Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 404

Summary

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Pod Meets World – Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 404

Host: iHeartPodcasts
Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Will Friedle & Rider Strong
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into episode 4 ("404") of The Traitors season 4, with Will and Rider dissecting cast strategies, reality TV culture, game mechanics, and standout character moments—all filtered through their irreverent, nostalgic humor.

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Main Theme & Purpose

Will and Rider, former stars of Boy Meets World and now seasoned reality TV rewatchers, analyze and react to episode 4 of The Traitors (US Version, Season 4). They offer not only a beat-by-beat commentary on game moves and social dynamics but also broader reflections on the evolution of reality TV, why audiences love "villains", and the psychological toll (and pleasure) of watching human trainwrecks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Complicated Feelings About Reality TV

• Will confesses to a love-hate relationship with reality TV, due to its impact on traditional scripted TV and its sometimes "toxic" culture (03:13).
  • Quote: “I just have a complicated relationship with reality TV in general. I was one of those people who really, really hated it… it was killing our industry.”
    (Will Friedle, 03:13)
• Rider agrees, noting most reality shows focus on drama and backstabbing, feeding negative cultural appetites. He and his wife Sue gravitate toward “skill-based” or “talent-based” shows instead (04:14, 06:13).
  • Quote: "It’s so much easier to destroy a house than it is to build one." (Rider Strong, 06:14)

2. The Role of “TV Villains”

• The hosts dive into Michael Rapaport’s controversial entertainment value, questioning what it says about viewers’ (and their own) appetites for conflict (05:18).
  • Quote: “I was wanting Michael Rapaport to be awful because it was entertaining… I know that’s kind of a standard reality show viewing mode, but I think it’s really awful for us as a culture.” (Will, 05:18–05:40)
• The idea that shows like The Traitors are essentially “murder mystery roleplay weekends” with celebrities sporting over-the-top costumes and personas (07:21).

3. In-Game Drama & Player Dynamics

• Ron is portrayed as an outsider, despite giving plausible evidence about the traitor. Will relates to Ron’s frustration (09:12).
  • Quote: "He’s actually giving evidence… while Colton’s just pointing at people, going, I think it’s them." (Will, 10:45–11:00)
• The hosts laugh about the ongoing subplot with the breakfast smoked salmon and Michael Rapaport’s “shoveling” eating habits—a recurring comic highlight (12:06, 35:10).
  • Quote: “He is like taking the plate… and just shoveling it in. Who eats like that?” (Will, 35:10)

4. Challenge Breakdown & Production Critique

• They break down the convoluted mechanics of the episode’s challenge (throwing spears at effigies, Wicker Man-style), finding humor in the over-complicated instructions (17:51–18:46).
  • Quote: “Every single time, I have to rewind what Alan Cumming is talking about… At least this one involves fire.” (Will, 18:33–18:46)
• Debate whether the gameshow would benefit from viewers not knowing who the traitors are, to increase suspense and replay value (22:39–24:55).
  • Quote: “Maybe in the future they have one traitor you know about and the other three are secret… It’s such a more active viewing experience when you’re trying to figure out..." (Rider & Will, 23:16–23:41)

5. Social Strategy and Misplays

• Discussion of aggressive vs. passive gameplay, with both hosts suggesting that flying under the radar and being useful in challenges is best—contrasted against Colton and Tiffany’s more confrontational approaches (16:19–17:28).
  • Quote: “Fly under the radar and be really good at the challenges… If you can get a shield, great. But if not, become indispensable and keep your head down.” (Rider, 17:13–17:17)
• Support for Johnny Weir as a standout player who’s likable and under the radar (46:10).

6. The Emotional Toll of Accusations & Banishment

• The group analyzes how personal feelings and judgments start to outweigh logic, with emotional outbursts (like Jam Jam crying when “murdered”) and increasingly personal arguments during roundtables (33:29, 34:22).
• Noting how Tiffany’s banishment marks the first instance a player pleads financial need, unusual for a celebrity reality contest (42:11).
  • Quote: “I need the money… I’ve never seen that before, that was tough.” (Rider, 42:29)

7. Game Mechanics & Endgame Speculation

• Rider explains the show’s victory mechanics (Traders split the prize if multiple remain at the end, or one wins all if solo) (46:21).
• Both agree the Faithful are playing poorly overall, with the Traitors benefiting most from their mistakes (44:53–45:56).
  • Quote: “They’re doing this well… not because they’re so good, but because the Faithful are doing so poorly.” (Will, 45:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reality TV villains:
  "Most people don’t go to NASCAR to watch the cars go around in a circle. You go to watch a crash."
  (Will Friedle, 06:54)

• On breakfast bickering:
  "There's like this low key, like B plot going through the whole episodes now about smoked salmon…"
  (Will Friedle, 12:06)

• On convoluted challenges:
  “It’s always like, you’ve got to follow the shields to find the small wicker people. And then you find the spear, you bring it over, you light it, and then you yell into the eagle. It’s so great. It’s like nine things you’ve got to do.”
  (Rider Strong, 18:05)

• On Rapaport’s eating style:
  “Are we just going to tie a feed bag to you next? Like, what is… It was… Break down the organic jar so I can get it off all the way around. Yes. He just anaconda it in there.”
  (Will & Rider, 35:19–35:58)

• On banishment speeches:
  “Has anybody ever just stood there and been like, 'I’m a faithful, I’m a traitor,' and walked out, or do they always have to give something?”
  (Will, 41:06)

• On playing the game:
  “I’d be so bad at this game… I think if you were a faithful, you’d get there, enjoy your breakfast, have fun with the challenges, and then try to figure out what’s going on. If you were a traitor, it might be a little rough because you don’t like to lie.”
  (Rider, 40:05–40:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Complicated relationship with reality TV (Will’s monologue): 03:12–05:18
• The appeal and perils of TV villains: 05:19–07:21
• Breakfast room drama, Ron and social dynamics: 09:12–12:11
• The smoked salmon subplot: 12:06–12:31, 35:07–36:10
• Challenge/Wicker Man breakdown: 17:51–19:29
• Viewer experience: knowing vs. not knowing traitors: 22:32–24:55
• Roundtable mechanics & production insight: 29:03–30:00
• Steven’s invisibility and contestant cutaways: 27:05–28:34
• Jam Jam and emotional responses to in-game “murder”: 33:29–34:22
• Michael Rapaport’s eating style: 35:07–36:28
• Strategy: traitor vs. faithful approaches: 16:19–17:28, 44:53–45:56
• Endgame mechanics/explanation: 46:21–47:41

