Pod Meets Twirl'd: Survivor 5005

Summary

Pod Meets Twirl’d: Survivor 5005 – Episode Recap

Podcast: Pod Meets World
Episode: Survivor 5005
Release Date: March 27, 2026
Hosts: Will Friedle and Rider Strong
Summary compiled from core content; advertisements and non-content segments omitted.

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Overview

In this special episode, Will Friedle and Rider Strong dig into episode five of Survivor Season 50—a milestone “all-winners” season. The duo contrasts their reality TV tastes and debates the evolving nature of Survivor, centering on authenticity versus gameplay, production choices, and fandom. They offer a detailed recap of the episode's two-sided elimination, analyze shifting alliances, and unpack the emotions and strategies of returning contestants. Throughout, their banter, self-deprecating humor, and friendship bring the reality TV world to life for listeners—especially those who haven’t tuned in to the current season.

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Key Episode Themes & Discussions

1. Survivor vs. Other Reality Formats

Timestamps: 02:38–13:18

• Will admits he’s not a Survivor fan, finding its gameplay repetitive and over-serious, criticizing the lack of visible “survival” elements:

  “It is a high school cafeteria, which is the worst place in the world put on an island. That’s all it is.” —Will (04:13)

• Rider, a longtime Survivor viewer, defends its earnest stakes and social experiment roots, while acknowledging Will’s critiques about the game's evolution.
• The hosts compare Survivor with The Traitors, with Will preferring the playful, self-aware gamification of the latter, while Rider appreciates Survivor's raw psychological dimensions.

  “What we’re describing is the same thing. Like, we’re watching reality show people compete with one another and form alliances or trust one another or not.” —Rider (23:29)

2. Production Choices and Fan Orientation

Timestamps: 05:14–16:32

• Will laments that Survivor's current season is “for insiders,” making it unwelcoming for newcomers.

  “It’s a show made for people that are already fans of this show. It’s all inside baseball.” —Will (21:34)

• The conversation covers how editing now privileges returning viewers, downplaying the challenges and deprival aspects in favor of strategic gameplay.
• Rider suggests the meta-focus is by design, referencing “for the fans, by the fans,” but concedes that production could better balance context for casual audiences.
• Will and Rider both wish for more backstory, basic survival scenes, and an introductory primer for non-superfans.

3. Psychological Realities & Social Pain

Timestamps: 29:19–31:49

• The hosts reflect on how Survivor can trigger uncomfortable memories of exclusion and betrayal from childhood and adolescence.

  “Maybe it’s the agita I’m feeling—that it brings me back to this.” —Will (29:26)

• They note the difference in emotional weight between shows where contestants “wink” at the process versus those where betrayals feel personal and lasting.

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Survivor 5005: Episode Five Recap

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Christian Takes the Blame

  “That’s the kind of honor and integrity that, like, Coach is always talking about, that you don’t actually see him do. Whereas, like, in this case, Christian was like, ‘Hey, I did. I had this plan. I backstabbed you. Don’t blame the girls.‘ I thought that was super admirable.” —Rider (28:14)

• Ozzy’s Emotional Journey

  “[Ozzy] meditated in the morning, like, trying to be the bigger man... but you gotta play.” —Rider (28:35)

[Recap Segment Begins – 27:57]

Camp Drama and Shifting Allegiances (28:14–39:19)

• Ozzy is furious at being left out of an alliance plan; Christian takes responsibility and earns some audience respect.
• The psychological fallout (feeling excluded, paranoia) leads to key emotional beats.
  • Will: “It brings me back to times in middle school… where you find out there’s a party and your friends were there and weren’t invited.” (29:26)
• At Sila, an alliance crumbles as Charlie’s paranoia about Rizzo drives a wedge, sparking strategic shifts.
• Over at Callow, “Coach” doles out nicknames (“Tidewalker”, “Oakbound Warrior”), setting off cult-leader vibes and audience eye-rolls.

  “It’s so lame when you give yourself a nickname... Let other people give you nicknames, dude.” —Will (32:27, 34:14)

Smart Play and Misplay

• Aubrey, typically an underdog, starts strategizing hard as the “out” girl.
• Rizzo’s braggadocio and gameplay reference past seasons, dividing the tribe.
• Notable memorable quote:

  “He’s just so high on his own supply from season 49.” —Rider (38:13)

• Will’s “old bull/young bull” joke highlights generational/temperament divides in Survivor gameplay. (38:43)

Challenge Segment (39:35–41:24)

• Classic physically grueling challenge involving swimming, untying, and grappling hooks.
• Tiff impresses with a rope-whip technique, catching up her team and winning Jeff Probst’s praise:

  “[Jeff] is like, ‘Never seen that in Survivor.’” —Rider (40:47)

• Will and Rider praise the design of challenges that require various skill sets beyond brute strength.

Post-Challenge & Tribal Councils (41:24–59:06)

• Double elimination is revealed; Sila and Vaatu must both vote someone out.
• Rizzo forms a secret alliance (Rizzo, Camilla, Dee, Cirie).
• Will critiques the missed storytelling opportunity by not giving viewers more background or moments of deprivation—arguing it blunts investment in the contestants.
• Strategic lies—Charlie’s unnecessary fibs and Rizzo’s idol reveal—backfire, setting off new power dynamics.
• At Tribal, hosts praise Jeff Probst’s mastery, suggesting he must have intel (and stamina) to orchestrate so well.

Tribal Results (Semantic summary, [51:05–59:48])

• Angelina is voted out at one tribal—her edit regarded as minimal; a point of critique about underdeveloped secondary characters.
• Dramatic second tribal between Rizzo and Charlie:

  “Second tribal just comes down to this battle between Rizzo and Charlie… Charlie getting voted out. I was surprised.” —Rider (57:46)

• The hosts lampoon tribal council’s pageantry and music cues, likening it to waiting in line at Disney’s Indiana Jones ride—and riff on Survivor’s legacy of “generic tribal” décor and sound.

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Survivor as TV: Structural Critiques

Timestamps: 59:48–62:29

• Will reiterates a desire for more behind-the-scenes, deprivation, and survival context—suggesting the lack dampens investment for new viewers.
• Rider caps the episode by hoping beloved special segments return:
  • Survivor Auction: Where starving players bid for food or surprises.
  • Family Visit: Contestants are reunited with loved ones as part of game rewards.

  “I think that would help you understand how severe it is for them. Those are like two of my favorite things… I really hope they do that this season.” —Rider (61:50)

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Bonus: "Will's History of Survival" Segment

• Will shares the story of Vesna Vulović, a Serbian flight attendant who survived a 33,000 foot fall in a plane crash—the highest ever survived without a parachute (62:30–66:42).

  “She fell 6.31 miles and survived. Crazy.” —Will (66:42)

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Notable Quotes Snapshot

• “If you’re gonna say you’ve got to accept that they’re deprived, but we’re not gonna show you they’re deprived, then why do I care?” —Will (14:57)
• “I like when people take themselves seriously… that makes Survivor tolerable for me, whereas for you, it makes it intolerable.” —Rider (22:25)
• “You just get to see these people lose their shit over [food at Survivor Auction].” —Rider (61:14)
• “[Jeff Probst] is running this room… without any help. So even if they are telling him… he’s really good at this.” —Rider (51:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Show Format Debate: 02:38–13:18
• For Insiders/Fans Only Debate: 05:14–16:32
• Psychological Fallout/Middle School Trauma: 29:19–31:49
• Challenge Play-by-Play: 39:35–41:24
• First Tribal Council: 51:05–52:27
• Second Tribal/Disneyland Riff: 55:02–57:46
• Survivor Auction/Family Visit Hopes: 60:35–62:22
• “History of Survival” Segment: 62:30–66:42

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Tone & Style

The episode is irreverent, sometimes critical, and always personal. Will plays the frustrated outsider, Rider the seasoned guide. Their dynamic toggles between playful mockery (“I just want to shoot this guy and then myself for having listened to this guy,” Will, 32:58) and earnest TV criticism. Both push each other to question their biases, offering witty, candid reactions for new and old fans alike.

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Conclusion

This episode of Pod Meets Twirl’d offers a deep, honest, and frequently hilarious window into both the mechanics of Survivor Season 50 and the minds of two passionate pop-culturalists with differing tastes. The conversation is rich in meta-reality TV critique, memorable personality analysis, and a willingness to wrestle with what turning Survivor into a “show for the fans, by the fans” means for TV as a whole. Even listeners who haven’t seen a single episode will walk away with a vivid sense of both the show’s stakes and its odd, addictive charms.

