Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 407

Summary

Pod Meets World – “Pod Meets Twirl’d: The Traitors 407”

Podcast: Pod Meets World
Hosts: Ryder Strong & Wil Friedle (with Hunter Woodhull guesting)
Release Date: January 30, 2026
Episode Summary: The hosts dive deep into episode 7 (“Black Banquet”) of season 4 of “The Traitors,” dissecting the game play, alliances, strategies, and wardrobe choices that make this week’s installment especially memorable. They oscillate between sharp analysis and comedic tangents, reflecting on what makes reality TV tick, the nature of charisma and talent, and their evolving favorites in the game.

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Main Theme & Purpose

The episode centers on a vivid breakdown of the latest “Traitors” episode, specifically the dramatic “Black Banquet” and the evolution of alliances and betrayals. Ryder and Will, joined by Hunter Woodhull, engage in lively debate about gameplay choices, the psychology of reality TV, and their nostalgia for 90s home game nights. As always, the duo blends sharp reality TV insight with their signature self-deprecating, playful banter.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Opening Banter & Social Media Overload

Timestamps: 02:25–05:00

• Ryder and Hunter discuss the onslaught of “Traitors” content in their social media feeds and the viral skits inspired by the show.
  • “Apparently I feel like I’m more [inundated with] Traitors content than I was getting Dancing with the Stars content.” —Hunter (03:31)
• Discussion of Ron Funches’ self-disclosed neurodivergence and Michael Rapaport’s public apology spree.
• Reflections on whether they should research contestants’ backgrounds, with an emphasis on separating player persona from real-life controversies.

2. The Nature of Talent vs. Charisma

Timestamps: 07:23–10:55

• Spirited debate about whether reality stars possess real talent, or simply charisma.
  • “Getting drunk and being a bitch and having the camera on you does not take any talent.” —Hunter (07:46)
  • “Can you take credit for charisma?... In some ways that’s a different conversation.” —Ryder (08:24)
• The trio distinguish between innate talent (acting, singing) and cultivated skills (charisma, social manipulation).
• Ryder ponders: is charisma worth rewarding, or inherently less valuable than “real” talent?

3. Black Banquet – Breakdown of the Epic Dinner

Timestamps: 11:01–24:52

• The team recaps the Black Banquet episode and the much-hyped “bombshell” that was more of a gameplay twist than a shocking reveal.
  • “The bombshell is that the faithful are finally learning how to play—but only because they’re listening to the traitor.” —Ryder (11:25)
• Rob is declared possibly the “best player” ever seen on the show.
  • “I personally think [Rob] is the best player I’ve ever seen. I think he’s phenomenal at this game.” —Hunter (11:40)
• The hosts delight in the theatrical outfits, especially Candace’s “gold Medusa dress” and Lisa’s “Stay Puft Marshmallow Man” ensemble.
  • “She looked like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters.” —Ryder (13:10)
• Evaluation of Lisa’s murder move and strategic choices regarding who to target.
• Alan Cumming’s Liberace-inspired wardrobe draws special notice.
  • “Elton John would have looked at him and been like, you know what, buddy? Little much—pull it back.” —Hunter (15:55)

4. Game Analysis: Antidotes, Twists, and Paranoia

Timestamps: 16:32–28:13

• Twist introduced: players can use a magic antidote/elixir to “save” someone from murder.
  • “This is my world. Murder mystery party stuff. I love it.” —Ryder (16:33)
• Paranoia dominates the gameplay. Jam Jam points to Lisa as the traitor, but for the wrong reasons, spurring hilarious and chaotic logic.
  • “Every instinct [Tara Lipinski] has had is wrong. Every single one.” —Ryder (23:59)
• Discussion about the strategic decision to “go big” if you’re in danger, like Lisa targeting Kristen or Natalie.
• Rob’s logic and ability to emotionally detach are lauded.

5. Roundtable & Alliance Strategies

Timestamps: 28:13–36:30

• Rob’s surgical dissection of the Lisa situation stands out.
  • “He does everything so logically. He’s, you know, he’s basically saying, like, Jam Jam had no reason to lie—which is exactly right.” —Ryder (28:19)
• Evaluation of votes, alliance shifts, and the recurring blunders of certain players (for example, Candace alienating herself by voting for Rob).
  • “It was truly astounding how bad of a move that was.” —Ryder (41:59)

6. Impressions of the Mission & ‘Dagger’ Twist

Timestamps: 30:49–38:44

• Overview of the game mechanics: collecting gold, “dagger” for extra votes, and the confusing structure of the challenges.
  • “The urn must be given to the third traitor’s cousin... What the hell is happening?” —Hunter (31:21)
• Rob’s successful acquisition of the dagger gives him further sway, and his transparency in sharing it with others cements his alliances.

7. Predicting Enlistments, Endgame, and ‘Traitor’ History

Timestamps: 43:39–48:05

• Predictions on who might be recruited as the next Traitor, with debate over Colton’s prospects versus under-the-radar picks like Kristen.
• Hunter delivers a short history lesson—this week featuring treachery from the Song Dynasty:
  • “In the region where Fei is buried, there are statues of Qin [Hui] and his wife bound and on their knees, where people can express their disregard... A Mount Rushmore of shame.” —Hunter (49:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I wanted to judge them based on basically how they were on screen in this context…” —Ryder (05:54)
• “I just lose interest...when they come in with these larger-than-life personalities—these crafted television personas.” —Ryder (06:59)
• “Being charismatic and being the kid who can walk into a party and have everybody's attention is different than someone handing you a scene and cold reading, hitting the beats... that's a talent that's innate.” —Hunter (09:26)
• “Every move this guy’s making is the right one.” —Hunter on Rob (32:58)
• “It looks like everybody else is playing checkers and he’s playing chess.” —Hunter (47:26)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:25 – Show proper begins; intro to “Traitors” discussion and Twitter memes
• 11:01 – Discussion of “Black Banquet” episode begins in earnest
• 15:47 – Banquet fashion analysis (Candace's & Lisa's outfits)
• 21:20 – Paranoia and strategic debates around the antidote and dinner game
• 28:13 – Rob’s daylight strategic maneuvers and alliance-building dissected
• 36:00 – Rob acquires and wields the "dagger" twist
• 41:19 – Candace’s blunder and voting analysis
• 43:39 – Predictions for new traitors and discussion of gamesmanship
• 47:26 – “Chess vs. checkers” analogy for Rob’s gameplay
• 48:05 – “History of Traitors” (Qin Hui of Song Dynasty) segment

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Tone & Style

The conversation stays light, quick-witted, and meta, seamlessly blending critical TV analysis with nostalgic 90s humor, insider references, and a clear love for the absurd. The hosts improvise, riff on each other, and never miss a chance to poke fun at both themselves and the genre.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of “Pod Meets World” offers a hilarious and insightful dive into “The Traitors,” delivering plenty of laughs, sharp analysis, and memorable banter. With passionate dissections of strategy, giddy appreciation for Alan Cumming’s wardrobe, and questions about what makes someone truly talented (or just a compelling TV character), it’s as much a reflection on reality TV itself as it is on who might win the game.