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Flow & Tone

The episode maintains a balance between irreverent nostalgia, light-hearted roasting, and genuine reality TV critique. Will is introspective, self-critical, and goofy; Rider is analytical, earnest, and quick with the banter. Both share a camaraderie rooted in old-school TV “family” but are unafraid to lampoon reality show excesses and their own guilty pleasures. They frequently break down moments with speculative “how would YOU play it?” and riff off each other’s hypothetical game moves and "secret shots"—often digressing for comedic effect.

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Useful for New Listeners

Those unfamiliar with The Traitors will enjoy clear, humorous explanations of episode events, character motivations, and reality competition structure. Familiar viewers will appreciate behind-the-scenes production analysis, sharp (but affectionate) player critiques, and playful predictions about who might win, who’s playing badly, and why viewers (and podcasters) keep tuning in for the chaos.

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Transcript

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[Will Friedle]

Welcome to POD meets Twirl, a podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away. Experts. So now we turn to Traitors, another show I've never seen. While Will is convinced he could win it, we are Will Friedle and Ryder Strong. Two best friends. One a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars join us as we step into a castle full of lies, alliances and over the top wardrobe choices. This is POD meets Twirled Trading Places.

[Ryder Strong]

They always do the big like dramatic cloak reveal. Yeah, they can't just take their cloak off. I think the turn is good.

[Will Friedle]

Do the turn. Do the turn.

[Ryder Strong]

Like that. Well, that's my. That's my emperor.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, the emperor.

[Ryder Strong]

Young Skywalker, I'm afraid the deflector shield.

[Angie Hicks]

Will be fully operational.

[Will Friedle]

Operational. All right. Visual jokes on a podcast. We love it.

[Ryder Strong]

That thing behind you. So funny.

[Will Friedle]

I know. Look at this face. I can make. All right, Traders. Oh, man. I am. I'm in deep. You're soaked in. But I'm also. I'm having lots of strange feelings. Okay. And we can talk about it.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, let's talk it out.

[Will Friedle]

You know, like, here. I just have a complicated relationship with reality TV in general.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure.

[Will Friedle]

I was one of those people who really, really hated it.

[Angie Hicks]

Me, too. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And, you know, partly because it, you know, it was killing our industry. Like, still is. Yeah, still is. But when we were finishing Boy Meets World, reality was ascendant. It, like. Do you remember it was like, a big deal that the game shows were coming back because who Wants to Be a Millionaire was taking off and they decided to put it on every night.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

And so, like, shows like traditional television shows with writing and acting and all of the things was too expensive, and those jobs started going away, and then we had the strike. The writers strike. The old writers strike. There's been so many now. I know. Anyway, I. You know, so I was always pretty negative, you know, about it, for that reason. But then also just the culture. The culture of reality tv, I never really liked. And I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

It's. There's. There's very few traditional, quote unquote, reality TV shows that are upbeat and happy. It's all about backstabbing and drunkenness and, you know, getting arrested. Sue and I, because we're gluttons for punishment, are rewatching Jersey Shore, the original series of Jersey Shore.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, see, that's.

[Ryder Strong]

That's kind of magically, wonderfully awesome.

[Will Friedle]

But I. I guess I like, you know, Survivor was the only time I really embraced it was like, while my wife was pregnant, for whatever reason, she was like, let's watch Survivor. And I started getting into it then. So that was 11 years ago. Eleven and a half years ago. And I got really into it, and I could see, you know, I could see it as like a sort of a physical challenge that was cool. And it never felt. I don't know, that show always felt wholesome in a way that other reality shows didn't. Anyway, long way to say, during this episode of Traitors, I found myself wanting Michael Rapaport to Be awful because it was entertaining, right?

[Ryder Strong]

And it worked.

[Will Friedle]

That was the part of my brain that I don't like indulging. Do you know what I mean? It felt toxic. I was like, oh, I hope they.

[Ryder Strong]

Don'T kick Michael off.

[Will Friedle]

Because I really like watching him just be a dick and like, say stupid things. And in a weird way, I was liking him for things that I don't like in real life at all. Like, I don't like, you know, And I just. I know that that's kind of a standard reality show, like, viewing mode, but I think it's really awful for us. I think it's awful for us as individuals and I think it's really awful for us as a culture because I think it's part of the reason our politics are the way they are right now. It's like we're almost like. It's excitement and energy more than like being a good person or being clear about what you're saying. It's more just like, let's just watch fireworks, like human fireworks, like bombs going off. And I just hate that I started to feel that way. I know. Well, it's just.

[Ryder Strong]

It's also. It's so much easier to hate than.

[Will Friedle]

It is to love.

[Ryder Strong]

It's so much easier to destroy a house than it is to build one. That's just the way it is. And so we're kind of always appealing to the lowest common denominator, which is one of the reasons that sue and I really have our reality tv, other than Traders, which is a total guilty pleasure thing, is really skill based or talent based.

[Angie Hicks]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Like chef shows.

[Ryder Strong]

Chef shows or maybe an occasional singing show like Dancing with Stars was. That was interesting to me. Like how you have to learn the process and learn all about this kind of sub world and all that stuff. That's really cool. And that's one other reason why we love the Great British Bake Show. It's just people baking are helping each other. It's really nice.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

But this is. I mean, again, with all the stuff you're talking about with Michael. Most people don't go to NASCAR to watch the cars go around in a circle.

[Will Friedle]

You go to watch Crash a wreck, of course.

[Ryder Strong]

And that's what you're.

[Will Friedle]

That's what it is with this.