Transcript

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[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. In your journey through Survivor, how did this episode. Did it make you feel better? Are you still not into it?

[B]

I'm still.

[A]

My God.

[B]

I don't like the show. I'm sorry. It's it's, it's literally just people sitting around lying to each other and, and having awful conversations about who to traders is.

[A]

No, with salmon locks being taken, that's all it is.

[B]

Three people lying on traitors, everyone else telling the truth. The point is to go and find the liars in this wonderful pageantry. It's so over the top and crazy. This takes itself so seriously. And it's just, it's five minutes of let's walk on the beach and, and, and, and swim in the ocean to untie knots, and then 90 minutes of them going, who should we kick off? I think we should kick this person off. I think we should kick. And then people sitting there, like, staring at the camera and the people are annoying. I like nobody. I don't like the show.

[A]

This is, this is.

[B]

I don't like the show.

[A]

This gets to the heart of, like, a major difference between you and me in that we both like a reality show where people, I think, are sort of tasked with the same thing, which is, do you trust people or do you not?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whereas I think you like a level of irony and humor and sort of like, playfulness.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I like a certain level of like, life or death stakes or earnestness.

[B]

But again, there's no life or death. Like, sue and I were watching last night and she's like, what happened to the chickens? What do they do with the chickens? Do they kill the chickens? Do they get eggs with the chickens? Yeah, they just don't know that I know they, I don't know any of that. What's going on? Do they get the chicken? Are these people eating? Are they not eating? It is a high school cafeteria, which is the worst place in the world put on an island. That's all it is. But they're.

[A]

At least they're on an island and they really are struggling. They are starving.

[B]

They don't know.

[A]

I know. You're just, you're just seeing with the way that they're editing it, I totally get that. And, but, but it's increasing the stakes for them in a way that when they are deciding whether to trust each other or not, they're literally going to eat or not. Or, you know, like, whereas, like traders. I just look at it and I'm like, well, this is just like fun. You know, mostly rich people sitting around playing like a board game for 10 days.

[B]

It's a fun game. Well, again, some people are rich, some people aren't. And survivors the same way. You know, some of these survivors and have made a ton of money being reality stars.

[A]

But the same way on Traders, you know, the stakes are so much. I don't. In Survivor, I don't.

[B]

They're not showing me any of this.

[A]

I know, but you. But they are. Like we had Sophie on the show, like she was telling me.

[B]

Right. But a good television show, I should be able to have never seen it before, come in and get what the show is. I shouldn't have to talk to somebody who's seen the other 49 episode 49 seasons to tell me this, hey, here's what they're not showing you. Here's why it's really tough. Well, then you're showing me half a story. A good show. Anybody should sit. Could be. You never saw Traitors. You sat down, you got it right away. Because every season is kind of the same format. They do this. I shouldn't get into a show where it's like I don't know what's going on. I'm just supposed to have seen all of the episodes before and that's how I'm supposed to have known what's going on. So they're going to take out the Survivor of Survivor and just make it for the people that are already fans. That's.

[A]

But see, I think what's funny is that what you're actually seeing on screen is identical. They're just in traitors. They're just in nice outfits in a nice castle, eating.

[B]

Oh, see, I disagree.

[A]

It's like literally they're like, they're like walking around like a beautiful grounds and like everyone's in crazy outfits. So it has this, like I said, this level of distance and irony to it that for you makes it more fun because it's like, like the stakes are never supposed to be high, whereas this, you're mad that the stakes are implied to be higher, but you don't get to experience those high stakes.

[B]

Well, it's gotta be one. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If it's a high stakes thing. Show me the high stakes.

[A]

But what's actually happening is identical. Like the complaint that you have for Survivor, you could apply to traitors.

[B]

No, but it's not a group of liars. But traitors is not 20 liars. They purposely pick three liars and you try to find out who they are,

[A]

decide whether they can trust each other or not.

[B]

Right, right. But it's the same. But when, when they're all at tri. I know I'm jumping ahead, but when they're all at Tribal Council later, one of the things. The Tribal Councils, by the way, if I have to hear the music in the background of these Tribal Councils one more time, I'm gonna start swinging on whoever's sitting next to me. So I feel bad. Whoever's next to me.

[A]

It's awful.

[B]

It's like, oh, my God, shut the up. So they're sitting there angry Will.

[A]

We got angry Will this morning.

[B]

Oh, God, they're sitting. Cause I'm like, this is a show made for people that are already fans of this show. It's like, that's all this is. So they even say, like, they're sitting there and they're going, oh, yeah, I know that I'm being put this. I'm here with 26amazing liars, and the first thing that goes in my head is like, how does Ryder like this? He hates lying. He hates people that lie. And now, not only that, but they're not even showing. The thing that Ryder would love is the actual survival skills. Now it's just the lying. How does Ryder still like the show? Like, I couldn't. I couldn't wrap my head around it. I don't like a lot of the people. Some of them are fine. I've connected with nobody. So again, if you don't know who these people are going in, you don't learn anything about them at all. So it's just, hey, man, I hate her. And oh, my God, I'm gonna hand you my jacket. Why?

[A]

What.

[B]

What did. Is that something I should know? Okay, well, then cut back to what happened in the last season to show me why she wanted to hand somebody her jacket. It's like, he might as well. Somebody might turn around and go to boop. But choo poop. And everybody goes, oh, my God, he didn't. And I'm going, what the. What's. What's going on? So they're literally just making this show for people who already watch this show, and that's a dumb ass way to do it.

[A]

No, I totally get your criticism. I totally get your complaints, but I think, like, the blanket thing, you could see what was going on. Like, I. That didn't need to be established. That she just was doing a nice thing. No, no, she got.

[B]

She said it was important for me to hand over my jacket. And they're like, that was a great way to end a great wraparound. They're clearly stating that this had happened in the past and somebody had handed or some. It was a callback to her season.

[A]

I didn't get that. I literally just thought it was like, nope. Oh, she's just going to be nice and. And give them something to keep them warm. Even though they voted her out, that's

[B]

why they all looked at her and they're like, oh, man, that's so cool that you did the thing that happened that we're not explaining at all.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

And I was like, what the hell is going on?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I get that, man.

[A]

But I. I still think it's funny to. I. I think it's like. I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I think this season is not a good one for you to come in on, obviously.

[B]

I got to start earlier ones, apparently.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm surprised that you can't, like, because, like, what you're actually watching to me, is truly not that different, except in tone.

[B]

Not just tone, but also the care. It's also casting because the. There's such characters on Traitor that you and I are still going. I think I'm going to watch season three.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Stuff like that. And none of these people stand out.

[A]

Well, that's. That distancing. I think that, like, that's that earnestness thing that, like, I've always loved when people are, you know, like. Well, yeah, I guess so. It's like. No, it's not even that because they're not all lying. I think they're all trying to, you know, forge alliances, and they just are finding themselves in a position where they have to lie or they have to leave out information or they have to, you know, deal with lying in a way that on traitors, there's an assumption, especially if you're a traitor, that that's what's going to happen. And so there's no. There's, like, the stakes are just so, like. Like what it came down to with Traders when Rob won last season. It's like, you couldn't fault him. You could never say, like, this person is a good or bad person, even though what he was doing was pretty objectively bad. Because of the. The level of distancing that the show creates around its gameplay. It's like, it's all up for grabs. Like, you could be. You could go in pretending with an accent and, you know, if you weren't a celebrity and, like, everyone would be, like, fair game, they won or, you know, whatever. Whereas in Survivor, there's a level of, like, you're here to, like, be your best self, to truly reveal yourself. You're like, we're gonna strip you down. It's like the psychological experiment. We're gonna strip you of your social conventions, your clothing, literally the shirt off your back. We're gonna strip you down, take away all the tools of your normal life, your money, your car, your house, your whatever your comfortable American life is. We're gonna strip all that away and put you with other people and see how you actually act. And I find that. I know that that's not.

[B]

That sounds like the first couple seasons of the show.

[A]

Yes. And I know that that's not what you're really seeing. I get that you probably don't buy in. You like, you're just less invested in that.

[B]

No, but you say like stripping the clothes off their back. At one point, Coach walks in in jeans and a shirt. Right. They're not stripping clothes off of anybody's back. One guy changed three times.

[A]

They only have one little bag and the clothes that they're allowed to.

