Richard Karn Meets World

Summary

Pod Meets World – "Richard Karn Meets World"

Release Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Danielle Fishel
Co-hosts: Will Friedle, Rider Strong
Guest: Richard Karn (Al Borland from Home Improvement, Family Feud host)

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Overview

This episode beams listeners back to the heyday of 1990s television, reuniting the Pod Meets World crew with one of the era's most beloved sitcom fixtures, Richard Karn. Best known as Al Borland on Home Improvement and later as the host of Family Feud, Karn reminisces about his guest stint on Boy Meets World, the origins of his iconic TV career, on-set stories from ABC's golden age, and what it’s been like living with sitcom fame for over 30 years. The conversation blends nostalgia, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, heartfelt career lessons, and plenty of laughter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Richard Karn’s 90s Sitcom Legacy

• Intro (14:38)
  Danielle warmly introduces Richard Karn, giving fans a refresher on his impact as the flannel-iconic Al Borland and his connection to Boy Meets World as Victor, the animal control officer (“This Little Piggy,” S3).
• Karn’s Reaction: “Oh my gosh.” (14:38, Richard Karn)

2. Remembering "Boy Meets World" and Cross-Show Days

• Recalling the Appearance (16:20)

  • Karn admits he hasn’t seen his BMW episode since it aired and looked forward to being “surprised” by the discussion.
    “I vaguely remember the show. And to be honest with you, I haven’t seen the show since.” (16:20, Richard Karn)

• Working with the Cast and Animals (17:36)

  • All hosts remember pigs being difficult scene partners.
  • Karn reflects on working with various animals on both Home Improvement and Boy Meets World. “I’ve worked with a monkey. I’ve worked with dogs. I’ve worked with Tim Allen.” (18:06, Richard Karn)

• Disney Lot Memories
  Fond talk of being neighboring shows on the Disney lot and the unique “cage” where the BMW young cast did outdoor activities (21:02).

3. The Wild Origin Story of Al Borland

• Summer Stock to Sitcom Star (24:25–35:15)

  • Karn recounts his early years in theater, moving from Seattle to NYC, summer stock, fateful relationships with future sitcom writers, all the way to being invited to audition for Home Improvement—via a traffic-ticket-induced meeting with a Gersh Agency agent. “When you get them [opportunities], you can walk it back… everything was linked primarily back to doing summer stock in Holland, Michigan, in like, 1983.” (24:25, Richard Karn)

• Serendipity & The Pilot’s Casting Drama

  • Karn was not originally cast as Al Borland—he took over for Stephen Tobolowsky, who couldn’t do the pilot. He flew under the radar as a temp, only to officially land the role after the audience loved the back-and-forth with Tim Allen. “The audience knew who we were before we knew who we were.” (41:35, Richard Karn)

  • Patricia Richardson replaced Frances Fisher as Jill three days into rehearsal, and Karn describes the subtle alchemy that made the Richardson-Allen dynamic work. “It was like—she was his equal. She wasn’t a victim to Tim. She was his equal. And that’s why it worked.” (37:21, Richard Karn)

4. Celebrity, Recognition, and Keeping it Real

• Fame Creep (45:06)

  • Karn explains how being recognized for Home Improvement snowballed and shares the moment he realized, “I don’t need this [apartment manager] job anymore.”
  • Will describes being starstruck as a 17-year-old at an ABC party and awkwardly staring at Karn until the actor graciously introduced himself: “To this day, every time I think about it, I still get retroactively embarrassed for myself.” (52:31, Will Friedle)

• Approach to Fame

  • Karn discusses how actors should treat fans, observing, “You either have to be okay with this, or you’re going to be upset all the time.” (53:00)

5. The Business: Likeness, Contracts, and Commercials

• Disney and the Business of TV Stardom (55:15)

  • On needing to keep his beard for commercials and how Disney used that as a rationale to withhold raises: “Disney equated that with them giving me a raise. Like, we don’t need to give you a raise because we’re letting you do commercials.” (55:32, Richard Karn)

• Contracts and Likeness

  • Discussion of contracts granting Disney rights to their likeness in “any universe,” and jokes about whether AI will keep reanimating their characters forever. (56:13)

6. Family Feud and Game Show Life

• How Karn Became a Game Show Host (56:54)

  • Initially turned down Family Feud, then reconsidered—joking that a random bar patron told him not to do it, but producers convinced him it was a “family venue.” “If I decide to do it, I’m doing it… I’m committing.” (58:33, Richard Karn)

  • Insights: Crowd work, improv, and letting writers' contributions go when hosting; shared challenges of being both authentic and fast-paced in syndication. (59:05–60:18)

7. Looking Back and Forward

• Conventions & Enduring Legacy (63:37)

  • Karn, like the Boy Meets World cast, is amazed he’s still talking about his show 30 years later and is now working conventions and golf tournaments. “I don’t think I… that did not compute. You know, it was like—because we don’t have that in our life.” (63:37, Richard Karn)

• Jonathan Taylor Thomas Memories

  • Shared stories about JTT wanting matching minivans for first cars (65:04).

8. What’s Next for Richard Karn?

• Recent and Upcoming Projects (65:36)
  • Social media influencing (Natty Light, yard maintenance, “pocket hose” commercials).
  • Shooting a film in Michigan, playing a “shady” sheriff. (65:36)
  • Leads to a hilarious extended riff about what a “pocket hose” is, with Danielle thinking it’s a sex toy (66:09–68:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’ve worked with a monkey. I’ve worked with dogs. I’ve worked with Tim Allen.” (18:06, Richard Karn)

• “The audience knew who we were before we knew who we were.” (41:35, Richard Karn)

• “It was like—she was his equal. She wasn’t a victim to Tim. She was his equal. And that’s why it worked.” (37:21, Richard Karn)

• “You either have to be okay with this, or you’re going to be upset all the time.” (53:00, Richard Karn, on being recognized)

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Highlighted Timestamps

• 14:38 – Introduction of Richard Karn as guest
• 16:20 – Karn’s memories (or lack thereof) of his BMW appearance
• 24:25 – Karn’s origin story and path to Home Improvement
• 35:43 – Casting drama in the Home Improvement pilot
• 41:35 – Discussing early audience chemistry and “I don’t think so, Tim”
• 45:06 – Life changes with sitcom fame
• 52:31 – Will’s embarrassing celebrity encounter with Karn as a teen
• 56:54 – How Karn got and approached the Family Feud gig
• 63:37 – On conventions, lasting popularity, and nostalgia
• 65:36–68:06 – “Pocket hose” discussion and ensuing laughter

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Tone & Language

The tone is casual, nostalgic, and playful—a group of former TV kids swapping heartfelt stories with a charismatic pro. Richard Karn is candid and self-deprecating, the hosts are warm and eager to reminisce, and tangents about odd products (pocket hose!) veer into near slapstick territory. The conversation is peppered with sharp industry insights, genuine camaraderie, and lots of laughter.

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Final Thoughts

The episode is a must-listen for anyone nostalgic for the 90s, offering an affectionate behind-the-scenes look at two beloved sitcoms and the quirky, fortunate chain of events that can lead to iconic pop culture moments. Richard Karn emerges as both everyman and TV royalty—humble, grateful, and always ready with a great story (and a laugh about pocket hoses).

