Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 403

Summary

Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 403

Podcast: Pod Meets World
Hosts: Will Friedle & Ryder Strong
Release Date: January 17, 2026
Episode Theme: A lively recap and analysis of The Traitors Season 4, Episode 3, as the hosts dissect gameplay, alliances, strategies, and notable personalities from the hit reality competition—through the lens of friendship, skepticism, and their own hypothetical participation.

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Will Friedle and Ryder Strong dive deep into Episode 3 of The Traitors Season 4. The pair brings their humorous, self-aware banter to explore the psychological gamesmanship, social dynamics, and wardrobe choices that make the show so addictive. Their commentary moves from personal hypotheticals (“Could we play and win?”) to strategic analysis and hilarious tangents, promising insight for superfans and newcomers alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Takes on Playing The Traitors

• Ryder and Will discuss how they’d fare as contestants, touching on trust, personality clashes, and hypotheticals of them both joining the show.
  • Ryder: “I couldn’t handle this. My wheels would be spinning in my head...I would have so much discomfort.” (05:12)
  • Both agree: playing as a “best friend” duo would change their willingness to join.
  • The difficulty of lying, especially to a friend, becomes a recurring theme:
    • Will: "What if we reversed it? Could you lie to me?”
    • Ryder: “No. You know, I couldn’t. I’d just be like, Will, I’m totally a traitor. Just please don’t vote for me, and I won’t kill you.” (08:32–08:40)

2. Game Integrity and Strategies

• Deliberation on the show’s rules: Can traitors reveal themselves to faithful players and form unusual alliances?
  • Will: "Isn’t the game just to lie, cheat and steal until you win?" (09:43)
  • They discuss theoretical scenarios (traitor and faithful collaborating, splitting prize money), voting tactics, and what makes for compelling drama versus game-breaking loopholes.

3. Episode Recap (Traitors 4x03) and Noteworthy Moments

• Rob C. Is “Murdered”
  • The hosts recap how Alan Cumming theatrically reveals Rob’s fate, commending the show's drama:
    • Will: "Looks like he’s not a survivor." (12:12)
• Iconic Wardrobe
  • Extended riff on Alan Cumming's "melted candle" (giant yellow Big Bird-esque) outfit:
    • Will: “It’s like they took a Big Bird suit and melted it down...and made that an outfit.” (12:32)
    • Ryder: “Literal vomit...Disgusting. Misstep.” (13:00)
• Michael Rapaport’s Gameplay
  • Analysis of Michael Rapaport’s aggressive strategy and the tension with Jam Jam:
    • Ryder: “At this point in the episode, Rapaport was just going nuts on Jam Jam. This is where he started this whole trash talker thing...for no reason.” (18:22)
    • Will: “He made Rappaport look like even more of a douche by just not really engaging.” (18:39)
• Tiffany & Michael’s Alliance
  • Tiffany using social strategy: keeping Michael close, even though it could be a liability.
• Donna’s Banishment Twist
  • Riders and Will express shock and self-reflection over Donna being revealed as a traitor after being on the defensive:
    • Ryder: “I would have probably lectured everybody about how obnoxious they're being, how ageist they're being. I had no instincts that she was the traitor.” (21:35)
  • Natalie is credited for insightful deduction ("You're a perfect secret traitor" – 22:12).
• Mission Challenge: “Wicker Manish with cages”
  • The challenge gets described in detail (skulls, marshes, trusting your partner, the specter of sabotage).
  • Johnny Weir’s Struggles:
    • Will: “About four minutes in, you heard him. You went, 'ahhh.'” (27:23)
    • Ryder: “Truly pathetic...he showed up after 10 minutes and had not even, like, come on.” (27:15)
  • Discussion of how the physical challenge could be sabotaged by traitors, opening up more layers of suspicion.

4. Meta-Commentary on the Format

• The hosts geek out about format changes—the inclusion of both celebrities and “normal” people for the next season:
  • Ryder: “I think I would rather watch normal people. Why?...the celebrity factor is definitely playing into this.” (14:02–14:55)

5. Predictions + Who Will Win?

• Strategic speculation about who will be murdered/banished next, and who’s most likely to win the whole season:
  • Will and Ryder agree that Ron will probably be banished soon — more valuable for the traitors to eliminate people no one expects.
  • Both hosts put forward favorites:
    • Ryder: “I'm still believing. I'm a believer in Natalie.” (41:16)
    • Will: “I also think…there’s a chance that Dorinda makes it to the end.” (42:32)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Personal Strategy:

  “I’m actually really...pretty damn good at poker. But it’s because I don’t have any strategy. I just never bluff.”
  — Ryder Strong (07:00)

• On Trust:

  “If we both got into this and you ended up being a traitor and I trusted you—oh, you would...emotionally, I would be in so much therapy.”
  — Ryder Strong (08:08)

  “What if we reversed it? Could you lie to me?”
  — Will Friedle (08:32)

• On Alan Cumming’s Big Bird Outfit:

  “It’s amazing. Disgusting. Genius. Brilliant. It’s like they took a Big Bird suit and melted it...”
  — Will Friedle (12:32)

• On Donna’s Elimination:

  “I was very upset with the show…I just thought it was like a bunch of celebrities picking on a...non-performative on-camera personality...I was so wrong. Cause she was a traitor.”
  — Ryder Strong (21:03)

