Danielle Fishel (1:54)

You know, I never realized how much better I treat my dog than myself.

Ryder Strong (1:58)

Really? Does your dog eat Oreos with every meal and get massages when he stays at hotels?

Danielle Fishel (2:03)

No. Even better, he gets Pedigree high quality food with real nutrition that actually supports his health.

Ryder Strong (2:10)

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Ryder Strong (3:33)

So the last time we recorded, we.

Danielle Fishel (3:36)

Had Ernie on Ernie Reyes Jr. Ernie.

Ryder Strong (3:39)

Reyes Jr. Talking about his incredible martial arts background and experience. And it reminded me of a story I don't think I've ever told you guys.

Will Friedle (3:48)

Oh, gee.

Mark Summers (3:48)

Do you.

Ryder Strong (3:49)

Do you know about my audition for the Three Ninjas?

Will Friedle (3:52)

No, no, no.

Ryder Strong (3:55)

Technically, it was Three Ninjas kickback, which, if you look up, you might notice my old friend Sean Fox is one of the three ninjas in Three Ninjas Kickback.

Mark Summers (4:06)

He is.

Ryder Strong (4:08)

The story behind that is we both got the audition. So this would have been pre boy meets world, I guess. I was 11 or 12. We were at the Oakwoods. He was staying with my family at the time, and he was a genuine martial artist. Sean had taken martial arts since he was 6, 7, had done multiple forms, was really good. I had not taken martial arts thanks to karate kid at 6. I got really into kung fu for a year year. And I. I made it to an orange belt, I think, which is the second belt. Right. You go white belt, orange belt. And I got two stripes on my orange belt. And then quit. So I could not kick or punch to save my life.

Danielle Fishel (4:55)

Okay, but a full year of kung fu, and you still couldn't kick or punch?

Ryder Strong (4:59)

No, I could. I'm being. I'm, you know, exaggerating.

Danielle Fishel (5:01)

All right.

Ryder Strong (5:02)

But what I did love to do, which my son Indy also loves to do now, is stunts like I love.

Will Friedle (5:08)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (5:08)

Throwing my body around, pretending to be hurt. Pratt falls, all that stuff hitting your.

Will Friedle (5:13)

Face into a door. You were famous with that.

Ryder Strong (5:15)

Yeah. So Sean and I were both. We both had auditions for the Three Ninjas Kickback. The other three ninjas had just come out and been a huge hit. And this one was going to Japan. So we were like, we want this movie. We could both be in this movie. If we're both great, because there's brothers, maybe one of us, you know? So we decide rather than going in for the audition, where you just do the audition, and then they wanted a martial arts demonstration, we're going to do a demonstration together.

Mark Summers (5:41)

Oh.

Ryder Strong (5:43)

So we found the. The room at the Oakwood Apartments. Like, there was, like, a main lobby area or whatever, like a.

Will Friedle (5:49)

Okay.

Ryder Strong (5:49)

I don't even know what it was. It was a gathering space, and we cleared it out and spent, like, five hours developing a fight, which quickly became. Just Sean kicking the crap out.

Mark Summers (6:01)

Yeah, exactly.

Ryder Strong (6:04)

And then I throw. And then you throw me over here, and you get up and kick me, and then I fall here. Right. But it was so much fun. So we finished this up, and we're like, all right, we got our thing. It's tomorrow morning. We've got our audition. And that night, my brother Sean's staying with us at the Oakwoods. My brother decides it's the night we're gonna sneak out.

Danielle Fishel (6:25)

Oh, gosh.

Ryder Strong (6:25)

And go see Haley, the girl that my brother is in love with who lives down the hall at the Oakwoods. But if we sneak out the window, my mom will never know that we went out. And Haley has a friend visiting, so all three of us should go and, like, hang out with Haley all night.

Danielle Fishel (6:40)

Right?

Ryder Strong (6:40)

And, like, nobody's even kissed Haley. This is just. But Haley is 16, has her own apartment. We're Shiloh's. Maybe 14. I'm 12, right? So we're like, okay, okay, Shiloh. We'll sneak up. So we push the screen out of our window. We sneak out. We go down the hall. Building Q, I think we were in or down the outside area, like, little pathway to get to her window, knock on her window. She lets us in. We end up staying there until six in the morning.

Will Friedle (7:11)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (7:12)

No sleep. Sean and I have to do this physical. Big audition for producers in the morning. This is like, producers we maybe had already read. And this was the producer's callback to do our demonstration. So we. We get back to the room at 6am and our auditions in, like, two hours. And I am just exhausted. And I'm like, I have to. I have to go to sleep. And Sean is. Why Is beyond his ears. Is like, Ryder, at this point, we just need to stay awake. If you go to sleep, it's gonna be worse.

Will Friedle (7:38)

And I was like, I don't care.

Danielle Fishel (7:39)

I'm gonna. Right? And you passed out.

Ryder Strong (7:41)

20 minutes later. My mom's like, guys, get up. Let's have some cereal. Let's Go to the audition, and I am literally falling asleep in my bowl of Cheerios. And Sean's doing fine. He's ready to go.

Danielle Fishel (7:54)

Oh, my God.

Will Friedle (7:55)

Well, it was his martial arts training.

Mark Summers (7:56)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (7:57)

So we go, uh, we do this audition, and one of the most embarrassing experiences. Now, the. The fight was fine. Like, okay, I don't even remember the. The actual read. I'm sure we read and did, like, acting part, but of course, what the big thing was that we did this fight, and sure enough, like, when it was over, they just looked at us and they were like, well, we know who probably choreographed this one. Oh, it just made Sean look so good. It was like, yeah, okay. And then they were like, now can you guys do. And they named Some kind of. And I was like.

Will Friedle (8:32)

And Sean Roundhouse was just like, prior roundhouse kick.

Ryder Strong (8:34)

And it was a jumpy. It was like he jumped and just spun and did some kind of kick. But they just said something, and he was like, sure. And did it. And then they were like, can you. I was like, sure. Good, good. Good actor. With, you know, everything on my. I can juggle. I can speak another language. I can whatever. What do you need? What do you. So I tried. And I mean, just when I think about me jumping in the air and trying to spin and do this kick, I mean, I can't see myself, but.

Danielle Fishel (9:03)

I can fully picture it.

Ryder Strong (9:04)

Oh, it's so.

Danielle Fishel (9:05)

But you can feel the cringe when I look back.

Ryder Strong (9:08)

I'm outside of my body watching little rider flail, and all I wanted to do was sleep.

Danielle Fishel (9:14)

All you wanted to do was nap.

Will Friedle (9:15)

My guess is it's a flying roundhouse kick or a jumping roundhouse kick is what they asked for him to do.

Ryder Strong (9:20)

Just for the record.

Will Friedle (9:21)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (9:22)

No, but see, I feel like I would have known what that is. Right? You say that. I'm like, I can imagine what that is. Whatever they said, I was like.

Mark Summers (9:30)

Anyway.

Ryder Strong (9:31)

Sean got the part.

Danielle Fishel (9:32)

Yeah. What a surprise. Sean booked it.

Ryder Strong (9:34)

Sean booked it. Did you have to find out why you just said.

Will Friedle (9:38)

Because you're right. There was a three. Three ninjas one. The three ninjas. So do you know why they ended up recasting all three of the ninjas? Where they didn't get too old.

Ryder Strong (9:46)

Yeah. They just got older. They were just.

Mark Summers (9:48)

No, but.

Will Friedle (9:48)

So, but was the family in the second one supposed to be three different ninjas, or was it supposed to be the same characters?

Ryder Strong (9:53)

Same characters. But I think it was just long enough after that. They wanted to keep the kids the same age.

Will Friedle (9:58)

Okay.

Ryder Strong (9:59)

And, you know, I Think it was the era where it was like, kids are replaceable.

Mark Summers (10:03)

Right.

Ryder Strong (10:03)

But actually, Sean, when he got cast, they signed him for three films. So maybe they didn't have contracts for those first kids. And then those kids were like, well, now you gotta pay us. And they're like, well, screw you. We can just replace you.

Will Friedle (10:14)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (10:15)

And that first one. The first one is not bad. The one that Sean is in, not great. Not the best kid. Ninja enjoys it because Uncle Sean is in it. Let's put it there. Indy was really into it because Uncle Sean was in it. Uh, yeah. And, you know, he had a lot of fun. He got to go to Japan and make this movie and. Yeah, that one didn't do as well.

Will Friedle (10:39)

No, that was my. So horror movies for you as a kid, or like, those kind of movies for you as a kid were karate and ninja movies for me. That's all I watched.

Ryder Strong (10:48)

But you never took martial arts. You never did it.

Will Friedle (10:49)

I, in my head, didn't need it because I was already a trained assassin. So, yeah, my dad. My nickname for my father to this day is still ninja. Cause that's all I ever wanted to do.

Ryder Strong (11:01)

And you called your dad ninja?

Will Friedle (11:02)

No, my dad calls me ninja to this day. Cause when I was a little kid, he would tell me ninja stories. And, you know, he would always. We'd be. You know, he'd tuck me in and he'd go, all right, who do you want to save tonight? And this was, you know, first grade, whatever, kindergarten. And I'd pick the cutest girl in class. And my dad would tell me a story like, okay, so she's walking home from school, and there are always ruffians. She was always attacked by ruffians.