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For More:

• Follow Pod Meets World on Instagram: @podmeetsworldshow
• Email: podmeetsworldshowmail.com
• Merch: podmeetsworldshow.com

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Pod dismissed!

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay. So the day that I had to pick it, the day that we did our interview with the wonderful office ladies, I completely forgot that I was going to need to pick the book. And so right before we did the interview and I needed to say it, I like, googled best books of 20, 25 or something. And I read a list of books, saw the name of it, read the description of it, and was like, this sounds like something I would really like. I'm gonna pick it. And then we announced it, and so many people were like, this book sucks. Couldn't get through it. A bunch of comments saying, this book was. It's not. It's not what you think it's gonna be. It's not good. And it really scared me. Now I'm like, I. Every time I think of picking it up, I'm like, oh, no. Once I start, I have to commit to the whole thing. So. So now I've just been afraid to start it. And then there was a. I was like, do I. Do I just listen to those people and pick a new.

[Richard Karn]

No, we got to do it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Even if. Yeah, I guess.

[Richard Karn]

Even if we don't like it, then.

[Rider Strong]

We get to have a conversation about.

[Will Friedle]

Is it a detective story?

[Danielle Fishel]

I thought it was going to be a. Like a. Like a murder. Like a thriller. Like a murder mystery thriller. And I think that's still what it is, but I don't know. Some people just said it seemed it was very. What's the word they use to describe it? Yes. Something like that. Yeah. So anyway, I'm a little nervous. And then. Anyway, so now we could love it.

[Richard Karn]

We could love it.

[Will Friedle]

You never know. You never know. Sometimes you do, but you never know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Never know. All right, well, anyway, I have.

[Will Friedle]

Do we have a good six months before we do that episode?

[Rider Strong]

Let's just get a date and then.

[Richard Karn]

We'Ll all do it.

[Rider Strong]

Cause it'll be our homework.

[Will Friedle]

Okay. I'm not gonna be on an airplane where I don't like to fly. Reading something called Death takes me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

I'M not gonna do that.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'll read it next.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, does it make it better? Let's, you know. You know, our next book we're going to read. We're going to read alive the next time for when we. We start flying everywhere. I think it's a great idea. Who would you eat on this plane.

[Rider Strong]

And why, if so.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah. That's a positive, uplifting story.

[Will Friedle]

Most of them didn't survive.

[Richard Karn]

It's an accomplishment.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Rider Strong]

No.

[Will Friedle]

God.

[Richard Karn]

Yikes.

[Will Friedle]

It's called alive.

[Richard Karn]

They stayed alive.

[Will Friedle]

I remember. I remember when Ryder. We were shooting our video. Yeah. For at the end of. And we were interviewing everybody and one of the questions they asked was. We asked them is, if a plane went down, who would you eat first and why? On this. On the boy, Matt Lawrence said. I'll never forget Lawrence's answer. He said, I thought the whole point was you. You were supposed to flip them over so you didn't know who they were. You just grab a piece. I didn't remember that.

[Richard Karn]

Did we put that in the video? We did. I don't know why that sticks out. Because you turn them over so you.

[Will Friedle]

Know you're not supposed to know who you're eating.

[Rider Strong]

We had some great answers.

[Richard Karn]

People were hysterical.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, God. So funny.

[Richard Karn]

Y.

[Danielle Fishel]

We need to find some snippets from that and play em for people.

[Will Friedle]

I got em. I got em all. I'm high as a kite right now. Sorry. High as a kite right now.

[Danielle Fishel]

What is going on?

[Will Friedle]

I'm having the house painted and I don't know what they're doing, but it's all filtering into my little room and it's like I'm in the huffing bag itself. My fingers are tingling like my get outside. It's the best. It's the best.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pod meets world. I'm Danielle Fishel.

[Rider Strong]

I'm Rider Strong.

[Will Friedle]

And I'm Will Friedle.

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[Danielle Fishel]

When people are deciding who the face of 90s television was, an activity I'm sure many of our listeners find themselves engaged in at house parties, local concerts and HOA meetings. I'm sure the expected and most obvious names are thrown around. Jerry Seinfeld, George Clooney, Jennifer Aniston, the cat from Sabrina. But I would like to throw another name into the mix and it's none other than our guest this week, best known as the beloved sidekick Al Borland from the juggernaut known as Home Improvement. One of the most recognizable faces of the decade, the co host of Tool Time was the safety conscious straight man to the grunting machismo of Tim Taylor. And his contributions to the show made you feel as warm as the fun flannels he wore on every episode. And he also appeared on an episode of Boy Meets World. No doubt an unavoidable ask by the network to spike our ratings during sweeps, playing an animal control officer ready to contain little Corey, a pig at the center of the season three episode. This little piggy. Will he remember being in the episode or will he bleeth it? Your guess is as good as ours. He'd go on to host Family Feud, a gig at least two of us on this zoom would commit a felony to land and has popped up on everything from that 70s show and last Man Standing to Detroiters and the truly genius PEN15. But yes, he hammered his way into America's heart on Home Improvement, a show that once found itself atop the Nielsen ratings, clocking in over 30 million viewers per episode, a feat now impossible unless you're part of a football team attempting to win an important trophy. He was an integral part of one of the biggest sitcoms of the decade. And now he's an integral part of a popular niche rewatch podcast of this decade. Welcome to Pod Meets World. Richard Karn.

[Richard Karn]

Oh my gosh.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hi, Richard. Thank you so much for being here. Just like in 1995, you are bringing some much needed spring star power to our show. So thank you.

[Richard Karn]

1995, I can't even imagine, you know, and it's so funny because in 95, I don't think I had done very many other TV shows just home Improvement. Well, I'd done Home Improvement just the one show that everybody was watching, the.

[Will Friedle]

Biggest show on television, just that one.

[Richard Karn]

And I knew that. I knew how our set works, but I wasn't sure how another set would work. When I go over there. But you guys were so welcoming, so wonderful, and, you know, you were very young.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah, we were, we were all very young. I, in 95, I was 14.

[Richard Karn]

No way.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Rider Strong]

Writer would have been and I would have been for. He would have been 14. I would have been 15.

[Richard Karn]

That makes me about 18 then.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I think Will was also about 18.

[Will Friedle]

I was 18 or 19. I was the old guy at the time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow, that makes us feel good.

[Richard Karn]

Was a big year. There was a lot going on. I went back to my calendar, my old school calendar, where I wrote everything down on a.

[Danielle Fishel]

You still have it?

[Richard Karn]

I, I found it. I had to go looking for it and I found I had like, I don't know, eight, nine years of those different books for each year. And I, I, I'm amazed at the stuff I was doing, you know, this week, this, this week, that there were, there were a lot of things.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, knowing then how busy you were, do you remember your week on Boy Meets World?

[Richard Karn]

I remember meeting you guys. I vaguely remember the show. And to be honest with you, I, I haven't seen the show since.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah. And I wasn't going to watch it before this podcast because I want to be surprised too.

[Danielle Fishel]

You want to be surprised? Okay, great. Well, we're not gonna watch it today.

[Richard Karn]

Okay.

[Danielle Fishel]

So let me refresh your memory and all of our memories. As a reminder, it is season three called. Season three episode called this Little Piggy, where you play Victor, the animal control officer, concerned with the presence of a pig in the Matthews home.

