Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 410

Summary

Pod Meets World: "Pod Meets Twirl’d: The Traitors 410"

Date: February 20, 2026
Hosts: Will Friedle & Rider Strong
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts
Episode Summary by Pod Meets World AI

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Episode Overview

In this installment of "Pod Meets Twirl’d," hosts Will Friedle and Rider Strong continue their reality TV podcasting adventure by analyzing episode 10 of The Traitors Season 4. With their characteristic banter—a mix of insightful critique and comedic frustration—they break down the game's current state, focusing on the psychological pressures, tactical missteps, and shifting alliances as the cast heads toward the finale. The hosts marvel (and lament) at how the poorest players have survived while strong competitors have been strategically eliminated, questioning what real "game intelligence" looks like in this format.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rob’s Dominance & Emotional Strains

• Rob is recognized as the player in control, having manipulated the group while experiencing increasing emotional fatigue from lying constantly as a traitor.
• Psychological Toll on Traitors:
  • Will notes: “All I’m doing is lying all day long to everyone. It’s gotta be tough after a while.” (05:02)
  • Rider jokes about how he’d thrive under such pressure: “I haven’t told anyone the truth in a week, and it’s magical.” (05:27)
• Debate on whether Rob's recent emotional outburst was genuine or strategic, ultimately landing on it being a real crack in his previously steady persona (25:47–26:38).

2. The Erosion of Game Intelligence

• Most of the strong, strategic players have been eliminated, leaving behind a crew characterized by emotional voting, poor deduction, and easily manipulated loyalties.
• Will’s withering assessment:
  • “Rob got rid of all the smart people. Think about who’s left.” (10:39–11:14)
  • “Mark and Moira are just like, ‘Well, it can’t be Rob because I like him.’” (11:25)
• Tara’s lack of self-awareness, persistent self-doubt, and failure to act on her suspicions is mercilessly critiqued, with Rider comparing her to the infamous George Costanza “do-the-opposite” episode from Seinfeld. (07:02–07:13)

3. Social Dynamics Over Strategy

• The hosts highlight how late-game decisions are made based on personal comfort, habit, or friendship rather than deduction or critical thought.
• Mark and Moira are called out for their sheepish loyalty to Rob. Mark, especially, is described as needing a group to belong to and thus following Rob blindly (14:32–15:05).
• Will: “They’re all basically just going off who they like or who they get along with, and that’s not the point of the game.” (15:13)

4. Mission: Creepy Carnival

• Detailed reactions to the episode’s central challenge, a physically disorienting “creepy carnival” mission, which blends the psychological and physical strains of the competition (17:07–19:03).
• Notable moment:
  • Eric, mid-challenge: “They smell whack.” (24:25)
• The rules of the shield/musical chairs aspect were a point of confusion and annoyance for the hosts, with Rider lamenting unclear communication from production (25:06–25:14).

5. Critical Round Table & Natalie’s Downfall

• The round table segment is analyzed as the most consequential part of the episode, with discussion centering on how Natalie, a strong but direct player, is scapegoated and banished.
• Will: “Natalie played the roundtable wrong and came off looking really guilty just because she was so aggressive.” (31:10)
• Rider points out that, despite Natalie's consistent reasoning and evidence (like Candace's vote for Rob), the group chooses to ignore logical threads, showing how emotional and erratic their play has become (41:20–41:47).

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tara’s Gameplay:
  • “If she really [were a traitor], I mean, like, the best, Academy Award. She’s Meryl Streep.” – Rider (07:37)
• On Emotional Fallout:
  • “I would love if she’s in fact a secret genius, and at the end she calls out the one traitor and takes all the money and walks.” – Will (35:44)
• On Player Elimination:
  • “They don’t deserve any of this freaking money. They all deserve to die.” – Rider, exasperated (45:23)

7. Game Strategy Debate

• Extended theorizing on who Rob and Eric should target next and why (47:26–52:10).
• Will and Rider break down possible outcomes depending on who is murdered that night and which alliances are trustworthy, considering factors like plausibility, endgame partnering, and which players can be manipulated (48:05–50:55).

8. Gender Bias & Perception

• Noticing audience and cast reactions to assertiveness, with Will remarking, “That same attitude in a man, most people are like, ‘Good for you.’ In a woman: ‘Sorry, she’s got a chip on her shoulder.’” (27:45–27:54)

9. Cliffhanger & Looking Ahead

• Hosts discuss the impending “public murder” twist and speculate extensively on endgame scenarios, debating who Rob should kill and how he can best manipulate the group toward a win (46:35–52:42).
• Teaser for their upcoming podcast season recapping Survivor Season 50 (20:02–21:00).

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Important Timestamps

• 02:13: Show proper begins, premise of hosts watching The Traitors
• 05:02–05:27: Rob’s emotional fatigue, lying as a traitor
• 07:02–07:37: Tara compared to George Costanza, failing instincts
• 10:39–11:14: “Rob got rid of all the smart people”
• 15:13–15:39: Voting based on comfort and “friend groups”
• 17:07–19:03: Carnival mission, spinning challenge, shield/dagger discussion
• 25:47–26:38: Rob’s “bad acting” at the mission, hosts debate authenticity
• 27:45–27:54: Gendered reactions to Natalie’s directness
• 31:10: Natalie’s fatal roundtable move
• 35:44: Speculating on Moira as a secret genius
• 41:20–41:47: Ignoring solid evidence, Candace vote
• 45:23: Exasperation with remaining contestants
• 46:35–52:42: Endgame speculation and strategy debate
• 53:20: “Famous Traitors” historical segment: Robert Hanssen

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The Hosts’ Signature Tone

The episode is suffused with dry wit and affectionate exasperation for reality contestants who “miss the plot.” Will and Rider riff on everything from reality show tropes to psychological drama, but circle back to a core theme: The Traitors is a masterclass in groupthink, paranoia, and the unpredictable way alliances can fracture, leaving the least tactical players standing. Their blend of sharp insight and irreverence makes even their harshest critiques hilarious and relatable.

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For New Listeners & The Traitors Fans

This episode serves up an in-depth, play-by-play dissection of Episode 10’s key events, examining both the social and strategic dimensions of the show. Will and Rider keep the discussion lively with pop culture references (Seinfeld, American Horror Story), wild speculation, and frequent laughter.

If you haven’t watched The Traitors but love reality TV, group psychology, or just enjoy witty, slightly chaotic banter, this is a can't-miss episode of Pod Meets Twirl’d.