Danielle Fishel (11:21)

Ruffians. Of course. They were probably doing a J.

Will Friedle (11:24)

They were doing a J, these ruffians. And then I would jump out of the trees. Because, of course, I was secretly trained by a ninja clan in Japan, even though I was six.

Ryder Strong (11:31)

See, you would have loved the three Ninjas. Kick Back. That's exactly the story.

Will Friedle (11:36)

They took my dad's ninja stories. I wonder if I could still call the Witch, because it was. I mean, those movies were. Sho Kosugi was my God growing up. He was in all the ninja movies. Revenge of the Ninja, Return of the Ninja. It was just.

Mark Summers (11:49)

Oh, God, those are the best.

Will Friedle (11:50)

So those three ninja movies were great. I never saw Kickback. I've got to be honest with you. I tapped out after the first one.

Danielle Fishel (11:57)

Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

Ryder Strong (11:58)

I'm Ryder Strong.

Will Friedle (11:59)

And I'm will friedle.

Danielle Fishel (12:06)

Anyone else ever get that nagging feeling your dog is bored? Like my brunchie just stares at me sometimes with that really again look, and I instantly feel guilty.

Will Friedle (12:17)

Yeah, same here. Sammy has mastered the art of the disappointed sigh like she has bills. So mealtime needs to be more than just a pit stop. It needs to be an event.

Danielle Fishel (12:26)

That's why we're obsessed with Nom Nom. They make gently cooked recipes that actually engage your pup's senses. We're talking tantalizing smells, textures and vibrant ingredients.

Will Friedle (12:37)

And Nom Nom offers six delicious and unique Pork Potluck, Chicken Cuisine, Turkey Fare, Beef Mash, Lamb Pilaf, and Turkey and Chicken Cookout.

Danielle Fishel (12:46)

These recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists with premium proteins and vibrant veggies cooked in small batches to lock in nutrients. Meat looks like meat. Veggies look like veggies. So I feel good knowing it's designed with my dog's health and happiness in mind.

Will Friedle (13:02)

You can serve Nom Nom as your dog's complete meal or as a topper to spice up their current diet. Cause honestly, would you want to eat the same thing every single day?

Danielle Fishel (13:10)

No thanks. And look, our dog is our little prince, which is why I'm committed to giving him the best. I serve Nom Nom and you should too.

Will Friedle (13:19)

Keep mealtime exciting with Nom Nom available at your local Pet Smart store or at Chewy.

Danielle Fishel (13:23)

Learn more@trynom.com world that's spelled try n o m.com world. You know, if you can find joy in the small moment, life will always be that much more fun.

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Yay. Take hello's Anti Plaque and Whitening Fluoride Free Toothpaste, for instance. It will brighten your routine and delight your senses with a formula that's equal parts fresh, friendly and has plaque fighting power.

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Or see the difference that a whitening toothpaste powered by vitamin C can do for your smile with hello's Vitamin C Whitening Fluoride Toothpaste with thoughtful and fun.

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So say hello to Happy to making the most of every moment.

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Say hello to a vegan cruelty free and never tested on animals toothpaste and.

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Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, you're reheating the same cup of coffee for the third time. One kid can't find his water cup and the other is crying because their socks feel too spicy. That's why Mott's no Sugar Added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch made with real apples, chocolate, no sugar added and the pouch? Genius. It's mess free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox or after school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about and a good source of vitamin C too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day I handed one to my kid during rush hour traffic. Instant silence. He went from feral raccoon to calm librarian in two squeezes flat. Trust me, your future self will thank you Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn more@mots.com you ever find a dusty old VHS tape labeled Spring Break 98 and think, wow, do I even own something that plays this anymore? Because last time I tried I put it in a toaster. Don't recommend it. Look, our family spent years recording everything. Birthdays, dance recitals, that one Thanksgiving where Uncle Jerry deep fried his eyebrows. But now it's all just sitting in boxes forever sent to memory jail. That's why I use Legacy Box. I just ship them a bunch of my old tapes, film reels, and even photos. It is super easy. You get a box, you toss everything in it, and their team hand digitizes it right here in the us. It's like magic. Now I've got my family memories on a thumb drive and in the cloud so I can text my friends footage of their embarrassing 1994 bangs whenever I want. And don't forget about my interpretive dance to Mambo Number five. You're welcome. Group Chat Over a million families have used Legacy Box and honestly, it feels good to finally preserve your precious memories. Don't let your family's story fade away on outdated formats. Preserve it. Share it, pass it on. Go to legacybox.com meets world to get 50 off today. That's legacybox.com meets world.

Will Friedle (16:39)

We all have that piece.

Mark Summers (16:41)

You know the one, the thing that's so you. You've basically become known for it.

Danielle Fishel (16:46)

And if you don't have yours yet, you'll find it on ebay.

Mark Summers (16:49)

Putting you on here, fashionistas. Ebay is where you'll find those One of a kind.

Danielle Fishel (16:54)

Can't stop researching.

Mark Summers (16:55)

Stay up dreaming about pieces again and again.

Danielle Fishel (16:59)

I'm talking that Miu Miu off the Runway red leather bomber, that cousteau Barcelona.

Will Friedle (17:05)

Top with the cowboy on it, or.

Danielle Fishel (17:08)

That Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway.

Mark Summers (17:11)

All these finds are on ebay and.

Danielle Fishel (17:14)

They even offer millions of main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion eBay, things people love. As a nostalgia podcast deeply rooted in the 80s and 90s, there are certain subjects we find ourselves frequently circling. Obviously tgif, the programming block we all called home for seven seasons, and the Disney Channel, another network where our show later aired in Cindy Dedication. I mean, one of us has an entire podcast dedicated to just the original films that channel aired. But when we take a step back, there is one entire outlet of kids entertainment that we often neglect. And that same guy with the DCOM podcast, well, he started his career there. I'm talking about Nickelodeon. Launched in 1979, commercial free for its first five years, it became a powerhouse in the industry with things you normally can't do on television, all in the form of scripted series, variety shows, animated classics, preschool targeted programming, and one very disgusting game show. It was called Double Dare and It ran from 1986 to 1993, forcing teams to compete for cash and prizes by answering trivia questions and completing messy physical challenges. Almost instantly, the presence of Double Dare tripled viewership for the channel and became the most watched original daily programming on all of cable tv. And at the front and center of this phenomenon was the show's host, a man who somehow kept it all together, dodging slime, whipped cream pies, boogers, eggs, shaving cream seltzer, and child sized chocolate sundaes from the traditional school of broadcasters and became a hall of fame host in one of the least traditional game shows ever. He's since enjoyed even more success on the Food Network and in a one man show all about his life and career. All endeavors involving a little less chaos. This week on Pod Meets World, we are honored to sit down with an icon of our childhood. It's the host of Double Dare and so much more. Please welcome Mark Summers.

Mark Summers (19:29)

Hello.

Ryder Strong (19:31)

Hi.

Mark Summers (19:32)

How are you?

Danielle Fishel (19:33)

So good to see you, Mark.

Mark Summers (19:35)

Good to be seen.

Danielle Fishel (19:36)

Thank you for spending some time with us today.

Mark Summers (19:39)

My pleasure. Looking forward to it.

Danielle Fishel (19:41)

So Will Friedle here was on Nickelodeon with you at the same time. And Will spent so much time trying to find a clip or somewhere where he worked with you because he knows.

Will Friedle (19:55)

He did Oh, I know I did. I mean we did Nick takes over your school and all that kind of stuff together. So I was on don't just sit there back in the day.

Mark Summers (20:02)

Oh, you did? Don't just sit there.

Will Friedle (20:03)

I did. Don't just sit there. So I was one of the hosts of don't you sit there. So we saw you all the time. I mean I was.

Mark Summers (20:09)

Oh my God. I went in and produced a week of that when the regular guy came. Couldn't be there. We were in some horrible spot on like a 33rd and 11th. It was amazing.

Will Friedle (20:17)

That. Yeah, you. That was at the first. I started second season. We were at 55th. We're at Unitel at 55th and 9th.

Mark Summers (20:22)

Which was much nicer by the way. Yes, there were. There were fewer hookers there, which was nice. But. Oh my God, I always love that show. But for some reason it didn't catch on. I think we were a little ahead of our time back then.

Will Friedle (20:37)

I think so too. Yeah, we were. I think we did two or three seasons, but it was. And then we went down to Florida and we opened up the Universal Studios Florida there. You know, we had that big three hour live spectacular. So I was there with you for all of it. And I can't find a single clip of the two of us together.

Mark Summers (20:51)

It was very strange. You stay in touch with the other people from don't you sit there.

Will Friedle (20:54)

I do. We actually. We had our. Was like 40 or 30 year reunion here in Los Angeles. Everybody flew out and stayed at the house last year. So I was with Matt. Matt Brown and Ali Smith and Wendy Douglas wasn't here but she zoomed in and with the whole band and everybody. Yeah, it was. We had a great time.