• On Challenge Strategies:

  “If you’re a traitor and you partner up with somebody that you want to get out, it would be a great way to...‘I can’t find the skulls!’...Now you’re up for murder.”
  — Will Friedle (25:01)

• On Potential Game Outcomes:

  “I'm still believing. I'm a believer in Natalie...she's not going to piss people off.”
  — Ryder Strong (41:16)

  “There’s a chance that Dorinda makes it to the end too this year...she’s flying under the radar.”
  — Will Friedle (42:32)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Personal Hypotheticals and Playing The Traitors — 02:49–06:40
• Reality Game Strategy & Integrity — 09:07–14:01
• Wardrobe Riff (“Melted Candle” outfit) — 12:12–13:10
• Michael Rapaport vs. Jam Jam Drama — 18:22–18:49
• Donna’s Roundtable Defense & Secret Traitor Reveal — 20:19–21:50
• Challenge Recap (Skulls, Marsh, Cages) — 23:01–30:00
• Pair Breakdown and Social Strategies — 33:25–36:51
• Speculation on Next Eliminations & Winner Predictions — 37:10–42:53

---

Final Thoughts

Will and Ryder’s dynamic brings the episode alive, mixing earnest strategic analysis with comic relief and self-deprecation. Their open discussion about trust, betrayal, and “what if” scenarios makes this episode a must-listen for fans wondering what it’s really like inside the head of a reality TV contestant—and those who love dissecting every twist of The Traitors. The episode closes with both hosts picking their “winner” predictions, and their usual Shakespearean nod to the show’s themes:

“As Shakespeare said in his Scottish play: 'Fair is foul, and foul is fair.'” (42:55)

Next Episode: The drama and betrayals continue as alliances fray and the castle grows ever more suspicious...

---

Transcript

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

Welcome to Pod meets Twirled, a podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away. Experts. So now we turn to Traitors, another show I've never seen. But Will is convinced that he could win. We are Will Friedle and Ryder Strong, two best friends, one a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars join us as we step into a castle full of lies, alliances, and over the top wardrobe choices. This is Pod meets Trading Places. How's it going, Will?

[Will Friedle]

It's going well, Ryder.

[Ryder Strong]

How are you? I'm good. We are. We are so deep into traitors because these three episodes drop right in a row. Yeah, Yeah. I feel like I've already seen a whole season of a reality show.

[Will Friedle]

They suck in. They suck in. And it's a little. Especially after three. It's a little exhausting. Yeah, it's.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, there's a lot of characters. I mean, I feel like as much as we've already talked for two hours about the first two episodes, we still haven't covered, like, we've mostly focused on four people.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

There's whole.

[Will Friedle]

But I think that's normal with a lot of. I think with a lot of reality shows. Well, I mean, you watch Survivor. Is it the same kind of thing? Do you start with 20 some odd people and you go from there or.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, yeah. Well, Survivor has like, you know, tribes. So there's a distinct sense of like, oh, well, there's three tribes to begin with or two at least. Sometimes there's three, but you get a sense of those tribal, personal and whether they're succeeding or not together as a group. So it's more about like, which group dynamic do you identify and think is cool or interesting or whatever. Whereas in this case, besides when they got in those boats in the first episode, there hasn't been really a reason to group together.

[Will Friedle]

No, it's really all for one and one for all in this. Yeah, no, it's not even one for all. It's just all for one.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

No one for. It's a solo thing. That's what I'm saying. But you do you finish three episodes of this and I didn't trust anything my wife was saying to me. I didn't trust my mail person. I just. I was like, what do you mean by that? What. What does that mean.

[Ryder Strong]

When you said the letter is for me? Did you kill Ian?

[Will Friedle]

Did you? Did You Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

What.

[Will Friedle]

What does that mean? Sir and. Or madam? Yes. I don't trust anybody. Don't trust them.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I. Yeah, that's why I couldn't handle this. I would be like. My wheels would be spinning in my head. I would have so much discomfort, and I would just be like, get me out of here.

[Will Friedle]

So is this another one where if they called you and said, we want you to be on Traders, you'd say no?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I do this in a second way quicker than. I mean, I would consider it way more than I would Dancing with the Stars.

[Will Friedle]

What if, like, Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski, and I'm going to let our audience decide which one of us is Johnny and which one of us is Tara. What about if they invited us both to go on together?

[Ryder Strong]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I do do it, too.

[Ryder Strong]

Then. I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Will Friedle]

I would do it, too.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I think it's the fact my personality would probably. Like, I just. I would stick out. I feel like I would either be way too quiet and, like, on my own and annoying to people in that regard, or just, you know, like, what's up with that guy? And I'd get voted off because I was being too shy and quiet, or the, like, switch would be flipped in my brain and I'd be like, oh, I can beat this. I can do. And then I would be way too aggressive and way too pretentious, and they would vote me out just for being a obnoxious, and I would make it all about me, you know, Like, I kind of. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I think. I think I would. I think I'd be Michael Rapper, which maybe means I should start voting for him and really thinking, like. Yeah, because I. I do kind of feel for him. I know he's messing it up, but he can't help himself.

[Will Friedle]

He can't.

[Ryder Strong]

Just can't help.