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Perfect for:

• Fans who want a sharp play-by-play of “The Traitors” S4E7
• Listeners who appreciate 90s nostalgia, playful tangents, and reality TV analysis
• Anyone wondering what makes compelling reality TV—and how talent, charisma, and gameplay intersect on a show built on betrayal

Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Hunter Woodhull]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

Welcome to POD meets twirl the podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Danc with the Stars, but took it on and walked away. Experts. So now we turn to Traitors. Another show I've never seen. While Will is convinced he could win it, we are Wilfred L. And Ryder Strong. Two best friends. One a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars join us as we step into a castle full of lies, alliances, and over the top wardrobe choices. This is Pod meets twirled Trading Places.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I don't know why I'm still in the cloak. I gotta be totally honest with you.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

It's like you either have to keep it on the Internet, entire episode doesn't make.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Can I tell you what I wanted to wear today? And I thought I was going to be able to pull it off, and it turns out I got rid of them. I was just going to do my overalls with nothing underneath.

[Ryder Strong]

Ah, yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I can't find them, so I must have just given. Given them away.

[Ryder Strong]

Have overalls. I used to. They're the best.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I don't know where they are now.

[Ryder Strong]

So I don't know if you've experienced this. I've sent you a couple things because my Instagram feed is just. And there's a lot of Trader content out there in the world, man.

[Hunter Woodhull]

This is like. Apparently I feel like I'm more traitors content than I was getting Dancing with the Stars content.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I think. I think I'm gonna. Yeah. My favorite was that skit that I sent you, which was a husband and wife couple doing what breakfast is like, at their house. Oh, God, I didn't see that one. I didn't see it.

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[Ryder Strong]

It's like, what if their husband comes home from work? Like the way that they show up at breakfast for, you know, after somebody's been murdered. And so they do this whole like. Like, she's eating. And then he walks in and they just keep zooming in, and they keep zooming in on the tail of their dog wagging, just making a hu. And then right at the end, he goes, is that the last of the smoked salmon?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, yeah.

[SpinQuest Advertiser]

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[Hunter Woodhull]

Brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

Brilliant. I was like, will, we should have done this skit. We should have done that.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, we gotta start doing Trader skits. We really do. We really do.

[Ryder Strong]

But, yeah, but I've been getting all the Ron funches stuff because apparently he's now diagnosed as on the spectrum. Right. Which is super interesting.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And he's kind of saying like, hey, you called it, like, I guess the audience is the one that, like, pointed it out.

[Ryder Strong]

To him and super interesting.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, yeah. And then obviously, the Michael Rappaport apology tour is everywhere.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, is he? I haven't been getting that. I've just been getting more brawn. And then, like, I said skits about it. And, like, honestly, like, I just try and, like, I don't want to linger too long on this stuff because I want my feed to diversify, you know?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Well, you're going to have a bunch of different points of views about traders, so that is. That is diversified. It's brilliant. You're going to get a lot of different things.

[Ryder Strong]

So, I mean, I don't want to, Like, I don't know why, but I have this stupid idea that I kind of want to stick to the show more than, like, the exterior content, because I felt the same with Dancing with the Stars. Like, I don't want to get. But so Michael Rapperboard is apologizing finally.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Like, yeah, he apparently went out and said that he and Colton are cool, and then he's, you know, was taken out of context or he didn't. Yeah, he's kind of apologizing everywhere now.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, well. Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I don't know.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I guess we caught some heat. A little bit of heat, too, because we called out a bunch of Rappaport stuff, but we didn't call out any of Colton. And I guess Colton has a pretty.

[Ryder Strong]

Sketchy past, too, which I have no idea about.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I didn't either. I didn't know about my. I didn't know about either of them, frankly. I'm just so not in the know of any of this stuff that I had no idea about any. I just. I don't. And maybe I should be doing my due diligence, but at the same time, I'm not gonna deep dive every single person. We talk about it on a reality show. I'm just not. So it's. You know, I had no idea about any of this stuff. I just.

[Ryder Strong]

I feel like the more I know about people, especially with Dancing with the Stars, this is certainly the case, the more I know it kind of took away from me being able to root for them on the show or root against. Like, I didn't want. I wanted to judge them based on.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Thank you.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, basically how they were on screen in this context, so. And, like, it's. You know, with traitors, it's really a show about, you know, showing your personality or not, you know, like, that's your choice. So I feel like, you know, I kind of want to take it on its own. Its own terms.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But maybe.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe that's not fair. I don't know.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I don't know either. I also know that I've read enough stuff about myself on the Internet that isn't true. And I would say 85% of it isn't true to where I just don't believe anything I read. So it's like, oh, this happened. And this happened. It's like, okay, I don't know. I don't know. And I don't believe.

[Ryder Strong]

My bottom line right now is that I really wish Traitors was not celebrities, you know?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Well, that'll be next season.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And I'm totally like. I think I just, like, I've decided that that's the way the show. Because the whole point of the show is about judging character. And so when they come in with like these larger than life personality. These crafted television personalities.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

I just lose interest, you know, And I realize that people do that now anyway. Like on reality shows, they come on with a plan and a sort of character, but at least that's the game. Do you know what I mean? It's like that's what they're coming here to do. They're not bringing the extra baggage of so many other Housewives shows or Love island or. Yeah, but this is the world.

