Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 402

Summary

Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 402

Podcast: Pod Meets World (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: January 16, 2026
Hosts: Will Friedle, Rider Strong

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Episode Overview

In this lively installment of Pod Meets Twirl’d, Will Friedle and Rider Strong dive into Season 4, Episode 2 of Peacock’s reality competition show The Traitors. The conversation covers everything from breakfast feasts in Scottish castles to in-depth analysis on gameplay strategy and reality TV personalities. The hosts bring their signature mix of humor, curiosity, and reality-TV-savvy skepticism, unpacking the high drama, alliances, betrayals, and memorable moments with plenty of banter and quotable moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cliffhanger Format and Show Structure

• Will and Ryder discuss the show’s use of cliffhangers and delayed “murder” reveals.
• They both admit the format keeps tension high, with Will noting, "It's really, really big on the cliffhangers on this show." (02:28)

2. Breakfast Scene and Player Banishment

• The hosts poke fun at the elaborate breakfast spread and the tension of waiting to see who doesn’t show up.
  • Ryder: "There was a potato dish, there was some good eggs up there—clearly juices from all around the world—worth the price of admission right there at the castle, in my opinion." (03:00)
• Discussion about Dorinda’s return and the emotional moments for reality stars.

3. Sequestration of Banished Players

• Ryder suggests banished contestants have to stay in a hotel, leading to a jokey discussion about enforced Scottish vacations (04:04).

4. First “Murder” Choices—Why Target Certain Players?

• The rationale for picking Ian, Mark, Eric for possible “murder” is debated, with Will noting, “They definitely picked four low key dudes. Like, there was no big personalities in here.” (05:04)
• Both agree that being considered a “threat” early is a weird compliment, referencing Ian’s banishment.

5. Player Personalities and Playstyles

• Enthusiastic analysis of Michael Rapaport’s over-the-top approach:
  • Will: “He’s an emotional baby.” (05:50)
• Discussion about the pitfalls of being too visible or too loud as a contestant. Ryder: “If you’re a traitor, I wouldn’t imagine you’d want to be the center of attention.” (08:16)

6. Suspicions Around Donna

• The hosts dissect the group turning against Donna, “the most suspicious” but also “the mom” and an outlier for being older and more reserved:
  • Will: “She’s just chill, you know, like a normal human being... Why are they picking on her?” (09:05)
  • Ryder: “First one I would have picked to have been a secret traitor. Very first one I would have picked.” (09:59)
• They touch on how real-world dynamics (age, social type) impact gameplay.

7. Portia’s Accidental Confession

• Portia slips up, saying she “killed Ian,” leading to rampant speculation.
  • Will: “At this point, I was like, oh, she’s a secret traitor—I was thoroughly convinced.” (11:08)
  • Ryder notes she’s either the traitor or “just not that good at this.” (11:56)
• This sparks a conversation about how confusing word choices can light up suspicion.

8. The Physical Challenge—Throne Swapping Strategy

• The “Players on Thrones” mission is praised for its “Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves” vibes and smart gameplay.
  • Will gives kudos to Colton: “He actually looked at the situation and explained it perfectly. He’s like, you don’t want to swap too early… Which was brilliant.” (14:20)
• They discuss how physical and social gameplay overlap.

9. Managing Team Drama—The Michael Rapaport Factor

• Michael’s ego and outbursts draw attention:
  • Will: “You’re just putting a target on your back by being an ass.” (17:06)
• Ryder: “Everyone else was discussing, like, is he the... best traitor in history? Because there’s no way he can be a traitor, because who the hell would play it like this?” (17:31)

10. Alan Cumming as Host

• Ryder: “Alan Cumming is a really engaging host. He’s very good at this… It’s the fabulous thing and the kind of, the subdued comedy. Oh, I think some of it’s great.” (18:54)
• Comparison with Jeff Probst of Survivor—discussion of hosting styles.

11. Dinner Conversations and Game Socializing

• Wonders about the castle’s culinary offerings and suggestions for a spin-off food-focused episode.
• Lively tangent about playing D&D in a Scottish castle (21:05).

12. Second Roundtable and Voting Dynamics

• Natalie calls out Donna; Ron brings “receipts” against Portia regarding her slip-up.
• Will: “Based on what was said at this table, there was no doubt in my mind that Portia was the right vote.” (23:09)
• Both express shock that Portia, when banished, turned out to be a Faithful despite seemingly clear “evidence.”

13. Post-Vote Fallout—Turning Against Ron

• Will expresses frustration that Ron, who presented real evidence, is now the target:
  • Will: “I feel like Ron, at this point, I was like, Ron is getting the short end of the stick. He is being reasonable… and he’s losing for it.” (27:10)
• Recognition that social alliances trump rational argument.

14. The Murder in Plain Sight Twist

• Traitors receive instructions to murder someone publicly; Candace starts a conga line as cover.
• Will: “Sometimes being a little extra is in your benefit.” (30:11)
• Rob C. immediately suspects foul play: “Who started the conga line?”—earning the hosts’ admiration for his strategic insight (31:00).

15. Rob C. as Potential Winner

• The hosts agree Rob C. might have won the game if he weren’t murdered, praising his paranoia and social read (31:17–31:32).

16. Traitor Coordination—Chess Move and Communication

• Rob R. and Lisa coordinate at the chess table, using the cover to plan their actions.
  • Will: “So the traitors… did really well with this thing.” (34:37)
• Discussion about contestants’ sequestering and producer tricks to increase suspense.

17. Game Mechanics—Unveiling the Secret Traitor

• Ryder theorizes producers revealed the secret traitor so early because Donna was already a clear target: “I’m convinced… because the producers already knew the Secret Trader was dead.” (36:13)
• Prediction of a possible twist where a new Secret Traitor might be chosen mid-season.

