The Red Weather | E7 | “lost cause”

Summary

Pod Meets World: The Red Weather | E7 | “lost cause”

Original Air Date: March 15, 2026
Hosted by: Ryder Strong
Guest: Lainey Trainor
Podcast Theme:
A serialized investigation and personal memoir, blending true crime with coming-of-age reflections, as Rider Strong (in character) seeks to unravel the disappearance of Anna Trainor (1995), the subsequent unraveling of her sister Willow, and his own complicated relationship history entwined with theirs.

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Episode Overview

This episode, titled “lost cause,” plunges deeper into the mysteries surrounding Anna Trainor’s disappearance, her sister Willow’s troubled life, and the unresolved trauma permeating their family. Ryder travels to Colorado to visit Lainey Trainor (Anna and Willow’s mother), hoping she’ll shine a light on Anna’s case, only to find that family secrets—about addiction, assault, loss, and forbidden relationships—run even deeper than he expected. The narrative builds toward connecting the dots between Anna’s stalker, Willow’s “Mr. Wrong,” and the potential involvement of an influential (and possibly predatory) teacher.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Road Trip to Colorado and Revisiting the Past

• [03:26] Ryder recounts reconnecting with Lainey after decades of estrangement, prompted by a voicemail:
  • “Writer. It’s Lainy Trainor. I don’t know. It’s been years. Decades. I’m in Colorado. Okay, call me back, buddy.”
• He sets the scene for a tense reunion—Lainey had once sent him a raging email: “RYDER, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER.”

2. Willow’s Downward Spiral

• [04:24] Ryder and friends reminisce on Willow’s self-destructive years following Anna’s disappearance:
  • Drugs, alcohol, dropping out, and discovering raves.
  • Reference to Willow living in the abandoned “Hess Building.”
• [08:31] Books as tokens of friendship and love—Ryder describes the group’s practice of passing annotated copies of classics, highlighting the intimacy of shared intellectual/creative lives.

3. The Willow Road Trip & “Mr. Wrong”

• [13:41] The truth about the infamous road trip:
  • Willow called Ryder to pick her up instead of going to “camp”—but it was actually supposed to be rehab.
  • Lainey reveals: “It was rehab, Ryder…We found her…she had bottles, she had all these pills…”

    [13:41] Lainey Trainor: “It was rehab, Ryder.”

  • As the trip progresses, Willow reveals she is pregnant—with “Mr. Wrong’s” baby.
  • Tension with Lainey runs high:

    [15:13] Lainey Trainor: “For three weeks, I didn’t know where she was…My moonbeam. I thought I had lost her. It was Anna all over again. And she never got over that, Ryder.”

4. Haunted by the Past: Lainey’s Trauma

• [24:49] Lainey reveals childhood trauma—a rape at 14 by her father’s best friend and the deep mistrust of patriarchal authority it created.

  [25:07] Lainey Trainor: “I was raped when I was 14…by my dad’s best friend, Cooper Davis.”

• Her determination to protect her daughters shaped the “tender hearts”—a communal, counterculture parenting experiment.

• The pressures and failures of living “off-grid” as her daughters craved “normal” teenage lives.

5. Anna’s Last Days, Notes, and the Stalker

• [26:42] Lainey accuses the broader world of corrupting Anna, and hints at a stalker who “wore her down.”
  • Anna’s relationships are characterized as secretive, with a “boyfriend who thinks he owns her and some other fucking guy.”
  • The stalker becomes not just a footnote, but a pivotal potential suspect.
• The shift from Anna being bothered by this person—to dating him.

6. Echoes, Patterns, and Theories

• [32:37] Ryder discovers eerie similarities in handwriting and book inscriptions between Willow and Anna—suggesting a shared (older) lover/mentor (“Mr. Wrong”), who was likely a teacher.

  • The recurring phrase “lost cause” is found in margins, and links to “Mr. Wrong.”

• [39:02] Ryder pieces together a disturbing pattern:

  1. Anna’s entanglement with an older man (possibly her teacher, possibly married) who may also have preyed upon Willow years later.
  2. “Operation Van Gogh” – Anna’s secret coded plan to disappear, likely with her stalker/lover.
  3. Parallels between Anna and Willow’s relationships and trauma.

• [42:00+] The teacher “Jacob Wyman” emerges as a possible suspect:

  • Known for being “one of the kids,” taking students on trips, pushing boundary-pushing books (“Damage” by Josephine Hart—a novel about a forbidden obsessive affair between an older man and a young woman named Anna).
  • Evidence and theory now point toward a single, adult male predating both sisters over years.

7. Climax and Fallout

• [37:21] A devastating emotional blow: Lainey never knew that Willow was pregnant or had an abortion—Ryder’s inadvertent revelation sends her into a tailspin and ends their conversation abruptly.
  • “She asked me to leave. Oh my God. It was awful.”
• [44:19] Ryder decides he must access the copy of “Damage” found in the evidence locker, believing it may be critical.
• The episode ends with a cliffhanger:
  • Ryder’s brother calls, reporting police at their family home with a search warrant—“they’re looking for guns.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [10:24] Lainey Trainor: “You look like a middle-aged Ryder.”

  • Light moment expressing the passage of time and nostalgia.

• [13:41] Lainey Trainor: “It was rehab, Ryder.”

  • The stark truth about Willow’s “camp”; a pivot in the emotional intensity.

• [15:13] Lainey Trainor (tearfully): “For three weeks, I didn’t know where she was. My moonbeam. I thought I had lost her. It was Anna all over again. And she never got over that, Ryder…That’s a wound that did not heal.”

• [25:07] Lainey Trainor: “I was raped when I was 14...by my dad’s best friend.”

  • This raw admission underscores generational trauma and propels Lainey’s obsessive protectiveness.

• [27:44] Lainey Trainor: “They’re pulling bullets out of trees, chasing parking tickets, going after Elric. They destroyed that man…You lose your daughter, you want to do the work, well then I’m a crazy lady, right?”

• [32:37] Ryder Strong: “There was a note in the margin of one page. Lost cause. Mr. Wrong…Willow gave me a book and it was from the guy that she was seeing in 98, the guy she called Mr. Wrong.”

• [39:52] Lainey Trainor (quoting): “Van Gogh suffered from severe emotional and psychological problems and died…at 37.”

  • Ryder conjectures: the “lover” was 37—potentially a married teacher (possibly Jacob Wyman).

• [43:13] Ryder Strong: “Damage by Josephine Hart is a psychological thriller…whose life spirals when he becomes obsessively and destructively involved with his son’s fiancée, Anna. Are you kidding me? The character’s name is Anna. Forbidden desire, secret affair, an older man and younger woman.”

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Important Timestamps

• [03:33] – Ryder reconnects with Lainey after years; his status as a pariah in her eyes.
• [10:24] – Ryder arrives at Lainey’s house in Colorado; their porch conversation begins.
• [13:41] – Lainey uncovers the reality: Willow’s trip was to avoid going to rehab, not summer camp.
• [15:13] – Willow’s hidden pregnancy and abortion come to light.
• [24:49] – Lainey discloses her own traumatic history, revealing deep-seated motives for her actions.
• [28:13] – Tour of Lainey’s home; introduction of boxes containing Anna’s keepsakes and evidence.
• [32:37] – Connection made between Mr. Wrong, books, and Anna/Willow.
• [39:02] – Ryder theorizes about the teacher, “Jacob Wyman,” connecting him to predatory relationships with both sisters.
• [43:13] – Reference to the incriminating novel “Damage” and its placement in Anna’s life.
• [45:05] – Cliffhanger: police serve a warrant at Ryder’s family home.

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Structure and Tone

The episode fuses personal recollection, literary analysis, true crime detective work, and raw emotional confrontation. Dialogue is natural, confessional, and occasionally tense or defensive—often interrupted by painful honesty or abrupt revelations. Ryder functions alternately as a narrator, investigator, and guilty bystander.

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Conclusion

This episode marks a watershed in both the personal and investigative arcs of the podcast. Heightened by Lainey’s painful disclosures about her past and the damning book inscriptions, Ryder makes a chilling link: Anna and Willow were likely targeted by the same predatory man—a teacher—over years. The episode closes on multiple unresolved questions, as Ryder’s family itself becomes the subject of police scrutiny, suggesting that the fog of suspicion and trauma continues to spread.

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For listeners: If you’re following the narrative closely, pay special attention to

• The “handwriting” and literary connections (the role that shared annotated books play in exposing relationships and secrets)
• Lainey’s and Ryder’s differing memories and motivations
• The “teacher” angle—Jacob Wyman, “Operation Van Gogh,” the coded references to age, secrecy, and forbidden relationships

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Next episode promises:
Confrontations with law enforcement, further dives into evidence, and a reckoning with both the past and current fallout from prying into old wounds.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Friend/Commentator]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now gener assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures

[Ryder Strong]

the Red Weather is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons or events reflects the adaptation of real, publicly available materials for creative and legal reasons. The content of this podcast is the sole responsibility of Red Weather, LLC and does not reflect the views or responsibilities of iHeartMedia or its affiliates. Previously on the Red Weather. A few days before she died, I got a letter from Willow. Willow was my neighbor and one of my best friends as a kid. The central trauma of Willow's life had to do with her sister, Anna. On Halloween night, 1995, Anna disappeared. Well, it's a little superficial, but I. I would love to see some of this stuff. I was reading the evidence catalog for Anna Trainor's case. Like this book, maybe. And then. Could I see the bullets? I always said that she made that

[Friend/Commentator]

tape for somebody else, an older guy.

[Lainey Trainor]

You said this thing last week. You said, oh, I'm glad you're 16, at least, because I know it's cause you just, like, want me to drive.

[Narrator]

But then it also can't be true that age doesn't matter.

[Ryder Strong]

I think in order to get more information about that, I need to talk to Lainey because, brutal. I know.

[Friend/Commentator]

It's going to be a worst conversation.

[Ryder Strong]

I know. I'm not looking forward to it.

[Lainey Trainor]

Writer. It's Lany Trainor. I don't know. It's been years. Decades. I'm in Colorado. Okay, call me back, buddy.

[Ryder Strong]

And I knew I had to go to Colorado. I was over a month into investigating the disappearance of Anna Traynor when I finally heard from her mom, Lainey.

[Lainey Trainor]

I have lots to show you, things you need to see.

[Ryder Strong]

We traded phone calls. She agreed that if I came out to Denver, she would tell me everything. We set a date. I got a flight. I was excited. But then. I cannot believe she's gonna talk to you. My buddy Chris reminded me he basically ran away with her daughter that one summer. What are you talking about? Didn't you and Willow take that road

[Friend/Commentator]

trip up through Humboldt?

[Ryder Strong]

I started this podcast because Anna's sister Willow sent me a letter before she killed herself. Yeah, but it wasn't like we were running away. Connor, our other friend, agreed with Chris.

[Friend/Commentator]

She'd already run away. She was living in the Hess Building.

[Ryder Strong]

The Hess Building was an abandoned building behind the coffee shop in our hometown. I mean, I just remember you had to go through, like, this little fence to get in. And then, you know, it was all run down. The whole wall was open, and you could kind of climb around a lot of different places, but that was the spot you'd go and smoke weed and. I mean, it Wasn't really a party place. I never really, like, partied there, but that's where people would go out. I know she lived there for a while. In the years after her sister disappeared, Willow's life began to unravel a bit. Drugs, alcohol. She discovered raves in San Francisco. She dropped out of school. It was definitely a rough time, a dramatic time for her and me. You might remember the first episode of this podcast I mentioned. There was a moment when Willow and I dated. I wasn't sure if I'd ever talk about that. This was a podcast about Anna, after all, trying to uncover what happened to her, or at least get a better understanding of her story. After I talked with Connor and Chris, though, I went back and found my last contact with Lainey. It was an email she sent me in 1998. It was just a subject line in all caps. It said, ryder, stay the hell away from my daughter. I am actor and filmmaker Ryder Strong. This is the red weather, Sam. In some ways, I was further along in Anna's case than I'd ever dreamed. I had found new evidence, a new angle, and a new hypothetical person who might have helped her run away, maybe even killed her. The catch. I had no clue who that person could be. Lainey seemed to know what I was talking about, though. She knew all about the stalker, she said. When we connected over the phone, she said she had plenty of evidence, but Sheriff Maldonado and his team ignored her. I couldn't confirm this, though, because the sheriff's department was no longer talking to me.

[Lainey Trainor]

So she has stuff to show you.

[Ryder Strong]

I was leaving home again at the worst time. Personally. My son had a play performance and a piano recital, but my wife was understanding.

[Lainey Trainor]

I mean, it's not great timing, but, yeah, it seems important.

[Ryder Strong]

Do you know where my copy of the Subterranean is?

[Lainey Trainor]

You're going for a few days. How many books do you need?

[Ryder Strong]

No, no, no, it's not for that. I'm. I'm looking for this very specific copy.

[Lainey Trainor]

Just get a Kindle. No.

[Ryder Strong]

But I wasn't just looking for a casual reread. I was preparing to see Lainey. Jack Kerouac's novel the Subterranean was one of my favorites when I was younger, and I wanted to find a specific copy after seeing the Stay away from my daughter email. I checked the timing, and Connor and Chris were right. It was right after a very specific experience, a road trip I took with Willow in 1998. Willow gave me the Subterranean on this trip, and I found it wedged in my bookcase.

[Narrator]

Welcome to Hollywood, Burbank Airport.

[Lainey Trainor]

A reminder for passengers.

[Ryder Strong]

On my way to Colorado, I flipped through. Was a copy that got passed around, full of little notes and underlined passages. There were a few books like this in our friend group that we all read and handed off to one another. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, east of Eden.

[Friend/Commentator]

I remember one of the first books

[Ryder Strong]

that you lent me was Wordsworth. It's a book of poetry by Wordsworth. Then we started getting really into the Americana stuff, right? So we moved into the Beat Generation. And so it was like Kerouac and Burroughs. Ginsburg. I think you gave me my first copy of on the Road. I kept the copy with like your notes in it and my notes in it. And we put our names on the front. Like everybody that we passed this book along to, we'd share. And I remember doing that with a few books. Yeah, I remember that. Subterranean is kind of crazy. It's overwrought, dense. It's about a week long love affair that ends badly. I looked at all the underlined parts, the notes scribbled in the margins. I found my own bad handwriting. But there were other notes, too. Some of them were from Willow. I know because she had a habit of putting stars next to passages she liked. But she was also responding to notes from someone else. Like the one that said, love makes men crazy. And Willow had written women too. Next to a section where Kerouac's narrator jumps on a street sweeper cart. The other person wrote lost cause. These were from the guy who'd given her the book. Mr. Wrong. Mr. Wrong was exactly why our road trip was such a disaster. I landed in Denver and got a rental car. Laney lives in a suburb called Commerce City. I checked into a hotel and pulled up to her House around 5pm I could see Lainey on the porch. I decided to record from the get go. Hey, Laney. Hi.

[Lainey Trainor]

You look like a middle aged rider. That's.

[Ryder Strong]

That's what I am. Hi.

[Lainey Trainor]

Hi. Wow.

[Ryder Strong]

What.

[Lainey Trainor]

What are you, a spy?

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, I know. It's. Is it all right if I recording?

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah, of course. I told you you could just. Don't upload my brain to the mothership.

[Ryder Strong]

So, I really thank you for talking to me.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah, you know what? You're welcome.

[Ryder Strong]

Lanie had always been small, and she seemed even smaller now. But not fragile. She still looks like she could live in the woods.

[Lainey Trainor]

If you told me that we would get somewhere, anywhere with Anna's case, let alone that it would be right or strong, I would have told you you were crazy.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, well, you know, it was Willow's letter.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. I'm so sorry.

[Lainey Trainor]

I know. I know, honey. Here, let's. Let's have a seat, huh? Oh, sure.

[Ryder Strong]

She had chairs on her porch. She had bourbon.

[Lainey Trainor]

You want a little of this?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Why not? Thank you. I got the feeling Laney might have already had a few.

[Lainey Trainor]

I need to tell you something. I was angry with you for so long. You know that.

[Ryder Strong]

And here it comes. It's kind of a long story, but I had seen Willow a few weeks earlier. We. We ran into each other at a party in Santa Cruz. My road trip with Willow was doomed from the start, and I wasn't there for. So why was I not there? You were already back east, but actually, I guess you would have been home for the summer. Chris had already transferred to a boarding school in Boston. One thing leads to another, and we find ourselves in this room at this party, making out. But that was not the first time, my friend, was it? No. She was my first kiss. But context is everything. That first time, we were nine, and it was a game of truth or dare. Then she stops kissing me and tells me she can't. Can't do this. She's seen someone. Brutal. Yeah. So I'm like. I'm all hurt and embarrassed and. Because here we've finally taken this leap from friends to, oh, yeah, maybe we're gonna date, and then just, boom, like, immediately shut down. Of course there's someone else. This was the first time I heard about Mr. Wrong. But a few weeks later, Willow called me from the Oakland Airport. She wanted me to pick her up. She was supposed to be getting on a flight to some kind of summer camp or retreat. I wasn't totally clear, but she didn't want to go. She wanted us to hit the road. She wanted to see if we can be together. I was free. And I did want to see if we could be together. There was a big part of me that had been in love with Willow from the moment I met her. So I drove to Oakland.

[Lainey Trainor]

There were years. Years. Right. Where I could not say your name. I wouldn't. You know when you picked up Willow that summer?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah. And you guys just took off?

[Ryder Strong]

You vanished? Yeah. I mean, I thought. I thought it was fine, really, because she called me, asked me to come pick her up because she didn't want to go to the camp.

[Lainey Trainor]

A camp?

[Ryder Strong]

You know, that thing in Montana, wherever she was going.

[Lainey Trainor]

Camp? You mean like a. Like a summer camp?

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. Why?

[Lainey Trainor]

It was rehab Writer.

[Ryder Strong]

I should have known. Oh, God.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah. We we found her. Willa had. She had bottles. She had all these pills. Just a whole bunch of pills. Yeah, me and Charlie. You remember Charlie? Yeah, kind of.

[Ryder Strong]

Kind of? I actually didn't think I ever met Charlie, but I knew that was Lainey's boyfriend for a couple of years. A pseudo stepdad to Willa.

[Lainey Trainor]

She wasn't going to school, wasn't coming home, so Charlie had found the place. A place for her to, you know, get treatment. We'd already paid for it.

[Ryder Strong]

It was like, for two weeks. No, I had no idea.

[Lainey Trainor]

Really? You had no idea?

[Ryder Strong]

I should have known within minutes of picking Willow up that she was lying. That she didn't want some soul searching road trip. This was not a romantic getaway. She was all distracted and emotional and manic. Yeah, totally. You know, she just wanted to listen to music and find places to camp where no one was around. Smoked cigarettes, and she just, like, burst into tears suddenly. We spent a week driving north up into Humboldt. And despite what she'd insinuated over the phone, everything was strictly platonic. I could tell she was going through something, but I didn't want to pry. But I also was confused and had a lot of my own feelings. It wasn't until about five days into the trip that she finally told me what was going on. She was pregnant.

[Lainey Trainor]

For three weeks, I didn't know where my daughter was.

[Ryder Strong]

She didn't tell me.

[Lainey Trainor]

I hope now that you're a father you understand. I can't.

[Ryder Strong]

I can't.

[Lainey Trainor]

But, lady, let me just get this out.

[Ryder Strong]

Ryder, please.

[Lainey Trainor]

For three weeks, I didn't know where she was. My moonbeam. I thought I had lost her. It was Anna all over again. And she finally called when you left her in San Francisco. And she never got over that writer, by the way. I'm not gonna lie. That's a wound that did not heal. I had to drive down to the city, and she was a mess. She was crushed.

[Ryder Strong]

This was tricky because in my mind, I hadn't left Willow in San Francisco. In fact, I wanted to stay at first, but Willow had decided to have an abortion. And she told me that the father, Mr. Wrong, was coming to help her. But I didn't want to sit here and get into that with Lainey for two reasons. One, I thought there was a good chance Willow had lied to her mom that she told Lainey I was the father. And two, I thought that was a lie not worth correcting, because I had a bad feeling about Mr. Wrong. She ever tell you who it was? No. No clue. Right. That's the thing. She just told me that she shouldn't be with this guy and honestly I had this thought like maybe it was her mom's boyfriend. Holy shit. Charlie. Seriously? Yes, I know. It's incredibly fucked up. Yeah, it is. Why. Why else wouldn't she tell me who it was? Wouldn't tell you? Wouldn't tell any of us. Okay, I get that you didn't want to upset Lainey, but. But why does any of this matter? Yeah, what does this have to do with Anna? Well, because of what Lainey showed me in.

[Lainey Trainor]

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[Narrator]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Narrator]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Narrator]

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[Lainey Trainor]

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[Friend/Commentator]

show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

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[Ryder Strong]

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[Ryder Strong]

you know that I wrote a short story about that road trip with Willow? Was it called Friend zone down Route 66? It was the first story I published. I fictionalized a lot. The characters were older and I gave the girl a different name, Opal. But the plot was the same. A man and a woman go on a road trip to run away and give being together a shot. Then she reveals she's pregnant with her ex boyfriend's child. I went back over the story for any clues to who Mr. Wrong was. So in the story I'm trying to get her to tell me who the father is. And this is what I wrote. She wasn't gonna say. I wanted to scream. I wanted to leave. I wanted to kiss her. Oof. Rider strong. More like writer weak. I hated him, whoever he was, with nothing to go on, he grew monstrous and perfect in my mind.

[Friend/Commentator]

Oh, now that is a good line, friend.

[Ryder Strong]

He was rich. He was cool. He was taller than me, older, listened to better music. None of that might be true, but I knew one thing. He made her happy. At one time, he made Opal happy. Older, richer, taller. Right, but see, that's. That's me being insecure and paranoid, right? So, like, that's just speculation. In real life, I dropped Willow off at a hotel near a planned parenthood and drove off, confused and sad. In the story, the narrator turns back around, he picks her up, and they decide to stay together. I left it ambiguous if they kept the child or not. Anyway, so here I was on the porch with Lainey, who's, like, still in mourning. This woman has lost two daughters now, right? And all I can do is sort of lamely defend the fact that I didn't abandon her pregnant daughter to get an abortion by herself. Yeah. I really didn't want to leave her. I. I was. That was not my intention. I mean, we thought about it. I wanted to stay.

[Lainey Trainor]

Okay.

[Ryder Strong]

All right. I could tell Lainey didn't believe me. And I couldn't blame her, because no matter how I described it, no matter how I spun it, I did leave Willow. And I honestly can't remember how it went down exactly. I remember crying. I remember her crying. And I know she told me to go, but why did I listen? Was it because I was respecting her wishes? Or was I hurt and pissed off? Was I jealous of Mr. Wrong? Was I mad that she wouldn't tell me who he was? Was I mad that she didn't want to make out with me? Yes. I think yes to all of those things. Is it better if I leave?

[Narrator]

No.

[Lainey Trainor]

I need to show you what I have. It's too important.

[Ryder Strong]

But we stayed on the porch. Lainey smoked. She poured more whiskey. Eventually, she began to talk about the tender hearts.

[Lainey Trainor]

Oh, yeah, man. We were. We were gonna change the world. It was radical. It was a radical change. And with the kids, we thought it was perfect. Let the woods be school at nature, or, you know, be their teacher.

[Ryder Strong]

But the reality was, the kids, the grommets, got older.

[Lainey Trainor]

God damn. Liam was out of hand. What a snot. And him and his mom left when he was, like, 9 or 10. And then Joan's son started going to Twin Hills.

[Ryder Strong]

Before they knew it, Laney and the other moms were driving to three different schools.

[Lainey Trainor]

Suddenly, our, like, free flowing, groovy thing became about who was picking up whose kids? Who had the keys to whose car? And, God, my girls hated it. Anna hated it. She wanted Diet Coke and Cheetos. She wanted Pom Poms and, you know, the fucking Sadie Hawkins dance. Oh, God. There was a girl in town, Bailey. Bam, Bam, whatever. And she would be dropped off by her mom. And she would pull up in the front of the school. And she had this, like, white Jeep. You know, the blonde hair and all the clothes. And Anna turns to me one day and she says, why can't we be like that? And I was like, honey stardust, Love of my life. That is death. That is hell. You want to live like that, you got to take the whole thing. You're going to have a job you hate. You're going to have some man telling you what to do, breathing down your neck.

[Ryder Strong]

Laney saw tender hearts as a refuge.

[Lainey Trainor]

I was protecting them. My girls, they had no idea how much I was protecting them. I was coming from. Well, I'm gonna tell you, I don't care. I was raped when I was 14.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, God.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah. By my dad's best friend, Cooper Davis. Cooper Davis.

[Ryder Strong]

So sorry. That's awful.

[Lainey Trainor]

And for my parents, for Cooper, there was something normal about it, you know? It was, like, expected. First week of summer. Lanie's 14. Lanie has a new bathing suit.

[Ryder Strong]

So, sure.

[Lainey Trainor]

Cooper couldn't help himself. I felt unbelievable. You know what my dad did? He went and he had a talk with him. My mom's a mess. My brother Jacob does know what the hell is going on. My dad goes to Cooper. The men had their talk, and everything's fine. Just right back under the rug. They have their talk. Cooper comes to dinner the next week. You want to smoke? Yeah. Come on.

[Ryder Strong]

Just. Thank you.

[Lainey Trainor]

You gotta quit this shit, Writer. I stopped. I made it almost five years this spring.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, good for you.

[Lainey Trainor]

Wait till you have a teenager. What do you have, a girl?

[Ryder Strong]

Son.

[Lainey Trainor]

Oh, my God. Thank God. You better thank God. Every day you take him to the woods. It could be free time.

[Ryder Strong]

I do, actually. I try. Yeah. Anna turning away from the tender hearts. Wasn't just a lifestyle choice or a philosophical betrayal. It brought real consequences.

[Lainey Trainor]

She goes off for the all American life. And what did it get her? It got her shitty friends, the mall girls. I called them. A boyfriend who thinks he owns her and some other fucking guy. She won't say who it is. And in her notes of his constant, constantly bugging her.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay, so this is the stalker. At first, Anna complained about a guy who wouldn't leave her alone. But Then things changed.

[Lainey Trainor]

All of a sudden, she's missing school, late nights, taking the car out. He wore her down. That son of a. Wore down.

[Ryder Strong]

And she never said who it was?

[Lainey Trainor]

No, because by then, you know, she lost her tender heart. She barely talked to me anymore.

[Ryder Strong]

Hold up, hold up. Is this where you tell me Anna's stalker was? Charlie? No. No, because Charlie and Laney didn't meet until 1997, and he was. He was stationed overseas in 95. But you're on the right track. Lainey was convinced that she had evidence that could solve Anna's case. But Maldonado and his team wouldn't listen to her.

[Lainey Trainor]

They're pulling bullets out of trees, chasing parking tickets, going after Elric. They destroyed that man.

[Narrator]

They just.

[Lainey Trainor]

They destroyed him. You lose your daughter, you know, but if you care about that, you want to actually do the work, well, then I'm a crazy lady, right?

[Ryder Strong]

I'm.

[Lainey Trainor]

I'm hysterical. Miss, Miss, calm down. You know what that means, you know, know your place, Keep your mouth shut. Let the men work. Let the men do their thing.

[Ryder Strong]

Cooper comes to dinner next week.

[Lainey Trainor]

God damn, look at you. That's right. You listen. You're open, Ryder. Okay, let's head inside. Yeah, sure.

[Ryder Strong]

Walking in, though, I wished we'd stayed outside. I couldn't see the floor. Clothes everywhere. She had rows of paper bags, brown paper bags that looked like they were filled with rocks. And there was inside insulation rolls and strips of pink wall insulation piled around.

[Lainey Trainor]

I've been meaning to go through all this stuff.

[Ryder Strong]

Blankets, baskets, and figurines. She had a huge collection of kachina dolls, Traditional Hopi figurines. I didn't know where to walk, where I could walk, so I focused on those. Oh, these are great.

[Lainey Trainor]

Oh, yeah. My little warriors.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Lainey Trainor]

Let's. Let's go to the kitchen.

[Ryder Strong]

Sure.

[Lainey Trainor]

Got these three boxes here.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, wow.

[Lainey Trainor]

It's my Anna collection.

[Ryder Strong]

One box was full of early childhood stuff.

[Lainey Trainor]

Her first little haircutting.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah.

[Lainey Trainor]

Look at this dress she made. Isn't that good? Purple and white. My stardust child Willow was my moonbeam But Anna was all stardust.

[Ryder Strong]

It was a lot of homemade trinkets. There was a dream catcher, then there was a box of stuff from when she was older.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah, this was the makeup box she made me buy her.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, were those Anna's? Yeah, it was a collection of books. Edgar Allan Poe, the Dow of Pooh, the Secret Language of Birthdays. It. Yes. And there was a copy of Stephen King's. It. It was the same edition.

[Lainey Trainor]

I remembered reading Anna Liked all that Gothic stuff. But here, this is. This is the real stuff. Here.

[Ryder Strong]

She pulled out big folded papers and leather notebooks.

[Lainey Trainor]

So. Okay, the first thing, the most important thing is the fire, right? Willow's rage.

[Ryder Strong]

Lanie unfolded a map of Sonoma County.

[Lainey Trainor]

So when Anna didn't come home the next morning, I knew that we were dealing with vindictive forces.

[Ryder Strong]

She also had a page of tracing paper with lines and symbols. And I started to get worried.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah, these are. Here, take them.

[Ryder Strong]

Here.

[Lainey Trainor]

Come on. Break this candle.

[Ryder Strong]

I realized too late I had backed myself into a corner.

[Lainey Trainor]

This is the constellation Pleiades. You know, your stars? No, Ples. The Seven Sisters. Right. Yes. So that's key. Okay, now, look at this. Do you see this? Look at this.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, even the way they line up.

[Lainey Trainor]

Yeah, they line up exactly.

[Ryder Strong]

Look.

[Lainey Trainor]

Burn here. No, burn here. Burn here. Willow started that fire, but there were. There were spirit guiding it, spirit stopping it.

[Ryder Strong]

I knew that if I said the wrong thing, I'd be one more person telling Laney she was crazy and hysterical. Okay.

[Lainey Trainor]

Okay. But the real breakthrough, yeah, came later. Now, this is. This is my journal here. I tracked every session I had with Marianne.

[Ryder Strong]

Oh, who's Mary? Who's Marianne?

[Lainey Trainor]

Marianne was the medium I met in 2002, by the way. I met her on October 23, 2002. Anna's birthday. I found her in Monterey. She was working with the Pascali group. She was trained by Pascali himself.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Lainey, I don't. I'm sorry. I don't want to. I don't mean to cut you off.

[Lainey Trainor]

No, you need to be open writer. I need you to look at this.

[Ryder Strong]

You have to be open. I'm open. I. I'm trying to be. I just want. I think I should just be very clear. I'm an atheist. And I'm, you know, die hard skeptic.

[Lainey Trainor]

You don't believe me?

[Ryder Strong]

I believe that you. I don't doubt that you had an experience.

[Lainey Trainor]

I had a series of experiences.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Right. But I. You know, I'm looking. I'm trying to find some evidence that this is. I don't know what I can really do with this. It's not like I tried to get her attention back to the. The first couple boxes. I'm. I'm thinking more like. Do you have any journals or letters that you want? Yeah.

[Lainey Trainor]

I showed you this box right here.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Yeah. So the books. And what is this? Is this my. I was flipping through the copy of it. Is this Anna's handwriting? Who. Who gave her this book?

[Lainey Trainor]

I Don't know.

[Ryder Strong]

Because I have a book from Willow and I swear it's the exact same handwriting. There was a note in the margin of one page. Lost cause, Mr. Wrong. I remembered the book in evidence at the sheriff's department too. The way of the Peaceful Warrior. Did it have notes in it? What book? From Willow. I have it back in my hotel. If I could. Can I keep this?

[Lainey Trainor]

That was Anna's.

[Ryder Strong]

Okay. Right. Cause Willow, do you know who was giving her books? Like, who would have been giving her?

[Lainey Trainor]

A writer, friends, teachers.

[Ryder Strong]

Lainey said it so casually, but I suddenly had a very strong sinking feeling. A teacher? Yeah. Cause Willow gave me a book and it was from the guy that she was seeing in 98, the guy that she called Mr. Wrong.

[Lainey Trainor]

Mr. Wrong.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah, he was. I don't know. I don't know who he was, but he was the father. He was the father.

[Lainey Trainor]

Whose father?

[Ryder Strong]

You know, baby Willow's baby Lainey. What? Can I turn that fucking thing off?

[Lainey Trainor]

You know what's wild?

[Narrator]

We can video chat from space, order

[Lainey Trainor]

groceries just by talking out loud. And men have like 17 options for hair loss alone. But a bra that actually fits and. And feels good. Apparently too much to ask.

[Narrator]

Until now.

[Lainey Trainor]

Meet the uplift bra from Nyx. That's K N I X. A wireless bra that finally delivers real lift and all day comfort. The secret, molded cups with a built in foam panel that gently enhances your natural shape so you get a subtle boost without wires. Digging. Or that. Why am I still wearing this moment at 3pm you asked for it. We delivered in a push up bra that doesn't dig, poke or pinch. And with an extensive size range from

[Narrator]

28A through 42E, you'll be sure to

[Lainey Trainor]

find your perfect fit with the uplift. Try the uplift [e-mail] and use code

[Narrator]

perfectfit15 for 15% off your first order.

[Lainey Trainor]

That's knix.com, code perfectfit15nix.com Support for the

[Friend/Commentator]

show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Narrator]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com lately my friends keep asking

[Lainey Trainor]

what I'm doing to my skin.

[Narrator]

Honestly, I didn't change my makeup. I changed my skincare. It's called Farmhouse Fresh. This award winning fresh grown brand is a 14 year favorite of US spas and beauty magazines and celebrities. Agree if you're over 40 and feel like nothing really makes a difference anymore, this does. My skin looks brighter, smoother and yes, people notice. Get the Farmhouse Fresh Skincare glow.

[Ryder Strong]

Go to farmhousefreshskincare.com Lainey never knew Willow was pregnant. Never knew she had an abortion. She was understandably upset. She asked me to leave. Oh my God. It was awful. I called my wife after I drove away. Well, I mean it sounds like she's still grieving. Yes, I know. But I mean, how was I supposed to know that she didn't know this? Like there was no way I could know that.

[Lainey Trainor]

I don't think I knew the whole story.

[Ryder Strong]

I told you About Willow, maybe. But isn't this podcast about her sister? Yes, it is. Right?

[Lainey Trainor]

I didn't think you're gonna be spending all your time talking about an ex girlfriend.

[Ryder Strong]

She's. She's a friend. It was just like this one. You know, this one moment when we're teenagers, right? Who you were in love with and who you, what, drove to get an abortion. That's not what this is about.

[Lainey Trainor]

It's kind of becoming about that.

[Ryder Strong]

Yeah. All right, look, I gotta. I gotta get to the hotel. I'm still kind of reeling right now, so can I just call you later? Yeah. I went to the hotel. I wasn't sure if I should stay in Denver and try and call Lainey the next day or what. I felt horrible here. Lainey thought I was coming to help her, that I was, somebody was finally going to take her seriously and maybe help give her answers. Instead, I brought more doubt, more questions. Maybe even made her feel betrayed by her other daughter. Hold on.

[Friend/Commentator]

You think Mr. Wrong, the guy who

[Ryder Strong]

got Willow pregnant and Anna's killer are the same person? I called Chris and Monica to go over things. Exactly. Because of a note in a book? No, it's more than that. It's more. It all fits. Just stay with me here, okay? Anna has a stalker. She complains to her mom, but then at some point, Anna stops complaining about him and she actually starts dating him. And she makes the tape for him, but she doesn't say his name on the tape because it's a secret relationship. She can't tell anyone. Her mom, her sister, Mick, anyone. She doesn't want anybody to know who this guy is. There's something wrong or inappropriate, maybe illegal about their affair. And they have a plan. Operation Van Gogh. And from the tape, we know he's scared of what society thinks of him. He's told her age doesn't matter. There's also this moment.

[Lainey Trainor]

Van Gogh suffered from severe emotional and psychological problems and died in France at the end, age of 37. 37.

[Ryder Strong]

That makes me think that he was 37. Or I don't like about to turn 37. And maybe he's married. Maybe he would lose his job. Maybe he's a teacher. Halloween night, Anna and Mick have their fight. The mean girls are mean. And Anna makes a decision. It's time for Operation Van Gogh. But she still pages Mick. Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe she's torn. Should she get back together with Mick or run away with this other guy? Maybe she's hedging her bets because the guy might not go through with Operation Van Gogh. Either way, yes, she pages Mick, but then she changes her mind and she meets up with this other guy. He picks her up before Mick gets the payphone. Or they meet somewhere else entirely. And maybe they start Operation Van Gogh. Maybe he helps her get to the airport to fly away some somewhere. Or they fight and she threatens to tell everyone about their affair, which would ruin his life.

[Lainey Trainor]

Maybe he kills her to cover up the affair.

[Ryder Strong]

He hides her body. He drives Tony down to the Kelty lot. Makes it plausible that Anna just ran away. Now, all that is pretty much what I was thinking anyway when I was focused on Mick. But here's what's new. Three years later, 1998. The guy got away with it. Anna's gone. The case is cold. Life has moved on for everyone. But he's still in town. He is? Yeah. He's still potentially in Laney's life. He could be a friend of the family, he's still teaching. And lo and behold, here comes Willow, a new young trainer girl. This is grass. I know, but it's a pattern, right? If this guy's got a thing for grooming young girls, what are the chances that he would do it more than one once? Hi. I guess now it's 1998 and Willow, like her sister, is in a secret relationship. And Willow can't tell anyone. Not her mom, not us. Why not? The same reasons Anna didn't tell anyone. He's older, he's inappropriate. He's maybe still a teacher, still married. Jesus. Do you remember Jacob Wyman? No. The English teacher? I never had him, but there were kids who loved this guy. He was one of those dudes that was like one of the kids to call him by his first name. Not Mr. Wyman, but Jacob. Oh, was he the one that took kids camping? Yes, exactly. Exactly. The senior trip. Jacob's senior trip. Okay. Who's that? He was a teacher at analytics. Did he ever come up? No, but hold on, I'm going to search the archives. Monica still had access to the back Articles of the press Democrat. Oh, there's a lot. I mean, these are boring mentions. Assemblies, football games, direct to school play one year. Oh, okay. There's an article about Harry Potter. He's quoted. It was 2001, remember? There was a backlash to Harry Potter, that the books were promoting witchcraft. We don't give kids enough credit, says Jacob Wyman, an English teacher at Annalee High School. I'd rather kids explore things dark or risky things in fiction. I encourage them to read whatever they enjoy. Horror, crime, any genre. Yeah, Anna had a copy of Stephen King's hit. His stance, though, isn't without controversy. Wyman landed in hot water last semester when several parents noticed he had included the novel Damage by Josephine Hart on his fall reading list. I could see their concerns. Wyman said he ended up dropping Damage from his syllabus. I don't. What is this book? Damage. Yes. Damage by Josephine Hart is a psychological thriller centered on a respectable British politician, Dr. Stephen Fleming, whose life spirals when he becomes obsessively and destructively involved with his son's fiance, Anna. Are you kidding me? The character's name is Anna. Forbidden Desire, Secret Affair, an older man and a younger woman. All right, I haven't read it. I haven't read this, but it sounded familiar. I thought maybe because it was a bestseller, because there was a movie made, but actually it was familiar for another reason. What's this other note here? Weeks ago, I had been requesting items one by one from the evidence catalog at the sheriff's department. Damage. Hart spelled H A R T. The

[Friend/Commentator]

that might be a note that the

[Ryder Strong]

book is damaged or could be a type of damaged art. I needed to see that book. That night in Denver, I could barely sleep. This felt like enough to bring to Greer and Lachlan. They could open up the evidence locker and and see for themselves. I compiled my clip so I could call the sheriff's department in the morning. But when I woke up, I got a call from my brother. Hey, what's going on? Hey. So the sheriff's department is here. He was calling from my parents house. What? Yeah, they have a warrant and they're searching the house. They're going through all the closets and outside. It's like.

[Lainey Trainor]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Ryder Strong]

I don't understand. What are they? What are they looking for? Guns. The Red Weather is an iHeart podcast hosted by Ryder Strong. Sound Engineering ed, Editing and mixing by Bo Milkus Produced by Tess Bartholomew executive producers at iHeartRadio Trevor Young and Matt Frederick Associate producer Bo Milkus. Original score by Kyle Morton. If you're enjoying the show, please remember to leave a review and rating. Thanks for listening. Foreign.

[Narrator]

You're listening to a podcast, so you're doing something else too. Like maybe scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving places you like without thinking you'll get them. Because that's what house hunting has become. But Redfin isn't built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents, which means when you find a place you love, you've got a real shot at getting it. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get [e-mail] own the dream. You see it instantly. It's Coldwater Creek, the mark of exceptional workmanship and signature touches inspired by a Mountain west heritage. Distinctive styles created from quality fabrics, silhouettes perfected with just the right drape feel good fits offering ease of movement and thoughtful details to elevate your look. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com shop the new spring collection at 20% off $75 or more with code iheart20 this podcast is sponsored by Nurture Life. Hey, it's Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. And as a mom to two growing boys, I know how chaotic mealtime can get. No matter how confident I am with what I'm serving them, my kids will always find a way to call the meal gross or stinky or yuck. It's true, they can be wildly picky about new foods, and with my busy schedule, I don't have the time to become America's next Top Chef. And so that's why I love Nurture Life. It's a meal delivery service that actually caters to kids. Ideal for ages 8 months to 8 years, fully cooked and ready to serve in just one minute. It's the problem solver I've been praying for. It's the top meal delivery service for babies, toddlers and kids. And everything is designed by registered dietitians so you can sleep safe knowing your kids are getting the protein, veggies and nutrients they need while still eating favorites like Mac and cheese, spaghetti and meatballs, and so much more. Plus, it's allergy friendly, which we know is clutch. And when it comes to options, Nurture Life has you covered. There's more than 50 nutritious meals and snacks on their menu, from soft finger foods for babies and toddlers to balanced kids meals for when they get Nurture Life does the cooking, they deliver it straight to your door, and then you might even have time to eat something for yourself. So now is the time to head to nurturelife.com pod and use code pod for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. That's right, 50% off plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com pod and make sure you use promo Code Podcast. Even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our Code pod with them. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. That website one more time is nurturelife.com podpod from coast to coast, Unlock adventure at Red Lion Hotel by Sonesta, where restful sleep, friendly service and local knowledge await. Whether for business or pleasure, spend less and make more of every trip. When you sign up for Sonesta Travel Pass, you'll get the best rates instantly. Go to sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock the best rates with Sonesta Travel Pass. Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply.