Hoobastank (Dan Estrin & Doug Robb)

Summary

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Pod Meets World: Teen Beat with Hoobastank (Dan Estrin & Doug Robb)

Host: Danielle Fishel
Guests: Dan Estrin & Doug Robb of Hoobastank
Release Date: July 15, 2026
Episode Theme:
A nostalgia-fueled deep dive into the pre-fame and career journey of Hoobastank, with candid memories of their youth in California’s San Fernando Valley, the formation of the band, pivotal friendships and rivalries in the local music scene, behind-the-scenes reflections on their breakout years, and the story behind new music after nearly a decade.

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Main Theme & Purpose

Danielle Fishel hosts Hoobastank's Doug Robb and Dan Estrin for a lively conversation centered on their teenage years in the Valley, the formation and evolution of the band, and how those formative years shaped their music and identities. The episode explores local lore, band origins, band name drama, legendary venues, embarrassing moments, and Hoobastank's creative resurgence with new music.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Valley Roots, Rivalries, and 818 Pride

• Shared SoCal High School Experience:

  • Danielle (Calabasas High) and the guys (Agoura High) reminisce on local rivalry ("Chargers vs. Coyotes" [04:38]) and land markers like Agora Man and the Commons movie theater.
  • "Tearing down the Agora Man 8 was absolutely criminal." – Danielle [04:40]

• Youthful Pranks & Straight Edge Tendencies:

  • Doug and Dan recall pranks at parties (like secretly cranking up the thermostat) instead of drinking:
    • “We got off on, like, going to these high school parties…and we'd start to turn it up hotter and hotter and watching…We just pranked everybody.” – Dan [06:10]
    • “That's a perfect prank. Cause it's completely harmless, you know.” – Danielle [06:26]

Local Hangouts: Topanga Mall & Ruby’s

• Topanga Mall Memories:

  • Stories about the mall's original features, the iconic ice rink, and Orange Julius, plus family connections to Valley fixtures like Pup 'N Taco. [07:05–08:09]

• Ruby’s on the Pier:

  • Ritual visits post-tour, and the heartbreak after its closure—“How could we not keep Ruby’s alive in the Valley?” – Danielle [09:12]
  • “Ruby’s was your thing because you stopped eating red meat, and that was one of the few places besides Fat Burger that served turkey burgers.” – Doug [08:29]

The Cobalt Café: Local Music Incubator

• A Legendary Scene:
  • Cobalt Café remembered as a scrappy, friendly, crucial venue for SoCal bands:
    • “It was like a living room. Like, we're playing in someone's living room. Let's just do it. It's a place to play.” – Doug [10:03]
  • Mutual support, DIY lighting (“we’d just stand in the back and flick the lights off and on” – Dan [11:25]), and 5-dollar gigs built community and confidence.

Meeting at Battle of the Bands & the Spirit of Collaboration

• Not Competition, but Camaraderie:
  • Doug and Dan reflect on learning from each other's bands:
    • “There's things about his band at the time that I looked at and was like, wow…I would like our band to be more like.” – Dan [13:38]
  • The local scene was tight-knit: “It wasn't a competitive thing. It was like, it helps to have more people like us around us.” – Danielle [15:32]
  • “Everybody kind of supported each other…there was a healthy competition…everybody kind of pushed other to expand a little bit.” – Doug [15:39]

Incubus, Linkin Park, and Making It Out of the Valley

• Incubus’s Influence:

  • Watching friends in Incubus get signed reframed music as a possible “real job”:
    • “They were the biggest local band for sure…when they got a record deal…that’s when it was like, oh my God, is this an option?” – Doug [21:07]

• Linkin Park Connections & Mike Shinoda:

  • Both Dan and Doug were high school friends with Mike Shinoda, more known for his art at the time. Dan reminisces:
    • “He drew a picture in my yearbook and wrote something about, you know, I'll buy your albums when you get famous, whatever, and you buy my T shirts.” – Dan [23:49]
  • Danielle shares: “Mike made us some beautiful art as a wedding present…Ruby’s is on there, Wu Tang is on there. It's quite a mashup.” [25:36]

The Band Name Debate: To Change or Not to Change

• Almost Not Hoobastank:
  • The band came this close to changing their name before their record deal:
    • “By 2000…now potentially it’s going to go national or global. Now’s the time…if we're ever going to switch it.” – Doug [26:04]
    • “At some point in the show, they were. They were. The audience was chanting, Hooba Stack…. Our A&R guy came up and just, ‘You guys cannot change that name.’” – Doug [27:11]
  • Ended up sticking with it, only changing the spelling.
  • “It was never anything that we were super proud of… I've always said…it's kind of like your first tattoo that you might regret.” – Dan [27:43]

Band Names: The Wild, the Weird, the Y2K

• Name Showdown Game:
  • Danielle quizzes the guys on other band names from their Warped Tour peers ("Alien Ant Farm," "Bowling for Soup," "I Wrestled a Bear Once," etc.).
    • “I'm just going to say that they're better than us so they don't hurt any feelings.” – Doug [45:14]
  • Consensus: Long names are tough, but no point in judging—"my band's called Hoobastank." [45:59]

Growing Pains, Embarrasing Gigs & Onstage Fiascoes

• Early Show Disasters:
  • “It's all ego. At some point…what makes you comfortable? Did you sing well? Did the audience like it? Did they. Was it large but unengaged? Was it small but totally locked in?” – Doug [35:01]
  • Worst moment: the VMAs, a complete in-ear monitor failure, making live TV “90 seconds of pure terror”:
    • “That was probably [the hardest] moment performing in this band.” – Doug [39:53]
  • Lessons in vulnerability and humility followed:
    • “What it really did is…made me be less harsh on other people…if you mess up, that's fine.” – Doug [40:09]
    • “That's one of the reasons why I'll never accept singing the national anthem anywhere…If I nail it, it's forgotten by kickoff. If I fuck it up, it's immortalized.” – Doug [40:43]

Infamous Mini-Bike Accident & Surviving It

• The Incident:
  • While goofing off with new “pocket rocket” mini-bikes, Dan is seriously injured by a hidden rope, resulting in a fractured skull and emergency brain surgery.
    • “I feel like it was either me or the tour manager who gave the green light to cut him open, Doc, like, yeah, let's do this.” – Doug [51:32]
  • Gallows humor even in crisis:
    • “He had a catheter, but he wanted to tell me. You know, there was always something like that, like, in the worst times ever, there's always, like, a little bit of humor.” – Doug & Dan [54:54]
  • “Wear helmets, kids. Because even going slow, you know, crazy.” – Danielle [56:17]

The “Reason” Becomes a Monster Hit

• Origin & Making of the Song:
  • The track started as “just a mellow kind of a breather on the album…never had any intention or foresight to see what it would do.” – Doug [60:13]
  • How they realized its impact:
    • “There was a moment…where that song had become a single, which we had fought against…And I want to say it was Atlanta. I remember playing the song and the reaction was, like, ridiculous. Like nothing I'd ever seen.” – Doug [62:19]
  • The moment they outsold even Incubus:
    • “At some point we started passing them…oh, dude, this is kind of out of our control now.” – Doug [63:34]

New Music, Reset and Moving Forward

• The Long Road to "How Do You Sleep"
  • Band underwent rounds of personal and creative challenges, then regrouped with classic producer Howard Benson:
    • “I kind of felt like me coming back to feeling like I'm in a normal creative space, linked up with you, starting to write these ideas that kind of reminded me of earlier stuff.” – Doug [65:01]
  • “We ended up recording four songs…I’ve detached myself from the outcome. Do I like the songs…Yes…And then that's it. I win.” – Doug [67:42]
  • More songs are likely, possibly a new album on the horizon.
  • “Correct.” – Danielle [67:51]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Finding the Punk Scene as Teens

• “It was kind of like a living room. Like, we’re playing in someone’s living room. Let's just do it. It's a place to play…so low budget and, like, do it yourself. It kind of fit the vibe of the music.” – Doug [10:03]

The Band Name Dilemma

• “It was never anything that we were super proud of…I've always said...it's kind of like your first tattoo that you might regret, of course, when you're late.” – Dan [27:43]

The Value of Taking Risks…Sparingly

• “One of the things I say often that I am thankful gets better with age, is balancing risk versus reward. I'm so good at it now. I'm like, what's the reward? What's the reward here?” – Danielle [41:11]