18. Donna’s Game Choices and Producer Decisions

• Reflection that Donna, as a reserved, older player, was an easy target:
  • Will: “She was just playing really poorly.” (38:02)
• Ryder: “They did her dirty. They should have made her a Faithful.” (38:49)

19. Closing Thoughts

• Will sums up: “Alliances were tested, trust misplaced, and once again, we’re left with a cliffhanger. As Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.” (40:15)

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Memorable Quotes

• Will Friedle [05:50]: “He’s an emotional baby.”
• Ryder Strong [08:16]: “If you’re a traitor, I wouldn’t imagine you’d want to be the center of attention.”
• Will Friedle [09:05]: “She’s just chill, you know, like a normal human being... Why are they picking on her?”
• Ryder Strong [17:31]: “Is he the... best traitor in history? Because there’s no way he can be a traitor, because who the hell would play it like this?”
• Will Friedle [23:09]: “Based on what was said at this table, there was no doubt in my mind that Portia was the right vote.”
• Ryder Strong [31:32]: “That's your winner.”
• Will Friedle [30:11]: “Sometimes being a little extra is in your benefit.”
• Will Friedle [38:02]: “She was just playing really poorly.”
• Will Friedle [40:15]: “As Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:28 – Discussion of the show’s cliffhanger structure.
• 03:00 – Commentary on the Trader’s breakfast spread and “who’s missing” reveal system.
• 05:04 – Analysis of early picks for “murder” and why “low key dudes” were targets.
• 09:05–09:59 – Breakdown of the group’s suspicion towards Donna.
• 11:08–11:56 – Portia’s slip and the hosts’ theories.
• 14:20 – Praising Colton’s throne-swapping strategy.
• 17:06 – The perils of Michael Rapaport’s drama.
• 18:54 – Praise for Alan Cumming as host.
• 21:05–21:36 – D&D in the castle tangent.
• 23:09 – Will’s certainty about voting for Portia.
• 27:10 – Disappointment at the group turning on Ron.
• 30:11 – “Being a little extra is in your benefit.”
• 31:00–31:32 – Rob C. calling out the conga line as a murder cover.
• 36:13 – Ryder’s producer theory about revealing Donna.
• 38:49 – Reflection on Donna’s casting and gameplay challenges.
• 40:15 – Episode summation and Shakespeare reference.

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Tone & Style Notes

• Conversational, self-deprecating, enthusiastic.
• Plenty of sidebars and reality TV references, keeping the chat lively.
• Blend of genuine curiosity, fan-level engagement, and critical skepticism.
• Frequent interplay between hosts’ personalities: Will as the analytical skeptic, Ryder as the playful, game-loving fan.

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This summary should provide listeners (or potential listeners) with an in-depth, entertaining, and comprehensive overview of the episode, highlighting the major themes, funniest moments, and deep dives into both the gameplay and how reality TV is constructed.

Transcript

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[Will Friedle]

Welcome to POD meets Twirled, a podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away. Experts. So now we turn to Traitors, another show I've never seen, but Will is convinced that he could win. We are Will Friedle and Ryder Strong, Two best friends. One a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars join us as we step into a castle full of lies, alliances, and over the top wardrobe choices. This is POD meets Twirled. Trading Places.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, yes, yes. Episode two.

[Will Friedle]

At least put your hoodie up.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, no, I had the whole thing going.

[Will Friedle]

I had it going, but eventually, you.

[Ryder Strong]

Know, I gotta get. I'm at work. This. I need a new. I need a new one. This is. Well, when I go on the show, I'll get my own.

[Will Friedle]

I want one of those gold face masks.

[Ryder Strong]

I can get you one of those. I can get you one of those. Five minutes. Oh, I got a gold face mask guy. That's easy. That's cake.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it's very. Squid games, actually. Squid game. A little that and a little.

[Ryder Strong]

What's the Tom Cruise sex movie?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Eyes Wide shut.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, Little eyes wide shut. Oh, my God. I've gone turtle. I trapped myself.

[Will Friedle]

Hang on.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, there we go. Okay, we're good.

[Will Friedle]

All right. We continue our journey with Traitors, Season 4, Episode 2. We already kind of spoiled it at the end of our last episode because all three of first episodes dropped and we just.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, we did. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So do they normally do this where they delay, like, who actually got murdered until the next episode or.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, apparently, according to producer Tara. Thank God she's here. Because we would be going, what's going on? Well, that's how we were doing Dancing with Stars.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's really, really big on the cliffhangers on this show. Yeah, like, that's just. My God.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like whatever that movie was with Sylvester Stallone.

[Will Friedle]

Edge. What is it called?

[Ryder Strong]

Cliffhanger.

[Will Friedle]

It's just literally called Cliffhanger. Gotcha. So beginning of episode two, we pick up at the cliffhanger where the traitors are deciding who to murder. And then the next morning. So they only know who was murdered based on who doesn't get into breakfast.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. Who doesn't show up to that phenomenal meal which if you pause it had some great pastries. There was a potato dish, there was some good eggs that were up there. Clearly juices from all around the world worth the price of admission right there at the castle, in my opinion. The trader breakfast.

[Will Friedle]

And then is it Dorinda that walked in and got applause?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, because she was kicked off first to the last episode and she's like, kind again. Never seen a Housewives in my life, but she's very likable. So I don't know if she was a good. Like a good housewife, if she was a good witch or a bad witch, but I think they liked her. And the Housewives, I have no idea.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I thought it was sweet that they like gave her this moment and she started crying. It was like, okay, well, you made it one night.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, she flew all the way to Scotland the last time. It was there like eight hours. And it's like they. Thanks. That's the other question is if you're kid. If you do get murdered or are kicked off the show, they have to make sure that you're. You don't tell anybody. So I imagine you're essentially sequestered for the next two weeks or however long.

[Will Friedle]

Are you kidding me? You have a vacation in Scotland to do nothing but hang out in a hotel. That's not.