[Ryder Strong]

And you're sitting there, you're hoping it was funny. An article came out. I'm going to misquote it and I don't know who wrote it. So, you know, essentially all the news nowadays, I read it once online, so now I'M talking about it as if it was a real thing. But somebody wrote an article about how great it was to have, quote, unquote, TV villains back with Michael, talking about Michael Rapamont, where it was like, it was a joy to have this back. And it was like, is it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Angie Hicks]

Is it really?

[Will Friedle]

I mean, it's an interesting. This show is so interesting because it's like, it seems to constantly be like, you know, in really what it is. It's a role playing game. It's playing D and D. Of course, it's a murder mystery game night weekend. Right. So they're all role playing. And, like, I think that there's a. There's an element of that which, you know, obviously, like, come ins with his costumes and then everything. They're all kind of leaning into this, like, arch villainy sort of fun thing. Yeah. And so that kind of makes it okay when they're kind of. But they also, like, in this opening of this episode, when, like, they're. They're like, mean to each other. They say things that I'm like, I would. I wouldn't be okay, like, if somebody said that to me, even in the context of a role play, like, I'd be like, dude, you know, like, when we just get into it. But when, you know, they murder her and this. And she's like, you bitch.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm like, she's kind of not joking.

[Ryder Strong]

I, by accident, watched 30 seconds of Housewives once because I walked into a room and literally the door locked behind me and I couldn't get out fast enough. And that's. But that's what it is. It's drunken women backstabbing each other, talking about their husbands, talking about their families. I can't believe you said that about me. It's the worst of society. And the problem is we are making them that this is what this is. This is D and D, a role playing game coupled with alcohol, coupled with the unwarranted arrogance of, quote, unquote, celebrity. So you put it all together and it's just a beautiful mess of an awful symphony of gorgeousness. So. Yeah. And it just. It does. It sucks you in. You don't want to watch, and you can't look away. It's awful.

[Will Friedle]

All right, well, in the breakfast room, Ron was the first faithful tied to a tree from the night before who showed up and wasn't murdered. They started asking him questions about what happened.

[Ryder Strong]

Smart, by the way. You got to see if everybody gets their story straight.

[Will Friedle]

Totally, totally. And then Lisa walked in and she. She is one of the traitors and really a bad liar.

[Ryder Strong]

I hope they ed. I was like, maybe she told the best story in the world. And they just edited to look like she couldn't do it.

[Will Friedle]

I had the same thought because they added all those extra pauses, and I'm like, that was.

[Ryder Strong]

No one would have believed her ever, Ever. With that story. It was like, dude, come up with. Make up something a little bit.

[Will Friedle]

I know it was bad, but. But, yeah, she just. She also just, like, overdid it. You know, she's, like, talking too much, and it was like, oh, you are a lie simple.

[Ryder Strong]

It's the easiest thing to do, right? A lie simple.

[Will Friedle]

I couldn't believe no one really caught onto it. I mean, I know, like, you're saying. I think there was some selective editing going on, but even if you just took what she was saying, like, the way she was getting so into it, I was like, okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And. Oh, and then Ron had this. This whole thing about how he heard light footsteps, which is actually pretty good.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, yes.

[Will Friedle]

You know, a good way to.

[Ryder Strong]

A big, heavy guy is gonna make different footsteps than a light little woman.

[Will Friedle]

And there were. There are two women and that, you know. Yeah. But immediately he picked the wrong person. Went for Mara, who's, like, even tinier, I guess. But, like. Yeah, but it was a good theory, you know?

[Ryder Strong]

And I don't think it's her. I don't think it's her.

[Will Friedle]

I don't think it's her.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think it's her. I do want to think it's her.

[Will Friedle]

I like, man, Ron, he is just always on the outside of this entire.

[Ryder Strong]

Game now, just pissed. Like, he's just walking around angry.

[Will Friedle]

I really get it. Like, they're all still, like, bringing up Portia and him, like, turning on her. But meanwhile, he's the only. He's actually giving evidence, which he did. Like, this is a good call.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, meanwhile, Colton's just pointing at people going, I think it's them. I think it's them. I think it's.

[Will Friedle]

That's what I mean. Colton's just, like, throwing out theories, but everyone likes him better socially. But I'm like, Ron, you know, it's. It's a little like.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

There's a bias.

[Angie Hicks]

There's.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Kind of bias against Ron that I'm not. Because watching it, I'm like, I like this guy. He's funny. He's like. He's.

[Ryder Strong]

He's the Danielle of this. And they're all Dancing with the Stars judges. That's what. That's what's going on. Because I will tell you firsthand, Ron Funches is known as one of the nicest guys in comedy. He seems like he would be.

[Will Friedle]

Yes, yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Big Boy Meets World fan, by the way. Is he really?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know that I'm friends with Ron? What?

[Angie Hicks]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God.

[Angie Hicks]

Wow. Okay.

[Will Friedle]

So cool. I feel sorry for him. I do, too. I'm watching this going, like, why do they keep going up against him? And he's like. He doesn't give them any reason. He.

[Ryder Strong]

How do you play if every time you open your mouth, somebody thinks that you're. You need to be kicked off? Which is where it is with him now. It's like he can't even like, well, here's the thing I saw, and it's like, I don't trust that Ron. It's like, oh, my God, how can I even say anything anymore? I guess just get there early, eat the smoked salmon that apparently everybody wants. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

There's like this low key, like, B plot going through the whole episodes now. About smoked salmon.

[Ryder Strong]

About smoked salmon. You're in Scotland. Just go outside. You literally just hold your hand up and a salmon comes into your hand. It's that easy.

[Will Friedle]

Like, can't they just provide more smoke? I'm hoping there's a payoff to this by, like, the next episode. There's like another.

[Ryder Strong]

It's just a room of salmon.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, how's that hard?

[Will Friedle]

How hard is that?

[Ryder Strong]

They all want smoked salmon. It's pretty much. It's obvious. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, and then Michael Rappaport talks a little bit about his tone and how he. How he talks, which is. It is sick. He has a very, like, you know, shit talking tone, and he just doesn't shut up.