[Hunter Woodhull]

This is the entertainment world without talent. So it's just. I am my own brand. This is my character. I'm me.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's like, okay, well, it's arguable if there's a talent, right?

[Hunter Woodhull]

I mean, no, I don't think it's arguable at all.

[Ryder Strong]

You don't think being good at Traders is a talent?

[Hunter Woodhull]

I think being good at a game is a talent. I don't think being on the Real Housewives of anything takes any talent whatsoever.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I don't know about.

[Hunter Woodhull]

There's. It's a reality. It takes no talent to be on the real world. It takes no talent to be on any of these Housewives shows.

[Ryder Strong]

That's not a talent.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Getting drunk and being a bitch and having the camera on you does not take any talent.

[Ryder Strong]

But what about just like charisma, you know, which.

[Hunter Woodhull]

That's different than talent. There's some people that are. That are generally more charismatic than other people's. That's not an innate talent. I mean, there are people. It's like singing, dancing, acting. These are talents. These are things you can cultivate, you can work at. Hey, I'm. I'm. A character is not a talent.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I. Honestly, I mean, I like, I.

[Hunter Woodhull]

My.

[Ryder Strong]

My impulse is to Agree with you.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

But I honestly like, want to leave space for the idea. Like, I want to think about this more because I like this question. Like, because is charisma worth rewarding? I mean, cause in some ways that's a different conversation.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Is charisma worth rewarding? Sure, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But I mean, like, can you take credit for charisma? Maybe that's another way to put it. Like, you know, if you're a charismatic person, like, isn't that in part because you have good social skills and you've honed them and you've understood like how to, like how to make yourself likable and all that? And so I would think of that as a talent.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, see, I don't. I think of that as a skill. See, that's the thing. And talent and skill are two different things. Yeah, I think you're born with talent. Like, if you can't sing, you can't sing. You can't learn how to sing. You can take singing lessons for the rest of your life, you can't sing. You just were not born with the ability to do that. Now if you can sing a little bit, you can take classes and get better, but you, if you can't sing, you can't sing.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know if I'm as black and white as you.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I absolutely am. I'm very hard nosed when it comes to talent because the idea of nowadays is everybody's special, so no one.

[Ryder Strong]

But what about acting?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Acting as a talent?

[Ryder Strong]

So you were born with your talent 100%. You worked hard at it or got better at it.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But I was. Have you, have you. How many child actors do you know that were charismatic but couldn't act?

[Ryder Strong]

Myself?

[Hunter Woodhull]

No, see, I disagree. You didn't like your acting, but you could act. And the more classes you took, you got better at your craft, at your talent. We worked with plenty of people, plenty of kids that were charismatic and could remember the lines and knew where to stand but couldn't act. Those are two very different things. Being charismatic and being the kid who can walk into a party and have everybody's attention is different than then someone handing you a scene and cold reading, hitting the beats, knowing how to break down a scene, That's a talent that's innate and that's something I think you're born with. It's just like singing. If you have the talent, you can get better at it. If you don't, you can work all day, but you're never gonna.

[Ryder Strong]

The way you're talking about this, I think I Want to reverse it? In my mind, I think you're born with charisma or, like, a likability factor, and then you have to work hard to get the actual, like, acting skill.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Now, see, And I disagree 100% there. That's why there's people that are 2 and 3 and 4 years old that used to be on Star Search, 5 years old that could grab a microphone and sing. That's not something they learned at three years old. Tiger Woods. There's an innate talent that is inbred in you that then can be cultivated. But. And then. And then you can get it. We can get into conversations of healthy cultivation versus unhealthy cultivation. But if you can't sing, your mom and dad can beat you up forever. You ain't ever gonna learn how to sing.

[Ryder Strong]

I definitely. I definitely agree in terms of pitch, like, the ability to hear, like, your ear, you know, but.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Or carry a tune. There's plenty of people who just can't sing.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know, man. All right, that's fine. I'm thinking about it some more because I'm.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Please do.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm not completely against you. I just. I gotta, like, absorb and think about it. Please do. None of this has anything to do with traitors.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Episode seven, the Black Banquet.

[Capella University Advertiser]

Oof.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, so back to our meta. You know, meta information conversation. You sort of insinuated before we watched this episode that there was gonna be some big bombshell.

[Hunter Woodhull]

There was supposed to be.

[Ryder Strong]

Alan Cumming was talking about this for months, but there wasn't. It didn't. Nothing. Nothing really that big. Okay.

[Hunter Woodhull]

No, it was a fun episode.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, it was a great episode. If anything, the bombshell is that the faithful are finally learning how to play the game, but they're only learning how.

[Hunter Woodhull]

To play the game because they're listening to the traitor.

[Ryder Strong]

I. So is. How does Rob compare to the traitors of the past? Because he's.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I personally think he's the best player I've ever seen. I think he's phenomenal at this game.

[Ryder Strong]

Every time. I think, like, last time, I thought he was slipping a little, turning on Lisa because of his brilliance to Ron, but now I'm like, dude, this guy's like. He is poised to just crush everybody in this game.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I don't know if he's brilliant, which I think he is, or everyone else is just terrible, just dumb, which I think is possible. Every time I hear, like, Tara Lipinski, where she's like, I'm going to go with my. I'm like, that's gonna be wrong. I know. So there's some people that just don't have that instinct. And he is crushing it.

[Ryder Strong]

He is crushing it.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So, okay, so they left us hanging last time with this idea that they had to, at this banquet, do a murder in plain sight with the amulet, which I love this whole setup. This is so fun.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's so rider strong. Right?

[Ryder Strong]

Dude, it's like. It's just murder mystery party stuff. I love it. And the favorite. Yes. But, man, I thought the outfits. This is. I mean, this is it. They have this opera music and everybody gets an entrance and man, and the outfits.

[Hunter Woodhull]

My God. The Candace in the gold medusa dress.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. I thought it was more egyptian, but you're going medusa. I thought it was, like, snakes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I thought it was. It could have been Egyptian, but it.

[Ryder Strong]

Was like, what are you wearing? I never got a good look at it. I kept just being like, who's wearing that thing? And then. Oh, my God. And then Lisa in this, like, sailor. I'm just going to say it. She looked like the state puff marshmallow man. Ghostbusters.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It was like.

[Ryder Strong]

And then she's like. And she's like this. She looks like that.