[B]

I know, but so as far, I mean, again, they. That they did was like 14 minutes of the 90 minute show. I watched the rest of it. Is literally just hoping the three people you made. Your friends are going to vote the way they said they were going to. That's the whole show, right? That's it. We're going to. Hey, you know who we should vote for? Bob. Hey, hey, you know, you vote for Bob. Oh, my God. They didn't write Bob. They wrote.

[A]

You can strip down traders to the same ridiculous thing. It's like two people are going to keep lying. They're just going to keep lying. Everybody else is just going to, you know. And like when you talk, when you analyze what. Like with traders, there literally was no strategy. At a certain point, I feel like our analysis just got reduced to. I guess you just got to trust that person or not. And like, there's no reason, like. But it's also.

[B]

You listen when, when there's something about, with, with traders where if, you know you're specifically trying to root out one thing, we're trying to find this one liar, you're then hyper vigilant to all the things that everybody's saying. Like, ooh, did they. Okay, wait, did they say that yesterday? Or did they say that? And I don't. There's no real. It doesn't feel the same as, as it does on Survivor. And I get the idea of what you're saying sounds awesome and I would love to watch that. And I think that's the first few seasons of Survivor because what I think Survivor is dealing with now is the reality show whiplash, which is the Heisenberg principle, which is when nobody had seen Survivor, nobody knew what Survivor was. It's exactly that. We're gonna drop you off a boat, swim to whatever island you're at. We're not giving you fire. We're not giving you any of this stuff. That's what it is. No one knew what to expect. And it's essentially. Let's see if it reverts to Lord of the Flies. And eventually you're gonna have to vote each one off, which is essentially. Are we killing Piggy this week? Are we gonna kill somebody else who's got the conch?

[A]

Which it is. It still is.

[B]

But they show none of that. So what it is now is it's reality TV game players who've already played this game before.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who were. We're going to nicely drive you in a boat now to two separate islands, which is now just the one. It's a set. That's all it is, is a set. It's.

[A]

No, dude, I think it is still.

[B]

It's. They use the same one every season. It's.

[A]

It's harder to be on Survivor than it is to be in the castle

[B]

and Traders a thousand times.

[A]

Okay. So 100%. The deprivation of your life is clearly like they're on opposite ends of a spir spectrum. Right.

[B]

But show that if you're going to show the pageantry and the glitz of Traders. Show the fact that we haven't eaten in front. They're walking around. Hey, do you want a scallop? Sure.

[A]

Hey, here's Because Aussies, they're catching scallops.

[B]

Show me that. Show me that. Show me the Survivor in Survivor. This was. If you can't find 15 minutes in the 90 minutes we get past the,

[A]

like the editing producerial question. Can you accept that if. Could you accept that they actually are like, actually are struggling and, and, and. And starving?

[B]

Sure. The same way we had to accept they didn't actually live in the castle at Traders.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Over produced.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

That one is. They're not showing.

[A]

Making it harder for them. One is making it easier for them. But again, it's all just the spectrum.

[B]

It doesn't matter. It's all just what they're deciding to show us and they're taking a Survivor out of Survivor.

[A]

Accept that this is happening like that. Let's accept the reality that they, you know, because Sophie told me like she didn't eat for 11 days. Right. So, like, let's accept that reality. Could you get into the, like that. Doesn't that elevate the sort of what you're calling high school, you know, shenanigans? Of, like, conversations and who's aligned, doesn't that elevate it and make it more intense?

[B]

Or does if it's a character that, as somebody watching the show, if the deprivation is a character that you decide that I no longer have to see, I just have to accept they're hungry. No, I want to see part of that. If you're gonna say you've got to accept that they're deprived, but we're not gonna show you they're deprived, then why do I care? I just have to. That's like saying, you know, as far as I know, every night they take him to a Holiday Inn. I don't know. They're not showing me that. I have no idea. They literally walked over this time. And for somebody who hasn't seen the show and opened a fresh water thing and we're getting. I'm like, oh, so it's all fresh water. Okay.

[A]

So they're going, they have access to fresh water. They establish there's like, there is a water area. They always have access to water.

[B]

Show me that stuff. And then Rizzo was sleeping in a boat. Where'd they get a boat? I mean, it's like, show me these things. Can they fish? Show me. He's obviously, yes. Show me this stuff. The idea, this is where it's made. For people that already watch Survivor. And so what they're saying is there's two major elements to Survivor. It's two things you have to survive. You have to survive the harshness of the land and you have to survive the backstabbing of the game. And now what we're going to do is we're going to take out the harshness of the land and assume you already know that and now you just have to be okay with that.

[A]

Yes. I'm asking you, as my fellow co host to have faith that that happens, if you can, because otherwise you're just going to be railing against, you know.

[B]

Yes, but it's. But it makes for bad television. Sure, but that's what I. That's all I'm asking for in television is not bad television.

[A]

No, no, no, no. But I think it's not bad television for those of us who have watched every single season.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Or just accept that that's the given. You know, you talk about the pageantry of traitors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you accept that pageantry. You. The unreality of it. In this case, you're having a hard time accepting the reality of it. You're saying that the unreality, which makes it look too easy for them on the surface means that you lose interest because the reality, and I'm telling you actually the reality as far as by all accounts is exactly what you're describing. And you're not willing to accept that to enjoy the show because you're upset that the unreality is not mirroring that. Do you see what I'm saying? That's a double standard.

[B]

No, what I'm saying is as a television fan, aficionado, addict, when you came into Traders, you got it right away. I didn't need to say to you, hey, what you needed to see for the last four seasons to really understand what's going on is you have to understand they, blah, blah, blah and they blah, blah, blah and they blah, blah, blah. You and I could just sit down and watch the show every week. Now you're having to explain to me stuff that I don't understand because I didn't watch the first seasons. That's just a bad television show. That's a show made for people. The show every year should do a recap episode, the first half of the episode. Here's what you get. You know, show them cooking a little bit. Have a, if you've got a 90 minute show and you can't find seven minutes in the show to show that I'm really hungry. There's no, we overcooked this. We didn't catch any fish this week.

[A]

I honestly think what happened is that their ratings probably dropped because people got bored of the repetitive, the redundancy of that. And I think that, you know, they, they, they, they're probably reacting to the reality that like by, I don't know, probably eight seasons in, people, like I said, bought, you know, understood what was going on and their fan base just built around more of the gameplay, you know, and, and I think they.

[B]

Didn't I send you that thing? Didn't I send you that thing that the, the Luke, whatever. Luke Bryant, Luke Brown. What? The singer came, Zach Brown. That was apparently the lowest rated episode of Survivor in history. Yeah, but again, maybe, maybe go the other way. Maybe ramp it up. Like I said, you don't just lose your flint because you've already got fire burning. You lose your fire. Maybe you now have a water filtration system you have to build because you no longer have access to the fresh water. Maybe ramp up the Survivor part as opposed to ramping up just the cattiness, which is all it is. It's people, it's. I'm seeing a bunch of 10 year olds backstabbing each other Going like, oh, my God, I can't believe Claire just said this about you on the playground. And here's what we should do. I have an idol so that I

[A]

can get Claire kicked off. That's all Traitors is. That's literally all Traders is. But it's literally traitors literally says we're going to take people and put them in a situation where they act like 10 year olds, like, and play a game.

[B]

They're playing children's game where three people, you know, three people are liars. Not all 26 are liars.

[A]

I totally get your criticism. I just don't see how to me there's a double standard like traitors and

[B]

not this, I think complete and total difference between a bunch of essentially now reality show actors, which is what they

[A]

are, which is all Traders was.

[B]

Again, agreed. No, no, I'm talking about Traders. And again, a lot of them are going to be mirrored. That coming on to a place where it's the pageantry. Three people are going to be liars.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's about who you're going to trust in kind of the fun way. And all the rules are always the same. And another one where it's exactly the same thing on an island.

[A]

Not all the rules are always the same. They're changing the rules on Traders just as much as they're changing the rules on certain.

[B]

They're adding occasional things, but that's not changing the rul.

[A]

It's exactly the same thing that they do in Survivor. Like, oh, now we have a shield. Now we can't.

[B]

We won't, we won't ever agree on this.

[A]

Hold on, hold on. But we. I agree with everything. You're just saying they're exactly the same show up until when, like, at what point are they different? Because you, what you described was exactly right.

[B]

Again, there's a lot. There's a lot, a lot different. First of all, there's. You get the. There's more characters on Traitors that are playing into the fact that they're characters with the pageantry, with the glitz, with the glamour. There's all that kind of stuff.