On Early Gig Fails

• “All shows are not created equal. At some point, you have to figure out what it is that makes you comfortable…Did you sing well? Did you perform well? Did the audience like it?” – Doug [35:01]

When "The Reason" Blew Up

• “There was a moment…playing the song and the reaction was, like, ridiculous. Like nothing I'd ever seen.” – Doug [62:19]

On Letting Go & Loving the Process (After 30+ Years)

• “I've detached myself from the outcome. Do I like the songs when I listen to them? Yes. Do I like the process? Yes. And then that's it. I win.” – Doug [67:42–67:49]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 02:31 | Danielle’s introduction & Hoobastank welcome | | 04:38 | Local high school memories & friendly rivalry | | 05:27 | Early adolescent pranks instead of partying | | 06:45 | Topanga Mall, Ruby’s, and Valley nostalgia | | 09:18 | Cobalt Cafe and its importance to young bands | | 13:24 | Meeting at Battle of the Bands; competitive friendship | | 19:07 | Incubus’s influence and the “Valley Boom” | | 23:32 | Linkin Park ties and Mike Shinoda yearbook story | | 26:04 | Considering changing the band name | | 34:28 | Early disastrous gigs & the MTV Awards audiomare | | 48:00 | Dan’s mini-motorbike accident and hospital story | | 59:23 | The making and rapid rise of “The Reason” | | 65:01 | Return to punky roots: "How Do You Sleep" & New Music |

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a love letter to the San Fernando Valley, a testament to the accidental greatness that can come from humble, collaborative beginnings, and an honest look at the highs-and-lows reality of becoming (and staying) a band. Full of sharp Valley references, self-deprecating humor, and lessons in creative endurance, it celebrates the universal awkwardness—and the occasional magic—of growing up and making music with your best friends.

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For more, listen to bonus content on the Teen Beat feed and check out Hoobastank’s new single “How Do You Sleep” on streaming platforms.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Doug Robb]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Hello friends, I'm Danielle Fishall and it's time again for Teen Beat, a podcast where I interview interesting people who have done interesting things in an attempt to uncover the realities of their youth before the spotlight. Because we know our teenage years can act as a blueprint for who we are today. I am a perfect example of this. I spent my entire youth playing a type A success obsessed overachiever and and in turn I grew up to be. Well, maybe I'm a little too on the nose here. I see it this way. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. And this week, I'm excited to learn more about a band that not only helped define every good mixtape I've ever made, they also helped define my zip code. Born from the inspiration of punk and ska, the band with the worst and absolute best name in music has sold a staggering total of 10 million albums worldwide. Their sophomore album, 2003's the Reason, has a title track that rivals the O.C. tony Hawk's Pro Skater and Von Dutch as the most peak Y2K things I can reference. And now, over 30 years since forming, six studio albums later, they've released their first new song in eight years. How do youo Sleep? A throwback to their punk roots. And I, for one, love it. This week's Teen Beat guest the pride of Ventura County's border. It's Doug Robb and Dan Estrin of Hoobastank. Welcome, gentlemen.

[Dan Estrin]

Thank you for having us.

[Doug Robb]

The pride of Ventura County's border. I was like, that's so accurate.

[Danielle Fishel]

How does that feel?

[Dan Estrin]

The border.

[Doug Robb]

The Ventura county border is like, up the street from my house.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Doug Robb]

So really right there. Nailed it.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pinpoint it to the. To the location. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Fair warning. Up top. I am legally forced to start with 818 talk whenever a fellow Valley kids are on the podcast. So you are Agora High School alumni. Right. And I am a Calabasas graduate. In some circles, we might be considered rivals.

[Doug Robb]

Chargers versus Coyotes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. But we can all agree that tearing down the Agora Man 8 was absolutely criminal.

[Dan Estrin]

Right? That just recently happened. Right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

I drive by that every day going to the gym. Yeah. And I still look at it going, dude, I have so I had so many memories there. So many great memories.

[Danielle Fishel]

So many memories there.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Pretty cool parking lot though, now, is it? Well, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

The commons. They just tore down the movie theater in the commons.

[Doug Robb]

Right. That being said, I'm not one of those guys that. Or that that just is like, things need to stay the same. I don't fight the tide, like, totally. At some point when all this construction is done, I'm sure it'll look great. And the people who grow up with that will then see that as their core memory. And then they can complain later on when. When it gets torn down.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct. I.

[Dan Estrin]

Do you remember we rode bikes through the movie theater? Yeah. On a Friday night, we were out with, like 14 friends on bikes in Agora and had nothing to do while everybody was out at parties getting drunk and stuff. Us and 14 of our friends rode BMX bikes through the side exit while people were coming out, straight down the hallway through. Through the Agora movie theater and out door. It was pretty funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

Were you guys straight edge?

[Dan Estrin]

We. We didn't, like, claim it. Not. Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Not like we didn't wear it on our sleeves, you know, we had friends that partied and drank and did drugs and stuff like that, but we weren't the ones doing it, you know, it wasn't like. It was just a choice. Like, we just decided we didn't want to do it.

[Dan Estrin]

We got off on, like, going to these high school parties, and everybody was kind of getting wasted, and we would be watching people dancing and doing whatever they're doing. And we'd go over to the thermostat. We'd. While they're sweating, and we'd start to turn it up hotter and hotter and hotter and watching.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, we just pranked everybody.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's a perfect prank. Cause it's completely harmless, you know, like.

[Dan Estrin]

And it's really funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's a funny prank. Everyone suffers a little, but it's. No one really gets hurt, you know? That's really good.

[Dan Estrin]

You're burning calories.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Doug Robb]

Nobody suffers.

[Dan Estrin]

Nobody suffers.

[Doug Robb]

They're concerned about their health.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, I will get this out of the way now. Did you hang out at the Topanga Mall?

[Dan Estrin]

Topanga.

[Doug Robb]

Nice. Dude, that's awesome. You know you have to go everywhere with her, don't you?

[Danielle Fishel]

Every follows me around.

[Doug Robb]

That's a good job.

[Dan Estrin]

Doug actually grew up in Agora, and I grew up in Calabasas.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Dan Estrin]

But I went to Agora.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Dan Estrin]

So I grew up right behind the high school.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Dan Estrin]

And so, yes, I was at the Topanga Mall back when they had an ice skating rink.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah. And I was like. And prior to that, I lived all over the valley. Like, my parents moved to Agora when I was in third grade.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Doug Robb]

But we lived in Canoga park in Tarzana. Like, it's Encino. It was everywhere.

[Dan Estrin]

Everywhere.

[Doug Robb]

Same with him. I remember going to the Topanga Plaza.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Doug Robb]

You don't have a little jingle for Topanga Plaza? We'll do it again with the ice skating rink.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And the Orange Julius. And wasn't there. I want to say one of my older brothers worked at the Puppin Taco, like, on Topanga. It was across the street from what was like a skate park or some kind of big slide. I remember being really young now.

[Dan Estrin]

I'm like, there was a big golf.

[Doug Robb]

Like, was it like a golf and

[Dan Estrin]

stuff type of a thing? Did it have a slide over where the Village is on the corner of Victory in Topanga? I don't remember if there was, but it closed down when we were really, really.

[Doug Robb]

I saw Empire Strikes Back and Indiana Jones and the Temple Doom at the Topanga Theater. So going way back now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Going way back. I. I'm still devastated that the rubies is gone.

[Dan Estrin]

Dude, wasn't I talking about this in

[Danielle Fishel]

the car just today? You were talking.

[Doug Robb]

We were talking about rubies. Whoa, whoa. I was talking.

[Dan Estrin]

I had. I had seen something recently on Instagram that you had done, and you were talking about places in the Valley, and. And you brought up rubies and rubies.

[Doug Robb]

And I. Rubies was your thing because you stopped eating red meat, and that was one of the few places besides Fat Burger that served turkey burgers. So that was like. It was like, if we were gonna go eat, it was Fat Burger or Ruby's.

[Dan Estrin]

And I went to Ruby's when we would come home from tour or even. Even a little bit before that. I was there, like, three days a week. I had their sweatshirt.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, I still have my Ruby sweatshirt. I actually have art in my house of rubies on the pier.

[Dan Estrin]

Scooby Dooby down to Ruby's or something like that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely.

[Dan Estrin]

And when I go to.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'll.