[Hunter Woodhull]

She's all puffed up. And she's like, I'm rocking the room. I was like with laughter. What's happening?

[Ryder Strong]

What's happening? She did she.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

She looked like the sleepover. She did because remember, he has, like, a doily thing over. He was like, just the. And she has like that with the amulet or on it or the clasp on it. I was dying. I was like, oh, my God.

[PennyMac Mortgage Announcer]

It's the state puff marshmallow.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Lisa, state puff. Rena.

[Hunter Woodhull]

State puff state.

[Ryder Strong]

I am stay puff state puff. All right, so she zeros in on yam yam, Kristen or natalie. And we, you know, they insinuate that she kind of targets them all so we don't get to know who got murdered. Did you have any guesses at this point who she was, who she would've picked?

[Hunter Woodhull]

I figured she was actually gonna go for your. Your favorite.

[Ryder Strong]

Natalie.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Natalie. I thought she was gonna. I thought she was gonna hit up natalie. But at the same time, she was like, see, this is where I would think to myself, if I got voted last week, I was one vote away from. From leaving. Then my. Your time is numbered. So take out the person you want to take out as even just to you. And that would have been colton. She's like, it would have come back on me. It doesn't matter. Your Time is numbered. When that many people are already thinking about you, you're not change seven people's minds. So just take out the biggest player that you want to take out and. And go out with with a revenge killing because you're. You're done. Essentially. You've got one day left.

[Ryder Strong]

That's an interesting move. So I thought she should have gone for Kristen because Kristen, I think, is a good player and she's flying under the radar.

[Hunter Woodhull]

She's so cool.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. I just want to keep seeing her. She's so cool. Honestly, that's what I assumed that she had done. I thought she just went for Kristen because yam Yam's already been, like, discussed about being, you know, murdered. Like, he's not really a threat in any way.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Like, you want him around. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Whereas, like, Kristen is, like a. Kristen and Natalie are both trying to be strategic in ways.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, yeah. It's tough. It's tough because it's. Yeah. I don't know what you're playing, who you're playing against, what the point is. And they also made it look like at any time, anybody could have just walked up and been like, hey, nice brooch. Like, you know, could have killed anybody just randomly by accident. So it's. Yeah, they. I think the idea of don't touch anybody, don't do anything. It was the smart way to go. But, yeah, that didn't. That didn't last.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so then the group sits down for dinner, and Alan shows up looking like Liberace's chandelier.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, my God. It's the best thing ever.

[Ryder Strong]

Dripping in jewels and the kiss. Jeweled kilts, like pearls on the side. It was just. Yeah, yeah. This is my favorite.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Elton John would have looked at him and been like, you know what, buddy?

[Ryder Strong]

Little much? Pull it back, Pull it back.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Pull it back just a little bit, my friend. Pull it back a little bit, my friend. Yeah, but he's fabulous, and I just want to have a cup of coffee with him.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

I really do.

[Ryder Strong]

He goes on to tell the story of James ii, King James, and that they're gonna murder somebody right there or that somebody's already been murdered. And then twist. He explains that the group has the ability for two saves with this, with an antidote, like, potion and a magic elixir.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Now you're talking my world.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. I was so into this. Yeah, this was great. Yeah. I was like, this is a great twist. And, like, that. That makes the whole murder in plain sight even more interesting. Although, you know, we gotta do.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'm just. I'm sorry but I'm just thinking about we've gotta do get all of our 90s friends together and do a 90s home game one night traders.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Like we'll get everybody step by step. Full house.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, just do rounds of Murder, Family Matters.

[Hunter Woodhull]

We'll just get everybody and we'll just.

[Ryder Strong]

Pick each other off one by one.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yes, that'll be great.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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[Hunter Woodhull]

And I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Hunter Woodhull]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA.

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[Ryder Strong]

So pretty. Like, immediately this devolves into chaos.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Jam. Jam points to Lisa right away, which is amazing because he's right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

But for the wrong reasons, because he says, you kissed me. So I. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's just an instinctual thing or if he really did just thought the kiss was weird. What he had actually done is touched her clasp, which is great.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Great.

[Ryder Strong]

I can't believe he didn't remember that.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Perfect.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Nobody even mentioned it again.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. Yeah, I know. They never caught it. No. Yeah. And. And then they really. They zeroed in on, you know, Jam. Jam said the kiss thing, which was right. But then kind of got railroaded by everybody else pointing out the food situation. And I thought, you know, Kristen had been eaten. Eaten off a tray. Tara had been. Had eaten turkey that she didn't. Or she'd been served turkey that she didn't want. Which is a good way of thinking. Like, that's evidence.

[Hunter Woodhull]

You know. It is.

[Ryder Strong]

And then Natalie had also been served, but, man, she fought for that. And this is when it clicked to me. Oh, if you're a traitor, the best move to do is just insist on the antidote.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

You got to get that antidote.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And none of them did.

[Ryder Strong]

None of them did. I was like, guys, you gotta, you know, but it did backfire on Natalie that she went for it. But, like, if I saw Natalie going that strong, then I would probably make a case for myself and then back down and let her go, you know? But, like, if you're a traitor, it's a good. It's a good sign that you're a traitor if you want the antidote.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, of course. But it's also. It just this. This night, more than, you know any so far, and especially around the table so far, shows that one of the main characters in this show is paranoia. And it's just so great where you're just so. It's like, wait a second.

[Ryder Strong]

But you.

[Hunter Woodhull]

You held your fork in your left hand, and before you held your foot.

[Ryder Strong]

You'D just be thinking of everything.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It would be so. Like, every minutiae. It would drive you crazy.

[Ryder Strong]

So bad because I just tap out. I would just be like, it's not worth it. Like. Like later in this episode, when they're watching, when Rob's doing his whole, like, lying thing, I'm like, I would never be able to do this. Like, I just think he also did it right. He is a human lie detector, this guy. But that was actually the. What I thought, too.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But I thought it was.

[Ryder Strong]

It was so bad that it was like, yeah, she couldn't have been that obvious. And it turns out she was.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It was. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I couldn't believe it.

[Hunter Woodhull]

That was.

