Written by Stu Krieger… (Part 2)

Summary

Pod Meets World: Episode Summary – “Written by Stu Krieger… (Part 2)”

Release Date: May 26, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Pod Meets World, hosted by Danielle, Will, and Rider from iHeartPodcasts, the team delves deep into the creative processes behind beloved Disney Channel Original Movies (DCOMs). This installment features a special guest, Stu Krieger, a renowned writer whose contributions have shaped many iconic films. Together, they explore the intricacies of writing for Disney, the challenges faced, and the heartfelt moments that make these movies resonate with audiences of all ages.

Guest Introduction: Stu Krieger

The episode kicks off with a warm welcome to Stu Krieger, a legendary figure in the world of DCOMs. The hosts express their admiration for Stu’s extensive body of work, highlighting his pivotal role in crafting memorable dialogues and storylines that have become fan favorites.

Host 1 (03:25): “We’re sending you to 1993 when TGIF reigned supreme and 'Boy Meets World' first premiered. ...We’re going to be talking about Smart House, True Confessions, and more. Please welcome Stu Krieger.”

Stu shares his journey with the Disney Channel, recounting his early projects like The Parent Trap 2 and the Freaky Friday remake, which established his strong relationship with Disney.

Deep Dive into Smart House

One of the primary topics of discussion is the movie Smart House. Stu elaborates on how he was brought on board to infuse heart and authentic relationships into the script, transforming it from a purely mechanical narrative to one rich with emotional depth.

Stu Krieger (05:02): “With Smart House, it was about reconfiguring relationships and underlying issues. I wanted to ensure the father and son dynamics felt real and relatable.”

The hosts commend Stu for the movie’s quiet, poignant moments that stood out amidst the typical high-energy DCOM antics. They highlight how these genuine interactions set Smart House apart, making it resonate deeply with viewers.

Host 1 (06:24): “We loved the real moments in Smart House – the heartfelt interactions that went beyond the flashy gadgets.”

Stu takes pride in maintaining authenticity, particularly in portraying the father character with depth and realism, avoiding common tropes of the "dumb dad."

Stu Krieger (09:02): “My personal mandate was, I'm not going to do a dumb dad. He has to be a fully dimensional character who has his own needs and struggles.”

Collaborating with Lavar Burton

The conversation shifts to Stu’s collaboration with Lavar Burton on the set of Smart House. Stu describes the seamless teamwork and mutual understanding that made the project successful.

Stu Krieger (09:28): “Lavar was amazing. We were in sync with the movie's vision without any conflicts. It was a wonderful collaboration.”

He shares a memorable day touring the intricate set of the Smart House with Lavar, emphasizing the meticulous attention to detail that brought the futuristic house to life.

Exploring Cowbells

Next, the hosts delve into the creative process behind another DCOM, Cowbells. Stu explains how working with established bands like Aly & AJ influenced the script and character development.

Stu Krieger (12:29): “With Cowbells, Aly and AJ were already attached, so it was about enhancing their characters to shine as the stars Disney wanted them to be.”

Adapting True Confessions from a Novel

Stu discusses the challenges and rewards of adapting True Confessions from a novel to a film. He highlights the importance of staying true to the source material while making it visually and narratively engaging for the screen.

Stu Krieger (22:04): “Adapting a diary-format novel required transforming internal thoughts into visual storytelling. We introduced the concept of a video diary to bridge this gap.”

He elaborates on the collaborative process with co-writer Paul Hoen, emphasizing their shared vision and seamless teamwork.

Stu Krieger (26:29): “Working with Paul was an instant love affair. We have a shorthand that makes the collaboration effortless and productive.”

Addressing Intellectual Disabilities in Proof Point

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Proof Point, a film that tackles sensitive subjects like intellectual disabilities. Stu opens up about the meticulous research and empathy required to portray such characters authentically.

Stu Krieger (31:37): “Authenticity is crucial. Jana and I spent a day with individuals who had similar disabilities to deeply understand their experiences.”

He reflects on the impact of the film, sharing heartfelt stories from fans who found solace and representation through Proof Point.

Stu Krieger (48:50): “People told us how meaningful the movie was, especially in portraying a character with a disability in a respectful and authentic manner. That’s the best reward.”

Navigating Industry Challenges

Stu candidly discusses the harsh realities of the entertainment industry, including projects that fall through and creative differences that lead to cancellations. He shares an anecdote about a rejected project, emphasizing the importance of integrity in writing.

Stu Krieger (36:05): “I received a script about a kid agent that just didn’t resonate. I called my agent and said, ‘I can’t do this. It’s not right.’”

He also touches upon the failed reboot of Xenon and the lessons learned about preserving the essence and legacy of beloved franchises.

Stu Krieger (56:45): “A legacy movie should honor the original characters and their journeys. Cutting corners or altering the core essence can alienate the fan base.”

Legacy and Future Projects

Looking ahead, Stu shares his thoughts on retiring and his plans to continue writing through books and possibly a Substack newsletter. Despite stepping back from active screenwriting, his passion for storytelling remains undiminished.

Stu Krieger (59:46): “I’m excited and scared about retirement, but I plan to keep writing and sharing stories in new formats.”

Memorable Moments and Fan Interactions

Towards the end of the episode, Stu reminisces about fan events, such as screening Xenon where fans actively engaged and celebrated the films.

Stu Krieger (49:24): “At the screening, fans were singing along and participating just like at a Rocky Horror Picture Show event. It was magical.”

He expresses his gratitude for the enduring support from fans and the profound connections formed through these movies.

Closing Remarks

The hosts wrap up the episode by thanking Stu Krieger for his invaluable insights and heartfelt stories. They express their eagerness to continue exploring more of his work in future episodes.

Host 1 (60:20): “Stu, thank you so much for joining us and sharing all these incredible stories. We look forward to having you back as we continue to revisit your amazing films.”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Stu Krieger on Authenticity in Smart House
  [05:02]: “With Smart House, it was about reconfiguring relationships and underlying issues. I wanted to ensure the father and son dynamics felt real and relatable.”

• Stu Krieger on Avoiding the "Dumb Dad" Trope
  [09:02]: “My personal mandate was, I'm not going to do a dumb dad. He has to be a fully dimensional character who has his own needs and struggles.”

• Stu Krieger on Collaborating with Paul Hoen
  [26:29]: “Working with Paul was an instant love affair. We have a shorthand that makes the collaboration effortless and productive.”

• Stu Krieger on Adapting True Confessions
  [22:04]: “Adapting a diary-format novel required transforming internal thoughts into visual storytelling. We introduced the concept of a video diary to bridge this gap.”

• Stu Krieger on the Impact of Proof Point
  [48:50]: “People told us how meaningful the movie was, especially in portraying a character with a disability in a respectful and authentic manner. That’s the best reward.”

• Stu Krieger on Industry Integrity
  [36:05]: “I can’t do this. It’s not right.”

• Stu Krieger on Legacy and Reboots
  [56:45]: “A legacy movie should honor the original characters and their journeys. Cutting corners or altering the core essence can alienate the fan base.”

Conclusion

This episode of Pod Meets World offers a profound look into the creative mind of Stu Krieger, shedding light on the delicate balance between storytelling and authenticity. From crafting heartfelt characters in Smart House to navigating the complexities of adapting novels and addressing sensitive subjects in Proof Point, Stu’s experiences provide invaluable lessons for aspiring writers and passionate fans alike. As Stu transitions towards retirement, his legacy continues to inspire and shape the landscape of DCOMs, ensuring that these beloved stories remain timeless.

Transcript

[Host 1]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Host 2]

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them we can be connected here and there.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a [e-mail] or call 1-800-T-Mobile 1-800-T Mobile. See [e-mail] if you own a home.

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[Host 1]

Thank you for joining us on this Park Hopper episode of Magical Rewind. We've got One of the OG's. Friend of the show, knows where a lot of the bodies are buried. Helped to write basically most of the movies that we love. We say his name all the time. I mean we're going to be talking about Smart House. We're going to be talking about True Confessions. We're going to be talking about I can't even. I Can't even Proof Point Xenon. I'm not even. I'm gonna let him tell us his resume from now on. It's like every time because it's insane. He's the man who put the words into people's mouths in movie after movie after movie. Please help us welcome once again, Stu Krieger. Hey, welcome back. Yes.

[Commercial Voice 5]

I love this shirt.

[Host 1]

Oh, that is amazing. Well, thank you for joining. Joining us once again.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So happy to see you guys, because we have.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And we've now watched a whole bunch more of. Of the films that you've written. So many more. It feels like every week we're saying either Stu Krieger or Paul Hoen just over and over and over again.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yep.

[Host 1]

So, I mean, we just. Sabrina, should we just jump right in? Because we know we want to. We want to get to as many as we can while we have you here.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Full disclosure, the only one I haven't watched in the recent past is Proof Point, so if I'm a little fuzzy on that, I've had every intention of doing it this week. This life got too busy.

[Host 1]

I understand. So we'd like to start with Poof Point. No, I'm kidding. Well, we would love to start. So one of the fan favorites, which we knew even before going in, and one that even I'd heard of before starting this podcast because, again, I'm the old guy, so I'm going back and trying to learn. But it was in the Zeitgeist. We want to start with Smart House.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Which we recapped and which we both really enjoyed. So, I mean, I don't even know where to jump in. First of all, how did you first hear about this project and how did it take off?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. So my relationship with Disney Channel, as you guys know, started with Xenon, and I had done two films before the dcoms were a thing for them. So they knew me, they knew my work. I did The Parent Trap 2 and the Freaky Friday remake that was Shelly Long and Gabby Hoffman. So they knew me, they knew my work. That's how I got in the door for Xenon. Then we'll get to that.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

But then with Smart House, it was a project already in development. There had been a bunch of drafts, and kind of what happened for me with all the projects I did for them is either I was the only writer or the last writer. And the feather in the cap of being the last writer is it means you gave them the draft that they could greenlight and get into production on. So with Smart House, it was basically, when it came to me, it was, we love the premise, we love the setup. We love a lot of the mechanics of it. We don't feel it yet has the heart. And that's something you seem to do really well for us. So can you kind of go back and reconfigure the relationships, reconfigure some of the underlying issues of it? And one of the things that kind of shocked the heck out of me when I went back and watched it is some of the real talk between the father and son kind of blew me away in a way that I didn't fully remember it. And I was kind of amazed that Disney let me get away with it and didn't kind of pull it back and tone it down. And so that's something I'm very proud of. But I also think it's part of why the film has resonated the way it has, because so much of. Especially now that I'm on social media, I see all that thread of, oh, my God, what this meant to me as a kid or I had lost my mom or seen this relationship, or all those beautiful things I now get to see that I didn't really know in the time have been such a rewarding part of the Smart House experience.

[Host 1]

Well, that's one of the things that we talked about that really resonated with us, was the quiet moments in the movie. Because so often in DCOMs, you'll get some dcoms that have great directors, great cast. I keep bashing this movie. I don't mean to continue bashing this movie, but we keep going with dad napped and where it's just. There's no real quiet moments. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just very. It's a good excuse to get cover. Kids with slime. And again, there's a place for that in the Disney Channel, obviously.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Sure.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Absolutely.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Yeah. The thing we loved about Smart House was those moments of it was real. I mean, yes, the house was robotic, and it had all the cool kind of Disney effects. But then you had these moments of, you know, we. We. This kid not wanting to replace his mom, not wanting his dad to move on, not wanting, you know, wanting the family to just be there. And it was just such another layer of the film. Was that all you. Was any of that there when you got the original script, or was all of that kind of something that you did?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Most of it was me. I mean, again, humble brag, sure.

[Host 1]

No, of course.

[Commercial Voice 4]

But there was the whole idea of, like, using Pat and the whole montage of the 50s mom. And I loved all the parody sitcoms that they did with my three moms or whatever. But, you know, all of that. I loved how they executed the vision. But that idea of trying to learn what a mom was from that, you know, those sitcoms of the 50s, that was all stuff that I brought to it. And then out of that sprang the but what's a real mom? What does a mom really mean? And like I said, the moment that kind of blew me away was when Kevin Kilner whirls on Ryan and says, you're not the only one who lost somebody.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And it was like, dude, dude.

[Commercial Voice 5]

I know. I remember rewatching it going, whoa.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Like, I mean, because how real is that moment? And I'm sure, like, you said that the people. That is probably a moment that really stuck with kids because Disney didn't always tap into that. They, you know, it wasn't a fluff moment. It was a straight to the point, very real. And something that kids needed to hear, too, you know, because parents had a hard time talking that directly to kids as well, you know, and that. And navigating a very hard and sensitive subject, like another parent dying. This was just such a great, like, moment for it to be so real for the parent, too, not just worrying about the kid's emotion.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. And I think we touched on it last time, but I was saying that, you know, in my entire experience with the Disney Channel, my personal mandate was, I'm not going to do a dumb dad.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yes.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yep. Really. You know, we talked about that trope of dad's an idiot and totally incompetent. And so that was one thing again, in this movie that was really important to me, that he be a fully dimensional character as well and that he have a point of view and he'd be able to, you know, be kind and loving and be all those things, but still push back about. I've got my needs too.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

You know, seeing it in retrospect, that is one thing I'm very proud of.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What now? What was it like working with Lavar Burton? Was.

[Commercial Voice 6]

Were you.

[Host 1]

Did you get to collab with him at all, or.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah, I was not. I mean, kind of what my M.O. with most of the dcoms was. I would be around for the table, read around for some rehearsals, around a couple days of shooting and then dip out. Because, like, again, I think we touched on this, about my aversion to being on set.

[Host 1]

Yep.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So Lavar was amazing. I mean, he was just. He so got it. The couple meetings we had, we were very, very much on the same page. And then I had one wonderful day that I've talked to my students about so often, because I say, you will never get over the first day. You get to be on the set of something that you envision in your head, and you're going type, type, type. You know, there's screens over here and there's kitchen over here, and da, da, da, da. And so when I got to the set for the first time, he said, you want to come see the Smart House? And I was like, yeah, I do. And I had my. What she. My daughter would have been probably like 8 or 9 years old. I had her with me, and we were going from room to room and sitting in the big chair and, you know, seeing the screens and doing all that. And Levar was so wonderful about. I want to make sure you see every nook and cranny, not just where we're shooting today, because all constructed on a couple of sound stages out in Simi Valley. So getting to do that was wonderful. And like I said, we were very, very much in sync of what the movie was. And I loved how he executed it and what his vision was, but there was no kind of tug of war or conflict with any of that. Nice.

[Host 1]

That's really cool.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Were you really happy with all of the inventions of the Smart House? Like, was there anything where you went they could have done that better, or was it just like. Yes, they totally did it just as I wanted?

[Commercial Voice 4]

No, they nailed it. I think for me, the moment was when I saw the dailies of the big arm coming out and grabbing the newspaper. And again, you know, you're always very aware of their budgets and what they're going to be able to do and not do. And with that, I thought all of the effects really worked and all the big screen stuff.

[Commercial Voice 5]

And yeah, I think the only one we picked apart was with the oranges. And we're like, how is she getting the produce under the house? How is the. Where is growing it coming from?

[Host 1]

What's happening?

[Commercial Voice 5]

But you gotta remember, it's a Disney movie.

[Host 1]

It's a Disney movie.

[Commercial Voice 5]

It'll be a little bit of sparkle and pixie dust on some of this stuff. Of course.

[Host 1]

Was it. Was it a big win when you found out that Katey Seagal was going to be playing the role?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Oh, absolutely.

[Commercial Voice 5]

How did she get involved in it?

[Commercial Voice 4]

I do not remember. I mean, I'm assuming because it was not a decision I was involved in initially that it was just the casting people going, hey, let's try.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And then I got the word she's in. And it was like, yeah, she is.

[Host 1]

That's cool.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And she actually was working the day that we visited, so I got to meet her and she was in the full Pat regalia. And I have a picture somewhere of me and her with the apron and the whole smash.

[Host 1]

Oh, that's great.

[Commercial Voice 5]

That's amazing.

[Commercial Voice 4]

That was very fun then.

[Host 1]

So one of the other things we notice is that of course it's Disney. They love their synergy.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yes.

[Host 1]

So they had. There's the scene with Bewitched, the group popping up. Is that something where they come to you and say, hey, this band has to be in there some way? Or is it just write a pop band and we'll get somebody to come in and be the pop band. How does that work?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah, that's really the second choice.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Construct the scene. So there is a band involved and.

[Host 1]

Then they just go and try to find a band.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. Yep.

[Host 1]

Okay. Interesting. I always wondered if they came in like we're trying to release, trying to get this band out, make it Bewitched. But no, they just say make it a pop band and go from there.

[Commercial Voice 5]

And they just pop. Whoever they can find get to sign the contract.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Exactly. Sometimes, like with cowbells. Ally and AJ were already attached when I got involved in that project.

[Commercial Voice 5]

So yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So sometimes it worked the other way of, you know, we're doing a movie for them.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Get as familiar as you can be with what their shtick is and kind of, you know.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Right.

[Host 2]

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them we can be connected here and there.

[Host 1]

Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you.

[Host 2]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile-1-800-T Mobile.

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[Host 1]

Okay, wait. Should we stay on cow? I want to jump. Do we jump around? No, let's stay on cowbells. Let's stay on cowbow. You guys, we talked a little cowbells last time.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So curiously, again in the writing process, is this something to where already script exists? And it's like, hey, Stu, can you, can you, can you stew this cowbell script up or is this. It was okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Okay.

[Host 1]

So curiously, when you have to do something like that and you know that you've got Allie and AJ who are already Attached is when then you take a script like that, is it then, okay, I've really got to add more to the characters that they have, or is it more? I've got to really focus on just making Allie and AJ the stars that Disney wants them to be.

[Commercial Voice 4]

It was really a little bit of both. I mean, I was not terribly, terribly familiar with them before I came to the project. So then I did my due diligence and saw what I could see and saw the dynamic between them. But then it was also. I don't think we talked about this last time and stopped me if we did. But it was post 9 11. And my thing with all of these movies was always, I want to do any kind of research I can so that I have a base of knowledge. It's coming from a reality thing. How does a dairy work? How does that whole process of the pasteurization and anything they might be involved in happen? So I was nosing around and trying to get a dairy that I could tour, and I got one lined up. 911 happened. They came back and they said, one of the things that we're now paranoid about is somebody getting in and poisoning the milk supply, because that would be another terrorist. We're sorry, no outsiders can come. We can't get you clearance. We have to cancel the tour. You cannot come. So I said, okay, I understand. I'm disappointed, but is there anybody I can talk to? And the guy I got on the phone said, now, why were you coming? Initially, because I really can't tell you anything. And I said, well, I'm working on a movie for Disney for the Disney Channel. Oh, you are? Suddenly I'm dropping credits. And he goes, well, I really can't tell you anything, but what kind of questions did you have if I.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

I ended up on the phone with him for almost an hour, and every time he would say, okay, I can't really tell you that, but if I didn't tell you, this would be the answer.

[Host 1]

Okay. So they tried to help as much as was possible.

[Commercial Voice 5]

That's cool.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So I ultimately did not physically get to go, but he was really, really helpful in terms. I just had a whole page of questions, and he told me without telling me.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yeah, wow.

[Host 1]

No. So from a writing standpoint, again, you're Disney Channel usually has a pretty specific tone, we've noticed. The thing that's funny is that we've noticed that that tone has changed over time. We're watching movies now, like Prom Pact or Zombies or anything. And while there are certain tropes that they kind of hit no matter what. They've definitely gotten more adult than they were in, say, the. The mid-90s or even the late 90s. Was there something that you tried to hit in every film you did where it's kind of. It became almost your signature of. You could tell this is a st. Because this happened in every film he did. Is there a certain. I almost. I don't want to use the word Easter egg, but certain stew thing you would do for every script that you.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Wrote, there's usually some homage to previous Disney movies or Disney lore. It was very, very funny because when I did parent trap 2 for them, I was. I think we talked about this also, but just a giant, insane Hayley Mills fan. And so, like, out of my mind that I was gonna get to write a movie for her and meet her to the point we are still friends. I did that movie in 1986. I just got an email from her last week. Cause I wrote to her on her birthday in April, and she was given the update on the kids and the grandkids and all that. It's amazing. But the really funny thing was, so. Because I was such a fanatic, all of the characters in that movie are named for other roles that she played in her early Disney movies.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Her. Her boss is Walter Elias because Walt's middle name was Elias. And then when we met, I said something about it, and she goes, what? And I said, mary Grant was your character in the Castaways. Nikki Faris was your character in Moon Spinners. And she goes, oh, my God. I didn't even realize that she had forgotten it. But almost every single character in that movie is named for roles she had played in previous Disney movies.

[Host 1]

That's awesome.

[Commercial Voice 5]

So you did that along also within your dcoms that you wrote?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. There would be little drops of something that was some other.

[Commercial Voice 5]

But you gotta give us some of them.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's your favorite one? What's your favorite one?

[Commercial Voice 5]

Or Smart House that you remember?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Oh, man. I have to really think back because it was always something that was, you know, again, related to this, but an homage backwards. So I'll have to think about that one.

[Host 1]

Okay. Yeah. I think I'm so curious as to.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Know what they are, especially if you can think of one that we haven't seen yet so we can, like, look for. So cool.

[Host 1]

Oh, I think that's great.

[Commercial Voice 4]

If I can't come up with it on the spot, I'll email you after.

[Host 1]

Yes, that's right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

That works.

[Commercial Voice 5]

That's all we need. That's all we need.

[Host 1]

Okay, let's. Let's go to True Confessions.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Now, this is one of the few movies that we talked about that was based on a novel going in. So it was written in the form of a diary. How. How does that change the way you approach a script when a. It's from existing ip. Not just an existing script, but a book, and then also a book in a completely different form. How do you tackle writing a script for something like that?

[Commercial Voice 4]

A couple different things connected with that, which was a really interesting backstory at that point. I had done at least five movies for them and a producer that I had worked with on other things, and ultimately True Confessions was the first one. And then we did something for ABC Family. Oh, Going to the Map was the other one that she produced. But with this, she came to me with the book and she said, I think this would make an incredible decom. I know you have a relationship with them. Do you want to go in together and pitch it? And when I approached the executives about coming in, they said, just so you know, there have been two other sets of writers that have brought us this book. And we passed on it. We're only going to take the meeting because of our relationship with you. Come in and tell us your take. And so pressure was on. Yeah, you know, we've already passed twice, but. And then when Jana Memel and I went in with the book, I had already kind of conceived that again, we got to take what was a diary and make it active, make it visual, make it physical, make it all those things. So the idea of doing a vlog, which was a fairly new thing at that point, that True's going to do this as a video diary, and we're actually going to get to see the process rather than somebody sitting at a desk writing. That was something that really appealed to them. And then it was kind of the. That coupled with, we know you. We know what you're capable of. Let's go. So the leap of faith that, you know, like I said, they had enough trust in me at that point that were willing to make the leap.

[Host 1]

Well, yeah, because again, if they've said no twice, then it's just all based on you. I have to imagine.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Could you in any sense talk about having Shia LaBeouf as was that your. Like, kind of. This would be a great. We see this being such a great role for him. Did you bring up him at all?

[Commercial Voice 4]

That was not me. They came back to me, but came back fairly quickly because the thing with True. True is the thing that I did have done the least drafts of in my entire career anywhere, you know, Disney and beyond. Because what happened was fairly quickly they came back and somebody, you know, again, I don't know if it was Gary Marsha who initially put Shia to the project, but they said, we want Shia in this role and we've got this tiny little window between his, even Steven's seasons. We need the script quickly and then we need to be going quickly because there's where our window of opportunity is. So from first type, type to production was three drafts.

[Host 1]

Oh, geez.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And then we were on the set. So, I mean, all that happened really fast. And then the other incredible thing was I was in typical form. I was up there for the table read for the week of rehearsals, for the first couple days of shooting, I bailed and came home. And then the last week of Production is when 911 happened. They were in Toronto and the entire cast and crew ended up having to drive back across the country because there were no planes in the air for a month.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Once they realized, you know, we ain't getting home anytime soon, waiting for a flight. Yeah, they all had to do a cross country caravan, drive back to la.

[Host 1]

Now, does the process change at all when it's based on another author's book or do you still have carte blanche? I mean, how does that work? Does the original author have any kind of say in where the script goes or. No. Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. So basically what it is, they have the right to say, I'm not selling the rights to the book.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

But once the rights have been sold, have at it. Being a writer, being somebody who's published two novels, I am very respectful of the source material. But ultimately you have to look at it as that's not filmic. Or that doesn't make sense visually or how, you know, you kind of have to give yourself permission to now I have to take the essence of and the underlying heart of the material and hang on to as much of it as it can. But it has to make sense filmically. And, you know, this is a very different medium that has different demands. And that's where my fidelity now has to be. Sure.

[Commercial Voice 5]

And this was a project that you collaborated with Paul Hohen on? Yes, and I was able to work with Paul with one of the Cheetah Girls movies. We love him. We've had him on the podcast. He's amazing, you know, legend at Disney Channel, just as you are. So it's awesome that you guys are now joining forces. And wow, did it just Work on every aspect, because this movie was absolutely one of my favorites to watch.

[Host 1]

Me too. Great movie.

[Commercial Voice 5]

But can you tell me about the process of working with Paul? Because I know he really loves to, like, dive in and include everyone and, you know, rework and rework. So, I mean, you might have just had to. To get up to a certain point. But how was it working with him as he then jumped into his. His role?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Instant love affair. And again, we are still friends, you know, as you. As you guys know. I don't know if you know this part of it, but three weeks from now, I will be retiring UCR but I have done, since I've been there for 19 years, a class called the Filmmaker's Life, where I teach every other year and I bring in people from Hollywood to talk about their lives, their experiences, their careers, how they got their start. And Paul has done that class for me at least three or four times over the years.

[Host 1]

Cool.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And we're still in touch on a regular basis. Have lunch when we can. So really, it was one of the greatest collaborations of my career in terms of just came in the room and, yeah, we get each other. I like you, you like me. My wives met, our kids met, we hung out together. I mean, we really had a wonderful relationship and still do. But he was somebody who just. Same wavelength. Get it? Got it. Good. Let's go.

[Host 1]

There are some creative people that you just instantly have a shorthand with where it's just. It's like, oh, okay, brother, brother, sister. Instantly. Let's go, let's go.

[Commercial Voice 4]

I was going to say there was a couple of times during production after I was back in L. A where he would call and say, you know, we're shooting this thing tonight. I just went through it and would it be possible if we shifted this to that or There was one time where the location fell out and I forget where they were originally going to be, but we got to move it to a different place. Can you rewrite the scene tonight to make it more accommodating the new location? Buddy, I'll have it in an hour. Here you go. And, you know, wow. There's no, like, phone and fax days, so I'd have to stick it in the fax machine.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Oh, my gosh.

[Host 1]

I forgot about that. I love it.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Oh, man. If you had the bad paper, it really sucked.

[Host 1]

Oh, but it was the best. It was still magic. Like, how did I get this thing? This is incredible.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them, we can be connected here and there.

[Host 1]

Dad the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you.

[Host 2]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile- 1-800-T MOBILE.

[Commercial Voice 7]

See details@t mobile.com if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you worked so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, just call 800 for Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraxis.org Number 3030 $178,000. Average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing date hey everybody, you've gotta.

[Commercial Voice 6]

Check out McDonald's new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping. We're talking juicy and peppery breaded chicken. It's so good, it's got its own dip. The Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's creamy, sweet and spicy all at once. You'll be like dip bite, dip bite. So good. Or you can dip them in any of our sauces because it's chicken made for dipping. New McCrispy strips only at McDonald's this.

[Commercial Voice 3]

Episode is brought to you by Huggies Snug and Dry. My little guy is on the move and man does he keep us both busy. That's why it's so important for me to make sure I found a diaper that is comfy for him during all those wiggles running around and dancing it out during playtime, all while giving him the protection from leaks throughout the day. For me, Huggies Snug n Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. We parents only want the absolute best for our babies if they have to be in a diaper all day. It may as well be the softest, driest diaper possible. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection of Huggies Snug n Dry diapers. More parents choose the new Huggies Snug n Dry softness versus the leading premium diaper, Huggies. We got you, baby.

[Host 1]

Did you find that having to write for a character with an intellectual disability, do you have to approach that differently than you do any other character when you're writing for Disney?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah, and very much. Again, for me, it's important. Whatever the subject matter, whatever the people, the characters, there has to be an authenticity to it. So Jana and I went and we went to. It was like a residence home for folks with various degrees of mental disabilities and handicaps and stuff. So we went and spent a day with them, and I found people that were as close to what Shia's disability was and sat at the table and talked to them and talked to their life experience. And. Do you mind if I'm jotting notes while we're talking kind of thing? And really navigated that as carefully as I could. And so between what was in the book, which was based on the author's life experience. Yeah, the day we got to spend, you know, with folks with similar disabilities was really informative. And then the other blessing with this project was because I knew it was shy and knew what he was capable of. Yeah, there were things that I pushed in a direction of. I know he can do this. I'm worried about, you know, is it going to come off as disrespectful or in any way inauthentic? And I trusted he would get there. And of course he did.

[Host 1]

Yeah, he. He did a wonderful. I mean, he was. He was great.

[Commercial Voice 5]

He really was great. Absolutely. Did you get a chance to interact.

[Commercial Voice 4]

With him for the week? I was up there. We went out to dinner a couple times. I was like. I said I was there for the table reading, rehearsals, and hanging around. And then they did a premiere on the Disney backlot. When the movie was done, I got to see him again there, and he was great. I mean, he was really very funny, very energetic, very engaged, just lovely. And another one that, you know, for the premiere, I took my kids and he came over and I introduced them, and he was schmoozing with them.

[Host 1]

Yeah, well, especially as a child actor, he was arguably one of the best to ever do it. And that's not hyperbole. Ever. He's truly one of the best child actors that's ever existed. Obviously, his adult life, the acting's still There he's had his problems as people can, but from an acting standpoint, I mean, you watch him at 16 and almost every other actor at 16 and you just go, oh, they're working on completely different levels. So, yeah, he really took that role and made it very special. But now we're going to come to the one that you said you knew the most about. Backwards, forward, sideways. You remember everything about it. Let's talk Proof Point.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So the. It's a time travel movie that first aired on September 14, 2001. Do you remember kind of what it was like having a movie coming out so close to 9 11? I mean, what was. What was that like?

[Commercial Voice 4]

It really was. I mean, we were all still so in shell shock of what world do we now inhabit that I think everybody was clinging for anything that was a little bit positive and a little bit, you know, take your mind off it for a couple hours. So, sure, that aspect of it was very positive, but at the same time it was just that surreal. Life goes on. These things are happening. But it didn't have the same kind of celebratory launch that some of the other ones did. So I 99% sure there wasn't a screening for Xenon, Smart House, True Confessions we had on the back lot with cast and crew and did all that. I don't remember any event connected to proofpoint because of the timing of all of that.

[Host 1]

Sure, yeah. Was this also a script that you came in last or were you first on this one? You came in last on this one. So I have a question. So I'm just. Full disclosure, Proof Point was not my favorite of the films we've seen. Have you ever gotten a project and you don't have to say the name of it, but have you ever gotten a project and kind of said, I'll do what I can, but I don't know how much can be done with this one?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yes. And there was also, I mean, there was one for them and then a couple outside of them for my career where I would get it and just go, I can't make this better.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

I was secure enough and working enough that when I genuinely felt that, it was like I respectfully decline, you know, even getting involved because I can't make it better. And I'm not somebody that's going to do the money grab and give you a half job. It's like, if I'm doing it, I'm doing it because I believe that I can put it across the finish line.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And so there was one in particular for them, where I just went, good luck.

[Host 1]

Right?

[Commercial Voice 4]

And like I said, a couple outside things. There was one project, if I could digress for just a second, please. Project. And they called and they said, we bought the rights to this for a million dollars. We think it needs a page one rewrite. Will you take a crack at it? So already I'm like, you paid a million dollars for what now? Yeah. Then I'm reading the script and it is about a kid who becomes like an 8 or 9 year old who becomes a Hollywood agent.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And it was like, what about this would appeal to anybody in the universe? Why is this a thing to begin with? And why did you pay a million dollars for it? It's not funny. It's not cute. If he's the best kid agent in the world, I hate this kid.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Kids won't want to watch it. Adults won't want to watch it.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Who did you buy this for?

[Commercial Voice 5]

Kids at an age are not going, you know, one day I want to.

[Host 1]

Be an agent, a power agent. Oh, did they ever shoot it?

[Commercial Voice 4]

No.

[Host 1]

Oh, thank God.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And they had paid a million dollars for the spec script. And that was one where I finished reading it and I called my agent and I said, I can't do this. There's no version of this where anybody in the world would want to see this. And I called them back and I said, you know, you guys, I just don't get it. I don't get. The best version of this is. I don't get it. Good luck to you.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Never heard about it again.

[Host 1]

Did the movie that you. Kind of. The Same thing happened for Disney. Did they make that movie without you or did they not make that movie without you?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Never got made. Okay.

[Host 1]

We don't even need a title.

[Commercial Voice 5]

I was just curious if we pull in our number one Hail Mary and he says, we probably cannot do this. It's probably like a no go.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And it's really interesting because I honestly wish I had had the opportunity to see poofpoint before we spoke because I feel the same way it is when I list, you know, for seeing some of the social media stuff. When I get asked to name your top five Disney movies that you wrote. It ain't ever there.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 5]

You know, I think, I think one of the biggest thing that stands out about proofpoint, especially when you have something like Smart House, is those, like, supposed to be really cool gadgets and they're scientists and the way that things happen, what was done on set, it wasn't the set that you had for Smart House. It wasn't that caliber.

[Host 1]

There was a cheese factor to it is what she's trying to say.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yes. Thank you, Will. Thank you. It just wasn't that caliber. So it's like when you're going into that fantasy land and the set just doesn't. It was not. The set was hard to like because it was so big and you were seeing it and it was everywhere and they were trying to make you believe certain things that just like it was the production and you just.

[Host 1]

It was also the. Some great actors doing some really terrible fake guitar playing. Yeah, that's one of the things that really stuck out to us. It's like, wow, they're not even faking guitar playing very well.

[Commercial Voice 5]

They know how to do it.

[Host 1]

So from your past growing up and we might have touched on this a little bit last time, but Xenon Smart House proof point. There seems to be almost an underlying sci fi fantasy kind of vibe to a lot of the stuff you do. Were you a sci fi fantasy fan growing up?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Not at all.

[Host 1]

Really.

[Commercial Voice 5]

I think I remember this actually from the last time.

[Host 1]

Maybe. I'm asking again because I'm shocked really.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Because you wanted to be so.

[Host 1]

I still wanted to. All fantasy right here. It's all fantasy back here. Not really. Nothing growing up.

[Commercial Voice 4]

No. It's really interesting because you know I've talked about part of my love of the Disney movies of my era were the reason that I felt like I was the right person to be the dcom go to guy. But all of those were like the absent minded professor, Swiss Family Robinson, Parent Trapp. Those were the things that were really my bread and bones in terms of Disney was on the seven year reissue cycle when you didn't have DVDs and the rest of it and any opportunity to see those movies. I was always there. And when they would run on the wonderful world of Disney front row center, I was there. But so much of like the adventure fantasy play of things like Swiss Family Robinson and then the fantasy of the Parent Trap coupled with my crush on Haley besides, you know, all of those things, that was really my go to much more than. I wasn't a Star Trek fan. I wasn't.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. That's so funny. There was that the. The fantasy adventure I guess is the way you're saying like the Swiss Family Robinson, like the way they did that. It's. It's essentially it's adventure at Disneyland as opposed to Tomorrowland at Disneyland which. Which really had more of the vibe of kind of the earlier Disney lifestyle. For, for lack of a better term, it was that kind of, occasionally it would be almost something Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. But other than that it was really that kind of family, Swiss Family Robinson kind of stuff.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. And if you really look at my over it's family's at the center of all of them.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And you know, and, and that's the thing that I know that's the thing I'm most comfortable with with as I've talked about with you know, my son is four years older than my daughter and if you watch the evolution of movies, it's almost always an older brother with a younger sister. That was the stuff we talked about before of opening the door and listening to them and you know, closing it and going back to writing. But that, so the big like the through line for me was always those Disney movies that I grew up and there was an element of wish fulfillment. There was always the kid empowerment because they had the opportunity to whether it was getting the parents back together and Parent Trap or you know, building this incredible treehouse and racing your ostrich in Swiss Family Robinson.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

You know, all of those things had a wish fulfillment coupled with the family at the center of it.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

If you watch, you know, my canon of Disney movies that's almost central to all of them as well.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them we can be connected here and there.

[Host 1]

Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you.

[Host 2]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile-1-800-T Mobile. See details@t mobile.com if you own a.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. The value you can tap to fund other life goals.

[Commercial Voice 1]

In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about 170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you.

[Commercial Voice 2]

They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you worked so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards.

[Commercial Voice 2]

To learn more, just call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Rocket Mortgage LLC. Licensed in 50 states. NMLS consumeraccess.org Number 30 30, 178,000. Average equity is based on internal Rocket mortgage servicing dates.

[Commercial Voice 6]

Hey everybody, you've gotta check out McDonald's new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping. We're talking juicy and peppery breaded chicken. It's so good, it's got its own dip, the Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's creamy, sweet and spicy all at once. You'll be like, dip, bite, dip bite. So good. Or you can dip them in any of our sauces because it's chicken made for dipping. New McCrispy strips only at McDonald's.

[Commercial Voice 3]

This episode is brought to you by Huggies Snug and Dry. My little guy is on the move and man, does he keep us both busy. That's why it's so important for me to make sure I found a diaper that is comfy for him during all those wiggles, running around and dancing it out during playtime, all while giving him the protection from leaks throughout the day. For me, Huggies Snug and Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. We parents only want the absolute best for our babies if they have to be in a diaper all day. It may as be the softest, driest diaper possible. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection of Huggies Snug and Dry diapers. More parents choose the new Huggies Snug n Dry softness versus the leading premium diaper Huggies. We got you, baby.

[Host 1]

Curiously, what of all of your canon, which one was the most difficult for you to write?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Oh, good question. Proofpoint had its issues in terms of because there was. I wasn't as connected to the whole situation and setup and all the rest of it. So that was a little bit of a challenge. True Confessions was the hardest in terms of I really want to get this right. There's a way where you can jump the shark in a really uncomfortable, you know, whether it's condescending or not respecting the ability of the disabled, you know, whatever those things are. It's just much more of a minefield of really, I want to get this right. I want to, you know, be fair to the characters, to the relationship. I think that was more like I really felt paying attention to every single.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Do you have a hard time with that dad? Because that dad was a jerk. Oh, man, And I know how you normally are with dads, and eventually it comes together and you. And it's all circle around, but like Billy Meyer. Yeah. Was that hard for you to go there as far as letting him take that character to be really. I mean, he really struggled. Yeah. And he really struggled with how his emotions, which I think is real. And I said that over and over again while we rewatched it. I think this is such a. It has to be hard for every single person in that house to handle. And I think it's real that the dad who has this high powered job and then also this. And. But was that hard for you? Because I know the dad was such a huge thing for you with the characters.

[Host 1]

Yeah. He wasn't a dumb dad, but he was an actor.

[Commercial Voice 5]

He wasn't a dumb dad, but he was. He really struggled. He really struggled.

[Commercial Voice 4]

I am carefully calibrating my response, and I'm thinking, I mean, because it actually was based on someone we know who had a kid with a disability that just could not accept it, could not come to terms with it, it really rocked his world in a way. And as I was calibrating my answer, it's like, he's never gonna hear the podcast. I'm good.

[Host 1]

He might be our biggest fan, Stu, but I doubt.

[Commercial Voice 4]

But he was somebody that I observed trying to come to terms with his own son, and he still really hasn't. I mean, the son is now in his 40s and it's still a day to day issue in terms of reconciling that relationship. It's hard.

[Commercial Voice 5]

So hard. I can't imagine.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. So again, it wasn't difficult in the sense that I felt a fidelity to. Right. This is hard. And, and, and not everybody gets up to speed immediately and not everybody gets, you know, gets to terms with it. And so again, to. To make it, it's just. You just adapt. You just go. It's all, you know, you roll with it. That's what life is. Didn't feel fair to anybody in the equipment. And so as long as there was some glimmer of evolution, as long as there was some, you know, opening in that window for him before the movie was over, I was okay with taking that journey.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Yeah. Yeah. I thought. I mean, it was. It made it so. Again, so many of those choices just made the situation without ever going through anything like that seem like, wow. Like just my level of empathy just kind of kept building because it was like, oh, man, there's this extra layer that you don't think about and it was just. I mean, I just feel like it just did the job perfectly. That movie was just, like, so good. So good.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And one of the things that's, you know, so gratifying, again, with the social media presence of the last couple of years is people saying, my dad and I watched that movie together, and I have a handicapped brother, and I had never seen a character like that portrayed on screen before. And then every time it was on, my dad and I would go back and watch it again and. And we would cry together, and we would. You know, it was so meaningful to us, and thank you, and, you know, those kinds of responses, which. How can it get better than that?

[Host 1]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[Commercial Voice 5]

It just does it.

[Host 1]

Incredible.

[Commercial Voice 5]

That's amazing.

[Host 1]

And finally, we need to talk a little bit this time about the shirt you're wearing about this time, Zenon, which you said might be the favorite one that you made for the channel.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But we've also heard since then that it was first thought of as a TV show.

[Commercial Voice 4]

No, it's really funny because I just did an event two weeks ago that was the most wonderful because it was a room full of just Disney Channel geeks.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And they were.

[Commercial Voice 5]

I saw the clip. I saw the Instagram clip. I pointed it up because I saved it. I saved it.

[Commercial Voice 4]

There you go. And it was so much fun because what they did is they screened the movie first, and then I did a Q and A afterwards. But all through the movie, they were yelling at the screen and they were talking back, and every time it was.

[Host 1]

Like Rocky Horror Picture show, but for xenon 100%.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And then, like, the first time she makes goo goo eyes at Greg across the room, and they're all going.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Oh, that's so fun.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah, it was really fun. And then they were all singing zoom, zoom, zoom at the end, and everybody stomping and clapping and singing along. So the question you just asked came up that night as well.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

But what the evolution was, was it was based on the kids book that I think I told you last time that I pitched Eloise at the plaza on the space station.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

That's why I got the job, wrote the movie. The movie was a huge success for them to the point of, again, gotta brag. But when they had a party celebrating the first hundred movies, Garry Marsh got up at the beginning of it, and he said, when people talk to me about dcoms, most people assume it's about High School Musical. And he said, it's actually not. The two movies I get asked about the most are Xenon and Smart House. Yeah, you do.

[Host 1]

Those are mine. Thank you very much. Those are mine.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Oh, man.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So anyway, because it did so well, the sequel was ordered pretty quickly. We did the sequel. Then the third movie was supposed to be a feature film.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Okay, wow.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Again, part of the reason that that movie is not great directly to your point, Sabrina, about Pooh's point. If you look at Z3, it looks like a feature film shot on a Disney Channel budget. And so a lot of the effects are really cheesy. It was really. They were down in South Africa and they're on the beach one night and there's like this, you know, windstorm basically and like the sand is hitting them in the face. They're trying to get to the scene.

[Commercial Voice 5]

It's just like legitimate, like crew guys with buckets of sand.

[Commercial Voice 4]

The wind going. And they get have enough time or budget to postpone or whatever. But it really looks like a feature shot on a Disney Channel budget because it was conceived as a feature. It was supposed to be a collaboration between at the time Hollywood Pictures, which was a Disney division feature, and the channel. And they got into a turf war pissing contest over who had the ultimate buck stops here with the script thing. And they became this huge tug of war. And Disney Channel was, it's our property, we developed it, we get the final say. And they're like, but we're the feature division, we get the final say. And eventually they went, we're going to agree to disagree, take your movie and go home. And at one point it was like, well, we're this committed, we're making it as a Disney Channel movie, but we don't have enough time to do a full on rewrite. Oh no.

[Host 1]

So was it ever going to be a television show? Were they ever talking about it? Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So all that happened and then I don't know the timing. Somewhere within the next couple months, I got a call from Suzanne DePass and Suzanne Costin, who were the producers of the three movies. And they said, we have great news. We've been picked up to series. You're the one of the executive producers and head writer of the show. We've got. I forget if the initial order was 12 episodes or 20, whatever it was, but we have an order for this many episodes of the show. Come on in tomorrow morning for a production meeting so we could start to talk about. Because we had pitched, here's how it would play out as a series. And the idea was going to be that Xenon was sent down to Earth to run a Space Camp to train the kids who are going to be going to space.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And part of that was. So it was much more sustainable on a series budget to not have to face all the time and doing all that.

[Host 1]

We're on Earth. Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So we sold that. That's what they bought. That's what we were doing. Come in Friday morning for a production meeting. Before I ever got to the production meeting, I got a call that said the series has been canceled. And it's like, wait, what happened? We were excited yesterday. And this is when I'm always talking to my students about, you never get to be happy in show business, but.

[Host 1]

Anyway, you can play a happy character. That's about it.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Because they were the Disney Channel cheap. They did not have any kind of holding deal with Kirsten. She, in the interim, signed a contract with General Hospital, where she has now been for 20 years.

[Host 1]

Yeah, she's still there. It's like she's done 8,000 episodes.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. But she had signed the General Hospital contract, and they said we could recast, but she's so identified with the role, and people so love her in the role. We're not going to recast. We're not going to do it. We're scrubbing the series.

[Host 1]

And that was it. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, that's the worst.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah. So if they had had a holding deal, if they had had a second position deal, if they had it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 5]

All things that they, I'm sure, learned lessons of. Because when we talk to people about Hannah Montana, you know, a lot of them that the hard part was not Hannah Montana, the movie. It was. What was the movie we did that was a TV show that they turned into a movie. Disney ended up having to. They, for whatever reason, had to get a whole new writing crew. And some of the actors had a hard time with that because they're.

[Host 1]

Oh, no, that was Hannah Montana.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Was that Hannah Montana?

[Host 1]

Don't you remember? Yeah, because the writers from Hannah Montana didn't then write the movie from Hannah Montana, which is why they were like, okay, that didn't seem to really have the same vibe.

[Commercial Voice 7]

Wizards.

[Host 1]

Yeah, maybe it was also wizards. That's. It was two wizards. Yeah, yeah.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Different team that made it a movie. And it was like the heart and the essence of what had been built, you know, and with you with that franchise, because it's not the same people that were doing it. So the characters were missing a lot that the actors could feel it. You know, the producers or whoever else was around that didn't get replaced. Like, that's such a big deal. And it is almost worth, like, taking the, I would say, budget cut and whether it doesn't look as good, but, like, the heart and the essence has to be there. You cannot just, like, throw away characters and things that matter within the franchise and the brand that's being built. You just can't.

[Commercial Voice 4]

I will give you the underlying to that. I always have to, like, start. Am I going to get in trouble? But what do I care? But at the hundredth movie party, the head of development came up to me and he said, oh, my God, I'm so glad you're here tonight. We're trying to reboot Xenon. And so this was, you know, a decade beyond the third movie, which maybe even longer, but we're trying to reboot the franchise. I'm so happy you're here. Do you have any ideas? We've met with a bunch of writers not working so far. Will you come in and pitch us something? So it was. I can date it. Because it was at this time that Creed was just coming out.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 4]

And I said, what you have to do is a legacy movie. Because they what their idea was to have a new kid playing Xenon. And I said, don't do that. Yeah, but do the legacy handoff movie like Creed did with Rocky. To Creed, where Xenon's now the teacher on the space station. She's got to deal with a kid who's the mirror image of her at that age. Suddenly she's in the Commander Plank authority role, trying to deal with this rapscallion that's her younger self. And then if that works, you can take that character and give her as many movies as you want.

[Host 1]

Great.

[Commercial Voice 4]

You need that transition. Legacy.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Hand the torch movie.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And now pass the torch movie.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Exactly. And now, you know, it's whatever other gas the new scene on is, you know, now Noble's running with the torch, whatever it is. Yeah. So that's what I pitched. And the two executives in the room were like, oh, my God, that's wonderful. Great. We'll get back to you. They took it. Their boss, for whatever reason, they passed. So again, I'm out. It's good. God bless you. My life is fine. Right.

[Host 1]

Go do your thing.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Maybe six months later, the original producers depass and cost and call me and they say, as you know, they're trying to reboot the franchise. They hired this husband and wife team. They have a script that we're really, really unhappy with. Would you, off the record, read it for us and give Us. Any thoughts that you have? Xenon was a clinically depressed 13 year old. They were going to do just a complete remake, not a reboot in any way. But now the Xenon character was massively depressed because she'd been living in space too long and deprived of all this. And I read the script and I called him and I said, are you kidding me?

[Host 1]

Is this a joke?

[Commercial Voice 4]

There is not one thing, this, that has any of the energy, the spirit, the love, the, you know, whatever. There's no Xenon in this script at all. And they go, well, you know, we didn't really think so either, but what would you do? And I said, I would dip out. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Good luck to you.

[Commercial Voice 7]

Wow.

[Host 1]

And is that what they did?

[Commercial Voice 4]

That's what I did. I don't know what they did, but it never happened.

[Host 1]

Oh, man.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Well.

[Host 1]

Oh, God. Okay, well, hey, everybody takes it a different route, I guess. A clinically depressed Xenon. It's called Xenon. Okay, so finally, two quick questions. One, did you know that NASA used Cetus Lapidus in an Instagram post?

[Commercial Voice 4]

No.

[Host 1]

Yes, apparently they did.

[Commercial Voice 4]

So, Katy Perry thing or. No, it wouldn't have been with it.

[Host 1]

No, I think it's well before. Well before that. So, yeah, I think NASA has used Cetus Lepidus.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Nice.

[Host 1]

It's been to space, apparently on Instagram. And the second thing I'd like to ask is, is will you come back again? Because we've now we still have Xenon, the Sequel, Z3 and Freaky Friday and Phantom of the Megaplex.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

To watch. So when we do those four, will you come back for. For another, another interview, please?

[Commercial Voice 4]

100%. It's okay. Good fun with you guys.

[Host 1]

Are you looking forward to retiring?

[Commercial Voice 4]

It's funny, I have quoted to several people. There is a line in into the woods from Little Red Riding who's. Who's. When she encounters a wolf, she says, I'm excited and scared.

[Host 1]

There you go.

[Commercial Voice 4]

That's exactly what's happening. With the impending retirement. There's a lot of things I want to do, a lot of things I'm looking forward to. But I have worked for 51 straight years. A lot of my identity, a lot of my big fat ego is all tied into.

[Host 1]

Well, you're still going to write though, right?

[Commercial Voice 4]

Yes. Yeah, actually, a couple different book projects and a possible substack idea that's floating about.

[Host 1]

Okay, very cool.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Definitely be doing that. And we could talk more about that next time.

[Host 1]

Okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us again and giving us all the awesome stories about how all these amazing movies were made and they couldn't have been done without you. So, Stu, thank you.

[Commercial Voice 5]

So many of them to talk to you.

[Commercial Voice 4]

Like I said, just always a pleasure with you guys. So I so appreciate it.

[Host 1]

And we'll see you next time.

[Commercial Voice 4]

All right, take care.

[Host 1]

Thank you, Stu. Bye. Oh, God, I love the stories that he tells and the things that he's like. I probably shouldn't say this, but. Ah, screw it. I'm just kidding.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Well, yeah, I'm just gonna tell you what's he got to lose. Like, he's just like, you know, awesome. It's true. Like, at some point, you do have to, like, not always sugarcoat what the industry does and how things work, how things get. How things get built, how things get taken down, how things get pulled. You know how it is. That's just the reality of the business. And.

[Host 1]

And how people. There's a. There's also a lot of times when people wanted to find the, quote, next big hot thing. And so to do that, they'll get rid of the thing that's worked the entire time to get them there. It's like the equivalent of, you know, you've. You've played a certain way. Now you're halftime of the super bowl and you're going to change everything. You're going to do and you're going to hope to win. It's like, yeah, right. You've got.

[Commercial Voice 4]

You.

[Commercial Voice 5]

What are you doing?

[Host 1]

Yeah, exactly. So. Oh, man, what a great interview. Thank you so much again, Stu, for joining us. And thank you because I know he's going to join us again. We've got many more to watch.

[Commercial Voice 5]

We've watched so many of his and we.

[Host 1]

So many. Him and Paul, we could just have the two of them on. We should just sit back. It should just be magical. Rewind with Paul Hoen and Stu Krieger, and that would be it.

[Commercial Voice 5]

And I love it. Like I said, I watched. I came up on my feed of him at this. This event that he went to recently, and he's just like the cutest guy. And they asked him, where does Z Lupitas come from? And it's just so, like, you could see, especially with that franchise, because he built it from the ground up.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Commercial Voice 5]

Is like his. He. It's his baby. He loves it. He is in it. He loves wearing the shirts. He loves repping it, you know, it's great. It's awesome.

[Host 1]

It's so great to hear what A what? A writer. What a guy. What a response. Hey, if you're a dcom person, he's responsible for a lot of your favorite lines. I can tell you that right now. So thank you everybody so much for joining us. Join us next time. Over on the other feedback where we're doing a little movie called Cheetah Girls 2. Or in France Cheetah Girls duh is what I think it was called.

[Commercial Voice 5]

We were in Spain so I would have been.

[Host 1]

Okay, so it would have been Cheetah Girls dose then, which is great. But I'm saying in France it was Cheetah Girls. That's just the way it was. In Germany it was Cheetah Girls. Svi, thank you very much. This is me being able to count to 10 in several languages. But yes, join us over there and thank you again. Stuff. What an interview. And we will see you next time. Bye bye.

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Tucson is a city that stays with you. The food here isn't just a meal, it's a legacy. And whether it's the kick of a chiltepin, which is a very hot pepper. For those of you who don't know or enjoying a Sonoran hot dog after a night out on the town, every dish has a story to tell, and beyond the culinary journey, each neighborhood offers a glimpse into a rich tapestry of cultures blending into the Sonoran Desert. Tucson isn't just a getaway, it's a journey into heritage and a community that feels like home. Learn [e-mail] Viva.

[Host 1]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.