[A]

It's the fact that people in Survivor take themselves seriously that bothers you.

[B]

No, what bothers you me is it's a show called Survivor that doesn't show surviving at all.

[A]

I'm saying have faith that they are actually surviving and that the editing is not that.

[B]

No, I'm not. As a viewer who doesn't watch the show, I shouldn't have to call my friend who watches the same show. To explain to me the faith of why I need to watch the show. That's a bad television show. I should be able to turn on season four of the Office and not have to call my friend to ask who Michael Scott is or what he's about to. You get them right away. You know what's happening. It's a good television show. I didn't need to see the first three seasons to understand what's happening on the show. And when I watch Survivor and again here I'm watching this and I'm like, they're cutting to things specifically just for the fans. And I know for the record, people are going to go, this one's called for the fans by the fans. That's fine. I get that. But then there's a reason your ratings are dropping. And from a television standpoint, the ratings are dropping because it's inside baseball, normal people. It's all inside baseball.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

And I just. And again, it's then inside baseball with a lot of characters I just don't like. So in Traders, you don't you, oh, I love to hate that guy. Or oh, I love this person. Oh my God, her accent's so funny. These people are just kind of despicable. And so I, I'm just, I haven't found anybody I'm rooting for. Literally everybody is so self aggrandizing. Here's the nickname I've given myself for this, this season and now I'm this. And oh my God. Well, don't get too cocky because the dragon's been released and I'm Riz the God.

[A]

See, that's. Dude, that's what I like. That to me gets to the heart of like what, what, what I think you have a problem with which is that they take themselves seriously and that, that, that they take this if, if they.

[B]

Yeah, it's not that. Take the Survivor part thing on seriously too.

[A]

But they are, they're just not. So I'm saying like, okay, you're like,

[B]

they're just not showing the Survivor part

[A]

of Survivor, the show as the editing and the production. Totally. Like, I get it. Like it's working on this meta, meta level. It's, it's only for the fans. Totally. Yes. I, but I, I think that that's separate from your saying like I don't like these people or that they're just acting, they're acting like a caddy group of 10 year olds or whatever that criticism. I, that's the only part I have, I take issue with, with what you're saying. Because I'm like. And I'm. That's not that I take issue with it. It's just that my perspective and I think this is going back to where we started. A huge difference between you and I is that I. I like when people take themselves seriously for better or worse, and I enjoy that way more than watching people play a character version of themselves or come in with this, like, you know, level of distancing that allowed, like, that level of distancing, made the gameplay of Traitors fun for you and made it sort of trivial and useless for me. On the flip side, in Survivor, them taking themselves seriously and, like, thinking that this is revealing their true selves and, like, that they're a God if they win or not, whatever, that makes Survivor tolerable for me. Whereas for you, it makes it intolerable. But actually, what we're describing is the same thing. Like, we're watching reality show. People compete with one another and form alliances or trust one another or not.

[B]

I don't know. I agree, and I disagree because at the same time, something like Dungeons and Dragons I take very seriously and the people I play with, again, very seriously.

[A]

But again, it's likable.

[B]

Right? But when you play these games with Alex, you got. You're famous for playing all these games that you guys have game nights and do all this kind of stuff. Do you take it seriously? Are you guys having fun?

[A]

We're having fun. No, totally. But. But, yeah. But I'm also not starving to death in order to do it.

[B]

Right. But then it Then make that a part of the show. I can see that's the point is maybe I would like these characters more if I re. If I'm as a. As somebody who's. I'm on a. I'm on a. An island of my own. I'm in a vacuum. And this show is put on in front of me right now. This season is put on in front of me. And I don't like Riz the God and I don't like Coach and I don't like any of these people. But if I've seen now they haven't eaten in 11 days, and they're kind of losing it a bit. I'm gonna. I'm gonna forgive them for that because I'm gonna be like, dude, he's probably delusional by this point.

[A]

I mean, he's exactly what's happening.

[B]

But I don't know that. I know. That's the point is. I don't know.

[A]

But you can keep saying that. Like when I close my eyes to go to sleep at night, how do I know the world doesn't disappear? You keep saying that. We have all the evidence telling us that it. The reality is they are starving, Will. They are struggling.

[B]

So why don't we just do Amer. Why don't we do the. Why isn't the next American Idol? Nobody sings. But we just know they can. No, we know they can. Other people have told us they can sing that we don't need to see it. We have to know that off camera they're really good at singing.

[A]

No, the difference would be having to see them practice. Like, because the comparison doesn't work. Because what they're actually competing on is the challenges, which we do see start to finish and then. And those determine the tribal councils, which we do see start to finish. So those are.

[B]

All of that is determined by how weak you are, how sleep deprived you are. Yes. How much you're. You're cold, how much you're wet, how much you're covered.

[A]

Those are the things that you have to make assumptions about or, you know, come in with the.

[B]

You are just describing how to make a bad television show. I'm going to make this a super important part of the show that I'm not going to show you at all. You just have to assume it's happening, happening. And I'm saying that's a bad TV show.

[A]

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[B]

I agree. I also was a little scared at first because when he's like, hey, I'll catch you up, and he's like, too late. It's like, oh, yeah. I mean, it's. The first thing he says is just like, no, you missed. You missed your boat to catch me up, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I felt it because I was like, oh. I would have been like, wow. So then everyone's plotting against me.

[A]

Against me. Right.

[B]

If you're not gonna put. I get the psychological stuff. That stuff would.

[A]

It sucks.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why you can see, like, you know how, like, Ozzy, you know, after the opening credits, meditated in the morning, like, trying to be, like, the bigger man, but, like, still feeling his feelings, you know? Like, so he goes and he apologizes to Christian. They hug it out, but then still have an idol. Ozzy does.

[B]

Yeah, he does. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Ozzy still has his idol that was gifted to him, I think, by Genevieve. God, I'm losing track of. Yeah. How he got it. The Billie Eilish thing is too hard.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

By Genevieve. It was Genevieve. Y. So he's still got his idol.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And I, you know, like, I feel this, man. Like, if you got. If I. If I got backstabbed, I would have a Hard time just being like, goop. Our game's a game, you know, like, cool, but you gotta play.

[B]

I have to say something. Yeah. And it's to your point from before maybe. And it's. This is quite possible.

[A]

This is.

[B]

Oh, my God. This is I need to talk to a psychiatrist kind of thing. What this could be bringing me back to is times in like, middle school and high school where you find out there's a party and your friends were there and weren't invited.

[A]

Totally, man.

[B]

That kind of stuff it bring. Maybe it's the agita I'm feeling that it brings me back to this.

[A]

And it's real. It's not gameplay.

[B]

Friends. Dude.

[A]

And it feels real. I know. And that's. Dude, I feel the same way. This is why I think I would be really bad at any of these kinds of things, is I take this shit so personally. And like. And you know, like they talk about later on in this episode. I think it was Devin's at tribal council about how important it is to see the show that you were on, to see how other people react behind your back. And I was like, yes. That's why I don't want to be on a reality show because I like living in the delusional world where I'm the coolest person and, like, people don't talk about me behind my back and

[B]

nobody says anything about me ever.

[A]

I know that's not true. But I also don't want to see it. I don't want to hear it. I don't even. This is why, like, being a public figure sucks so bad. Like, I don't be in unreality. It's like, I like. That's what I like about being an actor is that you're within the context of. Of the movie or the show. But being a famous person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Traitors. I think you're acting.

[B]

Maybe that's why I'm drawn to it, because it's like a caricature of yourself as opposed to this. But I felt that feeling of like. And we did it without social media where it's nowadays, kids are like, wait, there's a big party. My two best friends were there and I didn't get a call. That shit happens all the time.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And so I got that kind of feeling.

[A]

Well, there you go, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate that honesty. I think that that is getting to the heart of some. Why you can't enjoy this. Maybe because maybe may that feels ickier in a way for you. Yeah, I agree, man.

[B]

I.

[A]

It's funny because I'm attracted to that ickiness in a way that with the gameplay of Traders, I'm just like, who cares? Like, you're. You know, that's the thing.

[B]

There's a. There's a wink and a smile with Traders, whereas this seems devious.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it's totally, man.

[B]

And so there's a. There's a meanness to the show that then people are then like, oh, come on, we're just playing a game. And it's kind of like, yeah, but you slap me in the face so you can say you're sorry, but it still stings.