[Will Friedle]

No, it's in, it's in apartment. Right, Turner's apartment.

[Rider Strong]

But the scene takes place in the Matthews living room.

[Will Friedle]

In the Matthews living room.

[Rider Strong]

So I don't know why.

[Richard Karn]

Who ratted you out? Who told you?

[Danielle Fishel]

Probably Topanga.

[Will Friedle]

Topanga. Topanga did.

[Danielle Fishel]

Me. I know she was. First of all, Topanga was the biggest animal lover. She's a vegetarian. So I know she was doing it because she thought the pig was somehow in eminent danger. Yes, because pigs don't belong in apartments or homes. But still, Sean loved, loved this pig. Would never have let anything happen to the pig. I really, I really disagreed with Topanga that week.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, I did too.

[Danielle Fishel]

We definitely. One thing we all remember about the week is that working with pigs is the worst.

[Rider Strong]

No one likes animals.

[Richard Karn]

I do, and I have, have since worked with another pig.

[Danielle Fishel]

Were they the little squeaky ones or are they the bigger ones?

[Richard Karn]

Worked with animals? With, with a little potbelly, you know, that was all over the place. And he was supposed to Be all over the place. So that was fun. I've worked with a monkey. I've worked with dogs. I've worked with Tim Allen. It's like.

[Rider Strong]

You guys, actually, you're on your show, you would do lots of set pieces, right? Like, there would always be some big physical stunt or like a machinery going craz.

[Richard Karn]

I mean, you guys were doing set. When we would go to what would be considered a working job site or something like that. It was actually the. The ABC buildings being built on the Disney lot. Okay, so you like the animation building, like the other buildings. These were, you know, before when we dropped the. The beam on the Nomad, you know, that was the foundation of all those buildings. Wow.

[Will Friedle]

You know what I remember? One of the things I remember most is I used to get my parking space, which I thought was the coolest thing in the world, was near Tim Allen's and his two or three. And every single day, there was like, three different cars. A different car, and always the coolest thing in the world and different every single time. And I would just be like, what?

[Richard Karn]

That. That's. That's what I want.

[Will Friedle]

I want that thing right there.

[Richard Karn]

Well, you know, every. Every car on Tool Time or on Home Improvement was one of Tim's cars.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. And it's now on Shifting Gears. I don't know if you've watched Shifting Gears.

[Richard Karn]

I did.

[Danielle Fishel]

Every single car. Is.

[Will Friedle]

Is one of his cars his.

[Richard Karn]

Well, he needs another revenue stream.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know, because he charges it to the production.

[Richard Karn]

Yes, he does.

[Rider Strong]

He really?

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, of course he does.

[Rider Strong]

That's his rental.

[Will Friedle]

That's brilliant. Oh, man.

[Danielle Fishel]

I directed an episode of Shifting Gears, and I bet that was fun.

[Richard Karn]

I bet that was a lot of fun.

[Danielle Fishel]

It was so much fun. But one of our guest star actors, everyone's told, like, these are real cars. There's, like, a big meeting before the day starts. These are real cars. They are actually from the year. They are Tim Allen's property. Please do not lean, do not scratch. Do not walk too close to. Now. You know, you're. You're. Some of the scenes are in a shop, and one of our. One of our actors leaned all of his body weight while he was doing stuff in the engine. And it. And yeah, there was a. There was a dent. Everyone's like, okay, we have to have a meeting. What are we gonna do? There's a dent. There's a dent in the car. And one of the guys who works for Tim, who deals with the cars, came over and looked at it and he was like, oh, this is Absolutely nothing. We'll be able to pop this out. It's gonna be about $75 to fix. And I was like, I'll cover it.

[Richard Karn]

Was that Brett that came over?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, it was Brad.

[Richard Karn]

He was, like, 75 years old and fully jacked.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, fully jacked. I know. He's, like, in incredible shape. So is Tim, though. Tim is like, I don't. It was incredible. I was like, wow.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

He's in such good shape.

[Richard Karn]

Well, we have to be, because we're older.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know we don't have the option anymore. I'm no longer 14. I don't know if you know this.

[Richard Karn]

But I'm also very old in my heart. You're still 14.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. We've talked a lot about the Disney lot and our little section of the stages, because we. In 92 or 93, 94. We're on the stage right next to you. We were on stage two on the Disney lot right next to Home Improvement. And we had a little area outside that. I'm wondering if you also remember. We call it the cage, but it's where we used to do our pe. Our recreation activity outside with all the kids.

[Richard Karn]

Well, yeah, I mean, we had stuff for our kids, but, you know, I was an adult, so I didn't really go over there and check out.

[Danielle Fishel]

You didn't play football with us, but do you remember seeing us running around in the cage or me coming by to visit your set to hang out with Jonathan?

[Richard Karn]

Absolutely. Absolutely, I do. Yes. That was very cool. I'll tell you what. There was one year where I was walking around the Disney lot. I stumbled upon this stage. And I walk in, and the stage has been dug out, like, three levels down.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, wow.

[Richard Karn]

And there was this huge, like, moon service with stalactites. It was the most amazing set. And I go in there and I go, what is this? It was the set for Armageddon. You know, when they go, they go, meteor.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Richard Karn]

And I go back and I go, tim, we gotta use this set. He goes, what are you talking about? Come on, come with me. We gotta go use this. And he goes over there. And we walk in. He goes, yes, we. Absolutely. So he goes to Bob Iger or Bob Eisner, you know.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, he's a Michael Eisner at the time.

[Richard Karn]

Probably it was Michael Eisner at the time. He goes, can we use this? And Michael Eisner's like, oh, Michael Mann's the director. I don't know. And so we had to go to the Director. And the director hemmed and hawed. And he wasn't, like, happy about this, but he goes, okay, you can use it, but you have to bank it for three months. And after the movie has aired, after the movie has come out, you can't show anything before that, Right. So they banked. We banked a scene where Tim goes next door to Wilson's house, and he goes, you know, Wilson, where are you? He goes, I'm down here, Tim. He's in his basement. You open the door to the basement, and here's this giant set. Oh, my gosh, that's awesome.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, I love it.

[Richard Karn]

And the irony, or the sad news, is that I didn't get to be in that scene. It was your idea.

[Will Friedle]

It was your idea.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, that was. That was grossly. You know, that was mean.

[Will Friedle]

That was mean.

[Richard Karn]

But we did get to use that set, and so I was glad that we did that. That's so cool.

[Danielle Fishel]

One of the ways we like to start some of our. Getting to know some of our guests is by asking about their origin story. I read in preparation for this meeting, I read on your Wikipedia page one of the most incredible stories about how you ended up becoming an actor. And I don't know if it's true, because my wikiped page used to say, I was a chef. And I've never. I can't. I could barely make chicken nuggets. So I know that they're not. It's not always correct. But is it true that you got a citation and that's what ended up leading to you becoming an actor? And if so, will you tell us the story?

[Richard Karn]

I'll tell you what. There. There are. And you must know this. There are certain things in your life where, when you get them, you can walk it back and you can go, you know, this led to this, which led to this, which led to that. And so when I started thinking about how. How home improvement came about, everything was linked primarily back to doing summer stock in Holland, Michigan, in, like, 1983.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, so how old were you in 83?