[Will Friedle]

He absolutely can't. And we know for a fact by this point that he's a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So it's just. He's. He's just very aggressive.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

It's a different style of playing. The. I'm gonna. I'm gonna yell at you until you either vote me off or I win. That's just. That's it. Yeah. Very strange.

[Ryder Strong]

So I'm actually really. I'm. I'm pretty damn good at poker.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

But it's because I don't have any strategy. I just never bluff.

[Will Friedle]

Wow. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

So I don't play until I have a really good hand, and then I. But everyone assumes I'm bluffing. And so I clean up. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a different stretch. It's just, like, I've just learned how to play, and I just never bluff. But if you assume that I might be bluffing because I bet big, I'm like, I'm all in. And you're like, what? How can you be all in when you only. But I'm like, reading the table, and I'm like, no, that's. I think I have the best hand. Of course, I do get burned every once in a while, but in general, I've done very well by just sort of not bluffing, because I just get so uncomfortable with the idea of bluffing. Like, I don't want to get caught in that position.

[Will Friedle]

I don't play poker, but I'm pretty damn good at Candy Crush, and I don't know if that would help me in any way in this game.

[Ryder Strong]

No, no.

[Will Friedle]

But I can lie and I can play Candy Crush. I'd really just go to Scotland for the food because it looked like their spreads pretty great.

[Ryder Strong]

See, if we both got into this and you ended up being a traitor and I trusted you, oh, you would.

[Will Friedle]

Imagine that by the end, I would be.

[Ryder Strong]

Emotionally, I would be in so much therapy, I'd be like, no, Will and I had a code. Like, there was a sense of we would have. Like, I would be like, I would be so devastated.

[Will Friedle]

Or I just lied to you the whole time.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, you'd have to, right? That's literally your job.

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Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And I would fall for it because I would just be like, I love you. You would never lie to me.

[Will Friedle]

What if we reversed it? Could you lie to me?

[Ryder Strong]

No. You know, I couldn't. I'd just be like, will, I'm totally a traitor. Just please don't vote for me, and I won't kill you.

[Will Friedle]

And I'll be like, all right, that's fair.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

But see, that's a fair alliance. I wonder if that's.

[Ryder Strong]

That's.

[Will Friedle]

That's what I'm wondering. Can you do that? Because that's a fair.

[Ryder Strong]

That's a fair. On camera.

[Will Friedle]

Not that I know.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, I am a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

No, not that I know. Except for when they have to ask. Like, last season, one of them asked another one to join them as traders. So they came up and they said, I'm a trader. Do you want to join me? And it's like, if they said no, then I think they murdered, but there's no way.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, so if you and I were on it and you were a trader, right? There's no way, there's no benefit for me like you coming to me and saying, I'm a trader, but let's keep it secret and let's play the game because I can't win if you're still around.

[Will Friedle]

That's true. I also wouldn't be able to tell you who the other traders were where. It's like, let's vote. I mean, I guess I could if the strategy is a trader of the traders. That's what I'm saying is you and I then just vote off all the rest of the traders and then we get to the finals and then we just agree to split the money.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, that totally goes against the rules of the game, doesn't it?

[Will Friedle]

I don't know. Isn't the game just to lie, cheat and steal until you win?

[Ryder Strong]

This is bound to happen at some point.

[Will Friedle]

Why wouldn't it? This is why Tara Lipinski and Johnny.

[Ryder Strong]

Weir are telling there must be a rule. That's if you're a traitor, you can't reveal that to anybody. Faithful, other faithful. That there might be a rule.

[Will Friedle]

Maybe because it'd be too good.

[Ryder Strong]

Then there'd be like double crossings on double crosses. Do you know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

But that wouldn't. They love that as the show. They would love that as the show, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But if it really ruins the integrity of the game, like why this is.

[Will Friedle]

You're still stabbing, you're still backstabbing and lying and cheating and stealing. You're just doing it with a different alliance, right? One faithful, one trader get together to take out everybody else.

[Ryder Strong]

But then there's no way that faithful benefits in the end.

[Will Friedle]

Because unless you decide to split the money. Because at the end, if there's one trader left, that person gets all the money.

[Ryder Strong]

All the money?

[Will Friedle]

All the money. So if you go in kind of saying, dude, we'll make it to the end, I win all the money and I'll give you after the fact.

[Ryder Strong]

You'll just give me half?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I'll give you half.

[Ryder Strong]

It seems like it should be illegal.

[Will Friedle]

It does. But I wonder if it is. I mean, that's the question, right? They might love it. I mean, because that's really. It's great drama. Great. Just who where it's the traitor forming his own alliance with a faithful. That's a friend or a group of faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

Why isn't a traitor do that with a group of faithful?

[Will Friedle]

Like you could. You totally could.

[Ryder Strong]

So that's never happened where a trader's gone to faithful and been like, hey, guys, I know who the other traders are. Let's vote them out.

[Will Friedle]

I don't think so. I also wonder if you can just flat out, because if that's the case, if you are allowed to tell people, I wonder why nobody's been to the roundtable and just been like. Just flat out lied. Been like, Michael told me he was a traitor. He told me flat out he was a traitor. So either believe him or believe me, but I'm telling you at breakfast, it wasn't a slip. He told me flat out I am a traitor. And I'd love to start an alliance with you for us to take everybody out. Couldn't you do that?

[Home Instead / NYX / CVS Advertiser]

Right?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. There's got to be a rule about this, man.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I would. I would guess there would be, too, because it'd be too easy to use it to your advantage.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

But who knows?

[Ryder Strong]

All right, continuing into episode three, where we learn at the round table that Rob C. Was. Was murdered.

[Will Friedle]

Smart.

[Ryder Strong]

Murdered in plain sight.

[Will Friedle]

Smart.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, wait, this is it. At the round table. No, that's at breakfast.

[Will Friedle]

No, no, it's at breakfast that we find this out.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, Sorry, I, I. In my notes, I said at the round table. It was at breakfast. Rob C. Was murdered in plain sight. I love how Alan come and just, like, throws their portraits to the ground.

[Will Friedle]

Some kind of quip, and then it's like, looks like he's not a survivor.

[Ryder Strong]

Now, is this, Is this where the. The melted candle outfit made its appearance?

[Will Friedle]

Because next, I think. Or it is. I don't know when it is, but it's just like a giant yellow. It's like, somebody talk about that. It's brilliant. It's somebody brilliant or genius.

[Ryder Strong]

Just disgusting.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, amazing. Disgusting. Genius. Brilliant. It's like they took a big bird suit and melted it down in all the plastic and then just made that an outfit.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? Genius. Okay. Yeah. So this is, this is. I wrote down Big Bird outfit. This is it, man. He's. He was. It was like, what's happening? And then in the next scene, during the roundtable, I was looking at. It was like, ooh, it's like it's melted wax. It looked like vomit.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Literal vomit.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Great.

[Ryder Strong]

No, misstep. Misstep. He did.

[Will Friedle]

So I said to Sue, I was like, it just looks like he's wearing a melted candle.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

There was no.

[Ryder Strong]

And. And there's no logic to it. There was no like, even.

[Home Instead / NYX / CVS Advertiser]

I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

He's big into yellow. He's bearing on wearing a Lot of yellow this season, by the way. Just going back to what we were talking about, about you and I going on the show together. An interesting season would be having best friends on the show, like pairs, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Another thought I had. What about doing a show with just completely. Nobody's like, just normal everyday people.

[Will Friedle]

Well, no, they're doing that.

[Ryder Strong]

They're doing that.

[Will Friedle]

Didn't you see the ads?

[Ryder Strong]

No.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, no, there's ads in between here that are saying we're, you know, on NBC this year. Just regular people sign up or doing traders with just regular people this year.

[Ryder Strong]

That is brilliant. That makes me so happy.

[Will Friedle]

That's how they did it in the uk, apparently.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, that's great because I think that the, The. The celebrity factor is definitely playing into this.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

In a way that, like, changes the game, you know, or just makes it a very specific style of game.

[Home Instead / NYX / CVS Advertiser]

I would.

[Ryder Strong]

I think I would rather watch normal people. Why?

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Season one had celebs and normal and normal people. Okay. I think it shouldn't be a combo. No, it should be either celebs or normal. And I think they should continue with both because I want to be on one, but they also, I think seeing normal people. And then you get people that are like game strategists.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

This guy was in the military. This woman did this. That she was an astronaut. Like, super smart.

[Ryder Strong]

Or you get people like, on Survivor who lie about their profession because they're like, they'll be like lawyers. Like lawyers on Survivor never admit that they're a lawyer. They're always like, I'm a plumber. And.

[Will Friedle]

Really?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, because they get targeted otherwise. Because if you were like, I'm a game strategist, they would do it. Like they have been in this. Like, so what people. You could lie about that. You could be like, oh, I'm, you know, this person from the south. And I mean, you're like a NASA scientist with like a smart. Yeah, no, it's.

[Will Friedle]

You're the guy who invented the game Secret Nazi.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

That guy. Because you'd never admit that.

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

So at this point in the episode, Rapaport was just going nuts on Jam Jam. This is where he started this whole trash talker thing. I'm like, dude, at breakfast. Yes, at breakfast. Like, for no reason.

[Will Friedle]

Talking trash over Jam.

[Ryder Strong]

Jam's not giving it back. He's just kind of rolling his eyes. And I was like, dude, let it go, man.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, he made Rappaport look like even more of a douche by just not really engaging. And everybody else was like, God, dude, just shut up. Yeah, it was nuts.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. Then they went to some pow wows. Oh, well, first we had the round table, I guess. Let me see.

[Will Friedle]

No, that's at breakfast. He told them Alan Cumming told them there was going to be a round table and a banishment right before the.

[Ryder Strong]

Child throughout the castle.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And this is where Tiffany and Michael went into that secret room, which is the coolest thing. Does everybody know about this?

[Will Friedle]

Like, there's just a secret room. It's been in other seasons as well. Yeah, the secret room.

[Ryder Strong]

And this is where Tiffany started to, like, really pop for me as a player because she's doing this thing where she's going to keep Michael close.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. She thinks he's a traitor. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which, I mean, it's kind of a good strategy, maybe, but it also, like, makes her look bad because no one's liking him.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So I feel like she's limiting her social options. She's, you know, playing strategy, but I don't know. And then this is where Donna started. Everyone just started saying they were going to go for Donna, and I was like, why?

[Will Friedle]

Come on, she's bad.

[Ryder Strong]

Picking on her.