[Ryder Strong]

How long did that last? He's like, I'm gonna change my ways. That was like a minute, two minutes. God.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

He is a character.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. All right. Well, then Eric comes in, and he was, you know, up for murder too. And he tells the camera, not the crowd, but he tells the camera that he had heard a laugh.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So immediately I thought this was gonna pay off. I was like, that's pretty. Because, I mean, a laugh is very specific. And like, he says later in the episode he's a musician. But so I was stoked on this. I was like, again, that's actual evidence. It's not just like, I don't like this person or whatever. It was like, yeah, that's.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep.

[Will Friedle]

All right. It was. It was Caroline who was killed.

[Ryder Strong]

I think she was still killed for the first jacket she wore while she was there. That giant with the huge shoulder pads. I still think that's why she was killed eventually. Yeah. I couldn't get over it. So that's it, you're out.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. And so, I mean, I thought this was kind of a smart move to kill her because they had been taking out all the gamers. Right. And it was like time to like kill a housewife to throw the scent off of the housewives, because there's two housewives on the trading team.

[Ryder Strong]

We also thought Ron was going to be voted off the next day anyway.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So two birds with one stone. Get rid of two faithfuls right away. Which is. It's good playing, by the way. Rob in his just overalls. Yeah. Is turning out to be a genius at this game. I don't know how it's possible, but all of a sudden he's turned into Sherlock Holmes out there.

[Will Friedle]

Well, he's in a great position to be a traitor because he's, you know, I think he can be low key.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

You know what I mean? Like, he's not super dramatic.

[Ryder Strong]

Expect anything from him.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

And he's playing it. He's playing it perfectly.

[Will Friedle]

He's flying under the radar really well.

[Ryder Strong]

Nobody, other than one thing, which we'll get into later, nobody has even mentioned any of these three possibilities of being traitors.

[Will Friedle]

Uh, but yeah, so when they confront, they do a face to face murder with Caroline. This was when I was like, man, the way they're talking to each other, it's. Yeah, the game. Because she was like, I'll see you at Bravo Con.

[Ryder Strong]

And yeah, she was like, no, you.

[Will Friedle]

Know, no, you won't. Whoa. Are we, like, gonna lose a friendship over this? You wonder, though, you bitch.

[Ryder Strong]

What do you think would happen if. If you and I were on the show and I. I pull off my mask and there's you standing there as a traitor, I'd be like, you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

But with a big smile.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, that's true. We. You'd know instantly that we were joking. Yeah, of course, of course.

[Will Friedle]

And I mean, I'm sure maybe they. They are. And this, you know, I'm like, probably reading too much into it, but I guess also because of what happens throughout this episode and the next episode, which we'll talk about, because they both dropped at the same time, it, you know, it gets right up to the line of like, is this like, really? Yeah, like, because Ron gets into it too. They, you know, they're like, they. When he. Later when he's like, I don't want to know about your family. I don't care about your. You know, like, my family's none of.

[Ryder Strong]

Youring business or something like that.

[Will Friedle]

Like, it's like we're right up to the line of. And, you know, this is a game.

[Ryder Strong]

But I guess at the same time, it's also a television show, and it's also for $250,000.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

So it's like it's. It's. They're playing to win.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. All right. Well, after breakfast, they all. They all split up. And, you know, Ron is pretty much everyone's target. Tiffany is totally pushing for Ron. Like, not really sure why.

[Ryder Strong]

No, they've just. They're convinced. They're all convinced from the beginning. Yep.

[Will Friedle]

And meanwhile, Colton begins gunning for Tiffany, which kind of actually makes sense. Like, I can understand this. His, like, because she is, like, making decisions and trying to run a lot of sh.

[Ryder Strong]

Isn't Candace doing that, too? At, like, every roundtable and yet nobody's talking about Candace.

[Will Friedle]

Well, I felt like this episode Candace finally pulled it back. You know, you're right. In those first couple episodes, I was like, lady, you're just making too much of a scene. Like, you're gonna be that you're. You're the ringleader. And everybody sees you being a ringleader.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Which just seems like a bad strategy. No matter what, whether you're a traitor or whether you're a faithful, it seems like all you do is put a target on your back when you start pointing fingers. So, like, Colton and Tiffany both just put themselves out there. And, I mean, Colton is like. I mean, both of them are, like, consciously saying, I'm going to play aggressively. I've got. But I just don't know if it's a good move.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't either. I think fly under the radar and be really good at the challenges.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

That's. That's the way to get as far as you can in the game. Traitor or faithful, just do keep your head down. If you can get a shield, great. But if not, become indispensable in all the challenges and keep your head down.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. So the whole shield thing. Well, we'll get into it because I didn't know. They didn't explain it because I guess it's just been on previous seasons.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But when we get to that, I had so many questions, and I was very upset that it wasn't unexplained.

[Ryder Strong]

All right.

[Will Friedle]

But the mission in this episode is throwing spears At Beasts. I loved this thing. So great. So do they ever repeat, have you seen this before?

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think I've seen this one before. No.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, this is like a straight rip off of the movie Wicker Man.

[Angie Hicks]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Like, it's full on, like, culty, sort of like Northern England spooky.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, these are my effigies.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God. The little stalls, the trees, this whole Blair Witch Project. I loved it.

[Ryder Strong]

But I also love how none of the challenges are, like, you gotta go find a spear and then put it in the Wicker Man. It's always like, you've got to follow the shields to find the small wicker people. And then you find the spear, you bring it over, you light it, and then you yell into the eagle. It's so great. It's like nine things you've got to do. It's so convoluted at times.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly the same steps are crazy. I mean, it's the. Every single time, I have to rewind what Alan Cman is talking about. And every time, it doesn't matter. Every time I'm like, I think I kind of know what they have to do, but then I just don't.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like every fourth coin will make the sixth coin not worth anything except the second coin in the box. And you're like, what the just happened?

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. It doesn't make. I don't know how they keep track of what they have to do because, like, they. I. Yeah, okay. At least this one involves fire. It looked good, but seriously, I rewound it, like, twice. And I was like, I hope I. Because I still don't. Why were the dolls there? Because the dolls.