[Ryder Strong]

Anyway, we'll get there.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, we'll get that.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. So, yeah, Natalie makes a big scene, just kind of grabs the antidote and downs it under the time pressure. And then Jam. Jam is murdered. And the guards drag him away, and he immediately is like, lisa, Lisa, Lisa, kiss me, Lisa, kiss me.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Like, dragging him to the gallows.

[Ryder Strong]

Lisa, kiss me. It was Liz. Tristan totally sealed her fate.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I mean, like, it's the best, though, to be able to see the. The faithful being pulled out and them getting to interact. No, like, getting to interact where they can point to someone and be like, she did it.

[Ryder Strong]

She did it. Such a big move. It's so cool.

[Hunter Woodhull]

My guess, and I could totally be wrong, but my guess is that was the thing that Alan. Alan was talking about was literally a faithful being dragged out, being able to talk and yelling, this is who did it. This is who did it. Is probably the one he was talking about.

[Ryder Strong]

Talking about. Yeah. Yeah. It had to be, right?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, Kristen's argument was about this card flipping thing, which made a lot of sense. So she got to drink the antidote and then breakfast. Next morning, the train Wait, we first.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Of all talk about Tara Lipinski, who was absolutely convinced that she was gonna die.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

So she was like. And again, so far, every instinct this. This woman has had is wrong. Every single one.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, I also thought that Jam Jam would have made more of a scene, like, because he said the thing about Lisa. But he's one. He's thought that he's going to get murdered every. Remember, he cried. He's, like, really been worried about it all the time. So I thought he was just gonna be like, give me the editor, please. They're definitely gonna take me out. But he didn't. He just got.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And it happens later, too, because I watched it with Susan, and Sue was like, I don't think Natalie understands that they're not actually going to kill her. Like. Cause she takes it so seriously, and.

[Ryder Strong]

She'S so scared about it that you.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Realize you're just off the show. Right. You don't get brought into a back room and stabbed. So, yeah, it was. She's not actually gonna die.

[Ryder Strong]

She gets that.

[Cindy Crawford]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so breakfast. The next morning, they just have the traitors so they can powwow. Smart. And this is when, you know, the first sort of confrontation about Rob, you know, turning on Lisa. He defends his vote admirably, I think.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I think he's right. I'm sorry. I still think he's. When you have. And I would love to have seen. Which is what I would have done. I would love to have seen him find a moment with Candace, just the two of them, where he's like, look.

[Ryder Strong]

Six people voted for her.

[Hunter Woodhull]

She's done.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Anybody who defends her now is gonna be thought to be a traitor. She's dragging us down. Let's cut ties, get her out, and start clean.

[Ryder Strong]

Knows that Candace and Lisa are just too tight.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I know.

[Ryder Strong]

But knows that if. Yeah, because if she. Because all it would take is him to say that. And then Candace goes to Lisa, and then they. The two of them, work the roundtable to banish him. Right?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Then my guess, that it would have backfired. And I think Candace. Candace wants to win bad enough to be. I think she would have listened if he's like, look, nobody said your name. Nobody said my name. Six people voted for her. She's a sea anchor right now. We've got to cut her loose or the whole ship is going down.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I think she would have. I think she would have understood that.

[Ryder Strong]

What's interesting.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, she's playing horribly, horribly, horribly.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And people are starting to Call her out.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. So the others. The other group, the rest of the. The team starts showing up in. In groups for breakfast. Not much to talk about because they all were there. They all just kind of rehash it. There's this whole Lisa slightly defending herself but not doing a very good job, as usual. Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's just bad. It's really bad.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And Colton. Colton decides that he's going to, like, take a back seat, which I think was smart. Ended up kind of not being the case because he just pounced at roundtable. But he did keep. For the rest, most of the day, he kept like, he didn't point fingers. He stopped playing as aggressively as he has been, which I thought was really some people.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I don't want to point any fingers pointing right at myself. Some people can't not be the center of attention when they're around a group of people. And Colton's one of those people. I'm one of those people. Like, I just feel like, oh, here's a captive audience. Time to take the stage. And some people just can't. They wake up in the morning going, just keep your mouth shut today. Just keep your mouth shut today. And it doesn't last.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Candace starts making moves towards Natalie, which is. Seems like the natural thing for her to do. And then I cannot believe the amount of misspeaking in this show. Natalie says, we murdered. And I'm like, that's, like, the third time that this happened this season when.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I was a traitor in the tower and I had that guy stabbed. Like, wait, that was.

[Ryder Strong]

No.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And then they're not traitors.

[Ryder Strong]

It's this one. She corrects herself pretty much immediately. She's like, I vanished. And I was like, oh, I could Now. I could see that confusion. But, like, guys, keep it together. Come on.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And Lisa grabbed it right away. She's like, oh, thank God. Then somebody I can grab onto this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. So I think my support for Natalie has been.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's waning.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. She's not playing very well, you know, like, she's just not thinking things all the way through. It's like, yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Whereas, remember, if you go back to the black banquet, Kristen the whole time was like, let him fight it out.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, I don't want.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'm not gonna win like this. I don't need the potion. I'm good. And then they grabbed it and handed it to her, like, no, you're taking. So, I mean, if she was a traitor, which we know she's not, she's playing it brilliantly. If she's a faithful, she's kind of voting pretty well and she's going under the radar. There's a chance that Kristen's got an opportunity to be there at the end. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

In another conversation, Robb completely just throws Lysa under the bus.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, in a great way, too.

[Ryder Strong]

He does everything so logically. I know. And he's, you know, he's basically saying, like, Jam. Jam had no reason to lie, which is exactly right. Like, you know.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah. And what he says at the end. Yeah. What he says at the end at the roundtable where he's like, look, I'm a faithful. I know I'm a faithful. I'm the only one I know for a fact is a faithful. The only other person I 100 know is Jam. Jam. And it's like, brilliant. He's like, you know, because I got to talk to somebody who's obviously a faithful as they're being led to the.

[Ryder Strong]

Gallows, and I should listen to that.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Person, and that's the person I should listen to.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's a good argument.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, it's so great.