[Dan Estrin]

I'll go to Orange county just to go eat at Ruby's.

[Danielle Fishel]

Same.

[Dan Estrin]

And if you drive by that promenade area and you look up on there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Still there.

[Dan Estrin]

It's still. It's kind of says it. I shed a tear every time I drive by.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm telling you. How could we not keep rubies alive in the Valley? Like, I feel like we need.

[Dan Estrin]

This will bring it back.

[Danielle Fishel]

Maybe this podcast. If there's one thing I want to be known for, it's bringing back a rubies. Okay. One place I know you both also hung out was the Cobalt Cafe, which was a now defunct music venue in Canoga Park. Somewhat legendary early stops for bands like afi, Less Than Jake, and yes, Hubastang. Tell me about the Cobalt Cafe and what it meant to you as teens.

[Doug Robb]

I think the honest answer is, back then, there wasn't a lot of places to play semi locally, you know, like, if we wanted to play shows that weren't high school parties and stuff like that, we had to go down to the city. And it's difficult to get a bunch of teenage kids to go down to Hollywood all the time, you know?

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And I don't know how did we stumble across that as a place to play? But I remember, however it was. It was like, oh, you know, this is cool. It's kind of like a living room. Like, we're playing in someone's living room. Let's just do it. It's a place to play. And the shows themselves turned out to be so much. They were like house parties, like bodies flying all over, kicking stuff off the ceiling. And it was so low budget and, like, do it yourself. It kind of fit the vibe of the music. Yeah. So it was cool. But I don't know how we. We stumbled upon.

[Dan Estrin]

Well, when we were going to. When we were in high school, there was a band that was a little bit younger than us that had a show there, and I remember going to see them play there. And because I lived off of Valley Circle, I would just shoot up Topanga to Sherman Way, and there it was. And I went and saw them there and I. And it was. At that point, it was. It was kind of nice. It was a nice place where you go and you walk up and you get your latte and whatever it was, and a book or, you know, there was seats everywhere that were spread out, and it was. It was clean and nice. And I just remember kind of going like, oh, okay. There's a. There's a venue to a degree that's kind of close. And the stage is about this high. Really, really crappy PA system. Horrible light system, no lights.

[Doug Robb]

We would just stand in the back and flick the lights off and on.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, there was a light switch. There was a light switch.

[Doug Robb]

We would joke around with other bands going, who's doing our lights tonight? Like, who's.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who's wearing your lights?

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, yeah. So it would be the opening band or the band behind us, like, just to push the fader up and down, like during, like, climactic moments during the set.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. But we just ended up needing places to play and we didn't really care where we played. And it was close enough to get a lot of our friends from school to come out.

[Doug Robb]

And it was super cheap, you know, it was like five bucks. Five bucks to get in or something like that. It was.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Dan Estrin]

You know, and we became friends with the owner, Dave, who I'll talk to still every once in a while. And. Yeah, it's a bummer that it's not there anymore. They still actually do Cobalt Presents shows at different.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, okay.

[Dan Estrin]

Locations throughout the Valley now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Dan Estrin]

But he had to close it down, I think, during COVID or something like that. And now it's a. Like a flooring store. Because I go to Cabaret as the. The sandwich.

[Danielle Fishel]

The Italian love Cabarettas.

[Doug Robb]

I still haven't eaten there yet.

[Danielle Fishel]

Gosh, you're missing out, dude.

[Dan Estrin]

It's really good.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys, like, I'm not into the bread.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. It's too hard, Right? It's that. It's like.

[Doug Robb]

It's like eating fruit.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. It's like.

[Doug Robb]

I feel.

[Danielle Fishel]

Seen. My husband loves it.

[Doug Robb]

Really? I'm more of an Italia deli guy, so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I love that place too.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

I will also, the one thing I will say about is they have great cannoli.

[Dan Estrin]

I haven't tried good cannoli, but the times that I would. Well, the guy that I think owns. Used to. Used to work at Cabaret is, from what I've heard.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, okay.

[Dan Estrin]

And I do like their sandwiches, but they have. Don't they have two different breads there? You can get the crusty bread or the softer bread.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, but the softer bread is still hard.

[Dan Estrin]

No, you're right. You're right.

[Doug Robb]

I don't like a sandwich where I

[Dan Estrin]

bite into it and everything shoots out the back of it. Exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, thank you. By the way, every time we talk about. And I complained about it, I bleep out on the podcast because I don't want to disparage the business. So it's kind of a running joke that I have like a terrible sandwiches.

[Dan Estrin]

No, I love. I would go to Cabaretta's and they would just like, hey, Dan, so do you want. They knew what I wanted all the time. Yeah. It's my spot. I love.

[Danielle Fishel]

I love that feeling. You two met at a battle of the bands, right? Has enough time passed that you guys feel comfortable admitting whose band was better?

[Doug Robb]

We didn't meet in the battle bands, but that was our first performance together.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Dan Estrin]

You know what? There's things about his band at the time that I. That I looked at and was like, wow. There's things about them that I really like that I would like our band to be more like.

[Doug Robb]

And vice versa. Like, okay, from my perspective, I was playing bass in the band. I'm not a bass player. I was just a hack guitar player.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Doug Robb]

And I was filling in to play bass out of fomo, basically because my closest friend at the time was a singer. And he was an extremely charismatic guy. Like, that's why we won the Battle of the Bands, because of him. He was a popular dude, extremely funny, very energetic, all that kind of stuff. But I remember looking at his band and going, oh, these guys are like players. Like, they all, like, they're so good at what they do and being kind of the same thing. Like, God, dude, I wish. I wish my band knew how to play as well as they did. Like, we're just covering Rage against the Machine and Alice in Chain stuff and you guys were doing like, we were

[Dan Estrin]

writing songs and coverings, but I just remember not. Not ever feeling like it was a competition because growing up, idolizing, like, the Seattle bands, you know, they all seem to have this camaraderie between them that I always envied and. And I just liked having friends that were in bands.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Dan Estrin]

And his lead singer was also a close friend of mine. And that's kind of how Doug and I met.

[Doug Robb]

He was the bridge. Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

And, yeah, I really liked just having other bands that. And that. That same thing at Calabasas with the audio event guys, you know, the Boyds and Einzingers or whatever, you know, like, we just kind of grew up with that around and before anybody had record deals. And it was nice seeing them at arties, at their parents houses, coming over and listening to our new songs and vice versa. It was.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. It wasn't. It wasn't a competitive thing. It was like, it helps to have more people like us around us.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, it was. Everybody kind of supported each other and. And I felt there was a. It wasn't competitive, but there was a healthy competition. I don't. I don't want to say like, like, we were trying to beat them, but

[Danielle Fishel]

you raised each other's bars. Yes.

[Doug Robb]

I was like, I definitely think everybody kind of pushed other to expand a little bit. Like, get a little bit better. A little bit better. Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Dan Estrin]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent?

[Doug Robb]

And I really thought about it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I was like, no.

[Doug Robb]

At this point, it would kind of

[Dan Estrin]

be betraying the trust the author and the listener have. But in telling this story, if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that. That deeply, emotionally affected me and I

[Doug Robb]

left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God,

[Dan Estrin]

I cried at the end.

[Doug Robb]

It's like, yeah dude, me too. Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the bo. He cuts past the nonstop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal. He shoots no unlimited data for $25 a month forever. Visit your local Boost Mobile store today to get unlimited data with a price that never changes.

[Dan Estrin]

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[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Dan Estrin]

See terms Amazon Health AI presents Painful

[Danielle Fishel]

Thoughts why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole

[Doug Robb]

filled with images of alarmingly graphic source

[Danielle Fishel]

in various stages of ooze.

[Doug Robb]

I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Dan Estrin]

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[Doug Robb]

Healthcare just got less painful.

[Danielle Fishel]

You were part of a San Fernando Valley boom of bands in the late 90s to sign record deals which included the apple of the Calabasasi Incubus. What role did they play in your careers and getting the attention that then led to a record deal.