[Will Friedle]

She's not picking on her. That was. Was necessary. And this is also when the producers knew. They absolutely knew she was gonna go. So it was like.

[Ryder Strong]

So you think they adjusted the 100%?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, absolutely 100%. Because if she was flying so under the radar, they would have kept the secret trader a secret for five episodes. Six episodes. So to do it in the beginning of episode three, I was so bummed.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so then we went to the roundtable and, you know, Donna tried to defend herself. She didn't.

[Will Friedle]

She just kept saying, like, I'm. I'm just tongue tied because I'm such a fan of all of you.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm a fan. Right. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

She was Trying that, and it wasn't really working.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I would say between her choices as the secret trader and this moment, she really did not play very well.

[Will Friedle]

I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

I agree, unfortunately. But I mean, she was picked for her. Her, you know, identity, you know, for the fact that she would be the last person anyone would suspect and they clearly wanted to pick her right off the bat. So sweet, too. She just seems so nice. Yeah, yeah. Michael and Jam. Jam went at it. My God. And then everyone but Michael voted for Donna. And this is where I was like, if you.

[Will Friedle]

If you're a traitor, clap your hands. And I was like, oh, God. If you stop, it's like, oh, dude.

[Ryder Strong]

But seriously, at this point, I was very upset with the show. I was like, yeah, well, I. I just thought it was like a bunch of celebrities picking on a. More like a non. Like, she's not a performative on camera personality. Everyone else is to some degree. And they're all like. I just felt like they were pouncing on somebody because they could. And I was like, man, they're gonna get screwed. But I was so wrong. I was so wrong. Cause she was a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

So were you shocked when she was like, I'm a traitor?

[Ryder Strong]

Shocked. Absolutely shocked. Just. I mean, man, I just. I would have walked right into that trap. I would have been. I would have been defending her.

[Will Friedle]

Donna, let me tell you all the secrets. I know.

[Ryder Strong]

I would have probably lectured everybody about how obnoxious they're being, how ageist they're being. I would have been the Donna defender. I had no instincts that she was the traitor. And I just felt like they were picking on her because she wasn't like a slick TV personality. Oh, no.

[Will Friedle]

I think it was it Vanessa. What's the name of the woman you like from Survivor?

[Ryder Strong]

Natalie.

[Will Friedle]

Natalie. Natalie was the one who's like, you're. You're a perfect, perfect, you know, secret trainer.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. And she kept saying that. And I was like, but that's not. That's not fair. Like, don't hold that against her. But they were right. They were right.

[Will Friedle]

Natalie was wearing the Seinfeld outfit, I think, where they literally make fun of that. It's like she's just wearing a bra and a jacket. That's what Natalie was wearing.

[Ryder Strong]

She likes showing a lot of skin. She's showing a lot of skin throughout.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

She's the Bruno.

[Will Friedle]

Open everything. Yeah. But they were right again. It's.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, no, Donna, it was really, really cool that they were right. I was way wrong. Donna's banished.

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[Ryder Strong]

And Then they went to the mission, which gets even cooler and more wicker manish. With cages.

[Spinquest Advertiser]

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[Ryder Strong]

And, like, carts with cages. And then bringing them to the marsh, making them run around and find skulls.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, this is where I fell twice in love with Johnny Weir.

[Ryder Strong]

With Johnny Weir, who just. I. My favorite was when Eric is like, you're an Olympic. Yes.

[Will Friedle]

You're an Olympic. Like, you had. So you had to run. The challenge was you had to run down. Well, we should say whoever's. He says, first of all, you got to partner up.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So they don't want to be the odd man out.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. And which is where Ron got screwed and agreed. Unfair. Because I'm. I'm, like, the only person. I was like, Ron was defending Donna, which totally made sense. In my mind. He was pointing out Porsche, which also totally made sense. And, like, is everyone forgetting that most of them voted for Porsche, too? So, like, Ron presenting the information that he had the evidence against Portia doesn't make him more likely a traitor. Doesn't make. You know, I don't think, like, he was.

[Will Friedle]

Well, it depends. So some. What the. Because what the traders want to do is they want to get all the Faithfuls out. Right. So you're a trader, but if you're a traitor, you could manufacture. I heard her say this, or this is the evidence I'm bringing. Then you get everyone to vote her out. And then it's like.

[Ryder Strong]

So it's like he was on Donna's side. Basically. They're thinking she turned out to be a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Because they don't know that she's a secret trader.

[Will Friedle]

Right. They just know she's a traitor.

[Ryder Strong]

See, that's what's messing me up in my head, because I'm like. Like, if you know that she's the secret traitor, when she gets called out, the person who was defending her couldn't possibly also be a traitor because they wouldn't know.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

But in this case, they're assuming because he defended her.

[Will Friedle]

That's. Yeah. And so anybody. And it's like, wow, he really wanted to get her out of here. And it's like, she's not.

[Ryder Strong]

I feel for Ron, man.

[Will Friedle]

I feel for Ron, too, because I think he's a funny, nice guy.

[Ryder Strong]

He's a funny, nice guy.

[Will Friedle]

But it seems like anything that puts the spotlight on you is not a.

[Ryder Strong]

Good thing in this game. Just keep your mouth shut.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Keep your mouth shut.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Which is why I think Mark is doing very well. Kind of flying under the radar so far.

