Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 411

Summary

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Pod Meets World – "Pod Meets Twirl'd: The Traitors 411" (February 27, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this lively season finale of "Pod Meets Twirl’d," hosts Will Friedle and Ryder Strong break down the conclusion of "The Traitors" Season 4. As two "Boy Meets World" alumni-turned-reality TV commentators, they dissect the game's big moments, discuss the emotional and ethical impact on contestants, and share their honest reactions to reality TV's shifting landscape. The episode is as much a psychological study and critique of reality TV as it is a recap, marked by the hosts’ signature mix of humor, candor, and nostalgia. This finale also signals their pivot to the next series, "Survivor," teasing richer strategic gameplay ahead.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions – The Emotional Roller Coaster of The Traitors

• Ryder is eager to move on from "The Traitors":
  "I want to get out of this castle." (03:18)
• Will expresses a desire to dive even deeper:
  "I want to get into the castle. I want some salmon by the lock." (03:19)
• Both hosts reflect on the game’s design, noting it’s reality TV-heavy and performance-oriented, particularly with celebrities.

2. The Ethical Quagmire of 'Traitors'

• Ryder critiques the show's focus on deception:
  "At the end of the day, it's a show about people lying to each other's faces. And I just... I just still don't like." (04:09)
• Will relishes the game's cutthroat nature:
  "Watching this man cut through these people with, like, this scythe of deceit is just magical." (06:02)
• They discuss the ending “ick factor,” especially the emotional fallout for contestants like Maura.

3. Memorable TV Moments – Maura’s Betrayal

• The hosts dive deeply into Maura’s raw reaction upon discovering Rob deceived her:
  • Ryder: "The look on Maura's face was pretty devastating." (06:27)
  • Will: "I watched it three times because it was… a beautifully honest moment in television." (06:45)
  • Notable Quote:
    Will: "She went, yupinky swan. Yupinky promised."
    Ryder: "Like, that's a binding legal contract."
    (07:09)

4. Reality TV as Psychological Experiment (09:17–12:12)

• The hosts compare The Traitors to other "manipulative" reality shows like Joe Schmo, Film Fakers, and Scare Tactics, discussing ethical boundaries and the evolution of audience expectations.
• Ryder: "You're taking advantage of actors' commitment to their art, which sucks." (10:20)
• Will: Points out, in The Traitors, no one was truly exploited because contestants knowingly sign up for this kind of duplicity.

5. Breaking Down the Final Moves (12:19–24:52)

• Will and Ryder analyze Mark’s elimination as a strategic masterstroke by Rob, who "kept the alliance intact, which made it look worse for them" (12:57).
• They scrutinize Rob’s use of charm and flirtation to manipulate Maura, highlighting the blurry line between game strategy and personal exploitation.
  • Will: "He’s brilliant... My God. He deserve; after a while, you just deserve the win." (14:05)

6. Overarching Themes – Trust, Manipulation, and Performance

• The interplay of trust and betrayal is front and center, with Maura as this episode’s tragic character:
  • Ryder: "She's a follower… She trusted Rob. That's the thing. She trusted the one guy you're not supposed to." (16:39)
• Discussion of "the ick factor" resurfaces, especially regarding Rob’s willingness to exploit Maura’s feelings.

7. The Mechanics of the Final Challenge (22:00–30:57)

• Lighthearted banter about eliminating contestants, the helicopter/stunt challenge, and (hilariously) swimming skills.
• Will: "If you are getting on a helicopter or plane, even if it's Alan coming, never take luggage from somebody else." (22:19)

8. Rob’s Unstoppable Game

• Rob’s ability to control others, especially Eric (a "crappy traitor"), is praised.
  • Will: "You have control of your fellow traitor, who looks like a shifty traitor, and you’re sidling up to the person that nobody thinks is a traitor, which is Maura. And you have been the entire show." (20:38)
• Johnny’s uncanny perception is noted: "It's Eric and Rob. He nails it. He knows it." (18:51)
• The episode builds tension around whether Maura will wake up to Rob’s betrayal – she doesn’t, and he wins.

9. The Final Confrontation – Banishment and Revelation

• Tension at the roundtable (36:08–43:38):
  • Rob makes his final (and convincing) arguments.
  • Maura votes alongside him, banishing Johnny and then Tara, unaware Rob is a traitor.
  • Will notes the importance of the pinky swear: "They pinky swore—they'd go to the end together, so they just voted everybody else off." (35:54)
• The climactic exposure of Rob as the traitor leaves Maura devastated.
  • Will: "It was so delicious. It had to be fattening.” (48:58)
  • Ryder: "You're never gonna have a girlfriend after this." (49:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Maura's Betrayal/Reaction (06:45–07:09):
  • Will: "I watched it three times because… it’s a beautifully honest moment in television."
  • Ryder: "She went, yupinky swan. Yupinky promised."
• On Manipulation (14:04):
  • Will: "He's brilliant... after a while, you just deserve the win."
• On Categorical Lying (04:09):
  • Ryder: "At the end of the day, it's a show about people lying to each other's faces… I just still don't like."
• On Rob's Performance (22:19):
  • Will: "If you are getting on a helicopter or plane… never take luggage from somebody else."
• On the “Ick Factor” (13:34):
  • Ryder: "I think she likes him… that's where it gets a little gross."
• On Legacy and Morality (49:47–49:54):
  • Will: "This is where the morality play comes in—were you a fool or were you a decent, trusting person?"

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Reality TV Ethics/Transition from Traitors to Survivor – 02:02–03:18
• Maura’s Betrayal & “Pinky Promise” – 06:45–07:18
• Discussion of Reality TV Manipulation (Film Fakers, Joe Schmo, etc.) – 09:03–12:19
• Analysis of Final Game Moves (Mark’s elimination, Rob’s manipulation) – 12:19–16:27
• The 'Ick Factor' with Rob and Maura’s Relationship – 13:34–15:55
• Final Challenge Details (Helicopter, Water Stunt, Swimming Skill Tangent) – 22:00–26:25
• Breakdown of Rob’s Strategic Dominance – 20:20–24:50, 36:08–44:50
• Final Fire Ceremony & Revelation – 48:52–50:31
• Reflection on Whether They'll Watch Next Season / Survivor Preview – 51:51–53:48
• Discussion of Famous Traitors in History (Judas Iscariot Segment) – 53:51–55:38

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Tone & Style

• The hosts blend critical analysis with classic "Boy Meets World" humor and warmth.
• Ryder is reflective and often troubled by the show's psychological games; Will delights in the game mechanics and villainy.
• Their banter is light, conversational, and peppered with behind-the-scenes references and asides, making it fun even in heavier moments.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This summary gives you a strong sense of what made the Traitors Season 4 finale so compelling—and controversial. You’ll grasp why hosts Will and Ryder were alternately repulsed and thrilled by the betrayal at the heart of the competition, gain insight into how reality TV blurs entertainment and manipulation, and enjoy sharp, witty recaps as only the "Pod Meets World" crew can deliver. The episode ends with a preview of their upcoming Survivor rewatch, promising a new slate of strategic (and hopefully, less icky) gameplay to discuss.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Rob’s win was both strategic genius and a study in emotional manipulation.
• Reality TV remains a moral gray area, even as it entertains—and the hosts’ personal discomfort is part of what makes the conversation so rich.
• The season is closed with nods to historical traitors and boyish humor, cementing the show’s unique voice.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Will Friedle]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist

[Will Friedle]

Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

As athletes, our lives are about having

[Will Friedle]

a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the

[Will Friedle]

best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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[Ryder Strong]

learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply. Welcome to POD meets Twirl, the podcast from two guys who had never seen an of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away experts. So now we've turned to traitors. Another show that I had never seen. While Will was convinced that he could win it. We are Will Friedle and Ryder Strong. Two best friends. One a TV expert, one a TV skeptic. Both dance scholars. Yeah. Join us as one more time we step into a castle full of lies, alliances, and over the top wardrobe choices. This is the finale of pod meets twirl. Trading Places.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, it's finale. That's how you pronounce it. I was saying finally.