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Memorable Closing Quote:
“They took everyone away, because, I mean, the chance—they took a chance by getting rid of Kristen, who was a good player... All right, well, they don’t deserve any of this freaking money. They all deserve to die.” – Rider Strong (45:23)

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Next Up

Stay tuned as Will and Rider head into the finale—wondering, will Rob's plot unravel, will anyone finally wise up, or will the "worst players" truly inherit the [cash] earth?

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[End of summary]

Transcript

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Welcome to POD meets Twirl, the podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away. Experts. So now we turn to Traitors, another show I've never seen. While Will is convinced he could win it, we are Will Friedle and Ryder Strong. Two best friends. One a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars join us as we step into this castle full of lies, alliances and over the top wardrobe choices. This is POD meets Twirled Trading Places. Well, we're getting there. We're getting there, man.

[B]

Getting there.

[A]

So Rob is sitting pretty then. Because if they vote out Eric and he doesn't ever say anything, that's what he wants.

[B]

Yeah. That's genius.

[A]

He's gonna turn on Eric now. He should.

[B]

I think there's a good chance that some version of that will happen.

[A]

Yes. Because Eric is so bad.

[B]

Oh, it's the bad. He's like, okay.

[A]

It's like just sitting at this round table, like, watching everybody, like, dude, you're not even trying. And he knows he's so bad because, A, they killed Kristen. Yeah. Which I can't believe they got away with, by the way.

[B]

Oh, I know. That's all they're even mentioned,

[A]

is the worst at this game. I know. Danielle talked about him. Like, he's a great guy. Seems like a great guy. Horrible at traitors.

[B]

Better than Tara, maybe.

[A]

At least Tara, like, cries and recognizes that she's horrible.

[B]

Mark is like, dude, you know, it's like somebody comes up to him, is like, hey, are you a trader? He's like, I.

[A]

You know, what's a traitor? I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, he's Spanish all. But, like, people don't know all of a sudden. Don't.

[A]

I don't know English. What are you doing?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love it, though. It's fun, right?

[B]

You're in. You're in.

[A]

Oh, my God. All right, episode 10 begins with breakfast. Robin, Moira, come on in.

[B]

Eggs.

[A]

Didn't want him to stop that, you know? Give me two.

[B]

Take them out.

[A]

Think about it for a second.

[B]

Give me two eggs. Yeah. We bastard.

[A]

And then Rob has this thing where he's like, all the deceit has taken a toll on me, and I'm starting to genuinely feel bad, which is interesting. Like, yeah, yeah, man. It's got to be tough. You also lying to everybody all day, every day.

[B]

I keep thinking about the timeline of everything, too. I mean, you keep. Keep in mind this is like a week for them.

[A]

Right? Right.

[B]

This is like a week.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so.

[A]

So, like, three days ago, he was dealing with Candace. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Five days ago, Michael Rappaport was shoveling food into his face. Like, this is not that long ago for them. So, yeah, it's the whole thing. But I have somewhere Michael Rappaport is

[A]

still shuffling that food, slimering it up,

[B]

and apologizing for something. But, yeah, it's one of those things where I can see his point of view, though, where after a while, it's gotta be like, all I'm doing is lying all day long to everyone. It's gotta Be tough after a while.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you have any, you know, any form of a conscience, that's gotta be tough.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Wouldn't bother me.

[A]

Does he? Does he? Yeah.

[B]

Wouldn't bother me at all. Wouldn't bother me at all.

[A]

You'd be fine. You'd be thriving. You'd be actually getting energy out.

[B]

I was getting off on it. Yeah, exactly. I haven't told anyone the truth in a week, and it's magical.

[A]

God. Well, I thought this was interesting. He didn't really bring it up later, but at roundtable, somebody brought up how Rob seemed off. I think it was nab. And it. Yeah. And it's interesting that what was off was that he's feeling the pressure, the emotional pressure of having to lie to everybody all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, God.

[B]

I don't. I can't remember last season, but I don't think I've seen anybody who's been a traitor the whole time, start to finish.

[A]

They always. People get caught and then recruited and recruited and caught.

[B]

And then whoever's recruited maybe has to recruit somebody. He's been a traitor. He's been playing this game since the first day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's got to be rough. Yeah.

[A]

So then Eric and Mark come in, obviously not murdered. And then Tara comes in, and this is where she starts her whole, like, my radar is off. I don't know anything. I'm feeling really dumb. Which. Yeah. But then, unfortunately, she doesn't get any better. I thought this meant that she would actually, like, change her behavior or not trust her instincts or something. And she spends most of the day going after Rob and kind of.

[B]

I was like, oh, my God, is she gonna be the one who's gonna shoot a shot in the dark and take down the king?

[A]

Like, is that what happened? What happened? I don't understand. Like, her and Johnny, all day, I was like, they're going to do it. Oh, my God, they're going to do it. And she's scared. I think she's too scared.

[B]

She's. It reminds me of. There's an episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza realizes every instinct he's ever had in his life has been wrong. So he does the direct opposite of everything, and his life starts to become amazing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I feel like that's what she needs to do. It's like, I really think it's Rob, so that's why I'm voting for you. Like, it's exactly. You know. So, yeah, it's. But it's. It's getting comically bad.

[A]

With her.

[B]

With how bad it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why you never have to kill her or do anything. She can't be a traitor because as Mark says later in the episode where he's like, it's the best acting in the history of the world.

[A]

If she really.

[B]

I mean, like, the best she. Academy Award. She's Meryl Streep if she's a traitor, because she can't. Nobody could be fumbling around this much. It's pretty bad.

[A]

No, but I mean, actually, if I were one of the faithful in this scenario, I would really be turning on Johnny in this situation because I'd be watching her go through all of this and be like, oh, she's actually a faithful. And Johnny's been lying to her this whole time. Because that. You know what I mean? Like, that seems like the dynamic that I would predict just from if I was one of the faithful. But no one's even really brought that up. Like, they were suspicious of Johnny like, an episode or two ago, and then everyone just dropped it.

[B]

Yeah, I just.

[A]

I just don't know how they're playing.

[B]

They get off people very quickly where it's like, it's gotta be this person. Gotta be this person. Then they don't vote for that person. Then they never bring them up again.

[A]

Right. I mean, that's. Mark is just falling. I mean, he's gonna look back on his performance this whole season and be like, oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, he.