Mark Summers (21:10)

It was so much fun. And you know, book some great guests on that show.

Will Friedle (21:13)

You know we did we new Kids on the Block when they were just starting and I think Neil Patrick Harris came on. I mean we had.

Mark Summers (21:19)

Really.

Will Friedle (21:19)

Yeah, we're. My first interview ever was Weird Al Yankovic, which is. And Michael Richards for uhf. So we had. It was for anybody who doesn't know what don't you sit there was. We were like a kids Saturday Night Live. We had special guests and a band and did skits and it was just a ton of fun.

Mark Summers (21:35)

So one time I was on with Harvey and our producers and writers and we pretended to come up with a theme song for don't just sit there. And it was me dressed as Elvis just saying for two and a half minutes, don't just sit there. Now you don't sit there. I mean, it was just the stupidest thing in the world.

Will Friedle (21:52)

Nickelodeon in the 80s, it was the best.

Ryder Strong (21:53)

But that's such a great, like, you know, the idea of doing like a kids variety show is really smart. Like, my son would love to watch that. Like, I'm. I want that. I want that now. Like, we need this, you know, right now. Everything is so, you know, because of streaming, like, everybody's in their own little thing. But the idea of like a live show or show that even just with a live audience that brings kids together, like Double dare Ditch, you know, like, those were so fun back in the day.

Will Friedle (22:19)

Like they did things that they don't do anymore. Like, you know, an audience member was our announcer. So every, every week we'd pick a new audience member who would stand up and say, like, you know, hey, I'm John from Secaucus, New Jersey, and welcome to. Don't just sit there. And it was always somebody different every week. And then the band would come on. It was really, really cool.

Mark Summers (22:37)

Yeah, the impact that Nickelodeon had back in the day was pretty amazing. Doesn't sadly have that same sort of impact anymore, you know, because kids watch their phones and their iPads and if you say to them, what's Nickelodeon? They don't even know. It's a whole different world.

Will Friedle (22:52)

They'll know the shows. They'll know individual shows like, oh, I know, Phineas and Ferb for Disney or something like that. They'll know. But the network itself is just kind of not a thing anymore.

Mark Summers (23:02)

It's really not. If it wasn't for spongebob, I'm not sure they'd still be around, you know.

Will Friedle (23:05)

Yeah, exactly.

Danielle Fishel (23:07)

Well, Mark, while researching your life, we learned that you faced a very common and relatable fork in the road for those of us who decided to pursue a career in Hollywood. You had to decide, do I become an actor or a rabbi? Who among us has not wrestled with this decision?

Mark Summers (23:25)

I'm still prerequisite is you got to be Jewish, so I guess you could be something else and still want to be a rabbi. But, you know, after my bar mitzvah, to me, it felt like performing up there, the pulpit, as we used to say. And it made me think, oh, my gosh, well, maybe this is a direction I should go. And I was rather confused. And I knew the assistant rabbi, Rabbi Weitzman, and I rode my bike over the temple, and when I was about 13 years old and I knocked on the door and I knew that the rabbi had started off majoring in radio and television and then became a rabbi. And he said, why do you want to become a rabbi? And I said, because I want to help people. And he said, if you go in the entertainment business, you can help a lot of people a little, but if you're a rabbi, you can help a small amount of people a lot. So whatever you do, you'll be fine. And I chose entertainment, and I'm glad.

Ryder Strong (24:11)

That's a nice way to put it.

Will Friedle (24:12)

That's a great analogy.

Ryder Strong (24:14)

Well put.

Mark Summers (24:14)

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Danielle Fishel (24:16)

And so then you ended up making the move to Los Angeles from Indianapolis, right?

Mark Summers (24:21)

No, I actually went to Boston for two years. I went to a school called Graham Junior College, which was a school of misfits. None of us wanted to go to college, but it was sort of the thing to do for two reasons. One, to improve our education, and two, to stay out of the draft. And thing called Vietnam was going on back in the day. And while I was there, there was a guy by the name of Bert Dubrow, who was still one of my dearest friends, who ended up be the exec producer of Sally Jesse Raphael and Jerry Spring. A guy by the name of Andy Kaufman who did what he did.

Danielle Fishel (24:51)

Right.

Mark Summers (24:52)

Another guy by the name of Paul Fusco, who created alf. So we had quite a talented group of humans.

Danielle Fishel (24:57)

Wow.

Ryder Strong (24:58)

Were you guys all friends, like, hanging out? Oh, my gosh.

Will Friedle (25:01)

I have to ask, because he can be controversial when it comes to is he funny? Is he not funny? What was just hanging out with Andy Kaufman like?

Mark Summers (25:11)

Okay, I will say this, and sorry for anybody who cares. I never found Andy funny a day in my life. Okay. He was the strangest human in the history of the world.

Ryder Strong (25:20)

Yeah.

Mark Summers (25:21)

When I was finally over here, I became a regular at the comedy store in 1976. And then you'd walk over to the Improv over on Melrose, and I'd walk in some nights, and Andy go, hey, Mark, how you doing? Fine. What are you doing? Oh, let's go have dinner. So I'd go have dinner with Andy, and I walk in two nights later, and I'd say, hey, Andy, how are you? And he'd go, do we know each other?

Will Friedle (25:38)

Oh, my gosh.

Mark Summers (25:39)

And so he was always playing mind games, and I had no use for it, quite honestly. And so I was not the biggest fan. I think the wrestling thing was, you know, not for me. If, you know, there are people who think he's a genius and good for them, that's what makes the world go around.

Ryder Strong (25:55)

Right?

Mark Summers (25:55)

But it never worked for Me, I just didn't get it.

Danielle Fishel (25:57)

Yeah, always living a bit is just not for me.

Ryder Strong (26:01)

I never got Austin. It's hard to be around.

Mark Summers (26:03)

Yeah.

Will Friedle (26:03)

Yep, yep.

Ryder Strong (26:04)

Yeah.

Danielle Fishel (26:04)

Okay, so from Boston, then you make the move to la.

Mark Summers (26:08)

I did and I became a page at CBS Television City. And I worked on Sonny and Cher, all in the Family, Carol Burnett. I got the tail end of real show business and got to hang out with all those people. I met my wife while I was an usher on the Mary Tyler Moore Show. I worked on Rhoda. I mean, I worked on all those shows. I worked the last episode of Sonny and Cher where it was so intense because the announcement had been made that they were getting a divorce and Sonny didn't want to stop shooting and share, just wanted to get it over with. I think we got out of there about 2 o' clock in the morning finally. So it was, it was an interesting there. And I eventually became a writer on a show called Truth or Consequences, which is another show that Bob Barker used to host. And I became a regular at a place called the Magic Castle because I was a professional magician. Oh my gosh. Worked there from 1973 until, see, my son was born in 1980, so like 81, 82. Became a regular at the store in 76 and then started doing warm ups on shows like Star Search and Alice and what's Happening now and Soap and, you know, I paid my dues from the time I landed in Los Angeles until I got Double dare. It was 13 years. So I really put in my time.

Danielle Fishel (27:25)

Good for you. How did you get the job as a page? Did you just apply?

Mark Summers (27:31)

No. That's an interesting story as well. I have all sorts of crazy stories. Nothing I did in my life was normal. I had gone to a wedding before in Indianapolis and somebody said, we know the associate producer Michael Zinberg of Bob Newhart Show. Why don't you go meet with him? So I called him up and I said, you don't know who I am, but I was at a wedding and I knew your relatives. And he said, if you have the nerve to make that phone call, I'll see you. And I met with him and he said, why don't I send you over to become a page at cbs? So I went on there and had a meeting and I met with a guy who was in charge of hiring pages and he said to me, you won't last here too long because you're too smart and you have too much energy. But there's a thing called cable TV now. This is 1974. I didn't know what cable TV was, but they're looking for a producer and somebody to be a newsreader. So I drove a million miles out to Simi Valley, which I didn't even know what that was at the time, and got the job. And I was so thankful that I drove back to CBS Television City to the guy who recommended me. I said, I can't thank you enough. I was hired on the spot and I have a job. Thank you so much. And he said, well, tell me about it. And I explained it to him, and he said, well, congratulations. Two hours later, I went home, my phone rang, and it was the company that hired me and said, I don't know what you did, but you went back and sold this job so well to the guy who sent you that he had more experience and we're going to hire him instead of you. My first screw you in show business. So I drove back to CBS Television City, barged into the guy's office, and I said, you a hole. I can't believe after, you know, me thanking you, you did that. And so he said, well, I feel so bad. I'll get you a job as a page. And so that's how I became. Oh, man. Yeah.

Danielle Fishel (29:08)

Gosh. Will you explain for our listeners what a page is, by the way? I don't know that everybody knows what a page does. So what was your job?

Mark Summers (29:15)

My job was to seat the audiences and to make sure that everybody, you know, ended up. They were supposed to end up to run errands for the people on the production companies and answer phones for the producers and the directors and stuff like that. So it was a lot of counting tickets, telling people where the bathroom was and making sure they were laughing when they should be laughing and being quiet when the other time was happening for them. And so you were a jack of all trades and a master of none. And the whole point was to sort of weasel your way in to meet the people who were putting on these shows to get the job that you wanted. Be a producer or writer or for me, talented.