[Ryder Strong]

Finally, finally. Well, this has been quite a journey, man.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I. I'm very excited. We've. We've already announced this, but we're moving on into Survivor and I'm glad. I want to get out of this castle.

[Will Friedle]

Really?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I want to get into the castle.

[Ryder Strong]

I know you do.

[Will Friedle]

I want some salmon by the lock.

[Ryder Strong]

I ultimately. And we had a great conversation with Chad about this.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And I think this game needs work. I think Traitors is pretty flawed as a game. Wow. And I think especially this season, and maybe it's less so when it's civilians or a different set of celebrities, but this felt very reality show heavy. You know, like, it felt more like. I don't know. I mean, the fact that we have two Love island people at the end. Right. Like, right. It just felt more performative and also left me a little icky feeling at the end.

[Will Friedle]

Even though I think you're kind of supposed to feel a little icky. There's a total ick factor to it. Absolutely.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. I think that there's, like a camp quality to it, you know, that. That I've loved and enjoyed, but that camp quality didn't detract that. At the end of the day, it's a show about people lying to each other's faces.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And I just. I just still don't like.

[Will Friedle]

Right, sure.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I don't like that.

[Will Friedle]

I love it.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't like feeling like I'm on the side of liars. And I don't. I don't blame them. Like, I really don't think Rob is a bad person, like, at all. Like, I mean, I don't think Eric. I don't think anybody. But it's also, like, it just puts them in this position that make that the strength.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And, yeah. I mean, we've said it since the beginning that I would be bad on this show.

[Will Friedle]

But wait, devil's advocate, could you go the way you taught? You and Danielle were always talking to me about Dancing with the Stars where It's like, if you just went in and thought of it as, like, a role. Right. Wouldn't that be the role you're playing on Traitors is as an actor, you're playing the treacherous guy. You're playing the villain. You're playing the sociopath.

[Ryder Strong]

No, that's the thing. And I think that's why the campy campiness is, like, the fun. Right. And make it so over the top with, like, murder. And, you know, the way, like, he just, like, slams their pictures down. Like, all of that, I think is. Is the only way that it's manageable that you're playing a really psychotic game otherwise. Right. But I don't think it ultimately can't remove the fact that it's still a show about, you know, lying. And maybe. Maybe because this is my first season and the Traders won. Spoiler. I mean, we're here, but, like, the. The fact that the Traders won. I wonder if I would feel the exact opposite if the faithful had won.

[Will Friedle]

Right. Because that's. Which is what happened last season, is all four Faithfuls won. And they were like, we did it. We. We did it. We did it together. Like, look how good we were.

[Ryder Strong]

It would feel like a triumph of, like, honesty. Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Of the spirit and honesty. Where this year, I was like. I was so. He was playing so well.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

That I was like, I want to see him go the entire way. And I was. I was calling every move. I was like, oh, now if he does this, I'm like, he can't do this. It's brilliant. If he does, I'm like, oh, my God. It's incredible. It was incredible all the way around. But, yeah, the last season, all the faithful did win, and there was like, this. We can do it. We did it together. Where as. Just watching this man cut through these people with, like, this. This scythe of deceit is just magical.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know. I. You know, we've talked about how reality has gotten less exploitative, and people kind of know what they're signing up for, but the look on Maura's face was, like, pretty devastating. And that I. It's. It made me. It brought it three times big. Did you. Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

I watched it three times because it was. It's also as horrible as it sounds. It's a beautifully honest moment in television. I mean, you watch this woman. Cause at first, you saw the look in her face where she's like, well, you're joking. Like, this can't be right. And then when she realized it was that look of wait. She was gutted. And it was my favorite part of the.

[Ryder Strong]

Which.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God, though. Because she said it like it was a legal, binding contract. She went, yupinky swan. Yupinky promised.

[Ryder Strong]

Like, that's a binding legal contract.

[Will Friedle]

Ya pinky promise.

[Ryder Strong]

Now you gotta lose a pinky. Yeah, now we take the pinky. Now we take the pinky. Man, I. I don't know. Like, it reminded me of Joe Schmo season one, which I. I'm pretty sure you watched. Right? I can.

[Will Friedle]

I can quote it. I loved that joke.

[Ryder Strong]

And do you remember how devastated he was to find out that the one guy who was like, his best friend,

[Will Friedle]

he's like, hold on, hold on.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, he was not happy, you know?

[Will Friedle]

And like, I think years later, which I don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know what the end result was, but I remember watching that multiple times, because when they revealed it, he went, are you kidding us? And grabbed that guy. And then was like, wait, what? And then looked at him, and it's pretty awful. And it felt similar in this moment. I was like, ugh.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Again, I also. I am one of those people where if you're gonna sign up for one of these reality shows, then whatever happens is on you.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, with Joe Schmoe, that was very manipulative. They were actually lying to him. Right, right.

[Will Friedle]

But they were. But they knew he was going to. You're going to a reality show where you're gonna sit a thing. Also, the thing that I loved about Joe Schmosho, the original one, was the reason people loved him, and he made it to the end. The way that he did is everything they threw at him. And every step of the way, he made the right choice as a decent person.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally.

[Will Friedle]

He never screwed anybody. He defended the king. Good. Amazing. Amazing. Totally. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And that was. You know, it's the same with, like. I know. Jury Duty. I didn't actually watch the whole season of Jury Duty.

[Will Friedle]

I've never seen it. I heard it was good, but I

[Ryder Strong]

think, you know, I think that is always the point. Right. It's like, they don't want to make somebody look that bad. Well, it's candy camera. It's still lying. It's still manipulating. And I don't. I just.

[Will Friedle]

But again, it's. That's can. It's Candid Camera. That's a hidden. A hidden camera show. That's punked. That's what I mean. That's what these things are.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't like any of them. I get uncomfortable.

[Will Friedle]

It's Funny, I'm not a huge fan of him either, but I'm okay with people like, at least in this case you're knowing what you're as. As Alan Cummings says at the end, the show is called Traitors.

[Ryder Strong]

So the worst one was a show called Film Fakers. Did you ever see that?

[Will Friedle]

No.

[Ryder Strong]

So it was my, my dear friend and amazing actor that I've worked with. He's in my new Red Weather podcast. Chris Wilde was on this as an actor and what they would do is create fake movies and hire actors. Oh and convince them that they were making a horrible movie. That these actors would commit to not knowing that everyone in the crew was an actor pretending to make a movie.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, I know how I feel about that.

[Ryder Strong]

It was so they were always like 20 somethings, young 20 somethings who thinking

[Will Friedle]

they're getting their break, a big role

[Ryder Strong]

and like, you know, like they did like a horror movie that was like, you know, so ridiculously dumb. But they would write whole scripts and they would actually go out with a camera crew and be shooting scenes but then meanwhile be shooting a behind the scenes documentary, the making of this movie, which is the actual reality show. And they would do multiple days of shooting before they revealed to these actors that like haha, you're actually on a reality show, you don't have the career. Like the moment you thought you.

[Will Friedle]

That yeah, that's mean man.

[Ryder Strong]

And Chris felt really bad about it. Of course he kept going and he, you know, did his job. But he was also like. This feels weird because you're, you're taking advantage of actors commitment to their art, which sucks.

[Will Friedle]

Now do you believe that anybody on Traitors was being taken advantage of?

[Ryder Strong]

No. I mean, and that's the thing. I mean Morris says it at the end, she, she, she calls him a bad man or whatever but then she says like it's the name of the show. You know, she. So I think she, you know, but she also just needs, it is more than anything a reality check on her own inability to judge people's character.

[Will Friedle]

I know, but, but if you, if you sign up for a show called Stabbing Castle and you get stabbed, that's on you. So you know what I mean? It's like. Yeah, the, the film Fakers. That would, that sounds.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I would never. Yeah, there was another one called Scare Tactics where they would like create crazy scary situations. Like somebody would pick, you know, and it would always be like one person would be in on it and they would bring their friend to like the desert for A party. And then, like, aliens would invade.

[Will Friedle]

Oh.

[Ryder Strong]

And they would. And it was so funny because you. What you saw, they put people in really scary situations that were, you know, otherworldly, like a ghost or a zombie or an alien. But what was amazing is that often people's reactions were pretty unentertaining because, like, when somebody's really scared, especially men, they shut down. It's like you go into fight or flight so you don't get, like, somebody screaming, like, ah. It's more like, oh, God, I'm gonna die. Or, oh, my God, aliens are real. I need to. It's like you shut down. So it actually became a kind of uninteresting show. Like, there, every once in a while, there'd be that one person who would, like, scream really loud or like, I can't believe this. And then there was the one time where they picked up a hitchhiker and the guy pulled a knife on them, and the guy who was being scared just beat the crap out of him. Right, exactly. Like, you did the right thing, but, like, this is just a game show.

[Will Friedle]

That's when you pull, you know, somebody pulls a gun and shoots the zombie in the head. And if that's an actor, that's a bad day at the network. Yeah, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, God. All right, well, let's get into our final episode where we revealed the murderer that was in plain sight was Mark. And this was a great set because they're like, get into the coffin.

[Will Friedle]

Get in the coffin.

[Ryder Strong]

And I love that he was just like, see you in hell. Yeah. As he walks over Mark, man, he really just flew under the radar and did nothing this entire season. It's a bummer.

[Will Friedle]

I thought this was the dumbest choice for the kill until.

[Ryder Strong]

Turns out to be brilliant.

[Will Friedle]

The episode kept going, and then I was like, again, great, great idea.

[Ryder Strong]

Perfect idea. I thought, for sure. Yeah. I mean, we talked about. I thought it was probably going to be Johnny or Tara.

[Will Friedle]

Me too.

[Ryder Strong]

Because you break up that alliance. But instead, he actually kept it intact, which made it look worse for them. Yeah. And that was so smart because.

[Will Friedle]

And got rid of arguably, even though he was quiet, probably the guy who was still the best player there.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And now. Now you're.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I think the thing that they didn't quite. I mean, we've been seeing in the last couple episodes, but I think it's been going on from the beginning is how much Mara and Robb were together and, like, how much she felt like they kind of edited around that. I think for the first half of the Season so that it would be a nice reveal at the end that worked out the way it did. But I think he's been playing her since the beginning.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, I think he has. And I think she likes him. I think it's like she was using. That's where it gets a little gross.

[Ryder Strong]

See, that's what I mean. Like, I think so, too.

[Will Friedle]

Brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedle]

Says it.

[Ryder Strong]

He's like, you know, they think I'm the hot dumb guy. It's like, nope, I'm the hot smart guy. Exactly.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly. And he knew she, like, I think he absolutely knew she liked her and was flirting with her.

[Ryder Strong]

And it's going to be flirting and milking that.

[Will Friedle]

Yep. Watching that, I know what you mean by the ick factor, but in my head I was just like, he's. It's brilliant. He's brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

Playing it so well.

[Will Friedle]

Brilliant. My God. He deserve you just after a while, you just deserve the win. Yep. Yeah. Crazy.

[Ryder Strong]

So Mark gets in the coffin and then says in his, like, post. Post death interview, he says he's putting his money on Eric, which is a good call and probably too late. Mark should have spoken up a little bit more. Or like we said, maybe he did and just got edited out. Either way, he was really ineffectual this season. And yeah, I was surprised.

[Will Friedle]

I think he got edited out because he. I guess he's given interviews and stuff since where he's talked about how he literally would go. Go back to the hotel, and he's like, I just had pages and pages of notes on anybody, on everybody. Wow. And I used to sit there and talk about my notes during the thing, and they would just cut it out.

[Ryder Strong]

Yep. Yeah. I think they. They very selective in their. Their storyline.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

As you have to be. All right, breakfast. Eric comes in alone, talks in his camera interview about how bad of a traitor he is, which is hysterical. I love this. Maura comes in and, well, she. In her interview to camera, she admits that she's been cheated on by every boyfriend. And I went, oh, God. That's where. I kind of knew where this was going. And it's like, maybe you shouldn't, like, take that as a sign that you think, don't trust the guy that you're attracted to right now. And just because he's a cool dude and you like him. Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

Man can wear overalls. Not a reason to follow him into the gates of hell.

[Ryder Strong]

I felt, yeah, dude. Okay.

[Will Friedle]

It seemed like a ruffle one for you, Ryder.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Seem like a rough one for you because you Know, I was just. It was. I feel bad for her because, you know, like, she says she was embarrassed. She's embarrassing. She was a fool. And it's kind of true. Like, it sucks, you know, And. And not because she's a bad person, because she trusted a dude who she was attracted to in life. Yeah. So then Rob just comes in, and this is exactly like last episode where he's just like Johnny, then Tara, with no explanation, no evidence, no argument. He's just telling her how to vote, and she's just like, yeah, Yeah. I mean, he's literally saying, we're gonna banish these two people in a row, which is, like, exactly what a traitor would say. He doesn't give any arguments. He doesn't say any doubts. And he. She's just following his confidence.

[Will Friedle]

And they cut it together this episode, especially in such a way where they're showing her doubts the whole way throughout the episode. So you really are wondering who she's gonna vote for.

[Ryder Strong]

No, I can't.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, See, I was.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I was.

[Will Friedle]

Her. Her face when. When he first said. When he walked in, he's, like, looking at Eric right over her at breakfast. He's like, first Johnny, then Tara. She was like, wait, what? Like, that came out of nowhere.

[Ryder Strong]

See, her problem. Her. She's such a follower. Do you know what I mean? Like, because every. Whoever she's talking to, she's kind of following them and just like, okay, okay, okay. And. Yeah. And I think, you know the part.

[Will Friedle]

She trusted Rob. That's the thing. She trusted the one guy you're. Now, they always say it's very warm under the wing of a dragon. So you. She trusted the wrong guy.

[Ryder Strong]

And when do you think. Because I wasn't really clear that he was turning on Eric until literally, the fire burned red.

[Will Friedle]

I. Oh, see, I figured he was going to. You figured he was 100%. 100%.

[Ryder Strong]

So do you think he was whispering in her ear, saying, like, it. Definitely. Because he.