[Ryder Strong]

The dolls signified the area in which the spear was going to be found.

[Will Friedle]

So then they just had to, like, dig around and find a spear because, like, they found the first dollar. It's like, okay, they got the doll. What does that mean again? They didn't even know, like, we don't need the doll.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Anyways, they're so convoluted.

[Will Friedle]

It's great. So great. But I do love them stabbing. Stabbing their fire in and shouting a name shout. Dramatic like, oh, God. Oh, my God.

[Ryder Strong]

And then the way Michael does it is the best.

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. And for decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Get all your jobs done. Well, @angie.com, this is Chelsea Handler from.

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Angie Hicks]

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[Will Friedle]

So then around this time is when Monet says he has vibes about Lisa.

[Ryder Strong]

Ooh, and the first time we've heard one of the traitors names said first time.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, and it's like, it's, it's, it's amazing. How often people say versions of this? Yeah, because they, you know, like again, they don't have evidence. They don't. But in this case actually. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And this is one of those things. Like I have no idea. Like if I didn't know who the traitors were, like, I just have no idea how I'd feel about this. Like, would I be. Would I have any idea? Look, based on how these people act.

[Ryder Strong]

Actually sitting there watching the show, I. So they have to bring back the Secret Trader.

[Will Friedle]

I think so too, man. It's. I love.

[Ryder Strong]

I like knowing them, but I. The not knowing was so much better. Maybe in the future they have one traitor you know about and the other three are secret. I mean, I don't know.

[Will Friedle]

Something like that. I agree, man. I think there need to be teams.

[Ryder Strong]

I think they're like, like secret team and a non secret team. That's a great way to do something.

[Will Friedle]

Like that because I just. There's so much more. It's such a more active viewing experience when you're trying to figure out if you, if you know who the traitor is.

[Ryder Strong]

Agreed. 100%.

[Will Friedle]

It's so much more of a. Like, oh, oh. Cause like as it is, you know, you're just kind of.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

It's sort of like a self satisfying process because it is like. Well, I'm kind of like I'm so much smarter than that. But I'm actually not. Right. I'm just. I just have all the knowledge they don't have because I'm the vibe.

[Ryder Strong]

You want to watch Jeopardy. And, and be able to answer the questions. If you know the answers already, then you're just watching to see if the contestants can answer the questions, which I guess is fine. But that's not why anybody watches Jeopardies. You watch because you want to know if you know the answers.

[Will Friedle]

That's a great parallel, man.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, it's like that's what you want is. And I loved the whole time. Every conversation sue and I are having the whole time was, who do you think the Secret Trader is? All right, so who's the Secret Trader? Who's. And now that that's gone, it's like, okay, wow, Lisa Rinna is a really bad liar. Or this blah, blah. But it's kind of. Or ooh, somebody said her name. So it's still enjoyable. But it, it's a different level when, when you're playing along with everybody, there's.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. And I almost feel like they would get even more content out of it because you could like replay Moments.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, yes.

[Will Friedle]

You know what I mean? Like, if I. If they played this, you know, Lisa line at breakfast and it was just part of the show and I didn't know that she was a traitor and then I found out she was a traitor, I would, like, then want to see that scene again and, like, maybe feel differently or be like, do you.

[Ryder Strong]

Know what I mean? Great idea. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I wonder if there's. I don't know, I wonder if they played around with all different ways.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I was trying to think, like, how the show got developed.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, did they.

[Will Friedle]

They must have done, like, a series of test pilots, right?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, sure.

[Will Friedle]

Running around with, like, in the UK.

[Ryder Strong]

And they did all this. But it's also. Everything is so heightened when you're. When you are the ones holding the secret. Do you remember Joe Schmo show? Yeah. So that first season of Joe Schmo show was the best. And there were so many times where they were, quote, unquote, so close to losing it or, oh, my God, we thought we blew it. We. And then at the end when they interviewed the main guy who was the schmo, he was like, oh, I didn't see any of that. Like, all the stuff you guys were freaked out about, I did not catch one single thing of that. Yep. So I think when you're actually in it, it's totally different. So the things we're seeing as, you know, as they're eating their salmon, we'd be like, wow, Lisa Rinner is kind of not lying really well. Or that story seemed weird. But when you're staring at breakfast, it's probably like she told her story and.

[Will Friedle]

It'S like, oh, wow, crazy. I don't know. I just don't know how. Yeah, I would love to. I'd love to experiment with the format a little bit, but. All right, so lots of Ron is like the first one, of course, called out or Ron set up for murder. Then we got Colton, who's gunning for Tiffany. Mark was the first one to shouted Ron. Right. Then Candace and Lisa, who are, you know, on the same team at both Traders. Their team chose Tiffany. Then Tiffany came in and did Monet. The next team picked Michael. But, you know, that was just because they don't like him, I guess. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Of course.

[Will Friedle]

Michael picks Tara and is shouting her name over and over again as he's.

[Ryder Strong]

Just running, Tara, Tara, Tara, Tara.

[Will Friedle]

And I love that Alan Cummings, his little, like, commentary to the camera. He's just like Michael, not quite getting the. Doesn't have to shout it over and over.

[Ryder Strong]

No, you can only have to say it once. He's the best.

[Will Friedle]

Steven gets picked. Who? Steven's just been totally flying under the radar.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Wait, which one's Steven?

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. Exactly. I don't even know. He's, like, barely.

[Ryder Strong]

Which one is he? Okay, he's the guy from, like, the Orange county show. Like the. Like, the OC or whatever. Right? Oh, right. He's.

[Will Friedle]

No, he's from One Tree Hill.

[Ryder Strong]

He was also on a reality show, but. Yeah, he was on Laguna beach, too. Yeah, One Tree Hill in Laguna Beach. Okay. Gotcha, gotcha, Gotcha, Steve.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, but he's been totally, like, kind of a non.

[Ryder Strong]

Kind of a non player.

[Will Friedle]

He is.