[A]

And that's why people carry. You know, that's why, like, in this episode, Charlie's still carrying around that weight his previous season, which totally works against him. You know, like, he turns on. On Rizzo, and you can see that those lingering feelings, man, like, it's real.

[B]

It is. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is. It's. There's an ickiness to this show that you don't get with Traders.

[A]

All right, so over at Sila, Jonathan and Charlie and Camila and D, who are the original, like, Callo 4. And you've got Rick kissing up to Jonathan. He's trying to be friendly with the Calo 4. And then Dee goes to Rizzo and says, would you want to work with the girls? And Rizzo's like, yeah. And that, of course, plays out throughout the rest of the episode.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Over at Callow Coach. God, I mean, I just love Hayden so much. Tidewalker.

[B]

Tidewalker. And it's so lame when you give yourself a nickname.

[A]

Yes. Dude, this is. This is why I can't take him seriously. It's like. Like the ultimate douche twat in what? In our Pod Meets world language. I mean, and here's the thing. I bet if I met this guy, we'd probably get along. Of course, you know, he seems smart. He's obviously, like. He's probably, like, a great person in real life, but on Survivor, it just seems like he can't resist slipping into this, like, cheeseball leadership role.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, obviously, he call himself Coach. Like, you are already, like. He's already given himself the nickname of Coach.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now he's got, like, triple down. He has the old nickname of dragon slayer. Now he's gonna be the Tidewalker. And I just want to shoot this guy and then myself for having listened to this guy.

[B]

It's the old proverb. It's the old proverb of the. The. The wannabe leader who Sees his entire population of people running in one direction. He says, oh, there go my people. I have to find out where they're going so I can lead them. Yes, that's exactly. That's what it's like.

[A]

I like that problem. I haven't heard that. Like, let me just jump in front of them and raise my hand and

[B]

be like, I have to find out where they're going so I can lead them. Yes.

[A]

But then also, it's just like, you know, cult number one. Like, cult rule number one, rename people. It really is. Like, if you look at any cult throughout history, when they get to the point where they're like, I'm gonna call you this. Your name is Vanguard. This.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you just. He literally knights them. He goes to Joe and he's like. And I could just see. This is what he does, man. He just creates a cult around himself, and I can't. And I. You know, these guys are so nice. Nice. I can see it on Colby's face. He's just like, sure, Oakbound Warrior.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Japanese folklore.

[B]

Oakbound Warrior. Wasn't expecting that.

[A]

And then he's like, I'm flattered. And it's like, I would totally be the same guy. I'd be like, sure, Coach, I'll be your Oakbound Warrior. But then if you call me that again in front of people, I'm gonna say, like, dude. Like, let's. Let's chill in the nicknames.

[B]

It's Colby. Yeah. Let other people give you nicknames, Dude.

[A]

Such the cult. Like, it's.

[B]

I was just like, oh, I'm the Tidewalker.

[A]

Like, okay, I'm the douche Twatter.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So then Aubrey and Tiff are getting along, and Aubrey knows that Genevieve wants her out. This is going to be the rivalry to, you know, I'm sure it's going to play out throughout the rest of the season. So Aubrey goes to coach and makes good with Coach because he's the cult leader. Everybody's going to have to go make good with coach until they don't seem

[B]

to like Aubrey for some. She just. It always seems like she's on the outs.

[A]

Well, you know, she's usually. She's typically been the underdog, and here she is the underdog again. But usually it was because she was sort of nerdy and, like, not that. And in this case, I guess that's playing. Playing into it. But it seems more like Genevieve just doesn't trust her. Like, she might just think she's a good player, therefore.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't want to play with this person, you know, she's going to backstab me, which is a little unfair. But yeah, I feel like I would be the Aubrey on this tribe. I'd be looking around being like all these, you know, dude bros playing with honor and integrity and giving themselves oak bound nicknames and like, like Coach isn't nicknaming the girls.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, right. He's not going around being like I bless you.

[B]

No, they haven't earned one yet. The tidewalker has not bestowed on them.

[A]

All right over at Sila, Charlie is still spinning his wheels out over.

[B]

Can't get rid of that one thing Rizzo said.

[A]

No, man. And I, yeah, I get, I get

[B]

why where he's like, you didn't vote for the nump, your number one person to win. Like you didn't win.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And you have to vote for one person to win and you don't vote for your number one.

[A]

But here's the irony is that Sophie was the number one that Charlie's talking about and Sophie was on this show and she loves Rizzo and is eluding for Rizzo. So it's Charlie's baggage more than this is actually that Rizzo did something wrong. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

She wasn't bothered at all that her, her friend didn't vote.

[A]

She didn't know she's still best friends with him. She's like, the way that she talked about it on our show was like totally cool. Like, just loves him and is hoping he wins. So. Wow. I think it's just, yeah, it's just Charlie spinning out and, and what I love is the way that this plays out. So, so he goes to Rizzo, asks him, you know, wakes him up in the boat and says like, who did you tell about the Billy Eilish thing? The Billy Idol? Charlie says then. Well, I, you know, because he tells him Rizzo's honest with him. He's like, oh, I told D. And then Charlie says, well, I told Jonathan, which isn't true. Right. Just to have like one up on Rizzo, which Rizzo then sees through, doesn't believe. So that turns everybody on Charlie, this one moment. So it's actually like Charlie's paranoia about Rizzo completely backfires and makes it a reality.

[B]

Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do, 100%.

[A]

If Charlie had just been like, you know what? I'm gonna be the better person. I'm gonna assume the best of Rizzo, he wouldn't have been voted out this episode. And like, you See it in this moment.

[B]

Don't do anything completely out of character. Who goes and wakes up. Don't knock on my boat at 5:15 in the morning. Totally like, dude, that's even.

[A]

It's too aggressive. Yeah.

[B]

Don't do anything weird.

[A]

No.

[B]

We are just gonna get you voted off.

[A]

Yes, yes. And it just goes to show that like when you're paranoid, if you activate it, you can make it a reality. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like if everybody's against me, then oh my God, guess what? Eventually everybody's gonna be against you.

[B]

Yeah. If you keep acting like that's a self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, 100%. Yep.

[A]

All right, so then Rizzo goes and tells D that he is the idol. He goes and gets Ciri on board. So now he has this alliance with Camilla Dee, Ciri and him, which is great gameplay, you know, as much as like Rizzo, honestly kind of annoying to me. I like Charlie better as a person. I think based on what we see edited wise at this point, I was like, RZA's playing a good game. I was.

[B]

When it comes to Rizzo, I find him incredibly annoying. But then I realized he's also really young. Absolutely. Talk about self aggrandizing himself. I know I himself and probably hungry as hell. That's why I want to see him. But yeah, it's, it's that kind of stuff where it's like, I'm going to be the best player ever in the history of any.

[A]

Just so high on his own supply from season 49. He's just like, Jeff said this to me and Jeff said this. And then he's like, I'm gonna be the best, Jeff.

[B]

It's like, what? Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[A]

All right, so we get to the challenge. Everyone's shocked that Mike White was voted out, which got up. You gotta remember, it's one day later, like you think about like how this game is going, you know, like they're, they're showing up at this immunity challenge and they're like, oh, Mike's gone. What?

[B]

No, I'm just thinking a joke came into my head that perfectly sums up Rizzo to me.

[A]

What?

[B]

Do you remember the joke of the. It's the old bull with the young bull.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, so there's an old. There's a father bull and a son bull on the top of a cliff and they look down and they see, you know, cows everywhere. And the young bull looks up and says, dad, I'm gonna run down there and one of those cows and the dad looks at him and says, son, let's walk down there and them all. And that's what it seems like to me with Rizzo. Like, he's like, oh, I'm so excited. I'm gonna win survivor. I'm gonna do all this kind of stuff. And the old sitting. No, you haven't yet. Oh, God. It's been around forever.

[A]

So old. But it's true. It's like be patient metaphor. The old bull. Proverb. Proverbs this morning. Thank you. You are the proverb walker.

[B]

I have to give myself a nickname. Writer. I'll find out what it is.

[A]

All right, so this challenge is. They got to swim to coconut bags, untie them, grab some keys, toss it to the platform. It's so crazy. All right, challeng. Jonathan and ozzy take the lead. Joe struggling a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's gassed, as Charlie says, which I was surprised by. I was like, dude, yeah.

[B]

You know, muscles, like, lean a lot of times, especially when you're not getting calories and sustenance. Big muscles is not great.

[A]

The big problem. Yeah. You see people struggle with this all the time, like the big guys because they've been eating a lot and building muscle. That's again, starve yourself.

