Fascist Mile High Club

Summary

Pod Save America, Ep. 1122: "Fascist Mile High Club" (Feb 16, 2026)

Hosts: Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Dan Pfeiffer, Tommy Vietor
Location: Sydney, Australia (Live Show)

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Episode Overview

The hosts bring their sharp, irreverent political analysis Down Under in a live episode from their “Hopefully Just Visiting” tour in Sydney. They break down the latest political absurdities in the US—from Trump’s efforts to further restrict voting and Kristi Noem’s DHS drama to the bizarre “war on donuts” and the latest Obama interview. The show ends with a raucous “Playing the Field” debate on 2028 Democratic hopefuls, mixing laughs and substance in equal measure.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. American Political Mayhem Recap

• Opening banter: The hosts highlight the chaos back home: Trump’s attempted arrest of Congress members, DOJ’s Epstein antics, HHS’s "war on donuts," and the shut-down DHS still running “deportation flights to Pound Town.”
• Lovett (03:01): “The Health and Human Services secretary declared war on donuts. And even though the Department of Homeland Security is shut down, the secretary's deportation plane is reportedly still taking trips to Pound Town.”

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2. Trump, the SAVE Act, and GOP Voting Restrictions

[05:00–14:00]

• Discussion about Trump’s push for the restrictive SAVE Act, requiring passports or birth certificates to vote, and Republican threats to kill the filibuster to push it through.
• Tommy Vietor (07:26): “There is not an epidemic of non-citizens voting. In America we can barely get our citizens to vote.”
• Dan Pfeiffer (09:31): Explains practical issues: many Americans don’t have passports, particularly low-income, non-college educated, and recently married women. The law would disenfranchise millions, potentially hurting GOP voters as well.
• Jon Favreau (11:58): “Half the country doesn’t have passports. And you think the State Department, after they've cut as much of the State Department as they have, is going to start processing passports this quickly?”
• Hosts agree the move is about intimidating and deterring Democratic voters (“They want to take away your power so that...the Epstein class gets to call the shots,” - Dan Pfeiffer 10:15).
• Takeaway: The push is framed as Trump cannonballing into the voting pool, forcing destructive overreactions that may backfire.

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3. Kristi Noem & Lewandowski: DHS Soap Opera

[13:15–21:28]

• The Wall Street Journal exposes Kristi Noem’s affair with Corey Lewandowski and her misuse of DHS resources—including a "private fuck cabin" on the department's deportation plane.
• Tommy Vietor (14:37): “Kristi Noem…bragged about murdering her dog...She also greenlit an anti-drug PSA: 'Meth. We're on it.' That’s the intellectual firepower here.”
• Lovett (16:01): “Fucking idiot,” in response to Lewandowski’s gun antics.
• Hosts mock both their incompetence and authoritarian impulses, but argue that real policy danger comes from Stephen Miller’s control, while Noem is “the one that was driving...sensationalist coverage” (Lovett 20:25).
• Emphasis on lack of vetting for critical posts and how cronyism/ego trumps core competency (“His [Trump’s] number one priority is immigration... He picks someone who has no experience,” - Dan 19:21).

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4. Australian–American Political Scandals Game: “Ar Gnar What a Shit Shower”

[24:45–43:41]

• Lovett leads an engaging, light-hearted quiz comparing scandals from both countries—including Jimmy Carter and the “killer rabbit”, Prime Minister Harold Holt and submarine conspiracies, Bush Sr. vomiting, Bob Hawke’s beer record, and Larry Craig’s bathroom escapade.
• The segment is punctuated by audience laughter and boasts (“You people named a swimming pool after a prime minister who drowned?” - Jon Lovett, 28:31), charting the wild side of politics on both continents.

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5. War on Donuts: Processed Foods, Wellness, and MAGA Health

[45:37–56:28]

• HHS’s “war on donuts” is cynically dissected. The hosts mock a ham-fisted PSA starring Mike Tyson and point out hypocrisy as “wellness” messaging migrates from left to Trumpworld.
• Tommy Vietor (47:49): “He [Tyson] looks so genuinely pissed. Like that slap does not seem like a stage slap.”
• On Trump’s diet: “He eats like there’s no tomorrow… McDonalds, candy and Diet Coke…pumping himself full of poison all day long.” (RFK Jr., 50:51)
• Dan Pfeiffer (52:04): Laments how the “Make America Healthy Again” movement—raw milk, anti-vaccine, chemical-free—has gone from being a progressive cause to a rightwing talking point.
• Jon Lovett (53:39): Notes regulatory failure and compares it to 1990s diet fads: “Now, like, there is real reason for people to be like, wait a second, why didn't we address some of these things? Why didn't we pull some of these chemicals out?” but “it’s not an occasional donut, it’s measles.”

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6. Barack Obama: On Aliens and Democratic Renewal

[56:28–66:12]

• The hosts dissect Obama’s viral interview answer on aliens and joke about the government’s “deep state” secrecy.
  • Tommy Vietor (58:16): “I do not think that Barack Obama was just sort of, like, casually confirming the existence of aliens...in the speed round of the interview.”
  • Jon Lovett (59:56): “It wasn't until he put out the clarifying statement that I was convinced in my bones that there are aliens and Barack Obama knows about them 100%.”
• Obama’s more important remarks: urges Democrats to seek younger, more culturally and digitally astute candidates, be plugged into the zeitgeist, and not get caught up in purity politics.
  • Obama (61:00): “At some point, you age out. You're not connected directly to the immediate struggles that folks are going through. Democrats do well when we have candidates who are plugged into the moment, to the zeitgeist, to the times…”
  • Also advocates a “robust” primary to clarify party direction and rebuild coalition.

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7. Rebuilding for 2028: Democratic Party’s Future

[66:12–73:59]

• The hosts reflect on Obama’s call for renewal and take stock of the party’s crisis—a “sclerotic” and disconnected leadership, a too-old establishment, and an urgent need for an “out of the box” debate about message, direction, and candidates.
  • Dan Pfeiffer (71:13): “The Democratic Party is in a state of crisis…We need to have a big, giant, messy debate about who we are, what we stand for, and who should be in charge of this party.”
  • Lovett and others warn, however, that “a messy debate is no guarantee that people show up to the table with what we need.” (72:26)

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8. "Playing the Field": 2028 Democratic Hopefuls Debate

[76:43–99:40]

• In a satirical segment, each host is randomly assigned a rumored 2028 Democratic hopeful:
  • Jon Favreau: JB Pritzker
  • Jon Lovett: Pete Buttigieg
  • Tommy Vietor: Rahm Emanuel
  • Dan Pfeiffer: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)
• Each makes their best (and worst) case for their candidate, with the others lobbing sharp, sometimes brutal, critiques.
• Memorable moments:
  • On Buttigieg (Lovett, 91:13): “Nowhere to go but up…You ever have a jar of pickles...but you're loosening it, you know? And one day, boom. Black votes.”
  • On Rahm (Tommy, 92:08): “First of all, people don’t like crime, thus that bill…Also chief of staff, member of Congress, ambassador to Japan. He's ready for the job.”
  • On AOC (Dan, 82:29): “They’re going to say she can't win. Do you know who else they said that about? Barack Obama…We need a candidate who can actually communicate in this environment—there is no better communicator than AOC.”
• Audience votes with biggest cheers for AOC; good-natured jabs and razor wit abound.

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Notable Quotes

• Jon Lovett (03:01): “Alarming and stupid has sort of been our decade.”
• Dan Pfeiffer (09:31): “This would be the greatest step backwards in recent memory for voting in America.”
• Tommy Vietor (47:02): “Mike Tyson is the scariest motherfucker to walk this planet.”
• RFK Jr. (55:04): “I'm not scared of a germ. You know, I used to snort cocaine off a toilet seats.”
• Barack Obama (61:00): “At some point, you age out. You're not connected directly to the immediate struggles that folks are going through.”
• Dan Pfeiffer (71:13): “We have to have a big, giant, messy debate about who we are...if we don't, we may win in 2028, but...we didn't solve any of our problems, and we were right back where we were before.”

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Important Timestamps

• [03:01] – Opening banter on absurd US news
• [05:00–14:00] – SAVE Act, GOP voting restrictions, filibuster
• [13:15–21:28] – DHS Kristi Noem/Cory Lewandowski scandal
• [24:45–43:41] – “Ar Gnar What a Shit Shower” audience game
• [45:37–56:28] – MAGA “War on Donuts”, Trump’s eating habits, wellness movement
• [56:28–66:12] – Obama on aliens and party renewal
• [66:12–73:59] – Future of the Democratic Party, calls for messy debate
• [76:43–99:40] – 2028 Democratic nomination “Playing the Field” debate

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Tone & Style

• Witty, fast-paced, and irreverent, blending serious analysis with biting humor.
• Equal parts wonkiness (“the Brennan Center found…”) and roast (“Corey Lewandowski...wants to be a sheriff for Halloween, apparently,” - Tommy).
• Polished, but very conversational and “no-bullshit” as promised.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode captures Pod Save America's trademark blend of policy savvy, hard-hitting critique, and improv-comedy chaos—peppered with audience interaction and plenty of American-Aussie cross-cultural ribbing. The hosts provide a clear, insightful take on current challenges for US democracy, satirize the self-inflicted wounds of the MAGA movement, and openly question the direction of the Democratic Party headed toward 2028—urging both humility and ambition as the only path forward.

Transcript

[Jon Lovett]

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[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

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[Sydney Audience Member / Ad Voice]

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[Jon Favreau]

What's up, Sydney? Welcome to Pause Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm Jon Lovett.

[Tommy Vietor]

I'm Tommy Vitor.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

[Jon Favreau]

So this is the final stop on our hopefully just visiting tour. And in the week we've been gone from America, nothing has really happened that makes us want to go back. The president tried to arrest some members of Congress. The attorney general handled questions about Jeffrey Epstein by screaming about the stock market. The Health and Human Services secretary declared war on donuts. And even though the Department of Homeland Security is shut down, the secretary's deportation plane is reportedly still taking trips to Pound Town. We'll talk about.

[Tommy Vietor]

It.

[Jon Favreau]

Sure is making a stop. We'll talk about some of these stories tonight, as well as Barack Obama's comments on whether aliens are real and how Democrats can win them over.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's the secret plan to win the election.

[Jon Favreau]

Then we're going to stage our very own debate about which Democrat is the best choice to be the nominee in 2028. So, yeah, something to look forward to. What did you say?

[Jon Lovett]

Is that Newsom, Gavin Newsom's here. Stop on his way back from Munich. Stop by here.

[Jon Favreau]

He doesn't miss a podcast.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Did somebody, did somebody say Newsom?

[Jon Favreau]

But we're going to start with the question that we keep getting asked everywhere we go on this trip, which is will Donald Trump try to steal the midterm elections? Yeah, the outlook isn't great. As we were boarding our flight the other day, Trump went on one of his insane rants about voter id. In this instance, it was about Democrats in Congress blocking the SAVE act, which would require all Americans to present either their passport or their birth certificate in person at an elections office in order to vote. Trump isn't thrilled that this law is having trouble passing. So he wrote, quote, I have searched the depths of legal arguments not yet articulated or vetted on this subject and will be presenting an irrefutable one in the very near future. There will be voter ID for the midterm elections, whether approved by Congress or not. That same day, Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem, whose department has no role in administering federal elections in America, nevertheless held an election security event in Arizona. And here's what she said when it.

[Jon Lovett]

Gets to Election Day, that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right.

[Sydney Audience Member / Ad Voice]

Leaders to lead this country.

[Jon Favreau]

Can you offer us any good examples.

[Barack Obama]

Of this kind of fraud in Arizona?

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, I'm sure there's many of them, but we want to make sure that we have.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, that's right. So Lovett on one hand really alarming, on the other hand she really is stupid. So what do you think?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I think alarming and stupid has sort of been our decade. So I think what's she has no role in administering elections, as you pointed out. And we'll talk more about her other roles roles later. But what is clear is like why is she doing this? It's not because she has some secret knowledge about their plan to steal the election. She's doing this because she thinks this is what Donald Trump wants to see her doing. This is a message event where she's trying to get headlines, doing the thing that she thinks is the kind of thing that Donald Trump wants a cabinet secretary to be doing. Everything about what she does is about how it's going to look the, the image, her own profile, keeping herself in Trump's favor. So what's alarming to me about this is she's a Claude and she's saying it in the most ham fisted way possible. She's going beyond, I think what even a Trump administration official would normally say, but it's revealing because she's saying what she believes Trump wants to hear. And I think that's right. I don't think she's wrong about that.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, Tommy. As for the SAVE act, which has passed the House but doesn't currently have enough votes to pass the Senate, Republicans are now toying with the idea of either eliminating the filibuster or if they can't get the votes for that, forcing Democrats to do a talking filibuster where they have to physically stand on the Senate floor and keep speaking indefinitely if they want to block the bill. What do you make of that threat and is that a good idea for Republicans?

[Tommy Vietor]

So I genuinely find the focus on this confusing. I think what Republicans would say is it's a very popular piece of legislation. They say it's like an 8020 issue, which might be true. But I think if you asked voters a separate question which is like, okay, Republicans are going to blow up the US Senate and the way it functions, here's a menu of things they could do it on behalf of. People would say stuff like, well, let's make some jobs or like fix the economy or make health care more affordable. And more housing and not this. So moreover, like, it's solving a fake problem. There is not an epidemic of non citizens voting. I don't know if you guys have heard this, but in America we can barely get our citizens to vote. Like, I think like less than just.

[Jon Lovett]

A few minutes ago you said, we said Barack Obama was trying to get aliens to vote.

[Tommy Vietor]

Now, using your tune, less than half the country turned out in the last midterm election. But this piece of legislation would create real hurdles for citizens to get registered. There's an organization called the Brennan center, which is like nonpartisan voting rights activists. They said that like 21 million people could face added hardships because they didn't have easy access to the documents you would need to get registered. For example, like, women who are recently married and haven't and change their names might have to go through a bunch of hurdles. So it could hurt Republicans as much as Democrats. And I know Dan has like dug into this, but regardless, if Republicans blow up the filibuster to pass the SAVE act, and I think Democrats will almost certainly respond in kind. And that could mean when Democrats are in charge of passing universal mail in ballots federally across the country, same day registration. Hey, maybe we could take a page out of your book and do a little compulsory voting.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I know you guys like that taxpayer funded democracy sausages.

[Tommy Vietor]

Democracy, yes, democracy sausage with bluey.

[Jon Favreau]

We can't. You can't even get compulsory measles vaccines anymore.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, baby steps. And then, you know, you could see Democrats passing other legislation that's not related to voting rights. So it seems it's a strange choice to me.

[Jon Favreau]

Dan, how do you think Democrats should play it?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, I think it's just worth explaining what this bill actually does. Like to register to vote in the United States. You can do it with only two documents, your passport or your birth certificate. And if you got married and changed your name, your birth certificate does not work. And so, as Tommy points out, it's just worth noting, I think this is actually an argument to make to Republicans because we do not want this to happen. I could make a very compelling argument that this would actually help Democrats in the short term because our base is much more likely to be college educated and wealthy. One in four people who didn't go to college has a passport. One in five people who make less than $50,000 has a passport. Conservative women change their name after getting married at twice the rate of liberal women.

[Jon Lovett]

It still sounded pretty good.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But we also like democracy and this would be the greatest step backwards. I think in recent memory for voting in America, the millions of people be disenfranchised by this and that would. And the people most likely disenfranchised, the people whose voices need to be heard most in the system. And so I think we have two. We have to try to stop this. I think it is very possible they will consider finding some way to jam this through because Trump wants it. And it's word. It's worth noting, most of these people are particularly stupid and they don't recognize how bad this would be for them in the short term. And they are fully convinced because they get all their news from all their information from Fox News that there is this epidemic of noncitizen voting. All the studies show that it comes out to 0.0001% of attempted attempts. Not even people actually voted, but non citizens attempting to vote. All the studies show it's not a thing that happens. And so we have to make a private argument because we don't want this to happen. But the public argument I think is really important because we want them to feel internal pressure to not do this. We want them to feel external pressure about what would happen if they do do it. And I think the argument we want to make is that Donald Trump and Republicans want to pass this law because they want to make it harder for you to vote, to take away your power, so that billionaires, corporations, politically connected cronies, elites, the Epstein class, are the ones who get to call the shots in our government, not you. Right. I think we need to take this and put it into the context of our larger narrative about how Trump is helping elites, he's exploiting a broken system, how he's corrupt, instead of trying to make just a pure what's good for democracy argument. Because that has not worked out so well for us in recent years.

[Jon Favreau]

It's crazy because we are nine months from the midterm elections and the states administer federal elections. This thing passes just the amount of money and manpower it would take for every state to set up a verification system to like make sure they're verifying people's passports and birth certificates. Half the country doesn't have passports. And you think the State Department, after they've cut as much of the State Department as they have, is going to start processing passports this quickly?

[Jon Lovett]

They will for red states. Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, that's what's so nefarious about this is you have now taken the thing you need to vote is something the federal government controls whether you get or not.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, but I don't even if even if they make it for red states, I think that the argument that red states are going to be hurt by this and Trump voters are going to be hurt by this is a good one to make because it's true. Like they are, like they do this, they're going to disenfranchise a whole bunch of their own voters.

[Tommy Vietor]

But everything will be a disaster, just will.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, this is to register to vote, right? So there's a question about what happens if you are already registered, but online voter registration gone. Mail in voter registration definitely gone. Automatic voter registration gone to vote. Right now, under this bill, the only way to feasibly register to vote is to walk into an elections office bearing your passport or your birth certificate, which I'm sure you all have in your home, Right? Like, it's crazy.

[Jon Favreau]

Ridiculous. So, speaking of Kristi Noem, we need to talk about the incredible Wall Street Journal story that shed some light on the long rumored extramarital affairs between the Homeland Security secretary and her most powerful advisor, former Trump campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski. So these two lovebirds have apparently been flying around on a taxpayer funded deportation plane with a private fuck cabin in the back. That's what's going on there. They've also been using the department's massive budget to not only terrorize communities, but advance Noem's presidential ambitions. And they've been firing any government officials who stand in their way, including apparently a Coast Guard pilot who committed the sin of accidentally leaving gnomes blankie in the plane. But then they had to hire him back because they had no other way to get home, which tells you everything.

[Jon Lovett]

You can't fire the fucking pilot before you fly home.

[Jon Favreau]

Get another fucking blanket also. Well, yeah, you're spending this much money on the plane and the cabin in the back. Have an extra blanket. Favorite anecdotes in this piece, guys. Anyone want to start? Tommy?

[Tommy Vietor]

So just two quick things about these individuals. So Kristi Noem, you guys have probably heard that she bragged about murdering her dog. You know that part? When she was governor of South Dakota, she also greenlit an anti drug PSA with the tagline meth comma, we're on it. So that's the intellectual firepower on that part of the relationship. The other half of the tryst is a guy named Corey Lewandowski who was Donald Trump's first campaign manager, who got busted lying about something in the media and had to testify in front of Congress about it. And he said, quote, I have no obligation to be honest with the media. That was A quote to Congress. So these are the people we're talking about. My favorite part of the story is about this guy, Corey Lewandowski, who desperately wants a gun and a badge because he is a five year old and he wants to be a sheriff for Halloween, apparently. And he is so hell bent on getting this gun and badge issued to him by DHS that he has fired or pushed out people at the department that tell him he's not allowed to do it. And the reason this is so surprising that he would care so deeply is he was arrested in 1999 for bringing a gun to his office, which was Congress. And he said he forgot that it was in his laundry bag.

[Jon Lovett]

Fucking idiot.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Also, he didn't get. Well, also, this is also my favorite anecdote. He used the auto pen to sign the permit to get the gun. Then he did not actually get the gun. People realized that maybe that was not a good idea. But he's been spotted wearing the badge around town.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, he still got the badge.

[Tommy Vietor]

He wears the badge in the bedroom, in the bed, in the back.

[Jon Lovett]

I don't want to think about the roles they're playing. Cops and robbers. Yeah. Like, the thing that, like the desire that she seems to have to want to run for president and the fact that she is truly, like, she just isn't bright. Like, she's just not capable of putting together the pieces. Like, to me, when I read the piece, what you take away from it is this is somebody that is trying to like, gain like total control over this department, but. But does not have the intellect, skills, capability of actually administering it. So it's creating problems all around her. And those problems are embarrassing both to her personally and to the president. And so she can only react by trying to fire people hastily pull together conferences where she's standing in front of like, pallets of supplies or like flying around the country trying to do press conferences to impress Donald Trump. But like every. Everything she touches seems to turn to shit.

[Jon Favreau]

She's got. She's overseeing a budget that is now the size of the Israeli militaries because they got all this ice, got all this funding. She is, according to this piece, using the budget, or trying to use the budget to run hundreds of millions of dollars worth of ads to burnish her reputation. They were trying to use all the deportations and make sure that they film all the deportations. Like all the cruel, awful, like, deportation porn that the DHS is putting out on social media. This was like, originally conceived to help Kristi Noem's presidential ambitions. And Then when they realized that this actually wasn't helping that much because they killed two Americans, then she decided to pivot to fema, to the Federal Emergency Management association, and pay attention to that. And so she started going to, like. Even though she didn't care about that at first, she started going to all these press conferences, although she told everyone when the winter storm was coming, don't say the word ICE about the winter storm, because you don't want to confuse it for the ICE agency, because that's not really popular right now. So that's what's going on at DHS right now, which is now shut down temporarily, I guess, because they. They don't want to accede to the Democrats demands for ICE agents taking off their masks and following the law and the Constitution and making sure that they try to get a warrant before they break into people's homes.

[Jon Lovett]

So their. Their red line in negotiation is having warrants from judges, which is a problem because that's also a red line in the Constitution. So they're on the wrong side of a very bright red line. There's also a moment where. And I didn't. I forgot that this had happened. Where it was after the killing of Alex Preddy. They're at a Cabinet meeting, and in those meetings where Trump goes from person to person, getting them to praise him, he skipped over Christine Ohm in the meeting, which is basically like getting a kiss on the cheek from fucking Al Capone.

[Jon Favreau]

You know, she's still got a job he hasn't fired yet.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it's just worth honing in on just how fucking banana it is that he gave her this job to begin with. His number one priority is immigration. This is one of the most powerful, biggest agents in the world. He picks someone who has no experience in immigration. She's the governor of South Dakota. I spent a lot of time in South Dakota politics. The only immigration in South Dakota you worry about is people sneaking across the Minnesota border. It is the South Dakota budget. The DHS budget is nine times larger than the state of South Dakota's budget, and the DHS workforce is 20 times larger than the South Dakota state employees.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like, she's so in over her head over this. And he only gave it to her because his former campaign manager, who is her alleged boyfriend and wants to be her alleged campaign manager, she runs for president, convinced him to do so.

[Tommy Vietor]

First dude.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

First dude. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

I just think.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think he's second dude.

[Jon Favreau]

And I think he knows that Stephen Miller is really in charge of the Department of Homeland Security. And I think that Stephen Miller. I know, and I think Miller probably likes the fact that he's got a dummy running DHS that will do whatever he says. And he wouldn't want someone that was, like, pushing back and being competent and trying to run the thing.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. The core mistake is she was so focused on getting attention and getting press that she is the one that was driving the sensationalist coverage, the. The big glossy fucking raids, the helicopters. She's the one that goes down to seek out stands there with a gold Rolex on her wrist. She's the one that wants Bavino. And all of that has, like, come back on them so terribly. So she's just tarred from this. But she's not the one deciding how many people they're trying to deport. That is the administration's policy. She's not doing good PR for them. But Stephen Miller is the reason they have a mass deportation policy. And they can gussy it up. You could swap out Bevin for Tom Homan. If you're trying to deport millions of people, you're going to be deporting people that are just here to do work and do jobs. There's no. There's not enough criminals in the world for them to round up. And so, like, they'll. They'll put like a. You know, they'll try to kind of have her be the fall person for this, but they're doing what the. The. The White House wants them to be doing. Glad to have someone look terrible while.

[Jon Favreau]

Doing it for them. Yeah. All right. We will be back with more news right after this. This episode of Pod Save America is brought to you by Grazza. Everyone knows I love to cook for my friends.

[Jon Lovett]

That's all that is. You know what?

[Jon Favreau]

Come on.

[Jon Lovett]

That is bullshit.

[Jon Favreau]

You can't give me. No, I don't love to cook for my friends.

[Jon Lovett]

How long have we been friends? How long have we been friends? 20 years. No less.

[Jon Favreau]

Less. Less.

[Jon Lovett]

But not that many years.

[Jon Favreau]

Doesn't matter how many years.

[Jon Lovett]

Never once, never will cook for once. You've never heated anything up for me.

[Jon Favreau]

Never cook for my wife.

[Jon Lovett]

You handed me a diet cook in your home.

[Jon Favreau]

I guess I've cooked for my children, but that's about it.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, I cook with Graza all the time. I use it all the time. I use the sizzle, I use the frizzle, I use the drizzle. And it's great. I used it yesterday. I made a Caesar salad from scratch. That's true. I haven't. That's right too Maybe mine's worse.

[Jon Favreau]

But I do love, I do love the olive oil. It's delicious, easy to use, extra virgin olive oil, and it's an affordable everyday price. It's always fresh. Graza, they pick, press, and bottle all their olives in the same season. You don't want to go different seasons on the olives. You can even see the harvest date on every bottle. Graza has not one, but two extra virgin olive oils to stock your kitchen. And you can choose between squeeze or glass bottles. There's Sizzle, their everyday cooking oil that's perfect for roasting, sauteing, and, well, anything you cook. They also have Drizzle, a super punchy, flavorful finishing oil that's great for dipping bread, whipping up a salad dressing, or even drizzling over ice cream. Okay.

[Jon Lovett]

People are getting pretty crazy with that. I made a Caesar from scratch with Grazza last night, and it was fucking great. Like, I was like, this is really good. I did a really good job.

[Jon Favreau]

I like the Drizzle for dipping bread. Love dipping bread. And some olive oil. It's a great olive oil to use. And here's a personal endorsement. Lovett's always hosting dinner parties.

[Jon Lovett]

I am.

[Jon Favreau]

And I think quality olive oil is pretty essential to his kitchen.

[Jon Lovett]

It is. That's right.

[Jon Favreau]

There you go. You'll get 10% off your first order of any olive oil on their site. But you know, I would recommend the Graza duo. You'll receive two bottles of extra virgin olive oil, Sizzle for cooking and Drizzle for finishing with an extra kick of bold flavor. So head to Graza Co and use crooked to get 10% off and get to cooking your next chef quality meal.

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[Jon Lovett]

Australia and America, separated by an ocean, but bound by history. We both rejected the British crown, some of us more than others. And we rid ourselves of their fussy, uptight accents, instead choosing to let our vowels do whatever. In many ways, we both take pride in being wild countries with larger than life people and political mayhem to match. Which is why it's time for a game we're calling Ar Gnar. What a shit shower. American and Australian political controversies and scandals. Okay, here's how it's gonna work. I'm gonna come out there. I have questions for all of you about American mayhem. I have questions for my best boys about Australian political mayhem. And we will see who knows each other's countries better. Okay, everybody ready?

[Tommy Vietor]

All right, to be clear, we are learning the name of this game, the substance of it, all of this.

[Jon Lovett]

For the first time, they truly have no idea what the questions are. They are learning this in genuinely. It has been kept from them all day. Okay, all right. Who would like to answer a question for Australia? I would like no expats. Peas. I better hear the fucking accent. I came a long way. All right, your hand went up. I'm coming all the way up.

[Tommy Vietor]

Here we go.

[Jon Lovett]

Kai, what's your name? Who raised their hand? Oh, hi. What's your name?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Olivia.

[Jon Lovett]

Olivia, where are you from?

[Sydney Audience Member / Ad Voice]

Sydney.

[Tommy Vietor]

Cool.

[Jon Lovett]

All right. In 1979, U.S. president Jimmy Carter was vacationing near his home in Plains, Georgia, when he used a canoe paddle to defend himself against an attacker who had managed to penetrate his Secret Service perimeter. Who was that attacker? Was it A, a crazed member of the infamous Manson family, B, a swamp rabbit, C, a right wing militiaman from a nearby compound, Or D, a white tailed American deer? Okay, okay. So. Huh. Wow. So you're saying be a swamp rabbit. That's correct. It was a swamp rabbit. In what became known as the, quote, killer rabbit attack, said one Carter Stafford to the Times, the President was swinging for his life. Here is a piece that ran about the incident in the Washington Post, illustrated with a parody poster for Pause. Now, here's something interesting. Only one photo of the incident exists. The Carter White House refused to release it. But when Ronald Reagan took office, his administration released the rabbit files. We show here Jimmy Carter splashing. It's hard. Over there on the right is the rabbit. Only one photo exists of him trying to keep the Rabbit at bay. All right, now. Bad bunny.

[Jon Favreau]

Nice.

[Jon Lovett]

All right, John. Dan. Tommy. The Harold Holt Memorial Swimming center is a pool in Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia. It is named in honor of Prime Minister Harold Holt after he unexpectedly passed in 1967. How did he die? Was he, A, bitten by the deadly Sydney funnel web spider while on a bushwalk? Was it, B, a heart attack while traveling from Canberra to Tasmania? Was it, C, drowned while swimming in rough surf off Cheviot beach in Victoria? Or D, stung by the Irukandji jellyfish inadvertently added to marine aquarium at the opening of the since demolished Manly Sea Lifestyle Sanctuary?

[Tommy Vietor]

C?

[Jon Lovett]

C. It is C. Yeah. You people named a swimming pool after a prime minister who drowned?

[Jon Favreau]

That's awesome.

[Jon Lovett]

Follow up. There has long been a conspiracy theory that Harold Holt did not die in the water that day. What is the most prominent alternate theory? Is it, A, he was abducted by aliens? B, he faked his own death to start a new life in America? C, he actually died in a motel with a prostitute? Or D, he was grabbed by the Chinese?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

C, C, C, C. No, it's D.

[Jon Lovett]

The Chinese got him. The Chinese got him. The thief is that he was, in fact a Chinese spy who escaped Australia on a Chinese submarine. How many people here believe that? Wow. A lot of hands.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's why you need Aukus a lot.

[Jon Lovett]

That's why you need Aukus. You gotta defend yourselves. You don't want those French diesel submarines. Now, his widow, Zara Holt, had to refute this allegation. What did she say to deny that her husband was a Chinese spy? Someone called it out. She scoffed and said her husband didn't even like Chinese food. All right, let's come up here. The lawyer would like to answer a question.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Hi.

[Jon Lovett]

What's your name?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Margaret.

[Jon Lovett]

Margaret, that's A. Where are you from? I'll give you the accent. Where are you from? I'm from Bexley North. How far is that from here? That's half an hour's drive. Because my. My understanding is the further you get from here, the thicker the accent. Is that about right? Okay, Depends. Which direction, I guess. Out to sea it gets less. In 1992, President George H.W. bush attended a state dinner hosted by the Japanese prime minister. What went wrong, do you know? I'll give you the. I can give you clues. Was it, A, he fell asleep during the prime Minister's toast? Was it, B, he accidentally insulted the emperor? Was it, C, he tried to open a ceremonial urn that was in fact 3,000 years old, cracking it in several places? Or D, did He vomit into the prime minister's lap and faint. What do you think? He vomited into the prime minister's lap and fainted. That's correct.

[Tommy Vietor]

Nailed it.

[Jon Lovett]

Yep. George Bush had a chunder. How's that? Okay.

[Tommy Vietor]

That picture is so bad.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It really is.

[Jon Lovett]

What is Barbara doing? Barbara? I'll tell you what Barbara Bush is doing. She's being a first lady. Because she did not care if he lived or died. She was going to hide his face.

[Tommy Vietor]

She looks like she's trying to snuff him out.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, she really. She doesn't.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's.

[Jon Lovett]

She jumped. If you watch the video, everybody, she jumps in. She jumps in. Like she dives. Like in front of a bullet. For. For George. Well, in a sense.

[Jon Favreau]

But that's cool.

[Jon Lovett]

It's cool.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow.

[Jon Lovett]

All right. John. Dan. Tommy. Former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawk held a Guinness World Record before entering politics. What was it? For four. Was it A, most sausages eaten at a cricket match? B, longest continuous speech on the floor of Parliament. C, fastest consumption of a yard of beer. Or D, longest distance swum in open water, not including Holt. What do you think, Dan?

[Jon Favreau]

What do you think?

[Tommy Vietor]

Speech. I have no clue. Don't look at me.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You gotta weigh in here, Jon.

[Jon Lovett]

Hey. Stop helping them. Look how handsome they are. They've earned everything. So blessed. What do you think?

[Jon Favreau]

Can you give us the pounding?

[Jon Lovett]

Beer. That's correct. That's what I'm saying.

[Jon Favreau]

All right.

[Jon Lovett]

Good. The fastest consumption.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thank you for the help.

[Jon Lovett]

The fastest consumption of a yard of ale. 2.5 pints. He did it in about 11 seconds, a record he set while studying in Oxford. Hawk later said this feat was to endear me to some of my fellow Australians more than anything else I ever achieved. Here we have a video of him later.

[Jon Favreau]

That's amazing.

[Jon Lovett]

He gets. Look at that. Look at that. Gets that whole thing down.

[Tommy Vietor]

Look at this guy.

[Jon Lovett]

There's a torso.

[Jon Favreau]

American politicians take note.

[Tommy Vietor]

I know.

[Jon Lovett]

Really follow up. All right. Future Prime Minister Paul Keating was Hawk's treasurer. He recalled arriving for a meeting with the PM in a full suit, sweating to find Hawk. In what condition? How did they find. It was a hot summer day.

[Jon Favreau]

Passed out.

[Jon Lovett]

Nope.

[Tommy Vietor]

Naked.

[Jon Lovett]

Yep. Naked by the pool. He was naked for their meeting.

[Tommy Vietor]

I feel like that one probably feels less endearing over time.

[Jon Favreau]

Right?

[Jon Lovett]

Speaking of seeing members in unexpected places, who in the audience would like to go next? I'll come up there. Someone raise your hand. Someone raise their hand Coming over here. Okay. Hi.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Hi.

[Jon Lovett]

What's your name? Elizabeth. Elizabeth. In 2007, Republican Senator Larry Craig of Idaho was arrested for lewd conduct in a men's bathroom at the Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport. Accused of soliciting sex from an undercover officer. In the next stall, he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct and tried to withdraw the plea. What was his public defense? Was it, A, he was reaching under the stall divider to pick up a fallen piece of paper, he was tapping his foot, B, to the music on his headphones, C, he just has a wide stance, or D, he thought the person in the next stall was having a medical emergency? No, no, you got it wrong. It was C, he had a wide sc. Stance.

[Jon Favreau]

Wide stance.

[Jon Lovett]

Here he is at the press conferences with his poor, sad wife. Do you guys remember that?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

You. That didn't make it to Australia. Do you guys know about this? Wow.

[Tommy Vietor]

It was bleak.

[Jon Lovett]

It was pretty. It was pretty bleak. There had been a reporter that had been traveling around trying to find example evidence that Larry Craig had done this at other places throughout D.C. did he get off? I'm not sure. I mean, not that day. Follow up. What happened after he announced his intention to resign? He just didn't. He just never left. Just stayed till the end of his term. All right. For John, Dan and Tommy. On the 30th of November of 2022, the Australian House voted to censure former Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Why? They don't boo. Why was he censured? A, for secretly holding multiple ministerial positions while serving as Prime Minister, B, for his handling of the Aukus submarine deal with the United States, C, for his missteps during the COVID vaccine rollout, or D, for vacationing in Hawaii during the country's catastrophic bushfires?

[Jon Favreau]

All of them.

[Tommy Vietor]

I thought it was for shitting his pants in McDonald's drive thru.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

There it is.

[Jon Lovett]

There it is. We thought it was for shitting his pants at the McDonald's. What do you think?

[Jon Favreau]

Was it all of them?

[Jon Lovett]

It was actually. It could have been. It could have been, but it wasn't technically. They're.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They're.

[Jon Lovett]

They're all true. But only one was the reason he was censured.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Oh, Hawaii.

[Jon Lovett]

No, it actually wasn't. It was for secretly holding multiple ministerial positions. How many extra jobs did he secretly have? It was five. It's like Marco Rubio, the Health Minister, the Finance Minister, the Resources Minister, the Home Affairs Minister, and the Treasurer. Now, I have a question for the crowd. Okay. You censured Scott Morrison. Why did your Governor General not get any fucking shit for secretly signing off on this? Why do you never come for the King's representatives. Why didn't you? Where's the censure for that guy?

[Jon Favreau]

He's been on this the whole trip.

[Tommy Vietor]

He hates this Governor General.

[Jon Lovett]

I hate this Governor General thing. You're a proud people here in Australia. Get rid of the fucking crown. It's outrageous. This is one of the greatest cities in the fucking world. Look what you're building all around you. You still check with the King to make sure it's okay?

[Jon Favreau]

Okay?

[Jon Lovett]

Some thick fingered inbred freak in London. Finish your revolution, please.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Hey. Hey.

[Jon Favreau]

Donald Trump's our president, you know.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I know. It makes me so sad. All right, follow up. John Dantami. Scott Morrison did face a massive scandal for vacationing during the Black Summer bushfires. And that killed 33 people directly, hundreds more indirectly as a result of smoke. What were some of the criticisms he faced? A, his office did not notify the public who was acting Prime Minister. B, his office initially denied he was on holiday in Hawaii. C, for saying, thankfully, we've had no loss of life while visiting Kangaroo island where two people had died, or D, for saying before he'd even made it back to Australia from his trip, quote, I don't hold a hose, mate, and I don't sit in a control room.

[Tommy Vietor]

This feels like an all of the above situation.

[Jon Lovett]

You got it?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. All right.

[Jon Lovett]

Who over here who wants to answer a question about America? You're pointing at people. All right, you. Where's that Australian confidence? All right. Hi, what's your name? Rachel. Rachel, Texas Republican. Where are you from? Kangaroo Valley.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Woo.

[Jon Lovett]

You guys have a local cheer.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Where is. How far is that from here? Like two hours if you go fast.

[Tommy Vietor]

By kangaroo.

[Jon Lovett]

By kangaroo. There's Americans, you know, we really kind of. The kangaroo looms large in the child's mind for an American. And I think every American child becomes an adult when we find out that the pouches are gross. What do you think about that? Yeah, they're gross. We know more about wombats. We actually do. You know that wombats poop are cubes?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Cool. They don't know why. No one knows why it's a cube. That woman thinks she knows, all right? She doesn't know. She's a fucking liar. All right. Texas Republican Ted Cruz faced his own vacation scandal for flying to Cancun during Winter Storm Yuri, which knocked out power for millions of Texans and killed an estimated 246 people. He initially blamed his daughters and saying he was chaperoning them on a trip they'd asked for. But that was later shown to be false. How was it proven to be false? Was it A, his daughters did an Instagram live to refute the allegation? Was it B, their neighbors leaked the group chat? Was it C, he actually forgot his daughters at home home alone style? Or D, Ted Cruz emailed the proposed itinerary to Jeffrey Epstein. That's incorrect. It was the group chat.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's always the group chat.

[Jon Lovett]

It's always the group chat. The leaked group chat showed Heidi Cruz had organized the trip, inviting others to join them at the Ritz. When asked about the leaked text, Ted Cruz called his neighbors assholes. All right, John, Dan, Tommy, Johnny. There he is. There's Ted. There is Ted.

[Tommy Vietor]

Nice mask.

[Jon Lovett]

Nice mask. Johnny Depp and his then wife Amber Heard brought their two Yorkshire terrors into Australia without a quarantine declaration. Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce issued a public threat. What was that threat? Was it a, a $100,000 fine per dog? B, Depp had to film a public apology video or face prosecution? C, leave or I kill the dogs? Or D, Depp was banned from entering Australia for five years? What do you think? What did Barnaby Joyce threaten Johnny Depp? Pre cancellation? Johnny Depp.

[Tommy Vietor]

I remember this because there was, like, helicopter footage of the house where they were staying. It was like a big.

[Jon Lovett]

It was a big deal. It was a big deal. Those Yorkies.

[Jon Favreau]

It's the jail or the kill the dogs.

[Jon Lovett]

Correct.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow. Good job.

[Jon Lovett]

The dogs would be euthanized within 72 hours if Depp didn't take them out of the country. Mr. Depp has to either take his dogs back to California or we're going to have to euthanize them. The dogs were flown out. Depp later insulted Joyce by saying he looked like he was inbred. With what vegetable. You guys remember? Shout it. Tomato. Look at him. I think we read in that it's fair. I think we read in that artificially.

[Tommy Vietor]

Point to Johnny Depp on that one.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, Johnny Depp.

[Tommy Vietor]

Got him. You're all good.

[Barack Obama]

Foreign.

[Jon Lovett]

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[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

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[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

America, our cars are as generous as our asses and our roads, like our hearts, are enormous and clogged. According to a recent study in an American medical journal that somehow is still operating in both the US And Australia, we now get more than half of our calories from ultra processed foods. Now, it wasn't that long ago that Michelle Obama led a campaign to encourage Americans to eat healthier foods to get more exercise. At the time, Republicans said you could pry the cheese doodles from their cold, dead, weak, bloated hands. But all that has changed because now we're making America healthy again, as only the Trump administration knows how, by fucking it up completely. And so it's time for. Ok, stop. We'll start with a man, a donut, and a surprise special appearance by an infamous athlete. Mmm.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What do you think he doing?

[Jon Lovett]

Processed food kills. Remember that? Okay, stop.

[Jon Favreau]

That is what is happening in America.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

War on donuts.

[Tommy Vietor]

He looks so genuinely pissed. Like that slap does not seem like a stage slap. Do you guys know who Mike Tyson is? He's the scariest motherfucker to walk this planet in whenever it was that he was at his prime.

[Jon Favreau]

And not. Not one of our most upstanding Americans.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, no.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, I guess when he. Technically, Evander Holyfield's ear is not processed.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, that's true. That is true.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes. That's farm to table, baby.

[Tommy Vietor]

There's no joy in that look he's giving us right now.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, he fucking hates donuts. He hates donuts.

[Jon Favreau]

It is just wild that they have declared war on donuts because can you imagine if. Well, Michelle Obama tried to tell people to eat healthy and she was roundly criticized by the Republican Party.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Imagine the outcry if some bisexual female soccer player did a press conference and knocked a donut out of AOC's hand and said, we're not eating these anymore. It would just lead Fox News for the rest of our fucking lives.

[Tommy Vietor]

Lives. Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

This just came and went one day. People barely. Barely registered.

[Tommy Vietor]

It was on the Super Bowl.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, the other. Yeah. The other one was. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Also.

[Tommy Vietor]

If you're.

[Jon Lovett]

Let's say you're just taking this generous. Like you're just taking this at face value. Like what? You don't know. If you're like, who is being persuaded to not eat a donut by this advertisement?

[Tommy Vietor]

No one.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like, fear of physical violence.

[Tommy Vietor]

That man will come to your house.

[Jon Lovett]

Next up, milk, you know, from cows. Trump can tell you all about it. Specifically, whole milk. And we'll let him explain.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I open A refrigerator.

[Jon Favreau]

Say milk with rice and milk with.

[Jon Lovett]

Water and milk with everything.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And I say, what kind of milk is it? That's what I like right there.

[Jon Lovett]

It's actually a legal definition. Whole milk. And it's whole with a W. For those of you that have a problem.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Most of the media will get that.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, stop.

[Jon Favreau]

What is the problem? What problem would they have with the. With the milk with an H with a W. I think this is the.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

First time he discovered that.

[Jon Favreau]

I genuinely do.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think today was the day he learned that whole, meaning the entirety of the item is not the same as whole in the ground.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Also, he opens the fridge and sees milk, and he doesn't think that would go well with a delicious cookie or some cereal.

[Jon Favreau]

He thinks it pairs with rice.

[Jon Lovett]

No, no.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What I think is he is just discovering alternative milks, and he doesn't know what they are. So it's like oat milk, almond milk.

[Jon Lovett]

Soy milk, milk with rice.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Rice milk. Yeah. I think he thinks it's rice milk.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I just think he's confused.

[Jon Lovett]

What?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Cause then he goes, because this is the one I like right here. And he points at the jug of milk. That is off camera.

[Jon Lovett]

I like, I realized while watching this video, like, Trump is so disconnected from normal life. Like, forget not driving a car or going to a supermarket. Does he open fridges? Like, does he know what happened? Like, does he ever. Like, maybe other than a drink fridge, like a compact drink fridge filled with Diet Coke.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No.

[Tommy Vietor]

Someone brings him a Diet Coke.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

No one's. He presses a button. He's not doing that himself.

[Jon Lovett]

So he doesn't open a fridge and look for food to eat.

[Tommy Vietor]

Presses the Diet Coke button.

[Jon Lovett]

Right. So I don't think he's thinking. I think when he. I think he thinks in fridges is rice.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I also think he probably has not had milk in any form in 70 years.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's like, no cereal, no glass of milk, no milk in your coffee. I don't think he drinks coffee. He drinks.

[Jon Favreau]

He washes down the cookies with Diet Coke, for sure.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

I think that part's cool.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, this also is worth. Is that this was the executive order to allow people to drink raw milk.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Which has cow shit in it, as.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Far as I can tell.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Just the natural selection will kick in, presumably at some point, drinking raw milk straight from the udder.

[Jon Favreau]

He's not drinking it, that's for sure.

[Jon Lovett]

Of course, with Trump, as always, best do as he says, but not as he does, because as RFK Jr. Has observed. He eats like there's no tomorrow.

[Jon Favreau]

Who has the most unhinged eating habits.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He eats really bad food, which is McDonald's, and then, you know, candy and Diet Coke. But he drinks the Diet Coke at all times.

[Jon Favreau]

He has a constitution of a deity.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I don't know how he's alive. If you travel with him, you get this idea that he's just pumping himself full of poison all day long. From your mouth to God's ears.

[Jon Lovett]

What I like about this though is like, is there no part of this that causes RFK Jr to question his priors? Because there's Donald Trump in his, what, late 70s, like, boundless energy, eating nothing but French fries and burnt ground beef all day, every day. Nothing but aspartame Diet Coke. And he's like running a mile a minute around this guy. Meanwhile, RFK Jr never doesn't to seem. Seem like he's on the verge of.

[Tommy Vietor]

Collapse.

[Jon Lovett]

Having nothing but like, kimchi and raw milk.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. He ferments.

[Tommy Vietor]

He affirmints.

[Jon Lovett]

Kimchi, among other ferments.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

Pumping himself full of poison all day long.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, it's also just worth just mentioning, like, what this is all about, right? Like this, the donut thing. RFK Jr here, the raw milk is the Make America Healthy Again movement, which has taken over large parts of our politics and is probably the fact that all of these wellness people ended up as Republicans is like a massive failure of the Democratic Party big time.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, just like the person who is the primary, like the number one food influencer in America, this woman named Food Babe. That's her. She was sat behind RFK Jr. At his confirmation hearings. She was an Obama delegate in 2008, 2012.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, wow.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And just we, even though, like, we have led on this stuff, we just like stopped talking to these people.

[Jon Favreau]

And the algorithm, we wouldn't give them raw milk.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We wouldn't. Well, the people like RFK Jr pushed them into the like. Like, the algorithm will take you on.

[Tommy Vietor]

A journey from like, vaccine skepticism is.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Where I think it takes you there.

[Jon Favreau]

We want our raw milk and we want measles.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it starts with like, how do I get like chemical free sunscreen for my kids? Or how do I, you know, how to feed my kids healthy? And the algorithm takes you and then you're at vaccine skepticism, you're at raw milk, then you're supporting Donald Trump. And the thing that's crazy is like the. Is that all of this, like, eating, not eating processed foods, that's a good thing, right? Donuts are kind of delicious. But that's not the point. But is that doesn't do you any good if you have an administration just lets chemical companies pollute your air and water. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Like, as we've seen in a. Like, this is to me a good example too. Like, there was a long running failure of the establishment to address, like, legitimate concerns about the chemicals in our foods and the proliferation of processed foods. There were no consequences for switching to skim milk. Like, look, there's good reasons for people to not be drinking whole milk every fucking day. But like, we cut fat from all kinds of foods. That America gained a trillion pounds. And like, we're paying a huge price for it now. And this, now, like, this, there is real reason for people to be like, wait a second, why didn't we address some of these things? Why didn't we pull some of these chemicals out? Of course, these people are also going after, like, what is a threat to our society. It's like, it's not an occasional donut. People should have a fucking measles. It's measles. Measles. It's measles.

[Jon Favreau]

But even on the, Even on the chemicals in the food, they have done absolutely nothing on the regulatory.

[Tommy Vietor]

They've made it worse.

[Jon Favreau]

They've made it worse.

[Jon Lovett]

And so it's all just about like personal security.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

You have a public service message from Mike Tyson telling you to get the.

[Jon Lovett]

Donut out of your mouth.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, it's just forever. Chemicals all the way down.

[Jon Favreau]

And you have the president not leading by example, which is cool.

[Jon Lovett]

And yes. Who better to take health advice from than RFK Jr. A man who always looks, sounds and acts like he is the sole survivor of a cruise ship sinking and was just rescued from a life raft found on the open seas.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm not scared of a germ. You know, I used to snort cocaine off a toilet seats.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, stop again.

[Jon Favreau]

I just. I want to know the situation where he was snorting the cocaine off the toilet seats.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We're presuming he spilled cocaine on the toilet seats.

[Jon Favreau]

That was what I've been saying. I think that he spilled it. He spilled it on the toilet seat. He says plural and he was. Yeah, well, maybe it happened a couple times.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He needed a flat surface in a. In the club, the Studio 54.

[Jon Favreau]

So many other flat surfaces besides the toilet.

[Tommy Vietor]

The floor, the tank. His keys.

[Jon Lovett]

I was gonna say his credit card.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Maybe he likes to cut his cocaine with butt.

[Jon Lovett]

Maybe there's something. There's something thrilling about it. Something dangerous and exciting about snorting cocaine. Off a toilet seat. Don't knock it till you try it, Dan. Sorry, what was that?

[Jon Favreau]

I didn't want.

[Jon Lovett]

Anyway, this is the person in charge of public health, a man who doesn't really worry about germs because of the places he used to do cocaine.

[Jon Favreau]

The donut will kill you, though.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, watch out for the donut. Watch out for a little sugar and frosting after, you know, a little treat at the end of the day. Go fuck yourself. And that's okay. Stop.

[Jon Favreau]

All right, so there's no shortage of Democratic leaders sounding off about what the party should be doing right now. Our old boss, Barack Obama just sat down for an interview with our. With our good friend Brian Tyler Cohen, which is making waves mostly for this exchange. Are aliens real?

[Barack Obama]

They're real, but I haven't seen them and they're not being kept in, what is it?

[Jon Lovett]

Area 51.

[Barack Obama]

Area 51? There's no underground facility. Unless there's this enormous conspiracy and they hid it from the President of the United States.

[Jon Lovett]

What was the first question you wanted answered when you became President?

[Barack Obama]

Where are the aliens?

[Jon Lovett]

Where are the aliens?

[Jon Favreau]

So for some reason that we can talk about, Obama after this, took the rare step of clarifying what he meant there in a follow up post. I can't remember him ever doing this in a minute where he said that he was, quote, just trying to stick with the spirit of the speed round.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Which has always been a passion of his.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes. And all he meant was that, quote, statistically the universe is so vast that the odds are good there's life out there. But that, quote, I saw no evidence during my presidency that extraterrestrials had made contact with us, period. Really? Period. That should clear things up, I think. Tommy, you've been privy to more highly classified government secrets than the rest of us. What do you think's going on here? You buying his answer? Did someone get to him?

[Tommy Vietor]

I'm wondering that too. I mean, look, I don't want to disappoint the kind of X Files ancient alien stands out there.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's what I expect you to say.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. Look, I do not think that Barack Obama was just sort like, of, of like casually confirming the existence of aliens in the 44th minute of a 47 minute YouTube interview in the speed round. Right. Like, I love Brian. He's like a actually dear friend of mine. I don't think Obama gave him the scoop of the century in the speed round of the interview. I think what he's referencing there is Lovett can get into this too The Drake Equation, like the, The. The universe is very large. There's a lot of stars. There's even more planets. Many of them may be habitable. You do a little math, Dipsy Doo. Probably some life out there. Maybe they're too far away to contact them. Maybe they came and went and we're all in different eras. We don't know now. Maybe I'm an unwitting tool of the deep state.

[Jon Favreau]

And the deep state you want us to think about.

[Tommy Vietor]

The deep state is deeper than we ever could have imagined. But mostly what I learned in government is I believed less and less in conspiracy theories like this because people can't keep a secret and shit leaks constantly. And if they were. If Donald Trump knew that aliens existed, he would. He would have monetized it by now. They would. Alien crypto coin.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They would never tell him.

[Jon Lovett]

There's. Look, there's three possibilities. There are aliens and they didn't tell Barack Obama. There are aliens and they didn't tell Barack Obama, or there are aliens and they did tell Barack Obama, but they didn't tell Donald Trump.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Donald Trump would not have been able to keep it secret.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I actually. It wasn't until he put out the clarifying statement that I was convinced in my bones that there are aliens and Barack Obama knows about them 100%. Of all the things to clarify, have you ever in a decade seen him clarify something like this?

[Tommy Vietor]

I know exactly what happened here. He went from having an entire White House comms office to one guy who was like, I'm so sick of dealing with the incoming calls on this shit. Let's just get an Instagram up and, like, do it.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Spokesman for the Deep State, Tommy Vitor.

[Jon Favreau]

It was a fast clarification, too.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

When I was 24 hours out of.

[Jon Lovett]

That interview, when I said he. Yes. What I actually meant was I actually read something about Fermi's paradox. And.

[Jon Favreau]

Anyway, Obama also had some thoughts on the more earthly challenges that we're facing, particularly what the Democratic Party is facing, and he talked a lot about that in this interview.

[Barack Obama]

At some point, you age out. You're not connected directly to the immediate struggles that folks are going through. Democrats do well when we have candidates who are plugged into the moment, to the zeitgeist, to the times, and the particular struggles that folks are thinking about as they look towards the future rather than look backward toward the past. Voters are not going to agree with us 100% on everything. And so it is not a sellout, it's not a betrayal to Say that we're going to shape our agenda and our message in a way that allows us to build a working majority to get stuff done. And I think particularly around social issues, sometimes we get confused around this. Our long term goals have to be driven by our values and our core beliefs and our ethics and our morals and the sense that every person counts. And short term, we got to win elections. They are doing such crazy stuff that it shouldn't be hard for our side to coalesce around the areas where we agree on and focus on that that is going to happen. If we are effective in winning the midterms, if we then have a robust primary for who's going to be the next Democratic president, we shouldn't be afraid of having a robust debate.

[Jon Favreau]

So. Dan, at the beginning there, he was talking about Democrats needing younger candidates and he said he didn't have a hard and fast rule, but that perhaps the party should look to younger candidates. Perhaps he was trying.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, he was trying to college during the Dust Bowl.

[Jon Favreau]

He was trying to be as polite as possible there, but that's what he was referencing. What did you think about his answer there?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it's obviously true, right? I mean, there is. You can trace almost all of the problems the Democratic Party and frankly the country have had over the last decade by the fact that the Democratic Party has been led by, by establishment politicians in their 70s.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's just. It is. And that comes in two forms. One, three forms, actually. The first one Obama makes is a really important point, which is the longer you've been in politics, the more detached you are from the everyday struggles of people. Obama used to tell us in 2008 that if he had lost that election, he would not really be able to run again four years later because he would have been so removed from. What gave him real power was that he and Michelle had just finished paying off their student loans at that point. It had only been a couple years earlier. They were struggling to make their mortgage. He knew what it was like to struggle. And if you've been in politics for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, you just don't know that. Right. Second, we say all the time that politics is downstream from culture. And that's kind of a trite saying, but it is true in that you need candidates who are connected to the cultural zeitgeist, who can understand, who can relate to people, who can communicate about things other than just policy issues that relate to people. Obama was great at that. Our last couple nominees have not been great at that. And then the third Thing is, you need someone, a younger person is inherently going to be better at communicating in the modern way. Right. Someone who knows how to communicate. And how people communicate now, right, to. They understand. TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, they understand means they just can do it in a way that if you've been in politics for 30, 40 years, you cannot. Joe Biden did understand one single bit of how people communicated now, and that was a huge detriment. Now, I think there's one thing important here, which is young people are more likely to do those things. They're certainly more likely to be culturally connected, to be, like, maybe even cool. But it's not a guarantee that all younger people are. JD Vance is very young, and he is a fucking goober.

[Tommy Vietor]

Good point.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it is, though. It is a function of not just age, but the amount of time you've been in Washington. I do think that is a. A really good point, because when you spend your life in Congress or you spend your life in Washington, like, you just. You have a different lifestyle than most people in the country. And even if you got there knowing exactly how people in your district or where you're from are living, like, you just lose touch with that after a while. And you see that with people in Congress, like, that's what the way.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's the one exception.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, but I was. I've said this because of Bernie, actually. Right. Because Bernie's. But like Bernie's lifestyle when he goes back to Vermont is very much the same. He's still very much connected with the life that he had before. Right. Like Bernie is. And so I don't think it's impossible to be in public service for a long time and still lose touch completely, but you still have to work at it. And I think Bernie proves, like, the exception to the rule right there. Lovett, do you agree with the. Do you agree with Obama on the. On the value of the intraparty fighting and the robust debate, as he said?

[Jon Lovett]

Yes, it is absolutely true that I think the Democratic Party that emerged from the primaries in 2007, 2008, was a stronger Democratic Party. I think both the party writ large and also the Obama campaign benefited from the fact that Barack Obama campaigned across the country, including through a lot of swing states, and built a big organization. I do think, first of all, the differences in policy between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were much smaller, especially in domestic policy. They just were. That's. But at the same time, those debates got pretty fucking messy at the end, and party had to be stitched back together. Everybody did that. That worked. That's great. I think, like, we have to have be honest about the ways in which intraparty fights play out now. And they are just, they can be like, really, really cutting, really enervating. And that's okay. I just don't want to pretend that that's not the situation. And so to me, okay, that's what social media will do. We can say that's not real life, but it becomes real life. What does a politician do to address that? And I think it becomes incumbent on anyone who's going to be part of a Democratic primary in 2028, in 2027, obviously, to beginning, middle and end. Be talking about the fact that at the end of this process, we will be stitching this movement together, that we're all on the same side. I think we have to overcorrect for that in a certain way. And I actually think that often becomes a cudgel. Used to go after the left to say like, you need to unify, you need to unify, you need to unify. I think they do, and I think that's a fine argument to make. But at the same time, I think more center left politicians should become more comfortable speaking with, talking to parts of the party that are not going to be part of their coalition and maybe kind of hostile to them. But even if they get hostility toward them, speak about them as if they're part of their coalition and that their voices matter and are valued, I think, like, that has to be kind of over correction that people do, because I am worried about what happens in a kind of brutal long primary in which everyone is extremely anxious, extremely upset about what's happening to the country, extremely worried about our ability to win. And so that, that to me is part of what it will be the leader of the party will have to do.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, I worry about it from the other side too. From the left. Yeah, well, because, I mean, it's different arguments, right? The center left, if it's a center left politician and they will say like, oh, well, the lefter politician, the more progressive politician can't win. This is hopeless. Now why are we nominating this person? This is bad. We're gonna lose. They're not electable. And so they have to think about that. On the left, you get like, this person's a sellout. They're no better than the Republican candidate. Like, so it goes both ways.

[Jon Lovett]

No, no, I totally. And I like, I am confident. Like, it is not the leaders, like elected leaders on the left that are making those arguments.

[Jon Favreau]

No, that's true.

[Jon Lovett]

And I. And, like, there's nobody that fought harder for Joe Biden, even, I think, a little too long than, like, AOC and Bernie, which is, like, to their credit. And so, like, we can't make every activist or every person do the right thing in either direction. There's plenty of people that are, you know, that have loud platforms that are not going to be responsible. That's just part of it. I'm talking about what the elected leaders do, and I actually think they can do a good job of kind of at least modeling the kind of behavior we need.

[Jon Favreau]

In fact, I think the two elected leaders that did the best job of modeling that were Biden and Bernie in 2020. They both did a lot of work. Tommy, what do you think?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I mean, the intraparty fights are always the worst and the most vicious, and that's true for the right and the left, and in part because it's just. You care what those critics say? Like, when Ben Shapiro calls me, like, Tayron Tommy on Twitter, I don't give a shit because I think he's a moron and he's annoying. But when, like, did he do that all the time? But when people on the left criticize.

[Jon Favreau]

You, you're like, oh, that hurts.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, I respect those people. That kind of. That stings a bit. I do, though, think, like, I think the biggest mistake of all is when the kind of DC Class decides that they're going to anoint someone. And I think that the reason. Part of the reason some of the 2016 fights feel like they will never end is, one, if we had won, all is forgiven, but we lost. You guys remember that. But two, there is a feeling that is, I don't think, fully accurate, but not totally unfounded on the left that the party. That the primary process was unfair and rigged against Bernie Sanders, and that is. Let this perception linger. So ultimately, I think we need messy primaries. I think you can read all the polls you want, but the rubber meets the road when people vote. And that's when we really learn what people care about and what politicians are good. And the 2008 primary stripped a decade off our lives collectively. But it was great for Barack Obama. It made him a better candidate, made him a better president. I just agree with Love. It was saying, like, the thing we have to avoid or just call out is the suggestion that you are immoral or. Or a bad person, or it's a character attack if you disagree on policy. That stuff is bullshit. Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I agree with the contours around the debate we should have. But we should be brutally honest. The Democratic Party is in a state of crisis. Right. We have currently have no path to this kind of governing majority. We would need to actually defeat Maga. We have a Senate cap of 53 seats. Maybe in 2032, the Electoral College is going to move 15 to 20 votes in the Republican direction. Like our current electoral coalition, even if it has improved since Trump lost, is not sufficient to actually build a governing majority. We have to have a giant debate. Our party leadership is out of touch and sclerotic and we don't have the infrastructure we need. We have to have a big, giant, messy debate about who we are, what we stand for, and who should be in charge of this party. Because if we don't, we may win. We literally, we really could win in 2028 simply because Donald Trump sucks and JD Vance sucks even more. But that is just what happened in 2020, which is we won one presidency, we didn't solve any of our problems, and we were right back where we were before. So we need to think big, and we're only gonna think big. We have a big, messy primary and we are open to out of the box ideas, candidates who may not seem electable right away. We just have to have a lot of humility and openness to a real messy, important debate.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I agree with that. But a messy debate is. We can't have the future you want without a messy debate. But a messy debate is no guarantee that people show up to the table with what we need.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's right.

[Jon Lovett]

And so that, like, to me, yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, I think Obama's point there that I found very important is when he said we have to realize that, you know, not 100% of voters are going to agree with everything we said, which seems like an obvious point. But I think that wherever you stand in the Democratic Party, from your vantage point, you think that, like, oh, yeah, my position is actually the position that is most popular in the party and that can carry the whole party. And it's just. And the other politicians don't actually realize that because they're at fault. And the truth is, like, it's a very demographically politically diverse coalition. And it has become more demographically and politically diverse partly because it has to be so broad to beat Donald Trump's coalition right now. Like, we are just a much more diverse coalition than Donald Trump's coalition politically, identity wise, geographically, all of it. And so because of that, there's gonna be a lot more argument, a lot of different positions and whether you're on the left, whether you're on the center left, wherever you are, you're just gonna have to realize that like most people in the party aren't necessarily gonna agree with all your positions. And that doesn't mean to like sand down all your positions so that you can be like the lowest common denominator politician and like have everyone agree with you. But it does mean that like, you know, you have to realize that you're not going to please everyone all the time and you're going to take some positions that piss people off.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, you're 100% right. We have like, we have to recognize that we need to, we need to build a majority and we have to have to appeal to people who disaggrow lots of things. My just like operating principle going into this primary is I want to think bigger than just who can win in 2028. Because I think if all we do is win in 2028 and then lose after that, we are fucked. And so you really have to think big about who is the canu who has the potential to change the electoral coalition in the way that Obama did in 2008.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

Over the next year, we have to focus on winning our midterm elections. We can't get sucked up into the horse race for an election that is two full years from now, is what we normally say, but not tonight. And so, in this hat, we have the names of many of 2028's rumored hopefuls. And hopeless. We will each choose a candidate, and we will each make our case for that candidate, and then we will duke it out. This is real. We are choosing at random, and we will fight for our candidate. At the end, you will vote on who you believe should be the nominee from this field. Okay? In a segment we're calling Playing the Field.

[Jon Favreau]

And also for everyone listening at home, for everyone who clips this, we are playing a game. We are each playing our role for our candidate.

[Tommy Vietor]

These are called straw man arguments.

[Jon Favreau]

It does not reflect what each of us actually believe about the candidates.

[Jon Lovett]

We're just making arguments. I. I swear to fucking God.

[Jon Favreau]

So I will start. And my candidate is. JB Pritzker.

[Jon Lovett]

My candidate is Pete Buttigieg.

[Tommy Vietor]

My candidate is Rahm Emanuel.

[Jon Lovett]

Cheer for me.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

My candidate is AOC.

[Jon Lovett]

Wow. Wow.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, Pander.

[Jon Lovett]

All right. We're gonna try to. John, take it away for 30 seconds.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay? I think the case for JB Pritzker is that he is an incredibly successful governor of one of the largest states in the country. He has been one of the loudest, fiercest voices against Donald Trump. So he knows how to fight, but he also knows how to govern. He has raised the minimum wage in Illinois he has also reduced the budget deficit in Illinois. He's passed criminal justice reform. He's protected abortion rights and so on. Issue after issue. He has shown that you can actually govern and progressively if you have the opportunity. He has executive experience. He also has, he is very, very rich, which means that he can fund this campaign and he's not going to be beholden to corporate special interests, which is pretty good. So he's not and we've had a, we just, you know, he, class traitors are some of the most committed, committed converts. And So I think J.B. pritzker, the reason that he's been getting so much attention is because he's out there. He is not afraid to fight Donald Trump. He's not afraid to punch Republicans in the face. And he also has shown in his state that he can protect the people of Illinois from authoritarians like Donald Trump and, and that he can also govern in a progressive way that actually has improved people's lives in Illinois.

[Jon Lovett]

Pete buttigieg. Two things I think we all would, I think, agree about Pete Buttigieg. One, no one has done a better job taking the argument to conservative spaces than Pete Buttigieg. We just, we just went through an election where some of the most important conversations were not five minutes or seven minutes, but they were hour long, hour and a half long conversations. People who have not just a soundbite but have the ability to actually make a deep and well thought out argument that can appeal to people beyond our base. We know that Pete can do that. That brings my second reason. Why do we know that Pete can do that? Because I think we all instinctively view Pete Buttigieg as the smartest, one of the smartest people in Democratic politics. If there's anybody now do I think Pete Buttigieg right now has all the answers for how Democrats win in places we haven't won since Ben Nelson left his, his seat in Nebraska. No, I don't think Pete Buttigieg has all the answers. But do I think Pete Buttigieg is, has the same concern that Dan has and is thinking about it when he's lying awake at night next to a sweet and sleeping Chastain? I do think, I think Pete is completely aware of this challenge and is thinking about it. And I think knowing that we have a problem president that is has the capacity to think about these long term challenges and how to address them and has how to connect it to the policy and the politics of the moment would be quite a reassuring thing for us to have.

[Tommy Vietor]

Rahm Emanuel is the most Qualified candidate in the field by far. He was White House Chief of Staff. He was a member of Congress. He was the mayor of a city of 2.75 million people. He was the US ambassador to Japan. The man is ready to do the job on day one. He has seen the nuclear codes. Have you guys seen the nuclear codes? No. None of these clowns have seen the nuclear codes. Also, he's a winner. In 2006, Rahm Emanuel led the DCCC. Democrats won 30 seats. Bill Clinton won the presidency two times. Rahm Emanuel was the intellectual firepower behind those campaigns. On top of that, he's a fighter, he's tough. People always say, oh, the Democrats are too nice. Not my Rahm, not my Rom. That's why we need him on that ticket.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

How do you guys feel about aoc? Now here's what some Washington elites are going to tell you. They're going to say she can't win. Do you know who else? Whatever is right. Do you know who else they said that about Barack Obama. They said he couldn't win. They said, you got anything else here.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm going to give you. You know what?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Let me make my case, okay?

[Tommy Vietor]

I just asked, who'd you have again?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I don't even remember. Here's the thing. I think the way in which the Democratic Party can regain the majority in this country, how we can return to our roots is we need a politics that comes from the outside, that is reform and that is based on working class people and ideas. And we need a candidate who can actually communicate in this environment, who can go toe to toe with a right wing media machine. And there is no better communicator and no better messenger in the Democratic Party than aoc. Does she have hurdles? Yes, she absolutely does. But I believe she has the talent, the background. She is someone who is a true outsider in American politics. Her time as a bartender is a way in which you can relate to working class people. She can appeal to young people and Latinos. The two groups who abandoned the Democrats in 2024. Which is the difference between the big Obama era coalition we had back 2008, 2012, and the ones in which we barely won in 2020, we lost in 2024. And it is a big bet, right, because she is an untested candidate compared to some of these other people like Rahm Emanuel. But you're goddamn right it is a bet I'd be willing to make because I think she has the highest ceiling of any candidate in this field. The one candidate we've even talked about is the possibility to truly alter American politics in a way that can defeat Mega.

[Jon Lovett]

Now it's the question round. We'll start with JB Pritzker. Now, John, JB Pritzker is a billionaire. His wealth comes from the Hyatt Hotel.

[Jon Favreau]

Correct.

[Jon Lovett]

Chain. Yeah. He has been wealthy his entire life, from the day that he was born. How will he relate to the struggles of working people?

[Jon Favreau]

I want to know which one of your candidates passed a $15 minimum wage for that affected one of the biggest states in the country?

[Tommy Vietor]

Rahm Emanuel did.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, Rahm. So Rahm didn't. AOC Definitely hasn't. And Pete, I don't know if he did it in South Bend.

[Tommy Vietor]

So.

[Jon Lovett]

That'S a great accomplishment. I'm really glad that JP and it's.

[Jon Favreau]

Weird because he's so rich, but he still does.

[Jon Lovett]

How's he gonna campaign when he's so.

[Tommy Vietor]

Busy playing poker all the time?

[Jon Lovett]

All he does is play poker.

[Jon Favreau]

I have a question that's interesting because I think John Lovett wants to hang out with JB Pritzker more than any other candidate. Is that what you said?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, that is right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Does he mean it was hanging out with White House?

[Jon Favreau]

It's something called the beer test. Right. Who would you want to have a beer with? And I believe you have chosen JB.

[Jon Lovett]

Pritzker and as the median American voter, gay podcast host from Los Angeles, California. No, but seriously, I agree that JB Pritzker has great accomplishments, but sincerely address the question of how will JB Pritzker, someone who has never had to worry about money for a day in his life, who's been wealthy since the day he was born, how does he. How does he relate to people and their regular everyday.

[Jon Favreau]

No, it's a great question. How does a billionaire relate to a country of working class Americans and get elected by those Americans? I don't know how that happens.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, I don't think Trump is good.

[Jon Favreau]

Right. Because I think he's bad. But is that because he got elected or is that because he didn't pursue policies to improve the economic lives of most people, which J.B. pritzker has in Illinois?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Jon, can I ask another question?

[Jon Favreau]

Sure.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I understand your talking points here, but J.B. pritzker is the governor of one of the most democratic states in the the country?

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What is the evidence that he could actually go into a swing state and win?

[Jon Favreau]

Like the Bronx, Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, I'll make like the Bronx.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm hearing a lot of attacks.

[Jon Favreau]

Like the Bronx or Chicago.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Your time.

[Jon Favreau]

You can ask.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I Have a fucking answer.

[Jon Favreau]

I guess the Transportation Department, that was a tough one.

[Jon Lovett]

I guess no answer for how JB Pritzker is going to appeal to the working class is by attacking every other person on the debate side.

[Jon Favreau]

I think we need a fighter. Don't we want a fighter? Don't we want someone who's going to hit back? All right, jb there was a, there was a two term president from the same state that JB Pritzker is governor of. I think his name is Barack Obama.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Many people said, yeah, the white Obama.

[Jon Favreau]

Anyone else have a question? I don't know, like I'm still waiting for a good no.

[Tommy Vietor]

Ok for Pete.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

So Pete.

[Jon Lovett]

You are not Pete. I am arguing for Pete. You are Pete. We are still ourselves tonight. You're Pete in this. We are ourselves arguing for someone.

[Tommy Vietor]

Love it on the streets, Pete in the sheets. So you were part of the, you were part of the COVID up of Joe Biden's mental decline. Won't that be a problem on the campaign trail?

[Jon Lovett]

So that's a pretty salacious allegation for someone that was pretty focused on making sure the planes landed and took off, which they almost all day. I was, I had a lot on my plate. He had a lot on his plate.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Fuck.

[Jon Lovett]

He was working on making sure that we had, you know, rail and trains going where they're supposed to go. And, and by the way, look, here's the thing. Pete Buttigieg wasn't really like, wasn't there a big train crash in Ohio which he could not stop?

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Look, obviously most of the planes in.

[Jon Favreau]

The air and most of the trains on the rails.

[Jon Lovett]

Obviously in hindsight, Joe Biden was very old.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. What did Pete say after the debate? Did Pete say anything about him after the debate? He said, great job, boss.

[Jon Lovett]

We have got to make sure these planes are good. I am focused on the planes. The planes are also old. Again, not Pete's fault, but he's going to make sure they land safely.

[Jon Favreau]

It's weird, but it's weird because getting.

[Jon Lovett]

Our aging decrepit infrastructure to work as best as it could from the White House to the fucking Amtrak.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's weird though, Pete, I was like, why was he, he was so focused on the trains. But I thought you said he was one of the best communicators in the party. It can go into all the other spaces and talk about politics. But it was just didn't do that with Biden.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Jon Lovett]

So just did the plane and just remind me, when did JB Pritzker Turn against Joe Biden. Was it before the debate or long after?

[Jon Favreau]

Definitely before Pete.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, Pete's in the administration and again, planes, trains automobiles.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, couple of questions. So one of the things that was the downfall of Kamala Harris was she was in the 2020 primary and she stood on stage, she filled a lot of questionnaires. She stood on stage and raised her hands for a lot of very, A lot of issues that were quite unpopular. Pete raised his hand at every single one when Kamala Harris did. How worried are you? How worried is Pete about having adopted all these positions in 2020 that were so effectively weaponized against Kamala Harris?

[Jon Lovett]

So I think it's a really important question. And look, I think the two biggest liabilities Pete Buttigieg will have is A, he is connected to the Biden administration and B, he was part of the 2020 primary in which every hand is going up. I, I do think sometimes that is taken as a, the fact that that was such a liability for Kamala Harris that she could not address it is therefore a liability others cannot address. Kamala had a bigger problem which was she was unable to be honest to articulate a deeper worldview. And she struggled with that in her 107 days. I think she would have continued to struggle with that. Yes, Pete will have to address that. But I think whatever the tag people have for his being tied to the administration, which is legitimate and will be a huge problem for him, I think we all would say that Pete Buttigieg has a kind of a larger worldview that he is going to put forward, he will have to address. I don't know that it was Bidenism. I think, I think it is a center left, kind of technocratic but forward looking, probably abundance style agenda. And like whatever that's worth, I think that's be what he would put forward. But yes, he will have to answer for these things that will be hard for him to do. It will not be as hard for him to do. Kamala made it look harder than I think it would be. Someone like Pete Buttigieg.

[Jon Favreau]

One area where, in fairness, Pete is very different from Joe Biden is that Joe Biden was very popular with black voters and experienced. And I think you would agree that there's no winning the Democratic primary at all without black voters or the White House. Or the White House. And so I'm wondering after his first run where he didn't get almost any black votes and in the polls now down at around 0 and 1%. So what do you think about that?

[Jon Lovett]

Nowhere to go but up. John, here's the thing. Here's the thing. You ever have a jar of pickles and you can open it, you can open it, and you can open it, but you're loosening it, you know? And one day, boom. Black votes.

[Tommy Vietor]

Arguments like that are why Donald Trump's running train our democracy. You know who didn't run in 2020? Rahm Emanuel. Blank slate. Fresh face.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, Rahm, I have some questions for you.

[Jon Favreau]

Sure.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Talk to me about how you're. How you're gonna talk to the. How is Rahm Emanuel gonna talk to the country about. Aggressively, profanely about Rahm's integral role in doing the following things. Passing nafta, passing the Clinton crime bill, adding China to the wto.

[Tommy Vietor]

Okay, nerd.

[Jon Lovett]

I would just add to that list his being tied to police abuses during his time as mayor.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay.

[Jon Lovett]

Led many people to view him as a sort of fundamentally unacceptable choice for.

[Tommy Vietor]

The Democratic Party, not Machiavelli. First of all, people don't like crime, thus that bill. Okay? Second, NAFTA is half of mostly Canada, and we should be nicer to them, so stop being a dick. But also chief of staff, member of Congress, ambassador to Japan. He's ready for the job.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They won. Here's the thing. I'm being dead serious here, because I was there to see it. Rahm, he was a very effective chief of staff for Barack Obama. Very effective. Obama's probably most famous accomplishment is the passage of the Affordable Care Act. Rahm, famously, and I was in the meeting where he did it, argued that we should abandon it and take a smaller bill. So, like, how is he can't even. What is his argument when he can't even take credit for Obama's top accomplishment?

[Tommy Vietor]

Because what he wanted to do was march down to Wall street, grab a banker, put him on a spit, and roast him like a hog on C Span, and Obama wouldn't let him do it.

[Jon Lovett]

Oh.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Tommy Vietor]

The facts offend you.

[Jon Favreau]

I assume you have documentation of this.

[Jon Lovett]

So Rahm Emanuel, the tribune of the working class in the White House, was stymied by the neolib shill Barack Obama. That's your claim. Who believes in aliens? Now.

[Tommy Vietor]

That'S a possible argument we'll make. Yeah. Okay.

[Jon Favreau]

Should we go?

[Jon Lovett]

I want to say about Pete Buttigieg and black voters. No, keep going.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What do you guys got? So, Dan, this is being recorded, you know.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, no, I know.

[Tommy Vietor]

I know.

[Jon Favreau]

I know what your.

[Tommy Vietor]

Your.

[Jon Favreau]

Your single advantage is.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Never seen someone so cocky pushing on an open door.

[Jon Favreau]

So of all these candidates, I think that the one with the highest name identification is probably yours, correct?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I would say it's probably Kamala Harris.

[Jon Favreau]

Of the ones that are on the states right now.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes, that's true. Close call with Pete. I think Pete might have higher name id, but it's close.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay, and who has the worst net approval rating in the country? Romicide.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Who has the highest. Let me ask you this question. Who has the highest approval rating with young voters?

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, is just young voters voting now in the American election.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it'd be nice if they voted for us.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, is here. Look, are Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan just young voters now? That's amazing.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

All right, slow down there. Okay, billionaire boy. Here's the thing.

[Jon Favreau]

Sorry, Socialists. Go ahead.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Too late at the beginning.

[Jon Favreau]

We love socialists in America.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

AOC has a high hurdle to prove electability. And I think that one of the tests of electability, and she's gonna have to carry that argument in the primaries, in the debates. And I have great confidence that she has the communication skills to do that.

[Jon Favreau]

No, everyone loves her. Well, you're making the argument. What would you make the argument for an electability? How would that. She has never. Go ahead. How would she win an Obama Trump campaign?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No one on this stage, no one on this stage right now has won a Republican state or district.

[Jon Favreau]

No, I'm just asking aoc.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But you make the point that there was a large swap. I think it was, you know, 17, 20% of people who voted for Donald Trump and AOC in her last election. And there's a higher percentage of people, I would say, in her district who voted for Obama in Trump than voted for JB Pritzker in Trump?

[Jon Favreau]

Listen, when's the last time a progressive has ever won a purple district? Can you name a progressive, a leftist, who's ever won a purple district anywhere?

[Tommy Vietor]

Bernie Sanders.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bernie Sanders.

[Jon Favreau]

Which one is that?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What do you mean by that?

[Jon Favreau]

In a general election. When is the last time. General election. A lefty DSA progressive politician has won a purple state statewide or a district in a House district?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

There's no question that AOC's relationship with DSA is something. She's gonna have to navigate this. There's no question about that. And the way you do that is you prove it the same way. And everyone in 2008, everyone say, when could a black politician win a majority white state? And Barack Obama won Iowa, and he proved to people they could do it. The only way that AOC can win the nomination is she has to Go whatever the first state is, which is going to most likely be like, a Michigan or a Georgia or New Hampshire, whatever it is, she's going to have to go in and win it.

[Tommy Vietor]

If Rahm Emanuel went to the Munich Security Conference and got asked about Taiwan, he would hit that over the Chukar. Is that a thing in cricket now?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No.

[Jon Favreau]

Something else.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

He would knock it out of the park.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

There's no question. I say what I'm saying is that people should believe. People should go with their hearts.

[Jon Lovett]

But. So, John, to your point, though. Yeah, like, I agree, right. That, like, right now, right, we would say it's an uphill climb for someone on the left as AOC to win a national race. But you would say that she would be a good president, right?

[Jon Favreau]

Are you now just arguing for AOC so the fucking audience can.

[Jon Lovett]

No, no, no.

[Jon Favreau]

But.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, but I'm saying that this is the problem, right?

[Jon Lovett]

That's like, if what we're talking about is electability. Electability is not a. Is electability can't simply be a snapshot of how people view politicians before the primary.

[Tommy Vietor]

Electability is sitting right here.

[Jon Lovett]

No, for sure it is. But, like, you would have to then be saying not only is she seen as someone who is divisive or to the left in a way that's not appealing to enough people, but that she does not have the capacity to change that. And, like, don't we think, like, if we are going. If we. If things are as dire as Dan is saying in our politics, wouldn't it be worth it to take a chance on the possibility that we can reshape our politics around someone that we all would view as somebody who has kind of politics?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Here's the thing.

[Jon Lovett]

Here's the thing.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'll say it is a. There's no question it's a big risk, but there's no one on the stage who's not a big risk. Right. We always thought Pete Buttigieg was too big a risk. For sure. He's Rahm Emanuel. Whatever.

[Jon Lovett]

I agree that Rahm Emanuel would be a pretty big fucking risk.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

JB Pritzker is an untested proposition. Who's ever won Republican voters. What I believe is that the way the Democrats have to move is we need a politics based on working class people, working class ideas. And the person in the Democratic Party on this list, in this hat, best able to do that is aoc Based on. Based on the fact that.

[Jon Favreau]

Based on what?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Based on the fact that she has done it where Barack Obama won Illinois and then he won the country. She's gonna have to.

[Jon Favreau]

Do you think Barack Obama's positions when he ran were to the left or to the right of AOCs right now?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, I think everyone is. The politics have changed. But he was the most left candidate in that field and he won because.

[Jon Favreau]

Of his position on the Iraq war. Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He was more liberal on the biggest.

[Tommy Vietor]

Issue of the time and he mogged.

[Jon Favreau]

And he did mog.

[Tommy Vietor]

He was good looking and he was she mogs too.

[Jon Lovett]

And I would love to get a beer with JB Pritzker.

[Jon Favreau]

And I think Pete's brilliant.

[Jon Lovett]

All right, from this, this is the final debate stage.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You are based on the arguments, based.

[Jon Lovett]

On the arguments you have heard tonight. Are you voting for JB Pritzker?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No.

[Jon Lovett]

Are you voting for Sweet Pete Buttigieg? Are you voting for Rahm Emanuel? Wow. Pretty good. And that was it. Right? And aoc.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow.

[Tommy Vietor]

Too close to call.

[Jon Favreau]

The swing district of Sydney.

[Jon Lovett]

We're gonna listen. Let's see how she does in Brisbane. Honestly, she did pretty well and that's playing the field.

[Jon Favreau]

That's our show, Sydney. Thank you so much. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com friends to subscribe on Super Cast Substack, YouTube or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Cricut. Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our producer is Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglit and Charlotte Landis. Matt de Groat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Kiril Pelaviev, David Toles and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.