Matt Johnson Meets World

Summary

Pod Meets World – “Matt Johnson Meets World” (Nov 24, 2025)

Podcast: Pod Meets World
Host(s): Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Will Friedle
Guest: Matt Johnson

Main Theme & Overview

This episode is a lively, insightful conversation with Canadian filmmaker Matt Johnson (The Dirties, Nirvana the Band the Show, BlackBerry). Johnson is both a superfan and a product of “Boy Meets World’s” pop-cultural legacy. The episode covers his personal and creative debt to the show, the impact of American media on Canadian creators, playfulness and earnestness in storytelling, and his unique “guerrilla” filmmaking style. There’s also much laughter over Magic: The Gathering and how childhood influences echo in adult creative work.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nostalgia, Astrology, and 90s Icebreakers (04:12–10:20)

• The hosts playfully discuss “The Secret Language of Birthdays” book, reading each other's descriptions for fun.
• Danielle and Ryder joke about the uncanny generic-ness of the write-ups.
• It’s a lighthearted way to show off their camaraderie and set the tone for a self-reflective episode.

“Isn't it great that every sentence contradicts the one before?” – Ryder Strong (06:13)

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2. Boy Meets World in Pop Culture – Matt Johnson’s First Connection (14:42–18:12)

• Danielle recalls how references to BMW by various celebrities still excite the cast.
• Matt Johnson describes “Boy Meets World” as a seminary of character and storytelling for him—his family’s viewing ritual in Canada and how the archetypes shaped his own creativity.
• Matt reveals the Feeney call in his debut film, The Dirties, is a sincere homage.

“Your show was like the seminal piece of—I can even use the term literature—for me as a young person to understand not only stories, but archetypes of characters. My name's Matthew. My brother's name is Eric.” – Matt Johnson (17:18)

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3. How Eric Matthews Informed Matt’s Character Constructions (18:23–23:01)

• Johnson explains that Will Friedle’s portrayal of Eric Matthews inspired him: characters who ‘pretend to be adults’ as a source of humor and pathos.
• He connects Eric’s sense of play with the protagonists in his own work, especially The Dirties and BlackBerry.
• The group discusses the difference between breaking the rules and earnestness, how Eric is never cruel, and how that defined young Matt’s worldview.

“He was the character that people clapped for when he appeared. Yeah, he was almost like the imaginary friend, you know?” – Matt Johnson (19:43)

“The way Eric approached it was that you can bend the rules so long as your intention is actually goodness for everybody.” – Matt Johnson (21:07)

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4. Improvisation, Structure, and Sitcom DNA in Matt’s Filmmaking (24:04–32:44)

• Ryder and Matt discuss how Nirvana the Band the Show developed from loose improvisation into tightly edited, quasi-scripted form that mimics sitcom structure: “The more we could fake it into a sitcom three-act structure and make it like it was a Boy Meets World episode, the more I was like, this is unbelievably funny to me.” (31:32)
• Matt says he learned the value of sitcom formulas for generating comedic chaos with emotional strength only during editing—contrary to what he first thought in film school.

“When you're a kid watching these shows, you don't realize that it's not just happening live…I literally believed it's unfolding before my eyes and there's no plan.” – Matt Johnson (29:28)

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5. Friendship, Identity, and BMW’s Enduring Wisdom (33:24–34:45)

• Will notes the core of Johnson’s Nirvana...movie is the difficulty and importance of friendship.
• Matt draws explicit parallels to BMW: “A great friend tells you who you are. And it's not something you can decide…almost every single episode of Boy Meets World is about this.”

“How many times in your show did the characters say, ‘This isn't you’? …There's deep wisdom in that.” – Matt Johnson (33:50)

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6. Canadian Cultural Distance & Making U.S. Culture ‘Ours’ (34:46–38:19)

• Matt discusses the outsider’s yearning: growing up in Canada with only secondhand access to “TGIF”; desperate admiration for American media; relating this to The Dirties and Nirvana the Band as love letters to American pop culture.
• Filming his first U.S. feature (the new Anthony Bourdain biopic for A24) gave him new perspective on how foundational American media is for its creators vs. “outsiders”.

“There’s a read of my whole career, which is: this guy is just this younger brother of American culture, and he just wants people to know that he loves it. …I want to reach out and be able to hold it in my hand like a jewel.” – Matt Johnson (35:14)

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7. Behind the Scenes: Guerilla Filmmaking and Blurring Documentary & Fiction (39:11–49:47)

• The hosts ask how Matt films unscripted scenes with real people (as in Borat, but with sitcom heart).
• Matt reveals they improvise, regroup and rewrite daily based on what unfolds.
• 200 shooting days, a tiny crew, hidden cameras: the chaos is exhilarating but brutally hard.
• Safety and kindness are priorities—never making people the butt of the joke, so the public rarely objects or gets angry.
• Discusses real risks—almost getting arrested, securing releases, adapting structure on the fly.

“We maybe have a one or a two-page outline that will set up the entire movie. And then once it's been typed out, we don't even refer to it. ...we just keep it all in our heads because it changes every day.” – Matt Johnson (47:02)

“Let me disabuse you of that, Will… It is the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. I wouldn't do it again for any amount of money…we shot for 200 days.” – Matt Johnson (48:32)

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8. Sitcom Filming, Tone, and Improvisational Acting (52:35–54:21)

• They compare the aesthetic rift when sitcoms go “on location” (e.g., BMW at Disney World, Seinfeld finale).
• Matt theorizes that BMW’s studio “living room” becomes a psychic home for viewers; changing that can disturb a show’s rhythm and audience’s comfort.
• The collaborative energy among actors, and the need for a director to unify performance tone, is key—especially in improvisation-heavy projects.

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9. Shifting to Mainstream Filmmaking, Growing as a Director (54:21–56:50)

• Matt transitioned from indie improv to “mainstream” production with BlackBerry and his Bourdain film.
• He shares feeling less central in big productions, but values learning to tell stories this way.
• His core message persists: cherish and express your “inner kid” instead of crushing it for adulthood.

“So much of adulthood is learning to silence and strangle [the kid in you] for good reason...but if you kill that person, you actually die.” – Matt Johnson (56:40)

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10. Directing Actors, Truth in Performance, and Collaborative Creativity (57:18–60:10)

• Matt works intimately with actors to find truth in every line, often rewriting in real time.
• “You can't actually have an actor lie…unless that's their skill set. Unless they're Denzel Washington and they can literally make any piece of dialogue sound like…” – Matt Johnson (59:47)
• Directing is about ensuring authenticity, enabling actors to adjust dialogue or actions so they feel right for the character.

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11. Magic: The Gathering Fandom & Upcoming Film Project (63:54–68:31)

• Will, Ryder, and Matt geek out over Magic: The Gathering.
• Matt credits Magic cards with teaching him to read, wants his Magic film to do for kids what the game did for him.
• Hosts beg for cameos: “Can Ryder and I come to the set and be atmosphere?”—“You have to. Are you kidding?” (68:10)

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12. Creative Future, Alternating Between Indie and Studio Films (75:01–76:55)

• Matt plans to keep working in both intimate Canadian productions and large American features.
• He notes the director’s changing power and autonomy at larger scales, but is committed to keeping his core team and sensibility alive wherever he can.

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13. Closing Reflections: The Power of Influence & Artistic Legacy (77:21–80:12)

• Matt profoundly thanks the cast, expressing how BMW shaped his “family’s view of the world.”
• Ryder and Will reflect on the power of connecting with an artist whose work inspired them, and who in turn was inspired by theirs.
• The crew heap praise on Matt’s innovative comedy and storytelling, encouraging listeners to watch Nirvana the Band the Show: The Movie.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Eric as an archetype:
  “Will never looked at the audience and was like, I know what I'm doing is stupid. You're just like, oh, my God, this guy's going for it.” – Ryder Strong (20:32)
• On authenticity in directing:
  “If an actor says, this doesn't work for me. It's not even a discussion… One, you're right. And two, let's figure out how you do say this.” – Matt Johnson (59:55)
• On creative persistence:
  “You were who you are when you were 10…You really can't escape that. And so you may as well embrace all the positives or whatever that was.” – Matt Johnson (56:41)
• On the pain/joy of guerilla filmmaking:
  “Let me disabuse you of that, Will… It is the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. I wouldn't do it again for any amount of money…we shot for 200 days.” – Matt Johnson (48:32)
• On directing tone:
  “That is the job of a director, right, to manage that tone…” – Ryder Strong (45:02)
• On the BMW legacy:
  “From wherever you were shooting the show in the United States, it…making it up to Ontario, it was like the vague mecham for us. We carry it with us wherever we go.” – Matt Johnson (77:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:12 – Astrology & birthday book jokes
• 14:42 – BMW’s pop culture references, Matt’s first connection
• 18:23 – Eric Matthews as an archetype
• 24:04 – Matt’s creative process & sitcom structure
• 33:24 – Friendship lessons from BMW
• 34:46 – Canadian outsider’s perspective on American TV
• 39:11 – Guerilla filmmaking, “Borat” but with sitcom heart
• 47:02 – Writing method: improvising, regrouping, adapting
• 54:21 – Transitioning to larger studio films
• 63:54 – Magic: The Gathering fandom and film news
• 75:01 – Matt on alternating between indie and studio projects
• 77:21 – Closing reflections on artistic influence

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Tone & Style

The episode blends heart, nerdy humor, nostalgia, and creative seriousness. Matt Johnson is analytical but always playful and effusive. The hosts are starstruck but quick with warm, self-effacing banter, creating a space where inspiration and geekdom freely intertwine.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode is a warm, candid journey through the intertwined legacies of “Boy Meets World” and one of contemporary film’s most original voices, Matt Johnson. It explores the mechanics of making stories feel alive, how childhood obsessions become adult art, and why sincerity and friendship lie at the heart of the best TV and movies. If you love creative inside baseball, stories about making movies (against the odds), and the ways pop culture shapes us, this episode is a joyful must-listen.