[A]

I mean, him and Moira both. Because they're both just like, well, if anybody, it's not Rob. And you're like, really? Why, why, why. Why would you assume that? Like, even I say, with Tara and Johnny, I could see, like, the whole. Like, we're best friends. We wouldn't lie to each other.

[B]

But.

[A]

But even that's bullshit. That's not the way the game is played.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You're lying to. That's the worst way to play. Because the person's gonna have you in their pocket if they are a traitor.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because they'll just rely on the fact that you're their best friend.

[B]

It's also as an audience member, though. It's a wonderful psychological kind of Rorschach test almost, because as they're talking about, like, everybody's going, well, maybe we need to start concentrating on people that. Nobody that haven't had suspicion on them at all. Like. Like a Rob, like an Eric, something like that. And who's saying this? Maura, who. Nobody has ever once mentioned the possibility that she. And she's just skated through the whole time.

[A]

I know.

[B]

How do you know? How does no one throw her out, do you think?

[A]

They just don't give her credit, like, for being manipulative?

[B]

I mean, maybe where it's. She's too much of a simpleton, quote unquote, kind of.

[A]

Because, I mean, it's what's working for Rob, right? Like, everyone thinks that he's kind of not that smart or wouldn't be manipulated. And, like, they kept turning on Natalie and being like, you're really smart. It was like, why is that a problem? She's.

[B]

That also led to my favorite moment of the entire episode.

[A]

To terror. Be like. And you are. You're okay, you're here. Too smart, too. You're smart. But that's what I mean.

[C]

They're like.

[A]

They're so. You're just thinking about this wrong. Like, they're not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Anyway, Tara comes in by herself, says her radar's off. Then Johnny comes on solo, and then Natalie. Meaning they murdered Kristen. Which is my immediate thought was, what idiots? Because she literally said Eric was acting weird. You know that it's Eric. And no one follows up with that.

[B]

No.

[A]

This entire episode.

[B]

Because, well, what are you doing? Think about it as a tra. As a traitor. It's a horrible thing to say, and I'm not denigrating anybody. Rob got rid of all the smart

[A]

people, but it's true.

[B]

Think about who's left.

[A]

Oh, God, that's so embarrassing and true.

[B]

Think about it.

[A]

It's like the worst players. Right?

[B]

Natalie was the last, you know, somebody where it was like, ooh, she's playing the game. Strategic thinking, that kind of thing. That's it. Think about who's left. You've got Tara, Johnny, Eric. Who's another traitor. Mora and Rob and Mark.

[A]

So true.

[B]

Right. So they can say what they want. We got rid of the gamers first, and we got rid of the housewives. They got rid of the smart people.

[A]

Right. There's literally nobody. Well, or even if you don't say smart, just good players. They literally get rid of all of the good players.

[B]

Yeah, smart players. Not necessarily. I'm sure they're.

[A]

They're smart people who are strategizing in any regard, because as it is, they're really just doing the dumbest things. Like, Mark and Moira are just like, well, I can't be Rob because I like him.

[B]

Tara is literally arguing with herself. I know where she'll be like, it's definitely this person. And then she'll vote against the thing she said all day long.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So it's. Again, that's what I mean. Smart. Smart might be the wrong word. You're right. Because it's not intelligent. Just gameplay intelligence. Good at this game.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Think about who's left.

[A]

Well, I was surprised. I was shocked that they murdered Kristen. I really thought that that was a bad move because she had really just pointed her fingers directly at Eric.

[B]

Yep. And no one listened to.

[A]

But I also think that they had to, because Rob and Eric, you know, the conversation in the turret, which they probably cut out from the previous episode, was Eric being like, I'm not gonna be able to act my way out of this. Like, I can't if Kristen is still there. I'm just gonna cave tomorrow if she talks to me. Yeah, exactly. Cause, I mean, that's what it had to come down to. Right? Cause they were like, look, you. Cause he said at the end of the last episode, Rob said to him, you just have to be cool. And, you know, they must have decided he couldn't just like, sorry, I can't. I really can't.

[B]

He's.

[A]

He'.

[B]

Walking by the cops with. Walking by the cops with your friend at 2:00 in the morning, and your friend is drunk as hell, and you're like, dude, just be cool. Just be cool. Just don't fall on your face, and we'll get home. Okay. That. It's. That. Yeah, he's that guy. So, yeah, it's. But watching it is just one kind of bonehead mistake after another. And they don't. They don't. This episode, at least, Rob and Eric didn't really have to do much. It was kind of everybody else taking the heavy lifting.

[A]

Well, Rob worked a little bit in the. In the. I feel like he had to defend himself.

[B]

Rose it in at the right time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is great. But for the most part, he kind of got to sit back and let Natalie and Tara and everybody else just kind of do their thing. And I feel bad for Mark in a way, because Mark is now one of what, the five people left. Six people left. And this guy still doesn't get a lot of camera time. No, it's like they're still cutting everybody else but Mark.

[A]

Yeah, I think he's one of those, like, probably really nice in real life, obviously a talented dancer, but doesn't bring much personality and much edge or much, you know, which is why he's lasted this long, because he's just not really playing. I don't know, man.

[B]

Mora's the same way, though.

[C]

I know.

[A]

She's kind of there. I know. But I love her accent. It's just so fun to hear it.

[B]

I love her.

[A]

So after breakfast, Tara says this thing. She slept on it. Doesn't think it's Natalie. Okay. You slept on it, and now you've decided it's not Natalie, which you're gonna go back on by the end of the day. That's what I love. She, like, does this whole speech. Like, I. It's so. She's just. I mean, when she's crying at the end, it's. It's on you, lady. Like. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Mark and Rob talk and, you know, Marcus just in Rob's pocket.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's like this is. This is the moment where you could talk about Eric. Really talk about Eric. And.

[B]

But he said it several times, which is. Which is so interesting. Again, the psychological kind of disadvantage that he's at because he's. He has like. He was like, I've. First of all, keep in mind what he does for a living requires a partner for dancing. His partner was Kristen. Essentially, in this right now, she's gone. And he said several times, like, I'm. I'm alone on an island. I've got nobody. So he just wanted to latch onto a group.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I think the second he latched on, then he's like, okay, this is my new group. I have friends. I'm fine, so I can't vote for them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's like he just latched on

[A]

to the wrong group. Really bad looking for.

[B]

Yeah. Somebody to have lunch with in the cafeteria. Total that point. And it's. It gets a little sad.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. They're all voting like, they're all basically just going off of who they like or who they get along with. And it's like, that's not the point of the game. The point of the game is who has been eliminated. Why have they been eliminated? Who's. Who's led us in the direction to keep making mistakes because they've made more mistakes than not.