[Will Friedle]

I don't know. I think the joy was he was letting Tara whisper into Maura's ear and then agreeing with Maura. Maybe it is Eric.

[Ryder Strong]

Maybe it is.

[Will Friedle]

He didn't.

[Ryder Strong]

But he didn't actually say that on camera, did he? Because she said.

[Will Friedle]

He nods. He nods. In the kitchen, she goes, I. I think it's Eric. And he goes, okay. And that's it. That's all you need.

[Ryder Strong]

So.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I'm on board with you. Yes. Then she makes.

[Ryder Strong]

Which gives him another hundred thousand dollars. Like, that is a. That is a hundred thousand dollar Nod right there. And he would have had to do it with Eric.

[Will Friedle]

He said that at the end, he goes, would you give 100 grand to

[Ryder Strong]

somebody you met three weeks ago?

[Will Friedle]

I wouldn't. Yeah. Brilliant, Brilliant. And remember, I was also thinking about what Ben said when he, when he came on the show, when he was like, yes, if you're a housewife, you know, $220,000 after taxes, you walk with what, 145, 150. You know, if you have $150,000 and you're Lisa Rinna, that doesn't mean anything or very little. You're Rob and you want to buy a farm and get married. And you came in whatever he did on. On Love Island. And yes, he's probably going to get endorsement deals and all that kind of stuff, but 150 grand is nothing to sneeze at.

[Ryder Strong]

Right? Well, it ends up being more. Right. It's like 220, I think.

[Will Friedle]

Well, it's 220 before taxes. So my guess is after taxes and everything, you walk with probably one grand. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's going to be significant for him. And walking with 150 grand is a lot different than walking with 75, which is what you would have done had Eric, had he been like, I'm. I'm with you, Eric. But no, he's like, I can. I can remove every piece off the board and I barely have to do everything. It's brilliant. He was. He's brilliant.

[Ryder Strong]

He played it well. Johnny and Tara came come in, and Johnny in his camera interview says, it's Eric and Rob. He nails it. He knows it. And it now just becomes for the rest of the episode, really, about who's gonna get Mara to go on their side. Right. Like, yeah, she was the. This is what I love.

[Will Friedle]

She meant nothing for a lot of the series.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

And now she's the crux of who's gonna win. She was the most important character this entire episode was Mora. Awesome. Yeah, awesome.

[Ryder Strong]

After breakfast, Tara talks to Mora and says, it's Eric. He's too quiet. She has good arguments, which are totally accurate, that Eric has not spoken up enough, that he has not been strategic, and that he's just too quiet, which is exactly right. And Moira says, my favorite line. She don't want to tink too much. Brain can't handle too much more.

[Will Friedle]

Brain can't handle too much more. Now, here's my overall question. My overall question is, when Rob chose Eric originally, was he already his head thinking, this will Be the easiest guy to burn. Like, did he already know that this was gonna be. He's like, I just moved another piece. Easiest thing in the world. I have a crappy traitor who's gonna be bad at being a traitor. Everyone's gonna start staring at him. So at the end, I can just cut ties with that guy and walk with everyone.

[Ryder Strong]

Everything.

[Will Friedle]

I think he did because he knew

[Ryder Strong]

he would be a bad trader, basically.

[Will Friedle]

Of course. Too quiet. Shift like that.

[Ryder Strong]

He was just.

[Will Friedle]

He wasn't good at being a traitor.

[Ryder Strong]

But don't you think he would have picked a more obvious, like, villainous type at that point? I'm trying to think.

[Will Friedle]

No, because it's perfect. Because it's also. Eric would also do anything Rob told him to do.

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

So it's. I mean, he had control of him from day one, and it was just like, now I'm gonna. I. Oh, God. You have control of your fellow traitor, who looks like a shifty traitor, and you're sidling up to the person that nobody thinks is a trai, which is Mara. And you have been the entire show. So, you know, it's like you and me towards the end. You and me at the end. So you've got the numbers that.

[Redfin Announcer]

Ugh.

[Will Friedle]

Genius. He's a genius.

[Ryder Strong]

So then they're brought outside, and this helicopter shows up, and they have to pick two people to go in it. Mara's really into the helicopter for some reason. She's like, I want to be in there. And.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Then Rob just gets in there. I can't believe he just.

[Will Friedle]

What would you do? What would you do? Would you have stayed on the ground or volunteered for the chopper?

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, the chopper is fun.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. I would've done the chopper.

[Ryder Strong]

More exciting, especially since I knew because they'd already made, like, a splashing reference that you knew was gonna deal with water. I'm like, that's cold, man. But of course, then Robin's up completely in the water, like, so would you have done that?

[Will Friedle]

Would you have jumped out of the chopper?

[Ryder Strong]

No, I don't think I would.

[Will Friedle]

I think I might have, and I hate this.

[Ryder Strong]

I mean, maybe just for the sake of adventure. That's what I meant. One thing.

[Will Friedle]

I might have just closed my eyes and jumped.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, of course.

[Will Friedle]

The whole time I'm sitting there going, don't jump up, up. Don't jump up. Don't jump up. I know. Don't jump up.

[Ryder Strong]

I had the same thought, man. Just. I would be so, like, just keep my head down. Just duck and roll out of there.

[Will Friedle]

Exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Just so crazy thing.

[Will Friedle]

But yeah, nuts.

[Ryder Strong]

They give him a chest, and Rob brings it onto the helicopter. And then this is where they. You know, she brings up Eric in the helicopter. And I thought he just kind of played it cool, like, he didn't overcome.

[Will Friedle]

He's also got his arm around her.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I know. This is where he's, like, fully flirting with her because he makes the, like, I know how to make you hot or whatever.

[Will Friedle]

She's like, I want to take a hot bath. He's like, I'll give you something hot. I mean, first of all, I'd also like to point out that if you are getting on a helicopter or plane, even if it's Alan coming, never take luggage from somebody else. You know, he hands you the chest. That's not right.

[Ryder Strong]

They say that in the announcements.

[Will Friedle]

You see something. Say something. Don't. Don't even for Malin coming. Don't just take random luggage and get on. And get on a flight. Don't do that.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, so now they have to. The other. The others have to ride a boat out to pontoons and a lock.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

Beautiful lock.

[Will Friedle]

Awesome.

[Ryder Strong]

While it's raining because it starts pouring

[Will Friedle]

and they have to drop Fine Scottish Day.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Rob and Maura have to drop the names from the helicopter. So they. Yeah, it's a.

[Will Friedle]

Did you get any of these?

[Ryder Strong]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

No, me neither.

[Ryder Strong]

Anything.

[Will Friedle]

Me neither. And I have a pretty good memory.

[Ryder Strong]

Do you see? I don't think I. Because I'm like, yeah. I don't remember things visually. So, like, when I asked, like, who was opposite Jam. Jam. I wouldn't have any clue. I Like, I would.

[Will Friedle]

You would have had you been sitting across from somebody for six hours, which

[Ryder Strong]

is how long they were.

[Will Friedle]

Which is how long they were there at the Black banquet. So you would have remembered. But, like, for week one, hey, what was the last coffin we put in? Like, all that stuff. I would not have remembered any of that.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, well, he was probably the least confident about that because that whether.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it was the $500 one.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, they asked that question. They ask which player started and ended on a shield throne, which I don't even know what they were talking about.

[Will Friedle]

Don't you remember the one where they. They're in the riding carriage, and it's like, if you get the shield, somebody has to get off.