[Doug Robb]

Honestly, a huge one. Like I think it's like you said, I always factually, but also just from my perception, they always seemed a cup. They were a couple years ahead of us, you know, like they started a band a couple years before we did, et cetera, et cetera. They Were. They were and are just amazing musicians. And at the time, I didn't see music as a legitimate career. Like, I grew up listening to early on, Van Halen. And, I don't know, the people that were professional musicians that I enjoyed were, like, virtuoso, the best of the best. Like, pro athletes. Like, you don't accidentally become a pro athlete. You know what I mean? So it was the same kind of mindset for music for me. So I loved it. But I. I understood that I didn't have the. Means to get that good. I just wasn't that disciplined. I didn't have it. And then in high school, when Nirvana and the whole Seattle thing happened, it wasn't like all of a sudden said, hey, I could actually do this. But it did expose me to another side of music writing and songwriting that was like, oh, you don't have to shred over everything to use this as, like, an avenue. And so that kind of planted a seed of maybe this is something I could do. But then, Dan, like you said, knowing these guys forever and being around them prior to their record deal, I kind of feel like they were the biggest local band for sure. And, you know, eventually playing shows with them and becoming friends with them and their brothers and stuff, when they got a record deal, which was, I think, like, in the late 90s, 98, 97, somewhere around then, it was probably a moment when, like, oh, my God, like, they're actually doing it. They're Do. They're. That's what they're gonna do. Holy. This is. Is this, like a thing? Like, is this an option?

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, is this something we could do?

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Is this.

[Doug Robb]

Is this a legitimate way to. To go through life? So it wasn't like they all of a sudden made me go, now we can do it. But it definitely made me go, oh, my God, dude, this is. It's not a pipe dream, right? Like, they're. They're actually gonna do this. And so it's very inspiring on that level, for sure. Again, I kind of gave you the confidence, like, oh, if they can do it, then we can do it.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And then, like I said, along with opening for so many shows, playing so many shows with them. I mean, Dan, you used to go and tech for Mikey for fun, you know, just to get into shows. And.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, I mean, I went to. Yeah, you've been doing it forever, right? So.

[Danielle Fishel]

So did I.

[Dan Estrin]

And so. So I remember them. And they were always, you know, like, the cool dudes, like, the cool guys. And I kind of got to know Them a little bit after that, became friends with the guitar player. And we didn't, we weren't really. We were just kind of starting off as a band, but I knew that I wanted to play music and start a band. And they were a local band just playing local shows. And I would take my video, my VHS video camera with me everywhere and so I would take, I would start to go to their shows with them and help them out with their equipment. Kind of like a roadie, A roadie before they were anything and whatever. So I have tons of old videos of them playing like parties and just, oh, that's really small places, all over the place. And so I got to, you know, stand on the side of the stage and watch them and hang with them, drive the shows early, help them with their equipment, just chat with them, go to their houses and watch them rehearse and, and like he said, it was inspiring. And we were, we were all into the same types of bands at that point. We were inspired by the same types of bands which I think ended up being the result of the sounds to a degree of.

[Doug Robb]

I mean, it's the same, same musical influences, same, you know, skating and beach lifestyle type. The environment, you know, it shapes, it shapes what you, what you sound like. And so, yeah, it was, it was a, it was a cool time.

[Danielle Fishel]

And over at your high school, the origins of Linkin park were also born. Did you guys know Mike Shinoda growing up?

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, I was like, what is it, your yearbook? One of those yearbooks he, he signed like, basically, oh, you're going to be a famous musician. I'm going to do your artwork for you.

[Dan Estrin]

So back in high school, he wasn't a musician. I mean, he was a, he was a musician. I, I guess I'm sure he played piano and whatever he did. And he, I feel like I remember him being into hip hop music back then, but he was the grade below me and we were friends. I knew him. And same with the guitar player, Brad. I was tight with Brad, but I remember graduating high school. You know, everybody signs the yearbooks and seeing it, whatever it is. And he, and he drew a picture in my yearbook and wrote something about, you know, I'll buy your albums when you get famous, whatever, and you buy my T shirts. Because he was, he was doing art.

[Doug Robb]

I think he was more known for being an artist. Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

And it's cool. We run into those guys every now and then over the years. And you know, over the years he will always, he always tells the same story about How I protected him from a bully in high school. And I don't fully remember, but I kind of remember he, yeah, he was just, he was cool. And I think there was like these, you might remember these like wannabe gangster type of kids that were in Agora and Calabasas and I mean, but some of those kids actually committed murder, correct?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, some of those kids have movies about, about them.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

And I went to high school with those kids and, and some of them I think might have used to mess with him or something. I don't remember what it was, but I was a year older and just thought they thought it was lame and. Right. Guy stood up for him one time or something like that. But, but yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Did you see him in Portugal last week or a couple weeks ago?

[Dan Estrin]

We, we were just in Portugal doing a festival with them and I, I, I didn't talk to him, no, but I, I, they were there. But the last time I saw him was last year. We did a festival together and we hung out a little bit with them backstage and chatted and it's cool.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, Mike made us some beautiful art as a wedding present that's hanging in our house. He combined all of the things that Jensen and I love and painted them and Rubies. Ruby's is on there, Wu Tang is on there. It's quite a mashup. But it's very special to us. So Mike is close and special to us. Did you guys ever think of changing your name? Like, what other options did you have for band names?

[Doug Robb]

Yes, the short answer is yes, we. Ubistank was perfect for a bunch of 18 year olds, like playing, you know, house parties and ska metal punk music, you know, it was perfect. But by 2000, when we had a record deal offer, we didn't actually sign as Hoops think we just signed as the individual members because it was kind of like, all right, we have what if. Yeah, we're a decent. We've, we've spent the last five years, you know, building up what we have. But now potentially it's going to go national or global. Now's the time to, if we're ever going to switch it, now's the time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you guys think of that yourselves or did the label say something to you?

[Doug Robb]

I want to say no. We did so smart. We're like, okay, this is, this is, we've it, you know, time to shed the baby teeth. Yeah, you know, and then we, we played a show at the Whiskey and our A and R guy was at the show and at some Point in the show, they were. They were. The audience was chanting, hooba Stack.

[Dan Estrin]

Hooba Stack.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Doug Robb]

Show's over. So we're in the dressing room, and he comes up and he just. You guys cannot change that name.

[Danielle Fishel]

Don't even think about it.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And I'm like. I remember even poo. Pooing it down. We're like, dude, forget it. No. We'll have this conversation later because it's done. We're not. We're changing the name. And though that never happened, we were convinced to keep the name, change the spelling of it, but keep the pronunciation the same. And yeah, like you said earlier, it's the worst and best name ever. Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

It was never anything that we were super proud of. It wasn't like we were like, we got the name. We nailed it. The opposite. And it still is the opposite. It's. We. We realize how stupid it is. And I've always said that it's Doug, and I actually don't have any tattoos, but it's kind of like your first tattoo that you might regret, of course, when you're late.

[Danielle Fishel]

I had a butterfly tramp stamp that was sitting pencil. Like, sad. Yeah, I had it removed. I mean, that kind, you know. Yes. That was my first tattoo.

[Doug Robb]

You have your ANR guy convince you to keep it.

[Danielle Fishel]

My guy had no idea. No say in it.

[Dan Estrin]

So it's. Yeah, it's. It's kind of like that, except for we kept our tramp stamp. And listen, our barbed wire tribal armbands.

[Doug Robb]

We still have them,

[Dan Estrin]

but.

[Doug Robb]

But eventually, yeah, like, eventually those armbands are going to be cool again. Or if they are not, for sure.

[Dan Estrin]

Some people think it's the coolest thing ever and it makes the most sense, and others think it's the dumbest thing ever. And we're like, we get it. We get how stupid it is. If you like it, cool. If you don't, we don't care.

[Doug Robb]

It doesn't. It's just a name.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's just a name. Also, sometimes something salient is more important than something good. Like Topanga is the most salient name maybe of any TV character ever. And that doesn't necessarily mean that the name Topanga for a person is great. But, like, I will be known for the rest of my. No one will ever forget Topanga from Boy Meet. Like that show. Like, that's.

[Dan Estrin]

So how did that come about?

[Danielle Fishel]

So we don't fully know. We don't know the true story. Lots of different people have taken credit for it. The most commonly told story and certainly the funniest is that Michael Jacobs, the executive producer and showrunner, was driving from Hidden Hills to Burbank, where we were shooting, and they called and were like, we need a name for this character. And he was at the 101 in Topanga, and he looked up and said, said Topanga. And said, had they called me one minute later, she would have been DeSoto.

[Dan Estrin]

Right.

[Doug Robb]

Or Reseda or Resita, Tampa.

[Danielle Fishel]

So that's the story told. But there have been like, four or five different people who said, that's not true. I created the character. I came up with the name.