[Ryder Strong]

No, they probably will not let you leave the hotel because then someone will take a picture of you and they'll know that you were kicked off the show. So you're probably in a hotel room not being able to leave for like 10 days. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

All right. The choices for to be murdered were Ian, who is a smart gamer Mark, which seemed kind of random to me.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Because he hadn't really spoken up or made a name for himself in any way.

[Ryder Strong]

No.

[Will Friedle]

And he can fox Eric the singer and then Eric the singer who. I don't know who he is, but he seemed very low key.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And I didn't understand why they, you know, I didn't know who to pick. I guess my only thought was like, Ian, because he seems like he's a gamer.

[Ryder Strong]

That's what I would think. Because again, at this point you're kind of throwing darts. Right. I mean, you don't really know any of these people. Nobody's formed any real alliances.

[Will Friedle]

But that's why I was confused that they. That the traders did not use this information. To try and figure out who the secret trader was.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Because they definitely picked four low key dudes. Like, there was no big personalities in here. Yeah, I, and I don't know what that really means, but they didn't even talk about it. They were just like. And then they. At breakfast, Ian didn't show up. And we got the sequence where he gets his little like, you know, murder card or whatever and he says it's kind of a backhanded compliment to be murdered. Which I thought was true.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like, yeah, you could be a threat. We haven't even started yet and you could be a threat. So it's time that you go. That makes sense.

[Will Friedle]

Right?

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think Michael Rapaport would have taken it as a, a sign of respect. I think he would have flipped over tables and smashed.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, he's, he's, he seems like an emotional.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, that's a good way to put it.

[Will Friedle]

An emotional baby.

[Ryder Strong]

An emotional player. Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, just tantrum after tan.

[Ryder Strong]

It was, it was.

[Will Friedle]

Just, it's like he talked about it at one point. He's like, I'm a trash talker. It's like, yeah, yeah, but can you, can you realize it's not working? Yeah, like at a certain point it's never going to be good for you, dude.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, they're just, they're going to vote you off whether they think you're a trait faithful or not. At some point they're going to be like, we don't really care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, agreed.

[Will Friedle]

And then Alan Cumming showed up in his very shiny outfit. This is fabulous. All metal, all the time.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it's perfect. Well, wait, I have a question. I have a question for you. First. You said at the beginning of the last episode or throughout the beginning of the first episode, you're the woman from Survivor that you liked. Who? Natalie. Natalie was was one of your favorites and so was Mark. Starting episode two, what you saw with episode one, has that changed at all? Are they still kind of your favorites or is anything changed for you between two and one?

[Will Friedle]

I guess I was starting to think that Jam. Jam really had a good shot at this point because he was playing a good social game. He seemed like he had people liking him and he was working hard. By the end of episode two, I did not feel the same way, but at this point I was like, oh, Jam, Jam's got a good shot. If he had one Survivor, which I didn't realize. He's a very likable person. He seemed like he was making A lot of friends at this point and, like, building the kinds of reputation you want, you know? But I mean, now having seen all three episodes, I'm much more like it's better to fly under the radar. I think so too early on. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I was a big fan of Rob C. By this point from Survivor, who seemed to be playing the game. Like, really playing the game.

[Will Friedle]

Well. Yeah. I felt right before he got murdered, I felt that way. Spoiler alert. Well, I mean, we're assuming in all three episodes have dropped. So everyone's. Yeah, yeah. Catching up. But yeah, no, I mean, like, I feel like the biggest. Like, the poorest player in my mind is. Is Porsche. Yes. Agreed. At this point. And I don't like the. Candace is playing way too hard.

[Ryder Strong]

I think I agree with you 100 and Michael, it's like those three are the worst. The worst players in my opinion. Or at least I guess saying it. Playing it not the way that I would play it. You're being very loud. You're being. It's like you don't ever. Especially if you're a traitor. I wouldn't imagine you'd want to be the center of attention.

[Will Friedle]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

Why would you do that? Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

You.

[Ryder Strong]

So you sow little seeds of doubt and you walk away. You do everything with a whisper. You shouldn't be yelling.

[Will Friedle]

All right. After breakfast, everyone dispersed. And then this is where the. The suspicion started to turn on Donna. You had Colton, Lisa, and Natalie talking about Donna being suspicious. I called this, like, what?

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, come on. She's the most suspicious I got.

[Will Friedle]

So ups. That's so funny because I was like, this poor woman is not a reality star.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

She's just like. Everyone's like, she's so low key. She's not, like, super talkative. So at this point, I was like, these, like, reality actory types, performative people just can't handle the fact that this woman isn't as, like, you know, performative as them. Isn't, like, playing hard or trying to get out there. She was just kind of just chill, you know, like a normal human being. And I was like, why are they picking on her?

[Ryder Strong]

Because she. You're coming into a thing where it's a game. You imagine that it moves very quickly. So I. They shoot over a week or 10 days, whatever it is, the entire season. And if you're there, you're quiet the whole time. You're not talking strategy at all.

[Will Friedle]

All.

[Ryder Strong]

You're not making any friends. You just. You stand out. You just. And. And.

[Will Friedle]

But she also already stands out. Because she's older than everybody.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

She's just. I don't know. I was just. I felt so sorry for her when they turned on her.

[Ryder Strong]

I knew it was going to happen. Well, because, again, she's the first one I would have picked to have been a secret trader. Very first one I would have picked would have been her.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Because it's amazing. She's. She's perfect. No one wants to vote for her because of the. The Swifties. Everyone loves her. She's the mom. She's probably the nicest person in the world.

[Will Friedle]

That's the first person I would have been exactly right. And I would have stuck my foot in it.

[Ryder Strong]

Here's the other thing I think, though, about this game. This game to me is like Jeopardy. In that I'll bet you everyone's graded it in their house. And then the second you get there, you're like, I suck at this. I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

I think you would thrive. I think.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know. I don't know if I would. I think it would be one of those things where I think I'd be a lot better than I actually would. I feel the same way with Jeopardy. I win Jeopardy. Every night. I bet you I'd stand with there with a buzzer in my hand and not get one right.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. All right. Also, during this period, Porsche slips up and says that she killed Ian, which is like, why did she say that?

[Ryder Strong]

I. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't know. And she clearly said it. Like, clearly said. Basically, when I was a traitor and killed, I was like, wait a minute.

[Will Friedle]

Wait, it was. Yeah. And at this point, I was like, oh, she's a secret traitor. I was thoroughly convinced. And like Ron and Donna's POV throughout the rest of this episode, I was totally on board with. I was like, why are not more people listening to this very obvious thing? Like, she mentioned that there's four traitors and says, you know, we killed Ian last night, or however she put it. And it's like, that's weird that this.

[Ryder Strong]

Is when I started to go like, oh, maybe it isn't Donna because she did this. Portia screwed up so badly a couple times that it's gotta be her.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So it. That wasn't. That wasn't good. And then we. As.

[Will Friedle]

As.

[Ryder Strong]

Then I start to. Then I started to flip flop because I was like, maybe. Maybe she's just not that good at this. I mean, she just misspoke because she's.

[Will Friedle]

Just bad at this. Yeah. Turns out that's the case. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, yes, that's what it is.

[Will Friedle]

I know. But I was like, I can't believe this person would actually be that bad.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

They were.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. No, I've been surprised with. With everything so far. I'm. I'm a really bad player of this game. On the mission, players on thrones, this was cool. This is where I just fell in love with the atmosphere. And, you know, I just. I was like, I'm so into this. I just want to go hang out in the woods by this castle. I love getting shields picking up money. God, it's just like Robin Hood, prince of thieves. I'm like, yeah. I want to be there every time.

[Ryder Strong]

They do the high shots. Driving in the cars through just the gorgeous Scottish islands. It's like, oh, my God. It's amazing. Amazing.

[Will Friedle]

All right. So I. Based on weight and size, they went with three smaller women, which makes sense.

[Ryder Strong]

Smart. Yep.

[Will Friedle]

So you had Candace, Caroline, and Tiffany. Candace being one of the traders but also being picked first was. And somebody pointed this out. Not a good call. You're definitely going to get swapped. There's no way you're going to be protected.

[Ryder Strong]

So.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Oh, and I should explain that if you were. You were in the throne at the arrival at the castle, you were protected from being murdered that night and you.

[Ryder Strong]

Had to find these little tokens. And if you found a token, you can swap, switch out. Right.

[Will Friedle]

But also you could share that token with whoever. Whomever you wanted to.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Which is smartly what people did. Yeah. Which is smart. So at the first stop, which was like an orchard, people were running around, found some tokens. Lisa swapped with Caroline. Dorinda swapped with Candace. Second stop, Caroline swapped with Tiffany. Mora swapped with Dorinda. All of this was like just kind of chaos. I'm not keeping track, really, of what's going on.

[Ryder Strong]

No. And I don't think you're supposed to. You run around, you try to find Beth Tags, you run back to whoever's on your team. It's very chaotic. There's no real rhyme or reason to any of their challenges. They just seem very frantic.

[Will Friedle]

Although this was when I started to realize that Colton is a really good player of this game.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedle]

I couldn't believe it either. He actually looked at the situation and explained it perfectly. He's like, you don't want to swap too early. So I'm not even going to look for tokens until the final stop. Which was brilliant. And guess who found a token and was able to save himself. It was the smartest move. Yeah. Because, like, if he had gotten it earlier, he's one of the bigger guys. People would have swapped with him immediately. So he was, like, two steps ahead.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

He has, like, knows what's going on.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, strength and brains. The guys kind of got the whole package for this game.

[Will Friedle]

Because then later we'll get into it. Like, his whole Donna thing, which I was like, dude, get off. The Donna turned out to be. Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. This guy knows what.

[Will Friedle]

He's the best player.

[Ryder Strong]

So he's a good. He's a really good player. Yeah, I agree.

[Will Friedle]

And then Rob found a token and gave it to Jam Jam. And Jam Jam swapped with Maura, who.

[Ryder Strong]

Did not like seeing her going, like, you know, don't.

[Will Friedle]

Don't do it. Don't do it. You're not gonna do it.

[Ryder Strong]

I was like, she's, like, begging, and it's like. And it was a little sad where it's like, dude, get off. Get out of the chair.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, it's like, come on.

[Will Friedle]

But then when they make it, Michael.

[Ryder Strong]

Dude, he runs over. Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And he just starts screaming at Yam Yam or about you. And it's our Jam Jam. And it's like, dude, he didn't do it against you.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, no, everything's about him. He's like, well, I thought it was going to be a discussion. No, they didn't say it was going to be a discussion. They said, whoever found the token.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Can swap. It wasn't. You then get to discuss who on your team who gets the token. No one ever said that.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So, yeah, it was. But again, you're right.

[Will Friedle]

Made it about him anymore. Why would. Why would Michael Rapper. Like, he just thinks that he's a victim.

[Ryder Strong]

He thought. Because I. I think. Think in his line of thinking, he was way more vulnerable than Jam Jam after the night before and everything that happened at the roundtable. So they should have discussed who was going to get the token and get on the seat, which, again, wait, what.

[Will Friedle]

Happened the night before at the round table?

[Ryder Strong]

Everyone was calling out different people, and Michael was one of the people called out just because he was. He's loud and brash.

[Will Friedle]

Wait, had they even had. I'm like, losing track. I don't know if we'd had a roundtable yet.

[Ryder Strong]

No, no, no. There's a murder. You're right. It's not the roundtable yet. No, they discuss it at the roundtable after.

[Will Friedle]

You're right.

[Ryder Strong]

We're right. My bad.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So that's.

[Will Friedle]

He literally made it all about him without.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm sorry, what it was. He thought he was vulnerable because they went and put a. Out of their way to put a coffin in his grave, but who cares? Exactly. But he took it personally to where it's like, I'm totally. I'm vulnerable because of that, so we should have discussed people, bro. Exactly. Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. So dumb. And like, Jam Jam got the thing, like, you know, he got the token. So go with it, man. Like, he can.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. You're also just putting a target on your back by being an ass.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like, what are you doing, dude? What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love. They kept. It was so big at times that everyone else was discussing, like, is he the. The. Like the best traitor in history? Because there's no way he can be a traitor, because who the hell would play it like this? Or is he just a really bad faithful? Like, they had no idea.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

Because he's so out of it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, you're right. There hasn't been a roundtable yet. You're right.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. No, that's why I was like, dude, you're just making it about you.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, because then, of course, the round table becomes about him. About him, and he's like, attacking Jam Jam. You're like, why?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Let it go, man. Yeah. And also at this point, like, you know, not knowing who the secret trader was, I was. I really didn't. I pretty. Jam Jam wanting to protect himself. Made sense. I was like, yeah, that makes him more likely a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

So you didn't think it was. Donna, if you had to put your money down at this point, who did you think the secret trader was?

[Will Friedle]

It's hard to remember, honestly.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Like, once. Once the conflict between Jam Jam and Michael got as heated as it did, I was like, maybe it is one of them.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Because they were. They. They kept going back to that same debate. I was like, you know, you got to let this go. And the fact that they kept getting into it. I was like, one of them is maybe just playing this too hard to try and deflect because, like, they. They felt that the crosshairs pointed at them, and so they had to point at the other. You know what I mean?

[Ryder Strong]

Like.

[Will Friedle]

Right. Which turned out to not be the case at all. That's the joy.

[Ryder Strong]

That's the joy. You just. You drop the grenade in the middle of the room and you walk away. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I'd be so bad. Like, it just protesting way too much.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, that was. That was a weird confrontation. And Even Alan Cumming was like, hey, why? This is something you could probably discuss at the Rabbit.

[Will Friedle]

We're still got a show to do here, guys.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, he's a. Again, I'm gonna give my flowers every week. Alan Cumming is a really engaging host. Yeah, he's very good at this. It's the fabulous thing and the kind of the, the subdued comedy. Oh, I think some of it's great.

[Will Friedle]

I like it, I like it. But it's very scripted. It like delivering.

[Ryder Strong]

But that's what I love.

[Will Friedle]

No, I know, but, but it's very different from like, like there's not as much hosting skill going on in terms of it's, it's acting skill. It's just like playing this funny, over the top character.

[Ryder Strong]

Is Survivor scripted? Is the host like, oh, he's so.

[Will Friedle]

That'S what's amazing is that he actually probst. Is that right? And he's still a genius. Like he, he's like one of the few hosts that when I watch it, I'm like, you deserve all the money and all the credit. And I'm sure he has an earpiece, but he is constantly engaging with people and having real. He runs the Tribal Councils and so he has to just roll with whatever they're giving him on an unscripted basis. And he is amazing because he's done.

[Ryder Strong]

It for what, 40 seasons or whatever the hell.

[Will Friedle]

He's always been great and everybody respects him, everybody listens to him. He's able to control the game, control the conversation without ever really taking a side or making it, you know, it's like basically a group therapy session every night. And he is so good at it. So I guess that is like the high bar that I'm sort of, you know. Whereas Alan Cumming, besides this little trying to calm it down, he's just a great entertainer.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

It's just about doing his thing.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[Will Friedle]

All right. So the group dispersed for dinner, really started zeroing in on Portia and Donna.

[Ryder Strong]

Did you see what they were having for dinner? Couldn't tell. It looked like a decent spread though. Looks like the food there is pretty amazing. I always like to check and then.

[Will Friedle]

They do like a whole follow up episode like a companion just on the.

[Ryder Strong]

Food at the castle and the kitchen. Because in the kitchen they have all the candy like around the kitchen area. Like everything's all set up. I'd like to, I'd like a tour of the food of the castle if we can get that. That'd be great.

[Will Friedle]

God, they must be offering like vacation packages for people to go to this castle. Like, live the trader's lifestyle, I'm sure.

[Ryder Strong]

Definitely. They probably run games there, like. Like that they'll play like a mafia or something in the castle, I'll bet you.

[Will Friedle]

Well, that's. I kept remembering, like, there. There are DND groups that do this where they go to castles and play D and D. And I. Because when I saw that roundtable, I was like, that's a perfect gaming table to have, like, a bit. How fun would it be to go play DND in a castle? Yeah. Like, has Critical Role done that where they film it?

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know if they've done that, but I'm sure they will.

[Will Friedle]

They should.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I'm sure they will.

[Will Friedle]

Going to someplace like. Like, if they were just playing DND on this show, I'd kind of be into it. I think I'd watch it because, like, I haven't watched Critical Role because they're all just kind of like sitting in.

[Ryder Strong]

A room, but it's great.

[Will Friedle]

But if they were like, at a castle and then you got to see them, like, I don't know. I'm kind of into it.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, well, we should put it together.

[Will Friedle]

All right, second roundtable begins. Natalie started the conversation calling out Donna, which I was like, poor Donna. This is where I'm like, what is going on?

[Ryder Strong]

I was starting to think maybe I was like, ageism.

[Will Friedle]

Ageism. And also, like, like, just because she's not a big, like, fancy dressed reality star, we're gonna pick on her. I was like, man, realism.

[Ryder Strong]

It's an ism against reals.

[Will Friedle]

It just felt. It just felt like bullying to me. Yeah. Then Ron brought up his very reasonable evidence.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. He came with receipts.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Yeah. But then Michael does the same freaking thing. He says, well, when we killed Ian.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt because I. I could tell by the way he was trying to. I was like, I gave him more of a benefit. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

That's what.

[Will Friedle]

I gave him more benefit of the Doubt than her. Like, she just said it apropos of nothing. I was.

[Ryder Strong]

And multiple times. Yes. She said a couple things.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But I couldn't believe that. Like, here they are presenting evidence about how you don't say that, and then he just does it. It's like, dude, watch. Watch yourself.

[Ryder Strong]

And then everyone was like, whoa, whoa. What did you just.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Would that have changed your mind? If you're sitting at that table and you heard Michael say, when we killed Ian, would you have changed Your vote. A, who would you have been voting for already? And B, would you have changed it because of Michael?

[Will Friedle]

Based on what was said at this table, there was no doubt in my mind that Porsche was the right vote.

[Ryder Strong]

I think I would have. I would have stuck with Portia, too.

[Will Friedle]

That would have been right.

[Ryder Strong]

I had switched from Donna to Porsche by that point because there were literal receipts. Like, okay, there's some actual evidence.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Everything else is really. And that's what's tricky about this game for me is, like, so much of it is really just vibes.

[Ryder Strong]

Innuendo. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And innuendo. And, like, I don't trust you. I trust you. And it's like, that's really hard. That's what I like about the fact that the secret traitor was unknown to us.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Because I feel like it's a little easy when you know who's a traitor and who's not to see them lying or to see them not lying. Whereas when you really don't know, like, we didn't these first couple episodes, I. I was pretty on board with the Porsche boat. I could.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, I was, too.

[Will Friedle]

There's no doubt in my mind. I was like, you can't just vote for her. So I was. I was genuinely shocked when she turned out to be a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

See, I. It was one of two things for me. I. I was like, okay, so she's the secret traitor or she's just really, really bad. Bad at this. And I. I didn't know which way to go. I was like, if she says she's a faithful or if she says she's a traitor, I'll be like, oh, okay. Yeah, they got her. I was like, but I'm kind of leaning towards the fact that she's just kind of bad at this.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. You know what? I don't even think it was that she said the, like, we killed Ian or I killed Ian thing. It was when she said that there were four traders.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. How do you know how many traders?

[Will Friedle]

That's when I was like, yeah. Oh, if they are not supposed to know, and if you were the secret trader, you would know that there were four because exactly what you said last episode, that they. They would have to have a list of four names.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Because then it was going to be. I was like, she knows. She know. I thought for sure we were. We were revealing the secret.

[Ryder Strong]

I was 50. 50. Bad player 50. But at the same time, for the first vote, if I don't know who it is and somebody does come with literal receipts where other People also chimed in, like, I heard her say that, too. How do you not vote for the person where there's receipts? I mean, there's some form of evidence.

[Will Friedle]

Yep. So there were some votes for Donna, which didn't make sense to me. Votes for Michael totally made sense. And then Portia, which is what exactly? What I. Who I would have voted for me, too. At this point in the game, I.

[Ryder Strong]

Think I would have to.

[Will Friedle]

Not even thought twice about it. And then she was banished. She goes to the.

[Ryder Strong]

Banished.

[Will Friedle]

Banished. Goes to the. The circle of honesty. What are.

[Ryder Strong]

The truth. The circle of truth.

[Will Friedle]

Circle of truth. And then she's a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

She's a faithful man. Yeah, man.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, she didn't really defend herself very well.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I just. Again, I don't think this was her game. And I, you know, didn't. Didn't speak well. Didn't form alliances, didn't play well, particularly in the challenges. Didn't defend herself properly at the table. She was the first out.

[Will Friedle]

Well, then the players broke into small groups to talk about the roundtable and started pointing fingers at Ron, saying, he is the traitor.

[Ryder Strong]

This is the thing about this game. Anytime somebody points out somebody else.

[Will Friedle]

But, dude, he had actual receipts, like you said. He wasn't saying, I think it's Portia, because I just have a feeling he was like, look, I overheard this, so I'm just gonna say, you know, if the choice is between Donna and this person. This person, we actually can say why. There's reasoning. That was, like, evidence.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I feel like Ron, at this point, I was like, ron is getting the short end of the stick. And I totally was to feel that way after all three of these episodes. I feel like he is being reasonable. He is. He is. He is expressing himself unemotionally. He's not pointing fingers needlessly. And he's. He's. He's doing it respectfully.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And no. And he's losing for it.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Like, actually turning on him.

[Ryder Strong]

And you saw the next day at breakfast when somebody said they're like, oh, well, it makes no sense that Ron didn't tell anybody. Anybody heard this thing. And Donna was the one who was like, well, he. No, he did tell some people. Yeah, he told me and Michael.

[Will Friedle]

He also said it at the round table.

[Ryder Strong]

I know, but even before. But they're saying, like, before. And, like, why before the roundtable would you. If you heard this, why would you not tell anybody? And it was. Donna was like, no, he did. He told me and he told Michael. The problem is people weren't trusting Donna and Michael at that point.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So it's like, then why does that matter?

[Will Friedle]

Well.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, oh, he told the other people we don't trust.

[Will Friedle]

Well, that's why you have to be super social in this game. You have to just get to know and just get to hang out with people, which I feel like the Housewives are very good at.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

They are socially engaging with everybody, and they're making everybody feel like they have some kind of connection. Because, I mean, the housewives really, they're killing it.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, if I know my housewife lore, which I don't, literally never seen an episode of Housewives in my life, but if I know anything about Housewives, it's a show about drunken backstabbing, which is what this is. I mean, you're literally. They just made a game. It might as well be called Find the Secret Housewife.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

You know what I mean? I mean, this is what they do for a living.

[Will Friedle]

Do you think social skills are more important than strategy?

[Ryder Strong]

Well, again, what's the strategy? Unless you're a trader, if you're faithful, is there a strategy? Because you're just. I'm going to be as honest as I can. I'm going to try to look for signals for other people. But what would your strategy be?

[Will Friedle]

I don't know. Because, like, at this point, from this point in the three episodes all the way through the end of the third one, I was like, this game is actually. There's no strategy. There's no. It's really just a game of popularity. It's just, like, people piling on. And I was really upset watching them pile on Donna, but then, boom. The hell do I know? My God, it's going to keep happening this whole season. It is.

[Ryder Strong]

It's crazy now if they're smart. Well, we'll get it. We'll get into that next episode. We'll get into it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, at this point, the traitors receive letters that they have to murder someone in plain sight. So is this a thing that happens? Yeah. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, this is. This is. This happens occasionally. They up the antes with the murders. It can't just be. You meet and you decide who you're gonna kill.

[Will Friedle]

I like this factor. I like that they have to, like, really lie to each other and do things in front of other people or, like, because that. That's where the strategy and the socialization really have to, like, it's either or from moment to moment. Like, and at this point, like, you know, when. When Candace does her conga line. Oh, I was just like that. And even before she does it, she's talking about different things that she could be doing. She's like, do I have a breakdown? Because Portia laughs and I was like, I hate you so, so much. But then she said it best, but she's like, sometimes being a little extra is in your benefit. I'm like, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes, you are.

[Will Friedle]

You're going to get away with shit that, like, I would not be able to get away with. Or even Rob the traitor, her partner.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Wouldn't have been able to do.

[Will Friedle]

He wouldn't have been able to distract people like that if he suddenly do a conga line. But because she has a personality where people kind of expect that or buy that, she can get away with a lot of. A lot. And she's. So. At this point, I was like. I went from thinking, candace is a really bad player who's not going to last. You know, who's not going to like, oh, my God, she might be. She might go far.

[Ryder Strong]

This is where Rob C. Became a champion to me, where he was just like, okay, who? First he was like, I think they're doing a murder in plain sight. Like, he's called it. He's like, I think it's happened.

[Will Friedle]

No, nailed it.

[Ryder Strong]

And then was like, who started the conga line?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, instantly went there. Yeah, it was brilliant. It was brilliant.

[Will Friedle]

I was so impressed with him. Yeah. At this point, he had flown under the radar for me, you know? Cause they don't. They didn't highlight his personality. They were, you know. But when he, like, was suspicious and paranoid at exactly the right time, he's like, don't.

[Ryder Strong]

Don't let him hug you. Don't let him hand you a glass. Don't let him do anything. He's, like, staying behind the wall as something's going on. Brilliant. This guy would have won the whole thing had he not been killed. He was my. The second he went. I think they're doing a murder in plain sight. I'm like, that's your winner.

[Will Friedle]

But do you think that's why they picked him?

[Ryder Strong]

Do you think they know? Because they didn't know that at the time.

[Will Friedle]

They didn't know that I know.

[Ryder Strong]

They just know that he won Survivor. He was good at survival.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

They so lucky.

[Will Friedle]

They.

[Ryder Strong]

They so lucky.

[Will Friedle]

They got so lucky because I didn't know who they picked. And I'm sitting there going, man, if they didn't pick Rob, they are screwed.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. Because at the next banishment, he would have been like, who Starts a conga line.

[Will Friedle]

Yep. Like, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

You did. That was straight up a distraction. And that's another piece of evidence. And then never had to say it, because they managed to pick him. And they're. They're picking off the gamers, which is what I would do too, by the way. It's like, oh, you're. You do reality TV show gaming. You gotta go first. I'll deal with the housewives next. Like, you gotta go first.

[Will Friedle]

Now, the other Rob, the traitor Rob robber, was very smart, setting up that chess situation.

[Ryder Strong]

Really good.

[Will Friedle]

I was like, wow, this is because. So he and Lisa got to sit there.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And basically in plain sight.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

Figure out who they were going to kill.

[Ryder Strong]

Really smart. Really smart.

[Will Friedle]

So the traitors. All three of the traitors did really well with this thing.

[Ryder Strong]

I think so, too. This was their best episode so far of just working together.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, she didn't get to weigh in on who they killed, which I found interesting.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, but they killed the right person for her because that guy would have pointed a finger right at her. So it worked perfectly for her.

[Will Friedle]

See, I wonder. So they have no idea until the episode airs that all that was happening.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. No, I mean. I mean, they might have talked to each other in the tower, like, hey, what did you do? But no. Right.

[Will Friedle]

But I mean, they didn't know that if they didn't hear Rob saying, I think they're trying to murder someone in plain sight.

[Ryder Strong]

No, she told him later, remember? She's like, he came up to me and said, you're performing a murder in plain sight. And they're like, what? Yeah. So, I mean, that's. That's the guy who. Oh, they also can't talk to each other when they're not filming, by the way. Oh. So they're not allowed to speak while not filming. Are there phones taken from them, I wonder?

[Dolores]

Yes, there is, actually. I remember Dolores told us last season or someone that they are allowed a phone call to, like, one person. So, like, Will, you'd only call Sue.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Dolores]

And only sue can know. And they're actually monitoring your call as well. So what happened with.

[Ryder Strong]

God.

[Dolores]

Dylan has said before that, like, he. Because his girlfriend knows, like, all the housewives, and so she was like, oh, my God, I know this person. And he couldn't really respond on what it was. And there's someone listening in.

[Ryder Strong]

Jeez, that's crazy.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I gotta figure out who.

[Ryder Strong]

I'll call.

[Will Friedle]

I'll be your one phone call.

[Ryder Strong]

Sue will love that.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, we'll speak in code.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

You can relay to me.

[Ryder Strong]

I'll be like, hey, the eagle murdered that one guy from Love from the Housewives last night. And then no one will be able to pick us up.

[Will Friedle]

We're clever people. Wow. All right. Well, they started playing chess, decided how to murder in some weird coded speak that didn't quite make sense to me, but they got it across.

[Ryder Strong]

They figured it out. Yep.

[Will Friedle]

And threw the card into the fire.

[Ryder Strong]

They did it. Yeah, but they did it. They. They accomplished their mission. We should also say one of the. Or the. The prize for completing the murder in Plain Sight was getting to meet the Secret. The. The Secret Traitor. So that's why they wanted to do it. It wasn't just that they got to kill somebody. They also got to Face to face meet the Secret Trader. And I have a theory about why that happened so quickly.

[Will Friedle]

What do you mean?

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think they ever would have unmasked the Secret Traitor in episode three, or it really turned out to be episode two if this. If whoever was the Secret Trader was flying under the radar. But the Secret Trader they picked had the second most number of votes. And all the producers knew that the Secret Trader was going to be outed anyway, so they had to do every. Yep. They had to. This would have been. Because I was like, wow, this is season episode two. We already get to know who the Secret Trader is. And that's only because the Secret Trader was about to die. And if the Secret Trader was flying totally under the radar, they would have gone five episodes before we ever knew who the Secret Trader was. I'm convinced, because why would you do that? You gain nothing by putting the Secret Trader out there. But they knew, and everybody knows now. It was Donna. They knew that Donna had the most votes. They've got cameras on everybody. They hear people talking. They know 10 people are going to vote for Donna. Let's do this now. So at least we have a chance of having some of the. Who's it going to be? Who's it going to be? Who's it going to be? Because the producers already knew the Secret Trader was dead.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So had. Had it not. Had it been somebody nobody suspected, this would have been five episodes before they unveiled the Secret Trader. I'm confused.

[Will Friedle]

It would have been better.

[Ryder Strong]

I think way better. So what I'm guessing is going to happen because they did something similar last year. My guess is Alan's going to come up to them, he's going to appear in the Tower in another episode or two, and he's gonna look at them and says and say, by the way, I picked a new secret trader and you don't know who it is, and we're gonna start all over again. And he approached some. He'll have approached somebody else to take that position and a new trader will have joined the ranks that we don't know who it is.

[Will Friedle]

Because it's a really good dynamic.

[Ryder Strong]

It's a great dynamic.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Because I feel like the. The show is. Is in some ways more self satisfying when you know who every. Who the bad guys are.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

But it's more exciting and way more exciting to be guessing yourself.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep. Because I've seen now both versions I've seen where you know everybody.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And now the version where you don't. And all I was thinking about the whole time sue and I were talking about is, ooh, who's the secret trader? Who do you. It could be that could be them. Could be them. So they'll bring that back in some form before the season's over.

[Will Friedle]

All right. So going back, because we actually didn't say who the four choices that the secret trader gave them to murder.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, right.

[Will Friedle]

It was monetary. Rob C. Tara and Kristen.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. Which again, some weird choices.

[Will Friedle]

I know you would have. You. You would have picked Rob c based on 100 said during the chat. But would you. Do you think you would have chosen that?

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Before really somebody.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. He's a gamer who does strategy and has won one of these games before. Get rid of them. Just get rid of those guys.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Because everybody else again. And this, you know, knowing now that it was Donna, she wasn't really playing well.

[Ryder Strong]

No, she's playing very poorly.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Because she, you know, those first four picks were kind of just, you know, random. Random. Yeah. And like, really, at this point, shouldn't she have been picking people who were calling her out?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

You think she'd already done a roundtable. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

But then that's the other thing is like, do you. If you pick four people that called out Donna.

[Will Friedle]

No, but what she should have done is, is, is the list should have been jam. Jam Michael. Yeah. And maybe two other people that were, you know, speaking out.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

A lot. Because if, let's say maybe died, everybody would turn to Michael. Right. Or vice versa. Right. So like, if she had put them on the list and, you know, instead she picked people who, as far as we know, only seeing the finished edit, did not speak up that much.

[Ryder Strong]

I agree.

[Will Friedle]

So she was just playing really poorly.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Right. I also think they did her dirty. They should have made Her a faithful. And they should have let her last on the show as long as she lasts on the show because it would have just been better for her to play as a faithful, I think, than as the secret traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I think you're. You know, the fact that you called it right away, that you were like, oh, she's the secret trader.

[Ryder Strong]

She's perfect.

[Will Friedle]

And they all did means. That means that the producers were probably not giving the contestants or the audience as. As much credit as they should have.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

You know what I mean? Like, the producers were thinking. They were like, do this tricky thing and give it to, like, the. And it's like, little old lady who nobody would suspect. And it's like.

[Ryder Strong]

But that's so why you suspect them. Exactly. Whereas you give it to, like, Mark Ballas or Kristen somebody who. Or the. Or Eric, the singer who kind of, frankly, nobody really knows who this guy is and is just quiet and flying under the radar. That's somebody that.

[Will Friedle]

Then I feel like with Rob R. They did.

[Ryder Strong]

They did that.

[Will Friedle]

Somebody who's, like, probably gonna really not be suspected for a long time. Yeah. Right. But I think, you know, this is the fun, is that they could have gone the exact opposite and picked, like, Michael Rappaport because he's so obnoxious. It would be. That's what they're saying. That's what they're saying.

[Ryder Strong]

They're like, he can't be a traitor. You can't be a traitor. You're too much of a dick. Like, nobody would play it like this. So. Yeah, you don't know. You don't know. That's the thing. That's so crazy. Yeah. Nuts.

[Will Friedle]

All right, well, that's it for this episode of Pod Meets twirled. Alliances were tested, trust misplaced, and once again, we're left with a cliffhanger. Join us next time as we continue our journey through season four of Traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.