[Ryder Strong]

Great.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's so great. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, the thing for. For me about Lisa's entire defense, this whole day is like, why didn't she just say, oh, yeah, I kissed him, but I kissed everybody? Like, she does this. Like, she does this half thing where she says, I didn't. Or what does she say? She says, I air kissed. I didn't actually kiss.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I air kiss everybody. Right.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's like he's saying that she actually kissed. Kissed him.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So why.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I. She might. She should have just been like, I. I don't remember that. Maybe I did. I don't know. I kissed some people. I did. And that's when Candace then should have jumped in and be like, well, you kissed me on the cheek, too. Instead of her saying, oh, no, you air kissed me and backing up the lie, she should have backed up Jam Jam by saying, no, she kissed me too. So it can't be that because then I'd be dead too.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

So that's how you protect your traitor. But she didn't. She went the other way.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's like this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And if Lisa had just said, I definitely kissed him, but I'm, you know, she sets it up so it's her word against Jam Jam, basically. As opposed to, like, she said, I only air kissed him. And then it's like, well, then you're either. He's completely lying and he's the one that died. So Yeah. I don't know, man.

[Hunter Woodhull]

So that's all Candace needed to say was like, yeah, yeah. No, she kissed me too. Like, yeah. And then I bet you. Because Dorinda seems like she's like, everyone has to wake her up in the morning and remind her she's there.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I think Dorinda probably would have been like, she kissed me too.

[Ryder Strong]

Reminded that Dorinda's from the game.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Exactly. Dorinda's in.

[Ryder Strong]

Terry, Tara are by far the, like, the weaker players. Just sort of like going with the group, not making any moves, not even trying.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But that's the thing. Dorinda is just there, like a leaf on the wind. Like, kind of just there. And again, you got a poker to go. Like, hey, we're in a game. Whereas Tara is trying and just everything she's doing is wrong. So it's like, I love it. She'll stand up, she'll be like, so here's what I think. And before she even says it, I'm like, it's going to be exactly the opposite of what's actually. Actually happening. Right. So, yeah, her and Johnny playing a much different game. They're trying to sal their way into our lives, and I'm not sure it's working.

[Ryder Strong]

And then the mission and this one, it starts off and I was like, ready to, like, get the convoluted speech, but it actually starts off pretty simple. I was like, oh, we get the gold. I run up the hill, whoever has the most gold. I was like, great. And then it's like, nope. Dagger earns just again. You can throw every third piece of gold at every fourth back into the pocket. And if you see a leprechaun, then he gets half your gold, but an eighth of your silver.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And what is happening after you bring the gold? You must smelt it, bring it down and make a small statue of an urn. The urn must be given to the third traitor's cousin. Like, what the hell is happening?

[Ryder Strong]

I know, man, it's the best. But this whole notion of a dagger is really cool.

[Hunter Woodhull]

That's cool. I think this was last year, too. I think they did something similar. Maybe not. I don't know. They all blend, I think. I don't remember someone getting too.

[Ryder Strong]

It's very Survivor ish. Because Survivor, so you get an extra vote. That's like an old Survivor rule that people. People can get that. So, yeah, I thought this was really interesting. And then when they. Yeah, when it started and it was just like a race, I was like, this is kind of an unfair, you know, Exactly. Like Lisa points out, she's like, we got football players.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

We got guys in their, like, late 20s.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'm not putting my fake gold on Dorinda. I gotta be honest with you. So it's. You know what I mean? It's like, if I got a gamble, I'm gonna go with the guy who catches alligators by hand.

[Ryder Strong]

They didn't explain the game very well because the idea at the end that you could put your pool at all. Yes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So you, like. Do you think they knew that and we just didn't know it, or did none of them know that?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Maybe. I don't know. I don't know how.

[Ryder Strong]

It didn't seem like they might have explained it. I don't know each other and been like, I'll give you all my gold. You know, like, I'll give you my gold. And you promised to, you know, they could have made alliances, but instead they just have to, like, get up there with their gold and see how it goes. Yeah, it was a weird, weird little game. But I love the dagger element. I think that's a cool.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And the way he played it too.

[Ryder Strong]

At the end is so brilliant. Oh, my God.

[Hunter Woodhull]

He's. Every move this guy's making is the right one.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

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[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Broken Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures hi, I'm.

[Cindy Crawford]

Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're gonna get results, and then you.

[Cindy Crawford]

Just go out and live your life. Meaningful Beauty confidence is beautiful. Learn [e-mail].

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Hunter Woodhull]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA.

[PennyMac Mortgage Announcer]

And you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act, Conditions and restrictions.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so Lisa gives her gold to Steven and.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And then, anyway, Rob gets the most gold.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which is unbelievable. What an amazing move. Like, just.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And so likable.

[Ryder Strong]

He's so likable.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And he's now gotten traders out. So everybody's like, this is. Yeah, this is the guy. Like, he is playing well. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So then they do this weird, like, roundtable of tablets, which I, again, I was like, why couldn't the person who has the dagger just say to Rob, I have it. I'm not lying. I'm not gonna lie to you. You can take it from me. I'll give it to you. Because I want to be honest with you. I'm a faithful and I have the dagger. Wouldn't that have been a good move?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Well, that's what he did. Yeah. Brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

Once he has it, he's like, let's make a pact and we won't tell anybody.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah. And he's like, hey, I just want you all to know, I'm a faithful. I have the dagger. But that'll put a big deal.

[Ryder Strong]

If you're a faithful, why would you ever lie to Another faithful, and you make that your game in this moment. Right? Like, you just get the dagger if you have it. You say, I do have the dagger, and you can have it, Rob, because that's how committed I am to convincing you that I'm faithful.

[Hunter Woodhull]

And it's also. Everyone thinks he's a faithful, too. So it's like, yeah, I'm giving it to the most powerful one. This guy obviously commands a lot of weight. I have the dagger. Take it. We're good.

[Ryder Strong]

But I don't know. That's the only move I've come up with in this entire season so far that I think is a good move. And I think this is the only good move, because the whole line thing, I'm just bad at. I don't know why. That's the same time Natalie knows her.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Name has been thrown out, so she wants every edge that she could possibly get. So getting that second vote could have kept her in the game.

[Ryder Strong]

This is a game that's set up for them to lie to each other in a. In a bigger game where the whole point is it's a. You lose this smaller game to win the bigger game.

[Hunter Woodhull]

You know what I mean? Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly what Rob does when he wins it. But it's just. It was a weird setup to me. I was like, I don't think they're thinking this through all the way. They're, like, doing this poker standoff, and it's like. But that's actually about your ability to lie. Like, that's not a good thing to showcase.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's weird. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of.