[Richard Karn]

Well, I had moved to New York in 1979.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, okay.

[Richard Karn]

And I was 23.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

So I was 25 or 6, something like that. And I was doing summer stock because that's what you do, you know, I did a lot of theater before doing TV and film or film or whatever like that. And that's where. That's why I went to New York instead of California. I'm from Seattle, grew up in Seattle. And I went through the training program a Professional actor training program at the University of Washington.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

And at the time, the University of Washington had. Was part of the League of Schools, and they had auditions for us in New York. That's why I ended up in New York.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay, so you were doing theater. So that's where. That's why you. You were. You were always an actor from. From the time of starting theater.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, yeah. And I went off to Holland, Michigan, to do this. Five shows, five plays for the season in rotating rep, and one of them was a. Was a play called oh, Gosh Strider. It was a play with music, and people played animals. And there you go, animals again. And I worked with this director who happened to be the. The director of theater at Evansville College in Indiana, and he had done this play earlier in the year, and he was trying to direct this play kind of like he had already done. And all of a sudden, I'm caught between. I don't know what he. Why would you want me to do that? It had nothing to do with my. You know, what I was thinking. And he's going, well, you know, we did this. And. Wait, you did this already? I go, yeah, we've. We. Well, I'm not gonna do what some other guy did. I mean, I feel like this is. This is where my trajectory is going and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we kind of, you know, we really butted heads a lot during rehearsal until opening night and then opening night. Everything worked great. You know, my stuff worked, his stuff worked, everything worked. And he was, like, really happy. And we became friends after that. And then a few years later, he calls me and goes, you know, there's a playwrights conference in New Harmony, Indiana, and we need actors to read the scripts while the. While the playwrights rewrite them, and dramaturgs help them rewrite them. Kind of like, you know, after your Monday table read, you go. Writers go back and they rewrite and puff up jokes or restructure the, you know, the A story, the B story, whatever. And he said, we can pay you a hundred dollars a week, but we'll put you up. We'll, you know, we'll feed you. We'll put you up. And. And I'm living in New York at the time, and I go, a hundred dollars a week, huh? Okay. Yes. You know, that was. That was my response at that point in my life was yes to everything. Because you don't know what. Yeah, you don't know what. So I go down there and I meet these guys, Matt Williams, David McFadzian. And Carmen Finestra. And they had just come off the first season of Roseanne, okay? And they were, they were fired. They were fired by Roseanne for telling her not to be mean to John Goodman. And she's going, well, this is what I do. This is my gig. I go, well, America loves John Goodman. They're not gonna like, you fired them. And then she took their advice. So I'm meeting these guys and I don't know how TV works or whatever, and I coerced them into writing a skit for the end of the two weeks of all these funny directors, writers, actors, and we do this amazing skit and we're up to like 2, 3 o' clock in the morning writing this stuff. And if I had any idea of what these guys had gone through and what they go through doing a half hour TV sitcom every week where they, you know, they're up to two and three o'clock in the morning. This is their vacation.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

And I'm making, you know, you're like.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is always fun.

[Richard Karn]

Isn't this fun?

[Will Friedle]

Let's do this.

[Richard Karn]

And we did. We had a great time. I stayed in touch with them. When I, when I finally moved to California a few years later, I called them up and they were doing a show called Carol & Co. With Carol Burnett.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

And they said, well, you know, there's. There might be something. And they. And a few weeks later, they call me and go, well, there's this little role we have. You know, Carolyn, Company had a group of actors, you know, an ensemble of actors. Richard Kind was one of them. They had like five or six ensembles, but this was like a smaller role that the ensemble didn't care about or whatever. So I went in and I did my few lines with Carol Burnett. And I'm going, wow, this is, this is the big time. This is pretty cool. And, you know, we did the curtain call at the end of the, the show on Friday night, and I'm holding Carol Burnett's hand. I go, wow, thank you, guys. Thank you. And. And then a year later, yes, I.

[Danielle Fishel]

Get a traffic citation driving around Los Angeles.

[Richard Karn]

I am doing a production of. And you know, I'm not in a theater, but I still don't like to say it. I'm doing the Scottish play, the Shakespeare Scottish play, which has a lot of, of bad juju.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

Associated with it. I mean, you can read books on people who have died, who have gotten terror, deathly sick, who have had accidents. There are stuff going on in that play because there apparently are real Witch incantations associated with that play, the Three. The Three Witches. Cool. So I've finished rehearsal, I'm driving home and I'm like, you know, I'm on side streets and I, you know, I know there's a stop sign, but, you know, my peripheral, I see there's nothing going on, it's a side street and I kind of roll through it and the next thing I know there's a cop by me and I go, oh, oh God, I'm doing this play. This is my bad luck.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, here it is.

[Richard Karn]

I've, you know, and I get a traffic ticket. And back then you couldn't do it online. There was no online to go to traffic school, which is an eight hour school.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep. All day.

[Richard Karn]

And I sat next to this woman who turned out to be an agent at the Gersh Agency. And we're talking, you know, we're talking about, oh, who we know, you know, Well, I did this thing with these guys, you know Matt Williams? Oh, yeah, we know Matt Williams. He's, in fact, he's, he's doing a new show right now. They're casting a new show called Home Improvement with this comic named Tim Allen. I go, well, I don't think so. I think they would have called me. Yeah, I'm talking to her. I'm not trying to get an agent without trying to get an agent. But anyway, I don't have an agent at this point. I'm doing a play. I'm just, you know, in la and I call up David. I go, david, I hear you guys are auditioning for this new show. He goes, rick, we, you're, you're. There's nothing for you in this show. We know you, you're too much like Tim Allen. You're too much like him. You're the same size, you're roughly the same age. You're just. We needed somebody, you know, a little different. And we've already cast Stephen Topolowski. You know Stephen Topolowski, the life insurance salesman?

[Rider Strong]

Yeah, sure.

[Richard Karn]

And so he goes, but anyway, you know, you don't know our casting director, you know, so come in and meet Deborah Borylski. And I go, great, I thank you, I would love that. And so they send me the scene which is, you know, the character of Glenn, Tim's assistant, Glenn, doing this thing with a, with a lathe. And I, and I ask a friend, you know, can you kind of help me work on this? I never really had done that before, worked on a, worked on an audition scene that intensely. And we worked it out. And I go, oh, you know what? I'm working with lathe. I think I'll make noises. You know, I'll go, you know. You know, when you're working with. When you're working with. Yeah, you know, I. I did all this kind of stuff, and I go in and there's Matt, David, Carmen. I know those guys. John Pasquin, the director, I'd been a reader for him for the arena stage 10 years earlier in New York. The only person in the room I didn't know was Deborah Pearlski. And I. You know, this is a scene they've seen a million times. It's already cast. They don't care, but they laugh. They. You know, they're. I'm doing this scene, they're laughing. I'm going, I'm doing my job. And. And then John goes, can you make the lathe sound like a question? And I go, yes, I can, because I have, you know, professional actor training. And so in my head, I'm going, okay, the lady's got a question. So I'm going, you know, when you work. When you work like that and they're like, falling on the ground, I have no idea. It wasn't that funny, but it was funny. But until later when, you know, I hear Tim and his grunts and his. And then he has the. Oh, yeah, the question. They were just, you know, playing with me. They were screwing around, but I did it. And they call me, like, three weeks later and go, Carmen actually calls me. And I. I don't know if you know Carmen Finestra. No, he's about five, one, five two, my height. Yeah, he's. He's. And funniest guy. I mean, he worked on the Cosby Show. He worked on with Steve Martin. He's worked all these shows. And he calls me. He goes, so, Rick, do you still have that beard? And I had grown a beard for the Scottish play. And I go, yeah. I go, well, it seems that Stephen is doing a play in New York and he can't do the pilot. And we were wondering if you could. Yes. I don't even let him get it out. I go, yes, I can do that. He goes, well, now, if the show gets picked up, we would still bring Stephen in. And I go, I don't care. I don't have a pilot on my resume. I've never done anything like that. I would love to do that. Thank you. And the corner where I got that traffic ticket is where that agent lived. And the woman who played Lady M, her husband was comedy liaison at abc.