[B]

And they are.

[A]

They're not paying attention to, you know, or when they do, when they bring up, like, Candace voted for Rob. That's weird.

[B]

And they're. That's the thing is they're throwing out the good clues and then kind of disregarding them. So, yeah, it's. I was like, I thought there was going to be some kind of wonderful poetry to the fact that Tara, who was this terrible player who's never Once gotten it right, was going to get Rob out.

[A]

I thought so, you know, and I

[B]

was going to be like, this is kind of brilliant if this is the way you can't write it.

[A]

It seemed like the whole day was going that way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because then in the car ride on the way to the mission, Tara, Natalie, and Moira are discussing Robb. Moira's not budging on the Rob thing, but, you know, she actually says she would storm out of the castle if it was him because she's so convinced it's like.

[B]

What?

[A]

Why? What do you mean, storm out of the castle? Like, yeah.

[B]

A guy she's known a week.

[A]

Yeah. She's just in love with him.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. I think there's a bit of a crush.

[A]

There's a chemistry.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I totally think she's just being an idiot because she's just like, well, it can't be Rob.

[B]

We're going to hear a little later that they're dating.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. So.

[A]

All right. In the car, Natalie pushes for Rob with Tara and Johnny, which is like, hey, a good move and kind of Natalie's only move. And Tara and I. I was like, yeah, this is, you know, smart. The mission again, these set pieces. I love, like, I just love a good creepy carnival.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And it was perfect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Great production design. Creepy carnival.

[B]

American Horror Stories esque.

[A]

Yep. Did the word Kara's hell work for you?

[B]

I mean, it was of.

[A]

I just kept wanting to say carousel. When I saw it, I was like, oh, Charis hell. But then it was like my brain, when I was reading, it was like, no, no, that's caroushell.

[B]

Your brain's got the shell, I got the carousel.

[A]

You're the shell with the brain on it. Oh, my God. Well, I love that they have their dummies and Natalie. Did you notice Natalie holding the dummy Eric's hand?

[B]

Yes. We're gonna get through this.

[A]

Oh, we're gonna get this. I. I mean, I would probably throw up. I'm really bad at, like, spinning things like this. I remember throwing up when I was a kid on the little tire swings, you know, when people would wind you up in the tire swings. So I would not be good at this.

[B]

Yeah, no, I. I don't disagree. I. For some reason, when I'm focused on other things, I can get back. So if I'm like. I knew it was part of a game where I've got to get out. I've got to spin five times, get out and Then run. Psychologically, I could probably get through it as opposed to just, you're going on a ride. We're going to spin you around. Right. It's rough.

[A]

Just.

[B]

Just. That's all you're doing. We're just spinning.

[A]

You see? I mean, I get motion sickness, so I wonder if that would count. Like, if I could just say, like, I'm gonna throw up if you, you know, make me, like, sit in a car and read.

[B]

Well, I can tell you that if they keep in line with what they did last year. The last challenge is huge.

[A]

Really? It's, like, physically.

[B]

Well, the one they did last year was you literally, you're all harnessed in, and then a helicopter comes and straps you to the bottom of a helicopter. So you're, like, hanging on a wire, flies you all the way up and over the trees that are hundreds of feet tall, and you have to drop money into these things. So it was, like.

[A]

It was pretty massive at this point, too. Also, having a shield is not as important as, like, having a dagger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it seems more important if you are in any position, if you're a traitor or a faithful, you want to be able to sway the votes, because if you're trying to get a traitor and you believe in yourself or your team or whoever, you know, that extra vote, that's more important than if somebody gets murdered or not at this rate. I think, because, like, yeah, I think

[B]

it's also, though, if you're a traitor, they wanted it just so they had carte blanche with whoever. It's like, we can't kill anybody we want to. We don't have to. You know, if Natalie got the shield and Natalie was the one coming after them, then it was like, okay, we can. We can. This way we don't have to worry about who we're going to kill. We can kill whoever we want.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So I think that makes a difference. But, yeah, the. The. The dagger, I think, was important.

[A]

I just feel like the game at this point is more. The round table is a bigger deal than the murders. You know, I think that's.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's true, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is there a. Oh, yeah, there is. I was going to say, is there another murder? But, yeah, there is. We just don't know who it is. Right. I think I know who it's gonna be, though. I think I do.

[A]

You really?

[B]

I do. Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Hey, guys. Guess what? POD meets twirld is approaching our next season of reality tv. So we've conquered ballroom dancing, and we've become perfect experts on weird trader things that happen in Scottish castles. So what's next? Well, how about a little desert island dream? Oh, God, I hope I don't have to take my shirt off. But that's right. We're taking on the 50th season of Survivor. So get ready for pod meets Twirl and seeking immunity, a podcast about Survivor from a guy who's watched all 49 seasons and another one who's only seen one. I'm gonna let you guess who's who, and you might be surprised by the answer. So make sure to watch The Survivor season 50 premiere on Wednesday, February 25th on CBS or Paramount. And then come on back to Ryder and I to hear us become undeniable castaway experts. Wait, do I have to befriend a volleyball? Anyway, someone has to do it. We'll see you there. Foreign.

[C]

This is Sarah Spain from Good Game with Sarah Spain, brought to you in part by Vital Farms. Let's talk eggs. Vital Farms pasture raised eggs, to be exact. My favorites. The only kind I've got in my fridge. No joke. And here's why. These aren't your average eggs. The hens live on open pastures with fresh air and sunshine. All year long, they forage on local grasses and stretch their wings. They're living their best life. That care really shows in the taste. I love mine scrambled with a little butter or whipped up into a fancy frittata. And here's something most people don't know. You could trace your eggs back to the farm they came from. Seriously. Side of the carton, you'll find the farm name. Type it [e-mail] farm and you'll get a 360 degree peek at the pasture. Plus, Vital Farms is a certified B corporation, which means they're committed to improving the lives of people, animals and the planet through food. Eggs you could feel good about. So next time you're in the store, look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more. Vital Farms Good eggs, no shortcuts.

[B]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your wifi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on Their devices at the exact same time. Gaming. Working. Swiping.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

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[C]

When your schedule sounds like this.

[A]

Are you kidding me?

