Nobody’s Angel (Ali & Sarah) Meets World

Summary

Pod Meets World: "Nobody’s Angel (Ali & Sarah) Meets World" – Detailed Episode Summary

Episode Information:

• Title: Nobody’s Angel (Ali & Sarah) Meets World
• Release Date: July 14, 2025
• Host: Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Will Friedle (executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman; producer Danielle Romo; engineer Easton Allen)
• Guests: Ally Navarro and Sarah Christine Smith, former members of the pop group Nobody's Angel

---

1. Introduction

The episode begins with the hosts—Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, and Will Friedle—transitioning from advertisements to the main content. At approximately [03:07], Ryder Strong opens the discussion by humorously lamenting the absence of certain phrases, marking the official start of "Pod Meets World."

2. Guest Introduction

At [13:21], the hosts introduce the special guests, Ally Navarro and Sarah Christine Smith, former members of the early 2000s pop group Nobody's Angel. Ryder Strong sets the stage by highlighting the group's integration into the "Boy Meets World" universe during the show's sixth season.

3. Formation of Nobody's Angel

[16:55] Ally Navarro recounts the origins of Nobody's Angel, explaining how they met through auditions and a producer's vision. Danielle Fishel adds that the group's formation was a collaborative effort, with each member bringing unique talents from acting, dancing, and musical theater backgrounds.

Notable Quote:

Ally Navarro ([17:43]): "We'd go into malls, and no one knew who she was. It wasn't the phenomenon that it became, so seeing where she... it just started blowing up from there."

4. Experiences on "Boy Meets World"

[32:21] Sarah Smith shares her emotional experience during a meeting with Michael Jacobs, the showrunner, where personal stories were used to shape their characters. Danielle Fishel reminisces about how the group's story intertwined with the show's narrative.

Notable Quotes:

Sarah Smith ([32:27]): "I cried. It was a lot going on in her life."

Danielle Fishel ([33:11]): "We were all crying in the office and... that's how it ended up."

5. Music Industry Challenges

The conversation delves into the harsh realities of the music industry during the late '90s and early 2000s. Danielle Fishel provides an insider's perspective on financial struggles despite apparent fame, emphasizing the misconceptions about artists' earnings.

Notable Quotes:

Danielle Fishel ([44:08]): "We were not making. In the record industry, there's no rules. It's like the wild, wild west."

Will Friedle ([47:17]): "Nothing. You didn't get an 8 cent check from Boy Meets World? Nothing."

The hosts and guests discuss the shift in the industry with the advent of digital downloads, streaming services, and the decline of traditional revenue models, highlighting how these changes adversely affected artists' earnings and sustainability.

Notable Quote:

Ryder Strong ([56:37]): "The economic model disappearing, completely upside down. I don't know how it's sustainable."

6. Reflections and Impact

Ally Navarro reflects on the personal growth and career propulsion that resulted from their stint on "Boy Meets World," while Danielle Fishel shares the emotional impact and the group's subsequent struggles with internal conflicts and record label issues.

Notable Quotes:

Ally Navarro ([67:21]): "That week propelled my acting career... it was a turning point."

Danielle Fishel ([68:06]): "It brings so many wonderful happy memories because it was a dream we all had as a unit and we achieved it."

7. Future Prospects and Current Endeavors

The guests discuss their post-Nobody's Angel careers. Sarah Smith has successfully transitioned into acting and teaching dance, while Ally Navarro has developed her alter ego, Twinkle Time, focusing on children's music and family-friendly performances.

Notable Quotes:

Ally Navarro ([62:31]): "I'm working with awesome people. I love my reps. It's a concert now, not a musical."

Danielle Fishel ([66:30]): "We learned so much. So much."

8. Closing Thoughts and Final Remarks

In the final segments, the hosts and guests reflect on the evolving nature of the entertainment industry, the importance of adaptability, and the personal resilience required to navigate its challenges. They humorously brainstorm forming a new band, "Everybody's Devil," underscoring the camaraderie and enduring relationships formed through their shared experiences.

Notable Quote:

Will Friedle ([73:07]): "Everybody's Devil. Let's go. This is our band."

Conclusion

"Nobody’s Angel (Ali & Sarah) Meets World" offers a rich, behind-the-scenes look at the intersections of music and television through the lens of former pop group members Ally Navarro and Sarah Smith. The episode delves deep into the formation and challenges of being in a girl group, the impact of their appearance on "Boy Meets World," and the broader shifts within the music and entertainment industries. With heartfelt reflections and engaging anecdotes, the episode provides valuable insights for fans and newcomers alike, highlighting the resilience and adaptability required to thrive in the ever-evolving landscape of entertainment.

---

Notable Quotes Summary:

• Ally Navarro ([17:43]): "We'd go into malls, and no one knew who she was. It wasn't the phenomenon that it became..."
• Sarah Smith ([32:27]): "I cried. It was a lot going on in her life."
• Danielle Fishel ([44:08]): "We were not making. In the record industry, there's no rules..."
• Ryder Strong ([56:37]): "The economic model disappearing, completely upside down..."
• Ally Navarro ([67:21]): "That week propelled my acting career..."
• Will Friedle ([73:07]): "Everybody's Devil. Let's go. This is our band."

These moments encapsulate the emotional depth, industry challenges, and personal growth discussed throughout the episode.

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Will Friedle]

Hey, it's Danielle Fishel Ryder Strong and Will Friedle.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Unknown]

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[Will Friedle]

Listen, if you've ever yelled, get off the phone. I'm trying to use the Internet. It may be time for Neutrogena Retinol Regenerating Cream, available online or at Walmart.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

The one that's so you.

[Ally Navarro]

You've basically become known for it. And if you don't know yet, fashionistas.

[Danielle Fishel]

You'Ll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the.

[Ally Navarro]

Cousteau Barcelona Cowboy top.

[Danielle Fishel]

Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee.

[Ally Navarro]

Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion.

[Danielle Fishel]

Ebay Things people love hey, it's Ryan.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

Have we. Have we officially run out of. To say after 30 years, has it happened finally? Welcome to Pod Meats World.

[Ryder Strong]

We could talk about the zombies.

[Unknown]

Welcome to Pod Meats. Indy was genuinely pissed that you got to see it before him. He was like, it's coming out. I'm like, yeah, I think Will's already got his copy. He's like, what? Why does he get a copy? I was like, he's got a podcast.

[Ryder Strong]

He didn't want to hear anything about it.

[Unknown]

He's so cute. I was like, he really wants to be, like, the first to see every. I was like, oh, great.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, that's so funny. Adler was trying. I was trying to explain to Adler what a premiere is and what. What it means. And I was like, so we're one of the first people to see it? And he's like, are there going to be a lot of people there? And I was like, yeah, there's going to be a lot of people there. And he's like, then not that big of a deal. We're not like, okay, never mind. Fine. Whatever.

[Danielle Fishel]

Whatever.

[Ryder Strong]

Also, Adler dancing before the movie. So they had two DJs in the balcony sections of the El Capitan. One for the Daybreaker side and one for the vampire side. And they like, oh, my God. And everybody got bracelets. And you were either assigned to the vampires or the Daybreakers. And it was just like this whole really fun thing. And Adler is literally. I don't even know where he learned this move, but he's doing this sprinkler.

[Will Friedle]

Hell, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Just. Just in his seat doing the sprinkler and then going, yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, totally.

[Ryder Strong]

Dancing up a storm. Casey Stroh, incredible dancer from High School Musical, taps me on the shoulder. She's like, danielle, please tell me he's in dance, because he clearly has the bug.

[Will Friedle]

When is this kid gonna have time to take another class to do something else?

[Ryder Strong]

That's what I said. I said he was in dance and he had a dance class. He loved it. But guess what? He's now moved on to something else that he loves.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

If I were to suggest a dance class, he'd be like, yeah, I should do that. He. He'd be fine. He wants to be booked day to night.

[Unknown]

Wow. That's the opposite of Indy, because Indy has Always been able to dance too. Like he used to do it when he was like three. I remember like Michael Jackson, like, I remember the school, his preschool sent us a video because they started playing Beat it or whatever at the school and having a dance party and they were just like, look at this. And it was just Indy just going crazy. And we were like, dude, you got to take classes. We got him in one class. He hated it and he's never gone back. And then he did the Descendants recently, a play, play version of the Descendants. And he was playing Prince Ben or King Ben or whatever, the main guy who's like supposed to be sort of drawn to the dark side in the course of it. And so there's, you know, there was some dancing, but the way Indy played it was like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to dance. And then, oh, I'll follow the moves because they're like teaching him how to. And he again can still dance like crazy, but he's doing it all in this sort of like ironic half assed way on stage where like you are so frustrating. Like just commit. But if I ask him to take on anything, a class, something he likes to do, what I have to do, that I already do gymnastics, I already take singing lessons and it's like, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But you were good.

[Unknown]

Okay, dude, like everything's insane. It's.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, kids are frustrating.

[Will Friedle]

Hey, I'm the same way. I don't want to take a bunch of classes.

[Unknown]

Yeah, no, you would. Yes. My son is you and I am raising Will Friedle and I have to get him out of the goddamn house.

[Will Friedle]

And no, the house is awesome and it's a wonderful place. If I can learn to dance and everything here, that'd be fine.

[Unknown]

But seriously, that's the only way. The music, like the reason that he is, you know, thriving in piano and singing is because the teacher comes to our house and like he doesn't have to go anywhere and he shuts and he loves it and he has so much fun. So yeah, maybe I just need to get like a whole acting class in our backyard going or something, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Or even for dance stuff. I'm sure there are you. There's a YouTube dance class that, where he could like self teach, you know, he could be a self taught, incredible dancer.

[Unknown]

More screen time.

[Ryder Strong]

I know, I know.

[Ally Navarro]

Sorry, I hate it.

[Ryder Strong]

But on a laptop.

[Unknown]

Yes, we have a screen time. Makes everything better.

[Will Friedle]

That's the way it is. I. Everything. You can YouTube anything now I can basically fix this entire house just with YouTube.

[Ryder Strong]

It's the greatest cousin is the most incredible woodworker. All self taught from YouTube.

[Will Friedle]

Thank you.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean he made his family's 12 foot dining table and 12 chairs gorgeous. Like, has every tool you could possibly imagine. Incredible. It takes forever because he also has a full time job. So he does it like on the side, but man, it's. You can, you can teach yourself anything.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, YouTube is the best. You don't have to leave your house. You don't have to have anybody else come into your house.

[Ryder Strong]

Ryder, how did it happen that you are raising Will friedle?

[Danielle Fishel]

How did this happen?

[Will Friedle]

What's Indy's brand of smokes? What is. He's 10 now. So is he a camel guy? Is it Camelites? Because I didn't find camel lights till 12. I saw started with Parliament, so I didn't know what his pick was. Okay. It's interesting. It's a very personal choice when you're 10.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. No, I have to come to terms with it. I have to like embrace, you know, I have to that. That this is like the parenting challenge now. And I, I know it's everybody but like just meeting him where he is, you know, and not like trying to.

[Will Friedle]

Change him because you have to, because we're not going anywhere else. So you gotta meet us where we are.

[Unknown]

But it's just crazy because I think, you know, I think I thought, I think I thought of this. What I'm going through right now with Indy, I thought would happen when he's like 13, 14, you know, I sort of have to let him go. But like, I don't know if it's him or just kids in general or. It's just the reality that I never understood is that like by 10, you already feel like they're kind of who they're going to be and you just have to get out of their way, support them and like validate all the time. You know, it's just constantly like, it's okay that you're feeling this way about having to go to gymnastics class. You still have to go. Yeah, like trying to like change his feelings and be like, you should like it. You always like it. What are you talking about? Why are you crying? You know? No, that's like a useless 20 minute like argument. Whereas if I just go, yeah, man, gymnastics is hard. That must suck to have to go there. All right, get out of the car. We're there. And then, and then he comes back having had the best time.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. That's what's so frustrating. Because Keep Keaton's the same way. Keaton would pick him up from school. It's like, okay, we're going to karate. Karate. No, turn the car that way, please. I don't want to go to karate. 30 minutes of crying hysterics or, you know, trying to distract him, give him a snack, anything. And then time to go out on the mat. Goes out on the mat, comes back. How was karate? Great. I love it. It's like, where is this energy?

[Unknown]

And then you're. And then with India, I'll be like, and now we have to do homework.

[Will Friedle]

Homework.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's like. It's just every. Every transition, every state. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

That's.

[Unknown]

That's just the way.

[Will Friedle]

But it's also. We had. Especially Ryder, you and I had, like, a balance growing up, where we both grew up kind of in the woods. And so you would have your time with your friends in the woods. We were motorcycler. We were. We were camping. We were fishing, smoking. We were. But then I would go to the city to do my auditions. Like, then I had kind of a work thing. So you had that balance, which a lot of people don't. Especially when you're in a city. If you live in la, you don't have that same kind of.

[Unknown]

But do you guys remember when we interviewed my parents and I feel like this question came up at some point about how they raised us or how they were raised. And my dad was like, no, we just let them do whatever they wanted after the age of 10. Do you remember? He said that? He was like, we just figured they were done. And I'm kind of. You know, at the time, I was like, was that good? Was that a good idea? Like, that seems kind of like you were maybe just letting us.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, I'm tired.

[Unknown]

Be raised by wolves or whatever, but now I'm kind of like, no, I. I think maybe that was right. Like, there's not much to do, Indy. You're on your own. Good luck, kid.

[Ryder Strong]

You know? Right?

[Unknown]

Get an agent, start making some money, save for college.

[Will Friedle]

What is this guy.

[Unknown]

I'll drive you there. But I'm just going to get out of your way at this point.

[Will Friedle]

What is he waiting? Right? Like, what do you. Come on.

[Ryder Strong]

Hey, let's.

[Unknown]

Let's take the bus to New York. Let's go buy your porn mags.

[Will Friedle]

Cigarettes. You're 10. Let's go. You're behind pretty well. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You're behind.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, I was sued by 11.

[Unknown]

What is he waiting for? Yeah, no, I mean, really, it's the difference between, like. Like, when. Up until I would say 8 or 9, and certainly by 10, I feel like. I feel like there was this transition of, you know, parenting. Like, I have to. I have to tell him what's right or wrong or how, you know, to do this or to not do that. And now I feel like best thing I can do is just be, like, a model. Like, just be a heroic model and who's. Who's cool and that. He, like, looks up to it and hopefully wants to hang out with. And, like, it's just a different thing. Like, he doesn't automatically want to hang out with me anymore. Like, you know, up until, like, eight, everything I did was cool. And, man, did I take advantage of that. Felt so good. But now I'm like, you know, he's gonna roll his eyes at me most of the time, so.

[Will Friedle]

Cast in the Cradle is a good song. Cast in the Cradle is a good song, man. That's why it lasts. It's because it just.

[Unknown]

That that's it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's crazy.

[Will Friedle]

This is another reason all these problems you're going through, another reason not to have any children. It's the best. None of the. I don't have to worry about any of these things at all, ever. And I still don't want to go to karate. I have a white belt in 14 different forms of karate.

[Unknown]

You guys made it to, like, three glasses. What do you.

[Will Friedle]

Did we make three? I don't know if we made three.

[Ryder Strong]

I made three. I don't know that Will made two, but.

[Will Friedle]

But again, I'm a white belt in 42 different forms of martial arts. So back up. That's all I gotta say. Careful.

[Unknown]

Bloodsport, starring Will Friedle.

[Will Friedle]

Hell yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Welcome to Podbeats World. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Unknown]

I'm Rider Strong.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm Will Friedle.

[Ryder Strong]

Boy Meets World didn't rely on celebrity cameos the way the Brady Bunch or Scooby Doo did. But when we did shamelessly reach for the ratings bait of stunt casting, we made it count. Corey is feeling down on himself and needs some fastball inspiration. We summons Jim Abbott. Eric is on thin ice and needs a little skating fantasy. Someone get Nancy Kerrigan on the line. Topanga needs to be low key. Sexually harassed by an old man with a broccoli fetish. Well, you know who to call. And if Corey and Sean are gonna make a quick diner stop on their road trip for independence, it's only logical they'd run into a bubblegum pop girl group looking to hit it Big and escape the strict confines of their a hole boss slash lonely father. And for that, producers called Nobody's Angel. Allie Navarro, Stacy Harper, Amy Sue Hardy and Sarah Smith were signed to the Disney adjacent Hollywood Records having just released their solo self titled album and the label was always looking for ways to get them out. And through a series of events that we will learn more about today, Nobody's angel found their way into the lives of Corey and Sean, co starring in the season 6 fever dream road trip and performing their song I Can't help Myself to a very awkward writer. Strong.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, brilliant. Oh, it's just so. Oh, Chef's kiss. It's wonderful.

[Ryder Strong]

How did, how did this happen? What do they remember? And whatever happened to Nobody's Angel? Well, on this week's podcast we welcome two real life members of Nobody's angel. Two musicians who also participated in a number of other projects that are so Y2K. We ask that you break out your Tamagotchis just as a safety measure. And we have so many questions just based on their Wikipedias. Was it fun as a backup dancer for Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake? What's it like writing and performing pop music for kids under an alias and orange wig? But again, most importantly, how did you end up on the set of Boy Meets World? Let's find out now and welcome Ally Navarro and Sarah Christine Smith, formerly of Nobody's angel, to this week's Pod Meets World. Hi. Hello.

[Ally Navarro]

How are you?

[Ryder Strong]

Hey.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi.

[Ally Navarro]

Thanks for having us.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh my gosh. Thanks for being here. We made it happen. We're having a reunion.

[Unknown]

Are you ready to do your song?

[Will Friedle]

Let's go.

[Unknown]

Oh, God.

[Ryder Strong]

Me, me, me, me, me, me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Dear Warm Ups man, thank you both so much for joining us. I'm going to assume you still work in a small town diner for your dad and patrons come in and you sing for them on your breaks. Is that. Is that true?

[Ally Navarro]

100%. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Let's start with some Nobody's angel history. How did the group originally come together? Was everyone from la?

[Ally Navarro]

Not originally, no. I'm from Michigan originally, I think. Allie, you're the only one from LA originally, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I am born, raised Cali girl. So I met everybody here in California. Nice to see you, Sarah.

[Ryder Strong]

I didn't even think about the fact that you two probably hadn't seen each other in a long time.

[Danielle Fishel]

It's been a couple months. We did a podcast for Canada a couple months ago and that was the last time we saw each other. But only on Zoom because she lives in Canada. Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, so you're originally. Sarah, you're originally from Michigan.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

How did the band then come together? How did you guys get formed?

[Ally Navarro]

Well, I moved out to LA to be a professional dancer, so I was doing a dance scholarship at a studio, and I was at an audition one day and I met Allie, and it was for the Drew Carey show, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Were you guys both auditioning for the same part?

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. Yes. Yes.

[Ally Navarro]

It was at Morlandis. I don't even know if that's still around.

[Danielle Fishel]

Do you guys even know that is?

[Ally Navarro]

No, it's not there anymore.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, gone.

[Ally Navarro]

So, yeah, we would see each other periodically at auditions, and then we worked with a producer who. Yeah, had an idea for a band, and we all knew each other, and so we were like, let's do the thing. So we did it.

[Ryder Strong]

And so did the producer know the four of you individually, or did you guys.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes and no. So his name was. It was a production company, nine Ground Productions, and it was Andrew. And I worked with Andrew before doing, like, demos because I started my career as an actress singer, so I was doing, like, solo projects and different, like, you know, a lot of jingles, and that's kind of how we met. And then Amy sue from doing musical theater, and she's originally from Missouri. She, like, was out here, obviously, doing the whole auditioning thing, and that's how we met, doing musical theater. And then Stacy was kind of, like, the last person to kind of be a part of the thing. And so I think Sarah and I started doing the original demos for Nobody's angel, and I started shopping it, and.

[Ally Navarro]

And I knew Stacy from dance because she's a dancer, so I work with her a lot as a dancer, so. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

And so Allie, this also. Nobody's angel wasn't your first girl group on a family sitcom. Right. You were a part of Zoom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. How did you know that?

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, Zoom was on Sabrina, the Teenage Witch.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. So, okay, so that was with Holly Fields, my friend Chris Delet that I did Jesus Christ Superstar with, and obviously Jenna Green, who is in the show. And that's crazy. And so this deal was just gonna be for Japanese audience only. So we were working with a producer that's really known in that. The Japanese market. And so, you know, as. As a performer, just hustling. Right. Like, I was in that group and Nobody's angel, but in my heart, I always knew that Nobody's angel had the potential of just, like, really blowing up because we had a strong production as far as songs. Like, our songs were strong, and I just also felt a connection with Sarah and Amy, sue and Stacy. Like, I just knew in my heart that this was gonna go somewhere. We had no deal yet, but it just. But I was kind of like, I had one foot in here, one foot in there, and we're just doing both. And so Jenna actually pitched the idea to her producers, like, don't look for a girl group. I have a girl group. And so that's kind of how that came about. And unbeknownst to me, like, I didn't know who Backstreet Boys was at the time, and they were just kind of, like, kicking it off in the same states, I guess. They were huge overseas. Yes. And all of a sudden, like, later on, I was like, oh, my God, that's the Backstreet.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. In hindsight, you're like, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, that is so funny.

[Ally Navarro]

Did I know that you did Sabrina the Teenage with.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think you did, because it was like. Right.

[Unknown]

She was cheating on you with another girl.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, she was.

[Unknown]

She was hitching her bets.

[Will Friedle]

She had gifing you and Nobody's Angel.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. She's in, like, 14 groups. Yep. Seriously.

[Ally Navarro]

But it's funny because my boyfriend at the time was on Sabrina the Teenage Witch. And did you guys work together? Because he was reoccurring, so he wasn't on every episode.

[Danielle Fishel]

Mr. John Cuertos, I think he was in that show. But, like, it's not like a normal sitcom where you, like, have a live audience. They actually, like, did things without an audience.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Danielle Fishel]

So, yeah, so, like. Yeah, yeah. Certain days we taped. So I don't. I don't think we actually did a scene together.

[Ally Navarro]

Okay. That's so funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

So random. That's crazy. That's good homework, guys.

[Ryder Strong]

What a small world. Okay, Sarah, you mentioned you were more focused on dancing. You appeared in movies like Austin Powers playing a young Goldie Hawn and Laugh In. But you were also seen in Scream 2, and she's all that. So that was your journey to eventually joining the girls group. But I want to ask you about dancing for Britney and Justin.

[Ally Navarro]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

You were a backup dancer for them in the early days. Did you go on the road?

[Ally Navarro]

I did.

[Ryder Strong]

And tour with.

[Ally Navarro]

I toured with Britney, so I did the very first mall tour with her.

[Ryder Strong]

Mall tours.

[Will Friedle]

Nice.

[Ally Navarro]

It was. Well, it was so crazy because we would go into malls, and no one knew who she was. Right. We'd go in, we'd go shopping before our show. We'd go do our show. We'd. You Know, do, like, she'd sit and do autographs. We'd go walk around, and it was like, you know, it wasn't the phenomenon that it became, so seeing where she, like. And I remember the first time that I heard her song on the radio, like, I called Jive Records, and I was like, you guys, I just heard it on the radio, and they were like. And then it just started blowing up from there. So, yeah, I did that for a while with her, and then I kind of had to make the choice because it was right when Nobody's angel was starting, so I kind of had to make the choice. And so I made the choice to go with Nobody's angel, and I kind of had to let my touring with Brittany go, which I was super. You know, it was a hard choice for sure, because touring with the big artist was one of my dreams as a dancer, and I ended up doing that with Paul McCartney, so I can't say that it happened, but. But we ended up opening up for Britney, so it kind of was, you know, a win. Win all around. So.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And you're in the Hit Me One More Time music video, right?

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. What an iconic thing to be a part of.

[Ally Navarro]

And you never know. I mean, you guys know when you're on a set, you're doing the best you can. You're all making this thing, and then you just never know how it's gonna hit. And, like, Austin Powers had no idea. Like, that was my very first dance audition. And the girl who actually got the part ended up getting another job and had to back out. So I went and I got the call the day before. You're gonna go in and you're gonna audition. Mike and Joel. Okay, Mike and Joel.

[Ryder Strong]

Mike and Joel walk in.

[Ally Navarro]

I'm like, oh, my God, it's Mike Myers.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi.

[Ally Navarro]

And the three of us are in the room, and I just have to, like, freestyle dance in front of them. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is so crazy. And they're like, okay, great, we'll see you tomorrow. I was like, oh, God. All right, I will see you tomorrow. So. And then that became such a huge hit. But you just.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Ally Navarro]

You just never know, right? It's so crazy. I mean, you got like. Can I ask you guys a question?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, sure.

[Ally Navarro]

So, like, the pilot episode, like, what. What was the vibes like? Like, did you.

[Will Friedle]

Ryder was the only one on it. Ryder was the only one on the podcast. Will wasn't there, but I had two.

[Ryder Strong]

Will replaced someone.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I only had two. Lines. So I was like, this is. You know, this is never gonna happen. Who cares? Even if it does get picked up, I'll be such a small part. It won't. It won't have any effect on my life.

[Will Friedle]

And then there was a different older brother. Yeah, there was a different older brother, a different dad, and Topanga wasn't even.

[Ryder Strong]

And I didn't even exist. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So, yeah, totally different.

[Ally Navarro]

And then the phenomenon that it became like, that is so awesome.

[Will Friedle]

It was cool. Yeah. Came out of nowhere, that's for sure. I still would rather have been in the Britney Spears video.

[Ally Navarro]

Oh, come on, Will.

[Ryder Strong]

You would not you.

[Will Friedle]

I would have killed it in a Britney Spears video.

[Danielle Fishel]

Will you would.

[Ryder Strong]

Funniest person you'll ever meet has lots of talents. Dancing is not in the top 10.

[Unknown]

You don't know that.

[Will Friedle]

You've never seen me bust a move. She's right. I can't dance at all. It's not my thing.

[Ryder Strong]

I love him, and I would want him to dance for fun, but I would not say you should go audition for anything that requires dance.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, exactly. No, that's very true.

[Ally Navarro]

And take a film crew.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. The dance world was not upset. Yeah, seriously, Dance World was not upset that I chose acting. Let's put it down. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Was Nobody's angel the name from the very beginning, and who came up with the name?

[Danielle Fishel]

Actually, some Stacy kind of came up with the name. We didn't really have a set name, and we were just kind of all talking and just kind of, you know, like in between takes and coming up with, like, you know, the vision of what. What we're going to be and the hopes and the dreams. And somebody was saying something. She's like, girl, you're nobody's Angel. And we're like, okay, that's it. And so. So, yeah, so we. That.

[Ryder Strong]

That.

[Danielle Fishel]

That became the thing, and Nobody's Angels stuck. And it fits us. It fits us.

[Will Friedle]

Do you remember any other possible names for the band?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, God, no. I remember, like, songs that never even made the album. Like something called out the Back Door. And, oh, my God, they're just like, yeah, out the Back Door.

[Will Friedle]

I'm amazed that didn't make the album.

[Unknown]

Hollywood wasn't clamoring for that. That's funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

But, yeah, no, I don't remember if there was other names that we were considering that was just, like, the one. And it was sassy and it was sweet, and it just kind of. Kind of gelled, you know, like, you kind of know when that's, like, the Home run.

[Ryder Strong]

It's the perfect amount of edge for Hollywood.

[Danielle Fishel]

For Hollywood Records. Yeah, exactly. Disney. So everything was like, you know, you had to be. You can't be too edgy. You have to be just, you know, reel it back a little bit.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. How did that happen?

[Danielle Fishel]

You.

[Ryder Strong]

How did you eventually get signed to Hollywood Records?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. So we. So I think at the time, Spice Girls was like, huge, right? So everybody was looking for their own kind of Spice Girls. And so we just, you know, we had, like, strong songs, a strong package. And so we went literally from office to office. Like, we even met with Magic Johnson, had a record company at the time, and we met with him. We met with Atlantic, Warner. I just think Hollywood for us, because a lot of us came from different types of either acting, dancing, whatever, and we had this dream to also do a TV show. And so we thought, well, you know what? Disney's kind of like the big machine, you know, and so. So that, you know, in Hollywood, everything was like, so 360 and just, you know, we're like, I think this is probably like the best home. So we did have a couple other offers. We took that one because at the time we felt it was like the best one for all the things that we wanted to do. And that's kind of how we met Michael Jacobs and got involved with Boy Meets World. Because when. When they're deciding, like, what artists from the record company to put a lot of marketing dollars in, like, the CEO Michael Eisner @ the time was like, we have to do a TV show with these girls. And so we're like, yes. And so he's like, let's make it happen. So that's when I think they started shopping for. For showrunners. And that's when Michael Jacobs came around. And I actually knew Michael Jacobs because I had reoccurred on a show he produced previously called My Two Dads, with Stacey Keenan and Greg Evigan and Paul Reiser. Yeah, so. And also April Kelly, who also was a co creator of Boy Meets World. I had. She had show ran a show that I starred in called Stances of Bel Air before My Two Dads. So I know it's just like, so like when everything is supposed to be, it like kind of all aligns. So, yeah, okay, so you go with.

[Ryder Strong]

Hollywood Records because like you said, especially back in the day, everything was all 360. So you're like, like, okay, there's synergy here. We can do a TV show.

[Danielle Fishel]

We can.

[Ryder Strong]

We can do all these other things. We Want. So you. You meet Michael Jacobs. He comes in and is now going to start pitching a show with you guys. Is the show he wants to pitch about the four of you as waitresses in a diner?

[Danielle Fishel]

No.

[Ally Navarro]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

I was like, is that the show? And he's going to try to implant it into Boy Meets World. What's the. What does he pitch you for the idea for your show?

[Danielle Fishel]

I think that came about because it was almost like, let's start it here and then make it a spin off, right? Because you guys were like, the number one show, TGI Fridays. Right? So it was like, let's start it there. It was gonna be obviously music related, right. So we would obviously introduce all of our songs in kind of music video style. And it would be a little like a younger, more wholesome Sex in the City, like, with a feel of the monkeys, like the, you know, like the pounding the pavement of these girls that are trying to make it big and all the obstacles that they have to overcome to get there. So it was kind of. Kind of loosely based about what we. All the struggles that led up to getting a deal. But then even when you get a deal, there's so many other struggles of just keeping the deal. Right. So it was gonna be something like that and kind of like a dramedy, I guess you could say.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, but not in front of an audience. Not like sitcom style. It was gonna be single camera.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't think it was gonna be sitcom style. I think he was trying to, like, be edgy, too, and kind of, like, start it single camera style. Although I would have preferred. I love doing live audience. Just coming from a theater background. Yeah, sure.

[Ally Navarro]

I always rely on Allie for the facts because I don't remember anything.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Really?

[Ally Navarro]

I'm like, and Allie, what's the answer to that? The Journal. And she, like, she knows everyone's names. She's like, yeah. And I just sit there and I smile, and I'm like, yeah, tell.

[Danielle Fishel]

Really?

[Ally Navarro]

We did that?

[Ryder Strong]

That was.

[Ally Navarro]

That must have been really fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

No, I don't know what that's like to be with people that don't really remember.

[Unknown]

No, we remember what it was like.

[Ryder Strong]

Ryder and I remember everything.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, they do not.

[Ryder Strong]

Will remembers everything. Will is our alley, and my hair and I are.

[Will Friedle]

There you go.

[Ally Navarro]

I love it.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, Sarah, do you remember when you found out then that you were gonna be on Boy Meets World? Do you remember that conversation?

[Ally Navarro]

I remember our meeting with Michael Jacobs.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, how did that go? Tell us everything.

[Ally Navarro]

Oh, my God. I cried.

[Will Friedle]

That's A typical meeting with Michael, there.

[Danielle Fishel]

Was a lot going on in her life.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah. Like, he was asking us about our families because he wanted to loosely base our characters because we were going to play ourselves. Like, I was going to be Sarah, she was going to be Ally. So he wanted to know more about us personally so he could loosely base our characters on our real lives.

[Ryder Strong]

Great.

[Ally Navarro]

And for some reason, whenever I talk about my family, they're lovely, we're in good terms, but I just cry. So he was just asking me personal questions. And it just got, you know, to that place and. Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

What I remember is you were going. Your family was going through something, and he really connected because he, too, his own family was going through the same struggles and things that you were going through. And so it was like we were all crying in the office and.

[Unknown]

Great meeting.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

Let's do a sitcom. Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Let's go have fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. And that's how, like, it ended up being like, okay, Amy sue and Stacy, Sarah are gonna be sisters. And then, like, so it's like, you could see his brain work really fast at, like, you know, all the pieces of the puzzle. And we, like, had to go back and, like, re. Record the song that we performed on Boy Meets World. Cause it was like, it was already finished for the album's sake. But because. And our album hadn't come out yet, so we had. We rerecorded the song to kind of fit the fact that Sarah now and Amy sue, we're gonna have, like, this arc where it was their dad, you know, like, saying goodbye to their daughter so they can, like, pursue their goals and their dreams. And so we had to kind of change up, like, who was singing what in the song. So it was. It was really interesting to kind of, like, watch it from that particular meeting into, like, how, you know, everything evolved so well.

[Ryder Strong]

Your show must have been kind of a big priority for Michael, because Michael was developing a lot of shows in the 90s, and not all of them appeared on Boy Meets World.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So it must have been like, this was a big priority for him. What ended up. So you. Do you. So what are your memories of being on the show that week? What? Did you have a good time? Did it?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. Both of you. Sarah, you too.

[Ally Navarro]

I loved it. I loved it. I'm glad. And at that point, I think that was the first sitcom set I had been on, because I did that 70s show. I did a couple other sitcoms, but I think all of that came After. And just the structure of the sitcom world was awesome. Like, it's like a family. Like we did. I did kind of feel like I was walking into like someone's house, you know what I mean? And just to observe the way the machine worked. It's a well oiled machine. I loved that. And just the fact that I got to act, dance and sing in this show, I was like, oh my God, this is so awesome. But I think I was so wide eyed that I don't remember a lot of it in the moment going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And you know, Ali's been on probably a bajillion more sets than me at that point. So she was probably like, okay, I get this, I get this. I can. You know what I mean? And I, I was, I was pretty wide eyed for sure.

[Ryder Strong]

And so do you remember, was the. Did you guys already have a dance to it choreographed before you arrived or did you have a choreographer with you on set who helped you develop it?

[Ally Navarro]

Casey and I choreographed it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. You guys. I think you guys did. I think. Oh my God. Who was Madonna? Jamie King. Jamie King, Yeah. And so it was already choreographed because we had spent all summer going and doing like Radio Disney premieres in the park kind of thing. So we were doing a Radio Disney tour. So we had a dance. So we had. So yeah, so we just had a refine it and retool it because that little tiny stage was so little. And so we had to be like, okay, let's change it here and do all this little, you know, adjusting.

[Ally Navarro]

You didn't remember any of that?

[Danielle Fishel]

Great.

[Ally Navarro]

We readjusted it.

[Danielle Fishel]

There you go. Everybody needs a will in an alley.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Did you guys watch the episode then when it aired? What did you ever, like a premiere party? Was it a big deal?

[Danielle Fishel]

We all went to Andrew and Aaron's house and we had popcorn. We invited our friends. It was like. I think it was. There wasn't TiVo at the time, so it was like VCRs. Yeah, no, we did have a premiere, like at Andrew and Aaron's house. They were the production people. And we invited everybody we knew and. And we like had popcorn, we had the whole thing. And we didn't have TiVo back then, so it was like every time somebody's name came in, we were trying to like take like pictures like with disposable cameras or digital cameras at the time.

[Ryder Strong]

So funny.

[Danielle Fishel]

We were trying to rewind like so to see all the credits after the show, I think we probably sat and watched it like four times.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. And then what happens after the show? The show airs. What happens to the Nobody's Angel TV show?

[Ally Navarro]

I do remember this.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, you remember this part. So that's the trauma.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. So, you know, without like being a five hour podcast, there's a lot of things that also we didn't know. And I think once we did find out, we started taking charge in our own careers and really like being there to make decisions for us without people making decisions for us. So the main reason why the show, our show didn't move forward with Michael Jacobs is literally over greed and people wanting power within our own production company, wanting to be the co showrunner or the this. And they had no experience in that or a resume to back it, but they wanted it. So it was just like constant fighting and battle and. Which we didn't know anything about at all. And so we were like, when are we doing this? What is happening? Why aren't we doing this? And in the meantime, like, we were still excited because then right after your guy, after our episode on your show aired, then we were like, our album came out and we were doing all these tours, so. But we were still like, you know, is it because we're always on the road, what's happening? And one day I went into Hollywood Records and I was talking with our marketing and she was like, so upset and so angry because she's like, do you even know what happened? And I said, no, what are you talking about? And then she says, you know, so and so, and so and so just ruin this, this deal for you guys. And I was like, what? So it was one of those things. And so I literally had to call the girls and be like, this is what I just found out. What are we gonna do? And so at that moment, like, it was like, serious. And then I, like, literally that was the first time I had to fire somebody. And that was like the hardest moment because we had no idea for months that this had been happening. And so that was. That was the case.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah, it was heartbreaking to say the least.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But then.

[Danielle Fishel]

But then, like April Kelly, probably like eight months, I think we were now working on our second album. So we had toured that whole year. And then April Kelly came on board and was going to develop our second deal with ABC Family.

[Ally Navarro]

And.

[Danielle Fishel]

And then that had nothing to do with egos or power or anything. That just all had to do with ABC Family kind of like re visioning their network.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, they went through a big retooling yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. And so we fell apart of that. And so we had gotten another holding deal for that. Oh, it was like so interesting that.

[Ryder Strong]

You had two different TV show ventures, one with Michael Jacobs and then a year or more later, one with April Kelly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

What was your experience like working with April?

[Danielle Fishel]

So we did. So what we did was she was living in Tennessee and so everything was like over the phone. So how that came about was there was a guy named Eric Van Lowe who had done a lot. I can't remember all the shows that he show ran, but him and April were very good friends. And he was like, you know, I have somebody that I think could do really well with this and we can work together and read, redo this, you know, idea and have this great thing. And he said, april. I'm like, oh, my God, I know April. And so we would have to. I don't know, Sarah, if you remember this, but we had to like, write like, kind of like Michael in person, like talking about our life story and who we are. Like, we literally had to write and send. I remember faxing, like our whole life story.

[Will Friedle]

Modern technology.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, yeah, the fax machine. So. And then they were doing and planning that and we met with our president of a record company. Bob Cavallo would take us to all these meetings. And again, it wasn't. Now this had nothing to do, like I mentioned, with the ego. It just was just bad timing.

[Ryder Strong]

So do you remember what the idea for that show was?

[Danielle Fishel]

It was going to be kind of a little bit similar, but this was going to be. Because it was ABC Family, they didn't want it so. Too edgy. So it was going to be more. More light hearted, more like the Monkeys. Another thing that also kind of. I think we met some resistance with just with like the network stuff. Is then, at that time now making of the band for girl bands and boy bands were becoming a thing. And so it was like, do we spend the money on this? Do we do like a, you know, like, like. And we were like, no, we don't want to do reality. We are real performers, you know. So, yeah, so it was a little bit of everything, you know, so it was just timing. It was just timing when it came to that.

[Ryder Strong]

So you were prepping, you said, for your second album. So during all this time, like say from. You were on our show, where did you. It aired in 99. Did we worry. Was it already. Was it. Were we shooting it in 98, though? It was like end of 98, early 99. And now you're in the early aughts. And you're prepping for your second album. This is a very, like, in the weeds question. But you're signed to Hollywood. You've only had one album come out at this time. Are you making a living at this point? Are you. Are you getting paid well to be touring? How are you making a living?

[Danielle Fishel]

That's a great question. And everybody thought we were probably like, oh. Because, you know, they see you on tv, so they're like, oh, you guys are millionaires.