[Danielle Fishel]

My God, there were all these little.

[Richard Karn]

Kind of These little satellites around this job that. And I'm doing the job, and we have 10 days rehearsal. And the whole time I'm going, God, this is so. This is. Oh, this is gonna be a great show. It hasn't aired. You know, the audience is laughing that it hasn't aired. But I'm going, oh, God, I wish I could be part of the. Okay. But anyway, I get to do this. And this is very cool. And I don't know if you knew this, but they changed the lead actress three days into rehearsal.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I did not know that. So it wasn't Patricia's.

[Richard Karn]

It was. And I'm. And I'm blanking on her name right now. She was the mother in Titanic.

[Danielle Fishel]

Frances Fisher.

[Richard Karn]

Francis Fisher. And that's why the boys are blonde, because Frances was a strawberry blonde.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. And so three days into rehearsal, or three days before shooting.

[Rider Strong]

So a week into rehearsal, Three days into rehearsal.

[Richard Karn]

We still had seven more days. And we have this little audience. They bring in an audience of, like, I don't know, 15 people to watch a run through. And the next day, Francis is gone. And this freaks me out as an actor. I'm going, are we that disposable?

[Danielle Fishel]

That disposable?

[Richard Karn]

And I go up to Carmen. I go, carmen, what just happened? What just happened? And I felt like I could do that because I'm gonna be gone in a week. Doesn't matter. I go, carmen, you just fired. She's really good. He goes, I know she's good, but she wasn't getting the right laugh. I go, but she's an actress. She can get that laugh. You just have to tell her. But no, no, it's something deeper than that. There's. There's a scene. There's this scene where Tim is, you know, the dishwasher. That was the pilot. The dishwasher isn't cleaning well enough. And so he soups up the dishwasher. And so when Francis goes, you know, I'm going out to the store. Don't touch the dishwasher. And there was a laugh, but it was like. It was a laugh. Like, oh, yeah, he better not touch the dishwasher, Right? And Carmen goes, it wasn't the right kind of laugh. And I go, really? You know this? And he goes, yes, I know this. And they bring Pat in, and when she does that line with the next audience we have, don't touch the dishwasher. The audience goes, yes, he's gonna do that. I Thought, this is gonna be so great. It was. It was like, she was his equal. She wasn't a victim to Tim. She was his equal. And that's why it worked.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

But, you know, as a young actor, I. I couldn't have seen that. I didn't know what that meant. Right. You know, but they. They had. You know, they had time in this business to realize those kind of things.

[Danielle Fishel]

But those are the moments that I think of when I think of the. The biggest acting lessons of my career have all been watching someone else go through something, like a director working with another actor and being like, oh, look at the way they're doing that and that. They're giving that note and then watching the tweaks they make, and then you're able to.

[Richard Karn]

Without giving them a line reading.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. It's a delicate balance.

[Richard Karn]

It's a delicate balance.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, it is. So wait, then how long. So you finished the pilot?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

You know, it's gonna be amazing.

[Richard Karn]

Oh, it's amazing. It's hysterically amazing.

[Will Friedle]

But you also are told you're not gonna be part of the show moving forward.

[Danielle Fishel]

How do you get it? Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

When do you find out?

[Richard Karn]

I go back, you know, I'm. I'm the apartment manager at my building, oddly enough, because I get free rent.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Great.

[Richard Karn]

But. But, you know, I don't think about this just 20 years down the line, all of a sudden, I think about. I go, huh, I'm getting paid $900 a month.

[Will Friedle]

Yup.

[Richard Karn]

To be the apartment manager. Go, well, that was a pretty good deal for them.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. You're retroactively pissed.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah. You know, I go back to my job and my auditions and this and that, and I go, God, you know, and now it's on my resume. I actually, I call up the agent. I go, hey, hey. I did the pilot for Home Improvement. Thank you very much for telling me about that. And do you think you'd like to work with me? And go, well, you know, we have a lot of people like you. We have a lot of your type, and I don't think it's, you know, it's not you, it's us.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right. It's not you.

[Richard Karn]

It's us. It's not you. It's us. We have a lot like you. And I go, okay, all right, all right. But like a month later or so, this, you know, we did. We rehearsed this in April, and I think they started up the show sometime in July, late July, late mid July, and I get another call and they go, Rick. Apparently, Stephen took another job, and he can't do maybe the first two or three episodes. And I go, great. I'm there. No problem. I am so there. And I show up and I'm a guest star. I'm not, you know, I'm just a guest star. And they. Everything is kind of, like, written down. There's no, you know, there's no exploratory part of who this. Who this guy is, who this. Because I'm not going to be there for very long. So all of my early first few episodes was. Was really just kind of, you know, listening, body language, reacting to Tim not doing a lot, but the audience was getting it. The audience was. Was laughing at our. Our kind of subliminal relationship going on there. And. And there came a point, third episode maybe, or something like that, where Tim had this joke. And I think it was something like, hey, Al, you think they call it molding because it's been in the refrigerator too long. I'm just there to let Tim have that laugh. So I let the audience laugh. I don't do anything. I just relax my face. I don't do anything. And then I'm about to say my line, my retort line, which was nothing really. And before I say that, the audience laughs again. And I go, oh, no, I wasn't milking that. I didn't mean to milk that. But that's a nice laugh. That's a relationships laugh. And then I went, I don't think so, Tim. And that got a big laugh. And all day long, the writers would walk by me and go, you did yourself a favor there, like three lines. And I go, yeah, thank you. Thank you. That felt good, you know, and the audience hasn't seen the show yet. It hasn't aired. So all of these things are happening because it's funny. And that's. The audience knew who we were before we knew who we were. And the writers were watching that, watching them watch us, and all of a sudden, it just clicked for them. They went, you know what? This is working. Yeah, this is working. We do. You know, I'm sorry, Stephen, but we. We found this. And. And, you know, later on, when I cognizantly think back on. On, you know, the early stuff was like, I got to help create the character without having to be placed into a character that was already written.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

So they were watching the audience watch us. They were watching me. I was doing stuff. I did what they did. They did. You know, they played off mine, what I was doing. And, you know, it was like, it was the best of all worlds. It's the best way to do it. I mean, that's that. Yeah.

[Rider Strong]

Workshopping, basically. Right.

[Richard Karn]

Like workshopping a character. I was workshopped.