[C]

An oil change is the last thing you have time for. So drive into take five and let our techs change your oil, check your tires, top off your fluids, and have you back on the road pit stop fast. All while you stay in your car. No putting your entire schedule on hold. No upsells, no problem. So you can get back to your to do list. Or not. Find your nearest [e-mail]. Take five. The stay in your car. 10 minute oil change.

[A]

So now they gotta run. They spin for a bunch, then they have to run to teddy bears and rip them open trying to find money. Yeah, I love that one point when. Who was it? Eric is like, they smell horrible.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, they smell whack.

[A]

Whack.

[B]

Totally whack.

[A]

I love that little detail. Like, what do they do? Like, leave these out overnight, probably mild.

[B]

Mildewy and gross and. Yeah.

[A]

All right, well, so Rob runs back last, and at this point, I. I thought it was obvious that they were going to be doing musical chairs.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that either. I had no idea.

[A]

Well, because when they said in the beginning, he's laying out the rules, and I know your brain probably shuts off during the entirely, but he said if you're the last one on the spinning, if you're there for the last spinning ride, you get a shield. And I was like, oh, so it's going to be the last person standing. That's the only way it would. You get to be the last.

[B]

I didn't put that together. And I was a little. I was a little pissed about that because I was like, I wish they had told. If they told me, I had to run there as fast as possible, get it and come back.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's different.

[A]

That's the only way. It's a competition, though. Like, there was no other. Right. So they just didn't think it through. That's why I was like, Rob did. Why are you okay with being the last person then? He wasn't. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he turned on Mark, which is a little weird.

[B]

Yeah. And, like, kind of harshly.

[A]

Yeah. So this is. You know, he's talked about being more emotionally in control before and, like, how. And he's demonstrated that very well.

[B]

So you think it was real, or do you think he was acting like he really wanted the shield?

[A]

No, I do. I think it felt more like. Because then he was like, I'm not mad at you. I'm not mad at you. And he realized. But he was still very emotional. So I think it was just an emotional, like, breakdown of the, you know, the pressure that he talked about in the beginning of the episode. That feeling of, like, having to lie so much. I think it probably, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Drove him crazy, maybe.

[B]

How? Again, it was probably three days ago, but I feel like Lisa Rinna hasn't been there for nine months, and so. Cause I was thinking about one of the things that they said in the car back. Natalie was like, rob's acting seemed really bad today. And that made me think of Lisa, where we were both like, God, that wasn't. That wasn't a great beat that you just had there. That wasn't a good moment. But he's not an actor. Right. And frankly, I didn't think it was that bad.

[A]

No, I actually believed it. I thought I was like, dude, hold your emotions in check. Like, it seemed real.

[B]

I felt the same way. I thought he was getting. I think. I think what he said in the beginning of the entire episode is absolutely true, where I think the whole thing is just getting to him. I think it's gotta be a whole different kind of pressure when you're a traitor. I think you're probably shooting more stuff. You're, you know, gotta be thinking 10 moves ahead. I think it's probably a lot more mentally Exhausting than being a faithful is.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And he's been there the whole time, and he's probably starting to lose it a little bit.

[A]

Also, the one who was calling him out for being a bad actor, Natalie, was the worst liar I've ever seen. Remember her trying to lie to keep the dagger?

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[A]

She's like, licking her lips and not able to make eye contact. Dude, what's wrong with you? It's true. So, yeah, she doesn't know from lying.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Yeah. She's a very straightforward person, which I think is part of the reason why I like her and why I was thinking she would be better at this than she is. But. But exactly. Like she says when she leaves, I think it comes across as somewhat aggressive and people don't, you know. Yeah, don't.

[B]

Again, not to be this guy, but that same attitude in a man. Most people are like, man, that's just somebody going for what they want.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

You know, that's like, good for you. Good for you. That's. That's. That's drive right there. In a woman.

[A]

They're like, sorry, she's got a chip on it. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

What a.

[B]

Like, it's like, okay, yeah, she's bossy. Yeah, right? Exactly.

[A]

How about just a boss?

[B]

You know, she's also. Especially in that last dress when she walked in, she's.

[A]

She's ripped.

[B]

Ripped.

[A]

I mean, just. Yo, she could crush me.

[B]

Oh, my God. Like a.

[A]

Like a tin can.

[B]

Yes. I mean, she is.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And that's really good shape.

[A]

And that's like a new development. Like, because when I. When she. I don't remember her being that. I mean, she was always athletic, right? Like, like, compared to, like, when she was on Amazing Race or whatever. Survivor, like, a couple years ago. Like, I don't remember arms. She's working. She even says. She says something about, like, I work really hard at being strong. And I was like, in a lot of senses of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, not just. Not just You're. You're talking about emotionally, but you're also like, I just can't take my eyes off your arms.

[B]

Yeah, I was just like, God, jeez, look at that. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I mean. I mean, she's basically like a bodybuilder. You know, she's got that kind of, like. She's clear.

[B]

Absolutely has that kind of bodybuilding physique. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So then Rob is removed. He's pissed at Mark, which is a weird reaction. The next round, Natalie helps Moira Even though she's got money. And I thought this was a really good move. This was like the kind of thing that I wanted Natalie to be doing from the beginning of this game. She's like, I gotta get in Moira's good graces to convince her that Rob is the guy. Because I know that she's been with Rob. That's like, really smart. She should have been doing that days ago because she hasn't cultivated, you know, because obviously Moira falls for whoever treats her nice or takes care of her, which is exactly why she's fallen for Rob. She's not seeing it for what it is. So, yes, Natalie should have been doing this, but at least she makes the effort. Johnny doesn't make it that second round. He's out. Then Moira joking. You're choking.

[B]

I'm so good at this game. I'm so good at this game. She was so happy to be good at one.

[A]

And then Mark is out. So the last ring. There's two seats removed. Or it's not even the last one yet, I don't think. Yeah. So Natalie and Tara out, and then Moira and Eric come down to the final. And she says she's gonna get that shield if it's the last thing she does.

[B]

Last thing I do.

[A]

Last thing I do. But Eric wins, man. Traitor's just killing it, killing it, killing it. In the car ride back, Natalie breaks down the strategy in terms of numbers. And this was very smart.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

She's like, rob has the dagger. Rob and lawyer are voting together. 3 They're gonna vote for. At this point, she's saying me. Right? She's. She knows. And we need to get Rob and we all need to stick together. Now. This is a perfect argument. It seems like Tara and Johnny are with her.

[B]

Oh, with her. They instigated the whole thing at the beginning.