Ryder Strong (29:50)

Right, Right.

Will Friedle (29:51)

Okay. So as a. Our resident television fan, I'm just. The shows you mentioned that you were working on are some of the most legendary television shows in the history of Hollywood. What was your favorite one to work on?

Mark Summers (30:03)

Well, soap, I think, because it was controversial at the time. You know, Billy Crystal was playing the first gay character on television. Imagine that, how silly that whole thing is. But sometimes you'd be out there for hours at a time, and after you've told every joke and asked everybody where they were from. You didn't have much you could say. But on that show I had met Billy Crystal, Jay Johnson, who did the ventriloquism thing with Chuck and Bob and a terrific comedian called John Byner. And so if I would go in the toilet, I could say, hey, John, why don't you get up and do you know what you do on the Ed Sullivan Show? And they could feel, you know, my fear and they would get up and help me. And so it was a fun show, entertaining as hell, and all those people to help me. Here's the thing. So many of us started off doing warm ups and the stage next to me was a show called Barney Miller.

Will Friedle (30:49)

Yeah.

Mark Summers (30:50)

And the warmup on that was David Letterman. And to the right of me was a show called Bosom Buddies. And Bob Saget was the entertainer and the warm up guy in that. So it's how we all sort of cut our teeth and got in. Because you would be in front of people who could hire you either as a talent or something else. And that's what we were all doing back in the day. Wow.

Danielle Fishel (31:10)

Unbelievable.

Mark Summers (31:12)

So cool.

Will Friedle (31:12)

So, so just in a regular day you would run into, you know, Tom Hanks and Peter Scolari and all she. Oh, man, I couldn't.

Ryder Strong (31:22)

And at this point, is your goal to be a comedian, a stand up comedian, or is it to eventually write, produce, or is it acting?

Mark Summers (31:30)

I never wanted to write and produce, ever, ever, ever. I fell into that. But I wanted to host television shows and I came out and I wanted to be a game show host, which back when I moved out here in 73, 74, that was a profession you could actually pursue and have happen. Now unless you're, you know, you know, a star of celebrity. Yeah, celebrity. You can't even apply for those jobs, Right. And so I did warm ups on game shows and then I did some announcing on some game game shows. They did a show called Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak, which was on abc. I did some pilots for people. And so you keep taking baby steps until you kind of get where you want to go. And double dare was a mistake as well. I was never called to audition for that show. A friend of mine, Dave Garrison, who was a ventriloquist that I knew in Indianapolis, got the call and he was tired of sort of beating the bushes and not getting forward. So he said to me, there's some network called me, I've never heard of him, called Nickelodeon. They want me to audition for some game Show. I don't want to go. Why don't you go instead of me? So I went over there and they said, dave Garrison. I said, he's not here. My name is Mark Summers. Can I audition instead of him? They said, sure. Which, by the way, I don't think you can even do that today. No. And I did the first audition and got three callbacks. And the one thing I always learned at auditions was get the name of the exec producer and a phone number because there was no email back then. And so I got the head of casting who brought me in eventually, and the exec producer, and I knew the show was going to start shooting in September. And right around Labor Day, I called Mike Klinghoffer, who was the exec producer and said, have you guys made a decision or not? And they said, well, it's down between you and another guy and we can't seem to decide. I said, well, what's the deciding factor? And they said, well, we've never actually seen you with kids. Because when I did the audition, they had grown ups playing the part of kids. And I said, well, I have kids. And they said, well, that doesn't mean anything. And I said, well, I used to do magic shows for kids. And they said, well, that doesn't mean anything. So I suggested, why don't you fly me and whoever this other guy is in la, let us do this or in the New York rather and do a show with kids playing the game and let the best man win. And they said, we'll call you back. They called me back. I auditioned, and the way I got the job was at the end of it, they called me and they said, congratulations, you're the host of Double Dare. And I said, well, what separated me from the other guy? And they said, you were both about the same. But at the end of his audition, he looked in the camera and said, is that it or do you guys want me to do something else? And I looked in the camera and I said, we'll be back with more Double Dare right after this. And because they threw it to commercial, they thought that was more professional. Professional. And that changed my life.

Ryder Strong (34:00)

Wow.

Mark Summers (34:01)

That's so cool.

Will Friedle (34:02)

Mike Klinghoffer hearing these names out loud again that I haven't heard since I.

Mark Summers (34:05)

Was 12 on your show.

Will Friedle (34:06)

He was. Yeah. It was really amazing to hear all these names.

Mark Summers (34:10)

Oh, yeah.

Will Friedle (34:11)

Do you remember Roseanne La Popolo? Was she also there at the time?

Mark Summers (34:14)

She was there and sadly passed away about a year ago.

Will Friedle (34:17)

She did. I went to. I went to Her. They had a. Something for her out here.

Mark Summers (34:21)

Lovely lady. Very smart and entertaining to be around, that's for sure.

Will Friedle (34:25)

Yes, definitely.

Mark Summers (34:26)

Oh yes. I knew her very well.

Will Friedle (34:28)

Oh, just Calderwood was your director. Oh my God, Dan. I haven't heard that name since I was 12 years.

Mark Summers (34:35)

I'm still in touch with all these guys. We're all still friends.

Will Friedle (34:38)

Oh man. Jeffrey Darby, Jeff Darby.

Mark Summers (34:40)

These.

Will Friedle (34:40)

Oh, I can't even. I can't even. Who now who was president of Nickelodeon at the time?

Mark Summers (34:44)

Was it Jerry Laborn at the time?

Will Friedle (34:46)

It was Jerry at the time time. So. So one of the stories that I have about Jerry Labourn and she was an incredible. I mean she was president of the network and I think one of the first female presidents of any network at.

Mark Summers (34:57)

The time was doing USA Network. And Jerry was second and Jerry was.

Will Friedle (35:01)

Yeah, so she's there and I'd never met her. And we're down in Florida and we're opening the studio and somebody comes up to me and says my co host, a girl at the time comes up and says do you know where the bathroom is? And I said, I don't know. And I see this woman walk up. I'm like, can you. Hey lady, can you walk her to the bathroom?

Mark Summers (35:17)

Yeah.

Will Friedle (35:17)

It was just the first time I met Jerry.

Mark Summers (35:19)

Labor network train trip down from New York to Florida too.

Will Friedle (35:24)

No, I missed the train trip. They flew us down to do that for the, the opening. So this is the. Such a shows, the synergy of the, of the network. When they moved Matt, Ali, Wendy and I down to Florida to do the three hour opening of Nickelodeon Studios, we all needed a legal guardian. And Robin was our legal guardian. No. Yes, sister. Robin was our legal guardian down there. We all had our own apartments. It's like I was 12 or 13 and they shut down Universal Studios. And my job at 13 was to go on the rides over and over and over again while they filmed us in a closed park. So my, my three friends, my three best friends and I at the time had an amusement park to ourselves for six weeks. And Robin was our guide, was our, was our guardian.

Mark Summers (36:13)

Yeah, because many of us took a train from New York down to Nickelodeon in Orlando and we would stop in various cities and yeah, you know, like Canada's be on the back of a train telling people about this fantastic thing that's opening in Orlando for Nickelodeon. It was such a cool thing.

Will Friedle (36:28)

It was so cool. Everything we would do. Nick takes over your school. I mean that whole just being in all that stuff was the coolest thing. Ever.

Mark Summers (36:33)

Yeah, man.

Will Friedle (36:34)

Yeah.

Danielle Fishel (36:36)

So I want to go back to the. The friend whose audition you took when. When the show ended up becoming massively. Was your friend a little bitter?

Mark Summers (36:44)

No. He became a very successful producer in Los Angeles and liked being behind the camera. He, you know, I used to host Audition night at the Improv and you know, you would go every Monday night and hope that somebody would see you. And 99 times out of 100 they didn't. And he got tired of doing that. And that's the difference between, you know, folks who make it and folks who don't. He made it in a different side of the industry, but most. I had a guy call me once from college and say, I'm going to go to LA for six weeks and try it out. And I said, don't even bother, father. Six weeks, you can't do anything. So you got to put in. You know, very rarely somebody will come into town and just instantaneously. Dave Letterman made it in about 12 seconds when he came here, but there was something special about him. Robin Williams, also another guy who came into town and instantaneously hit it. But that's like finding a needle in a haystack generally, you know.

Danielle Fishel (37:33)

Yeah. So what was your approach for this job? It's obviously not an easy task to keep it on the rails. Did you have a plan for how you were going to do that?

Mark Summers (37:42)

That I was just going to be myself. Here was the deal. I never wanted to host a kids game show. I wanted to do a grown up show. And so I treated the kids like grownups. I never said, hey Bobby, do you have a girlfriend I like? I was never condescending. And I would screw around with the kids and they got that right away and they would screw around back with me. And when they did focus groups, they said I was kind of like a crazy uncle or a big brother as opposed to some, you know, hoity toity big guy, you know, trying to be authoritative. And there was a fine line, but I think I found it and that's what was magical. We shot 525 episodes of that show.

Danielle Fishel (38:16)

Oh my gosh.

