Pod Save America: "Meet Democrats' Go-To Trump Stand-In"

Date: January 2, 2026
Guests: Philippe Reines with Jon Lovett
Theme: How to prepare for and beat Donald Trump in debates—with insights from the man who played Trump in Democratic debate preps.

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between Jon Lovett and Philippe Reines—the longtime Hillary Clinton aide known for his legendary role as Donald Trump’s stand-in during debate preparations for both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. Reines shares his process for embodying Trump, stories from behind the scenes of debate prep, lessons learned, and practical strategies for engaging with Trump on the debate stage and in political messaging.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Becoming "Trump": How Reines Got the Role

• Origin Story ([03:05]):
  • Philippe Reines explains he was tapped by speechwriter Megan Rooney in 2016:

    "She said, you've been practicing for this your whole life. You just didn't know it. Which was, you know, accurate but backhanded." — Philippe Reines [03:22]

  • Reines always had a penchant for irreverence, understanding New York tabloid media, and the adversarial nature of political comms work, making him a natural Trump proxy.

2. The Method: Getting Into Character

• Empathy for Trump’s Perspective ([04:12], [04:42]):
  • Reines discusses his ability to "assume the perspective of someone, no matter how horrible it is," comparing it to an FBI criminal behaviorist.
  • He emphasizes he could never pull off being Mitt Romney: the key is aligning the right actor with the right role.
• Physical Method ([08:59]):
  • Reines went all-in on physical mimicry: McDonald’s binging, lift shoes, heavy makeup, Trump watch and cufflinks.

    "I would, in the months leading up to it, just three, four nights a week, have, you know, two Big Macs, a shake, large fries. And I put on, I think, 34 pounds." — Philippe Reines [09:35]

3. Dissecting Trump's Debate Style

• Plainness as (False) Honesty ([06:25]-[08:51]):
  • Reines breaks down what makes Trump so effective and difficult for traditional politicians:

    "His language was very unique... because he says something so plainly, or whatever you want to describe came across as honesty...The two that people walked away from describing Trump more than anything were honesty and strength. And obviously, he's the world's biggest liar, but the honesty came from just speaking plainly." — Philippe Reines [07:21]

  • Contrasts Trump's answers ("It wasn't crazy. I'm 100% right...I'm going to build a wall. 30ft...") to the stilted, verbose politician responses.
  • This style “became a liability” for candidates who “are trained to think before they speak.”

4. Comparing Debate Preps: Hillary Clinton vs. Kamala Harris

• Similarities ([12:08]):
  • Both Clinton and Harris were serious, diligent, and receptive to critique during prep—even amid the exhausting demands of campaigning.
  • Each had to “re-tool” from policy-heavy communication to quick, nimble comebacks suited to Trump’s approach.
  • Example: Clinton realized the power of Trump “naming someone” rather than citing technical details ([13:02]).
• Differences & 2020 vs. 2024 ([11:54], [12:08]):
  • Trump and the context changed, but the challenge—getting candidates out of a senator/governor mindset—remained constant.
  • With Harris, Reines notes, "She's not Hillary Clinton, and Trump in 2024 is not the same as Trump in 2016," but the essence of prep was "much less different than I would have thought." ([12:08])

5. The Psychological Game: Managing Trump

• Predictability and Manipulation ([13:52]):
  • Trump is "the most predictable human being on God's green earth. You can easily plot it out...If you want him to lose his shit, you can time it."
  • Example: Biden provoking Trump over golf, demonstrating how candidates can “reroute him.”

6. Behind-the-Scenes Moments

• Biden’s Awkward Call to Harris Pre-Debate ([14:52]):
  • Jon Lovett recounts a reported story where Biden's call right before Harris’ debate “distracted” her but Reines believes "she did great. So I don’t think it knocked her off of her game" ([15:36]).
  • Praises Harris’ prep and credits session leader Karen Dunn for effective last-minute psychological support.

7. Lessons from Losing (Despite Winning Debates)

• Do Debates Really Matter? ([16:42]-[18:43]):
  • Though Clinton and Harris “won the debates,” Democrats lost both elections.
  • Reines:

    "You'll never hear anyone again say, do debates matter? Because clearly a bad debate does matter...But Trump got beat at least two out of three times against Hillary...Kamala beat him like a drum." ([17:18])

  • On Biden-Trump debates:

    "Covid is the only fact checker that has ever been successful with him. He couldn't tell us something that wasn't true. Covid was too obvious." ([17:56])

8. Countering Trump in 2026 & Beyond

• Strategy Advice ([18:46]-[21:59]):
  • Biggest lesson: Don't underestimate Trump's ability to self-sabotage and let reality—like Covid or inflation—fact-check him.

  • "Donald Trump is doing what Donald Trump does best, which is what he did in 2017-2019, which is sabotage himself. Now, that doesn't argue for us to just sit on our hands and hope that that happens again. But we do in some sense have to get out of his way." — Philippe Reines [18:56]

  • Don't let Trump "raise your blood pressure" with his bluster. Watch or read him less, focus on where he's “getting killed.”
  • On Republican vulnerability:

    "He's vulnerable. I would not want to be a Republican running for Congress this year. And as long as we don't become...the greater of two evils, which apparently is what we were in 2024, we can do really well." — Philippe Reines [21:42]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I had just had a Trump in me that hadn't been released yet." — Philippe Reines [03:49]
• “My presence does irritate her [Hillary Clinton]. That’s such an interesting part of your dynamic over a long time.” — Jon Lovett [05:01]
• On prep: “I watched each [2015 primary debate] three times...third time, I did it with the audio off, just to watch the gesticulations and the facial features.” — Philippe Reines [06:41]
• “It's damn straight and it's damn honest. You could call it straight talking. It might be stupid talking, but it's also straight talking.” — Philippe Reines [08:32]
• “Trump is...an amoeba. He's just a single cell entity that is looking for food, for nourishment, and you can easily reroute him.” — Philippe Reines [14:34]

Important Timestamps

• [03:05] – Philippe Reines describes being chosen to play Trump in debate prep
• [06:25] – Explaining the meticulous study of Trump’s debate mannerisms
• [08:59] – Reines details physical and dietary transformation for the role
• [12:08] – Comparing prepping Hillary Clinton vs. Kamala Harris for Trump debates
• [13:52] – How to provoke and manipulate Trump in a debate setting
• [14:52] – Discussion of Biden’s mistimed call to Kamala Harris before her debate
• [16:42] – Reflection on debate results vs. election outcomes
• [18:46] – Strategic advice for Democrats in dealing with Trump

Final Takeaways / Lessons for 2026

• Authentic, simple language often masquerades as honesty for large audiences—this is Trump’s special weapon.
• Traditional prep and mastery of policy details aren’t enough; connecting and outmaneuvering Trump’s plainspoken style is the greater challenge.
• Trump can be provoked and manipulated if candidates embrace the unpredictable, performative nature of debates.
• Reality—like pandemics, inflation, or lived economic experience—are powerful checks on Trump’s narrative.
• Democrats’ best play may sometimes be to let Trump bluster himself into public disfavor, while remaining clear, steady, and focused on voters’ everyday realities.

Summary by Pod Save America Podcast Summarizer