[Doug Robb]

I would say, don't trust those people.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, just go with the.

[Doug Robb]

I like the. More like, I saw it and that's it. The other one's like, I created.

[Danielle Fishel]

The one thing I say is that Topanga was a flower child. She had very hippie parents, Jedediah and Chloe. Her father was a luthier. Luthier. Lu. And so the idea that Topanga was started because Topanga Canyon was a hippie hangout is. Is what. When people say, like, it was thought out for me, this character, this flower child, what would her parents have named her? And they picked a place where maybe she would have been conceived. That was kind of the other backstory.

[Dan Estrin]

So it was just coincidental that you were there in Calabasas going to Calabasas High School, where Topanga Canyon was right up the street.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct.

[Dan Estrin]

I always was like, there's a connection somewhere, you know?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, that was just coincidental. I was. That I was cast as the person living in Calabasas and that the. The Topanga Mall was my mall. Yeah, Very kismet. You know, like, things just work out the way they're supposed to.

[Doug Robb]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible, and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already. It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a media tour collide with a slow burn romance. It's performed by Simu Liu and Philippa sue, and it is an absolute, absolute blast.

[Danielle Fishel]

When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your

[Doug Robb]

words and what you thought was kind

[Danielle Fishel]

of a straightforward sentence, like, the cat in the corner is black. In my head, it's the cat in

[Doug Robb]

the corner is black.

[Danielle Fishel]

Not the dog, not the gerbil.

[Doug Robb]

But someone else might say it.

[Danielle Fishel]

The Cat in the corner is black. That's always fascinating to me how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.

[Doug Robb]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The official language of football is trash talk, late night group chats, memes and unbelievable highlight clips. That's why Boost Mobile brings you our new Global Connection Plan, the first plan ever made for WhatsApp. Get unlimited data, talk and text, international roaming and calls to over 100 countries for just $40 a month. $40 price includes $5 a month autopay discount after 40 gigabytes of premium high speed data. Speeds will be lowered. Coverage not available everywhere. Visit store or boost mobile.com for details.

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Awkward time to ask this, but hey,

[Doug Robb]

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I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network and if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well,

[Dan Estrin]

we've got T Satellite for backup. Whoa.

[Doug Robb]

I don't trust my carrier that much.

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We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

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[Dan Estrin]

mobile.com Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts

[Danielle Fishel]

why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole

[Doug Robb]

filled with images of alarmingly graphic source

[Danielle Fishel]

in various stages of ooze.

[Dan Estrin]

I can clear my search history, but

[Doug Robb]

I can never unsee that.

[Dan Estrin]

Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast.

[Doug Robb]

Healthcare just got less painful.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you remember your worst early show? Like you guys have formed a Band. And now you're gonna go perform somewhere and just. It's terrible. Or were you always awesome?

[Dan Estrin]

No, no, no. We've had a lot of horrible shows, I'm sure. But some of those ended up, in hindsight, were probably.

[Doug Robb]

None of it matters. None of it matters. I was like, horrible show is all.

[Dan Estrin]

Remember we did Summerfest.

[Doug Robb]

It's all here.

[Dan Estrin]

Like, Summerfest, which we call Summer Flop.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah. Like, is it horrible because there's nobody there? What if. What if you performed beautifully for nobody? Does that make it a bad show? I don't know. Like, back then, it might have. Because it's all ego. I'm getting a little too. Like, you're very deep, deep about this. Yeah, well, it's because we've been doing it for so long. At some point you have to. You know, all shows are not created equal. At some point, you have to figure out what it is that makes you comfortable. Like, is it how well you do or how well you feel you've done? Did you sing well? Did you perform well? Did you. Did the audience like it. Did they. Was it large but unengaged? Was it small but totally locked in? Like, what do you prefer? And I think you just have to take the wins from that. I was just thinking, the first show that we did, though, that I felt awkward, was pretty early on. It was the show at the Las Palmas Theater. And that was only, like, our second club show ever. Like, we'd only done, like, house parties, and we did a show at the Roxy. I think our second club show was at the Las Palmas Theater. And I remember thinking the show at the Roxy was awesome. Lots of people, like, the bar was set, and then we go play this other show at a different club not too, like, long after. And there was nobody there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Doug Robb]

And I don't necessarily remember thinking, like, God, this sucked. But I just. When you said that, I was like. I remember going, oh, okay. It's not all right. It's not all good.

[Dan Estrin]

Like, I think one of the worst shows that we had would have been in the height of everything. And. And it was when we did the MTV music awards, the VMAs. And that was because we get. You know, you go to do these things, and there's rehearsals. You're going to be on television performing, and it's live. There's these rehearsals day before, and you're getting all the sound dialed in. You're getting. We. We run in ear monitors so we can hear everything that way. So there's no monitors for us to Hear ourselves on stage. You're.

[Doug Robb]

I don't even think there's amps.

[Dan Estrin]

Right.

[Doug Robb]

Or they're.

[Dan Estrin]

I don't remember. But you're relying on everything that's coming through here in your ears. And we went through the rehearsals the day before, dialed everything in. It was great. And then we're up on stage the day of at the VMAs. You guys are going in two minutes, whatever it is. We're like, okay, cool. Yeah, we're gonna be on tv. Cool. MTV Music Awards. And then it starts. And everything was off in ears, so we couldn't hear what we were doing, which was hard for all of us. But specifically, probably you, because you had to sing. I could at least be like, pop one out and kind of hear a little bit what I was doing. And it was challenging because you're trying to.

[Doug Robb]

It was terrifying.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Doug Robb]

Live music Award show. You know, we're not even playing a full song. I think we're playing, like, 90 seconds of something, and boom, we walk out. And I think it was at the arena in Miami. So it's all just noise. It's live audience and stuff like that. And I'm like, dude, something doesn't feel right. And I immediately realized that nothing's working at all. Not even like, oh, it's too loud. It's just not working, working. So I. I pop my things out, and I'm trying to go by what I'm hearing, right? But there's all the slap back and whatever. And basically it was like flying blindfolded, you know, like. And, you know, I did the best I could at the time, but. But it was a wreck. It was 90 seconds of pure terror. Anxiety and terror. Yeah. To which, like, I spent the next decade plus trying to work through, to be honest. Really, like, dude, any. Any type of little hiccup in a performance, especially if it was, like, on radio or on tv, like, that would trigger this.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Doug Robb]

That. That thing again. Yeah. And the thing. Honestly, I didn't care that much. I just didn't care. I'm like, oh, it's 90 seconds. It was bad. Whatever like that. But people are just ruthless, you know?

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And I. Honestly, if it happened now, I would be able to go like, you guys, I don't care. Like, I don't care.

[Danielle Fishel]

Whatever.

[Doug Robb]

This is what happened. I don't care. But at that point in our career, that point of me just being a human being, it was too. I didn't have enough confidence to shield from outside opinion.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Doug Robb]

Like. Like I said today, I would I could care less, right.

[Danielle Fishel]

If I.

[Doug Robb]

My pants fell down in the middle. I wouldn't go whatever. It would. I'd laugh about it. But at that time, I was too vulnerable to that. Like, I still was leaning on what people's opinions were of the band. And of course, oh my God, you didn't think I sounded good? Like, ah, yeah, that was a tough one to get through. That was, that was probably moment performing in this band.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did it ever make you, like, refuse to wear in ears? Like, no, I can't trust that I don't want to do it.

[Doug Robb]

Didn't. It just made me go like, on to. What it really did is it made me be less harsh on other people.

[Dan Estrin]

It did.

[Doug Robb]

It made me go like, you know what?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, dude.

[Doug Robb]

This is a complicated, you know, industry. Performing is not, you know, it's, it's. It's an art. There's supposed to be humanness in it.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And if you mess up, that's fine. That's fine.

[Dan Estrin]

Right.

[Doug Robb]

Whereas in the past I might have been like, oh, that person sounded terrible. Oh my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, they don't have talent.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Not even that, but just they don't

[Danielle Fishel]

know what they're doing.

[Doug Robb]

Just been kind of dumb and immature about it. And it really made me go like, oh, dude, like now I'm on that side of the fence. Like, it's one of the reasons why I'll never accept singing the national anthem anywhere.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh.