[B]

Yeah. Somebody like Rizzo's body type could. Could be way better on the island than somebody like the giant's body.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So Cal does start to fall behind, but then tiff does this rope whip move. How badass is that? Killing it coolest thing. And, like, I think that literally wins them the challenge. Yeah. Because she does that. Which catches them up almost immediately.

[B]

Well, did you notice the other thing she did? She wasn't going one bag at a time. She wasn't opening a bag and dumping it. She undid all the bags.

[A]

So she just did one motion, Right? One motion.

[B]

Grab the next one, the next motion. Then instead of stopping to dump the bags, then she could dump them all. It was brilliant.

[A]

So cool. I wonder if she, like, practiced that or just discovered it in the moment. But it was awesome to see, and I love that. Even Jeff is like, never seen that in survivor. Yeah. Yeah, man.

[B]

She killed. She. You're right. I think she won it for them.

[A]

I think so. Because she did that. And then coach gets it with the grappling hook on his first toss. So that, like, it was just like, oh, okay. That put them in the lead. Sure enough, they also.

[B]

I hear your voice in my head every time I see these, and this is brilliant. Two things to show that are genius. Jeff probst is amazing. And. And the fact that you do need everybody to do these challenges and everybody can do these challenges and the sections that they have, it's not go lift big boulder all the time.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And that is really brilliant the way

[A]

that they do it. And it's taken them a while. We are going to have my old friend Miles Nye, who was. I talked about him as somebody who developed games for Survivor challenges. I don't know if he still does it, but I know he did it and he reached out, so we're going to have him on our show. I cannot wait to get some of the behind the scenes of how this stuff has developed because it's definitely progressed over time. All right, so now we're having a double elimination. Two, you know, and this is what happens. They have to start eventually evening it out. So it's not just one team constantly losing. So, yeah, you know, before the merge, you start doing these double eliminations. So now over at Sila, Charlie, you know, recaps his game. He needs Camilla on his side in order to make his alliance of four. He lies to her, says, kyle told me to play with Camilla, which she doesn't believe. I was like, I was watching with Indy. I was like, see, don't lie, dude, because this is the second time now where lies have backfired in this episode.

[B]

I'm like, it's also an unnecessary lie.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Why lie there? Just be like, I want to play with you. I think this would be great. We're strong together. We could work together. Why make an unnecessary lie? You never lie when you don't have to.

[A]

And sure enough, when Charlie goes back to Camilla and finally tells her about the idol, which is the good thing that they have, like, she says, well, your game is slow. Rizzo already told. Yeah. So, yeah, it's bad. All right. Over at Vaatu, Christian is aiming for Angelina and Ozzie doesn't feel that he can trust Christian and he asks Christian to give him his shot in the dark, which is. Is. You probably don't understand.

[B]

I knew. I knew it was something like a bonus, but I don't know what a shot.

[A]

No, it's sort of like if you are pretty positive that you're going to get voted out, that you're going to get blindsided rather than voting. In other words, you give up your vote. I think that's how it works. You give up your vote and then you get a shot in the dark, which means basically you have a. I think it's a 1 in 6 chance of stay, of, of being, of gaining immunity. I think it's. Yeah, so it's a one in six chance. It's like basically rolling a six sided dice that you will just survive no matter what before, you know, before the vote and then nobody can vote for you. So it's like basically if you go to. It's a way. So like if you're sitting on a tribe and there's, you know, it's a. It's. Because the problem, if you didn't. If you. Before they had shot in the darks, what could conceivably happen and did happen a few times is that the whole tribe would get together and they'd be like, well, we all hate person X. You know, there's five of us and one of them. So they just say, person X, we're sorry, we're all voting for you. And they could just say that and there'd be no gameplay for the rest of the episode because then person X would just be like, well, I'm screwed. And they can't do anything about a majority, just votes for them. And you could just get everybody to agree we all hate person X, get them out. And so the shot in the dark subverts that possibility because person X can play their shot in the dark and still have a 16 chance of just.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

So it's a very important gameplay that they had to introduce. I think it's only been like 10 seasons or maybe a little bit more. But until before that, yeah, it was just like majority rule. It would just be like, hey, let's all get together and decide. So it's a very important gameplay. But yeah, so I found this interesting, you know, and I love the way that, you know, Ozzy is. He's kind of like cheesy in this way. It's like, you know, he just wants like you to prove that you. I can trust you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you know, I love that Christian calls it this like ritual of subservience to Ozzy of the island. And I was like, it's true though. And I have to say, it plays like Christian does give his shot in the dark to Aussie, but only after

[B]

somebody comes up to says, ozzy's gunning for you. And then he was like, all right, that's the only move I have left is like, I have to give him the shot in the dark. That's all I got.

[A]

And it works out.

[B]

It really does.

[A]

And I actually think that between last episode and this episode, I hope that Ozzy can See how much Christian went through in these two episodes and that the two of them actually have formed a pretty awesome alliance if they're willing to forgive each other. Like they did. Exactly. They ritualistically played out what they needed to. To have, like, an incredible alliance together. I don't know if Ozzy's gonna see it that way. I think Christian does, like.

[B]

But again, it's. The second you get somebody does something super sketchy like they started this episode with, there's always gonna be that seed of doubt. Like, now I have to. I have to think about everything you say to me because you. You left me out of something really major.

[A]

But see, that's what I think giving. When Christian gives him the shot in the dark, that's a way to say, like, I'm. I'm giving you something major now. I hope that because I like both of them, they're very different players, the two of them. So I'd like to see that work out. You know, I also like Emily, who is. You know, once they merge that they're. They're going to have each other. I think Ozzy still got my favorite.

[B]

I think Ozzy's my favorite. I do. I like him a lot. I think he's. I mean, again, I'm trying to find favorites and trying to find people to root for. I like him. But again and again, not to keep harping on this. I just wish I knew the backstories better of all the people because then I'm sure. I think you told me that Ozzy's, like, come close, but they keep voting him out after just keeping everyone fed. Like, like knowing all that. That stuff would make me root for people more. So I get it. But, you know, maybe in the future, Survivor, if you're listening, maybe do a bonus episode, maybe put it up online. Maybe do something where it's a recap of all the characters you're bringing back and all the stuff going on. So as somebody who doesn't know the show can go in knowing the backstories of everybody, knowing what's going on. It's the Cliff content for you.

[A]

The Cliff Notes episode of Just like. Absolutely.

[B]

And do. If you want to put it up on cbs, great. If you just want to put it online. But it would be super helpful. Helpful to have that kind of roadmap to a little primer.

[A]

Right? 100. I agree, man. I wonder if they actually do. And we just don't know.

[B]

That's super possible

[A]

website that's dedicated to mapping all this.

[B]

Catch me up on Survivor.com, you idiot. Oh, sorry.

[A]

They made it just for Wilfred Ellis Primer. CBS produced this. What are you talking.

[B]

They did the show. What are you doing? Yeah, exactly. But no, I do now. Question is, is this in perpetuity? Now he has this thing, and he has to give it away.

[A]

It's not like, I think he just gave it to him for this vote, and then he'll give it back. Okay, so it's just every. Yeah. I'm assuming. Unless he's gonna steal his. Well, that would be pretty. I guess he could turn around and be like, no, I'm just keeping it. I'm not gonna give it back.

[B]

You can't touch it. Go ahead, grab it.

[A]

Grab it. Go get it.

[B]

Go get it. Come on. Come up.

[A]

All right, so then Rizzo tells Ceri that he is an idol, and she returns the favor by telling him that she has the extra vote from Ozzy, which I totally forgot about, by the way.

[B]

This is when the very first one where he decided not to take off

[A]

Ozzy was like, don't give me the pot.

[B]

Yeah. So he.

[A]

But I didn't realize he. I forgot that he gave that vote to Siree as a show of, like, hey, yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't. I totally didn't remember that. So she says she has extra, which is great. So that's what I really do think that, like, right now we're heading towards this place where, if Christian and Ozzie can oversee their differences, is you've got Christian, Ozzy, Emily, and Serie who might be working together, which is like an incredible team of four in the Emily. Emily's the sort of nerdy girl with Aussie and Christian. She's the one who can't keep her mouth shut, who keeps blurting out like, oh, gotcha.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the blondes. The blondes.

[A]

She's a very good player, actually. And. And. And if those kind. If they can keep their alliance, that team of four, because once they merge Scourge, they got to deal with all the other people. And I feel like because Siree is such a good player and she's been kind of flying under the radar, but.

