always loved her, and, like, she's like. She's the. Oh, like, you know, the holy grail for him. And so whether he messes up in the middle and, like, because he's a boy and he missteps because he's insecure, like, that happens But I think that we all knew that, like, she's his North Star 100% from the beginning. And because, again, growing up with them, we know that. I mean, we know Tavanga doesn't know, but we know that, you know, she's everything to him. And so when he finally gets her, it's, like, very, very satisfying. And. But again, the fact that he loves her a little bit more than she loves him, I think that's the way to go, ladies.

[Will Friedle]

That's the way to do it.

[Ryder Strong]

You were also there for kind of what people would say is the. Well, I would say the change. Some people would say the de. Evolution of Eric Matthews.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh.

[Ryder Strong]

So, you know, between. We're watching. We're about halfway through season six right now, and, I mean, Eric is goofy and wacky, but he's still kind of there. And from what we've heard by season seven, I'm. What we remember season seven, he really goes off the rails. So is there. Was there something that happened in the room with that, or. I'm curious how that kind of took shape.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I think, again, I think, you know, the growing up of it all, you know what I mean? Like, I think the, you know, the love triangle was a fun thing during those times, because I think we didn't. We've never seen Eric in love or in relationships, and so him navigating that. And again, okay, listen, Will, I was gonna say you're, like, the hot guy on the show, and then, like, you have to, like, kind of give. Well, you were, you know, and people were like, oh, you know, Will's hot, so we want to give him a little, like, humility. Right, right. So, like, t. For you to be goofy made you more likable versus you can't just be the ladies man, you know? And so I think that was part of his excuse strategy when, like, making you seem that you had a weakness and your weakness was, you know, having to compete for a girl. Okay, that makes sense.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I'm just wondering what Lawrence's excuse is.

[Danielle Fishel]

But that was. But that's the whole point. You give him. You give. You know, we gave you a rival because you're the coolest man in the room. And then here comes another cool guy in the room, and you're fighting over this girl who's strategically taller than both of you.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, Exactly. Yes. Which. It's an interesting visual all the time to see us all on camera together.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I thought it was. I mean, in retrospect, it just played so well. It really did. It really and you guys were so good together. And again, I think the interesting thing about me coming in at season six, it was the transition of you guys going from being kids to being adult.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I got the adult years, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Which was really fun.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. No, we're seeing that as well. We're seeing. Especially the. I think we're all kind of shocked and not shocked, but a little blown away at how much we missed how good Matt and Maitland were together. Because when they have the scenes together.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, but it's.

[Ryder Strong]

Eric was always kind of Eric, and. And for a while, Maitland didn't. They didn't really give her a character. It was. She's the pretty girl coming out of the shower, and Jack and Eric are going, wow, pretty girl. And now that she's. They're really kind of. Yeah, right, exactly. But giving her something to do and having the kind of scenes with her and Jack, it's the quiet scenes between the two of them that really work. I mean, they've got a ton of chemistry, and it gives them something to do.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So, yeah, we're very pleasantly surprised with seeing that kind of combination.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. And again, I mean, not to not. I'm not taking credit for that, but I do think there were strong female writers in the room during my seasons where we kind of were like, yeah, let's move on. Make the girls, like, not, you know, like characters, real people, you know, I mean, so I think you, like, you said, you know, Rachel, obviously, Topanga, and then Angela, like, they all were, like, real characters. They became real characters when I was there. So I. You know, like, they all had. They were all strong women who were also, like, lead. Again, like, leading their men in a weird way. You know what I mean? Like, they were the bosses in their relationship. I mean, I think Angela and. And Ryder had the closest, equal relationship.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, most equal.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, for sure.

[Will Friedle]

It definitely seems like that because, again.

[Danielle Fishel]

We got to see their relationship, and it started off as almost adults. Do you know what I mean? So they, like, you know, we're kind of navigating it versus, like, you know, Cory was love struck with, you know, Topanga from the beginning. So it was always kind of an unequal relationship. But then, you know, they got together. But I think that was the most mature relationship that we got to see develop, you know, between Angela and Shawn.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Which I think is one of the reasons why it's a fan favorite, is that it's complex.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Did you enjoy writing the comedy or the drama more on Boy Meets World?

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, listen, I mean, I like both. Like, I love a rom com, so you need to have a little drama, you know, a little drama in there. My favorite things to write were the relationship episodes. You know what I mean? I mean, again, I wrote, you know, Poetic Justice. I also wrote the one with Cory and Tabanga. Like, like Wanted by the House. And that was.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Which is season. That one's season seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we haven't gotten to season seven yet.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, we don't know that one yet.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sorry. I don't want to jump ahead, but I. But I. I always enjoyed writing relationship episodes because that's just my sweet spot. Like, I love. Like I said, I love a rom com. So I love to, like, you know, the funny is always going to be there, but I love rooting it in, you know, something that's, you know, relationship based or character based. And so, you know, I always enjoyed, like, writing, you know, that the love story of Angela and Sean because it just was. I got there when it was just kind of like going back and forth and they would break up and then they'd get back together. To me, that's fine. And I think that's like, what people were into about that relationship. Especially, like, again, as our fans matured, like, they were invested into the mature relationships.

[Jensen Karp]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

What I have to ask now, because you've mentioned it a few times. What's your favorite rom com?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. That's a good question. Pretty Woman.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Okay. I go old school. I go OG Pretty Woman. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I love that movie.

[Ryder Strong]

Great movie.

[Will Friedle]

We've had many of our writers on and we always end up asking them or telling them one of our favorite lines and then being like, do you remember who wrote that line? I've already mentioned one of our favorite lines that was from Angela. The I've gotta get some black friends. What do you know? Was that one of your lines?

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm gonna take credit for that. I can't say 100% it was me, but I. But I'm pretty sure it was me. I was the only black person in the room.

[Jensen Karp]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm pretty sure no one else would have thought of it but me.

[Will Friedle]

I know. It is interesting too, because by the time you came into the show in season six, there had. Thankfully, we had a lot more women writers than we had ever had in the past. We had Barbie Feldman.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Lara and Patti Pat.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But we women or people of color never really caught up.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. And I think. I think that was honestly, like a groundbreaking moment. And just going back to the Fellowship. I think, like, initially the fellowship was supposed to be, like, about diversity, you know, and I think, you know, and they were trying really hard to, like, kind of, you know, break people into.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

These. These network shows. But I will say, like, I think of everyone, like, I was. This is a funny story. They were doing, like, at that time, they did, like, a diversity count. Right. Because they think the WGA was accounting. Like.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

How many, like, each network. How many, like, diverse, you know, staff members they have on different shows. And literally we're looking at. In variety. We're at the. At the. Right. In the writers room. And there was a tally for abc, and it said one. And I was like, oh, that's me.

[Will Friedle]

You're like, oh, my God, I'm the. It's me.

[Danielle Fishel]

We all were laughing about it. Cause, like, oh, that's Erica. Like, I'm one. Yes. So, like, that's how far. Yeah, so.

[Jensen Karp]

But it's depressing.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. So. But I know it's gotten better, but. And I've continued to work, so I'm very lucky. But, yeah, it was very funny.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, since your first job and since that fellowship, you have had a prolific career in tv, starting with my wife and kids, One on one with Flex. I have recently met Shanice and just love her.

[Danielle Fishel]

And Kyla was on one on one. Yeah. She's gone on to do great things, too.

[Will Friedle]

The Game. And you created your own show, Zoe Ever after, starring Brandi.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. That was fun.

[Will Friedle]

What do you think? Is there one thing in particular you feel like you took with you from your time on the Boy Meets World writers Room into every other job you had after?

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, again, I think, you know, giving credit to Michael, I think, like, because I had such a great, like, you know, just introduction to what it takes to make a television show because we got to shepherd, you know, our episodes. So even being a showrunner now, like, I, you know, I've been in editing. I've been, you know, and I actually, when I was on the Game, I was on the Game for eight seasons, but I know that doesn't happen anymore. But season seven and eight, I, you know, I ran it because Mara, the showrunner, went on to do another show, so I got to be the showrunner. So it was my first opportunity to be a showrunner. And all the things that I learned from Boy Meets World really kicked in, you know, because I had done them before, even as a young writer, you know, and I'd gone on to, you know, to that point, like, you know, I was on The Conners, which again, I. Going back to being the only black woman in the room. Like, I'm not the Connors is like, you know, like not the white show, but I'm just saying, like a white show.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, but I'm very comfortable like, you know, being, you know, in any room.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think that that's a testament to my time on Boy Meets World. Just like, I mean, that's a testament to my life. Just. I've lived my life that way. Again, I'm. I'm like Angela. Like, I don't think about like that I'm the black woman in the room. Like, I'm just the woman in the room or a woman in the room. And so I, you know, I never let that limit me as far what, as far as what jobs I take or like what kind of comedy I do or even doing drama. Like, I've done it all. So, you know, it's just, it's. It's. You don't put yourself in a box. That's kind of like what I've learned throughout my career that served me well. Well.

[Will Friedle]

And as you've mentioned, you have been in some real heavy hitter rooms. A show I knew was going to be successful from the moment I read the pilot, the Neighborhood. I literally read that pilot and was like, this show's gonna run forever. And I was right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Still going.

[Will Friedle]

I know. Still going. And then the Connors, the icarly reboot and the recent Wayans Brothers sitcom, Papa's House. I'm really, I was really sorry when I heard that guy canceled recently.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we were all sorry. It's just, it's. It's a different time, you know, I mean, that's what I will say too. Like, you know, the, the age. Like you're saying, well, like, like 24 episodes back in the day, you know, like that doesn't happen anymore. And it's hard to even get past the season. So, you know, if the weigh ins can't get a second season, like. Yeah, you know, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Well, all.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, one of the things I, I just. We've talked about this a thousand times. I'm a huge television junkie. I just love it. All of the greatest shows in history had a chance to grow and were almost canceled at one point. Mash, Cheers, the Office, Seinfeld. Seinfeld. These are all shows that were given five or six episodes were about to be canceled. Somebody said, no, let's give it a shot. And then they turned into the greatest thing. And so nobody gives them a shot anymore. Nobody's like, we're gonna give it a season. We're gonna let it grow. We're gonna find a night. We're gonna do. None of that happens anymore.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I think especially, like, I think it was going in that direction even before the strike, but I think since the strike, it's even worse. You know what I mean? Yeah. The purse strings are like, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

It's all financial 100.

[Danielle Fishel]

So hopefully. I mean, listen, I think tides turn, right? I mean, we've been through this before. We've all, like, now we're all OGs. Can you believe? Like. Oh, I know.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedle]

We're the veterans.

[Danielle Fishel]

We're the veterans now, guys. And so we've seen this happen before, so hopefully. Well, you know, there'll be an upswing at some point.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. The more Abbott elementaries we get on the Air 100.

[Danielle Fishel]

But here's the thing. What? This is the great thing, guys. Look at all of us. We're all still in the game. You know what I mean? I mean, you guys are all still working, and, you know, as kids. You know, kids, stars, back in the day, like, you've all matured into being adult, you know, stars and, like, still working.

[Will Friedle]

I don't know that I'd say stars, but adults. We did mature into adults.

[Jensen Karp]

We are working in the industry.

[Ryder Strong]

Some of us.

[Danielle Fishel]

You are all working. You're all like. I mean, like, it's huge.

[Ryder Strong]

Very lucky.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, it's so funny. Will, remember when we were striking and I had my boyfriend's daughter with me, and you were talking to her, and she, you know, she's being a little, like, so, like, standoffish. And I'm like, he's Batman. And she's like, what? I mean, like, the. Like, we're all doing our thing, so, I mean, we should all be proud.

[Will Friedle]

It's true. We are. We are all very proud.

[Ryder Strong]

Very blessed.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. But also, it's. It's. You know, you deserve it because you guys are all talented and beautiful people. So thank you. I'm happy.

[Will Friedle]

And likewise. Likewise. We will hopefully all land on our feet like we have for 30 plus years at this point.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Once you start giving numbers of years, Danielle, it freaks everybody out. Okay, Sorry.

[Will Friedle]

Final question for you. Looking back. Having started on Boy Meets World in season six, did you ever think while you were working on it that 30 years later, people would still have an interest in the show?

[Danielle Fishel]

I. Again, I mean, first of all, stop saying 30 years. No. Well, I mean, did I think about it? No. But I will Tell you again, I can mention any show that I've been on, like, Connor, like, I've been on a lot of big shows, like you said.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

People react to Boy Meets World. Like, I mean, they're like, I watched it every night. Like, I mean, people. It is, to this day my biggest credit. And people. And I think it's a testament to all of us, you know, And I think it's also a moment in time where, I don't know, maybe it's because, like, you know, maybe because people are our age are the biggest, you know, I don't know, like, demographic. But I think we all, at some point grew up with it. Whether it's season one, season two, season six, it hit all of our lives, you know, and it's the most relatable thing to this day that I've ever worked on, and people go crazy for it. And it's still playing. That's the thing, too.

[Will Friedle]

I know. It's barely ever been off the air.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. Which is fantastic. And kids are even, you know, young kids are, like, being introduced to it now, you know, and parents and their kids can watch it together and be nostalgic about it. You know what I mean? And again, I just watched a couple episodes because I wanted to be prepared for this interview, and I'm like, oh, these are good. Look at my episodes. They're funny. Yes. Oh, look at me in my poetry.

[Will Friedle]

My favorite poetry.

[Danielle Fishel]

You can take it.

[Jensen Karp]

We'll just go with it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Me being a poet, that's great. But no, I'm so proud of it. And as you guys, I'm sure, are as well. And so. Yeah. Did I know? No, but I'm not surprised.

[Will Friedle]

So amazing. Erica, thank you so much for coming and spending your time with us. Thank you for bringing your energy, your expertise, your experience, your. Your intelligence, your everything, not only to our show, but to our podcast.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys are amazing. I. Listen, I'm so happy that I can, like, you know, reconnect with you and, like, it was a wonderful time in my life, and I'm, you know, I. I cherish every moment and cherish you guys ever being a part of it.

[Will Friedle]

Well, thank you. And we. We would love to see you soon.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe we can. Lunch. Lunch.

[Will Friedle]

Let's do a lunch. Okay, great. We're all in la.

[Danielle Fishel]

We're all in la. Let's do it.

[Will Friedle]

Thank you, Erica.

[Danielle Fishel]

Bye.

[Will Friedle]

Now if we can just get Cuckoo to come back, we could all have a reunion at Kukuroo.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, we're.

[Will Friedle]

We're.

[Ryder Strong]

We've got Dubevik's back.

[Will Friedle]

That's true. We've got it.

[Ryder Strong]

So if we can just keep. Now we can get a cuckoo pop up. Ed Dubic's pop up and, you know, whatever. And if we can get pagers back, then we've really done something.

[Will Friedle]

We've really done something great.

[Jensen Karp]

That was a really interesting interview because she. She was like, a. A real defender of, like, some of the main themes of Boy Meets World in a way that.

[Ryder Strong]

That we aren't.

[Jensen Karp]

Runs counter to us.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I know.

[Jensen Karp]

I think, you know, and it was. It was cool because I. It seems like she really came in, you know, kind of like adhering to the Boy Meets World mythology, like, when she came in.

[Will Friedle]

These are the creeds, right?

[Jensen Karp]

Exactly. It's like Corey fell in love with Topanga. She's perfect. Shawn and Angela are gonna be a little more complicated. And, like, she is still kind of sticking with that. Like, it's not, you know, she. And I think that that's good to hear. Like, it was cool to hear. Cause I feel like our conversations are mostly with fans or writers who were there from the beginning and who sort of went through the, like, ups and downs and, you know, or have gone back and watched it and had self criticism. But I'm kind of happy that she was just like, nope, we did the right thing. That was the storyline. That was the way the character. That was the truth of the show. And she's proud of it, which is really cool.