[Ryder Strong]

And did you see. I love when they do the cutaways, Especially when you know that they're all fake, that they're not staying in the castle. And you see the one cutaway where he's just sitting in the chair and he's going through notes. Yeah. Like, he's been sitting there taking. We rewound it three times, laughing our ass off. Like, he's, like, sitting there, like, who do I think? Oh, God, it's the best. I. I have been. Much like, when you're a kid and you're like, what would my SNL shot be? Like? They're like, at a bar, you look over shot. You know, I've been trying to figure out what my trader shot would be. And I think mine would be in bed getting ready, and I sort of like, turn the. Turn the little reading light on, and then I pull up a book and it says, how to live with a huge penis. Like, I think that's the best possible. You know, like, obviously, how to win traitors is pretty good too, right?

[Will Friedle]

But how to. How to manage giant penis.

[Ryder Strong]

That's great. I think that'd be the best. How to avoid lower back pain with a giant honking penis. Yeah, Any food one is also funny. Like, you're in bed or whatever, and then you, like, turn on the reading light and you just pull out, like, big barbecue ribs and start snacking. Oh, see that? Yeah, that would be great, too. Filling up water balloons for no reason. That's great. Yeah. Counting pennies out of a jar.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. Yeah. I gotta think about what mine would be. We should shoot ours. Will.

[Ryder Strong]

We should. Oh, my God, we totally should. That would be hysterical. Just random ones. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

All right, well, Steven's flying to the radar.

[Chelsea Handler]

If.

[Will Friedle]

And again, if this. If I were watching this, not knowing who the traitors are, I might think he's a traitor because he's playing it. So he's just letting everyone, like, go at each other and staying back.

[Ryder Strong]

You also wonder what. Because apparently at one point we've heard some of the contestants saying things like, you know, I talked for 20 minutes at that roundtable and they didn't put any of it in.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

So you wonder what they're actually, you know, using and what they aren't. And maybe the players are all talking more. They're just not as exciting a storyline.

[Will Friedle]

And here's my question about the roundtable. Is it a timed thing?

[Ryder Strong]

No, no. It's like you're a big Survivor fan. Like, I've heard over the years that some of those Survivor Tribal Councils are like six hours long.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

They do the same thing apparently on. On Top Chef where the judges will collaborate for like five days, like five hours. And Bachelor too. Those. Those Bachelor ones are like 2am and they can go to like 5.

[Will Friedle]

So they just. Usually they're just letting them. And then Alan Cummings just decides to step in and go, all right, now we vote.

[Ryder Strong]

My guess is when people start to repeat themselves again over, which always happens in a conversation with that many people, that's when they'll be like, all right, now everybody's just saying the same thing. Let's just jump in.

[Will Friedle]

But now, Alan Cummings, does he ever jump into the roundtable and like, nope. Referee at all?

[Angie Hicks]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

I was amazed last time when in the last episode when Michael started to go after jam jam, and. And Alan was like, you know what, why don't you save this for the roundtable? I was like, oh, wow. He's stepping in and saying that even that was kind of out of character, which is great. Right?

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair, done well. Kitchen sink install, done well. Deck upgrades, done well. Electrical upgrade, done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years. So we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality [e-mail].

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from. Dear Chelsea, I have some very exciting news about an ethical phone carrier. I just switched to forget about all these other phone companies. Forget about Verizon, forget about AT&T, forget about T Mobile. There's this new carrier called Noble Mobile, and they actually pay you to stay off your phone. You can earn real money, up to 20 bucks back every month just for putting your phone away. If you're like me and you're Tired of feeling controlled by your phone, social media, or just disgusted by those screen time alerts? This is the answer. Go to noblemobile.com Chelsea and try it for $10.

[Angie Hicks]

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[Will Friedle]

All right, well, after Steven was burned, I guess is the term.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Burned in effigy. Then Mark. Mark Palace's team chose Lisa. Then Ron's team chose Mora. And then Natalie. Stabbed for Johnny. And Mark and Colton found the last spear and they did Jam Jam who cried?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Which I was a little like, are you really like.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, it's emotional. You just had your effigy stabbed and then burned in a Scottish countryside.

[Will Friedle]

I guess I get confused sometimes. Like, I feel like I would be emotional about being banished, not about being murdered.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, being murdered seems like it's an honor. Kind of.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. Exactly like that one.

[Ryder Strong]

We just don't like you.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. Right. And obviously if Jam Jam is feeling like they're not like him because he has has been on the chop. You know, he's been circulated as if he's a traitor. Like, so I don't know. I was a little like, why? Like, it was. It was an interesting emotional. I mean, obviously it was real, like, because I don't think he benefits from an emotional dude. Yeah. Yeah. And then they were in the cars on the way back and, like, I think it was Maura was talking about just taking it really personally. Yeah. You know, she was like, you know, and Tiffany was gunning for Ron and turning more against him.

[Ryder Strong]

It seems to be more personal this season than it was last season.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Okay. Because I guess I expected more strategy.

[Ryder Strong]

But as faithfuls, what can you. What kind of strategy can you have?

[Will Friedle]

Well, all the stuff about, like, hearing light footsteps, hearing a laugh, testing the people by, you know, confronting them. Like, I. You know, seeing how they lie or answer a question. That seems like more fun, but, like, just kind of picking on somebody because you don't like them or they don't ask about your family or whatever. I'm like, or because they burned your shield when the reality is they had to burn somebody's shield. Like, somebody's up for murder. It's like, right. Okay. But now we get this glorious shot that will live rent free in my mind forever of Michael Rappaport eating. Did you notice this?

[Ryder Strong]

Did. Did I notice it? Are you kidding me?

[Will Friedle]

One of the crazy. He is, like, taking the plate. The plate is level with his mouth. It just shoveling it in. I was like, who eats like that?

[Angie Hicks]

A.

[Will Friedle]

And then he's like that on camera.

[Ryder Strong]

Unbelievable. I could we. We stopped and we were like, did we just see that? Like, how is that okay? Anywhere. Anywhere.

[Angie Hicks]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

This, man. This is what he eats. Like in public, on camera. What? Unbelievable.

[Ryder Strong]

I was just wondering, like, who hoses him down after dinner?