Transcript

[Matt Johnson]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, confession time. I tried to host a Friendsgiving last year with, let's say, questionable results.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, we remember. You made mashed potatoes that somehow had the consistency of drywall.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, this year I'm taking notes from you both. I'm stocking up at one of my favorite places in the world, whole foods market. Their 365 brand has everything I need without wrecking my wallet.

[Will Friedle]

Same I got a no antibiotics ever Turkey for just $1.49 a pound with prime and even snagged organic green beans and mushrooms for the casserole.

[Ryder Strong]

Now I'm hungry. I'm all about their frozen appetizers, Quiche trio, Butterfly Shrimp. It's like hosting with cheat codes.

[Danielle Fishel]

See Friendsgiving redemption arc in progress.

[Ryder Strong]

Enjoy. So many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market.

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[Matt Johnson]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Matt Johnson]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Since Ryder's birthday's not that far away and I know how much Ryder loves astrology.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, the secret language of birthday. Do you have this book niter everybody had. I don't think I have it anymore. But of course Everybody in the 90s had this book. Coffee table.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh my gosh. There's also the secret language of relationships and you can match up the two birthdays of people.

[Matt Johnson]

Big hit.

[Ryder Strong]

This. This book was like the bestseller back in the day.

[Matt Johnson]

Oh my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was massive. And I loved it. Anytime I had a crush on a guy, the first thing I would do is like, when's your birthday? And like, read about him in this book. Read about him in the relationship book.

[Will Friedle]

Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

So I'm gonna.

[Ryder Strong]

Ready? It's Ryder on Friday.

[Will Friedle]

What do we see?

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, I'm gonna go to December 11th. Here.

[Ryder Strong]

Thinks everything. He's often pretentious.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. December 11th, the day of intensity.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. All right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I. I'm already so happy. Those born on December 11th are basically serious individuals. Intense, thoughtful, and filled with purpose. They are extremely well directed toward their goals and therefore difficult to stop. Despite their deep mental orientation, which is not necessarily a verbal one, they often have a commanding physical presence as well. This combination of thought mentality makes them powerful individuals.

[Ryder Strong]

The dynamism, highly verbal, not physical at all. Okay, keep going.

[Danielle Fishel]

The dynamism of December 11th people usually carries them through difficulties. However, if they are neglected, fall out of favor, or lose the support of either their teacher or their followers, they can experience tremendous psychological stress, sometimes even coming close to giving up or falling apart. Fortunately, those born on this day are capable of recovering from even the most drastic setbacks in making a comeback, after which they are still more resilient.

[Ryder Strong]

Isn't it great that every sentence contradicts the one before?

[Will Friedle]

It's so this is science, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Perfectly written.

[Will Friedle]

It's like science.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like teachers or followers. And then the next sentence it's like. It's like they'll be be really devastated, but they also come back really easily. So whichever side you see yourself in, you're going to see it. Great. Yeah, it's science.

[Danielle Fishel]

Not so much their faith in themselves, but the nature of their indomitable energy, which seems to take over impersonally and have a life of its own, ensures their success. As conduits of energy, those born on this day can have an enormous influence on those around them. Not only their words and deeds, but even their thoughts themselves can affect the feelings of their families and friends and colleagues. One look at them may reveal how they feel, for they are quite transparent. It is difficult for them to hide their emotions, which are usually written openly on their face or expressed in their body language for all to see. Paradoxically, they themselves may not be aware of what is obvious to others. In this respect, it is of great benefit for them to have an understanding mate or friend who can help them be more self aware and keep them in touch with how others see them. Dec 11 People can assume positions of great responsibility, but are not the best choice for positions requiring impartial arbitration. Their primary responsibility Their primary responsibility is to their work and ideas, or perhaps their moral understandings and vision of how they wish life to be. Those born on this day take matters of right and wrong very seriously and can indeed err on the side of being condemning and judgmental. Such judgment has a severe aspect and is usually taken to heart by others as parents. December 11th people must be extremely careful not to lay heavy pressures on their children. In fact, a live and let live policy toward the world in general may be better than carrying the flaming sword of an avenging angel. Furthermore, December 11th people must learn to relax, have fun and enjoy themselves. Often their high seriousness gets in the way of others feeling light hearted. If they can reserve their seriousness for their work and allow themselves to be more playful in their free time, they will greatly improve Their quality of life.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. See, I, I, I'm embracing more playfulness in my work. This is my work right now.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

This is so much.

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, it's very playful.

[Will Friedle]

Do we have to wait till August to hear mine?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, no. I'm gonna read yours now.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Writer said he's just so hungry. August 11th. Here we go.

[Ryder Strong]

Part of the 11 Brothers Secret.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

August 11th.

[Danielle Fishel]

As you know, those born on the 11th, they're part of the 11th Brothers.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

All right. Yours is the day of validation. Those born on August 11th have a strong desire to reveal the truth. They also have a feeling for the dark side of life and for topics that others may be uncomfortable with. Yeah, well, it is their job, they feel, to courageously bring what is hidden to light, to test, to probe, and if necessary, expose those who pretend to be what they are not.

[Will Friedle]

None of this is accurate.

[Ryder Strong]

Nope. The next time I can think of.

[Danielle Fishel]

A few text messages where you've been like, I just. Someone needs to, someone needs to reveal this about them.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, really? It's a defining characteristic of will. Is that the first thing you would say?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, absolutely not.

[Ryder Strong]

So you're rationalizing, trying to make it work because it's August 11th. Why don't we do this? You know what we do? Let's stop reading this. Let's take your birthday, and we'll take. I'm going to take three different ones and we'll shuffle from different days. One that including your birthday, and see if you can guess which one is yours.

[Danielle Fishel]

Why? I have, like, mine memorized.

[Will Friedle]

I was going to say Danielle's going to know exactly what hers is.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't want you can be reading.

[Ryder Strong]

August 12th right now for all.

[Danielle Fishel]

I wasn't planning on reading mine. I was just gonna read Wills. Yeah, no, this is not will. It is extremely important for August 11th people to have an audience. And I was like, oh, it says to have an audience for their challenging, sometimes disturbing views and unusual behavior.

[Will Friedle]

This is, this is not accurate.

[Danielle Fishel]

Anyway. Well, all right. I feel like writers was pretty good. But anyway, Happy birthday, writer.

[Ryder Strong]

Way.

[Matt Johnson]

Anyway, happy birthday.

[Ryder Strong]

When this airs, it won't be happ. Happy birthday. I am the avenging angel.

[Will Friedle]

I feel like if somebody had given Ryder a sandwich before you told him that, it would have been an entirely different conversation.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're exactly right. Welcome to Pod Meats World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm Ryder Strong.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm Will Friedle.

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Matt Johnson]

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[Danielle Fishel]

My family tells the same stories whether it's the year the turkey caught fire or the time all the cousins dressed in matching pajamas. I love the memories, but I always think, man, I wish we had that on tape.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

I think we all find it cool when something from Boy Meets World finds itself mentioned in other forms of pop culture. Some favorites Sam Jackson performing beat poetry about the show on Jimmy Fallon. We've been an answer on Jeopardy. Many times. Multiple rappers have both mentioned the show and Topanga too many times to count. Family Guy, the Simpsons, snl, the list goes on and on. But one reference in a little known debut movie from a director named Matt Johnson is one that is a little less conventional. The Canadian actor director made the found footage dramedy independently, eventually catching the attention of the festival circuit and Kevin Smith who would join on as a producer after calling the film about a school shooter the most important movie you'd see all year. And in the movie, the twisted main character played by Matt himself does the Feeney call nice.

[Will Friedle]

At least someone's doing it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Not. Not the guy who created it. No, not that guy. But someone is doing it.

[Will Friedle]

Someone's doing it.

[Danielle Fishel]

And we knew this was a big deal. It was the rule breaking genre melding kid who had first caught attention with the web series then TV show Nirvana the Band, the show that aired in the US on Vice. And then in 2023 he direct the movie BlackBerry with Glenn Howerton and Jay Baruchell, a film that won a record setting 14 Canadian Screen Awards with 17 nominations. And now we are all lucky to get Nirvana the Band the show the movie currently on tour in the US then released nationwide in February. And he's directing the upcoming A24 Anthony Bourdain movie called Tony with Dominic Sessa playing the late chef and writer And I have never seen writer or Jensen more excited it is.

[Will Friedle]

They've been nerding out since they told us he was coming on. It was like two little kids at a candy store watching them.

[Ryder Strong]

It's great.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just nerding out. Welcome to Pod Meets World. A man who, unlike Corey, never put the camcorder down. It's Matt Johnson.

[Matt Johnson]

How are you doing?

[Danielle Fishel]

You have absolutely no idea.

[Ryder Strong]

Look at Ryder.

[Danielle Fishel]

Starstruck Ryder and my husband Jensen. And now we even will.

[Matt Johnson]

I know about Ryder because I had met him, I think, for the first time this year in Austin.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. South side.

[Matt Johnson]

So I met him in person, and I could tell that he had seen a lot of my films before.

[Danielle Fishel]

He was probably effusive in his commentary.

[Matt Johnson]

You know what? It really does go both ways because I was explaining to him. I'm not sure how much of this you guys want to talk about on your show, but. But your show was like the seminal piece of. I can even use the term literature for me as a young person to understand not only stories, but archetypes of characters. My name's Matthew. My brother's name is Eric.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

And.

[Matt Johnson]

And my. We had two sisters who were both obsessive. Obsessive Boy Meets World fans. And so we watched it all the time. I'm in Canada, so it was a different. We didn't have tgif. We had whatever. I mean, you might even know what it was called. But they played you in Serenity, the Teenage Witch and.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Matt Johnson]

And I don't know what else. But we watched the show religiously, and it was fundamental to my understanding of story and character. Fundamentals. There's even Boy Meets World references in my early films.

[Danielle Fishel]

I was just gonna ask you. I wanted to get it out of the way first, that there was a Feeney call in the Dirties, which was your first movie. So was there a reason that you had the psychopath character?

[Ryder Strong]

Say it or I'm gonna tell you something, Ali.

[Matt Johnson]

No, I'll tell you something about Will's character. Okay. And this is. This is deeply sincere. When I was young, I saw Eric Matthews as the kind of person I wanted to be.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, I saw him.

[Matt Johnson]

I remember this episode where he walks. He's defending his brother in like. Or something. And he walks in and he. And music to like a Law and Order style show is. And then he puts his briefcase on the table and opens it up, and he was playing a tape. If you look at just that. Just that little tiny moment of what he thought was appropriate, and it's not like, he's laughing, saying, I'm hilarious. He does it because he's like, oh, yeah, I'm pretending to be an adult in that. You actually see the genesis of a lot of the characters that I wind up playing in all of my work. People who have a kind of Calvin and Hobbes style approach to reality and play where it's like, to be an adult is to. Is to pretend to be an adult, and they don't actually make the jump. And. And in not making the jump to being serious about it, there's.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

There's.

[Matt Johnson]

There's something to that that I can't even put my finger on it, but that is what I was doing in the Dirties. I. I don't. It's funny. I mean, obviously, I don't view that character as. As psychopathic. I view him as. As having a detachment from.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

The real rules of reality. And so he's pretending to be a school shooter because to him, it's just play in the same way that Eric Matthews would constantly play at the world of being an adult, because rightfully so, I would say the consequences didn't really concern him. He was sort of above it. He was the character that people clapped for when he appeared. Yeah, he was almost like the imaginary friend, you know? And so he had that. He had that power, and that left a. Like a. Well, clearly a lasting impact.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I think the. I think the essential quality of that, too, is the earnestness. Right. Like, the. The commitment to it. You're never winking, you know, like, none of your characters ever. I mean, you have moments, especially in the new film, where you turn to the camera and you say, like, this copyright is gonna be a. You know, you have moments, but.

[Will Friedle]

But you. But.

[Ryder Strong]

But the earnestness, the. The heart is always there. There's always so such commitment. And that is a very Eric Matthews thing. Cause, like, will never. You know, he never looked at the audience and was like, I know what I'm doing is stupid. You're just like, oh, my God, this guy's going for it.

[Matt Johnson]

Another thing that this character does so brilliantly. And I mean, we're talking about him. He's right here. But he is never, ever cruel.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

And this is so. And it's so important. And again, it wind up. I guess so. I'm sure it's silly to even talk about this way, but it winds up forming a layer of my own sense of morality as a young person where I'm seeing what Eric Matthews is doing. I mean, it's an extremely Moral show. Like, the show is. I mean, it's a children's show that is kind of about teaching tiny moral stories. But the way Eric approached it was that you can bend the rules so long as your intention is actually goodness for everybody.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

He can lie. He can. He can go into, you know, like, kind of moral gray zones where the adults can be like, this guy's trouble, but nobody would ever be like, don't stay away from this guy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

Like, he's not. He's not actually morally dangerous. And I think that that's something that left a lasting impact on me. And in some ways, it's why a lot of my work is in some ways, infantile would be the negative way to say it. But childlike. Childlike, concerned with an adolescent morality formation where the characters in front of the band, in the Dirties, in everything, even BlackBerry is another great example. Like the. The characters form a morality around the idea that my intention is the best for you. And so you must forgive my behavior because. Because you have to look beyond it to see that, yeah, I'm screwing around and I'm not maybe taking this as seriously as you would like me to, but my intention is actually for you to be like. In the. In the episode I bring up, his intention is to get his brother out of trouble.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. Right.

[Matt Johnson]

Even though it's absurd, what he's doing is insane. His intention is so pure and good that everybody can't just help but kind of laugh at him. And he's also the court. He exposes the fact that this. The adult system built around the Matthews family is. Everybody's playing. Right. This all. It. Like, anyway, I could go on and on about the first of all, the morality of the show.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. No, it's amazing. But also, I just wanted to add that everything you're saying about Eric, I had planned out from day one and did on purpose.

[Matt Johnson]

You were 13 years old. Being like, I have a. I have a killer song approach to this character that is going to transcend the script.

[Will Friedle]

I am going to be the moral center of the show. I had it planned from day dot, so I was pretty happy.

[Ryder Strong]

That's actually a good way into Matt. Like. Like, how much did you plan this out? Because you're talking about this and you're. You're. You're breaking down your own sort of sensibility wonderfully. And this is what I felt like the moment I saw BlackBerry. I. I watched that film. You know, honestly, like, there were a couple films that came out around the same time that were all like the story of a product, you know, there was like air. And I was just like over that as a. So I was like, oh, Tetris movie. Do we need it? And somebody was like, no, no, no, no, no. BlackBerry is the one to watch. And I started watching it and about halfway through I was like, oh my God, this is, this is so brilliant. This is so well written. And I immediately knew, I was like, and that guy on the screen is leading this entire thing.

[Will Friedle]

I could just feel it.

[Ryder Strong]

And then of course I. That weekend I did a deep dive and I watched all of your movies and like, I just became obsessed. And I feel like you're describing exactly, exactly what I felt, which is that, you know, you, you have this, this, this insistence that character sort of overtakes plot and overtakes story and that the character themselves is like seeing themselves in a plot and, and they are able to, you know, influence people around them. I just think it's so brilliant. Was that always like, did that happen just naturally? Like, where did like I'm assuming Nirvana, the band started from you guys just improving and playing together and discovering.

[Matt Johnson]

Yes, Jay McCarroll.

[Ryder Strong]

What the.

[Matt Johnson]

The other guy and also the co. Creator of the show was a childhood friend of mine. It's sort of after Boy Meets, like I was watching Boy Meets World as a true adolescent and then by high school, I don't know, I wonder if he was even still on the air. But. But I'm basically trying to put it in your timeline to try to figure it out where this happened in terms of your own lives. And. But in high school, him and he went to a different high school and we became very fast friends because we had a similar sensibility. We were from the same part of town and so all of our references were the same and it was just kind of play. He's a piano savant. Like, he's a true.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Literally can play any song on the piano after just hearing it for 10 seconds. Like he's a, he's a child genius. He's like. He's like Mozart or the movie Amadeus.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

If you've ever seen that. Like that. And that accurately shows what, what, what he's like, he can. He composed in the run of the band, the movie, composed all that music. He did, he's the, he did the, the music in. In BlackBerry. Like he truly is like a once in a lifetime talent in terms of sitting at a piano and being able to just create anything. And I, in my own way, I think had a kind of jealousy envy of that kind of magic, which is what it seems like when you're a kid.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Johnson]

There's even a Boy Meets World episode about this where it's like somebody is. Is quite good at something, and there's a jealousy.

[Will Friedle]

Alexandra.

[Matt Johnson]

Nikita.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, Alexandra.

[Ryder Strong]

Nikita.

[Matt Johnson]

And you're like, oh, I wish I could be this.

[Ryder Strong]

And so. And that.

[Matt Johnson]

I think that feeling of wanting to match him brought me into a place where it's like I would improvise scenarios or talk. And so we created that dynamic between a piano player who could basically play anything and somebody with a microphone who would sort of in a. You know, almost like Jack Kerouac, talk poetry over talk in live narration. And that just kept developing and developing until after I had gone through undergraduate film school and we started living together in downtown Toronto, we just developed it into a web series. Oh, but your question was, like, how much of this was a plan? Like, really none. I could not articulate the themes of my own work. I could not have this conversation with you about the influence of Boy Meets World over me. When I decided to put that in my first movie, the Dirtiest.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

I just knew it felt right. I just knew that this character referencing Eric Matthews, yelling at his conscience, which is sort of what Feeny represents in the show, yelling to his conscience to say, come out and play with me. I couldn't explain it, but it just felt right. And the older I get and the further away from that, I see it creating a very clear path towards the things that I'm interested in, which. Which come from, again, this kind of adolescence, adolescent sense of play and the lasting impact of the games we play when we're kids, into our adulthood.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

And. And it's why I actually think your show is so brilliantly named, because although it may seem trite, it's like, oh, yeah, boy, meet world. It's like, that's not really what it's about. Everybody in that show is kind of learning the script for how to be an adult. Topanga is acting way beyond her maturity. It's. It's absurd. Right to the point where I love this episode where you cut your hair thinking that you will have absolutely no reaction, you're beyond vanity, etc. Only to be struck instantly by the fact that I can't. I like my.

[Danielle Fishel]

Who am I now?

[Matt Johnson]

My Persona was so strong, it fooled even me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Right.

[Matt Johnson]

And so all these characters are pretending to be adults, which is something that had a lack impact on me. All my movies, in some ways, are about. Are about people who haven't gone through a rite of passage or haven't actually transformed into adults pretending to be. And the magic that you get from still being in that place of thinking anything's possible, that you make the rules, et cetera, et cetera.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I'm so curious because, like, to me this gets to. I'm really curious about your process, especially how it started versus where it's now. Because in your work you have so much tension between improvisation. Like, clearly improvisation seems to me like you're just riffing, you're just in front of a camera and you're keeping it loose with the camera to keep up with you as an actor, your fellow actors. But then structurally, you, you always have a way to bring it full circle where everything sort of comes back around. So I want to know, like, even in the early episodes of Nirvana, were you, were you writing things? Were you improvising and then going back and writing a script that sort of made sense of the improv, or were you just improving scene for like, how does, how does this work? I mean, I'm assuming by BlackBerry you had a script?

[Matt Johnson]

Yes, but again, all of this we had stolen from sitcom television. So again, to keep bringing this back to like tgif, boy meets world style storytelling. It's like when you're a kid watching these shows, you don't realize that it's not just happening live. Do you know what I mean? I'm 10 years old watching the show. I literally believe it's unfolding before my eyes and there's no plan. And it's only when. And as a young filmmaker, in a way, I was almost trying to mock the form of the sitcom like Nirvana, the band. The show, in some ways is pretending to be a sitcom. And because we were pretending to be one, we wound up needing to learn how a three act structure for television actually works and how funny it can be to put characters who are so stupid and don't. And really don't deserve that kind of treatment in that world. And so that when the, the movie is a perfect example, it's like as when Matt goes back to the year 2025 and the world is different and he's gotten the comeuppance that of course you would expect that he would get if this were a sitcom where, you know, you wish on a, on a, with a, with a, with a lamp, right? And then you get the wish, but it's corrupted. Like, like in some ways that's a cliche, but in, in our world, all the cliches seem fresh. And so we Became addicted to them. And so I wound up teaching myself. I won't even say like, like I sat down to try to learn it. But in editing these things, the more we could cleave to the strict rules of Hollywood television story writing, the better it was. And it was like the exact opposite of what I thought in film school, where I thought, oh, I'll make movies and I won't follow any rules at like, screenwriting is for old people. Like, it sucks. Like, why would I, why would I do any of this? And then it was the exact opposite was true.

[Ryder Strong]

And that was discovered in editing. That was when you started editing completely.

[Matt Johnson]

Once we shot an entire episode. Because I was editing the original episodes of that show as I was doing it. The more I could fake it into a sitcom three act structure and make it like it was a Boy Meets World episode, the more I was like, this is unbelievably funny to me. And it's almost like you tie it together with an invisible structure that I don't even know that the audience even follows. But it makes all of the asinine nonsense of, in the movie's example, a time travel story where really, like these guys, at any moment a real person could stop them. Be like, you guys can stop. You don't need to do this, you're wasting your time. And yet, because they are in the propulsive of mode of, well, I'm on tgif, I gotta finish this movie.

[Ryder Strong]

I.

[Matt Johnson]

Have to do this. It creates a kind of new thing which is like the real world and real people colliding with this 90s clean, morally clear story that for whatever reason I found very addictive when I was younger.

[Will Friedle]

Well, one of the things that I loved because I just kept rewinding certain parts and rewinding certain parts. But the overall idea about the film that I loved so much was it really shows how wonderful how important and how really difficult friendship can be. And I just, you know, it's arguably the most important relationship you'll ever have in your life is your best friend or best friends. And there's times it's not the easiest thing in the world, but you know that it's helping you develop the kind of person that you're becoming. And there's something, you just caught that where it's like, God, I love you so much and I can't be anywhere near you right now, of course. And it's just something so great about it.

[Matt Johnson]

The great quote that rings in my mind is this young quote that says, a great friend tells you. Who you are. And it's not something you can decide. You don't get to pick who you are, even though, of course, we all think that we do. And yet again, almost every single episode of Boy Meets World is about this. Corey wants to be this. Sean wants to be this, but they actually need to tell one another, you're not that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

And how many times in your show did the characters say, this isn't you?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

It's a cliche. And yet what are they deeply saying? They're saying you are acting outside of your moral norm, and if you keep going down this path, it will destroy you. Yeah, right. It's almost every third episode, somebody will say, this isn't you.

[Danielle Fishel]

What are you doing? That's true.

[Matt Johnson]

But there's deep wisdom in that.

[Ryder Strong]

That.

[Matt Johnson]

Right. Which is that your friends create you. Right. They make you. And so the decisions that you make. My decision to sit down and watch Boy Meets World, my whole family being drawn to it. Why?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Why was it a hit? You know, like, you write these questions, like, people think these questions are meaningless, but there's something there that is. Well, what. And what would you say? It's like. It's profound.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Even though it's this TGIF show that I think many people think about it, almost mock. But what are you talking about? It developed your sense of morality.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

Absolutely. How much does being in Canada play into your work?

[Matt Johnson]

I think that now that I'm older, it is. It's become more clear to me that being outside of the American system, even. Even the fact that I didn't have TGIF when I was a kid, and I would watch it on whatever our Canadian subsidiary broadcaster was, but I would see the ads in between. Between Boy Meets World. It's like a tgif. And I'd be like, what is this, teacher?

[Commercial Announcer 1]

What is that?

[Matt Johnson]

I wish I had that. That just seems so cool. I want to be a part of that, but I couldn't be. It gave me a kind of ironic distance from. From all of American culture. And so I think it's why the Dirties is so much about a kid obsessed with. In almost like a younger brother way, American culture and wanting to touch it, you know, like, wanting so desperately to be a part of it. I think there's a. There's a read of my whole career, which is this guy is just this. This younger brother of American culture, and he just wants. He wants people to know that he loves it. And I. And I. And I want to reach out and be able to hold it in my hand like a jewel. Right. Nirvana, the band is. Is basically a whole series of that. Of us making these somewhat cryptic but. But sometimes very overt references to American media that shaped us, but it's not ours. I just made a movie in the United States about Anthony Bourdain with it for the first time ever with an American crew. And it was amazing to me. It was the first time I ever shot anything in America. I'm going from location to location with this huge American film crew and they're saying things like, oh, yeah, this is where these people shot Jaws. And this is the. And we just shot this movie over here that won an Oscar. And they just made that.

[Ryder Strong]

That.

[Matt Johnson]

That movie, the Holdovers, which was nominated for all these Oscars. And I was like, whoa, this is like their lives. Like, for you guys, you are like, it's you. You get to be the defining culture of planet Earth. And it was the first time that I'd thought about it from the perspective of, oh, like what I just think of as multimedia culture. Like, what I just think of as the stuff that I watch. That's just American culture.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

It's the water that you swim in. And.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, so you were. But you were empowered then by this sort of outsider status or this? Definitely. I mean, are you. Are you going to be able to hold on to it? Like, did you feel it with this film now that you were working with an American crew and American producers and you know you're going to be. It's going to get released, right?

[Commercial Announcer 1]

You.

[Ryder Strong]

You're.

[Matt Johnson]

Are.

[Ryder Strong]

Do you still. How are you going to be able to maintain that. That outsider sensibility?

[Matt Johnson]

It was very difficult. And I will say that in a lot of ways, as I'm making movies that are. That are bigger where it isn't, where it's not cute necessarily for me to kind of make movies like Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, Right. Like, I don't have those same tools. It is. Let me put it this way. When I made BlackBerry, I thought that that movie was me leaving that part of my aesthetic behind, and it proved to instead be the movie that most people know me by as opposed to my earlier work. And so I was. I had thought that I'd already had this, you know, sell out my aesthetics moment, and it seems as though it didn't occur. So I think that anything that I make, because in some ways I'm so limited and because my experiences are so defined, it's always going to be in my voice at Some level now that may prove to be false. We'll find out.

[Will Friedle]

Well, one of my favorite parts of the movie is just no matter what.

[Matt Johnson]

No matter what the characters are going.

[Will Friedle]

Through, no matter what they're doing, they'll always stop and welcome people to Toronto. It's just like you're holding like all this stuff. It's like, oh my God, everything's going on. Hey, welcome. Welcome to the city.

[Matt Johnson]

We're really happy to have you here. It's just patriots.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

And I think you gotta understand, Toronto is such a diverse city and so many people come visit here. And I think that almost self consciously, when we're shooting the show, people look at us and they're like, what are these people doing? And I feel a kind of. No, no, no. Like a statesmanship, like an ambassador, like. No, no, I'm happy you're here. You're in a great place. I like it when the, when the, when the French girl at the end, end, I'm trying to plug the cable in and she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I need your help. Oh, you're.

[Ryder Strong]

Where are you from?

[Matt Johnson]

France or Quebec?

[Will Friedle]

Could you do me a favor? Could you press the button on the side there?

[Ryder Strong]

Just. But this speaks to the fact you're literally on the street filming with, with regular people. Right. I mean, this is improvisation. Okay, so we need our list, we.

[Danielle Fishel]

Need our listeners to know this in case they've never seen a Matt Johnson movie. We need to explain this a little bit, how you blend and written, scripted moments blended with man on the street style stuff.

[Matt Johnson]

A great way to think about it is that imagine a Boy Meets World episode. The only actors in it are Will Ryder, Danielle and Ben. And Ben. And that's it. Right? So you, as a shoot, you're in a high school and everybody in the high school there's really don't know where they're in a movie, but you guys know the script. And so you're going through an episode being like, well, somehow we've got to do this. And so whenever somebody joins in, they don't know they're in a movie, but. But you talk with them. It's a lot like the movie Borat. If Borat was like in a 80s, like family movie. That's thinking about it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Great.

[Will Friedle]

Have you ever had a bad experience while shooting on the street? I mean, something happens where it's like, oh my God, we almost got beaten up. We almost got arrested. I mean, any of these kind of things happen?

[Matt Johnson]

Arrested, sure. Because sometimes we're shooting things like that crazy moment at the beginning with the CN Tower. Ye. Unreal. Like that, that, that one was an extremely close call. But, but we're not. Because we're not mocking anybody and we're not trying to ever make anyone look bad. You'd be surprised at how nice people are. We've never ever been in a situation where somebody thought, oh, I'm being like, you guys are making fun of me and I'm mad.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Matt Johnson]

That's never ever happened. And I think it's because we seem so, well, charitably brainless. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think people read us and they're like, this person could not mean any harm whatsoever.

[Will Friedle]

Like Eric. Like Eric Matthews.

[Matt Johnson]

Like Eric, exactly like Eric Matthews. Like, actually will think, like, how many times do people get mad at you in the show? It's only when they misunderstand what you're doing.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, right, right.

[Matt Johnson]

Like that's when Eric Matthews would get into trouble. It would be like, oh, they just didn't understand that he actually meant the best. Like, your brother would get furious with you all the time until he real realized, oh, he's trying to help me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, but that also, it also, it just shows the, the senior talking about the CN Tower shows. So the differences between Canada and the United States, because I'm sitting there watching and you're pulling. You pulls out the pliers and is like, oh, I'd use these for my jeans. And like, you're good. Come on through. Where it's like, oh, you would have guard dogs around you by that point. It's like, oh, it's delightfully Canadian. That moment. It is just wonderful. I was like, oh, my God, they're letting him go.

[Matt Johnson]

It was just so great. I think that might be the other piece of my citizenship that comes through in my work, is that there's a kind of fearlessness because of the provincialism of my country that there. It's not that there's no consequences here, but it's just that we have such a different level of safety in Toronto where like, if anything, if somebody gets hit by a car in Toronto, it's national news.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Matt Johnson]

Wow. Do you know what I mean? Like, like, it's, it's just so, so different. Oh, God.

[Danielle Fishel]

Must be nice.

[Will Friedle]

How did, now I have to ask, how did you shoot the CN Tower stuff? Like the stuff at the top and the parachuting off? I mean, how is this green screen? It didn't look like it.

[Matt Johnson]

So we never use, we never use green screens. But. But off. Because. Because we. It would. As soon as people know that we're shooting something, they act different.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

So we can't do anything.

[Will Friedle]

That's the Heisenberg principle.

[Matt Johnson]

Yes, exactly. As soon as they know. As soon as people know, then it's. Then it's. Then it's over. Well, you must know. How many times did you guys bring a guest star into the show and then you look at one another after a take and you go, they don't get it. No, right. Like, how often does that. I mean, I'm actually sincerely curious. How often did that happen?

[Will Friedle]

I mean, I don't know. You know what's funny? I see it more. I saw it on Boy occasionally. But where I really see people out of their element, where they think it's one thing and they get there in something completely different, is voiceover. When you're. When you're going into doing an animated series and you get these brilliant actors that come in that just don't get it.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I felt it more on feature films. On features, you'll be like, oh, we're in different movies. I mean, the thing about sitcom is that the form is so given. Do you know what I mean?

[Matt Johnson]

People come in knowing what they're supply. You know what? Of course, it's so ignorance of me. Obviously. Maybe that would happen in like the first season. But once that's done, you're such a phenomenon that people are coming to audition with the Boy Meets World.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. I mean, they have the rhythm of the language literally in their head. Do you know what I mean? By season two or three, we know how every line is gonna be delivered just by reading that on the page. And everybody can kind of feel that rhythm and get into it. It's Michael Jacobs voice as a writer, we all just sort of like, oh, okay, we hear it, we know it. But also the sitcom as a form is so formalized. It's so structured. It's so nice.

[Will Friedle]

It has a standard beat to it, which is why when you get somebody like a Matthew Perry or something like that, who. Who's everybody else is listening to one song and he's obviously completely. Has a different beat in his head. You stand out as a sitcom actor. Cause it's like, oh, okay, you hear the beat, but you're going jazz. And so it's that. That's really. So writer's right. You get a lot of people that come in that know that it's the setup joke and set up joke and set up joke. I mean, that's kind of what a sitcom is. But when you do that, get that actor who walks in who's like, oh, man, you're totally off on another thing that's kind of. You can, you can create magic.

[Ryder Strong]

But I've. Yeah, I felt that on features, you know, where you're literally looking around the room going, going, oh, they think they're doing a comedy and the rest of us are doing a horror film. How do we make this work?

[Will Friedle]

Troll 2.

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, right.

[Ryder Strong]

But that's, you know. Yeah, I mean, and, and hopefully, I mean, that is the job of a director, right, Is to manage that tone and hopefully get everybody on the same page as far as, you know what you're doing. But what I love about your work is that element of chaos. Like, so I want to hear about shooting the Dirties because that, that's a movie that is very funny, but ultimately very tragic and dramatic too. And so from what I've heard, you just had run of a high school to make this movie.

[Matt Johnson]

Multiple different high schools. Again, I made that movie when I was so young that we were able to go into high schools in Canada and just film without people really, whether they thought we were students or thought that we meant to be there, it was a kind of mix of both. And again, because we really did mean no harm and we were interacting with students sort of at their level and we shot a ton. I would say that what hasn't been brought up is that in all of this work, unlike an episode of Boy Meets World, we shoot more that we don't use than we do.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

So we shoot. We shoot scenes and scenes and scenes. Sometimes entire movies that don't make it to.

[Ryder Strong]

So what does the script look like? Is it an outline?

[Matt Johnson]

You don't write scripts. That's, that's, that's the big. That's the biggest thing if on BlackBerry. Because I was working with American actors, I wrote a very, very detailed script with, with Matt Miller, the producer, and we sent that script to actors and that was the entire movie. Now, that changed a ton because we played a lot on set and in editing, I completely reformatted the movie with, with Kurt Love and Bobby Upchurch, the editors of all this stuff. But in general, the Dirties, Operation Avalanche, Griffin of the Band, the Show, they not only did they not have scripts, we. We maybe have a one or a two page outline that will set up the entire movie. And then once it's been typed out, we don't even refer to it. Like, the six or seven of us who make this stuff, we Just keep it all in our heads because it changes every day. Right? So we'll be out in the street. I'll give you a great producer.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Johnson]

Luckily, the producer, Matt Grayson, is one of those people.

[Ryder Strong]

He's part of the team. Yeah. So he's in it. Oh, my God.

[Matt Johnson]

So, so the, the, the, the. The goal. Old standard example of this in that movie is the scene Will brought up where we're sneaking into the CN Tower and the security guard lets us through with those pliers that we're later going to use to cut the safety cords to jump off.

[Will Friedle]

And clearly wearing parachutes.

[Matt Johnson]

Well, this is the secret. Okay, so we're clearly wearing these parachutes on our back under our clothes. We assumed that security was going to say, what are those on your back? They were going to expose that we were wearing parachutes. And then. And the original plot was us sneaking into the Sky Dome a different way. But when security one, didn't mention the parachutes on our back, and then two, let me in with the pliers, we thought, all right, so I guess now we're doing this instead. So our plan was never to jump off the CN Tower. That was not nobody. Well, it's inconceivable. Like, I don't even know how you would do it. And it was only because the reality let us go there that we kept going.

[Danielle Fishel]

So when do you regroup? When do you then look at each other and say.

[Matt Johnson]

Oftentimes one beat that we shoot will be an entire day. And then we all go back to our office and go, okay, so now what? So we regroup every single day and rewrite based on what we got.

[Ryder Strong]

So much.

[Will Friedle]

That sounds like such a free, amazing way to shoot a film.

[Danielle Fishel]

How long did it take to shoot?

[Matt Johnson]

Let me disabuse you of that, Will, and answer your question at the same time, Danielle. Okay, so it is the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. I wouldn't do it again for any amount of money. And Danielle, we shot for 200 days. That movie has a 200 day production schedule. We literally shot the movie for 200 days.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God. It's so. It's. It's Apocalypse now and then your film, essentially, it's.

[Matt Johnson]

It's a. It's a nightmare to make. And although it seems fun and like, oh, wow, these guys are having such.

[Danielle Fishel]

A good time, we're not 200 days over how long? In one year or a year?

[Matt Johnson]

We shot the movie for one year, 200 days.

[Ryder Strong]

But you're. But your Your, your crew has to be tiny. I mean, you're six of. Okay, so, so there nimble. You are able to sort of just.

[Matt Johnson]

But we all get one van. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you ever get nervous out there?

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, every single time I need to talk to a stranger, I get nervous because I'm like. Because I don't want to embarrass them. I want them to be happy. And normally once we start talking, then it's like, oh, good, they're in a good mood. This is good vibes. But when the thing, like any of those things, when I had to go through security when we were. When we're in Canadian Tire and that libertarian is telling us not to jump because he's worried we'll die. Like, all of that stuff is nerve wracking.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

But now, I'm sorry, you have to give certain people lines because at one point you go up to a guy on the street and you say, what year is it? And he says, It's 2008.

[Matt Johnson]

Yes, we cheat. So in that instance, now that's a very specific part of Toronto Young and Dundas Square, where it's a wild area. You'll remember later on in the movie from that moment, I see a guy who says, Hollywood. Hollywood. Mr. Rocky, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Jennifer Lopez. That's a place where there's a lot of day drinking. I'll just say, and so. And so, yeah, sometimes if like we're desperate to have somebody say something, we'll give them a line. But they're always strangers and they're always people who are like, I'll be in a movie. Hell yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, God, it's awesome.

[Danielle Fishel]

Are releases a thing? Do you have to get. Okay, so you.

[Matt Johnson]

Anybody who speaks, anybody who like, who interacts with the plot, our producers chase down to get releases from. And we don't always get them. Sometimes we have to blur their faces.

[Ryder Strong]

Face.

[Will Friedle]

How close are the cameras? I mean, does everybody see that you're filming something or. No, that's.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh.

[Matt Johnson]

Jared Rab, the cinematographer who in some ways developed this language, is shooting on cameras that sometimes are like 350 millimeters. Like the lens, they're so long that Jay and I can't even see where they are.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Matt Johnson]

And on the Dirties, that was a. That was necessary because that's a movie where if people were to see the cameras, it completely breaks. Well, it breaks the reality in a way. Because the trick, the magic really is that these guys know they're in a movie nobody else does. And so it's almost like they're glowing. Do you guys read Calvin and Hobbes?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Obsessed.

[Matt Johnson]

So Bill Watterson's. What's so amazing about his technique? To me. To me, I don't know anything about comic books, but his backgrounds are like paintings. They're these beautiful, gorgeous, and yet incredibly simple paintings. And so Calvin and Hobbes and the characters, they stand out in this almost, like, tin way where it's like, whoa. It's like they pop right out. And. And that aesthetic, we're almost trying to follow that by having a world that is so dynamic and wild. But, you know, these two guys, whether it's me and Owen in the Dirties, or me and Owen in Operation Avalanche, or Matt and Jay in Nirvana, the band, they. It's like they glow. Like, you follow them because. Because you have put a context around them where it's like, oh, they're in the movie.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

And so you can follow them against these very rich, rich, bizarre backgrounds that are kind of out of step with what they are. And if you were gonna try to recreate, like, if Boy meets. Did you guys ever shoot an episode on location in the real world?

[Ryder Strong]

This is just a little bit. But, no, mostly they did. We went to Disney World.

[Danielle Fishel]

Disney World, Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I wasn't invited.

[Matt Johnson]

That's evil.

[Danielle Fishel]

It is.

[Will Friedle]

It's horrible.

[Matt Johnson]

It's horrifying.

[Will Friedle]

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Matt Johnson]

So let me ask you something, because this. This episode doesn't come to me mind. For me, do you remember watching that episode and thinking, oh, there's a real esthetic shift when we're in Outside and Within. Like, is it. It's so crazy. I remember Frasier shot an episode where they actually shot in Seattle, and it doesn't. It doesn't look like the show at all. You just.

[Ryder Strong]

It's so jarring.

[Matt Johnson]

Seinfeld had the same issue, and we were thinking, okay, let's have it. So that.

[Will Friedle]

That.

[Matt Johnson]

That is our base level, the outside in the world, real people. Like, that's. That's what the show always looks like. So there isn't the.

[Will Friedle]

That's great.

[Matt Johnson]

When you go from. From one to the.

[Will Friedle]

Well, that's one of the. I'm convinced it's still. You know, everyone said they hated the story, but I think psychologically, one of the reasons people hated the last episode of Seinfeld is because they didn't recognize any of the sets. Yeah, they're in there in a different place, Then they're in court, then they're in. It's like, wait a minute. I'VE I've been. For nine years I've been watching these people in this apartment. And now you're not going to have them in the apartment. How do you end this this way? Yeah. So that's why I still think it was a psychological thing for people where it's like, I didn't like the story. It's like. Yeah, but I also think you didn't know where you were.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And that's, that's a big concession, especially on sitcom. It becomes. You want it to be there. Our living room is your living room. That's how that works.

[Matt Johnson]

And so when you take ability that lets you then break.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, exactly. So.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh God.

[Will Friedle]

I just, I'm thinking about the idea of 200 days of shooting.

[Ryder Strong]

I can't get the idea. Well, so I'm curious.

[Danielle Fishel]

You, you.

[Ryder Strong]

So you made BlackBerry which is sort of a leap up into more mainstream, more Hollyw Hollywood style film filmmaking and then you choose to go back to nirvana. That. Is that the. Right. That's the order. Right. So why, what, what was the process? Did you enjoy BlackBerry? Was that, is that what you want to continue doing? Are you going to try and do both styles of filmmaking?

[Matt Johnson]

Well, I already made the Bourdain movie in Cape Cod a few months ago and that was shot very much like BlackBerry with a script where it's all. With a huge crew. Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Are you in that one as well as.

[Matt Johnson]

Well, no, no, I couldn't. Interesting. There wasn't, there was not a role for me. It's 1975. Anthony Bourdain is, is 20 years old, falling in love. Meeting. Yeah, it was. You didn't Hitchcock it.

[Will Friedle]

You didn't Hitchcock it at all. You're walking in, you're walking a dog in the background.

[Ryder Strong]

You're.

[Will Friedle]

You're the barista. Nothing.

[Matt Johnson]

It would have been like Eric Matthews walking onto the set of Mad Men.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, I get you. Yeah, I get you. It makes sense.

[Matt Johnson]

People would have been like, like such an error that again, you'll see the movie and maybe have a different opinion. But. But the answer is yes. I like working in, in things where it is not, for lack of a better word, all about me, where it's not like my own, where I'm at the center of it. And, and it. I didn't think I ever would like making movies like that. And BlackBerry was quite painful to, to make take.

[Danielle Fishel]

But.

[Matt Johnson]

I feel like it has been an opportunity for me to. Oh, how do I say this unpretentiously? It's like I, I like exploring story that way. And I feel like whatever it was that I had to say with, with this childish, adolescent, make your own reality style of filmmaking, I am finding ways to transpose into these more standard stories because I think that message is. Is somehow important. I think weirdly, it's the message of my life, which is that there is a kid in everybody. And so much of adulthood is learning to silence and strangle that for good reason. Like, we have to socialize ourselves to be normal, but if you kill that person, you actually die. And, and so trying to. To where the message of. Of more or less anything I do is that. That you were who you are when you were 10. And that may humiliate you, that that may not be who you want to be, but you really can't escape that. And so you may as well embrace all the positives or whatever that was.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

To, To. For.

[Will Friedle]

For.

[Matt Johnson]

For its maximum. Because otherwise you're all. You're just going to be pure Persona. Like, you won't actually get to live life. You're. You're gonna. You're gonna be a performer forever.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I always say. I mean, I say this to my wife, I say this to my friends. I always live by a very simple model motto, which is there is a very big difference between childish and childlike.

[Matt Johnson]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And so I think I, like, I embrace it. And you have to. I mean, it's. It's super important, but yeah, it's.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, one of the things that I've always loved about your work is, is also your actual, like, you're a genuinely wonderful actor. And I learned from the best dude.

[Will Friedle]

It's.

[Ryder Strong]

It's. And I think that. I think that, you know, in something like Black Bear, I could see your influence just by being part of the team. You know, you're in on. In the scene with them, you can see the other actors sort of upping their game or adjusting to you. So I'm curious, when you're not in the scene with them, how has it been working with actors and trying. Are you still like doing scenes? Are you like, what's it been like to direct actors?

[Matt Johnson]

I'll tell you my process. This movie with Dominic Cesa, the cast of the Bordeaux movie is unbelievable. Like, especially the four main pillars of it. And Dominic Cesa, who was the star of the Holdovers, he's the young guy who is buddies with Giamatti. The. The way that I work is that I typically wind up doing most of the writing with the lead. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So.

[Matt Johnson]

So Glenn, Jay and I on BlackBerry like, we talked a lot about, like, what it was that was interesting in this script that was also kind of a part of their life and trying to find as many connections to that as we possibly could. And in that discussion, you wind up talking through a lot of the scenes on Tony with Dominic says that so much of it is us going through it together, finding ways to make one another laugh. And on set, I'm like, literally right beside the actual actors when we're doing scenes. Like, I'm touching them in most cases, right? Like, I mean, physically, my hand, especially with. With Dom, like, we would be in physical contact with one another during takes.

[Ryder Strong]

And then you're rewriting on the day, you're like, oh, that didn't work. Let's try this. Or, you know, normally, it's not me.

[Matt Johnson]

Saying that didn't work normally, it's Dom telling me, right? We need to change it right now. Because you know what? You guys will know this when. When you're not telling the truth, when you are being given dialogue where it's like, wait a minute. A minute. Sean would say this.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

And the director's like, that's the line. You're like, ah, yeah, but wait a minute.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Matt Johnson]

You don't understand. It's hard to make people understand that. It's like, I can't say that. And it's not that I have. I'm moralizing or that I'm, like, trying to be a diva. Topanga can't say that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Matt Johnson]

You trying to get me to say that is like a. You're, like, you're torturing me. And you're not just torturing me, you're kind of kidding me. Killing what it is that this is. And I think that because I. I love acting, and I love acting in my own things, and I'm always playing myself. I wound up learning, oh, you can't actually have an actor lie if. If they're.

[Ryder Strong]

If.

[Matt Johnson]

Unless that's their skill set. Unless they're Denzel Washington and they can literally make any piece of dialogue sound like.

[Will Friedle]

Right, right.

[Matt Johnson]

Like, certain people who have a gift.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally, totally.

[Matt Johnson]

But if you don't, you just. You just can't. And so I'm. I'm always like, if an actor says, this doesn't work for me. It's not even a discussion. It'. One, you're right. And two, let's figure out what. How you do say this.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

But you just mentioned Denzel Washington. Who. If you could pick anybody, who would you work with? Like, who are you? Is that who you.

[Matt Johnson]

Really?

[Will Friedle]

Is that who you. That'd be your pick. You'd pick Denzel.

[Matt Johnson]

I think he's the best actor alive. There is no movie. Where did you see the Gladiator? He can do anything.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, not a good movie. Great. He's awesome. Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Everything he says just like yes, yes.

[Will Friedle]

Write that down.

[Matt Johnson]

Whatever he just said. That's. That's a deep truth.

[Will Friedle]

Write it down.

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

It's awesome.

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[Danielle Fishel]

There are some pretty big rumors about you with future movies like Magic the Gathering.

[Will Friedle]

So it's not a rumor. It's not a rumor.

[Matt Johnson]

You a magic.

[Will Friedle]

Are you.

[Ryder Strong]

Are you kidding me?

[Will Friedle]

Are you kidding? Oh, my God, dude, 25 years we've been playing. Are you kidding? Yes.

[Matt Johnson]

You really love magic cards.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, wow.

[Will Friedle]

Ryder taught me how to play magic at a hash bar in Amsterdam. No, I'm in Hashbar in Amsterdam. He taught me how to play magic the Gathering.

[Ryder Strong]

We were in the back. We were backstage. A boy playing magic all the time. Yes, the time.

[Matt Johnson]

I can't believe that. So magic cards taught me to read when I was a kid. I refused to read. I thought reading was for girls. You know, I was like, like 5 years old. They truly. It's a. It's a generational problem that literacy seems somehow feminine to certain people. And it was only through comics and magic cards, literally, that I was like, oh, reading can be amazing.

[Will Friedle]

Amazing.

[Matt Johnson]

And it was because, Danielle, have you seen a magic card before?

[Will Friedle]

Oh, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

They got me playing. Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

What's so great for young people with magic cards is that in order to play you, it is a game about reading. And what's so great is so many of the cards are verbs. And so it's like an action word. And so there's the name, there's a picture of what's happening, and then you get to see what the rules text are. So it's such a great. For me, I'm being like, oh, yeah, a lightning bolt. And there is a lightning bolt. That must be a lightning bolt.

[Ryder Strong]

But now the problem. Now the problem is your vocabulary is peppered with words like Irma's and thopter and g. You think these are real.

[Will Friedle]

Words that actually relate to the world. Is one red. Tap one red for your lightning bolt, does three points of damage.

[Ryder Strong]

It's an instant.

[Will Friedle]

So. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. You throw in random vocabulary. Yeah. There's so many times when I've realized, like, oh, that's just a magic term that doesn't make sense to anybody else in the world.

[Matt Johnson]

Ryder, do you know why the vocabulary in magic cards become so esoteric and interesting and become such a. Why they. White ramps up in terms of its difficulty. It's because they're printing so many cards, they need to find new words to say these same simple verbs. And so it's such an. Admit.

[Will Friedle]

Oh.

[Matt Johnson]

Anyway, I'm. I was addicted. I wanted to be a professional magic card player when I was a kid. That was my dream. And I. It was at the end of film school where I was going to Grand Prix Detroit, and I had made day two, which is if, you know, this is like a big magic card tournament. And it was limited Champions of Kamigawa Block. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to become a professional magic card player. I'm just a kid, I guess it was in second year, actually, and I lost. I came like, 37th or something like that. And I was like, damn it. And then I decided that day, I think I'll just. I'll just finish film school.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'll just make films.

[Ryder Strong]

It was. And here comes full circle.

[Will Friedle]

Cool.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Colors.

[Will Friedle]

Wait, I. Wait, wait. First, I want to know what. What did you play?

[Matt Johnson]

Well, I played limited. I. I played. I played everything. Like, I played magic so much that to say what. I would play whatever was winning. But. But colors that I love are blue and red. Like, I love Izzet, but I love gr. I love every color. Like, I love back in the day when the color wheel wasn't so defined, like, there'd be all kinds of crazy effects happening in every single. The very first card I ever opened was bat balance.

[Will Friedle]

I won balance from Ryder's brother Shiloh in a game. We were playing for cards, and it's.

[Matt Johnson]

The first card I ever won.

[Ryder Strong]

We played for Annie back in the.

[Will Friedle]

Day, and I won my battle. I still have it. I still have my balance card. It's a phenomenal card.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, what can you tell us about the movie? What can you tell us? Like, what, are you writing it right now?

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, it's being written. We're writing it right now. And I. And hopefully we.

[Will Friedle]

We.

[Matt Johnson]

I don't even. I can really. I can say. But.

[Ryder Strong]

But.

[Matt Johnson]

But it's it, I think. But I'll say this. Magic card fans are going to love this movie because I am a. I am a. I am a. I'm a. I'm a. Like, magic cards raised me. And so when I found out they were making a movie, I said, oh, I should make this, because it. The outcome of it will matter a lot to me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Like, I want this movie to be for other people. What this game did for me when I was a kid, which is open up a world of. I can't even say, you know, it's just too much. But anyway, I so amaz. You guys are magic.

[Ryder Strong]

That's amazing.

[Will Friedle]

I never. I never ever do this. Can Ryder and I come to the set and be atmosphere?

[Matt Johnson]

I was about to say, you have to.

[Ryder Strong]

I want to come back.

[Matt Johnson]

Of course. Are you kidding?

[Ryder Strong]

Are you going to be shooting in America or where you. Do you even know?

[Matt Johnson]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

I just want to come back.

[Ryder Strong]

We will come wherever. We will.

[Matt Johnson]

We will be there. Are you kidding? Oh, so you're invited to.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I will come. I will come. They tried to get. They got me to play on a slumber party night, and I don't know. I don't know if the game's for me, but I will. I will come. I would like to just officially ask if you would like to be our new Corey.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Would you? When we do.

[Matt Johnson]

When we do the new one? Here's the thing. I don't think I have what Corey has because he, more than any other character in that show, had a couple kind of moral center and an indignity when that was impugned that I could. I mean, if you.

[Danielle Fishel]

If.

[Matt Johnson]

If Will dies, then I'll have. Then you'll have a use for me. I can't. I can't be. It's not possible. Right? It would be.

[Ryder Strong]

It would be.

[Matt Johnson]

Again, it would be such a stretch. What he was doing was. Was. Was unique. I mean, he. He was the center of that show, which. Which, like Seinfeld was like so many of these shows, kind of meant that he couldn't really be that fun.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. Yeah, Right.

[Matt Johnson]

Like, things needed to happen to him. One of my. One of my favorite episodes. Episodes, and actually an episode that becomes more and more true to me the older I get is when Ryder sneaks into the philosophy class and what does the professor say? He's like, oh, you're brilliant, but you. But you don't know how to write. Like, you actually need to Go back to high school to understand the basics. This is like, that is so deeply. I mean this is. Sounds so insipid, like so moronic for me. But it's like that was in the same way that I thought I would leave film school and just make all kinds of crazy. No rules, like nothing mattered. It would be pure insanity captured on camera. It's like I had to go through that exact exact learning where it was, oh, I can. I've got great ideas. I can. That's all I need. Right? And it was, oh no, I actually need to learn how to write. I need to put all my stories in this structure that they were trying to teach me in film school but I thought was lame and I didn't want to have anything to do with. It's like I literally went through that episode of the show. So yeah, I think I could play. I think I could maybe play Sean. I could definitely play Eric. I can't play Corey.

[Danielle Fishel]

You couldn't be.

[Matt Johnson]

Okay, what am I going to do?

[Ryder Strong]

Completely agree.

[Will Friedle]

So I'm out of a job. Thanks, Matt.

[Matt Johnson]

No, Are you kidding me? What's going on? What's going on with Boy Meets World? I. I'm so painfully ignorant. Like, is like, are you. You guys had a.

[Danielle Fishel]

We had Girl Meets World.

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, they do a Girl Meets World.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we did a Girl Meets World and now there's nothing going on with it. We just met. I meant more actually in our personal circle. Will you be our Ben? Will you be.

[Matt Johnson]

I come and join the clique.

[Danielle Fishel]

Can you just be?

[Matt Johnson]

Four of us are now interviewing other people and I'm just a Boy Meets World fan.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Love it.

[Ryder Strong]

We're just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, great. That's really what we, what we want.

[Matt Johnson]

Oh, that's so funny.

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[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, I know you have talked about with this. With. And now we're talking about Magic the Gathering and that you are going to infuse your sensibility into all the movies you do, but is there also a possibility that you're gonna just keep alternating between, you know, Magic the Gathering style movies?

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah, I think yes. And I think that's actually a good thing to. I hope I get to do it like that. The thing is I have a, like a group of friends who I work with all the time and. And it is impossible in some ways to move that group into these gigantic American productions where in some ways, like on the Bourdain movie. Well, like I am a. I'm a much smaller piece of the machine.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Matt Johnson]

As I'm sure you guys can relate to. On, like on. As soon as something gets so big.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

Like the director is, is an important person, but they're not. They don't get to call really any of the real big shots. And so that is. That's a very different system.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Matt Johnson]

And so yeah, I'm going to continue to make movies in Canada where it is just this small group of people working out of the office I'm in right now and then larger style films where I get to deal with like, like things that were important to me as a kid. It's strange change how whether it's Magic cards or Anthony Bourdain or BlackBerry, all of these things are all stuff that I just was exposed to when I was a young teenager and I just can't escape.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, it's like they're just now we're all best friends.

[Will Friedle]

So.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So that's how it works.

[Ryder Strong]

Don't escape.

[Danielle Fishel]

So Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie will be showing in Boston, Dallas, Austin and Chicago in December and then wide come February 13, 2020, 26. And when can we see Tony, the Anthony Bourdain movie? When will that be released?

[Matt Johnson]

I think 824 is releasing it next year, but I don't know when.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Okay.

[Matt Johnson]

I'm so excited. You know what, I'll invite you guys to the. Please, we'll all go together.

[Danielle Fishel]

We would love that.

[Will Friedle]

That. Yeah, Hell yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Definitely.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean thank you so much for being here and I mean just thrilling to have you. I'm sure you could tell by the way we all fan fan fanned out over you.

[Matt Johnson]

But I can say sincerely was much more so for me, I. I mean, I hope I've expressed it, but the work that you guys did when you were just kids, and I recognize that I. I know. I know that at some level it was out of your control, but it shaped me and my family's view of the world. From. From wherever you were shooting the show in the United States, it. It making it up to Ontario, it was like the. The vague mecham for us. We carry it with us wherever we go.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for time with us and we'll see you at the premiere.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, thanks so much, man.

[Matt Johnson]

Goodbye. Yeah, goodbye. It was nice meeting you too. Goodbye, Ryder. I'll see you again.

[Danielle Fishel]

We'll see you again for sure.

[Will Friedle]

Definitely. Bye.

[Ryder Strong]

Bye.

[Danielle Fishel]

What a guy.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, man. It's so cool.

[Will Friedle]

First of all, it's a combination of a brilliant filmmaker and an incredible actor who also just wanted to spend his time making us feel awesome about ourselves.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, that's the thing. Like, it's so. I always love this moment when you connect with somebody, work, you know, like the way I did with his movies, where I just immediately was like, there's something going on here that speaks to me as a writer, as an artist, as an actor. What? All of it. And then when I actually met him and he reciprocates that, you know, he's like, well, you were a huge influence on me. And we were able to. I was just like, oh, my God. Like, I love. That's like one of my favorite things. And, you know, I mean, like, he, you know, like he says, you know, he's waxing poetic about the influence of Boy Meets World on his life. But. And. And I. And I think some of that is hyperbolic to a degree. But on the other hand, it's also like, he believes that art can change the world. He believes that the things he's saying, even though they're silly, fun movies, often are affecting viewers. They are getting under your skin. They are. And like, that's. That's a real artist, you know?

[Will Friedle]

Can I tell you something, writer? Can I tell you something? In that nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, has made me re. Evaluate my creation, creative output.

[Ryder Strong]

Me too, man. I'm in the exact same space.

[Matt Johnson]

We were texting.

[Will Friedle]

Ryder and I were texting about it last night. Like, we gotta get together, we gotta do something. We gotta. I mean, it's. It makes you want to be creative, but you also have to realize he is a one in a million creative who can. Who can handle that undertaking the kind.

[Ryder Strong]

Of chaos with structure that he's constantly balancing. So much work.

[Will Friedle]

It's genius.

[Ryder Strong]

So much work.

[Will Friedle]

200 days of shooting. 200 hundred days of shooting. That's insanity.

[Ryder Strong]

I know, but the movie is so funny. Everybody out there, if you can get. If you can watch it, if you just get a hold of this movie when it's out or in your town, it is so freaking good. It's one of the. I haven't laughed that hard at a movie in, like, a decade. Yeah, I was crying with laughter at the premiere. I watched it again two nights ago and I just could not stop laughing again. It's so brilliant. And, yeah, I love it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, man.

[Ryder Strong]

He's a hero.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you all for listening to this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod Meets World show. You can send us your emails. Podmeetsworldshowmail.com and we've got merch.

[Will Friedle]

Two whites, two blues. Tap for merch.

[Danielle Fishel]

Podmeetsworldshow.com will send us out.

[Will Friedle]

We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets Worlds is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle and Ryan Rider Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Sudbaksh, producer Matty Moore, engineer, and Boy Meets World superfan, Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon, and you can follow us on Instagram at Podmeats Worldshow or email [e-mail] I've got a holiday hack for you. Three words. Triple treat, bottom box.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Get two medium pizzas, breadsticks and dessert. Starting at 19.99.

[Will Friedle]

It's the only meal that holidays as hard as your favorite ugly sweater. You know, the one with all the bells and ribbons. Same vibe. More cheese.

[Ryder Strong]

Pizza Hut's triple treat box is back for a limited time order now online or through the app.

[Will Friedle]

Limited time only. Additional charge for pan, extra cheese, extra topping. Select desserts and cheese stick. Upgrade. Product availability, packaging, prices and participation vary. Taxes, tip and deliver, delivery fees, extra.

[Matt Johnson]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Matt Johnson]

This is an iHeart podcast.