[Rider Strong]

That's so great.

[Danielle Fishel]

So fun. And all the pressure was off because you didn't think you had the job. You thought, there's no. There's no chance. This is mine. It's already.

[Richard Karn]

I didn't have to go through the gauntlet of a network. Oh, yeah. I didn't have to go through the network auditions where they look at you and go, oh, he's not tall. I don't know his face doesn't work with the kid. Whatever it is that. That, you know, the network would say, I didn't have to do any of that. I was just. I was already there. That's great.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wow. Unbelievable. And, of course, Steven Toblewski has gone on to also have an incredible career.

[Richard Karn]

He never stopped working.

[Danielle Fishel]

Never, ever.

[Richard Karn]

I ran into him at Arch Deli.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you?

[Richard Karn]

I did. And I went up to him and I go, excuse me. And I didn't know what to say, Mr. Toplowski. I said. I just said, excuse me. And he looks up and he goes, oh, my God. Oh, I should have taken that fricking job. I can't believe I didn't take that job. And I. I thank you for that. I really do. Thank you for that.

[Danielle Fishel]

So great. I worked with him on Lopez vs Lopez. I got to direct him on that show. And, man, is he ever just the nicest, funniest.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, he's really funny. He's really funny.

[Richard Karn]

Well, he would have been funny. It would have been a very different show.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally different.

[Will Friedle]

Way different. Way different.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know, everything worked out the way it was supposed to.

[Richard Karn]

Yes. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So the show remained in the Nielsen top 10 for six straight years, and in its third season, it was the number one show in America, averaging 34.1 million viewers. I mean, a number that's truly laughable now, considering you're lucky to get, you know, 3 million.

[Richard Karn]

You know, we were up against Seinfeld in the first season.

[Will Friedle]

Really?

[Richard Karn]

They moved Seinfeld. They moved them to Thursday night and created Must See Thursday Night tv. Yeah, right, right. We stayed on Tuesdays or Wednesdays whenever we were.

[Will Friedle]

Well, yeah, you owned that night. I mean, that was. That was home improvement night. Yeah, definitely.

[Richard Karn]

But later, they put Frazier up against us.

[Will Friedle]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

You know, I. Why they would do that, I don't know. It's just.

[Danielle Fishel]

They make. They make. When networks make weird decisions sometimes.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

So how does life Change for you then in that after that first season of Home Improvement are you just recognized everywhere you go? How does life change?

[Richard Karn]

It? It's like a snowball. It just gets bigger and, and, and bigger. Well, like I said, I was an apartment manager and into, into, you know, the show has aired and I get a phone call one night and then, you know, our kitchen sink is stopped up. Can you come take a look at it? And I go down there, there's like 15 people in, in their apartment and going, you see Al Borland's our apartment manager. And I just looked at it and I went, oh my God, I don't need this job anymore.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Right.

[Will Friedle]

I can get another apartment.

[Danielle Fishel]

I can give up this $900 a month.

[Richard Karn]

Yes. Yeah, I can pay for rent now. And my son was born the first season. Cooper was born in March of our first season.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, and that was, what year was the first season? Was it 90?

[Richard Karn]

Well, we did the pilot in 91, but it was 91. 92 season it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Okay, gotcha.

[Danielle Fishel]

And so March of 92, your son's.

[Richard Karn]

March of 92. Cooper marched fourth on March 4th.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

We all have that piece. You know the one, the thing that's so you. You've basically become known for it.

[Will Friedle]

And if you don't have yours yet, you'll find it on ebay.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

I'm talking that mew mew off the Runway. Red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona top.

[Will Friedle]

With the cowboy on it, or that.

[Rider Strong]

Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway.

[Will Friedle]

All these finds are on ebay and.

[Danielle Fishel]

They even offer millions of main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee.

[Rider Strong]

Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion.

[Will Friedle]

EBay things people love.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Will Friedle]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

So you might stumble a bit while saying it, but paying with it will make you stumble upon so much more. Shopping, dining, cooking, gardening. You get the idea.

[Will Friedle]

Let's say it together.

[Danielle Fishel]

The Active cash credit card from Wells.

[Rider Strong]

Fargo earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Danielle Fishel]

You know what? It does have a ring to it. It. No, seriously, try saying it out loud. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo.

[Will Friedle]

Ooh, that sounds nice.

[Rider Strong]

Learn more@wells fargo.com Active cash terms apply.

[Will Friedle]

So I have a, I have a quick story for you. It's, I, I, I don't know if you're, if you have any of these in your life, but there are moments in your life that stick with you because when you think about them, you get, get embarrassed all over again.

[Richard Karn]

Yes. Your face does stuff, doesn't it?

[Will Friedle]

Yes.

[Richard Karn]

You go, oh my God, I hope no one's looking at me.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah. So you, you are one of mine.

[Richard Karn]

I am.

[Will Friedle]

You are so the first. So as you remember abc, the coolest things is they would have the opening party every year and they would like send us all their, the party be some cool place. And the first year I think I went, it was at the La Brea Tar Pits and it was like the.

[Richard Karn]

Coolest thing in the world.

[Will Friedle]

And I was new to Hollywood. I just got in here, we just got in Boy Meets World. It hadn't aired yet. It was just shooting. I was a huge Home Improvement fan and I, at one point I'm talking to somebody and I look over and you're standing there. And so I'm 17, I think, at the time, and I just stare at you in such a creepy way and for so long that eventually you look at me and walk over and extend your hand to introduce yourself. Because I was just the creepy kid staring at you.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

And to this day, every time I think about it, I still get retroactively embarrassed for myself and how nice you were to walk over. It was a good 15, 20ft of me just staring. And it was, hey, kid, stop staring to where you left your conversation to walk over, to shake my hand in such a nice way. But I know the subject subtext was if I don't do this, this creep is going to follow me home.

[Richard Karn]

Yes. So, oh my God. Still embarrassed.

[Will Friedle]

But thank you for taking the time to, to at least come over and shake a 17 year old kid's hand who was wide eyed and just staring at you from across the room. So I appreciate it.

[Richard Karn]

And still, you guys know the process of, of accumulating celebrity ness or recognizability. And you know, I realized early on that, you know, you either have to be okay with this or you're going to be upset all the time. Yes, yes. You know, and I'm, I don't want to be upset all the time.

[Danielle Fishel]

Totally.

[Richard Karn]

You know, I'm watching other people, you know, have fights or you know, punch out a cameraman or something like that. I go, wow, you know, just, just own up, Just, you know, be nice.

[Will Friedle]

Go do something else. If this, if you're gonna be, if you're gonna be mean to your own fans, go pick another job. Go do something.

[Richard Karn]

I did theater, you know, and I'd go off to Actors Theater, Louisville or Players Theater in Columbus, where people would come up to me and they say, oh, we saw the play last week, it was really fun, you know, and there'd be like maybe one, two people. And then it just started to accumulate more and more and I, and at first I was a little embarrassed about it. By it, I mean, I'm not worthy. I don't, you know, I'm, I'm in my little bubble. My little, you know, we're on the show and we rehearse and we're doing our job and, and people are all of a sudden watching us with their families and it's becoming more than just us. It's becoming, it's becoming their, you know, their childhood, their memory of a simpler time where they've sat with their grandparents or their parents or brothers and sisters. And that's what it is now. It's not me, it's their memory of our show.

[Rider Strong]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. In the off season, would you ever shave just to be able to not be as recognizable?

[Richard Karn]

I didn't, no. And this is why was, because I was getting commercials and I was like, of the mind. Cooper's just born. College.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

I don't know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Long the strike while the iron is.

[Richard Karn]

I'm gonna do these commercials and I go, and if I do these commerc. You know, most major motion pictures might be out of the. I'm okay with that. I, you know, I make this decision like I'm okay without having to be Tom Cruise. Right. Like I would be Tom Cruise. But still, you know, I made this decision and I had like Major companies. I. You know, I represented a garage door company. I represented orchard supplies. Orchard hardware.

[Will Friedle]

That was big.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and they needed me to look like me. Now, on. On the business side of the. Of the thing, Disney equated that with them giving me a raise. Like, we don't need to give you a raise because we're letting you do commercials.

[Will Friedle]

Y.

[Richard Karn]

That's so Disney. Yep. Oh, my God. I know. I mean, I eventually. I eventually got a raise, and, you know, I didn't get my likeness back in a plaid shirt till the final season. They only allowed.

[Danielle Fishel]

You weren't allowed to wear a plaid shirt?

[Richard Karn]

Well, I had to get permission. Wow.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

That's the life.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. I still don't have my likeness, so I.

[Will Friedle]

None of us do.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know.

[Will Friedle]

You sign it away in perfect. That's what we get.

[Richard Karn]

Imperpituity means. Are you guys worried about AI Concern? Can they. Can they just do that, or do you have some. Some, you know, authority over that?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, you're probably right. I. I think. I think my actual contact, my contract. I did get that. I got a. I got my original contract, and it says that they own my likeness in. On any planet. In any universe.

[Will Friedle]

Any universe. Yeah, Literally.

[Richard Karn]

Beyond. Yeah.

[Will Friedle]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

You're good with those combats. Tied it all together.

[Richard Karn]

Well, you know, I was a talk show, or, I mean, a game show.

[Danielle Fishel]

Host, so Will and I would commit a felony to have had your job. We love that.

[Will Friedle]

Oh, man. Two seconds. I. Danielle, and I have to host some sort of a game show. Absolutely.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, my gosh. What is that experience? Like?

[Richard Karn]

You know, I kind of turned it down at first.

[Danielle Fishel]

Why?

[Richard Karn]

Because it was so in left field. It was like, I.

[Rider Strong]

A game show.

[Richard Karn]

I'm an actor.

[Danielle Fishel]

Family Feud.

[Richard Karn]

I know, I know. But this is the thing. I had done a pilot of To Tell the Truth as one of the panelists, you know, with Paula Stone and me and two other. You know, I can't think of their names, but. And John o' Hurley was the host they were re. Bringing out to tell the truth. And I did that. And the pilot. Pilot got picked up, the show got picked up, and they asked me if I'd like to continue with it. I went, no, I don't think I want to do a game show. And then a year later, they call me and said, would you like to host Family Feud? And I go, wow, really? Gosh. And I'm like, I'm doing something for Orchard Hardware up near San Francisco somewhere. Yeah, up there. And I'M in a bar, and I turn to this person next to me at the bar, and I go, hey, how you doing? They go, oh, my God, you're Richard Karn. I go, yeah, yeah. What would you think if I did a game show? And they went, well, nah, you don't want to do that. You know, just some random person, right? They go, yeah, you're right.

[Danielle Fishel]

I don't want to do that.

[Will Friedle]

You're right.

[Richard Karn]

I don't. You know, and I go back and I say, no, I don't think. And then it's like they all. It's not like they ganged up on me, but they all went, well, you know, you've been doing family tv. You did family movies. This is just another family venue you can do, which might be a lot of fun. And I'm. And I'm thinking, yeah, okay, all right, I'm in. I'm in. I'm good.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I'll do it.

[Richard Karn]

You know, I'll do it. And, you know, if I decide to do it, I'm doing it.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm committing.

[Richard Karn]

I'm committing. And so in the other side of my brain, I'm thinking, okay, this is me. I got to be funny. I gotta come up with stuff. And they had writers. They had a writer, you know, to come up with things. It doesn't work for that show because everything happens in the moment. Yeah, you can't, you know, you can't pre decide what, you know, you can write a joke about that question, but it might not have anything to do with their answer.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, it's. What's it called? Crowd work. It's crowd work, basically. With the people directly in front of you.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you just have to go, okay, I can't. These jokes aren't working for me. I'm just gonna, you know, I'll. I'll try and be funny. If I'm not, we'll just play the game, you know, so. So it was like stand up with a safety net. If I couldn't think of something, we just play the game.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, right.

[Richard Karn]

You know, but there was always something, and it happened in real time, so I could never remember it because my mind is working in real time. So I, you know, I would clock that something was funny at the end of the show. I could go, there was something funny. I don't remember what it was. And they go, oh, it was. You know, so I never had a firm grasp on all the funny little things that happened until I made them go back. And, you know, I said, you guys should do bloopers or something, you know? You know, and come up with the funny stuff. So that's.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did you get, did you get to have any hand in the editing? Because sometimes I think about, like, if you're making like when you're, it's like improv and stand up comedy mixed with also hosting job. And sometimes when you're just talking off the cuff like that, did you have any say? And like, you know what? I may have said that, but. Oh, you didn't have any say in it.

[Richard Karn]

But, you know, I, I had replaced Louie Anderson.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

And Louis is a very, very funny guy, but he's also a very large guy. He couldn't move. I mean, that's why he stayed at the podium so much. He couldn't get around. And all of his comedy took time. And so a lot of it got edited out. And I realized that we don't have a lot of time. We have three minutes less than network because we were already syndicated. So instead of 22 minutes, we had 19. So all of what I was trying to do was speed up the game part or the stuff so that I would have time. Like it looked like I had time to be, you know, conversationally and off the cuff and this and that. You know, I kind of worked on that in a, in a weird kind of a way, but I didn't get to help edit or that was, that was a whole nother thing. And, you know, bravo to you for, you know, becoming a director because that much authority was just too much of a weight on my, on my mind. That's why I never, you know, really truly did that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, the good, the good news is, at least in sitcom, although you are the leader on the set, ultimately it's not the director's medium. I'm, I'm making the showrunners dreams come true and I'm working with the actors to make that happen. And so unlike on a movie set where it's just all in your hands, in your vision, there's a, there's a nice happy medium where I still have to answer to somebody else else on a, on a sitcom set. Are you.

[Richard Karn]

But I noticed that John Pasquin was a step above that. I mean, he had, he had a lot more pull in how things got edited and stuff like that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pasquin is amazing. I was interviewed by him in order to get the job over at Shifting Gears, and he came by and would watch me work and ask me questions about why I was doing things the way I was doing them. And he, he Gave me input. He made my episode better. Yeah. Pasquin is so cool. Phenomenal. I learned.

[Richard Karn]

Well, you know, Jonathan is trying to do that, too.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. Jonathan came to set with me when I directed my episode of Shifting Gears. And he absolutely would want me to tell you, hello, I'm still very close to Jonathan. I don't know when the last time was you saw or spoke to him, but we're still very good friends. Yeah, yeah. You guys need to have a reunion. When was the last time you saw or spoke to Tim?

[Richard Karn]

Well, haven't you seen the Internet? CBS is offering us a billion dollars.

[Danielle Fishel]

What?

[Richard Karn]

What? Oh, yeah, I've not heard this. Oh, it's clickbait. It's. It's totally clickbait.

[Will Friedle]

Nice.

[Richard Karn]

You know, it's like, really? A billion dollars.

[Will Friedle]

We're not familiar with the clickbait articles. We don't know what to.

[Richard Karn]

We'll go on, go on to Facebook or whatever and say, CBS, home improvement, $1 billion. And it'll come out.

[Danielle Fishel]

And it'll come out.

[Richard Karn]

Love it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, one other thing I wanted to talk to you about. We had Debbie Dunning on the show recently, and I know you two are doing some conventions together and golf tournaments together with new fans all around the world. Did you ever think you would still be talking about home improvement 30 years later? The same way we are still talking about boy meets world 30 years later?

[Richard Karn]

I don't think I. That did not compute. You know, it was like. Because we don't have that in our life. We don't, you know, now that we're. Now that I'm older, I can look back and go, oh, yeah, okay, I can see how all that. But you know, trying to project that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[Richard Karn]

Thirty years, people, you know, we, we. I started out without social media, without the Internet, and then it happened after Home Improvement.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right.

[Richard Karn]

So all of these actors from. Okay, we'll say 2005 on, on all these new shows have the benefit of our experience because we'll throw it up there online and go, you know, this is how I felt. This is what happened. And they can learn from that. We had nothing to learn from except, you know, maybe some articles in Pop Teen magazine or whatever, but I didn't read those. And so I didn't really have a, you know, context for what this was going to be.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, well, I can tell you in Teen Beat, all they really talked about was our favorite pizza topics, toppings. It wasn't, it wasn't some real, you.

[Will Friedle]

Know, hard hitting journalism. Hard hitting journalism.

[Richard Karn]

So, you know, did you read any of Jonathan's? Because he was like a 50 year old man in a 12 year old body. He might have thrown some of that stuff in there.

[Danielle Fishel]

I know. Jonathan wanted us to get matching minivans as our first cars.

[Richard Karn]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

I was like, jonathan, no, I do not want a minivan, let alone one.

[Will Friedle]

That matches a friend of mine. My God.

[Danielle Fishel]

He got. We did. I got a four Runner and he got the total Toyota Land Cruiser. So we did get mad. They were, they were like, you know, his and hers.

[Will Friedle]

Close enough. Not, not bashing minivans, by the way. You know, you know, my loves a minivan. I love minivan.

[Danielle Fishel]

He keeps telling me that he wants me to get a minivan.

[Richard Karn]

Well, you know, Scooby Doo had the Mystery Machine.

[Will Friedle]

He did.

[Danielle Fishel]

Exactly. Richard, where can people see you now? What are you working on? What do people. What do you want people to know? Where can. Where can we send people who want to catch. Okay.

[Richard Karn]

I've become a. An influencer for Natty Light. I'm doing stuff for Do My Own, which is yard maintenance. I'm doing the pocket hose. I'm doing a little movie in Michigan in September where I play a sheriff that's kind of on the shady side, you know, I don't know, I just, I show up and do stuff. But you know, what's a pocket hose?

[Will Friedle]

Pocket hose.

[Danielle Fishel]

Pocket hose.

[Richard Karn]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Fishel]

Wait, what?

[Richard Karn]

A totally different podcast.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Will Friedle]

It's a tiny prostitute you carry around. How do you not know this in your pocket?

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys are saying pocket hose. Like, that's much more clear. What is a pocket?

[Will Friedle]

It's a small hose that you get.

[Richard Karn]

That hose that, that expands when you put water through it. Yes.

[Will Friedle]

It's tiny and so it can fit in your pocket. It's a pocket hose.

[Danielle Fishel]

Why does anybody have hose in their pocket?

[Richard Karn]

Well, now you're, you know now because you've talked about it around your phone. It's going to cut. It's going to pop up in all your. I know.

[Danielle Fishel]

I'm going to go ahead.

[Will Friedle]

You're going have tiny little prostitutes come into your house?

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, well, listen, I have to go. I have to go be an important actor right now. I got to get voiceovers. I hate to cut this short.

[Danielle Fishel]

Thank you so much for being here with us. It's always a joy to see you. So much fun to talk about. You have an incredible career, an incredible story. Thank you for being with us.

[Richard Karn]

Well, call me back and we can finish the conversation at some other point.

[Danielle Fishel]

I would love that. Thank you so much.

[Richard Karn]

Thank you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Have a great day.

[Richard Karn]

Take care. Bye.

[Danielle Fishel]

You guys said pocket hose.

[Will Friedle]

It's a pocket hose.

[Richard Karn]

You gotta know is a pocket ho.

[Will Friedle]

You just saw these tiny little prostitutes.

[Danielle Fishel]

I couldn't listen to anything he was saying after it. I was like, what's a pocket hoe?

[Richard Karn]

I mean, it actually just sounds like.

[Rider Strong]

The name for a great sex toy.

[Richard Karn]

Right?

[Will Friedle]

Like a pocket hose.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah, a pocket hoe. Whenever you, you know.

[Danielle Fishel]

Why would you need a hose in your pocket?

[Will Friedle]

No, it's, it's just, it's, it comes in a little like it. The entire hose.

[Danielle Fishel]

Again, what is the what. How does this benefit me? Why can't a hose be normal sized?

[Will Friedle]

Because then it takes up a ton of space, whereas this one takes up this amount of space and you hit the water and then it inflates to like full size.

[Danielle Fishel]

And then like when you put water.

[Will Friedle]

In a regular sized prostitute and it gets to be a big size prostitute. Like that same thing. Exactly, exactly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Okay.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram Pod meets World show. You can send us your emails. Podmeatsworldshowmail.com and we've got merch.

[Will Friedle]

Well, it's gotta be pocket hose.

[Richard Karn]

I mean, how can it not be.

[Will Friedle]

You know, little prostitutes from all around the world. Pocket hose, merch. Danielle still cannot wrap her head around a tiny little prostitute just hanging out, just sitting there.

[Richard Karn]

Yeah.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh. Podmeatsworldshow.com Writer, send us out.

[Richard Karn]

We love you all.

[Rider Strong]

Pod dismissed. Podmeet's World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fishel, Wilfred L And Ryder star executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Sugbash, producer Mattie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superban Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram odmeatsworld show or email us at podmeatsworldshowmail.com.

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

You know, I never realized how much better I treat my dog than myself.

[Richard Karn]

Really?

[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Ingredients I can pronounce.

[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Rider Strong]

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[Danielle Fishel]

Please welcome aboard the Johnson family.

[Richard Karn]

The whole fam's here for the Disney cruise. So you know we came to play.

[Will Friedle]

And listen, the adults are gonna have a ball.

[Richard Karn]

First we're chilling in the infinity pool, on to massages at Sense's spa, then gliding into Star Wars Hyperspace Lounge for a toast. We're even gonna kick back with Mickey on Disney's private island. That's how we get down. Cause Disney Cruise Line is where we came to play.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is an Iheart podcast.