[Will Friedle]

Kristen Gish. Yeah, Kristen Gish is the same way. So there's. Yeah, there's. But then you. So the challenge is you have to go down there. There's. You decide which one of them is going to be in the cage, which one's going to stay out. And then once you're in there without.

[Ryder Strong]

Knowing what the challenge is. Right.

[Will Friedle]

And then you find out.

[Ryder Strong]

But at this point, you probably know it's something slightly physical, right? Yeah, they're all kind of physical, but you also don't.

[Will Friedle]

They're like, you got to decide how much you trust your partner and who gets in the cage and who doesn't get in the cage.

[Ryder Strong]

Because the idea there is that if you. If your partner wanted to screw you, they would just leave you in there.

[Will Friedle]

Well, think about it. If you're a traitor and you partner up with somebody that you want to get out, it would be a great way to. I can't find the skulls. And now you're up for murder. And then you can put yourself on murder.

[Ryder Strong]

None of the traitors did that.

[Will Friedle]

No, but you easily could have. That's why it's like, you better trust your partner. Because if I want to screw you over, I'm a traitor and you're a faithful. And I'm yelling from the swamp, Ryder.

[Ryder Strong]

I can't find the tenth skull.

[Home Instead / NYX / CVS Advertiser]

Where.

[Will Friedle]

Meanwhile, I see it right over there. Now you're up for murder. And then I can. We can kill you off.

[Ryder Strong]

Didn't come up. But that actually is a good reason to think that, like, Johnny would be a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Eric didn't actually bring, like. They didn't. Nobody really brought that up.

[Will Friedle]

I think almost anybody else but Johnny they would have thought was a traitor. I think Johnny. They're just kind of like, he doesn't want to run around the marsh and. And. And grab.

[Ryder Strong]

That's what I love. He's sitting there and he's like, these challenges have been specifically hard for me. One water to grass. That's why they're called challenges, dumbass.

[Will Friedle]

Like, if it was easy, if it.

[Ryder Strong]

Was like figure skating. Yeah. No.

[Will Friedle]

Everyone's got a triple south cow.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, well, I really, you know, I thought we would just be getting brunch and that would be our. What are you talking about? It's gonna be. It's a challenge of this. Yes. I couldn't believe he said that. It was just like, you know, it's. Why aren't we just sitting uncomfortable chairs and talking all the time? It doesn't make sense, but I love.

[Will Friedle]

That, dude, you're Johnny. You're an Olympic athlete.

[Ryder Strong]

It was truly pathetic, I have to say.

[Will Friedle]

It was.

[Ryder Strong]

He showed up after 10 minutes and had not even, like, come on.

[Will Friedle]

About four minutes in, you heard him. You went, ah. It was just like. And then. So you gotta find the skulls. You've gotta bring them back. And then I was like, okay, this isn't that hard. And then I saw them start to stack them, and I was like, oh, it's really challenging. This could be really difficult. Cause you've gotta stack these things on top of each other.

[Ryder Strong]

And they all had these different strategies. Like, some people were like, reverse. Who was it that just did a perfect. Like. Like, all the same direction.

[Will Friedle]

I forget.

[Ryder Strong]

But it worked. But it was like, damn, I can't believe that worked. It was perfect.

[Will Friedle]

It was perfect. And so if you get out of the cage, you're fine. If you stuck. You're stuck in the cage. You're up for murder.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Colton was. Was flailing at this one, too.

[Will Friedle]

And you can see his hand shaking. He's just. You're a football player. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Again, what's. What's going on here?

[Will Friedle]

And a bachelor.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

My God.

[Ryder Strong]

But I love that Carol. Caroline was like, what's going on? He really. You can't do it.

[Will Friedle]

But.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, but that's interesting. None of the people that were stuck in the cage brought up the thing that you brought up, which is very. A really good point. That you could be looking at your partner and saying, are they taking this intentionally?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, that didn't exactly. No, that didn't come up. Think about what this challenge, how easy that would be.

[Ryder Strong]

My brain doesn't. I would be the one in the cage going like, oh, poor John didn't do it. I would never think they're a traitor and they're screwing me intentionally, which I kind of have to think like that, of course, and think about how easy it would be.

[Will Friedle]

Such a sucker to blow it. Because, of course, just trip or not even that around.

[Ryder Strong]

Cover yourself in mud when nobody's looking, and come back.

[Will Friedle]

Do, like, though not even that. Think about Colton. I got all 10 as fast as possible, and I still just got six in and I dropped it. I can get it. I can get it.

[Ryder Strong]

But Caroline didn't even suspect. Like, she never said anything.

[Will Friedle]

Nope. And that's the genius of playing as a trader. You run there, you get the skulls as fast as possible, Then you just can't stack them. Like, there's so many ways to screw your opponent. And then there's poor Ron just sitting there by himself, who had no partner.

[Ryder Strong]

But now Rob did help Maura.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

So he's a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Who?

[Will Friedle]

Great way to throw suspicion off of somebody else. Like, obviously I'm not a traitor. We kicked butt.

[Ryder Strong]

See, I'm so straightforward. I just thought everyone's just going to play the game. Like, I never thought that you could tank a challenge.

[Will Friedle]

Sure you can.

[Ryder Strong]

That's exactly what you have to do.

[Will Friedle]

Of course.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh my God.