[Ryder Strong]

There's so many moves within moves. I mean, if I was Natalie, I would point to this and say, see, he called me in a moment that I lied. I'm such a bad liar. I am a faithful. You can trust me. Because he, you know, like, use this to your advantage. Like, I'm a shitty liar. Which she kind of is.

[Hunter Woodhull]

She's terrible. She actually would be a great way. Yeah. She's like, it's not mine. Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't have it. Don't know what you're talking about. Won't make eye contact. Steven was the other one. I was thinking, because he did a weird, like, shed shake right when he looks like, no, let me. Let me show you how much I'm not. I don't have the dagger.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I don't have it.

[Ryder Strong]

I was like. But when she went through this, I was like, would it be that obvious? And it turns out it is.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Some people just can't lie.

[Ryder Strong]

I thought Rob had at least a strategy. I don't know if I believe that you can always tell if people are lying that easily. I don't know if I can.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I mean, not that he's like, I'm a human lie detector. Oh, no. See, I don't trust everybody. I am pretty good with knowing when people are lying.

[Ryder Strong]

Really?

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

There have definitely been people that I feel like are. Are bad actors in life.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, like. But that usually it's just about their ability to express themselves. It's not about, like, subterfuge or.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, yeah. But you don't pick up on a lot of it. I mean, literally. Literally nothing I've told you about myself is true. In the 30 years I've known you, really?

[Ryder Strong]

It's been a long con. A long con to get to this.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yep. Not a single thing I've told you. Yes.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

So. And you haven't picked up on a single actress. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. You've been Truman Showing my entire friendship.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Your entire friendship has been fake. None of this is real.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Can you imagine?

[Ryder Strong]

What a movie.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's the long game, my friend.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so then, yeah, Rob does this great thing, tells them all he has a dagger. Brilliant. And they, you know.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

They make this pact. And then he tries to rally against Lisa and does it with facts. He does it with facts. It's brilliant. It's.

[Hunter Woodhull]

He's.

[Ryder Strong]

And he's just.

[Hunter Woodhull]

He's going like, look, I. I'm. I'm just taking emotion out of everything. And if I just look at this, this, and this, it just points to her.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But you guys do whatever you want. And it's just kind of the way that he does it is so perfect.

[Ryder Strong]

So brilliant. Yeah. So that's basically what the round table, you know, I mean, Colton, who's already sort of given the Lisa argument and they knew it was coming, and he, you know, he delivers that. Johnny immediately begins his Natalie argument, He says because they couldn't both be cursed, which is because they were both served the food. Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

And yet she insisted on herself. And so, you know, which is. It's an argument. It makes sense. Right. Like, you protested too much to get that antidote, which would have been a good move if you're a traitor. But Colton's Lisa argument is good. And then Robb turns big nail in the coffin.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But he also. They say, do you. Okay. The person with the dagger, raise your hand if you want to cast two votes tonight. And he just keeps his mouth shut. And it's brilliant because now he's got it in his back pocket and he's got another chance.

[Ryder Strong]

He's got an alliance with six people who are keeping his secret with him. He's in such a good position.

[Hunter Woodhull]

He's doing so well.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And, I mean, the really ridiculous thing is what Candace does by voting for him.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Dumbest move you can make.

[Ryder Strong]

What are you thinking? Like, when you see where this is going, you turn on Lisa immediately.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

Because. Or stick with your Natalie vote because you've been making arguments, but you know that Natalie's not the traitor, so you're just. She instead pulls this weird, like, protest move that only one person is going to understand. Rob. So all you're doing is pissing off the one person who knows your secret. It's like, it's. It's really literally the dumbest thing she could have possibly done. It would have been safer to just stick with the Natalie argument. Vote for Natalie or turn on Lisa.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Because that's the move.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes. Yes. So she's alienated everybody in, like, one stupid vote. It was truly astounding how bad of a move that was.

[Hunter Woodhull]

That's why I would love to have had the scene where he goes to her and is like, I'm telling you, Lisa's gone. She's gone. Whether you vote for or not, she's gonna be gone. Yeah. And so vote for her. Let's get some goodwill. Let's keep going, and then you and I move forward together. It's one less mouth defeat.

[Ryder Strong]

How would they. They were. I know. They're both housewives. Were they friends, like, in real life before this? They just have an allegiance for each other because they're housewives.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Correct.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. I thought they explained it in the beginning.

[Hunter Woodhull]

If we did a game where, you know, it was Boy Meets World against Full House, chances are we'd try to.

[Ryder Strong]

Vote a little bit of for Full.

[Hunter Woodhull]

House people before we vote for.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, no. I'd get those people out.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Danielle Fisher. We all voted for Danielle Fisher.

[Ryder Strong]

We haven't started yet. I am Ryder strong. Ryder strong. Rider strong before women.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'm sorry. If there's only one 90s star, we'd both be sitting there going like, wow, Mark Paul Gosler played a really good game.

[Ryder Strong]

Really good. And then it's worth noting. Dorinda votes for Moira for.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I feel like it's the only name of the people she actually knew around the table. Even the people she's known.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't like the way she says her teas. Her teaser.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I'M voting for mora a tink.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah. It was weird. There are some. There's some weirdness going on.

[Ryder Strong]

So it ends with Lisa getting banished. And at this point, as if I understand correctly, they can enlist a new trader.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I think. Yes. I mean, it's all. It's not up to them. So sometimes, like, what happened the last time was they. They were down a traitor or maybe two at the time because they're down two technically because of the secret trader.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But they don't know that that was the secret trader. They just know that two traitors are out. And so the last time, I believe, then Alan Cumming comes up to the turret and goes like, you must now take the coin of misery to the vial of truth and you must put.

[Ryder Strong]

It in the jukebox.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah. No, they have to pick. They have to approach a new trader.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Because if that's the case, I would say if they got Colton right now, they would have the most amazing trader team because all the heats. Because Colton just bagged Lisa and he. He's finally proven that he is, like a great Everyone.

[Hunter Woodhull]

No, everyone thinks. Yeah. No, everyone thinks Colton is still here. There's still too much heat on him. He's still going to have names at every single roundtable. I would instantly go to Kristen, our Mark Ballas and be like, I want you to come be. Because no one would suspect him or Eric.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Right.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But I don't think Eric would be a good trader where I think Kristen would be a really good trader because she's just so under the radar and doing everything. No one's really mentioned her. Colton's gonna. Colton can't win. He's gotta get. He's got a day or two left. He's gonna be voted out. Really? Yeah. 100%. I do.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm so bad at this. I was really thinking that it would be a good move because Colton's had the heat on him. He's been wrong. He's finally getting it right. I feel like now is when people that have been flying under the radar start looking more suspicious. So I feel like the game's gonna start turning on your Kristen, your Eric, you know, And Colton, having played so hard up front, has kind of gotten away with it because all the heat's off of him right now. He got somebody. Right. He's really happy about it. He made the argument that, like, started the Lisa argument, stuck with it, was right. That's when you turn around and go, now you're one of us. Maybe.

[Hunter Woodhull]

But he's starting to Pull people aside again, going like, hey, you know who it is? Who I think it is?

[Ryder Strong]

Now you keep playing too hard, and.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It'S like, dude, stop trying to tell people who they should vote for. Because everyone's just gonna be like, he's dictating the game. He's gotta go. And that's what I think's gonna happen. Whereas Kristen, under the radar. She's a chef. She looks great in a coat.

[Ryder Strong]

But so what now actually happens? Because these two traders are not working together.

[Hunter Woodhull]

They're gonna have to see. We're gonna have to see. They'll have to pick someone to murder that they'll have to work together on. But then they'll. Underneath, they're gonna be trading the traders, the old double team, the old switcheroo.

[Ryder Strong]

But wait, how do you pick a. How do you pick somebody to murder?

[Hunter Woodhull]

If you both disagree, my guess is Alan Cumming will be like, yeah, you must decide how you would do it. You know, it's. You're gonna have to pick somebody.

[Ryder Strong]

Kill this goat.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Kill the exit.

[Ryder Strong]

Take his habits, then eat whoever the.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Haggis of truth will be. If you can hold down the haggis of truth, Truth, your vomit will show the traitor.

[Ryder Strong]

Tomorrow morning, you must eat all the smoked salmon.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's like Game of Thrones where it's like you got to eat the entire horse's heart.

[Ryder Strong]

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, this is a Red Wedding homage. They were given some. Some serious red Wedding vibes.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. Well, are you.

[Hunter Woodhull]

So I gotta ask. Every week, though, you're. Are you. Are you off of her now? Who you think it's. All right, so who. You don't think, Natalie, anymore?

[Ryder Strong]

Who.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Who you think is going to win the whole thing?

[Ryder Strong]

Kristen. Oh, no, sorry. I mean, of the faithfuls, I think Kristen's the best player.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, yeah. Who do you think, at the end of the day, do you still.

[Ryder Strong]

Right now, Rob is just killing.

[Hunter Woodhull]

I agree. I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, he's turned out to be a masterful player, and. And he keeps evolving. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not like. It's not like there's only one move he's got. He's now done multiple moves in different directions, and they've worked really well.

[Hunter Woodhull]

He's clearly a chess player. He's thinking three moves ahead, and it is one of those things they always say. The analogy is you can tell the great chess players, especially when they're playing somebody who's playing checkers, and it looks like everybody else is playing checkers and he's playing chess. It just. He stands out. He's great at this.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's crazy. Absolutely crazy. And before we go any farther, of course, you know that I'm a scholar of dance. We've talked about this, of course. And I'm also a scholar of some of the most famous traders in history. And this segment has beautifully been called a will, A history of the traders and stuff and history and traders. I was trying it as a rap. It might not work.

[Ryder Strong]

Hip hop opening, you know, it's like very like Schoolhouse Rocky. I was kind of going.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Trying to like 90s vibe.

[Ryder Strong]

ABCs are cool. Yeah, right, Exactly. Yeah.

[Hunter Woodhull]

A comma breaks up the sentence for you.

[Ryder Strong]

Like that kind of overalls and a backwards hat. Why you did it? Oh, it's like you're. Oh, it's like your rap. You did this to teach us. Yes, exactly.

[Hunter Woodhull]

This is Kid Fresh. I'm Kid and play. Today's famous traitor from history is somebody named King. I'm saying this wrong. Kin Hui from 1090 to 1155. Now, why would he be saying it.

[Ryder Strong]

Wrong if it's just from the top of your head?

[Hunter Woodhull]

It's because in my head, I transcribe it all in visual so I can see him perfectly. But my pronunciation isn't always the best, but I paint with words. Rider Kin Hui was a minister with the song dynasty in 12th century China. And at the time. I don't know if you're aware of this writer, but the Jiuchen tribes occupying the northern territories of China, they captured the Song emperor. And when the Song general Yu Fei tried to reconquer the territory and reinstall the emperor to the throne, Qin Hui stopped him and had him executed. And for this, Qin Hui is still regarded as a traitor in China to the point where, in the region where Fei is buried, there are statues of Qin and his wife bound and on their knees, where people can express their disregard, pleasure at his treasonous ways. So, yeah, not sure if you're aware of that, but no. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, you are now Mount Rushmore of shame.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Yeah, exactly. There you go.

[Ryder Strong]

Your statue is you bound and tied up. Literally.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Let's just say in my head, not on the computer machine. I'm looking at the statue and it's not a good statue.

[Ryder Strong]

It's not in your memory, right?

[Hunter Woodhull]

In my memory. Let's just say it is a man and woman on their knees, bound with their head, heads down, surrounded by spikes, and people apparently walk by and spit on it and have their displeasure.

[Ryder Strong]

Nonsense.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Oh, my Gosh, yeah, not a good statue to have. I'll take, you know, plays with squirrels or a Feeny Call or something like that for my statue from a thousand years from now.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, well, that's it for this episode of pod. Meets twirled, alliances were tested, trust misplaced. And once again, we've been left with a cliffhanger. Join us next time as we continue our journey through season four of Traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Jenice Torres here, and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Small.

[Ryder Strong]

Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio.

[Hunter Woodhull]

In partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

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We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Ryder Strong]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is.

[Hunter Woodhull]

To be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Hunter Woodhull]

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