[A]

At this point, I'm like, okay, it's a real round table. Like, this is gonna be really tough.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So what is it like? I mean, it doesn't. Like, is Tara just such a wimp when it comes to confrontation?

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Part that.

[A]

But that doesn't make sense for Johnny. Like, Johnny doesn't seem like a pushover. Like, Johnny seems like the type of guy who just tell you to your face, like, right, I disagree with you. I think you're a traitor. But he caves too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so weird to me that they all pounce on Natalie.

[B]

I guess the only reason that I think it would work is because as they said, or as. As Rob Said later, Natalie played the roundtable wrong and came off looking really

[A]

guilty just because she was so aggressive.

[B]

I don't know. Or they cut something. Because, again, I didn't think she played it terribly. But she got. She did get instantly pissed when Tara was like. She was like, all I need you to do is to back me up for your theory.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I'll float your theory that we've talked about all day and then just stick with your theory.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she doesn't even stick with her own theory. It's like, where did that come from?

[A]

So I guess maybe if Natalie hadn't been as. As confrontational and maybe a little more like, hey, Tara, remember the conversation we had?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I need you to help me here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this is not about. Like, we had a whole. You know, like, she could have been maybe a little less like, you are turning on me. And I don't like it because that really didn't work.

[B]

Shots are down and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is so strange because professional figure skaters, I know a little bit of this world. These are super competitive, like, amazingly driven people that are doing two and three a days from their time. They're four, and it's like they have one drive and one thing. So the idea that she's like, kind of this wilting flower is a little strange to me.

[A]

It's just socially, right?

[B]

Like. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so.

[A]

There is a psychological torture element to this entire game.

[B]

Oh, God, there is.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, that's like watching. I mean, that's. Because that's what's happening to Rob this episode. I mean, they have been there for, what, eight, nine days at this point. Like, that's gotta suck, man. When you start to feel like you can't trust anybody in a paranoia prison

[B]

for nine days, I mean, you're total.

[A]

Everything's a paranoid house of mirrors. That's all it is. Yeah. Oh, my God. I would. I mean. Yeah. I mean, she says it at the end of this episode where she's just like, just murder me. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I can take this anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that would be me on day two. Seriously. I mean, even if I wasn't a traitor, if I made it this far, I would be like, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you gotta kind of somewhat take it as a compliment if people vote you out, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Natalie should take it as a compliment.

[B]

That I do actually have to say, though, if, you know, we were talking about Eric and the Severe anxiety and again, dealing with anxiety. However, the pressure. The psychological pressure of dealing with anxiety and being in that environment and him going from faithful first to now being a traitor and dealing with that as a mental illness. That's pretty impressive.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Because. And I get why he just shut down. I get why he's quiet around the table because it's like, well, just let

[A]

Rob do his thing. Because Rob is going so. Doing so well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, like, in some ways, Eric's worst nightmare would be that Rob gets killed because then he would be alone as the trainer and he would be horrible.

[B]

Yes, that's what I mean. So it's.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Yeah, it's. This is. This is such.

[A]

So interesting. All right, well, then Tara and Natalie talk to Mark back at the house. They talk about Rob's bad acting, which I didn't really think was bad acting. It doesn't seem like you did either. But they're right. They're on the money to start talking about Rob. Then Johnny talks to Eric, so nervous. It's hysterical. And then this moment with Rob and Morgan Moira happens, which I could not believe. She did not notice it. He's literally saying to her, we gotta get Natalie out. And then Johnny and Tara, which is pure trader talk, like it's a pure. He's treating her as if she's Eric, like that she's part of the team of how they have to vote people out. And he's not saying because they're a traitor. He's just literally saying, we got to get him out or her out. And then hear him in our. And it was like. And she just kind of like, okay, Rob. Yeah.

[B]

And the best part is he walks away behind her holding a knife he just ate with. And he's like, yes, chicken was good. It was just like the greatest psycho moment.

[A]

He's like, you're with me. You're gonna do this. And we're gonna get rid of him and her and her. And then I'll see you ever later. Okay. Keep it between us. Chicken.

[B]

Chicken was good. Yeah. It was just like, wow, this guy's insane.

[A]

He's gonna be swimming with the fishes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's nothing suspicious. I can't. Yeah, she's just like. She's just taking her.

[B]

And they know. They talk about it in the turret lady like, yeah, we can't get rid of her. She's perfect.

[A]

She's too. Just following everything. Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, man, she's going to feel so dumb when she.

[B]

I would love if she's. In fact A secret genius. And at the end, she calls out the one trader and takes all the money and walks like I will be. Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my God. It would be amazing.

[B]

She's been just doing this the entire time. She's the best player in the history of the show.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Oh, God. That's the case. Foreign.

[C]

This is Sarah Spain from Good Game with Sarah Spain, brought to you in part by Vital Farms. Let's talk eggs. Vital Farms pasture raised eggs, to be exact. My favorites. The only kind I've got in my fridge. No joke. And here's why. These aren't your average eggs. The hens live on open pastures with fresh air and sunshine all year long. They forage on local grasses and stretch their wings. They're living their best life. That care really shows in the taste. I love mine scrambled with a little butter or whipped up into a fancy frittata. And here's something most people don't know. You could trace your eggs back to the farm they came from. Seriously. Side of the carton, you'll find the farm name. Type it [e-mail] farm and you'll get a 360 degree peek at the pasture. Plus, Vital Farms is a certified B corporation, which means they're committed to improving the lives of people, animals and the planet through food. Eggs you could feel good about. So next time you're in the store, look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more. Vital Farms Good eggs. No shortcuts.

[B]

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[B]

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[C]

When your schedule sounds like this.

[B]

Are you kidding me?

[C]

An oil change is the last thing you have time for. So drive into Take five and let our techs change your oil. Check your tires, top off your fluids, and have you back on the road. Pit stop fast. All while you stay in your car. No putting your entire schedule on hold. No upsells, no problem. So you can get back to your to do list or not. Find your nearest [e-mail]. Take 5. The Stay in youn Car 10 Minute Oil Change.

[A]

This moment, though, it blew my mind. I was like, Rob. I thought he would. Had overplayed it. I thought she was literally going to be like, that was weird.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

But instead, she's just like, shows up at the round table. Well, can't be Rob. Yeah. Couldn't be me.

[B]

Rob. That's so true. It's like he lit. You're right. There was no. There was no ambiguity in the conversation he was having. He wasn't trying to, like, layer it into a conversation. Here's what we're going to do.

[A]

Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna vote this person, and then we're gonna kill this person. Get him out of here.