[Ryder Strong]

Right. And you then get to get out of Colton.

[Will Friedle]

I think Colton was the one. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Right, Right.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. And then which housewife had the most votes overall, which was Lisa they get that right. So they get all of these right.

[Will Friedle]

They got them all right. That was amazing.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And then there's this cool, like, finale moment where they're like, you know, can you, you want to jump out of the helicopter and get another 20 grand? Which, yeah, I guess if it really came down to just. But I was like, rob is having the best time.

[Will Friedle]

Hell yes, he is.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm like, he is. He's getting to fly the helicopter. Do the most exciting part. He's winning this game. This means he's going to get more money because he's going to be the traitor at the end.

[Will Friedle]

And the beautiful Irish girl is in love with him. It's like perfect castle time.

[Ryder Strong]

I'm genuinely surprised how many people can't swim. Like, when Mara says, I can't swim, I'm like, damn. Like, I just take it for granted that everybody can swim, but like, actually my mother in law can't swim. Really? Yeah. And you know, like, she goes to pools, but it's just to like, Wade, you know.

[Will Friedle]

Have you said, let me teach you how to swim?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, dude. I mean, they, during the pandemic, they lived with us and we go swimming every day with Indy teaching him how to swim and like, getting better because he was only five, you know, and she, you know. No, doesn't do it, you know, but yeah. It's actually Columbia, where I went to college is. It's the only college left that requires a swim test. You can't graduate from Columbia unless you can swim, which I think is kind of cool.

[Will Friedle]

That's. It's such a weird thing to, to, to like, make you happy is like,

[Ryder Strong]

this is a life skill. Like, yeah, like, what's the point of all this education if you're just going to drown? You know, like, you should know how to swim. And I think it's, it's not. It's like, yeah, of course you can get out of it if you have a disability or, you know, which I'm sure would count even if you just had a phobia and didn't want to do it, you could get out. But they keep it as this nice, like, tradition that you have to pass a swim test in order to graduate. And I, I kind of love it. It's kind of like old school. Like. Yeah. If you're a college educator.

[Will Friedle]

I'm curious, what is the test?

[Ryder Strong]

You just have to swim a couple laps. I actually didn't have to do it because I ended up taking scuba as a, as a course as. And so something creepy under boat.

[Will Friedle]

Andy.

[Ryder Strong]

My sir. My first day of scuba, I. They just allowed, you know, I just swam like two laps. And they're like, okay, that's enough for the swim test.

[Will Friedle]

You qualify, but the regular test is like you, you get into it.

[Ryder Strong]

Otherwise they have swim tests like at the as graduation nears. They have like certain days of the week where everybody can go and just take the swim test and you just, just, they just oversee you doing. I think you just swim to one side of the pool and back. It's like one, one lap.

[Will Friedle]

Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. I think it's kind of cool though. I honestly think it's like, I don't mind.

[Will Friedle]

I'm guessing that'll go away in the next 10 years because people are going to be like, I shouldn't have to take my shirt off in front of other people to swim in the pool. And then they're going to be like, okay.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, I actually haven't looked up. Maybe it's already gone away, but no Columbia. What's. You know, Columbia is kind of known for holding to some of these old school ideas. Like for instance, they have two required courses that everybody who goes to Columbia has to take. One is a year long literature course where you study all. And it's like the great books kind of, you know, like. So it starts with Western. Like it's all western, but it's, it'll start with like Homer and go all the way to the 20th century by the end. And you have to do it in discussion groups. And then the second year long course you take, your second year is called Contemporary Civilization. It's all philosophy and politics. Oh, that's interesting. It's. Dude, they're the greatest courses ever. And they're, they're very variable as far as how they're taught because they're mostly taught by like grad students or TAs because there's. Everybody has to take it. So there's a lot of sections of it. But if you get a good teacher or even if you don't, you have a great discussion group of fellow students. It is so much fun. And we call Contemporary Civilization ends up being called Cocktail conversation. Because the idea is really, this is just about did you read Aristotle in college? And it makes you sound smart, but I have to say it has come in handy. There are plenty, especially when it comes to the Greek texts. I never would have read have read a play by Aristophanes. I wouldn't have. You know, there's. And instead I was forced to. And I loved a lot of this stuff. And I do feel like it's come up, you know, in. In life where this. It's a good education. I wouldn't have chosen some of these texts to read. So I'm old school. Like, I'm kind of like. Yeah. You know, and I'm all about dismantling or criticizing the canon, but you should know the canon first. Sure. You know what I mean? Like, sure.

[Will Friedle]

Of course.

[Ryder Strong]

Question these books, like, you know, especially because a lot of them are white men who, you know, didn't want to hear from anybody else in the world.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

But you still should read their. Their thoughts. You're still good. Anyway, now, which. Which.

[Will Friedle]

Which one has come in more handy? That class or swimming?

[Ryder Strong]

I already could swim, so. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I would have died. Swimming's great, man. Like, that's the thing. Like, Aristophanes don't help you if you're

[Will Friedle]

in the middle of the ocean.

[Ryder Strong]

Think about how. Yeah. I mean, there's so. I mean, I go whitewater rafting. Yeah. I. You know, I'm not a big beach guy, but I went through a period where I was a surfer. I was into surfing. Like. Like, you just.

[Will Friedle]

It should.

[Ryder Strong]

Everyone should know how to swim.

[Will Friedle]

I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

But I'm surprised with reality shows how often people either don't swim or are just really bad. Like, they're just like. It seems like one of those life skills.

[Will Friedle]

Like.

[Ryder Strong]

So anyway, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

It also depends, I think, where you grow up. You know, you grew up. You grew up in the. A landlocked city. City or something like that. It's like, yeah, I never learned how to swim. That kind of thing.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally. Yeah. Or just access to a pool. Right?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Like being able to afford if, you know, public pools are. Are not what they used to be. I feel like. Yeah. All right, where were we? Okay. The flirting and the helicopters getting hot and heavy.

[Will Friedle]

Yep. Blatantly hot and heavy. He's playing it so well.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, Rob jumps out of the. That's where we were. He jumps out of the helicopter. He has to swim pretty far in the cold water. And this is where I remembered that Chad said the thing about the clock not being.

[Will Friedle]

I did, too.

[Ryder Strong]

But do you remember what his evidence was or how he knew that?

[Will Friedle]

I think because he knew everything. Because it was so cheesy.

[Ryder Strong]

How it was like 10 seconds left, and he barely made it. And he's like, this does feel manipulated.

[Will Friedle]

He's like, didn't you notice how they always end with 3 seconds left? And then you watch. And it was like three seconds left.

[Ryder Strong]

It's way too convenient, man.

[Will Friedle]

I literally turned over. Sue was watching with me. I leaned over. I was like, the clock is fake. He's gonna end. Three seconds left. And he did.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yep.

[Ryder Strong]

I feel that upsets me a little bit.

[Will Friedle]

Did they ever do a challenge, this whole thing where they lost because of the clock? Did that ever happen? I feel like it did in the cabin.

[Ryder Strong]

Did they run out? I think in the cabin they might have. When they did all the horror stuff, I feel like I can't remember, but

[Will Friedle]

I feel like there was one that something. The clock did mess them up somehow, but for the most part, they got it in just under the wire. Oh, last season.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, then, I don't know. I. Yeah, it seems, like, useless.

[Will Friedle]

It did seem manipulative. Yeah, I agree.

[Ryder Strong]

They looked cold, dude.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, you're in a lock in the rain.

[Ryder Strong]

But they were, like, shivering uncontrollably. I was like, dude, this is unbelievable.

[Will Friedle]

And these are ice hockey gold medal champions.

[Ryder Strong]

I know.

[Will Friedle]

That are shivering like that in the. In the rain. So it was. It was chilly. Yeah.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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[Will Friedle]

a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the

[Will Friedle]

best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA.

[Ryder Strong]

And you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender and MLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

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[Ryder Strong]

All right, then they, they all head back, dry off Tara and Johnny powwow. They totally trust one another.

[Will Friedle]

Well, first of all, there's the car ride back. The car ride back where, where Tara is like trying to get Eric to see and it even, I was like, dude, lie better. Yeah, Eric is just, he was bad at lie. Just lie better. But again, all this works in Rob's favorite. Yep, yep.

[Ryder Strong]

And then once they get back, Mara lies right to Eric's face, which was super interesting. Like to watch her, you know, go on on one hand, be like, with a little like questioning whether he is a traitor or not, lie right to his face. And then, I mean I feel like this is where Rob knows exactly what's going to happen for the rest of the night because he's like, oh, she is lying to him and totally trusting me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. Well, here's the other thing. They all agreed that they thought. They believed anyway that there were two traitors left. Okay, Maura, then. Because Rob says two votes for Tara, Johnny and Eric. Yeah. So she knows she's voting a faithful out.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, it just. If just by the. The law of. There's two of you left. She voted for three different people that Rob Wanderer, too.

[Ryder Strong]

Because she says. She says she thinks that Eric is a traitor and so is Johnny.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which just makes no sense, because why would Johnny be voting for Eric if those were the two traitors? Right. So her logic, it's like.

[Will Friedle]

But it's also. Then why vote for Tara?

[Ryder Strong]

Exactly. Because Rob said so. Right. Following along, she's just like, I suspect everybody but Rob.

[Will Friedle]

It's gonna be, yeah, we're gonna vote everybody else out there and we're gonna be traitors.

[Ryder Strong]

Or you're right that she's just going to take.

[Will Friedle]

That's what it was. She just said. They. They made. They pinky swore, which again, is binding in 17 US states and I think most of Europe. They pinky swore they'd go to the end together, so they just voted everybody else off. Rob is like, it should just be us.

[Ryder Strong]

It should just be us.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, it is icky.

[Ryder Strong]

See?

[Will Friedle]

But in a wonderful way. It's a wonderful ick.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, then we're at the round table. Rob brings up Tara and Johnny. Then Johnny is pretty spot on with his argument.

[Will Friedle]

I will say this, though. If you're gonna play this game, don't do anything sketchy right off the bat. And when you come in and you're best friends and you go out of your way to make. To pretend you're not best friends, to then come back later to go, we're best friends and we've been pretending we haven't been, then all the traitors need to do is keep pointing to that. Look, you're the only one who did anything sketchy. Just you two. It's a stupid thing to do.

[Ryder Strong]

And Rob lays it out perfectly at the roundtable when he says they would have. Even if one of them wasn't a traitor to begin with, they would have recruited one another because of their friendship, which is exactly right. And once you think that through, you know, not that he really needs to make that complicated of an argument, because I think Mara would have voted with him no matter what, but it is a great argument. It's. You know, it's. Finally, he's actually giving an argument which, like before, when he was just like, first Johnny, then Tara, he wasn't saying this clearly, but that's a great argument. And all he needs to convince right now is Mara. That's literally the only person he's arguing to.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Which is insane.

[Will Friedle]

And the second they voted Johnny out, he knew he won.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it. That's it.

[Will Friedle]

He knew he had won. Oh.

[Ryder Strong]

So they banished Johnny, who was pissed

[Will Friedle]

and who had it right for the first time, had it right.

[Ryder Strong]

It was Eric and Rob. He knew it. So he'll. He'll feel vindicated now and then. So after they banished Johnny, Tara goes to Moira and says it's Rob, which gets a little bit of doubt. Maybe.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

You know, they play this up, but.

[Will Friedle]

But I love how they did it. They just keep cutting to her and that she becomes the most important character in the show. They just keep cutting her going like, what if I'm wrong? What if I. What if I'm wrong the whole time? Oh, well, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Every boyfriend has cheated on her. Oh, that's what she said. She's just got a horrible trust issue.

[Will Friedle]

As well she should. I mean, my God, if every boyfriend you've been with has cheated on you, you're. You're.

[Ryder Strong]

You're.

[Will Friedle]

You're picking stick is bad.

[Ryder Strong]

So then they go into this final fire moment and they do that interesting thing where they each get to sit down with Alan before, you know, they go into the finale and he sort of gets a little quote from both of them. Mara is looking like a robot dominatrix.

[Will Friedle]

I. I noticed that too. Like. Like she'd just come out of the Matrix.

[Ryder Strong]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

It was also, like. It made her, like, her arms and everything look metal. You know what I mean? So it was like. It was a good look, but it

[Will Friedle]

was a great look. She's a stunningly beautiful woman.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

The other thing that I. It finally clicked to me because I'm always like, God, Alan Cumming. Amazing. Fabulous. But who does he remind me of? Who does he remind me of? And I finally realized it today. Caesar Flickerman. He's Caesar Flickerman. He hosts the Hunger Games.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I've never seen those.

[Will Friedle]

It was Stanley Tucci plays the carrot plays the part. And that's exact. He's Caesar Flickerman from the Hunger Games.

[Ryder Strong]

And so.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, my God.

[Ryder Strong]

So, yeah, because that has, like a whole game show element to it, right?

[Will Friedle]

And he's big. And Brad, he's got these big teeth and he's like. It's just. He's Caesar Flickerman from The Hunger Games. And it was. I was watching this episode like, oh, my God, that's who he is.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, even before he lit up, my note was, alan is a blue Christmas tree, because that's what he looked like. Or like, at least like a Christmas tree skirt. And then he lit it up at the end, I was like, oh, my God, I love it. You just are walking Christmas tree.

[Will Friedle]

I love it so much.

[Ryder Strong]

And Rob is back in his overalls with his snake arms showing.

[Will Friedle]

Those are his dress up.

[Ryder Strong]

Revealing himself to be a snake.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, those are his dress up overalls, though. Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Everybody knows Ron Funches did a whole. Did a. A sketch on Instagram or on. On Tik Tok or whatever. And it's. It's him waking up in the castle to get ready and then walking down in his own overalls with no shirt and then seeing Rob wearing his and going, God damn it. Having to go change. So funny. That's so funny. Yeah, he's been doing some great sketches. I don't know if you've been catching them, but I have not.

[Will Friedle]

I gotta.

[Ryder Strong]

We need to talk about it. He did one where he has ptsd and he's like, at an engagement party eating cake with friends and then thinking they're all traitors. Like, you're a traitor.

[Redfin Announcer]

And you're.

[Ryder Strong]

Where's Alan? He's coming out of your son. And it's so funny. They're like, ron, you're not in the castle. It's okay.

[Will Friedle]

Well, they're already doing that. I saw a commercial this morning for Sonic, which is Rob showing up at Lisa Rinna's house.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, my God.

[Will Friedle]

With Sonic going. And she's like, I'm not letting you in here, Snake. And he's like, I brought Sonic. And she's like, all right, come on in. Like, it's that whole thing. Yeah, they're all. They're capitalizing on it now.

[Ryder Strong]

More money.

[Will Friedle]

Of course.

[Ryder Strong]

Of course.

[Will Friedle]

But we've got to have. We've got to have them on the show. As many as them we can get. Because I want to talk to some people about what's going on.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. They get around this fire. The option is whether to banish again or down to two.

[Will Friedle]

You go down to two, and then you can't banish anymore. So.

[Ryder Strong]

But one by one, they all burn red because they all have a theory.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, there's a trade.

[Ryder Strong]

There's traders among them, and the votes are completely predictable. Mara votes Tara, which means Tara's banished.

[Will Friedle]

See, I didn't think those were predictable. I thought maybe Mara had. There was a chance. Had changed her mind.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. And then this is where I thought it was going to end. I really didn't think that. I thought that she was, you know, in Rob's pocket enough, but still not convinced that Eric was. Was a traitor. But. And that's why I think he was probably in moments that they downplayed getting her to turn on Eric more than he played, than he actually quite possible.

[Will Friedle]

Because, I mean, the fact that he burned red, too.

[Ryder Strong]

Because he could have just let her burn red. Right. And then they still have to vote. And at that point, he could just say, okay, Eric, I will vote. But the fact that he burns red and she burns red for the second time means that he's going all in for this move with her, which means, I think that he was saying a little bit more than he maybe, quite possibly, we're gonna do this.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And then this.

[Will Friedle]

And then it's you and me, and then we're gonna win the whole thing.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I think he played it hard because he could have easily. Because, you know, also, he. He would have had the same results by burning green at this point, like I said, you know, like.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And Eric would have been. But. And this is what gets weird for me is like, they. They burn red, and now they have to go around and vote.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And what can Eric say? Why can't he just say, Maura, you're. You know, he's a traitor. I know he's a traitor. Like, he can't.

[Will Friedle]

I don't think. No, because the only. Because I think when you take the traitor's oath, you're not allowed to say, like, to ever reveal. Right. Like, because Lisa Rinna. Then walking out could be like, by the way, Rob's a traitor, too. We were in the tower together.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

Like, you're not allowed to do that. So. But he did say.

[Ryder Strong]

But he can't argue.

[Will Friedle]

I mean, he did say to her, as he's. You know, as he's sitting there, think about the. The one person you haven't looked at around this table.

[Ryder Strong]

Totally. But see, that's what I mean. Why doesn't he. Why can't he make an argument like, you're gonna vote me out? It's actually. I mean, I think if there's a traitor left among us, it's Rob. But he doesn't even.

[Will Friedle]

He. He tried. I mean. Cause then he votes for Rob. So that's what he's trying to do. That's where he's like, think about it. You gotta Think about who's the person.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

But that's also exactly what a traitor would do. I mean, if I was Rob, I'd be like. Cause he looks at her and he's like, he. His head. Like that's ridiculous. Because of course he's got to keep playing it. Like, no, of course that's what a trader is going to do. He's going to try to get you to vote for me and then he wins all the money where, you know, you and I are still faithfuls. Let's just win this thing together. Like we said. We're going to. And go from there.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, Eric is. You know what, he has this interesting quote of like speech to camera about how relationships matter more than the money or the game. And it doesn't feel good to him.

[Will Friedle]

I disagree. He was just, he just got outplayed. No, I'm just saying for him, he didn't give a shit about Rel. He wouldn't have cared at all had they won. It would have been a whole different thing. But he then got, you know that he. And he and a guy planned a bank robbery. They got in there, they were about right, about to walk out the door, and the guy turned to him and said, give me your money too. And that pissed him off. And so then it's, well, I wouldn't have done that. Bullshit. I think if you'd thought about it. You really.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think I would have done it. I think I would have just gone

[Will Friedle]

with your other trader.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

So then you would have split the money with your trader. Yeah, you know, there's a, there's a possibility I would have to. Like, I would have. There's a, you know, the loyalty among thieves kind of thing. I guess there's a possibility I would have done that as well.

[Ryder Strong]

But here's my question. Could they banish Mara?

[Will Friedle]

They wouldn't have needed to, but they could have. They could have. But then why? Because, because again, if there's one traitor left, then, Then they win.

[Ryder Strong]

She burned red and, and, and the. They burned green because they thought that they were going to win. They could then at that point, couldn't they just both vote for her and traders win?

[Will Friedle]

I think so. But the traitors win anyway because if one traitor's there, right. Then the traitors win.

[Ryder Strong]

But I think if Erica see this game, I don't know, man, feels so random to me. It does not feel like that much of a strategy game.

[Will Friedle]

I love it. Oh, see, I think he's perfectly showing you what the strategy Is. Is he Literally. It was. He was one of 24 people. And over the time he was there, one by one, he removed every single person in the game until he was the last person. Yeah, that's.

[Ryder Strong]

But that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Other than the secret, I guess he

[Ryder Strong]

still hadn't got to vote, right?

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Secret traders.

[Will Friedle]

So, I mean, one by one, he systematically got every piece off the board until he was the last person standing and walked with all the money.

[Ryder Strong]

My God.

[Will Friedle]

Incredible. Diabolical.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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[Will Friedle]

a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the

[Will Friedle]

best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA.

[Ryder Strong]

And you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender and MLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending act, conditions and restrictions may apply.

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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[Ryder Strong]

Then we have the moment where it's revealed to her that he's a traitor. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, it was so delicious. It had to be fattening. It was just.

[Ryder Strong]

I love. You're never gonna have a girlfriend after this. After this.

[Will Friedle]

You're such a good liar.

[Ryder Strong]

He's a bad man. But then she's like, but good him.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And I appreciate that. She did seem to come around and say, like, whatever, you know, but, But I just love. She's calling him a snake. And the guy has a literal snake on his arm, like. Yes. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And I love how he's like, I've been a traitor from the beginning. Like, the whole time I've been a traitor. But she, it's so rare that you see a moment on television that you know is going to be a meme forever and her face is going to be a meme forever.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And she's like, you made me look so stupid. And they're like, no, we didn't.

[Ryder Strong]

No, you kind of did a little bit. She's like, I'm a fool. Yeah. And again, we're fooled. It's.

[Will Friedle]

This is where the morality play comes in, because it's like, were you a fool or were you a decent, trusting person?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, exactly.

[Will Friedle]

And so if you're a decent, trusting person, you're not a fool. You, you know, you get to walk

[Ryder Strong]

with your head inclined. It seemed like, like this is part of this was thing that it was kind of a love connection that you, you're gonna trust that. Do you know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

Like, yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

And that's why it's pretty crappy. You know that.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

I, I, I don't know. Like, I feel like it's one thing to, like, play a logical cold game where you're out matching somebody. It's another to, like, kind of like sleep with the enemy, which, I don't know. You know, I don't think they actually slept together. No.

[Will Friedle]

No. But play on the heartstrings.

[Ryder Strong]

A little bit of, like, heartstrings and flirtiness and like, I know what this woman like, so I'm gonna use it.

[Will Friedle]

Hell yes. I think Eric probably looked up to him a little bit like an older brother. And it's like, I'm gonna use that relationship. I'm gonna use she's got a crush on me. I'm gonna use that relationship. I mean, that's. I mean, that's the. That's how you win at these things. Is your cold hearted. At least that's how you win as a traitor. Again. Last season, it was four people that you really liked, including Dylan Efron, who by the end, my wife and I both would have dated the guy where we're like the nicest guy. Most honest. Yes. The faithfuls won. That's great. That's awesome. They got everybody and they trusted each other to all throw green at the end. Like, they, they. They got it this time. This guy was playing so well that I was like, I'm in. I'm all in on the villain winning.

[Ryder Strong]

My favorite line is when he's at the end. Like, now I just have to find a nice girl who hasn't watched too much tv. Watched too much tv. How are you gonna come back from this?

[Will Friedle]

Apparently, according to my wife, who's in the know, he's dating somebody now.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

All right.

[Will Friedle]

Which I think is a terrible thing because we were talking to Ben who said that if this guy became the next Bachelor, it would be the biggest bachelor season in the history of the show, which is saying something that shows enormous.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

So, I mean, this guy, you know, hopefully he'll break up with whoever he's with now so he can get on the Bachelor.

[Ryder Strong]

Come on, watch it, Rob. I don't know. Treacherous.

[Will Friedle]

I haven't either. I'm sure we'll watch it eventually. I've literally never seen a single episode.

[Ryder Strong]

Well, treacherous.

[Will Friedle]

Treacherous, my friend.

[Ryder Strong]

I thought, yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Will you do next season?

[Ryder Strong]

I don't know. I don't. I think. I don't think the challenges are integrated well enough.

[Will Friedle]

Those need to be changed 100%.

[Ryder Strong]

And, you know, I think you're going to appreciate. I think after you watch Survivor, you're going to appreciate the kind of gameplay that that requires. And it's a different. There's a backstabbing and manipulating alliances and. Yes. But it's very. There's something about it because the challenges are so linked to the actual gameplay. Right. Like, you only have to vote people out if you fail at the challenge. The immunity challenge, like, especially as a tribe.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

So, like, when it gets to the individual game, it is similar to traders, but at that point, you've already been through so much. You start working together as a tribe and also, like, you only have to vote somebody out because you have to. Like, it's not. I don't know, there's. The game doesn't require you to lie to people's face. The way the traders is like, literally built on deception and lying and. And the whole thing is about who's lying and who's not. Survivor, you can play it kind of a multitude of ways. You could play very honorably and up front. You probably won't last, but you can.

[Will Friedle]

Right. Has anybody won playing honorably and up front? Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, for sure. Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, so that's possible then.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, There. There are time. Well, here's the thing. Honorable and upfront to their select group, you know, like.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

Because you ultimately do have to vote, but there have been times when it gets down to the final three and they all love each other and they all respect one another and they're like, well, one of them us, you know, and they have to have one winner, but they actually are like, hey, we got here together. Like, we did work together. We never lied to one another. Like, we made a promise and we kept it. That. That, you know, ultimately that does happen like, that some, you know, but I

[Will Friedle]

wonder if anybody split the money.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't think so. And that's the thing. Like, that's what I wonder. Like, can you. Can you say, like, sure, once it's

[Will Friedle]

your money, I can be like, hey, they just gave me a million dollars. I can give you 300 grand. You know, like, that's on me. They can't tell me I can't give you money. It's mine.

[Ryder Strong]

Right.

[Will Friedle]

So, yeah, but I get it. My guess is they're like, oh, my God, we got her together. Can I have some money? No, no, no, you can't. I think because this is our last episode, My Will's History of Traitor. I wanted the song to be special, but I also wanted to find what I think most people maybe would agree is the biggest traitor in history, or at least considered the biggest traitor in history. And I fought with this because you could go the American route with somebody like Benedict Arnold. You could go Marcus Brutus, you know, a two brute. There's several ways to go. But I think a lot of people would not disagree with the final traitor we're gonna talk about. And that is, of course. Do you Have a guess.

[Ryder Strong]

No, those are the only two that I really know.

[Will Friedle]

Judas Iscariot, of course, Jesus. So no name is more synonymous with treachery than that of Judas Iscariot. He was one of the twelve apostles, but according to the New Testament, he betrayed Jesus for 30 silver pieces to the Roman overlords. However, here's the interesting thing. Lately in the last 20, 25 years, there have been some revisions to the Judas story with the discovery of the gnostic texts called the Gospel of Judas, which depicts Judas as an obedient servant of Jesus. And these texts actually describe conversations between Judas and Jesus that suggest that Jesus himself instructed Judas to betray him to the Romans so that he could be sacrificed again. It does not change the fact that when you think of traitors, you go, it's pretty hard pressed to find anybody

[Ryder Strong]

work if you're a Judas.

[Will Friedle]

Way to go, Judas. So you've made it to the top of our list, Judas Iscariot.

[Ryder Strong]

What do you, what would you want your name to be associated with? Like, oh, you totally Friedell that up. Are you Will Freddell?

[Will Friedle]

You pulled a Fredell something funny, like pulling a joke out of nowhere maybe. Like, that was a great Freddell or Freddellism, something like that.

[Ryder Strong]

How about you winning like every award? You know, like, like the egot, like, oh, you, you won a Grammy.

[Will Friedle]

Are you strong?

[Ryder Strong]

Nobel Peace Prize and a Pulitzer. I don't know. So it had to be some, you know, some like evil culture.

[Will Friedle]

You won the Driving at Le Monde and a Nobel Peace Prize. Congratulations. Wow. Oh, that's great. Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. You. You directed a movie that was the highest grossing film and won the Academy award for best picture. So that's like a James Cameron, right? Like, you Cameroned it.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

That would be pretty great. I like it.

[Will Friedle]

So next season you're in, you're not in?

[Ryder Strong]

I'm. I don't think I'm in, man. I mean, I, I do like the idea of civilians. That interests me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, yeah, that's coming next.

[Ryder Strong]

Because they will come in with less baggage and I think be less performative in certain ways and I think there will be more character revelation as opposed to fulfillment of their pre established role. You know what I mean?

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

So that does interest me and I think I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. Completely.

[Will Friedle]

100% agree with you that the game needs to be tweaked.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, it needs to be tweaked.

[Will Friedle]

100%, yep. 100% agree with you.

[Ryder Strong]

I think the challenge thing is just not Interesting enough. I mean, the set pieces are cool,

[Will Friedle]

they look cool, but they seem tacked on.

[Ryder Strong]

They're just the money thing. I mean, I just think Chad is absolutely right. Like, the money is not that it should not be a part of it or shouldn't. In the same way, you know, there should be money, but it shouldn't be so tied to. That's all you're doing in the challenges is increasing or decreasing your prize money.

[Will Friedle]

Right.

[Ryder Strong]

All right, well, that is it for this season of pod. Meets twirled, alliances were tested, trust misplaced, and we weren't left with a cliffhanger. Unless we wonder about Rob's life afterwards. Ooh, will he ever find love? Join us next time as we take on Survivor season 50. That's all I got.

[Will Friedle]

That's all you got? You're not going to go out with the final Scottish play?

[Ryder Strong]

All right, fine.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

This has been season four of Traitors, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair. I tink Fair is foul.

[Will Friedle]

I tink it's foul.

[Ryder Strong]

I think fair. That was foul. We Pinky swore. We pick.

[Will Friedle]

Janice Torres here, and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Ryder Strong]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is

[Will Friedle]

to be part of that change. So Listen, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Ryder Strong]

Your bill, ladies.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Will Friedle]

Seriously, I insist.

[Ryder Strong]

I insisted first.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Don't be silly. You'll not be silly.

[Ryder Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Ryder Strong]

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. No the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card, visit wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

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