[Doug Robb]

Because I've been offered a bunch and I've said no every time. And they're like, why? Like, it's going to be Monday Night Football. We're going to fly out to Philly. Like, Howard Benson was like, oh, we're going to all go too. We're going to do the whole thing. I'm like, howard, if I nail it, If I nail it, it's forgotten by kickoff.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

If I it up, it's immortalized. It's literally a lose lose. There's no win in this at all. And I don't even care. I'm not even like, oh, that's something I died to do. Just don't wanna do it.

[Danielle Fishel]

One of the things I say often that I am thankful gets better with age, is balancing risk versus reward. I'm so good at it now. I'm like, what's the reward? What's the reward here? Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

What am I?

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

What is the thing I would hope happens? And like you said, you go out there and nail it. And guess what? It means nothing to nobody except for you. And then the Risk. Like you mentioned, you botch the national anthem. It's talked about for a few days and it lives forever on the Internet. And you end up in clip shows as top 10 worst. You know. No, this. This is.

[Doug Robb]

There's a certain amount of. Of. Because there's so much media in general in all forms, that even the worst, what you might consider the most embarrassing, whatever, Mess up, just doesn't have a life span anymore.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Doug Robb]

Doesn't.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Doug Robb]

I don't know if that's good or bad. Plus the shamelessness of society in general. But, yeah, I don't.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

It's like you can mess up so bad now, right. And think in the moment.

[Dan Estrin]

This.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm gonna.

[Doug Robb]

I've basically done something so harmful to myself or career or whatever like that. And realize if you just stick your head out the window.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Nobody's paying attention. Nobody's paying. And even the ones that are, tomorrow, they will be paying attention to something else.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly.

[Doug Robb]

Like, it's kind of crazy how. How short the attention span has become even for.

[Danielle Fishel]

And we have a friend, too, who says that the only people who will talk to you about it, like, the people who will bring it up to you are the people, like the people closest to you because. But he says it's not fair. They basically have Google alerts for you on their phone. Like they're. You know them so well. It's being fed directly to them as if they had a Google alert. That's not what the population is like. No one knows. No one gives a shit. Okay. I wanted to list a few other bands from your class or groups who've just played Warped Tour around the time that you did. Maybe even names that have been mentioned in the same breath as Hoobastank at some point. And I want you to tell me who has the better name. Them. Or Hubastank.

[Doug Robb]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Alien Ant Farm.

[Dan Estrin]

Who has a better name?

[Doug Robb]

I think that's a clever name. I've always thought it was a clever name. We love those guys.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. I don't know. I. Yeah, absolutely love those guys.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm not trying to start any beef,

[Dan Estrin]

but I've always felt like their name was a little great. It was awesome.

[Danielle Fishel]

So we're gonna go with Hoobastank on that one.

[Doug Robb]

I don't like that. It's three words. How about that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Right.

[Doug Robb]

I'll take. I'll take Hooba's Neck. Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Bowling for Soup. Another three word.

[Doug Robb]

Another band that I love, like, personally, but I've never liked that. I've never liked that name either.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Dan Estrin]

We had. We did a show with them not too long ago, and Jarrett, the lead singer, wanted to do a tick tock with us about that. Like, who has the dumber name?

[Doug Robb]

Right?

[Dan Estrin]

And we ended up not doing it, but we will.

[Doug Robb]

Okay, but that's another thing that, like, I don't spend any time thinking about. Like, Right. I don't see those guys and go bowling for sleep. What a silly name. It's the name.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. At some point, it's just Jamiroquai or Chumbawamba or, you know, it just becomes the name.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

As stupid as it may sound when

[Doug Robb]

you first hear it.

[Dan Estrin]

When I hear you say our band name, I kind of. I'm like. And not because it's you. It's just hearing our name. Sometimes, like, if I run into somebody and, like, oh, you play in a band? Oh, what's.

[Danielle Fishel]

What's.

[Dan Estrin]

And I'm just waiting. I just. I'm waiting for it.

[Doug Robb]

Like, oh, what do you play?

[Dan Estrin]

I play guitar. What's the band called?

[Danielle Fishel]

Darn it.

[Dan Estrin]

I got it. And it's either they either know it right away, like, really, or it's what? What? And I gotta say it again and

[Doug Robb]

it'll be really bad. That's the worst. Oops. Mistake. No, no, like.

[Dan Estrin]

Like Scuba Tank.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

Scuba Stank. You know,

[Doug Robb]

what about.

[Danielle Fishel]

I wrestled a bear once.

[Doug Robb]

That's a band.

[Dan Estrin]

That's a band. Yeah, you just make that up now. It really is a band. I think Hubisang is. Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

But we're getting easier. I set my friends on fire.

[Doug Robb]

So I'm not a big fan. See, I don't know these fans personally, and. And I'll just go out. I'm just gonna say that they're better than us so they don't hurt any feelings. Okay. All these bands that you're saying they're better than us, but I'm not. I've never been a fan of bands with long names.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, long. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Like, I'm just like, dude, come on.

[Danielle Fishel]

Come on. We don't give us a mouthful.

[Dan Estrin]

Who else you got right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Gardening, not architecture. Yeah, see, that's a really hard one.

[Doug Robb]

Like I said, these are great bands. They're better than us, they're more successful, they're better looking. All of it. They're all of it. But I've just never been a fan of the long names like that. But like I said, who cares? Who cares? My band's called Hoobastang.

[Dan Estrin]

Who am I to Josh?

[Doug Robb]

Who Am I to say anything?

[Danielle Fishel]

I did notice a sentence that I think might be the most Y2K group of words ever uttered. And it really only works with your name. Koobastank's first single, Crawling in the Dark, was featured in the PlayStation 2 rollerblading game. Aggressive in line.

[Doug Robb]

I think he just opened a portal.

[Danielle Fishel]

Can you tell our younger listeners how important it was to have a song in a video game?

[Doug Robb]

I didn't know at the time, to be honest with you. I didn't. I remember our manager at the time just going like, yeah, we're gonna put it in this and this and this. And I'm like, why?

[Danielle Fishel]

Why?

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, who cares? Like, and then, you know, time passes and we see kids at shows going, oh my God, that's like my favorite song in this game. Yeah, I'm like, oh, man.

[Dan Estrin]

I always thought it was when people would say that they heard our song in that. I always thought to myself, like, it's just not as cool as it being in Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Pro Skater, which it wasn't in. And I'm like, if it was in,

[Doug Robb]

it will never be. No, no. Inline skating will never be as cool as skateboarding.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is my favorite video game.

[Dan Estrin]

Tony Hawk of all time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, I played that game, dude.

[Doug Robb]

I just had a flashback of the sound of you playing that in the back of the bus. Just imagine, just close your eyes and just hear the PlayStation controller going and stopping. And you don't even realize what you're doing. You're just going all these numbers, the dice and all these tricks and everything.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, yeah. Such a great. The first one was such a great game. I still have it. I think it was on like PlayStation 2.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was PlayStation 2. I could. I. There were a couple of days when I was not working that I was like, oh, I played this for nine hours. I played this for nine hours today. It was as if I had a full time job.

[Doug Robb]

How many combos can you do it?

[Dan Estrin]

That's what we. We would have competitions to see who could get more combos. We wouldn't even play the game. That's what we were doing. We'd pass the controller to the next guy. Okay, you.

[Danielle Fishel]

You do a combo?

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, you got to do ten in a row. Like,

[Danielle Fishel]

I also realized while you were recording your second album, Dan, you were seriously injured in a mini bike accident. Can we know all the details about that, please?

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, we were. We had just actually finished recording and did we even release the record yet?

[Doug Robb]

No, it was in between, like we had recorded it and mixed it and mastered, like, the artwork that. That time between our job being done and the record label now taking it and setting up, like, marketing and stuff like that. So there's a few month window.

[Dan Estrin]

We had just started this tour. We were In Myrtle Beach, S.C. we had to go early in the morning to a morning radio station to go do an interview. Doug and I, and we had our radio rep pick us up, who we ended up becoming friends with. And so we're like, hey, after the interview, can you take us somewhere cool? Whatever. And I don't know. We ended up at this meet at a place to that sold mini bikes. And Doug and I and our bass player and well, we. All four of us, we bought these. These bikes. These little mini.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Pocket rocket, like, okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Dan Estrin]

Gas powered, tiny. You look like clowns riding them. And we bought them that. That day.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're a tall guy.

[Dan Estrin]

I mean, thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

I need to be on a little bike.

[Dan Estrin]

I actually still have the bike. It's in my garage. And so we bought these bikes. I remember being super excited because I. I had seen them in like. Like movies when I was a kid. Went back to the house of blues that we were playing. We were cruising around all day long on these things, like riding around the venue, the parking lot, and then we'd head back to the tour bus. And the. They had like a rope tied off where the buses were so that fans wouldn't walk back there, although you could kind of dip underneath them and go. And we would just be riding, and as we were going back to the bus, we would kind of dip our heads like this and go under the rope and then put the bikes under the bus, go do sound check, whatever. Played the show, finish the show. I'm in the back playing Tony Hawk or something like that of the bus, eating pizza or something like that. And I hear Doug yell like, dan, we're going for a ride.

[Doug Robb]

Like, let's go.

[Dan Estrin]

Let's go ride around the parking lot. And I'm like, I'm cool. I'm playing video games. He's like, let's go. And I was like, all right, let's go. Totally sober. Went out for this ride. We weren't wearing helmets. We were riding around, going fast, just being idiots, whatever. And then slowing down like, you're coming to the end of the ride. You're going really slow. We went to go dip under. I went to go dip under the. The rope, but I had kind of forgot that they had. That they had tied up a second rope underneath it. That was a little bit lower. And he was right behind me. And I remember it. It hitting me right across the. Right here. And it threw me back, and I. I hit my head. But I remember thinking to myself, as it happened, I just bought this motorcycle. It was a thousand dollars. I don't want to scratch it. And I held the bike up. Oh, to not scratch it. And I hit my head. And it didn't look that bad.

[Doug Robb]

And we weren't going super fast. You see people fall all the time. It didn't seem that. That serious. You know, he gets up, gets on the bus. Time passes. He's getting a headache.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, man.

[Doug Robb]

Honestly, I didn't, you know, I didn't think anything of it. And then our tour manager's like, we should go get this checked out before we go to the next city. And it was getting progressively worse and worse and worse. So we ended up going to the er so it was getting really bad.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you all go with him?

[Doug Robb]

It was just me and the tour manager.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah. And then at some point, it was getting really bad. Like, he, you know, like, basically writhing on. On the bed going, dude, like this. My head is hurting so bad. So they. They X rayed him, and there was a. Like, a little fracture and a blood clot forming. And so they said, yeah, dude, you need to. You need to get. You need brain surgery right now. You need to release the pressure on this thing. So, yeah, I. I feel like it was either me or the tour manager was the one who gave the green light to cut him open, Doc, like, yeah, let's. Let's do this. And, yeah, the next day, they had his head shaved and recovering from head surgery. South Carolina.

[Dan Estrin]

You know when you have a night out of drinking and like, a day or two later, you're reflecting on that night and it's. It's. You remember bits and pieces of it. It's blurry, but whatever. And so that's kind of how my memory is of that night. And we were driving to the emergency room in a cab before Uber, and so, like. And we had told the. I remember my tour manager was like, can you step on it? Can we go fast? And we got pulled over by the cops. Oh, my God. We told the cops what happened, and they didn't care. They still wrote us a ticket, got to the hospital, and I just remember being in this room, and it's a super. It was very, very blurry and wasn't feeling well at all. And my head just started getting worse and worse. And, like, I. I remember I had to. I had to pee really bad, and I couldn't get my belt undone or something. And I'm, like, complaining about it. I remember you're like, helped me out, whatever it was. And I think I peed in a trash can or something like that is what I. I don't remember, but I kind of remember that. And then I remember the doctor coming in and starting to take. Tell me what was going on, but I couldn't really understand what was going on. And then I just remember Doug saying, they need to do surgery on you right now. Something like that, you know? And I was just like, I don't care. Just get me out of this pain. Please get me out of this pain. And then I don't know that this happened, but I remember. All I remember was something going over me like this. And then I was out. And my hair was long, a little bit longer than it is now at the time. And I remember waking up to them shaving it, and they shaved only half of it off. So I had half a head of hair that was long, and then half of it was bald. And like he said, I woke up the next day and there was a tube sticking out of my head. I just remember opening my eyes, and the band guys and the crew guys all walked in and started taking photos around me. I remember everyone's just like, we just started kind of. I mean, I was out of it, but I was still. Yeah, he's kind of joking around. And then I remember my mom and my sister walking in, and they lived in Calabasas, and, like, they flew out, and I just remember they walked in and I was like, wow, okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you remember that you were in South Carolina?

[Dan Estrin]

I knew where I was. Okay. Yeah. But I wasn't. I was on morphine and I wasn't thinking clearly at all. Yeah. And. Yeah, I just. I remember that kind of. And I had to stay in the hospital. I don't even know how.

[Doug Robb]

Remember the first thing you told me? What was the first thing he told you? No, it was like, he's like, doug, Doug. And he's like, you know, have sleep like that. I forget what the context was, but I'm like, what? What? I'm close. And he's like, I got a tube in my.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

So he had a catheter, but he wanted to tell me.

[Dan Estrin]

You know, there was always something like that. Like, in the worst times ever, there's always, like, a little bit of humor, you know, like, that was the cool

[Doug Robb]

thing he wanted to tell me about.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. And I remember I knew he'd get a kick out of it. I just remember being like, messed up and going like, I gotta tell somebody. This would be kinda funny.

[Doug Robb]

Somebody's gotta know.

[Dan Estrin]

But yeah, I was. I ended up flying home and we canceled the rest of the tour. I had to go home, have photos of me with this huge scar that goes like this across my head. Half my head's bald and the other half is long and I needed a haircut. So Doug came over to my house and he shaved the rest of my head and did a mohawk. And we ended up taking all the hair. Remember that?

[Doug Robb]

Yes, we took the hair. We made a wig.

[Dan Estrin]

We took the hair and we scooped it into a bowl and then evenly distributed all the hair and then hair sprayed the out of it. And then we all wore it. We all wore it into photos. And I have the photos too. My photos of Doug wearing it, me wearing it. It just looks so stupid.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah.

[Dan Estrin]

And I ended up. Ended up healing. And I have no feeling on the side of my head still.

[Doug Robb]

Nerve damage.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, nerve damage. And if I was to shave my head, you'd see this scar right here. Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wear helmets, kids.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Because even going slow, you know, crazy.

[Doug Robb]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Wil Wheaton, who played Gordie Lachance in stand by me 40 years ago and now narrates Stephen King's the Body, the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix in the recording booth. And why the friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have.

[Dan Estrin]

I know Gordie Lachance. I am Gordie Lachance. Like, I mean, even when I was

[Doug Robb]

a little kid, I was Gordy Lachance

[Dan Estrin]

when I didn't know it.

[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

Awkward time to ask this, but hey,

[Doug Robb]

did you download the trail map?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, no, I don't need to.

[Doug Robb]

I don't understand.

[Dan Estrin]

You're trusting your signal out here.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network and if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well,

[Doug Robb]

we've got T Satellite for backup.

[Dan Estrin]

Whoa.

[Doug Robb]

I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Danielle Fishel]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

and 35 connection charge per line credits

[Doug Robb]

and imbalance due if you pay off earlier.

[Dan Estrin]

Cancel Contact Us Finance Agreement example 299.99

[Doug Robb]

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[Dan Estrin]

Cancel anytime visit t mobile.com Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I I can't

[Doug Robb]

stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type then say out loud.

[Dan Estrin]

There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24.

[Doug Robb]

7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well on that second album is the reason a favorite of all time for me and many many others. Where did the inspiration for that song a bit of a ballad come from?

[Doug Robb]

When you say a bit of a ballad that makes me go like that makes me think that you're implying guys we should write a ballad. You know like, you know like which. Which honestly was a common question or misconception. On our self titled album we had some mellow songs, we just never released them. Yep, on the the independent album we put out on our own prior to record deal we had some songs that were more mellow. It wasn't so much at least from my perspective in the bands I feel like it was just like oh when we put out music there's going to be a certain percentage that's probably up tempo and Heavy. And there's maybe one or two songs that are mellow.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

Just for balance almost, you know. So when we recorded it, it was on the album. That's kind of how I saw it. I never saw it like, guys, we just did something, in fact post, you know, recording the album and mixing. You have the powwow with the producer and the record label and the management, stuff like that. And you go around thinking, like, discussing what's. What's gonna be the single, possibly a second single. And I don't think anybody chose that song. Not because we didn't. Okay. But it just isn't. It was the same. There was a really mellow song on the first album called To Be with youh. In my head, I'm. Well, that's that. That's this song for that. It's just a mellow kind of a breather on the album. Good song, proud of it, but never had any intention or foresight to see what it would do. So, yeah, that's inspiration wise. It wasn't something different than what we did.

[Danielle Fishel]

When did you know it was sticking? Like, oh my gosh, this song is really sticking for us.

[Dan Estrin]

We knew that there was something about it. Well, the record label really liked it. We had to go to some big meeting with all like the bigwigs at the record label and listen to the record with them at this huge table with everybody sitting around it. And when it got to that song, just like he said we were, it was just another. I was proud of the song because I felt like the album had some like, diversity, you know, heavy songs, mid template songs and slow songs. By the time we got to the second chorus, fourth, last chorus, they were. They were singing like. There was. The heads of the company were like singing the chorus already and had just. We're just really excited about it. We're like. We were. Got excited because they got excited. Yeah. Like, okay, great. They're.

[Danielle Fishel]

They're happy.

[Dan Estrin]

I don't know. I mean, I don't know when we realized it was.

[Doug Robb]

There was a moment. One of the first tours that we did on that album was Linkin Park's Meteora tour. And there was a moment, I wanna say, towards the end of that tour, we started where that song had become a single, which we had fought against, smartly fought against and lost. We lost the battle for the. Changing the name. And so maybe they were talking about,

[Danielle Fishel]

just don't trust your instincts.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

And so we started playing it and I want to say it was Atlanta. I could be wrong. I remember playing the song and the reaction was, like, ridiculous. Like nothing I'd ever seen. And we'd been a relatively successful band up to that point. You know, like, we had some successful songs. And so I was used to the reaction of, oh, that's the big single.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Doug Robb]

But I. I started seeing this thing like, oh, dude, this is huge. And then playing with. Playing shows with Incubus and these other bands. Those are the type. The guys that would be like, would you guys sew this week? Would you guys sell this week? You know, like, they would keep track

[Danielle Fishel]

numbers at other bands.

[Doug Robb]

Yeah, like, oh, we did this this week. And at some point we started passing them. And that's when I started going like, oh, dude, this is. This is kind of out of our control now. Like, it's.

[Danielle Fishel]

You mentioned Atlanta. I wonder if it was music Midtown 2004.

[Doug Robb]

I mean, I definitely remember those festivals. I loved those festivals.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, I have to tell you, I looked when I came across this in research, I have to read to you the small sampling of what concertgoers saw that weekend. And Hoobastank, Puddle of Mud, Ludacris, Journey, Foo Fighters, Wyclef, Jessica Simpson, Hole, the Strokes, Jason Mraz, and Bob Dylan.

[Doug Robb]

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

[Dan Estrin]

We did that festival.

[Doug Robb]

I think it's like a food court.

[Dan Estrin]

Yeah. I remember standing on stage, looking out and not being able to see where the audience ended. It was just a sea of people and. And it was pretty surreal.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's pretty amazing. Well, now you guys have your new song, your first in eight years. And it is a return to your roots of sorts. Maybe not the costumes, but it is a jump back into punk. How do youo Sleep? I love it. I made sure I listened to it several times before I talked to you. Well, what made you guys wanna get back into the studio? Or are you always in the studio? You just decided to release this one?

[Doug Robb]

Like you said, we put something out in 2018. I don't know. I feel like. I don't want to say. We've spent a lot of time kind of searching, like, trying to find our way back. Like you said, it's like a return to punk, which, ironically, I would have never described us as punk, but we've been described as punk. Early on, I can only speak for myself. And from 2018, 2019 through, like, 2022, there was just a lot of going on in my life personally, along with COVID and all this other stuff, you know, that I had to deal with. It wasn't the most, you know, it wasn't the best environment for me creatively. And during that time, Dan and everybody else in the band, they continue to write and send me. And I kind of feel like once I got through what I needed to get through, I felt. I don't want to say inspired, but I just felt kind of normal again. And there's. I mean, even musically, though, like, you've gone through. Well, we all have, like, phases of, like, you want to do a little bit less this and less this, and. And I kind of felt like me coming back to feeling like I'm in a normal creative space, linked up with you, starting to write these ideas that kind of reminded me of earlier stuff, and they were kind of inspiring for me. And honestly, we just like, let's record these. Let's demo these. So he sends me the idea. I sing stuff over, I send it back. We go back and forth until we have this kind of pseudo song. And the producer who did a few of our records, Howard Benson, who's also Calabasas, he's a friend of ours, and he's. Over the years, he's always checked in with us and been like, what do you guys have? Anything? What do you got? And we've sent him stuff before, and honestly, a lot of times he's like, that's cool. But maybe, yeah, maybe like, this. And it never would pan out. But we sent him sometime last year, we sent him these ideas, and he was blown away. He was really excited about it, and so it just kind of made sense. We're like, let's. Yeah, let's record these songs. And then it got into, like, well, are we gonna do an album? Are we gonna do a song? We kind of just settled on. Let's just do one at a time or a batch at a time and see what happens from there. So we ended up recording four songs, and I. I don't know. I'm really stoked on the way they turned out. I've detached myself from the outcome.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep.

[Doug Robb]

You know, great. Do I like the songs when I listen to them? Yes. Do I like the process? Do I like everything? Yes. And then that's it.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's it.

[Doug Robb]

I win. We win.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct.

[Doug Robb]

Everything else is out of my hands. And so we have more songs that we want to record, and maybe we'll put them all together and put, like, a proper album.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, I would love that. I'm forcing Dan and Doug to hang out for just a little bit longer. We dive even deeper into Hoobastank lore and play A listener's voicemail details their own embarrassing teenage moment. It drops this Friday on the dedicated Teen Beat feed and listen. A lot is happening over there, including my new recap podcast for Dancing with the Stars, the Next Pro with co host Val Chmerkovsky. All you have to do is search for Teen Beat wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe. That way you never miss another moment and send me your voice memos. I want to hear your embarrassing moments. Record a voice memo no longer than two minutes and email it to teenbeatpodmail.com you may just hear it on the next episode. You can hear the first new song from Hoobastank in almost a decade. How do you sleep wherever you stream music and catch them this summer on the road if they stop in your city like North Ridgeville, Ohio on August 15th or Gillette, Wyoming on August 29th. Check dates now on hubastank.com thank you guys. 818 Forever Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, Producer and Editor Tara Sudbaksh. The theme song is by Mark Hoppus. Yes, that Mark Hoppus. Follow us on Instagram teenbeatpod

[Doug Robb]

the official language of football is trash talk, late night group chats, memes and unbelievable highlight clips. That's why Boost Mobile brings you our new global connection plan. The first plan ever made for WhatsApp. Get unlimited data, talk and text, international roaming and calls to over 100 countries for just $40 a month. Forty dollar price includes five dollar a month auto pay discount after 40 gigabytes of premium high speed data speeds will be lowered. Coverage not available everywhere. Visit store or boost mobile.com for details.

[Dan Estrin]

Big transfer news today.

[Doug Robb]

Who's moving me to the couch with Domino's? Best deal ever since they just added stuff. Crust any pizza any toppings now with stuffed crust for $9.99. It's a long term contract with no release clause only 9.99. Yeah, that sounds like the move I'm heading straight to Dun. Price is higher for some locations, excludes Excel and specialty pizzas. Select this offer from 615 through 726 online only.

[Dan Estrin]

Size availability varies by crust type.

[Doug Robb]

Max 7 topping 6 for pan and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary if

[Dan Estrin]

you're alignment in charge of keeping the lights on.

[Doug Robb]

Grainger understands that you go to great

[Dan Estrin]

lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing, which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery so

[Doug Robb]

you have everything you need to get the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by

[Dan Estrin]

Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Danielle Fishel]

For 20 years, they had a friendship that was bulletproof. Literally. Octavia Spencer and Hannah Waddingham star in Prime Video's hilarious, action packed new series Ride or Die.

[Doug Robb]

When Debbie is forced on the run

[Danielle Fishel]

because of her husband's corrupt dealings, only her fierce and lethal secret assassin best friend Judith can save her. What follows is a wild race across Europe packed with action, laughs and danger. Don't miss the new series Ride or Die, now streaming only on Prime Video.

[Doug Robb]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.