Ryder Strong (38:17)

How many episodes would you shoot in a day?

Mark Summers (38:19)

I got up to 6. A day.

Ryder Strong (38:21)

6.

Danielle Fishel (38:24)

So you're hired as the host and producer of Double Dare. What is established for this show, when you get there on day one, how fleshed out was it versus how much did you have to create?

Mark Summers (38:35)

Not very, because most of the people who were there from the Nickelodeon side had never done a game show in their life. I was the Only one who had any game show experience. And so the first episode took eight hours, okay? It was just one mistake after another. They forgot to put the flags in the places to get the flags for the optical course. And it was a nightmare. And I just remember Jerry Labourn grabbing her head in the director's booth and going, what the hell have we done here? And, you know, there was something back then called Playground Talk. And at the time, UHF stations were popular and Facts of Life in Different Strokes were the number one and two shows. And all of a sudden kids would go home and watch our show and they'd go on the playground the next day and said, I saw this show where if you jump into £5,000 of baked beans, they send you to Disney World, okay? And they went, what the hell is that? And all of a sudden the ratings dropped off of new of Facts and Different Strokes. And they found us and our ratings were off the charts. I mean, now if you get a point 2 or 0.3 in the ratings on television, that's big. We were getting fives and sixes. You know, we were getting gigantic numbers. And they contribute the sale of a cable to families to three people. One Larry King on cnn, because nobody had seen what he had done. A Gallagher who was doing comedy specials on Showtime and me and Nickelodeon and putting Nickelodeon on the map because Double Dare was this thing that nobody had ever seen. And it was the first kids game show. And, you know, right place, right time. Wow.

Danielle Fishel (40:00)

So are you just sitting around and like brainstorming ridiculously gross ideas for physically challenges as a child job?

Mark Summers (40:07)

That's very funny that you bring that up, because we would do stunt testing. We would shoot six shows a day and wouldn't even go to dinner. We would bring in kids from the Philadelphia area, where we first started in New Jersey, and we would test physical challenges and come up with the craziest things in the world. And unless they worked three times, they never got on the show. And the famous one was we had a mailbox, typical mailbox, old school mailbox. And they made paper planes. And the physical challenge was, you have have 30 seconds to get one paper plane in the mailbox. And I said, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It will never happen. And they said, just because you said that, we're going to do it tomorrow on the show. So we come to that physical challenge. And I looked in the camera and I said, okay, look, I don't agree with this physical challenge. I think it's totally stupid. They want me to get this kid over here to send that paper airplane into the mailbox. And I looked at the kid and I said, and if you can do that, I'll give you my house. Okay? So on your mark, get set, go. The first time he threw a plane, it went right. So you never know. And I know I didn't give my house.

Danielle Fishel (41:15)

Oh, my gosh. I have to know. When does the huge nose filled with boogers and one flag come into play?

Mark Summers (41:23)

That was about our second season, because at one point, you know, you try to top yourself because there were so many people watching, and they went, well, now what can we do? Right? And, you know, certainly as a kid, you would get your hand slapped for sticking your hand up your nose and picking up boogers. So we thought, well, let's reward the kids and do that. And, you know, we had the tank. Initially, it was filled with styrofoam, and then it was filled with water. And Mike Klinghoffer, I believe, was the one who said, well, why don't we fill it with baked beans? And trying to find enough baked beans to fill that tank was insane. The harder part was, you know, after a while, baked beans in a studio with hot lights starts to smell like the most rancid cafeteria you've ever been in your entire life. We tried to get them out by shoveling them into these big plastic bags, but the bags kept breaking. So, you know the guys who come in and clean out your sewers? Yeah, we called in a guy who cleans out sewers and septic tanks. He came in and hip waders and took one of those big sort of vacuum things and sucked the beans out. So, you know, I have stories that go on forever with this.

Danielle Fishel (42:20)

Oh, I never once thought of the smell, and I also never thought I'd hear suck the beans out. And now I'm just really together.

Mark Summers (42:27)

Ready 1, 2, 3 to do that. So that was fantastic.

Will Friedle (42:33)

No, that's the thing I always remember about being on shows like this, especially back in the 80s, was they would be. You would do these things that on paper, it's like, oh, my God, I get to have a giant food fight today. Or I get. And then by the third hour, when you're covered in the stuff, it's slippery. You've already fallen twice. Everything stinks. You're kind of going, oh, this looks a lot better on TV than actually doing it. Exactly.

Mark Summers (42:55)

They call editing.

Will Friedle (42:56)

Yeah, exactly.

Danielle Fishel (42:57)

Was there ever a challenge that you absolutely hated every time it was wielding out?

Mark Summers (43:02)

No, but there were certain things they would Try. They wanted to do a physical challenge with dog food. And if you open up a can of dog food, I start puking. And they said, well, let's try it. And they brought out the thing and open up the dog. And I. I stopped tape and ran outside and I said, get that stuff off the stage. I'm gonna throw up here in a second. So that was not fun. But, no, it was all fun. Look. Yeah. Are you kidding me? I was 34 years old wanting to do this my entire life. And they were paying me to tell kids to go grab flags out of large noses. You know, how bad could that have been? It was amazing.

Will Friedle (43:32)

So wait, you said. Said you were bringing in kids locally from the Philadelphia and New Jersey area. Where were you shooting when you first started?

Mark Summers (43:38)

Why? Which was the PBS station in Philadelphia? Because Nickelodeon had no money and they didn't want to spend any money in New York. And believe it or not, in 1986, we were spending $9,000 an episode. You couldn't do anything today for $9,000. And then we kicked it up to 12,000, and then it got to 25,000. And then all of a sudden Funhouse came on and they were going to, you know, try and beat us. And so Warner Brothers was pouring a bunch of dough into Funhouse. So Nickelodeon decided, well, we better pour some money in as well. And when the budgets became $50,000 an episode, which still is nothing compared to today's budgets, Jeffrey Darby called me and thought we were out of our mind. Why are we spending so much money on these episodes? But, you know, if you wanted to compete and stay in. Because There were like 17 lookalike shows and we wanted to stay number one. And we did. Did.

Will Friedle (44:26)

So when you started, were they. Was Nickelodeon already established at the Viacom building in New York? They weren't even there yet.

Mark Summers (44:31)

No, they were in a different Viacom building that is there now. They were down the street, closer to Central Park.

Will Friedle (44:36)

Okay.

Mark Summers (44:36)

Then finally moved down. But, you know, the thing I remember about Nickelodeon was the only reason I even knew what the hell they were was I had babies at the time. And they had a. A horrible puppet show that ran, you know, 18 hours a day called Pinwheel. Worst puppets, worst everything. And I would be up at three in the morning to feed my kids kids. And I would be watching Pinwheel. That's all I knew about Nickelodeon. They did a talk show for a while that was sort of Donahue esque for kids. Didn't work at all. It wasn't until we came on the air. Although don't.

Will Friedle (45:07)

You can't do that on television.

Mark Summers (45:10)

That was the show that I think really started the whole thing. And I'll probably get credit, but they got. You know, they were. They were great.

Will Friedle (45:16)

Was Double Dare before you, because I know you can't tell on television was a Canadian show that was on YTV that the Nickelodeon brought to the States. Were you. Was Double Dare first? Double Dare was first, right?

Mark Summers (45:27)

No.

Will Friedle (45:27)

Oh, you can't do that on television. Was first.

Mark Summers (45:29)

Was first.

Will Friedle (45:30)

Okay. Yeah. Because that's where Nickelodeon really got the idea of. That's where slime came in.

Mark Summers (45:33)

And the second extra money on that show if they would let them slime them.

Will Friedle (45:37)

Yeah.

Danielle Fishel (45:38)

I cannot stand slime. I don't even allow my children to have it. Did you literally just come home with the feeling of slime every day?

Mark Summers (45:47)

Well, it depends. In show business, that's a regular thing. But we had showers there, needless to say. And so I would. After. After the first 65 episodes, I learned, first of all, I never wore tennis shoes. I wore penny loafers. And I didn't want that mess on me at all because I had obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course, nobody knew it. I didn't even know what it was at the time. And they went to focus groups, and the kids said they love the show, but they want to get you messy. And I said, why? And they said, well, they just think it would be fun. So starting season two on, the kids would say, well, if we win the optical course, can we throw a pie in your face? Or can we slime you? Or can we throw you into, you know, this or that and that cover you in do. And so, yes, I would take a shower after every show and put on, you know, a new pair of jeans and a new tie and a new sport jacket and go out and do it again, man.

Will Friedle (46:32)

Well, it might have been. It might not have meant too much to you at 34, but I can tell you at 12, because I went up with. With the. Don't just sit there. Sent me with a producer, and I went up to, you can't do that on television. And went to the set and got to come out of the lockers and did everything, and it culminated with me getting slimed on the set. And it's still one of the coolest things I've ever done in my life.

Mark Summers (46:50)

Oh, that's good to hear.

Will Friedle (46:50)

But it was great. It's not what you expect. It was a guy standing behind you with a ladder and a cigar hanging out Just dumping a bucket on your head.

Mark Summers (46:56)

It was.

