Pod Save America – "Donald Trump, Empath in Chief" (Dec 16, 2025)

Hosts: Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Tommy Vietor
Guest: Jake Tapper

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the tumultuous political landscape of late 2025, brimming with shocking violence, political infighting, and cultural dislocation. The hosts discuss the government's response to recent tragedies, analyze MAGA world discord and right-wing conspiracy theories, reflect on Democratic 2028 chatter, and feature an extended conversation with CNN’s Jake Tapper about the media industry, national security, and the legacy of the War on Terror. Throughout, the tone is informal, darkly ironic, and occasionally exasperated—characteristic of Pod Save America.

Main Topics and Highlights

1. A Tragic Weekend & U.S. Government Response

(Segment begins ~02:09)

• Host Recap: The show opens with a round-up of horrifying news:
  • Three Americans (including two Iowa National Guard soldiers) killed in Syria during a counterterrorism mission.
  • Trump promises “retaliation,” but has no clear answer on the U.S. presence in Syria.
    • Jon Favreau (06:27): "He didn't really have a good answer for that when someone asked him in the Oval as well."
  • Mass shooting at Brown University leaves two dead and nine injured. Some survivors were also present at previous mass shootings.
    • Tommy Vietor (05:06): "We have failed these kids over and over and over again. It is fucking horrifying."
• FBI Director Kash Patel’s Role:
  • Patel tweets prematurely about suspects—again as in past incidents—leading to misidentification and public panic.
    • Jon Favreau (04:00): "The idea that we should have the FBI director live tweeting through active investigations, no need. No need whatsoever… It's just this intense need for, like, social validation online from the head of our most important national law enforcement agency…"

2. Antisemitic Hanukkah Massacre in Sydney, Australia

(~06:32)

• Attack: 15 killed, including a rabbi and 87-year-old Holocaust survivor who shielded his wife. The shooting exposes failures of local authorities and growing antisemitism.
  • Jon Lovett (08:34): "The Executive Council of Australian Jewry had a statistic that 37,000 antisemitic incidents in Australia have occurred since October 7. That is five times the number… than were in the decade before."
  • Jon Favreau (09:49): "It's a scary time for a lot of Jews who are worried about this every day."
• Online Radicalization: The hosts note a generational—not just partisan—increase in conspiratorial and antisocial thinking.
• JD Vance’s Reaction: He blames immigration for rising antisemitism, providing no data and suggesting anti-immigrant scapegoating.
  • Jon Lovett (11:19): "JD Vance has still not said a word about Nick Fuentes, a vile antisemite of growing stature on the far right…"

Tommy Vietor (12:46): "I have bottomless contempt for politicians who take a crisis or an evil event like this and say, actually the solution is my personal political project or hobby horse."

3. Donald Trump’s Appalling Response to Rob Reiner’s Murder

(~15:24)

• Incident: Rob Reiner and his wife are murdered by their son. President Trump posts a callous Truth Social message blaming Reiner’s “Trump Derangement Syndrome” for his death.
  • Host reactions: All express disbelief; Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene actually criticize Trump publicly.
  • Jon Favreau (17:40): “Hey, do you feel sympathy when terrible things happen to people that are not on your team? …Most people pass it, and then the loudest people online often struggle with it. That’s what we see—including the President.”

Jon Lovett (18:34): "A sick, deranged, sociopathic response that official White House accounts also reposted."

• Political Fallout: Dissent is more visible within Republican ranks, suggesting possible erosion of Trump’s dominance.
  • Tommy Vietor (21:05): "There's like cracks in the MAGA base. And then every time it kind of rains and it fills up, it like, erodes a little bit more."

4. MAGA World in Disarray

(~22:12)

• Growing Base Discontent: Reporting highlights base dissatisfaction with Trump’s priorities (too much foreign policy, cost-of-living failures, cozying with billionaires).
  • Tommy Vietor (22:48): "I think it's real, I think it's consequential… Odds are things are going to get worse, not better, with the economy this coming year… and it shows."
• MAGA Media Drama: After the assassination of Charlie Kirk, media figures jockey for influence. Candace Owens spreads wild conspiracy theories (supposed French/Israeli involvement), launching bitter intra-right feuds.

Tommy Vietor (29:42): "I think MK Ultra made an appearance too… She does huge numbers… people watch the stuff and they believe it."

• Hosts reflect on Internet radicalization and audience fragmentation.
  • Jon Favreau (32:07): "The most extreme voices gain a bigger audience. But… being extreme either by self-selection or by algorithm then exposes you to more extreme things."

5. Democratic Party: 2028 Speculation and DNC Winter Meetings

(~36:52)

• Kamala Harris and Newsom: Anxious Democratic speculation about the 2028 field is underway. Kamala’s book tour and rhetoric analyzed as possible campaign prep. Gavin Newsom is identified as the "front-runner," with praise for his base-building actions and media savvy.
  • Tommy Vietor (43:16): "He's done more to improve his image with the base of the Democratic Party than anyone else by a landslide."
• **Discussion about contenders like JB Pritzker, Josh Shapiro, approaches for establishing policy vision, and debate over “head vs. heart” voting dynamics.
  • Jon Favreau (48:07): "One thing he [Pritzker] said that I thought was interesting… because we didn't have a primary in 2024, we really didn't get the vision shaping that would have happened if we were switching between candidates."

6. AI, News Media, and the Washington Post’s Risky Bet

(~48:47)

• AI-Generated Podcasts: The hosts dissect the Post’s buggy, error-prone rollout of customizable, AI-generated news podcasts, noting the tension between technology and journalistic standards.
  • Jon Favreau (50:02): "A lot of times what we describe as the threat of AI is actually the threat of the people in charge of the AI."
  • Tommy Vietor (51:25): "Now, some of the errors they referenced were like mispronunciations which boy, if that's a problem, don't listen to my shows."
• Concerns: They note these tools are only useful because actual journalists and creative humans do the initial work.
  • Jon Favreau (53:06): "But also too like all of these AI, this kind of an AI product is predicated on a world in which most things are made by people. And this is a synthesis of that human work."

Jake Tapper Interview Highlights

(Begins ~55:53)

A. Media Industry Turmoil and Trump’s CCN Attacks

• CNN’s Fate: Tapper explains the precarious corporate situation as Paramount or Netflix may acquire CNN’s parent company. Trump directly called for new ownership at CNN, injecting presidential influence into the process.
  • Jake Tapper (57:36): "It’s just all unprecedented… This is the time for conservatives to say that’s not appropriate. ...Now weighing in on a potential merger that his Justice Department and the FCC and others are supposed to objectively assess."
  • Tapper warns: Foreign investment (from MBS, Saudi PIF, Emiratis, Qataris) is a major concern for journalistic independence.

B. Pentagon and White House Media Restrictions

• Press Crackdown: Tapper describes how the Pentagon is locking out journalists, replacing them with loyalists, and criminalizing unapproved reporting.
  • Jake Tapper (64:37): "...opening the door to the Pentagon being able to label a journalist who reports anything they don't like, a security risk."
• White House Press Pool: He’s less worried about including “new media” than about excluding mainstream outlets; he criticizes a lack of questioning from officials who only appear on friendly platforms.

C. "Race Against Terror" and the Legacy of the War on Terror

• Book Origins: Tapper’s new book follows the pursuit and prosecution of an al Qaeda terrorist, reflecting on post-9/11 panic, Obama's attempts to close Gitmo, and the trade-offs of Article III courts vs. military commissions.
  • Jake Tapper (72:32): "And one of the dads [at a birthday party]… starts telling me this incredible story. He's an assistant U.S. attorney… And then this guy walks up to an Italian [on a refugee boat]… says, I got [my bullet wound] fighting Americans in Afghanistan..."
• Host commentary: Obama’s failed push to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a regular court led to years of military tribunal delays.
  • Tommy Vietor (76:22): "We lost our fucking minds… Obama was forced to shift the trial from US court systems to a military commission… KSM hasn't even gone to trial yet."
• Bottom Line:
  • Tapper (81:49): “The good news is, as a journalist, I don’t actually have to land anywhere. I could just, like, report what’s true.”
  • Tapper’s view: Trying terrorists in US courts has succeeded in over 300 convictions; military detention didn’t always work out.

D. Reflections on Trump, Drugs, and New War Justifications

• Drug War Drift: Tapper and Vietor question the legality and morality of conducting drone strikes on drug traffickers, expanding “forever war” logic.
  • Jake Tapper (92:09): “…the legal argument is for all the strikes… they are killing Americans with drugs, therefore they're terrorists, and therefore we can kill them…”
  • Both hosts are deeply critical of this drift and its consequences.

E. Age, Decline, and Presidential Fitness

• Biden’s Withdrawal & Trump’s Decline: Tapper discusses his co-authored book "Original Sin," the debate about Biden's age, and whether/who in the press is holding Trump appropriately accountable for similar lapses.
  • Jake Tapper (95:41): "But beyond that, I don't know anybody who thinks that he [Biden] could be president right now and all the way through 2029 in his current state…"
  • Tapper asserts he covers Trump’s declining faculties robustly—contrary to criticism from some Democrats.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "We have failed these kids over and over and over again. It is fucking horrifying."
  – Tommy Vietor on mass shootings and repeat survivors (05:06)

• "A sick, deranged, sociopathic response that official White House accounts also reposted."
  – Jon Lovett, on Trump’s statement after Rob Reiner’s death (18:34)

• "There’s like cracks in the MAGA base… You can feel it happening. There’s less fear of him. Courage begets courage."
  – Tommy Vietor on unusual Republican dissent toward Trump (21:05)

• "J.D. Vance has still not said a word about Nick Fuentes, a vile antisemite of growing stature on the far right..."
  – Jon Lovett (11:19)

• "Being extreme either by self selection or by algorithm then exposes you to more extreme things… that pulls you further and further online and more and more outside of the real world."
  – Jon Favreau, on the radicalization of media figures and influencers (32:07)

• "Foreign ownership… the Saudis, the Emiratis, and the Qataris… we know what Mohammed bin Salman, the crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, thinks about independent journalism or critical journalism because he has had a journalist killed according to the CIA."
  – Jake Tapper on foreign money and press freedom (61:21)

• "…if the case can be tried in criminal court, those have… proved effective. More than 300 terrorists have been convicted and put in prison."
  – Jake Tapper, on the success rate of Article III court terrorism prosecutions (85:08)

Key Takeaways

• Trump’s empathy gap and MAGA “cracks” are exposed by his bizarre, cruel reactions to tragedy and increasing Republican pushback.
• Mass shootings and antisemitic violence dominate a landscape of national fear, bureaucratic incompetence, and political blame-shifting.
• MAGA media and influencer world is riven by paranoia, conspiracy, and public infighting—reducing its overall political effectiveness as narratives spiral out of control.
• Democrats are in early 2028 maneuvering mode, with rhetorical skirmishing and attempts to define what the post-Biden era will look like.
• AI in journalism raises deep concerns about credibility and editorial gatekeeping even as consumers seek more personalized information streams.
• The media industry is under existential stress – with corporate power plays, political interference, and foreign money threatening the future of established institutions like CNN.
• The “forever war” logic persists, from the legal ambiguity of post-9/11 terrorism prosecutions to the shaky rationales for new military interventions in Latin America.

Structure & Tone

• The conversation is brisk, loaded with gallows humor and baffled exasperation at the dysfunction and cruelty of the moment.
• Panelists call out hypocrisy across the political spectrum, but reserve particular scorn for performative or cynical politicians.
• Quotes are often biting, conversations jump from hard news to media criticism to meta-reflection on democracy and radicalization.

Recommended for

• Listeners who want to understand both the hard news and the cultural undercurrents of today’s political brawls.
• Anyone interested in the intersection of politics, media, and the transformations shaping both parties as 2028 looms.

End of Summary.