[Ryder Strong]

Famous and rich. Famous and rich. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, we were not making. So I will say, in the record industry, there's no rules. It's like, you know, the wild, wild west, Right? So that's how a lot of artists, you know, they kind of get screwed a little until they kind of learn the business and put their foot down. Right? So. So we do get an advance. So you get a big advance that you split amongst four people, and then it's enough to, I guess, to live off of for the time that you're doing the album. But then you're on the road and you're making, literally, per diem. And sometimes your dancers are making more than the actual artist. And so it is so sad that we would be, like, at any venue if our writer had food. We're like, like, grab that food. Take it onto the bus.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? Because we don't.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, because. And then I remember, like, anytime radio reps would take us out for dinner, we were, like, hungry. We're like, yes, we're taking this, this and this. Because it's just. It's not what people think. And then we did get. Because it's through, you know, Screen Actors Guild or sag. And after we do get a TV holding deal. So we did get a deal, which was very nice. A lot of recording artists don't even get that because they don't have that TV show element, you know, behind it. So then we got, obviously, another, you know. So basically, when you're touring, you have to think of it as just promotion. So it's like you are busting your butt from, like, sunup till, like, midnight. Because we would do Good Morning, you know, whatever town you're in, to school shows, then to do a radio show at noon, then to do mall tours, then to do another radio show, and then to do clubs, club tours. Because we also had, like, a lot of our songs were remixed for clubs. So it's like that every single day. So you're like, really? You know, like, being in the recording artist isn't for the week you have to like, just like, you know, and you can't be tired. You just got it like, go, go, go, go, go. But it was, you know, something we all loved, we all wanted. And again, we were able to pay our bills. But then things like that people don't realize is the record company has a publicist, but that publicist is for everybody. Right? So if you really want dedication just to you, you have to have an outside publicist. So again, the money that we would make that money now, like, we have to get a publicist and we have to split it amongst four people. And so we were always praying for like Polaroid sponsoring us or just the little things that people. Because then that we would get money from that too. We did a lot of soundtracks, so like, we did like the Pokemon movie and Princess Diaries and all this stuff. So that obviously was, you know, financially helpful. Yeah. But we haven't seen any royalties from any of the stuff that we're on.

[Will Friedle]

Nothing. You didn't get an 8 cent check from Boy Meets World? Nothing.

[Ryder Strong]

No.

[Danielle Fishel]

No residuals. Yes. We're talking royalties from music songs. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

So those types of things, like, I think like, maybe as an advocate, like those things have to be, like, dealt with and worked on, which they are now. Like now you can, you know, I don't know how retroactive they can be, but yeah, it's. It's when people see you on tv, they have this image.

[Will Friedle]

So wait, are your reps. Are you. Were your original reps or are they getting paid? Somebody's gotta be making money from your music. Right? So they.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

It's just not you who put in the actual work or. Yikes.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, wow.

[Will Friedle]

Awful.

[Danielle Fishel]

So even though they got fired, they probably still make some. Something still.

[Will Friedle]

That sucks.

[Ryder Strong]

Unbelievable.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah. I remember when we were done with the first album and we had a bit of a lull and I started auditioning again. I was at a point where I was not a drinker at all, but I was like, okay, what job can I get where I can make a lot of money in the evenings? I was like, I'm gonna do bartending. So I like, I had a buddy come over, I was like, teach me the drinks. And I was like, studying to like, learn whatever. And then I ended up booking the Pepsi commercials with Brittany. So I was like, thank God.

[Ryder Strong]

Massive national commercial.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah. I was so thankful. And back then a national commercial was.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, like, they were incredible. Everybody. Everybody wanted a national commercial.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, everybody.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So when did you guys then also start experiencing some group Member changeovers. Like, you know, that definitely used to happen with pop bands. When did that start?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, we're going to be honest here. So we were on tour. I think we were doing a radio tour with Mandy Moore, I can't remember, Debbie Gibson and other people. And I believe we were in New York area. Like New York or Vermont, I can't remember. And there was. There was. There was a blow up and there. And I honestly don't even remember what it was over. And then the next thing you know, like, the record company is like telling somebody, you're out, you're done.

[Ryder Strong]

Was the blow up with the record company?

[Unknown]

No, just between the four of you.

[Danielle Fishel]

We probably should have had cameras following us at that time.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It would have been a great reality show.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, geez. Yeah. And so we. I actually don't even think we did that show that day. We had done soundcheck, but I don't recall us doing a show show that day. I think we all flew home. And then the oddest thing is we were doing. We had a new song, a new soundtrack that we were doing for 102 Dalmatians. And we recorded it and everything happened so fast. So, like, we recorded it, we filmed it for Disney because they were going to do like this massive, you know, push. And it was like the theme song or the title and song or something. And. And then literally it was just the three of us and we were, you know, filming and then we all said goodbye to each other and that was the last time we saw Amy sue. And we were like. And then we found out that she just left and she just. I think. What. A lot of times the business part of it, like, everybody wanted to do it because I love singing, I love this. But when they understand that it's so much more a business and there's all this other stuff that you can't really control, then people are like, you know what? This isn't for me. So, like, I then had to. I picked up the phone and I called, like, a really good friend of mine. And you might. You guys might know her. Jenny Kwan. Who?

[Will Friedle]

Sure.

[Danielle Fishel]

From California Dream and her. And I. And she actually, I called her to replace me from the Zoom girl group.

[Ryder Strong]

So she's your go to.

[Will Friedle]

I was gonna say, didn't you have three other girl groups that you could just like, well, now I'll go to this one. Now I gotta hop into the next girl group.

[Ally Navarro]

Totally.

[Danielle Fishel]

So I called Jenny and I was like, hey, what do you. What are you doing? And she was like, Oh, I would love to do this. So she came on board, and then my friend Ty, her and I had known each other since we were like eight or nine, and. And her aunt and I were really good friends. Her aunt wrote Just Wait a While for Janet Jackson. And so she was like, really into, like, you know, like the music scene and everything. And so she was like, I don't know if I want to do a girl group. I'm like, oh, my God, come on, let's just do it. And then. So they were our two new members. And then I had to do some begging to Bob Cavallo, and I was just like, look, look. Destiny's Child just lost some members. Like, we're gonna be just fine. We're gonna be stronger than ever. So he just was like, okay, I'm gonna. You know, he's like, don't disappoint. And then thankfully, they put some budgets into doing music for the second album. And we got to, like, produce and be writers this time on the song and. Or on. On the album. And we were able to now, like, have a say and make decisions, you know, with the producers that we wanted to work with, the songwriters we wanted to kind of co. Collaborate with. So it was a whole different experience and that. And then again, the other TV holding deal. So. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So I'm sorry, Amy sue just kind of just disappeared. I mean, was there just. Did she talk to you guys or did she just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Just.

[Will Friedle]

That was it. She was just gone. She just bounced.

[Danielle Fishel]

Sarah, do you recall? I mean, like, I remember hugging her and she said bye, and then she left. And then, I mean, obviously we've talked since, but it was like literally 20 years later. Like, it was almost. Was right before the pandemic, there was a couple people that were doing like 20 year celebrations. And so somebody's like, well, why doesn't nobody. Nobody's angel do a 20 year celebration? Like, well, a lot of us have haven't seen each other. We all live all over the map. And so I called everybody and they're like, okay, this is interesting. And so since. And we were. We were. We had hopes of doing a 20 year, you know, reunion celebration of some kind. But then the pandemic hit and then this just kind of fizzled away. Yeah.

[Ally Navarro]

And I could see Amy Sue. Me and my family went down to Florida for a vacation in Orlando, and that's where she lives. So it was probably about 10 years ago now. I went down and I visited her there. And things are good. And, you know, I don't know if we'll ever really talk about it, you know, because I don't know that it'll be worth it really.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Ally Navarro]

I think we've all kind of come to terms with what happened and are at peace with it, so. Yeah, it was unfortunate for sure. And it kind of felt like a whirlwind, so.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right.

[Ally Navarro]

I'm sure we all have our own versions of what happened. And it was, you know, different for all four of us as far as what the experience was. But overall, like, definite fond memories of the whole experience and learned a ton.

[Ryder Strong]

A lot.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So many people, like we mentioned, so many people just think if they see you enough, if they. If you're doing songs for movies and TV shows and I've seen you on tv, that's it, you've made it. You must be very rich. And they don't understand the grind and how hard that business side of it is. I mean, even just for people to hear what your day to day is like, you're talking about doing good morning, whatever city you're in. You also want to be hair and makeup ready. You need to be up ahead of time to look awake and to have your makeup on and to, you know, you have to be able to present. Exactly. And to sing and to warm up your voice and to be personable and to put a smile on. And you're doing that then club tour, like, maybe if you're lucky, you get to take a nap somewhere in that day. But otherwise you're going from say 4:30 in the morning until 1 or 2am Right.

[Unknown]

Also, this is a crazy time in the music industry too. This is like the last gasp of the old model. Like the late 90s, early aughts are like, everyone's starting to download music. It's like the model of like, get a record deal, then you're set, is not gonna work anymore. And you guys were living through that. And no one knew what the new rules were gonna be. It turns out no one makes money in music anymore. But you know by now. But like for that period, that's like such a weird time of transition. Like I remember friends in the music. It was like, oh, if I just get a record deal. But then people would get record deals like you guys. And it was like, well, that doesn't guarantee you the next 10 years of a steady job. Like, no, that's just another hustle for the next thing. And in fact, sometimes people would own they would owe the record company money.

[Will Friedle]

Money.

[Unknown]

At the end that situation, it was like, oh my God. Like, nobod knew the rules anymore. It was really.

[Will Friedle]

There was also, in the early aughts, there's starting to be a backlash against the girl and boy groups too, where it was kind of like, like, oh, that's not cool anymore to be in a boy. A boy band or a girl group. And it wasn't until really One Direction came out again that there was. It kind of exploded again. So it's like the double whammy. And you're doing all of this on whatever food you could put in your pockets from the writer. I mean, it's like, oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

I mean, like, we want Fig Newtons. We want Frosted Mini Wheats. We want everything that we would eat.

[Ryder Strong]

You're like, this is an interesting writer. You're. These are the meals. We don't get snacks and meals.

[Unknown]

Seriously.

[Will Friedle]

We'd like 2% milk on our rider, please. Like, wait, what? Oh, my God. Yeah. The music industry, it's just. It's so different and so much, so much different than if you think about.

[Danielle Fishel]

When we came out, we were still selling CDs at 20 bucks a pop. Right. And now it's like $10. And then you're right, the download came, and the record companies couldn't even keep up with how fast technology was happening. Like, they probably. Probably just kept up. Like, they probably just figured it out maybe 10 years ago.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

And. And not even that. Right. That's. It's still evolving. Now you have Tick Tock, and now you become famous on Tick Tock. You know, it's like always evolving. You don't make money from songwriting anymore. You make money as a touring artist.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

That is. Yes, that.

[Unknown]

Which is the opposite of what you said earlier, which is back then, you. The touring was the loss leader for, you know, making record sales.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Now it's completely inverted.

[Ryder Strong]

And now.

[Danielle Fishel]

And now it's. You want to be independent, right. You want to be in charge. And thankfully, I learned so much because I was that kid, because I was like. I'm like, I didn't go to college. This was my life. I literally spent every day that we weren't on the road at the record company, watching everybody do their job, asking so many questions. And I remember Diana Cass, who's like a brilliant marketing. She ended up going to and working for Lady Gaga. She was the one. Like you guys said, it's like when you get a deal, people go, oh, I'm gonna be superstar famous now and super rich. No, she's like, it's just like getting an agent. You Also still have to continue to do the work, so. Yeah, so. Yeah. So we learned so much. So much.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

And all of this while waitressing in a small diner cafe an hour outside of Philadelphia to tell you whether or.

[Ryder Strong]

Not it was worth it.

[Will Friedle]

An hour outside of Philadelphia and yet you've never known, like, the big city, like, whatever it was, so.

[Unknown]

Oh, man, that's great.

[Ryder Strong]

Sarah, you would. You would go on to become a very successful actor. You'd appear in tons of stuff, including Studio 60 on the Sunset, Street Secrets on Maple Street, CSI New York. And now, as we mentioned, you live with your beautiful family in Canada. You're still acting and teaching dance. Would you be okay if your kids wanted to get into the business? You mentioned your son had a callback, so I'm assuming he's an actor.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah, he is an actor. It's a hobby right now. He's not diving into it with two speaks. We are quite lucky with where we live. We're really close to Vancouver and a lot of the film industry from Vancouver comes. Comes to our valley, which is called the Okanagan Valley. So a lot of the work that I do is right here in my backyard. If we need to go to Vancouver, then we. We're close enough. I wouldn't discourage it at all. It kind of fell into both of our laps up here. Like, when I moved up up here, I didn't really think that I would continue, to be honest. I had just gotten married and it wasn't until after I had three kids. Kids that my manager in LA was like, hey, would you ever wanna. Because she was calling me to, like, sign off on something and she's like, there's so much work up there. I'm like, okay. Like, I took a while because I was like, do I want to? Because there's. So it's not just saying yes or no. It's like, as you guys know, there's so many layers to it, right?

[Will Friedle]

Oh, yeah.

[Ally Navarro]

So I was like, you know what? Why not? Like, I have my. And I. I'm so thankful to have my family so that it's not my main focus.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Ally Navarro]

You know what I mean? That, like, comes to me when it's supposed to come to me. I enjoy doing it. I'm working with awesome people. I love my reps. And. And yeah, it fell into Gunner's lap. Kind of like, my agent was like, hey, they're looking for hockey players. Because all my boys are hockey players.

[Ryder Strong]

Do you have three sons?

[Ally Navarro]

You do?

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I have two. I have Two sons and writer has a son. Indie. We're just a boy. Family.

[Will Friedle]

I'm one of three boys. I'm one of three boys.

[Ally Navarro]

Are you. Are you the middle?

[Will Friedle]

No, I'm the youngest. I'm the baby. I'm the best one.

[Ryder Strong]

Spoken like a true baby, of course. Totally.

[Ally Navarro]

Yeah. But, yeah, he was like. He auditioned, and he ended up getting the job. And after the experience, I was like, do you want to do this again? And actually, my youngest and my middle got a part in the commercial. My youngest was like, I'm done. That was the worst.

[Ryder Strong]

I never want to do it again.

[Ally Navarro]

Like, great.

[Ryder Strong]

Awesome.

[Ally Navarro]

At least, you know, you know, Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Good to know either way.

[Ally Navarro]

Totally. And Gun was like, yeah, totally. I'd be up for it. So, yeah, he's done a few things, and we went down to Argentina to shoot something for him this year, which was really fun. So, yeah. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's. It's fun. And, yeah, we're having a good time with it, but it's nothing. Yeah, it's not his main focus, which I'm happy about.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And, Allie, I want you to talk to us about your alter ego, Twinkle time, please. How did that come about? And tell us everything.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my God. Okay, so I can't believe this year will be 15 years that I've been my alter ego. Twinkle time. Never, obviously, like, pop music and being, you know, in the music industry was always my thing. After Nobody's Angel, I went back into auditioning and doing guests and episodic stuff, and then a lot of tours in between, but I still wanted to do music. And I had this crazy dream, and I told my husband, don't think I'm crazy, but I had this dream that I was performing in front of kids, and at the time, one of my side hustles, I was teaching kids musical theater, singing, the whole thing, like, all over SoCal. And I loved it. And so I said I wasn't in my dream. I wasn't myself. He's like, what are you talking about, alter ego? And he's like, you're crazy. And so I just started writing the songs with my writing mentor, and then all of a sudden, I had, like, enough to have an album, but then I just sat back and like, what do I do from here? Like, and because also coming from a musical theater background, I'm like, well, maybe I put it into, like, a musical. And so that's exactly what I did. I put it into musical format first, and then I, you know, put it up In a, like, little 99 seat theater in North Hollywood. And we did two shows because I invited everybody and everybody came and bought tickets. I was like, oh, my God. So now I had footage. So then I was like, okay, now what do I do from here? And I'm like, okay, let me just start pitching it. So I started calling every theater, every, you know, venue that had anything to do with family. And then one person was like, oh, my God, are you Ali from Nobody's Angel? And I was like, yes. Oh my God. I used to listen to you guys. And she was like, the marketing at all Caruso properties, like the Grove Americana, all this stuff in la. And she's like, we do a whole kids series, but it can't be a musical. We don't have a budget for that. Can you scale it down and make it like, you know, a concert? And I was like, heck, yeah, that's easy. And from there it took off and like, literally I was. Somebody had came and done like a whole thing at the Americana. Like, you know, prices were going up at Disney and all this stuff, and they're like, oh, if you don't have, you know, the money, this is all the cool things that you can do with your family. Take your kids, it's free. And you get this amazing entertainment. So I did some little thing on Fox la and then somebody from Nobody's angel days called me and was like, is this Ali from Nobody's Angel? And he had a record company that was distributed through Warner Music. And so I went in again, no upfront money, but at the time I was just putting all my money into developing this. And so I was just like, well, if they're going to print up my, my, my albums, then of course I'm gonna say yes. So my first album came out in 2000, 2010 and under Warner Music Group, but then they went through some changes. And so then I've been now releasing and touring, like, the country, you know, headlining at, you know, theaters and state fairs as like an artist for kids and families. So it's like pop rock, really cool music with just positive lyrical content. I think people have said something like, Lady Gaga meets Kiss Band for Kids. Kind of how people like, that's cool. Yeah. And I'm gonna be releasing my fifth album on August 22nd. How exciting. Yeah. So it's been, again, all the stuff that I learned from Nobody's Angel, I've been able to apply to what I do now because I do book my own shows, I do promote everything myself. I, you know, I market I it's like I wear all the hats but I wouldn't have known what to do had I not had that experience.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I mean just if you work in the entertainment industry with as quickly as it evolves, we are nothing if not incredible hustlers. If you want to stay in it, you have to, you have to adapt, you have to adjust dust. You have to learn something new. You have to, you know, if you want to stay in it, you're going to have to change up the way you've always done it. And every time you learn something new, you're like, great. I now I'm, now I'm going to be able to use this skill set here. You'll continue to use it forever just in new and innovative ways.