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. I just like, are we just going to tie a feed bag to you next? Like, what is just. It was.

[Ryder Strong]

Break down the organic jar so I.

[Will Friedle]

Can get it off all the way around. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

He just anaconda it in there. It's like, that is. Seriously. That is. He's gotta have 10 older brothers. And you just eat as fast as you can so you can eat. There's gotta. Cause I don't know where. That's okay.

[Will Friedle]

Like, dude, where did you learn to eat?

[Ryder Strong]

That's why there's no salmon left. My God. Like, God, don't put anything near his mouth.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. It's crazy. And this is about where I was like, I don't want him to leave. Like, I Just.

[Ryder Strong]

He's my favorite.

[Will Friedle]

Everything I hate about this guy, I love. This is where the toxicity of reality.

[Ryder Strong]

TV don't want him to leave.

[Will Friedle]

God. Cuz I was just like, that's entertainment.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, God.

[Will Friedle]

Watching him mean.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, he is a character. He is a character. My God. That was great.

[Will Friedle]

Y. All right. I feel like Tiffany is being very aggressive, you know, just not taking Colton's accusations in stride.

[Ryder Strong]

But it seems like every time Colton opens his mouth, everyone's like, ready. I think it's because he clocked Mama Donna. Yeah. Mama Kelsey.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

That now he's got some cred to where when he talks, people are listening. But.

[Will Friedle]

But it's also just. He's a leader. Like, he's.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, he's got a natural leader charisma, and he.

[Will Friedle]

He sounds like he's making sense. And he's got a plan. Do you know what I mean? But actually, his plan is not based on much. His plan is just kind of like. I think it's this person.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. He'll say, I'm taking a swing tonight. Like, exactly. Okay. With what?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Whereas, like, Ron with his light steps. Facts. Nobody. Nobody cares about Ron, stat. But, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, nobody cares.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Yeah. So roundtable gets pretty interesting when Eric lays out this laugh evidence, which is just such a bummer.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, it's a bummer because it's the way he sets it up where he's like, I'm a musician. My ears are magical. They're elven ears given to me by yes. You know, it's like, oh, God. And he's just. He couldn't build it up anymore. I've won magical ear 1997 through 2011. It's like, oh, God. And then he's wrong.

[Will Friedle]

It's just.

[Ryder Strong]

It sucks because he really does swing for the fences.

[Will Friedle]

The traitors are so happy.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God. Overjoyed. They don't have to do anything.

[Will Friedle]

And the second that that laugh, like, the evidence was presented, you know, that their hearts were just like, oh, God.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep. I thought he was gonna say Candace. I thought he was gonna say Candace. I don't know why, but I thought it was like, it was you, Candace. And I was like. And then it was gonna be this amazing kind of like, I'm waiting for the moment of the. When I'm on the show, I get to take off my mask, and I notice the small, crumpled shoulder of one person where Alan had actually tapped them on the shoulder to pick them as a traitor. And you call out the perfect thing. Like, I thought that was this, like, I heard a laugh, and it was like, oh, he's gonna say Candace is getting. I was like, ugh.

[Angie Hicks]

And then.

[Ryder Strong]

Nope. No, Not a thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

No.

[Will Friedle]

Nope. Yeah. So it lined up perfectly with Colton's Tiffany theory.

[Ryder Strong]

Perfectly.

[Will Friedle]

Which means pretty much everybody just hopped on board for Tiffany, which. Yeah. I mean, I could see myself. Like, I would totally trust that because it actually has some logic.

[Ryder Strong]

Most people said it wasn't Colton either. A lot of people afterwards said. When I heard what Eric said, yeah, that's what made me change my vote. And so it's. You are looking for somebody who has. Here's the thing. They're looking for somebody who has solid evidence, unless it's coming from Ron, and then they. And then they don't care. Right. Yeah, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. And it's. It's, you know, like, Colton and Eric, like, the response after. Like this. If the. By the logic that they're going after Ron or they've gone after a lot of people, they should turn on Colton and Eric. And they don't.

[Ryder Strong]

Nope. Nope. At all. Although, spoiler alert. In later episodes. In a later episode, it seems like Colton's name is now starting to be thrown around a bit.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. But not Eric's.

[Will Friedle]

Not Eric, like, at all.

[Ryder Strong]

No, like.

[Will Friedle]

And, you know, actually, if he was a traitor, it would be a brilliant move to just get somebody out that you don't want.

[Ryder Strong]

Brilliant.

[Will Friedle]

You know, say this laugh thing. It's a great. God, I just don't know how I would play this game. I'd be so bad at it.

[Ryder Strong]

Dude, I don't think you would be. I honestly do not think you would be. I think you would get there, and I think you'd. Well, it depends. I think if you were a faithful, you would get there. You would let everything go. You'd enjoy your breakfast, you'd have fun with the challenges, and then you'd try to figure out what was going on. If you were a traitor, it might be a little rough for you because. Just because you don't like to lie to people.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So you'd figure it out, though. You'd figure it out. Well, we'll have to see when we play. Maybe we can be a team.

[Will Friedle]

So at this point, we're already an episode ahead. But do you remember who you thought would be murdered?

[Ryder Strong]

No, God, I don't. Do you remember who you thought would be murdered?

[Will Friedle]

I thought Steven actually did you or you kill Eric because everyone knows that he, you know, messed up, and so.

[Ryder Strong]

You mean not. Not banished. You mean murder?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So do we get through the banishment? We know it's Tiffany.

[Will Friedle]

Tiffany gets banished and of course reveals.

[Ryder Strong]

That she is to the circle of you and tells everybody that she is a faithful.

[Will Friedle]

What do you, what do you like? I mean, has anybody ever just stood there and been like, I'm a faithful, I'm a traitor and walked out or they always have to give something?