[Will Friedle]

You're gonna be awesome at the new the new reality show trusts everybody.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Which is.

[Ryder Strong]

It's just people hanging out, money to people. Just take it. I don't want to have any problems. Just take my money. Oh, do you want to beat me up? Oh, okay.

[Will Friedle]

I trust you.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, I'll trust all the money and kick.

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[Will Friedle]

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[Will Friedle]

So who do we have? The pairs were.

[Ryder Strong]

What? What?

[Will Friedle]

Dorinda and Lisa.

[Ryder Strong]

Dorinda and Lisa. And Lisa did. Even though she's a traitor, she was on the short list for murder.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

So she got stuck in her cage. Dorinda did nothing.

[Will Friedle]

Which as a trader, is brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

You want to be stuck in that cage? Hell yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? Natalie and Monet. Monet got Natalie out. Yep. Colton and Caroline. Colton fumbled, like we said. Michael and Tiffany. Tiffany got my cage.

[Will Friedle]

And he also, I thought, got big brownie points by saying to her and everybody else heard it, do you want me to go in the cage? I'll go in the cage. I trust you. Like no pro. So it's like, okay, yeah, I'm a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

Faithful.

[Will Friedle]

I'm a faithful. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

How much of a faithful I am. Right? But also, isn't that what you would do if you were a traitor? Because you know that even if they don't make it, you're not going to get murdered.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, but I mean, it would depend, I think, like if, if you were seriously fighting against your strength. Like if, for instance, Rob R. Was like no, I'm gonna go in the cage, and Maura, you're gonna run down there, grab the things, and stack them. Physically. That wouldn't make as much sense as him running down there and doing all the physical stuff while she sits in the cage. She even said that she's like, if there's anything physical, I think you should dat. And so it was, like, Scottish. Whatever it was. Whatever it was, whatever she said, it's.

[Ryder Strong]

The tease that I love. It's a teaser.

[Will Friedle]

Thanks to you, D. That's what she was saying the whole time. Do. Do so. Yeah, but, I mean, it would. It wouldn't have made as much sense for Rob R. To not be the one running around doing the physical stuff where even she said, like, you're doing everything physical.

[Ryder Strong]

So.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it's. And then you try to win.

[Ryder Strong]

It goes against what Michael did. That's what I mean. Like, because he is more.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I guess that's true, too.

[Ryder Strong]

God, you're right.

[Will Friedle]

There's so many levels. He actually.

[Ryder Strong]

If he was a traitor, that's the perfect move to try and, like, be like, no, I'm willing to prove to you by.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know. I think Tiffany's kind of, you know, getting played by Michael. I think she's just. But they're both faithfuls. I know.

[Will Friedle]

That's the thing that nobody's playing anybody. They're both. This game is so infuriating that you're like, am I playing him or is he playing me? Or at the end of the day, you're both on the same team.

[Ryder Strong]

Rob and Mora. Rob. Rob got Maura out of there.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

Candace and Tara. This one. What happened here?

[Will Friedle]

Candace was stuck in the.

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[Will Friedle]

Candace got out. Candace got out. Candace got out.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Johnny and Eric. Johnny couldn't even find.

[Ryder Strong]

Eric completely screwed. Johnny literally couldn't even find the Skulls. Mark and Kristen. This was heartbreaking because Mark was so close.

[Will Friedle]

So close. Close.

[Ryder Strong]

Didn't make it.

[Will Friedle]

Nope. They're my favorite pair, by the way, really, of just of people playing. They're my. They're the pair that I think I would have the most fun hanging out with in a social setting would be these two. I don't know why. I just think both very cool people. Yes. Those are the people you want to drink wine with and hang out with at night. Are those two people in the castle? That would be my. That would be my team right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Jam Jam and Steven. Jam Jam got out.

[Will Friedle]

Yep. So Jam Jam was the first One to get out I think.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep. Yep. And then, and then poor Ron. Poor Ron just didn't even stand a.

[Will Friedle]

Chance cuz he dared to point out actual evidence that he had. Even though it turned out to be wrong. It was actual evidence. He's never going to speak again. He's never going to speak again. Exactly. Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

So then after the challenge they explained they're going to get tied to a tree and murdered face to face. Face to face. Which I didn't quite understand what that that meant and I still like are they gonna. Because they're not gonna get to see who the traitors are unless they're murdered. Correct.

[Will Friedle]

I think once you're murdered you pull off the mask and you go I just murdered you. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So brutal. It's so brutal.

[Will Friedle]

Brutal yet fabulous.

[Ryder Strong]

It's. It's entertaining for sure. It is. A lot of twists and turns.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. The traders got together in the turret and I was at this point I was like, like is she still. Is Lisa still stuck in her cage? Guess they took her at the back to the hotel and then brought her out and then took everyone from the hotel to tie them to trees. Y my God. Production on this. So interesting. So interesting. We have no idea what was discussed. Any predictions who they're going to murder?

[Will Friedle]

So wait, okay. So the people that are that are.

[Ryder Strong]

Tied to the tree are Lisa who is not. Who is not. Who is a traitor. So that's not gonna happen. Right? Eric. Ron obviously. Eric. Who else is left?

[Will Friedle]

Oh I, that's right. I remember. I think it's going to be ah it's so tough. I think Kristen safe. I don't think there's any reason to kill her. I think Ron. Now see here's the other thing though. They could. They could kill two birds with one stone here.