[B]

Well, that's the thing. I feel like the way to win this is you kind of, you. You connect yourself with a. With a strong team, but then you kind of become a leaf on the wind. And because she's not notice, she's not throwing out who they should vote for. She's like, who are we voting for this week? And either Ozzy or it's usually Christian come up with here's what she's like. Okay. And so I think you do that for as long as you can. Until then, you've got to say, start playing. Exactly.

[A]

And then look at the. The. And Aussie says it. The three of them have been to every single Tribal. Yes, those three. So think about that. Trauma bonding, though, going into the rest of the show. They're like, they're survivors. They have survived together. I think that's going to be really instrumental moving forward, which is going to be fun to see, you know, I mean, because think about it. They're going to be on the same tribe as Coach, probably next episode, actually. I know because of the preview said that they're merging, so, like, they're going to be dealing with people, you know, and each. They're having. See, this is where that's fine.

[B]

Dude, come on. All right, I'll get there.

[A]

Go. Yeah. So. All right. So Rizzo is then bragging about his game on 49, which starts turning people off and I. Turning me off. I was like, dude, just keep your mouth shut. Be cool. And it turns out that Camilla is sort of the swing vote between her four alliance and this new alliance that she has with Sari and Dee and Rizzo. Which way is she going to go? I was pretty surprised at this point. I was like, she's going to stick with her original and it didn't work out that way. Anyway, we get to Tribal. Jeff Probst, you know, he's really just, like, coming to his own as a. Like, he's. He's like, he's rapping now. He's doing impersonations. Stick with the impersonations.

[B]

Yeah, it's better than the rapping. Better than the rapping. I'm gonna give you that.

[A]

It's better than the rapping, the music, buddy.

[B]

But, God, he's good at this. I mean, man, he's good at this. He also. So I have to imagine from the way he runs the Tribal Council, he's getting constant intel of the inside stuff that's going on on the island because he's asking the right questions to the right people.

[A]

That's why I thought he had an earpiece. Dude. I was sure that there were producers in his ear helping him, like every news anchor has or whatever to do their. But no, he is literally flying out there and, you know, these Tribal Councils are much longer than they actually show.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure they're hours long.

[A]

He's running this room, this fireplace, like, he's running this. This fire circle without. Without any Help. So even if they are telling him, yeah, I'm sure they' giving him the down low of, like, what happened that day.

[B]

He might even be watching. He might be watching the feeds of what's going on on the island, watching the footage because it's like, oh, they're

[A]

in an alliance, keeping track of everybody's.

[B]

Must be insane. I still don't know.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I still don't know.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So, yeah, no, he's very good at

[A]

this job and getting to sit in a probably really nice hotel room every night while these people are somewhere in Fiji.

[B]

Yeah. Just being fed grapes.

[A]

I remember somebody saying that they saw. They saw an interview with him or talk, and he was just, like, describing the smell.

[B]

Smell.

[A]

Like just the way that people smell after 30 days. I was like, oh, right. These are people, like, you know. Yeah, that's.

[B]

And you're bathing yourself in, like, the fishy ocean right near you where there's clams and mollusks. Yeah. You're probably not smelling like roses at this point.

[A]

All right, so first tribal kind of goes like, you know, there's a slight implication that maybe they're going to turn on Ozzy. Turns out it's kind of faded. They're just sticking with their original. Angelina's out, which is fine. I mean, she has not played a hu. So I don't really have feelings one way or another. I was watching with Indy. He can't tell the difference between Angelina and Stephanie, which I kind of agree with. I was like, yeah, they haven't developed these people. They haven't stood out enough.

[B]

You know who I know a lot about? Zack Brown. Yep. Know a lot about him.

[A]

I know how to cook his fish.

[B]

Know a lot about. Don't know the players on the show, but I could tell you three of Zac Brown's songs and how he likes to spend his weekends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I know what you're saying, man.

[A]

They really screwed. They've really.

[B]

That was. There was a big backlash against that, too. There was a lot of stuff online about.

[A]

About, like, 25 minutes I made that joke. I was like, jesus, do we need a whole commercial? But it turns out everybody felt the same way. It's a little. Yeah, I think that they've gotten a little ahead of themselves or. Or they've lost a little sight of, like, who they're. Who they're playing to. You know, it's like people. Yeah. I think there's, like, Survivor nerd Dom, and I feel like they're getting a little too into their nerd and that's

[B]

what this is I get about for the fans. I get. I get this is a show for the fans, by the fans this season. I understand that, that. But you'd think the fans would want to bring in more fans. And the way that you do that is you. You open it up and then I think, so you've got the Billie Eilish who's a fan. They're bringing fans onto the island. It's like, I've been watching it. So I get the whole season.

[A]

By the way, why isn't Billie Eilish popped in? Like, even with just like a video, is she gonna show up at the end? Like, I'm so, like, she obviously is a fan, lends her name to this idol thing. But I thought maybe there'd be like a message from her, like a video message, like, here I am, good luck. And there's nothing. I'm like, did she just refuse to do it? Was she. Yeah, I love it, but I'm not gonna.

[B]

I'm not gonna be on camera.

[A]

Maybe, maybe.

[B]

Maybe, like, in the last thing, she'll

[A]

be there or she'll perform at the final. I don't know. It's super interesting though, like, because I don't know Billie Eilish all that well. Like, I'm not. I just know some of her songs, but I know that, like, her whole jam is, like, much more about, like, being authentic and, like, not showy. Like, she's like, her whole thing is, like, she's just wide open with her fans. It's like she. She rips her heart out on stage and she's like, like, hugs every. So I wonder if she's just, like, not cool with being on a reality show the same way that Zach Brown is. Like, make me look cool with my spear bazooka.

[B]

My 12 foot long fins.

[A]

I got it.

[B]

Have you seen the size of my man fins?

[A]

All right, second tribal just comes down to this battle between Rizzo and Charlie. And, yeah, like, you know, they. Everything they say at tribal was fine, but gave no hint of which way it was going to go. I'm sorry, Let me.

[B]

Let me set the mood. And I'm like, oh, my God. I know.

[A]

And they time it perfectly so that they. When somebody says something slightly dramatic, they're like, I know, man. It's so cheesy. It's so true. It's so.

[B]

Turn the music down, please. It is just. And with the tiki torch, it just. It looks like they're. It honestly looks like you're waiting in line. For the Indiana Jones run.

[A]

I know, I know. It's. Yeah, you could say. I think it was more problematic when the show started because they would lean into the tribalism. Even worse now I think it's a little more just like it's its own Survivor style.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, it's not necessarily like one culture versus another. It's like, it's just kind of a generic.

[B]

It's generic. It's the ukis from. From poor Meats World.

[A]

It totally is. Which is maybe more offensive because it's like somewhat aboriginal, somewhat Native American, somewhat island.

[B]

It's a hodgepodge. It's just blue.

[A]

Anything that's not white, hey, it's savage. It's not civilized. Yeah, I know it's a little offensive, but it is.

[B]

I'm just waiting for the guy to come out and be like, it's a 45 minute wait for the Indiana Jones ride. So you sit back like, okay, I get it.

[A]

Make sure you're wearing your seatbelts for this tribal and then do it in Spanish.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's so true. Or you know what they do at Disneyland? They always. When the ride breaks down, they say it in theme. They're always like, you know, ghosts have hijacked our. The Haunted Mansion rides. One of the Survivor would be like, yeah, A tribe of natives has taken over the tribal council. We're gonna have to wait 45 minutes.

[B]

So true. That's one of the best days I've ever had at Disneyland or Disney World. I was.

[A]

I was with you. Don't you remember?

[B]

I was doing the. The. The big country, mountain, whatever broke down and we were in the booth when it broke down and they let me do the. Sorry, folks. Looks like the ride. What's not.

[A]

I was not with you.

[B]

I swear to God. You were. I was like, can I do the announcement? They're like, you were.

[A]

The booth at the railroad.

[B]

We were backdooring everything at that point. And they're like, yeah, come on and see how it works.

[A]

You backdooring everyone, know what I mean? So we. I don't. So you were at the big.

[B]

I swear to God you were with me. And the ride broke down and the microphone's right there. I was like, can I do the stuff?

[A]

And he's like, sure.

[B]

And it was seriously me going like, who? Oh, folks, looks like we got a little problem. Searching for gold. Like that guy just like making stuff up.

[A]

It was so cool. I love it. Oh, that's so cool.