[Ryder Strong]

No, I think they always want to speak. I remember the one I remember the most was the first person kicked off last season was Wells Adams for you. You and I met Wells at one of the iHeart parties. He came to dinner with us. He's married to Sarah Hyland and he was on the Bachelor, I think, or one of these things, Survivor, something like that. And he was the first one to go and they just picked him. Like somebody went, I think it's Wells. And, and I remember him, he was pissed. Like, he was like, way to go, everybody. Nice job. Like, like that kind of thing. So, yeah, you could tell first person to leave. He was upset about it. But unlike Donna Kelsey, who was like, you did it. You caught a traitor.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

I think now people are really starting to get, are going to start getting more and more personal. And this was also the first time I had ever seen anybody in Tiffany say, I need the money. I know, I'd never heard that before.

[Will Friedle]

Well, it's interesting because it's not a whole lot of money just compared to other shows like Survivor, you get a million dollars, you know, and it's been that way forever. Like a lot of these shows, you know, I, I, it just seems like the money is not really the point of this show.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, right. But that's why I was amazed where she was like, like I'm crying and saying, I need the money.

[Will Friedle]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

So, yeah, it's, that was, I'd never seen that before. That was tough.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Especially because they were, they're celebrities. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Like the idea.

[Will Friedle]

Most of these people are probably pretty well off or. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But you never, you just never know. You never know.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. So Tiffany is banished and the traitors get together to discuss who they're gonna murder. And at this point, I did, I thought Steven would be the one to go.

[Ryder Strong]

I actually do remember who I picked. And I turned out I was right.

[Will Friedle]

Really, because.

[Ryder Strong]

Only because it's the only person to ever have one of the traitor's names cross their lips. That was the only, only time he'd ever heard it. So I was like, hey, if that person's up, they gotta go. That's what I would say, if I was a trader. It's like one person, my. Your name came out of one person's mouth. That person's gotta go. And then they even talk about, well, hopefully I'm the only one they took. Because he told it, this person told it to Candace.

[Angie Hicks]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

See, I had a feeling. I. Because, because Eric messed up so bad. Right. And I think it was pretty obvious that he felt bad.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And that it was, you know, that like I think murdering him. Because now I feel like he's. He's gonna work so hard to get everybody on his side and everyone's gonna be like, oh, he wouldn't, he's can't be a traitor. Like, you know, but why does he.

[Ryder Strong]

Get such a pass for that huge faux pas and Ron is still in the proverbial cage. Like, I don't understand it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. I think maybe Ron is just not. He's just not personable enough, you know.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe that's what it is. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I think he's just a little.

[Angie Hicks]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like you haven't gotten to know anybody. You haven't got. I don't know. And then. But it's also a double edged sword. It's like, oh, you're way too friendly. You've got to be a trader.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, what do you do? Where's the balance?

[Will Friedle]

That's what I think he's looking at it as like, oh, it's a strategy game. Let's play the strategy. And other people are like, it's a personality, social, mind game and I'm gonna play it that way. It's like, I don't know. That sucks.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know either.

[Will Friedle]

All right, any final thoughts before we end this episode?

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I have to ask you, we're now five in or four in. Excuse me, at the end of four, do you have any hot takes on who you think is going to win? Do you still. Are you sticking with. With your, your girl Natalie or who do you think, who do you think's there at the end?

[Will Friedle]

Oh, God. I mean, I'm starting to think the traders are just killing it. They're doing great.

[Angie Hicks]

Well.

[Will Friedle]

And now that they're more in control because really they're doing this well and they. Well, you know what it is? I don't even think that they're doing that well. I think the faithful are doing so poorly.

[Ryder Strong]

That's what it is that I think you're right. But I think it's a combination of the two. I think Ro is playing it very well. I think the Other. I think Candace has pulled it back a little bit, which is good, but I do. I don't. I think everybody else, when you're. Everybody's following somebody like Colton, which seems like what they're doing. And Colton keeps swinging. Wrong.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

He's just doing the work for the Traders. They don't have to do anything.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And, yeah, everybody's playing horribly on the faithful side. And so the, The. The Traders, I mean, I think they've been kind of lucky because all the. The Donna's choices for them for the murder, that were horrible. So they didn't actually get to have that much strategy in those first episodes, you know, but now that she's gone and that they are in control, no one's guessing them, no one's thinking about them, and they're all just all over the place. It's. It's. So I'm not feeling. I feel like there might be a trade or win.

[Ryder Strong]

It's definitely a possibility. I also would like to throw somebody out there as a hot take for being there at the end. I think people really like. And I do too, Johnny Weir. And I think there's a chance Johnny's there at or near the end of the game.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Flying under the radar. Funny. Personable people seem to like him. Nobody, I think, has said his name or come even close to saying his name. I think there's a chance that Johnny could be there towards the end.

[Will Friedle]

Well, so how does it work? Because I really like. If the Traders win, do they all win? Do they all three have to win or just like one trader has to win?

[Ryder Strong]

One trader is there at the end and that person gets all the money. If there's multiple traders at the end, they split it.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So that's. And it's. Yeah. It's like they stand around a fire, of course, because nothing can be easy. They stand around the fire, they get the blood of Truth. They take the blood of Truth to the Temple of Gollum. No, they. So they have. They stand around the fire and they all have to decide. We're all faithfuls here. I trust we're all faithfuls. Let's end the game. And then they, like, throw their thing into the fire to show, like, it's green or what, burns green or something. And it shows that the game is over. And so they're ready to go. And then they find out whether they're all faithfuls or whether some of the traders. So last season, four people were there and they were. They all made it. They were all faithfuls. But if one traders there and has fooled everybody, then that person gets all the money.

[Will Friedle]

So is it possible for just traders to be sure?

[Ryder Strong]

I would imagine. I mean, I, I don't know how that would happen. But if they murder everybody, they might.

[Will Friedle]

Look around and be like, everybody be like, we won.

[Ryder Strong]

We just won. What do we do now? So, yeah, it's so interesting. But I think you're right. I don't think they're playing particularly well. And I think the more personal and judgmental you get and the more you take it personally, the worse you play.

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

And I think that's we're gonna start seeing that more and more and more.

[Will Friedle]

Yes. Well, that's it for this episode of pod. Meets twirled, alliances were tested, trust misplaced. And once again, we've been left with a cliffhanger. Join us next time as we continue our journey through season four of Traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare a Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Angie Hicks]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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