[Ryder Strong]

Here.

[Will Friedle]

Because Ron is on the short list for being voted. Everyone wants to banish him. He's going to. There's a real good chance he's going to be banished. Exactly. So kill somebody other than him and then banish him the next day and you get two people out.

[Ryder Strong]

I had the exact same thought.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I would say it's a waste to kill Ron 100%. Except the only thing. Well no. Yeah. No, because I was going to say if. Because a lot of Ron has a lot of enemies already. Yeah. No there's no.

[Will Friedle]

They're gonna vote Ron out.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. So. So you throw somebody off. You throw everybody off by killing somebody kind of innocent and seemingly so has anybody is Eric.

[Will Friedle]

It's got to be Eric then. Right. It's gonna be Maybe. Maybe it will be Kristen because it's such a. It just doesn't. Doesn't mean anything.

[Ryder Strong]

Not really. I don't think so. Right. Eric and kristen would just be like.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, yeah, like, why did they kill them?

[Ryder Strong]

Right. But eliminates people.

[Will Friedle]

And then the next day, you vote Ron out and you get two out right away. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Because if everyone assumes that Ron is a traitor, then him surviving only further helps make him look like a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Right, right, Right. Like you were in the cage by yourself. No one wanted to partner with you. And you're still here. You're a traitor, dude. Voting you out. And then the faithfuls are the traitors. Got two faithfuls out right Back to back.

[Ryder Strong]

That's the only move.

[Will Friedle]

I agree. I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

So poor Eric and kristen are just.

[Will Friedle]

It's going to be Eric or Kristen. And I think. I think it's going to be.

[Home Instead / NYX / CVS Advertiser]

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[Will Friedle]

Then I think it's going to be kristen.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I think Kristen might be going. One thing we should talk about every episode is who do you think at this point is going to win the whole thing? Like, who do you think at this point? You've got all your money down on. On somebody who right now for you is going to win the show?

[Ryder Strong]

Well, if it's a trader, only one trader makes.

[Will Friedle]

If there's a trader left. Correct.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

What if there's more than one trader? Can't more than one trader make it to the end? Do they split the money? Yes. So, yeah, they. Okay, so split the money.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, I think Candace is gonna get caught. I think still playing too hard. 100 even though they've been doing well. I. I think. I think they got really lucky with a Donna thing. And I don't think that Candace is actually going to be able to play it. Rob is doing really well.

[Will Friedle]

I think so too. But I think they're going to get him to really. Yeah. I don't know why, but my money.

[Ryder Strong]

Right now is that Rob will actually make it the longest of the traders. And I can see that. Really good shot at winning. But if we're talking faithfuls winning, I think the faithfuls at the end could be. I'm still believing. I'm a believer in Natalie. I believe she's not going to piss people off. I think Natalie and a weird way. Yeah. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I think. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Natalie and colton have a really good show and Colton's playing so well.

[Will Friedle]

I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

And how. How many faithfuls are at the end?

[Will Friedle]

You always think last season there were Four.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Because at a certain point, they just have to cut it off and say, like.

[Will Friedle]

And then. And then the way they end it is all of the people there around a bonfire have to agree to end, meaning they have to be like, I think everybody here right now is a faithful.

[Ryder Strong]

Is absolutely a faithful.

[Will Friedle]

And I believe it enough to where I'm going all in and we're going to split the money.

[Ryder Strong]

We're all weird way. If Michael Rappaport doesn't annoy the crap out of everybody because he is so committed, and if he can convince people and they can just be able to separate personality from what he's actually saying, he has a good shot because he's so, like. He's so, like, no, man, I'm gonna do. You know, he's, like, so passionate that if he can convince, like, the way he's got Tiffany, you know, on his side, even though she doesn't actually believe it. No, I. I feel like he might have a shot because he's so erratic that the traitors might not want. The traitors might want to keep him around. Do you know what I mean? For a while. Because you kill him off, you lose your voice of, like, attention and people. I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

I also think. And here's a hot take. I think there's a chance that Dorinda makes it to the end, too this year. I don't know why. I feel like people like her and she's flying under the radar and I feel like she's got a shot.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. But I think we're both in agreement. Natalie and. Or Colton for sure. Yeah, I'm team Natalie. You got Colton.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

All right.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

See how this plays out. All right, well, that's it for this episode of Pod meets Twirled. Once again, alliances were tested, trust misplaced, and we're left with a cliffhanger. Join us next time as we continue our journey through season four of traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play fairest foul, and foul is fair.

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[Will Friedle]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual, Coffee, lucky socks, and now new Morning Uncrustable sandwiches.

[Ryder Strong]

It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or Up and apple flavors.

[Will Friedle]

Bright Eye Berries got a feisty receiver.

[Ryder Strong]

Energy up an apple. Your classic do it all tight end.

[Will Friedle]

Soft, pillowy, packed with protein and easy enough enough for Gronk to grab from the freezer.

[Ryder Strong]

Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, new Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP of snacks.

[Will Friedle]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with new Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein. Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

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We host the podcast Mind the Small.

[Will Friedle]

Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

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We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Will Friedle]

The big thing about working at tech.

[Ryder Strong]

Is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie, that's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is.

[Will Friedle]

To be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.