Will Friedle (46:56)

Wasn't magically from the ceilings, but it was still like one of the coolest things I got to do in my career.

Mark Summers (47:01)

And the guy was smoking a cigar. That was the key point of that whole.

Will Friedle (47:05)

Exactly. But no one knew what was in.

Mark Summers (47:08)

That cigar half the time. Exactly.

Will Friedle (47:10)

Oh, it was magical though as a kid. It was being a Nickelodeon was absolutely magical.

Mark Summers (47:13)

How old are you now?

Will Friedle (47:15)

I'm. I just turned 49.

Mark Summers (47:17)

Oh, are you really? Yeah. Bucks. Good for you, man.

Will Friedle (47:19)

Oh, thank you. So, yeah, so it was. I got cast when I was 12 and I was on Nickelodeon from 12 to 15 and did a bunch of shows for them. And then at 16 I got Boy Meets World and moved out to LA. But yeah, I was there opening this. You and I. That's the thing I was trying to find is I think you and I both were there and we co hosted the opening of the Slime Geyser.

Mark Summers (47:37)

Yes, yes, we did.

Will Friedle (47:39)

So that was one of. I think by that point I was 14 and I was like, oh my.

Mark Summers (47:43)

God, I get to work with Mark.

Will Friedle (47:44)

And it was just the cool.

Mark Summers (47:45)

Cause.

Will Friedle (47:45)

Well, you were the face. I mean, you were truly the face of the network. I was at the time when you thought of Nickelodeon, you thought of you and Double Dare. That was what put Nickelodeon on the map, was that. And I remember distinctly being upset because when they. I was recast on don't yout Sit There. So I took over for one of the hosts that left and when they brought me on, I missed, I guess the entire cast of don't yout Sit There went on Double Dare and got to run the obstacle course like two days before they brought me in.

Mark Summers (48:13)

Oh man.

Will Friedle (48:14)

And so I was. So it is because again, I watched Nickelodeon and that meant watching Double Dare. That's what you watched. And it was. I had friends, we would sit on the playground talking about, well, what do we have to do to get on the show? Do you send in. At the time it was, was. I think somebody said you could VHS tape, you could send in yourself or you had to make a phone call. But we actively tried to find out how to get on the show. As kids we used to tour the.

Mark Summers (48:36)

Country and do auditions, you know, all over the country as well.

Will Friedle (48:39)

So that, I mean, that's a good question that how did. If you were a kid, what was the best way to get on Double Dare? How did. I mean, what was the audition process like in Philadelphia?

Mark Summers (48:49)

We picked from Philly, New Jersey area and then got into New York. When we moved down to Orlando, this was the best part. We would hold up signs and say, who wants to audition for Double D air? And in a day, we had a bazillion people there, and we would turn the audiences over. It said about five in Philly, we only shot about sat about 90 people. But in Orlando, we had about 500. And we would turn the audiences over. You saw round one, got rid of. Brought in a new group. See round two. Get rid of them. Bring people in. Watch, you know, a couple obstacle courses. Because there were so many people who came to Orlando and came to Universal Studios just to see our show, and we tried to get as many people in as possible. And that's where we began, because we were doing Family Double Dare at the time. Yeah, we were seeing Moms and Dads and Kids, and we did Celebrity Double Dare with Weird Al and Lou Ferrigno, and you name it, we did them. You know, they all wanted to be on the show.

Will Friedle (49:40)

Oh, man. Well, it's just so much.

Danielle Fishel (49:41)

It's a massive hit. Pretty quickly, does your entire life change? Do kids recognize you everywhere you go?

Mark Summers (49:48)

Yeah, you know, that was pretty instantaneous. That was so bizarre to me to be, you know, having dinner at a, you know, McDonald's with my family and, you know, 14 people come up to you now. Cell phones didn't exist.

Danielle Fishel (49:58)

Yeah.

Mark Summers (49:59)

And, you know, they couldn't take pictures, so to speak, but they all wanted autographs and they wanted to talk to you. And, yeah, it changed a lot. And, you know, nobody can prepare you for that because you just don't have any idea what it's like when you're, you know, trying to go to the bathroom between an intermission on a Broadway show and somebody points to you as you're going to the bathroom, they go, aren't you, Mark? It just happens in weird spots.

Danielle Fishel (50:25)

Yep. Did your kids think it was cool? I actually went to high school with your son.

Mark Summers (50:30)

Son? Oh, did you really? Yes.

Danielle Fishel (50:31)

Calabasas High.

Mark Summers (50:32)

Oh, my God. Yes. They. They thought it was cool because I got to do all sorts of things. I, you know, I hosted Easter at the White House, so they got to go there and hang out at the White House. You know, I was always going to, you know, throwing out first pitches at Major League Baseball games. And so they got to participate in all that stuff and got to tour with me when I was out on the road, you know, doing Double Dare Live and stuff. So, yeah, it's. They had a lot of fun doing that stuff.

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Mark Summers (54:10)

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Mark Summers (54:20)

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Mark Summers (54:26)

Stay up dreaming about pieces again and again.

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Red leather bomber, that cousteau Barcelona top with the cowboy on it it.

Danielle Fishel (54:38)

Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these spines are on ebay and they even offer millions of main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. EBay things people love. Summer is right around the corner and you know what that means.

Ryder Strong (54:59)

Barbecues.

Will Friedle (54:59)

Sunny days by the pool with my shirt on.

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Danielle Fishel (56:00)

So I want to talk to you about your one man show, the Life and Slimes of Mark Summers. How did this come about?

Mark Summers (56:06)

In 1964, I went to New York for the first time and saw Fiddler on the Roof with Herschel Bernardi. And I thought, oh, my God, I've never seen anything like this. Growing up in Indiana, my parents never took me to Broadway shows, touring shows, and I said, this is what I want to do. So when I saw that at age 13, I tried to figure it out. Well, I took a bunch of other paths, obviously, from magic to stand up comedy to hosting and whatever, whatever, but it was always in the back of my head. And first I was diagnosed with cancer and got through that, and then I was in a car accident where I broke every bone in my face. And I met with a guy who was starring in Hairspray, Bruce Valanche at the time. And I had lunch with him one afternoon and I said, you know, someday I want to do this. And he said, summer, stop talking about it and do it already. And so I met a producer who had a summer theater in Long Beach Island, New Jersey, and. And I said, hey, I'd love to be on Broadway, but I know you're not going to give me that job right away, but if there's any job I can get to sort of work my way in. And he said, give me your number. I don't know. I just bought a summer stock theater and let me see. And he called me about a month later and I said, we're doing Grease. Would you like to play Vince Fontaine? I said, do I have to audition? He said, no, it's yours. And I took it. And so that was 12, 13 summers ago. And I played Vince Fontaine in Greece. While I was there, I met a guy by the name of Drew Gasparini who introduced me to a guy by the name of Alex Brightman. And they become fast friends. Brightman has since starred in School of Rock and Beetlejuice and numerous other things. And Drew is a writer of several Broadway shows and musicals. And I said, one day I want to do a one man show. And they wrote it for me. We started it in Bloomington, Indiana. Then we went and did the Adirondack Theater Festival. We did place in Pennsylvania, and we did Buffalo, New York. And while we were playing Buffalo a couple Summers ago, the Mrs. Doubtfire tour had opened next to us. And the director of that show came, unbeknownst to me on his day off to see it, came backstage afterwards, said, have you ever thought about doing this on Broadway? And I said, well, anywhere in New York would be great. And he said, well, I know people. Why don't I connect you? He set up a meeting a couple of weeks later in New York, and three months later, I opened my show six months off Broadway called the Life and Slimes of March Summers.

Will Friedle (58:18)

So, man, yeah, it was so much fun.

Ryder Strong (58:22)

Did the show change at all going to Broadway, or was it. Pretty much.

Mark Summers (58:26)

Yeah, it got better. I became more relaxed. When I first started doing it, I was nervous, had trouble remembering, remembering lines, and things changed in my life from the 12 years we started it to where it ended up. And plus, I had, you know, real people behind me now with a real stage and real lights and real everything and. But it was Chad Rabinowitz, who was our director, who initially took the bull by the horns and said, this is something that I like and we should be doing. So the original team, Chad and me and, and Drew and Alex and a guy by the name of Mike Nappy, from day one, we worked together, and we ended up doing it in New York together. And it was one of the biggest thrills of my life. And then from there, somebody from Hallmark saw me, and I starred in a Hallmark movie called Hanukkah on the Rocks that aired last December, which will air now forever. So who knows, you know, what's going to happen? That's my.

Will Friedle (59:20)

Yeah, that's. That's amazing. So you mentioned that your. Your family never took you to, like, Broadway shows or things like that. Was. Was anybody in your family in the entertainment business?

Ryder Strong (59:30)

How did.

Will Friedle (59:31)

How did the love. Love start?

Mark Summers (59:32)

My brother was a musician and he was a prodigy. And at age 15, he was being picked up from our house and driven to Chicago to play drums with Henry Mancini and Johnny Mathis, for God's sake. So he was in the industry doing that. Still doing it today, believe it or not, in his late 70s and doing orchestras and stuff. He was Marvin Hamish's conductor for 10 years. I mean, he's. He's. He was in the industry, but in a different form, more behind the scenes. And, you know, my dad was in the insurance business, and my parents said, you know, you should go in the insurance business with your father. You'd be a great, you know, guy who could do that. And I had no interest. All I ever wanted to do, I came out of the womb wanting to be in the entertainment industry. I never took a job in a restaurant. I never worked at Macy's, not there's anything wrong with that, but I went with the idea that if you do that, then chances of you going where you want to go isn't going to happen. So I never took a job outside the business. The worst job I ever had was at a restaurant called the Hungry Tiger in Los Angeles, and I was a disc jockey in a disco that they had for a while, and I hated that job, but that was as far outside show business I ever got, man.

Danielle Fishel (60:33)

You mentioned that you had been diagnosed with cancer a long time ago. How is your health now?

Mark Summers (60:39)

I'm on medication on a daily basis. I take a pill that only cost $18,000 a month.

Danielle Fishel (60:45)

Oh, wow. That's it, huh?

Mark Summers (60:47)

Yeah, that's it. I. I take. I was in chemo three times. First time for two years, then I was good for a few years, took it again for a year, was good for a year or two, took it again, and it wasn't good. Good. And they were either going to have to blast me with some really intense stuff, or if this pill works and it doesn't work on everybody, you're in pretty good shape. And so is it Tigrisso? Pardon me?

Will Friedle (61:06)

Is it Tigrisso?

Mark Summers (61:07)

No, it's called Imbruvica.

Will Friedle (61:08)

Okay.

Mark Summers (61:08)

And I've been on it for almost five years now, and it's keeping me alive. You know, I'm. I'll be 74 in about eight weeks and, you know, still feel like a million bucks.

Danielle Fishel (61:18)

Good for you. I also wanted to talk to you about something else you had mentioned, and we kind of glossed right over it. But I know people like to focus on your OCD now and how you hosted the messiest show on tv. My husband also suffers from ocd, but he has more of the obsessive thoughts rather than intrusive thoughts. Yes, exactly. And so what was it like for you doing Double Dare and having OCD and not even knowing it at the time?

Mark Summers (61:46)

Well, I knew I didn't like getting messy, and I knew I liked everything organized, but you wait your whole life to get a job. Little did I know it was going to be the messiest show on television. And so I had to have a conversation with myself. You finally got where you want to go. Are you going to let this stand in your way? And so nobody knew I had it. I didn't even know what it was called. And then when I was diagnosed, I was hosting a talk show on Lifetime called Biggers and summers, and Dr. Eric Hollander was on, and I read the research the night before and found out. Oh, my God. All the Stuff I've been doing has a name. And I had to decide we were live. Do I lie and go on that show and pretend I don't have it, or do I come out and say, hey, this is what I have? And I said, this is what I have, and made the announcement. Well, the next thing I know, I'm on Oprah and Dateline. And Jerry Laborn, the president of the network, called me and apologized. I said, you have nothing to apologize for. It changed my life in a positive way, you know, but. But who knew? So it's about. I have a podcast called Marx Summers on Ramps. And here's the deal. You go to a movie, you see a movie star. You watch somebody on tv, you go to a Broadway show and see somebody, you say, well, they had the best life in the world. How did that happen? And it's about having a passion. And why do some people give up on that passion and go sell shoes or, you know, work in the insurance business, and others keep moving. And I've had everybody on my show. We just had Jay Leno on this past week. I've got Jordan Klepper coming on in the next couple of weeks. Michael Simon, who is the chef on Food Network. Fascinating people on the show. We've been doing it for a couple of years. And those are where the stories are really interesting. Interesting is what made you decide to keep going forward. Because the word that you generally hear in the entertainment industry, as you all know, is, no, you didn't get the job. Why do you keep moving forward then? You either have to have a hell of a lot of confidence in yourself or be out of your mind or combination of the two, you know, and all of us here are talking today kind of have that in our bodies.

Danielle Fishel (63:37)

Yeah.

Will Friedle (63:37)

Well, it's also what you said about you were born wanting to be an entertainer. I think those are the people that you meet more often than not out here are people that I. We've talked about this, Danielle Ryder and I, where you can't see yourself doing anything else ever.

Mark Summers (63:52)

Right?

Will Friedle (63:53)

You can't not be in the entertainment industry.

Mark Summers (63:56)

And I felt like I've never worked a day in my life. I can't believe that I get a check to do what I do, you know, And I've done talk shows and I've done game shows, and, you know, I've done a little bit of everything. And at the end of the week, I get a check for that. It's like, are you kidding me? I'd have done this for free, you know, yeah, exactly.

Ryder Strong (64:13)

Anyone that.

Will Friedle (64:13)

Yeah, I know. Is there any talk anywhere about bringing back Double Dare?

Mark Summers (64:19)

I doubt it. Because, you know, as you know, Nickelodeon was just sold in the whole CBS Paramount deal. When we came back seven, eight years ago, the show was doing great, but new management came in and the first thing new management does is cancel things, whether they're successful or not. Right. Could I still do the show? Absolutely. I went out and did a tour a few years ago and you know, we had more adults and kids because they wanted to relive their childhood. Yeah. But I can't imagine in a million years two things. A, that they would even bring it back or anybody who's running Nickelodeon these days even knows what Double Dare is. And I'm sure they would be very hesitant to take a 74 year old man and put him out of that position. I could do it. We had an influencer do it last time. She did an okay job. But you know, I always say this, and it's true, she was sick one day and I filled in and when I did, the ratings went up 25%. So there's something I bring to the show that.

Will Friedle (65:08)

Of course. Of course, yeah.

Mark Summers (65:10)

Oh, man.

Danielle Fishel (65:11)

One thing I wanted to ask you about too, that is properly viral in 2025, especially with TikTok, is your encounter with Burt Reynolds on the Tonight Show. Are you surprised that this clip is running rampant more than 30 years later?

Mark Summers (65:25)

30 years later.

Danielle Fishel (65:27)

Right.

Mark Summers (65:27)

And it doesn't go away. No. You know, every six weeks there's a debate online about me and Bert and everybody says, oh, it was all set up. And as I always say, I'm not that good of an actor. I couldn't have done that. He just hated me from the minute I walked out there. And what happened is. What happened, Jay? You called me the next day and hey, what was going on between you and Bert? You know, he had no idea that it was going to turn into what it turned into, but it never seems to go away. And when they do the, you know, classic moments of the Tonight Show, I'm in that thing every darn time.

Danielle Fishel (65:56)

Did you ever run into Bert again?

Mark Summers (65:59)

No. I would have run him over if I could, but I didn't run into.

Danielle Fishel (66:01)

Right.

Mark Summers (66:03)

No, I, I, I did not. And I was at a friend's house the next day who knew his publicist and said, why don't we call him and see what the publicist says? And the publicist said, Bert thought I was a bottom feeder of show business and I didn't show the movie star any Respect. And here's the thing. Ask yourself, how does the guy who was the number one box office star for five years in a row die with no money? Not. Not the smartest bulb in the pack. And there's all sorts of other stories I could tell you that I won't. But nonetheless, it was great for my career, and it was part of the downward turn of. Of his, I believe.

Ryder Strong (66:38)

Yeah. I did two episodes of Evening show before I did Boy Meets World.

Mark Summers (66:41)

Oh.

Ryder Strong (66:41)

So, you know, they were the worst experiences. Like, I was so terrified of him, and he was so awful. He was so mean. I have multiple. It's like, you know, people have asked, like, how was it working with Burt Reynolds? I'm like, awful.

Mark Summers (66:52)

Like, truly.

Ryder Strong (66:53)

Like, he's like one of those few people. And then I had a friend who did the Dukes of Hazzard reboot movie with him years later, and they became friendly, and I was like, really? You're getting along with Bert? He's like, well, he was grumpy back in those days. Back in the evening, I was like, I don't care, man. You treat. You treat like. You know, I watched him treat a prop. A prop master so horribly. And like, that's. You know, you don't treat your crew like that. He was directing an episode too. Like, he was.

Mark Summers (67:17)

Those people make you look good every day. You know, if anybody should be, you should be nice, too. It's all those lighting gaffer, Christian folks who do it on a daily basis. But, yeah, that never goes away, and that's fine. And every time I go on and I say, it wasn't set up, and I went, oh, yeah, why do they have pies? And I've given this explanation a million times, and I'm sort of done with it. But, you know, because of the Internet and everybody thinks they're an expert on everything, don't waste your time, even get into an argument, because these people, you know, live in their mother's basements. And, you know, they're the ones who call you on your phone when it says spam. And those are the people I'm debating with. And I realized I'm done with that.

Danielle Fishel (67:55)

Yeah, good for you, man. Looking back on your career, which has been so long, and you've. You've never worked a job outside of the entertainment industry. If you could go back to young, young Mark, just start starting out and tell him one thing about his future, what would you tell him?

Mark Summers (68:15)

Never accept the word no, no matter what they say, and just keep believing in yourself because you're Good. Now, here's the thing that's interesting. When I started the Comedy Store in the Magic Castle, I thought I was pretty good. But the first night I went to the Comedy Store and I saw Jay and Dave and Robin and those kind of people, and I went, oh, my God, I. So much work to do. Here's a funny story. So I was engaged, and my wife didn't quite understand the entertainment industry. She was a dental assistant. And I brought her to the Magic Castle to see my show. And I thought I killed. I thought, man, I couldn't have done a better job. And I'm so glad that she saw that show. And she came backstage afterwards and I said, so, what do you think? And she said to me, you got a lot of work to do. And we're married 51 years later. Wow.

Will Friedle (69:14)

Well, the ones that are honest, you stick with the ones that are honest, right?

Mark Summers (69:19)

Yeah, she was 100% right. You know, we. There's something that we used to call in the Comedy Store days, laugh Ears. You tell a joke and the audience doesn't laugh, but in your mind, you say, wow, they love that joke when they really didn't. And so you have to get to a reality point in your life where you go, you know, when Robin Williams would walk on stage and it would take him, you know, 25 minutes to say hello. And by the time he walked, sometimes I'd have to follow Robin at the Comedy Store. And of course, after Robin was on, what could you do? And my opening line, they'd say, now welcome to Comedy of Mark Summers. And I'd say, oh, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, walking ovation. Because everybody was leaving the column store.

Ryder Strong (69:54)

Nobody wanted to see me.

Will Friedle (69:55)

How could you talk about.

Danielle Fishel (69:59)

Finally, my last question for you. Have you ever wondered what life as a rabbi would have looked like?

Mark Summers (70:05)

You know, I don't. I found out, you know, after the fact, that it would not have been good for me. I'm not good one on one, even to this day, as. As far as, you know, doing that kind of thing, maybe I would have been, you know, sort of bred into that lifestyle. But, you know, when we were touring the Nickelodeon show and doing Double Dare at the palace of Auburn Hills and selling out 20,000 cedars on a regular basis for years, it's a whole different feel. And I really like the fact of helping a lot of people a little as opposed to the other view. And you learn a lot from people as well. And, I mean, I can tell you endless stories. We used to do weeks on Double Dare that had various themes. And we did a cancer week once, and I was in the makeup room and a kid came up to me and said, hey, Mark, you know how I got on Double Dare? I've got cancer. And I said, I kind of think there's easier ways to get. But, you know, we did a lot of, you know, last wish kind of situations as well, because that show had so much impact and the fact that. That you, you know, would bring these kids in and they, you know, run the course and the parents would be sitting in your dressing room watching the kids have the best time in their life, and they'd have tears in their eyes. But for that moment, it was the most important thing to those kids. So I was able to provide a lot of happiness as well. And, you know, I've had a charmed existence, and I am just thankful that I was in the situation I was and got to do everything I got to do.

Danielle Fishel (71:32)

Well, Mark, thank you so much for being here with us today. You have been such a pleasure and a delight. And you, you have so many interesting stories. I feel like we could keep you here for another hour and just listen to everything. I know. I know for sure Will has a million questions.

Will Friedle (71:48)

I've been good. I've been good.

Mark Summers (71:50)

I do these fairly often and I don't get to work with pros like you guys that much. You are spectacular, and I appreciate the hard work you put in and the fantastic job you do in the interview. So thank you for that.

Danielle Fishel (72:01)

Thank you. Thank you so much, Mark. It was really wonderful to have you here. Really means a lot to all of us.

Mark Summers (72:06)

You guys have a great day. Thanks so much. You too.

Will Friedle (72:08)

Bye.

Mark Summers (72:09)

Bye.

Danielle Fishel (72:10)

Man, that guy's life. What a career legend.

Will Friedle (72:15)

I love he's a legend. He was. He was the face of the entire network. I mean, when we were on the. On Nickelodeon, it didn't matter what show you are, it didn't matter what you were doing. It was. If he walked into the room, the network was there. Mark was there.

Ryder Strong (72:30)

It would have been incredibly rude to ask, but if they're only paying $9,000 an episode, he is not making a whole lot. He is doing that for the love. And he is. And he's doing. I mean, even if he's getting. I mean, he was making nothing.

Mark Summers (72:41)

Yeah.

Ryder Strong (72:41)

And yet he, like, he said he would have done it for free.

Will Friedle (72:44)

Well, I can tell you, when I started on. Don't just sit there. I was making eleven hundred dollars a week and we would do something like twenty episodes. I mean, it was like crap. We were doing a ton of.

Danielle Fishel (72:53)

You were just making it per week? Not per episode?

Will Friedle (72:55)

No, not per episode. It was eleven hundred dollars a week.

Ryder Strong (72:57)

In New York City, six episodes a day. He's probably making about that. And for you as a kid, you're like, this is the greatest thing.

Will Friedle (73:03)

Oh, are you kidding? It was the greatest thing in the world.

Mark Summers (73:05)

It was.

Will Friedle (73:06)

And we shot during the summers because OB Obviously they didn't want to put us in school. So it was, you know, they would throw in as much as they possibly could. But that. So, you know, that was. I think I started on nickelodeon in 87 88. And that was big money back then to make that kind of cash, especially as a 12 year old. But it didn't matter what we were doing, where we were. There were two things you wanted when you were working at Nickelodeon. The first was when you got to a certain level, they gave you a Nickelodeon watch. It was awesome. It was.

Ryder Strong (73:35)

Do you still have yours, though?

Will Friedle (73:36)

I'm sure I'm somewhere. Yeah.

Mark Summers (73:37)

Yes, of course.

Will Friedle (73:39)

And the other thing was to meet Mark Summers. That's just all. And to get slimed. Those were the three things that were like, if you could do that, you made it. And I'll to this day still regret that I missed being able to run the obstacle course by like a week.

Danielle Fishel (73:53)

You know, such an incredible thing that, like, things work out the way they do sometimes in the sense that someone like Mark Summers, obviously an incredibly kind and nice person. Person is the person who ends up working with kids. Imagine if Burt Reynolds had gotten the job.

Will Friedle (74:12)

All right, so what's going on? We're going to kind of run the double dare. Come on, what's going on? Like, who's going to double dare it, huh?

Ryder Strong (74:17)

What's happening?

Danielle Fishel (74:19)

Well, it's just.

Ryder Strong (74:19)

Yeah, there's, you know, the problem with someone like Brett Reynolds is that he's so disappointed in his own career. It's like his ego is so fragile that he's not, you know, he's always comparing himself to, you know, I guess probably Marlon Brando. Like, he's just like, why am I.

Will Friedle (74:32)

Again, he was, he's. Mark is right. He was the number, number one draw for cinema for like, what, four years or five years?

Ryder Strong (74:38)

No, but then he maybe felt like he let himself down by not. I don't know what. But you look at somebody like Mark who just. I always wanted. He just wanted to be a talk show or a game show host and got there and like every step of the way, getting there was not beating himself up or disappoint. Just how much harder do I have to work? What's next? And then, you know, eventually getting a Broadway show. But how many years did that take? It's like you have to have such a good attitude about these things because otherwise. Otherwise you give up.

Danielle Fishel (75:02)

Well, even just hearing him say before he got Double Dare, from the time he moved to LA to getting double dare was 13 years.

Ryder Strong (75:08)

13 years.

Will Friedle (75:09)

13 years. Oh, the stories that guy must have about being the page and all the different shows. Oh, man, that's like, please write a book.

Mark Summers (75:17)

Please write a book.

Danielle Fishel (75:19)

You know what? You gotta go check out the One man show.

Will Friedle (75:21)

Yeah, that's true, too. You wonder how much he holds back, though. You wonder, like, when he'll tell you that he won't tell you on a podcast.

Ryder Strong (75:27)

He's also that kind guy.

Mark Summers (75:30)

He's going to go to that lunch, too. Hell yes.

Ryder Strong (75:32)

All right, we're taking Mark Summers to lunch.

Mark Summers (75:33)

Let's go.

Danielle Fishel (75:33)

Yes.

Will Friedle (75:34)

Well, he lives near us, Danielle, because I saw him at the local grocery store like a year ago.

Danielle Fishel (75:38)

So he said. He said, you have my number. So will, we'll make sure you have his number and if you could arrange a lunch, we'll do it. Like I said, I know we live somewhat close to him because we went to high school with. I went to high school with this kid, so.

Mark Summers (75:51)

Oh, man.

Danielle Fishel (75:52)

Anyway, that was such a fun interview. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails. Podmeetsworldshowmail.com and we've got merch.

Will Friedle (76:05)

Nick.

Mark Summers (76:05)

Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick.

Will Friedle (76:08)

Nickelodeon Old school merch.

Danielle Fishel (76:12)

I love it. Podmeetsworldshow.com Writer, send us out.

Ryder Strong (76:16)

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Wilfred L And Ryder Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Sudbaksh, producer, Matty Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superban Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram odmeatsworld show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com.

Danielle Fishel (76:48)

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Ryder Strong (78:56)

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Danielle Fishel (79:01)

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Ryder Strong (79:08)

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Danielle Fishel (79:18)

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Ryder Strong (79:19)

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Danielle Fishel (79:23)

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Ryder Strong (79:29)

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Danielle Fishel (79:34)

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Danielle Fishel (79:49)

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Mark Summers (80:01)

This is an I Heart podcast.