[Ryder Strong]

It's also, for all the stuff we've talked about, it's nice to hear how much Michael nurtured younger writers. I think that's to his credit because we didn't always get to see that he was, you know, at times, kind of a little more prickly with us about line readings or whatever, especially when we were. We were kids. So it's nice to hear that with younger writers, he kind of let them do their thing and. And see an entire episode from. From front to back. I think that's very much a credit to him.

[Jensen Karp]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I know. It is interesting how much she was like, no, Cory and Topanga, they were. He loved her forever. He fell in love with her first. And I was like, all of those things are things I would have counter arguments for. But that's certainly the takeaway of most fans from the show is that they were meant to be. They. He'd never. You know, Corey loved her beyond measure, and she, of course, loved him. And so, yeah, you're right. It was. And she had been a fan of the show or, you know, had watched the show before she was ever a writer for it. So she. She had believed it before she ever even had a hand in creating it.

[Jensen Karp]

Yeah. I mean, even just to the extent that, like, you know, Trina and I have been public about wondering, like, should we have addressed the interracial stuff and should we have, you know, been. And I, you know, both of us have kind of gone on record saying, like, yeah, I think maybe it should have. You know, but at the time, I remember, we were very much in Erica's camp. We were very much like, no, the whole point is, you know, you're not defined by your ethnicity, so we don't even want to talk about it. And it was cool to hear that defended again, you know, from somebody who obviously had much more experience with that kind of thing than I did. So, you know, it was conscious. You know, there was a conscious decision. There was a conversation going on behind the scenes, and she's not, you know, she's defending that. And I think that that's great.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I think the other thing we kind of took away where I think we knew this, but it's. To hear it kind of articulated this way. The tone of the show was basically, completely and totally dictated by whatever was going on in Michael's life at the time.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

If he was in a good place, the show was in a good, happy, fun place. If he was maybe in a bit of a darker place, the show seemed to take a darker turn. You know, again, obviously, the NICU and the stuff he was going through with Joshua, that's going to color that aspect of your life. I mean, it's a very important thing to him. So it's kind of what he was going through is what would happen on the show.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Jensen Karp]

I wonder if that still happens. Like, do showrunners get to personally express themselves with. To that degree? I mean, that's kind of. I mean, kind of. Can I. I can't. I don't know if I've heard about another show having that much.

[Ryder Strong]

It would depend on the showrunner and the power of the showrunner. You know, that kind of thing. If Larry David decided to do a new show completely about his life, he's going to get to dictate what that is.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So I think. And at the time, that was Michael. Michael was an enormous showrunner in Hollywood, multiple sitcoms for decades. So he was able to look at a network and say, no, I'm doing it this way. And who knows if that can happen anymore.

[Will Friedle]

Larry David did a divorce storyline on Curb youb Enthusiasm when he was going through a divorce.

[Ryder Strong]

So there you go.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails. Pod meets worldshow gmail.com and we have got merch.

[Ryder Strong]

Tonight on Love Island. Buy some merch. That's. I'm Will Friedle and I will be auditioning for the part of voiceover on Love Island.

[Jensen Karp]

Are you gonna do a Southern accent? Is that what you kind of.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, no, that's just always how they.

[Will Friedle]

Tonight. Is that how they do it?

[Ryder Strong]

Southern? That's how they do it in the Australian version. I do my own twist.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. What's your twist?

[Ryder Strong]

I'm not sure.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm gonna workshop it and I'll be back.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, great. I can't wait to hear when you get this job.

[Jensen Karp]

Jensen.

[Ryder Strong]

They should have hired Jensen. They should. The. That's the idea that he had that opportunity. Flip through your fingers, my friend.

[Will Friedle]

Podmeats worldshow.com writer. Send us out.

[Jensen Karp]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Wilfred L And Ryder Strong, executive producers Jeff Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Sugbash, producer Matty Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superban Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram odmeatsworld show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com.

[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast.