Podcast Summary: Pod Save America – “Why Are Democrats Afraid of Power?”

Episode 1115 | Aired: February 1, 2026
Host: Jon Lovett
Guest: Mark Dunkelman (author of "Why Nothing Works")

Episode Overview

This episode critically examines why Democrats and progressives seem hamstrung in wielding governmental power, contrasted with the brute-force efficiency of recent Republican leadership, particularly under Donald Trump. Jon Lovett interviews Mark Dunkelman, whose book "Why Nothing Works" explores the decline in the capacity for bold progressive governance from the New Deal era to the present. They discuss historical and present-day obstacles—ideological, procedural, and cultural—that have made it difficult for Democrats to demonstrate effective governance, and how this reality feeds political cynicism and strengthens reactionary forces.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Learning from “Trump's Brutal Efficiency”

• Contrast in Governing Styles:
  Trump’s approach exemplifies decisive, if often lawless, action (“he just knocked down the east wing of the White House. He just did it.” [04:39] – Mark Dunkelman). Democrats, in contrast, operate under complex constraints—legal, institutional, and cultural—that slow progress.
• Progressivism’s Shift:
  Dunkelman argues progressives moved from building powerful institutions for public good to a preoccupation with checking power—especially government power—after abuses in mid-20th century America.

2. The Burden of Process and Institutional Skepticism

• Historical Examples:
  • TVA and the New Deal: Programs like the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) were set up rapidly, delivering infrastructure and jobs in months (“The Civilian Conservation Corps is a matter of months. The CWA came together and hired a huge portion of the nation… in less than a year.” [15:53] – Mark Dunkelman).
  • Modern Contrasts – EV Charger Fiasco: The Biden administration’s $7.5 billion to install EV chargers resulted in only 58 chargers after three years (due to “so many process checks into the system” [12:58]).
• Process Overreach:
  A culture of accountability and transparency (born of legitimate abuses—urban renewal, environmental destruction, racist infrastructure) led to a proliferation of veto points, lawsuits, and bureaucratic sclerosis.

3. Political Constraints on Ambition

• Compromised Legislation:
  • Bipartisan deals (e.g., the infrastructure bill) needed Republican support, which led to complicated, less direct implementation (e.g., no federal “corps” to build EV chargers) ([13:08]).
  • Even Democratic majorities contend with resistance from powerful interest groups (like labor unions) and allied factions.

4. The Cultural Turn Against “Big Men” Bureaucracy

• From Reverence to Distrust:
  • Figures like Robert Moses once represented the power of expert bureaucrats. In the wake of the 1960s/70s, their legacies were tainted by urban destruction, environmental neglect, segregation, and ego-driven projects.
  • The American left became attached to "speaking truth to power," sometimes even at the expense of government efficacy ([04:39]).
  • Dunkelman: "Downstream of that thinking became a whole series of legislative maneuvers designed to box in government. The Gulliver’s Travels image…government can't move..." [26:00]

5. Trade-Offs and the Modern Bureaucratic Dilemma

• Voice versus Veto:
  Modern systems empower every community and interest group to object, making process democratic but often unworkable. (“We've now gone…to the other extreme, where we've created all sorts of mechanisms for those communities that would otherwise have been bulldozed…to speak up. ... Now we can't build the things...we need.” [29:00] – Mark Dunkelman)
• Case Studies:
  • Environmental Review – The Turtle Story: Efforts to expand rail in Massachusetts were stymied by federal stakeholders focused on protecting “vernal pools” for endangered turtles, illustrating the web of modern process that makes compromise both expensive and slow ([38:59]).
  • LA's ‘Mansion Tax’ Paradox: A well-intentioned city tax on property transfers inadvertently stifled new apartment construction, as fixing the issue would require multiple layers of reform and approval, revealing how easy it is now to grind urban reform to a halt ([44:26]).

6. The Demoralization of Public Servants

• Lost Mission and Agency:
  Governments no longer attract the same kinds of bold, ambitious experts because risk-averse bureaucratic culture punishes initiative.
  • "Today…people who go into public service…spend their days frightened…they come out…like, I wasn’t really given the sort of leash to make the positive change that I wanted to do." [57:02] – Mark Dunkelman

7. Restoring the Capacity and Confidence of Progressive Governance

• Empowering Doers, Not Just Preventing Mistakes:
  The Democratic Party must rediscover both a clear public mission and a willingness to empower people to act, acknowledging that risk and mistakes are inevitable.
  • “In order to have more faith in government, you need to see that government works...The reason that we have Trump is because people have seen government not work.” [47:07] – Mark Dunkelman
  • “Sometimes we need elected officials to tell the lawyers to fuck off and try this, push the bounds a little bit…” [59:26] – Jon Lovett

8. Current Leaders and Ideas for Reform

• Emerging Examples:
  • Praising recent feats of Democratic governance (fixing highways quickly, prioritizing student outcomes in public schools [61:51–63:04]).
  • Noting that the “abundance” and “neo-Brandesian”/progressive camps should find common cause on empowering government, not just breaking up monopolies.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think that in order for us to be popular again, we need to show that government can work…We are already, by default, the party of government.”
  – Mark Dunkelman [05:55]

• On the legacy of New Deal rapid action:
  – “Months…hundreds of thousands…the CWA came together and hired a huge portion of the nation…in less than a year. It was just incredibly fast…and then…they were unwound quickly.”
  – Mark Dunkelman [15:53]

• “Between…Robert Moses…running rampant…and…nothing…where anyone can stop anything…there’s got to be some sort of process that allows everyone to have a voice but no one to have a veto.”
  – Mark Dunkelman [29:00]

• Lovett on modern progressive culture:
  – “Politics is…defined by making sure you have the right enemies. …People are critical of those who suggest that bureaucracy…is what’s stopping clean energy, when it’s Republicans and corporate interference, too.”
  – Jon Lovett [27:01]

• On the demoralization of government work:
  – “People today who go into public service…spend their days frightened…not really given the sort of leash to make the positive change that they wanted…That is an extension of the changes we made after the Robert Moses era and that we overdid.”
  – Mark Dunkelman [57:02]

• On necessity for new governing structures:
  – “We go through these periods in American life where the broader structure of power just completely changes…People aren’t happy with this. … We will figure out a series of ways organically through reforms.”
  – Mark Dunkelman [51:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:39] – What progressives can learn from “Trump’s brutal efficiency”
• [08:39] – TVA vs. modern infrastructure: Speed and discretion then & now
• [12:58] – EV charger program: process paralysis in real time
• [15:53] – How fast New Deal jobs programs were implemented
• [20:35] – From reverence to skepticism: the 20th century’s cultural turn against technocratic power
• [29:00] – The dilemma: voice vs. veto in democratic process
• [38:59] – The “turtle” saga: how overlapping stakeholder protections can block progress
• [44:26] – LA’s mansion tax: policy intentions vs. systemic inertia
• [47:07, 48:18, 51:35] – Why people lose faith in government, cyclical nature of bureaucratic effectiveness
• [57:02] – Declining allure of public sector work
• [59:26] – Sometimes leaders need to “tell the lawyers to fuck off”
• [61:51-63:04] – Examples of current Democratic leaders taking initiative (Mamdani, Shapiro, Newsom, Whitmer)
• [65:19] – Importance of credibility and mission for Democrats
• [66:48] – Who is the Democratic establishment and how to regain confidence

Conclusion

This episode is a deep dive into one of the central dilemmas of modern liberalism: How can Democrats reclaim the ability to build big things when they are paralyzed by both internal skepticism of power and external veto points? Lovett and Dunkelman urge a return to bold public missions, accompanied by practical reforms for efficient government—a task requiring cultural, institutional, and political evolution.

Recommended for: Listeners interested in the practical challenges of American governance, the evolution of Democratic Party identity, and the future of progressive policymaking.