[B]

There we go.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

So the round table. Tara starts off talking about how she can't trust herself, which I thought was gonna lead to. And he. But I'm going to say it's Rob.

[B]

It didn't.

[A]

You know, and it didn't.

[B]

It literally the entire. Her entire conversation started with, I'm bad at this game. I'm going to start, though, by saying, I don't want to put anybody up. And then she sat back and it was like, then why did you talk? Let somebody else star. Let somebody else start.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It was so she. She didn't back up her own theory.

[A]

She started the day saying, I've slept on it. It's not Natalie. Then spent the whole day colluding with Natalie, coming to the. Listening to somebody like her make the conclusion that it's Rob and give real numbers reasons why they should stick together, and then just lets all of that go.

[B]

It made no sense to vote on the person that literally the first conversation of the day was her going, I got to tell her that it wasn't her. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense the way she's playing.

[A]

So then Rob is able to bring up Natalie. Natalie brings this whole, like, you shifted Rob the last couple days, which is interesting. And then she brings up the Candace vote for Rob, which is, you know, not amazing evidence, but it's something, you know. And she also knows that they're going to vote for her, so she's pretty desperate in this scenario. And she, you know, she is a faithful. So she's coming from the right place.

[B]

See, I think. I think it's much better evidence than you would think, because that Candace voted for Rob.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Because if they think it's. Especially if you're a housewife and you want to get like, oh, if I'm going down, I'm taking you with me. And she voted.

[A]

She's.

[B]

It turns out that she's a traitor. And she threw out his name twice. To me, that is the breadcrumb that you need. And everybody talked about it. They're like, yeah, that's legit. That's a legit thing. And then everyone went, man, we're not gonna.

[A]

Let's forget it. It's weird. Yeah.

[B]

Can't be Rob.

[A]

So then Tara, Natalie start to go at it, which I was really bummed out for both of them, and I was like, this is gonna suck for them to watch back and realize that they were being used perfectly. And Tara especially, like, I just couldn't, you know, Then we see the dagger. Like, are we gonna use the dagger? Rob raises his hand. Obviously he's gonna use the dagger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Natalie votes Tara, which was kind of a bummer. I was like, why are you not voting, Rob? Like, you. You made all these arguments, and now you're just voting emotionally? Because now it's personal. Yeah, it's personal.

[B]

Now it's just personal.

[A]

Not. Not smart.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Then Rob and Mark vote for Natalie, because Mark is just following Rob, looking for friends. Right. Tara votes Natalie, I guess, because she's changed her mind completely since what she Started with this morning. Moira votes Natalie and that's when she's officially banished. But then Eric also votes Natalie. Not. No surprise there. And then Natalie has this moment with Johnny, which I thought was intense, which on his, like, you know, she's like, don't say I'm sorry. Don't say you're sorry. Don't say you're sorry. Just vote for me. You know, I don't want to hear it.

[B]

I don't want to hear it. Like, wow. Yeah. Well, again, you. You would have to. I have to imagine as a faithful. You would have to walk away from the conversation you had had all day in the car. Everything walk away going, okay, so one of them has to be a traitor, because all day long they were on my side. They threw this out there. It was their theory. They knew what they were doing. And then last second, they turned on me, left me out to dry. Has to be either Tara or Johnny. I mean, how. How could you walk away with any other conclusion? I mean, you literally talk to them all day. It's Rob, it's Rob, it's Rob. And they're the ones who turn on you. The second you sit down, they turn on you.

[A]

That's a good point, actually. So Natalie voting for Tara makes sense in that way. So she should have made a last minute plea. She should have said, you know, I came in here ready to vote for Rob, but based on Tara turning on me. We should all be voting for Tara, because that's crazy that she flipped on a dime this much. Yeah, that's. That would have been a better argument.

[B]

Yeah. This is your whole. Your whole day. This has been your theory. You started the day by coming to me and saying, I slept on it. I know it's not you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then you spent the entire day convincing me it was Rob and strategizing with how we're going to do it. I then start the strategy at the table and say, it's Rob, and the first thing you do is stab me in the back. You're the traitor. You have to be.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah, you'd be wrong, but at least you'd have a legitimate reason to say it.

[A]

That's the thing. They're already so screwed. All right, so then Tara's bawling, saying she's a fool, which, yeah, it's not a good place. Okay, just murder me anyway.

[B]

Who do you think so far has been the worst player?

[A]

I mean, Mark and Tara, I think like a moir. I mean, everybody. All the people left, like, literally everybody left, is is a bad player like you are you. You said it earlier. It's so. You're so right. Like, they have played. The traitors have done such a good job of eliminating the good players. Yes.

[B]

Yes, they have.

[A]

They took everyone away because, I mean, the chance. They took a chance by getting rid of Kristen, who was a good player. The risk there was that she had done the good player thing of telling everybody, if I die, it's Eric. And Mark did not pick up that thread because he's not a good player. It's like they're just bad players. It's. It's so sad. All right, well, they don't deserve any of this freaking money. They all deserve to die.

[B]

You don't deserve the $78,242 that you're gonna win.

[A]

That you got from a teddy bear. What do you got from a wax smelling teddy bear? I love this moment where Rob and Mark lay on the pool table and they talk about, you know, it's just like this where I was like, mark, you fool.

[B]

But this is where Rob's a genius. Yeah. Is because the one thing that I've noticed he does amazingly well is he keeps his mouth shut. He lets somebody else come to him and say something, and then a lot of the time he agrees with them.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Disagrees where he's even. Where she. He even. Mark was like, it can't be Tara. And he's like, no, I don't think it's Tara either. I mean, like.

[A]

And then Mark brings up Eric and, you know, and Rob sort of lets that sit a little bit because he's smart.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, it's so delicious. It has to be fattening because I know it's coming. And it's just. It's great. It's great.

[A]

In the turret, Rob calls out Eric for not talking.

[B]

He's like, dude, that's not good. Yeah.

[A]

You didn't talk at all. Like, you gotta do a little. Oh, I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I want more scenes of them just being the.

[B]

The older brother, trying to tell the little brother, like, what the hell to do.

[A]

Like, so then Alan comes in and tells him that I have to do a murder that night in front of everybody. We get this, you know, level of anxiety from them about that because they're gonna have to act, which I love. The producers are just putting the screws to Eric, basically. They're just like, can you, can you do this? Like, let's. Let's put him in the most uncomfortable situation, like, looking right.

[B]

Allen's like, looking right at him going, like. Because it would be a shame to blow it now, Eric.

[A]

Don't reveal your feelings, Eric.

[B]

I'm totally natural.

[A]

Oh, my God. So then everybody gets called outside in the middle of the night or close when it's dark out, I guess, because they're sleeping in hotels, apparently, and they get to witness a coffin and somebody's gonna get murdered. Now you have your theory. You think it's.

[B]

I think it's Mora. Really? Yeah. I think the way Rob said it to where he was like, I don't want to do this. I think he legitimately likes her. When he said rip at the end, I think he definitely doesn't want to get rid of her, but I think she kind of makes the most sense right now. Why, though?

[A]

Because she's completely in the bag for him. So she would never at the end moments turn on him. Because don't they have to at the end, like, decide, like, you want people that are 100% believing you're faithful. Right. Like that's what you want to go to the end with, Even when you're a trader. Especially when you're a trader. So for him, he should be looking at Mark and Moira as his ride or die at this point, they're never.

[B]

I think people think Johnny and Tara could be traitors.

[A]

Trader. Exactly. So. Oh, so if you kill one of

[B]

them, then maybe they're not. You know what I mean? Like, keep them there as.

[A]

But. Oh, right. Because they can still banish one more person.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Right. So if you kill Moira or Mark, it makes Tara. Yeah. And then you saw the. Yeah.

[B]

This is why you don't know who to pick. Or the other thing you do is. See, my guess is if you killed Tara, say yes.

[A]

Yes. Then you could still make it look

[B]

like Johnny, but Johnny would never. Johnny has said, she's my ride or die. Never do that. So do you. If you believe Johnny, then he's automatically take. It's so difficult to pick who to do. I also wondered, and this is where we got to talk to somebody who knows all the rules, because I wondered if, could you make a deal with your fellow trader? Could Eric look to Rob and say, look, I'm a liability if you promise to split the money with me, let's kill me. Right. And so if I die, you're the last trader. It takes the onus off of everybody.

[A]

You can never split the money.

[B]

No.

[A]

You can't be in the rules because then you'd be outside of the game. If you. If you get killed or banished. You're. You lose. You're out of right to have it. Yeah, yeah. You can't make sense. Can't possibly do.

[B]

I'd be looking for all the loopholes.

[A]

I know. But the weirder one is the. The. What happened earlier with Colton and Lisa. Right. Because that was a weirder situation. Like, how would that have played out if she had agreed to it? Because then he would have been on the faithful side, helping the traitors secretly. That seems like it would be allowed by the rules.

[B]

But I think the rule says the oath you take as the traitor is you're not allowed to tell anybody except your friend. Is that you're a traitor.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she would have to tell Colton. But again, is that like an oath or are those rules?

[A]

Okay. So if I were Rob right now, I would never let them murder. I would never let Eric murder. My rider dies. Moira, or. So if I'm Rob, who I think is thinking the most ahead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's. He knows that if he murders Johnny or Tara, that he can. That they can. He can turn the other two against Eric if he has to. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's still the potential of people voting for Eric and Rob getting away with it. Like they're not going to turn on him.

[B]

Which one? So which one of them has said Eric's name? Tara or Johnny? Because what could be interesting is then you.

[A]

Nobody. Mark has said it. That's the thing. You keep Mark around and you keep Moira because she'll vote for you, with you. So what you do is you kill terror. I would say you kill Tara and you try and pin it on Johnny. And if that doesn't work, you point the finger at Eric.

[B]

Yeah. And then Eric gets kicked out and he doesn't get to say I'm a traitor because you don't get to say what you are.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And then the last winner case. Oh, that's a good call. Because I think it's a very good call.

[A]

And if I were Eric, I would be. I would be gunning for Mark or Moira because, you know, I would be gunning mostly for Mark, assuming that Robb told him that Mark said his name. And you know that Mark is the one who Kristen said to the night before. So get rid of him. Even though he didn't bring it up all day.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

And also just cut Robb's support out. No, they're gonna kill Tara or Johnny.

[B]

Well, it's already been proven that Tara can obviously be made to vote however you Kind of want her. You want her to. So I'd kill Johnny, really Tara around,

[A]

but nobody was going to believe that Tara did it. So you're really opening yourself up to being.

[B]

Well, then you point the finger at Eric.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then you're the last traitor standing.

[A]

But see, I think there's a more. There's a more plausible version. Like I think most Mark and Moira would more easily believe that Johnny killed Tara than the other way around. So, yeah, I say you kill Tara and then you're able to say Johnny did it. He was lying to her the whole time. Johnny has to defend himself. And then you say if they're not buying that, then you pivot to Eric. That's what I. That's what I would do. Let's see. Interesting. I finally have a strategy that's a good. I feel like it only took all 10 episodes before I had an opinion about any of this.

[B]

If I was. If I was Rob, though, I would reverse that because I'd want them to. I would kill one Johnny. I would get in Terror's ear saying it was Eric. I would have everybody pointing at Eric. I then banish Eric and then I'm the last traitor standing.

[A]

It's a great call.

[B]

If that's what he does, he deserves.

[A]

The problem is they can't. They can't know if they were right about banishing Eric. Right.

[B]

That's tricky. Exactly. It's so weird.

[A]

That's tricky.

[B]

That's his goal though. That would. That's the goal.

[A]

All right. Okay. Well, let's wrap this up, shall we?

[B]

Well, I think to wrap it up, you know that I'm an expert on.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Famous. Yeah, I mean that's basically. It's kind of. It was my Ph.D. one of them and I. This is a segment that we call Famous Tr. So still working on the song kind of Nickelbacky or. Hey, wait, let's not get insulting.

[A]

So it's that hooded singing thing. It's a gonna be Pearl Jam.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. We've got a modern day one here and one that was considered very dangerous. His name is Robert Hanson and he remains one of the most dangerous and skilled traders in American espionage history. Robert Hanson fooled the FBI for over two decades while spying for Soviet and Russian intelligence. His betrayal caused extraordinary damage to national security. He was caught in 2001 and received life without parole. Wow.

[A]

So he's still in prison.

[B]

He is still in prison. I think he's. He might even be in Florence supermax, like the one where all the baddies go wow. Which is. Yeah. So not a good guy.

[A]

All right, well, that's it for this episode of Pod. Meets twirled, alliances were tested, trust misplaced. And once again, we're left with the cliffhanger. Join us next time as we conclude is the next one last episode as we conclude our journey through season four of Traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair.

[B]

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