[B]

So, yeah, it would be that for Survivor.

[A]

Too bad we didn't have cameras back then, we would have had footage of that. Right.

[B]

Exactly it. Great.

[A]

All right. Well, tribal ends with Charlie getting voted out.

[B]

I was surprised.

[A]

I thought they were surprised.

[B]

Me too. You're feeding into this dude's ego about how he's the greatest of all time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's not better than the tidewalker.

[A]

And I guess this is Charlie's first time because he, the last season that he played, he made it to the final three. So this is the only time he's ever been voted out. So that's what he says. And his like, oh, guessing now I know what it's like to have my, my, my, my smoke trapped in, as indie would say.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Smoking trap.

[B]

You're smoking. So the last it makes it to a final three.

[A]

Yeah, there's sometimes some seasons it's been four, some seasons been two, but yeah, it's, I think it's been a final three now.

[B]

So then you're obviously not voted out. It's just somebody of that group wins. Yeah. Gotcha.

[A]

Yeah. But it gets really interesting when you get to the final three because one person wins immunity in order to guarantee that they're in the final three and then.

[B]

God.

[A]

So wait, maybe it doesn't, you know, I'm not gonna pretend I know what's going on because everything I say will just make our listeners scream at the radio. So I don't know, Will. It's gonna be exciting. You're gonna be excited. What it comes down to often is that they make people go to fire. So it becomes a fire building contest for the final position.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Cuz if you can build a fire and they, they have like a rope above, like, like, like a full foot and a half above the fire and you have to build a fire that's sustained long enough to burn through the rope and then whoever builds their fire long enough to burn through the rope gets to go to into the final three. That's super interesting. You'll see. But that's why, like, why you would ever go into Survivor without knowing how to make fire backwards and forwards in any condition. I don't know. That's why alone you got to make

[B]

fire, you got to make shelter. It's like that the most important part.

[A]

All right, well, I, I feel like we started off with you being very, you know, against the show or just with your criticism. But through the course of our recap, I, I, I feel like you got a little back into it.

[B]

We again, I, I just, I, I, I want, and I know that our, our Listener is going to say to me, you got. Because I'm seeing the comments. A lot of people are like, go back and watch your earlier seasons.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I just think at this point with this season, and I get it, it's about the fans and by the fans. And so it's. It's just the gameplay, but I think they're missing the balance that would bring in a new audience. And I think they're seeing that with the numbers where it's like, that's. That's all it is, is there's no. It's just caddy people now. And I'd like to know again, I can give you a pass on some of the things you're saying, knowing that you've had three grains of rice in the last week and a half. I want to see that sue spent the entire thing just going like, what happened to the chickens? Are the chicken. Did they do. Do they eat all the chickens? Are. Are they there for the eggs? What happened to the chickens here? Stuff.

[A]

Here are two things that I hope happen this season that have. That have. That have happened in seasons past and then also not been a part of seasons past. And I'm hoping that the fans have voted for these two things to happen. One is they have what's called Survivor auction, which is they give them cash, like, literally can hand them all cash, equal amounts of cash, and then bring up objects which are mostly gonna be food, but sometimes disgusting things, but you just get it like a cake, you know, a cake pan. So you just see like this thing. You don't know what's in it. And they vote. They. They spend their money to, like. And sometimes it's like, you got an octopus eye and they have to eat that if they want it or they can't or it'll be like a chocolate cake or fries and beer. And you get to see these people lose their shit over and you really. Yeah. So that's something that's super fun, and it hasn't been in every season. I hope the fans for that. The other one is they bring their family members to the island and. And. And they have these moments where they, you know, they get to reunite with somebody, either their husband, their wife, their child, their mom, somebody from there. And you see these people lose their minds because they really are struggling. And you see them, like, they're just. They just fall apart hugging their person, and then they. You get to see them have a moment or two in. If they win the ch. Often what the reward challenge is is like the result is you either get to spend a couple hours with your family or you don't. So people don't get to spend time with their family and they're like, bye. And they just lose their. Or they get to spend time alone with them and you see them communicating with their person from back home and you get to see the real them. Cuz there's. They're no strategy and they're just like, mom, I'm scared to be out here by myself. These people hate me. And you get to see like. So I think that would help you understand how severe it is for them. And so those are like two of my favorite things that haven't been a part of every season. So I really hope they do that this season. How long is it?

[B]

Is it a month?

[A]

Yeah, it's like 30 days.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So we're only a quarter of the way through.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. I got one segment. This is of course Will's history of the people that survive stuff and stuff and things. I got one today. And you're gonna say, will Friedl, you're a liar. But I'm not. This is Vesna Vol. Volovic. Vesna Volovic.

[A]

It's weird that even though you know this off the top of your head, you have a hard time pronouncing.

[B]

I have a weird thing. It's called pronunciation, brain matter problems. Or P, B, M, P. Right. Where I.

[A]

Could you just close your eyes and say the name again?

[B]

Like if you reach yonder Vezna, I

[A]

feel like you're still keeping the one I own.

[B]

Vesna Volovic is her name okay?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was a Serbian flight attendant who survived the highest fall ever without a parachute.

[A]

Wait, didn't we already do this one?

[B]

Nope, different lady.

[A]

We did this one. She fell in Peru into the.

[B]

Okay, this is different lady. This is the highest Guinness highest fall ever without a parachute. Because the other lady you remember fell from 10,000ft and survived.

[A]

Yes. This is even higher.

[B]

33,000, 330ft or 6. Cruising altitude, 6.31 miles.

[A]

She fell into what? Where? How did she fall?

[B]

She was the sole survivor of Jat flight 367. After an explosion tore through the baggage compartment on 26th of January, 1972, causing it to crash near a place in Czechoslovakia. I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce because of the problem I have in my brain. I'm not even saying.

[A]

Yeah, the brain. Pronunciation matter problem.

[B]

Srbiska. Com.

[A]

Oh my God. Why was there an explosion in the baggage compartment?

[B]

Air Safety investigators attributed the explosion to a briefcase bomb. The Yugoslav authorities suspected the Croatian nationalists were to blame, but no one was ever arrested. Following the bombing, she spent several days in a coma and was hospitalized for several months. She suffered a fractured skull.

[A]

Okay, but how did she survive the fall?

[B]

She just did.

[A]

They don't have to say what she fell into.

[B]

Nope. Let me wait. Let me rack through my brain. Let me rack through my brain.

[A]

Croatia how do you like. She must have hit a tree line or like what breaks your fall from 30,000ft?

[B]

She was discovered by a villager who heard her screaming amid the wreckage. Her turquoise uniform was covered in blood and her stiletto heels had been torn off by the force of the impact.

[A]

Oh, so she stayed with the plane.

[B]

She apparently stayed with the plane.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Oh, racking my brain. Racking my brain. There's the fact I need. Air safety investigators attributed her sur to being trapped by a food cart in the DC9's fuselage as it broke away from the rest of the aircraft and plummeted towards the ground. When the cabin depressurized, the passengers and other clue were bought. Other crew were blown out of the aircraft and fell to their deaths. But the fuselage pinned inside. This woman. This woman was pinned inside, landed at an angle in a heavily wooded and snow covered mountainside, which cushioned the impact. So she broke her skull. 33,000. She fell 6.31 miles. She suffered a fractured skull, three broken vertebr broken legs, broken ribs and a fractured pelvis. She was temporarily paralyzed from the waist down, but made an almost complete recovery, only walking with a slight limp. Wow. And then in 1990 was she went back to being flying again. What? Back to being a flight attendant on the same airline. And then the airline fired her in 1990 because she went to an anti government protest during the breakup of Yugoslavia.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

See that's one of those when you survive something like that, that's when you just Tony Robbins your life and you just decide to become like a public speaker.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

The first Slovakian just become like a motivational speaker.

[B]

Motivational speaker.

[A]

Yeah, you know, like that's what the guys who survived the Live alive story. Like, that's what they did. Like you just like don't go back to the thing that put you in this position in the first place. That's horrible.

[B]

She went back and was a flight attendant and then they fired her. Oh, can you imagine those termination papers? Like, are you kidding me? 30.

[A]

Thanks. Thanks for all your service.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. She fell 6 point I drove 4 miles yesterday. She fell 6.31 miles and survived. Crazy.

[A]

All right, you've been listening to Pod Meats Twirled the torches may be snuffed, but our questionable analysis burns on. We'll see you next time at tribal Trap yourself smoking. This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human.