[Danielle Fishel]

So.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, really impressive and really fun to talk to you both. I my last question is, looking back now, nearly, almost 30 years later, what do you, what do you think and what do you feel when you think about that week or watch that episode of Boy Meets World?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, do I go first or. Sarah, you want to go?

[Ally Navarro]

Well, like mine's a short answer honestly. That week propelled my acting career. I enjoyed it so much and I had taken a couple classes before that but it wasn't my main focus. And after that week I had to so much fun that and just found out so much more about myself that I was like, I want to dive into this. So I started going to Leslie Khan, I went to Sandy Marshall, I studied with John Rosenfeld. Like I really dove into it and that's honestly what propelled my passion for acting.

[Ryder Strong]

Wow. So there's like a before Boy Meets world of your life and then there's an after and Boy Meets World was like a turning point.

[Unknown]

That's cool.

[Ally Navarro]

It really was. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

That's so cool. What about you, Ali?

[Danielle Fishel]

For me it brings so many wonderful happy memories because it was a dream we all had as a unit and we achieved it. So whether or not the TV show happened, we did your TV show.

[Ryder Strong]

I love that. Thank you both so much for joining us. Us, we wish you so much luck and success with everything you do in the future. This was so much fun to have you on. Thank you both for joining us.

[Unknown]

Great to see you guys.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, it's good to see you both. Let's do it again. You know, listen, when you were talking about doing a 20 year reunion, I was like, you know, guys, 25, 30 years isn't that far.

[Ally Navarro]

You know, we have everybody on do it here. Let's do it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, let's Go back to that diner.

[Ryder Strong]

We're gonna. We might do an end to back Bevix. Pop up. Maybe we're gonna need a musical performance.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, we're there.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Call Amy Sue.

[Ryder Strong]

See if Amy sue will come out from Florida.

[Danielle Fishel]

Get Stacy. All right.

[Ryder Strong]

Thank you, ladies.

[Unknown]

Have a good one.

[Ally Navarro]

See you guys. Thanks for having us.

[Ryder Strong]

I think it's so interesting how much the music industry is like, it's so funny. We rarely hear people talk about, well, in acting, you're really well protected in the music industry, you. No, it's like most of the time, people are like, well, in acting, they just. They took so advantage of you. But here's the terrifying music industry.

[Unknown]

The way is that the music industry seems to be about 10, 15 years ahead of, like, what happens to the music industry happens to the film and TV industry. And I think that's what's happening right now. So I feel those protections going away. Do you know what I mean? Like, the idea that you can be on a TV show and make money in residuals is gone now because streamers don't. That doesn't exist. So for writers, directors, actors, the entire system is now gone. So we're at that point where even having a union, it doesn't matter. How do you monetize it? Because once we accepted that we all want our music for free or for a subscription service for a monthly fee, the artists can't make it anymore. And film and television is even more expensive to produce. So how is that gonna happen?

[Will Friedle]

I know, I know. I talked to an agent friend of mine who literally said. He goes, oh, the day of the journeyman actor, where you can make a decent living and raise a family, and all you do is you just guest star and stuff. It's like, we don't even hire those people anymore.

[Unknown]

No.

[Will Friedle]

He goes. We don't even rep them. He goes, because what you're going to. They're going to get US$80 a week, something like that. He goes, we don't. We don't need it. And so that whole section of acting.

[Unknown]

The economic model disappearing, is completely upside down. I don't know how it's sustainable for.

[Will Friedle]

It is. And the. And the music industry is worse. It's like Thunderdome. I mean, it really. The idea that you can still go listen to Nobody's Angels music on all these movies and all this stuff in streaming and they don't see a dime of it, but the. The people they had to fire who were screwing them over still get that money is so insane. Yeah, it's Ugh.

[Unknown]

Yeah. The rules are always changing. I feel like, you know, you start your career in entertainment, and so much of it is like, you know, everybody comes into it. You come in with an artistic passion, right? I can sing, I can dance, I can act. And then you're like, you have to learn the rules. So you try and find a mentor or an agent or a manager or a producer or somebody who will teach you the rules. And then within moments, you realize there are no rules, and you actually just have to learn the old rules in order to figure out how to break them. And it's. You know, and you. The sooner you make that transition from, like, okay, I'm confident enough in understanding how things are working at this second that now I need to go beyond them and break them. That's the only way you make it in entertainment. It's. It's a very, very. It's. You know, we were children, so we learned the rules by absorbing it, by being in it. But, like, you know, think about for our parents trying to play catch up to, like, what. What it means to have an agent, to do this, to have a good contract. Like, oh, my God, it's terrifying. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So scary. Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod meets World show. You can send us your emails. Pod meets worldshowmail.com and we've got merch.

[Will Friedle]

I am auditioning for my new boy band. I would like some other members to join me because if it's just me, then it's not really a band.

[Unknown]

Everybody's Devil. Everybody's Devil. We're in.

[Will Friedle]

Let's go. Everybody's Devil. Great idea.

[Ryder Strong]

I'll be your manager. Great.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

I'll start booking. I'll start booking you. I'll start booking you right now.

[Will Friedle]

We should maybe have a song.

[Ryder Strong]

No, no. I'm gonna talk about.

[Will Friedle]

There's no rules, no songs, no dance.

[Unknown]

We're the band that has no songs. But we still do mall tours.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. I love it. Oh, Everybody's Devil. It's such a good title too.

[Danielle Fishel]

So good.

[Ally Navarro]

It's so good.

[Will Friedle]

All right, it's our band. Who else are we getting? We get. We get. We got to get at least a third person and then. But then he can actually sing and dance.

[Unknown]

Okay, no, maybe it's just the three of us and yells at the center, and you and I are the two devils. Or we're the devils on our shoulder. So we're like two different devils and we argue. You know he used to be the angel and the devil, but instead it's just two devils. Wow, that's great.

[Ryder Strong]

We got a great image.

[Unknown]

You just wear your. Like, what's the. The wrestling? No, the house in Kiss makeup, Danielle in the middle and we'll be the devils on either side of you. None of us sing. We've got a band. Let's go.

[Will Friedle]

This is amazing. I love this artwork. Start booking it immediately.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, writer, send us out.

[Unknown]

We love you all. Pod Dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Wilfred L And Ryder Strong, executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Subaksh, producer Matty Moore, engineer and Boy Meets world superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram odmeatsworld show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast.