Jon Favreau (1:36)

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Jon Favreau (2:57)

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

Alex Wagner (2:59)

And I'm Alex Wagner. I can't believe saying that when I'm here with you. It makes it even better.

Jon Favreau (3:04)

It's so great. This is our first Sunday show of the year. You guys asked for more Pod Save America and you got it. There's gonna be a new episode in your feed every Sunday of 2026.

Alex Wagner (3:13)

Oh my God.

Jon Favreau (3:14)

How exciting is that?

Alex Wagner (3:15)

And this year's been 200 years long already, so there should be 200 extra episodes of Pod Save America.

Jon Favreau (3:22)

We're all gonna take turns hosting, including our but longtime pal Alex Wagner right here in studio.

Alex Wagner (3:28)

I mean, I see.

Jon Favreau (3:29)

How lucky am I?

Alex Wagner (3:30)

Listen, you gotta kick the year off right when the world is melting. You go to a hot place. You go to California. And I'm so thrilled to be here.

Jon Favreau (3:36)

Come more often.

Alex Wagner (3:37)

There are. The snack selection's gotten a lot better since I was last here. I gotta say. I don't know whether that's related to my contract or what.

Jon Favreau (3:43)

We, we tried to ask for some healthier snacks.

Alex Wagner (3:46)

Well, I don't know that I'd say that that's what happened. There's just more of them.

Jon Favreau (3:49)

Well, we tried to get. We didn't want to take away the unhealthy snacks. We just wanted a little bit more of a balance.

Alex Wagner (3:54)

Yeah, I knew so much candy. But I guess we're all blind to. I mean, I'm blind to the healthy snacks. There just seemed a bounty and I was grateful.

Jon Favreau (4:02)

I'm biased, of course, but I'm a huge fan of your new show, Runaway country, the newest addition to the Cricket Network.

Alex Wagner (4:08)

Oh, it is such a.

Jon Favreau (4:09)

How's it been going?

Alex Wagner (4:10)

Well, it's great because you're on it this week. That's why you might be by.

Jon Favreau (4:14)

It was so good this week.

Alex Wagner (4:14)

That's why it was so good.

Jon Favreau (4:15)

Particularly excellent episode if I do say so myself.

Alex Wagner (4:18)

Yeah, I gotta say, flu ridden Ben Rhodes is the best. Ben Rhodes, Yeah. Hot, hot on the mic this week. Everyone was hot. I mean, we came back to a motherfucker of a year. Really. I mean, what a what a what a what a series of events to bear witness to. And Runaway country this week focused on Venezuela. We talked to some Venezuelans about their opinions of all of this, which is interesting and not exactly what you think. And then we got hot, spicy hot takes from Jon Favreau. And Ben Rhodes.

Jon Favreau (4:48)

It's always great being a guest on a show like that because I'm more measured as a host.

Alex Wagner (4:55)

You let it rip.

Jon Favreau (4:56)

As a moderating.

Alex Wagner (4:57)

Yeah, you let it rip.

Jon Favreau (4:58)

And that I didn't have any.

Alex Wagner (4:59)

You know, you saw that train with no brakes. Did not give you throttled it up.

Jon Favreau (5:03)

No fucks. As you mentioned, you know, the first week of 2026 felt like several lifetimes, none of which I would enjoy living again. But somehow we have a huge year ahead of us.

Alex Wagner (5:16)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (5:17)

It's America's 250th birthday.

Alex Wagner (5:20)

That's what I've been thinking. That's what I thought. New Year's Day, man, I thought, America, you look great for 250.

Jon Favreau (5:26)

250. The country is being run by an aging autocrat who is engaged in mind boggling corruption and hemispheric domination. He's got an army of masked agents on the streets. One just killed an unarmed American citizen. But in November, this November.

Alex Wagner (5:47)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (5:47)

He will face, for one of the very last times in his life, an electorate.

Alex Wagner (5:53)

Make it so.

Jon Favreau (5:54)

An electorate that has never been this angry with him over how he's handling the economy. And their votes will decide just how much of a lame duck Trump is and what the race will look like to finally replace him. So chill year ahead.

Alex Wagner (6:10)

Chill. What could go wrong?

Jon Favreau (6:13)

And as everyone knows here at Pod Save America, we're still not in the prediction business, though it seems that's like literally become quite a business now, the prediction business.

Alex Wagner (6:22)

I mean, people want any kind of map to be uncertainty.

Jon Favreau (6:26)

Now we're just betting, now we're making bets.

Alex Wagner (6:27)

Yeah, Polymarket.

Jon Favreau (6:29)

But I thought what could be useful is we're not going to do predictions, but we could talk about the biggest political questions on our minds for the year ahead. What we think will be the most consequential, what we'll be paying closest attention to, what. What we think will tell us the most about where we're headed. That kind of thing. So we're each gonna do six questions for 20, 26.

Alex Wagner (6:50)

Maybe six and a half.

Jon Favreau (6:51)

Unless we have more.

Alex Wagner (6:52)

Right.

Jon Favreau (6:53)

And aren't too tied for the 6 to 26 bit.

Alex Wagner (6:56)

Oh, good.

Jon Favreau (6:57)

Then it's just chaos.

Alex Wagner (6:58)

That's right.

Jon Favreau (6:58)

We can do what we want. We'll call it 6 for 26. We'll call it 8 for 26.

Alex Wagner (7:01)

Dude, it's the era of Trump. Everybody can do whatever we want.

Jon Favreau (7:04)

We can do whatever we want.

Alex Wagner (7:05)

Exactly.

Jon Favreau (7:05)

But I thought it would be fun to do some questions. So why don't We. You can start us off.

Alex Wagner (7:09)

Oh, my God. Okay.

Jon Favreau (7:10)

What's the first question you have for 2026?

Alex Wagner (7:12)

Well, I do think the Dems are gonna take back the House. Right. Question involves the interregnum period in and around lame duck sort of.

Jon Favreau (7:19)

Gosh, we're already there.

Alex Wagner (7:20)

We're already at the end of the year. We're gonna go rewind to other parts of the year. But I think in terms of, like, sort of pressing issues, when the Democrats take back the House, I'm interested to know which White House official becomes the subject of the first House investigation. And I specifically am interested in whether it's Pete Hegseth for the boat murders, Cash Patel for the FBI purges, and what he's done to the department, or maybe Pam Bondi for Epstein. I mean, there's a lot to choose from.

Jon Favreau (7:44)

There is.

Alex Wagner (7:44)

And I do think that there's gonna be an enorm amount of interest in terms of how Democrats organize themselves. And I'd like to know how they sort of process the air and think about which villain to sort of investigate and haul before Congress first.

Jon Favreau (7:59)

That's such a good question. And it raises a number of other questions in my mind, which is, do the officials comply?

Alex Wagner (8:07)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (8:08)

Do they decide that it's Congress and fought Congress? Yep. You can send your subpoenas, and we can ignore them. And then what are you gonna do? Get the Justice Department.

Alex Wagner (8:19)

And what do Democrats do if that happens?

Jon Favreau (8:20)

And what do Democrats do? Because isn't there some kind of a congressional sergeant someone can do something there?

Alex Wagner (8:27)

Yes, I think. Well, they can be held in contempt of Congress. Right. And we know there's that Steve Bannon. I mean, there's. There's.

Jon Favreau (8:33)

At some point. At some point, though, it probably does have to go to the Justice Department.

Alex Wagner (8:35)

Yes.

Jon Favreau (8:36)

Which is Donald Trump's Justice Department.

Alex Wagner (8:37)

Yes, it's true. Which is ironic because we might be investigating Department of Justice to officials and potentially the head of the Justice Department. I did look into, like, the strength of a preemptive presidential pardon. And as it intersects with a congressional investigation. It doesn't matter. They're separate branches of the government. You know, I think the question of accountability is gonna be a big one if we lose any of Trump's murderer's row of idiots. That's such a weird combination of metaphors. Like, if Pete Hegseth leaves or is fired, if Kash Patel leaves or is fired, if Pambani leaves or is fired, do they get pardons on their way out the door? I assume so. Like, if There are departures this year. I think it'll be interesting to see what Trump's strategy is for this administration has absolutely committed crimes, and this could be a good test year to see what the end of the Trump administration might look like in terms of that.

Jon Favreau (9:26)

So the other option, aside from them just saying we're gonna defy the subpoenas.

Alex Wagner (9:32)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (9:32)

Is what they have been doing this year when they were before Congress, which is they just go and they treat it as a way to perform for Donald Trump and the Fox audience and right wing audience beyond that and just say whatever they want to say. The value to me in the subpoena power is less about the test we get and the documents.

Alex Wagner (9:56)

You get the documents.

Jon Favreau (9:57)

And that I wonder about because there's a lot of documents that you can.

Alex Wagner (10:01)

Get from the investigation. That is the substance, that is the meat, as it were, John. And that stuff really matters. And that's not something they can prevent from coming out.

Jon Favreau (10:10)

And then there's the question that they're gonna have to wrestle with. And you're gonna start hearing, cause Democrats will run on affordability. And let's say we win, right. Then it's gonna be like, well, did you win the House? And now all you're gonna do is just investigations. And then there's the whole impeachment question.

Alex Wagner (10:27)

Well, right. That was like a secondary concern because that's obviously front of mine with regards to Trump. He's already talked about it in front of the House Republicans who gathered at the Trump Kennedy center earlier this year. He's terrified of being impeached for a third time. And it's gonna be. I mean, I do think that there is, it is without question a better thing for the health of our democracy to have an opposition party in charge of one branch of government, and specifically the Democrats. And if they control at least the lower chamber, there's gonna be. I think it'll be a shot in the arm for Democratic organization. And I think the movement right now has proven really robust at the grassroots level. Right. The citizen engagement in our politics is undeniable. But you do need a tip of the spear that has investigatory power, subpoena power, and just is in government. So it will be helpful to have Democrats up there in control of the lower chamber. But there are gonna be a lot of questions about how the part how aggressively the party looks backward to this year and to the year before. And in terms of what Trump has done and manages, that question of accountability and whether that's. They want to tackle, which increasingly Seems like an academic exercise, even though I don't think it is. I think it is essential to the work of democracy to hold people accountable who occupy positions of power, if not for this generation, then for the next.

Jon Favreau (11:50)

Especially after this last year that we've had, and especially what we learned from the administration between the two Trump administrations, you know, as Merrick Garland in the Justice Department.

Alex Wagner (12:04)

Well.

Jon Favreau (12:04)

Right.

Alex Wagner (12:04)

I mean, we learned nothing.

Jon Favreau (12:05)

Right. All right, here's my first question.

Alex Wagner (12:07)

Yeah. Yeah, man.

Jon Favreau (12:08)

How do most midterm voters feel about the economy this summer? Because to me, there's a lot of political science research around this that impressions harden about two to three months before the election, maybe a little before that. There's always exceptions, of course, but that's usually when it happens. And I do think how voters feel about the economy is highly, highly correlated with how they feel about Donald Trump and will be highly correlated to how they vote.

Alex Wagner (12:40)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (12:41)

Whether they vote for Republicans or Democrats in the midterm, and particularly the voters who have not made up their minds.

Alex Wagner (12:49)

Who are those voters? My God. But anyway. Yes.

Jon Favreau (12:51)

And they could make up their. Not just should I vote for a Republican or should I vote for a Democrat, but should I vote at all? Should I even come out to vote? And those people will make up their minds, most likely on economic issues.

Alex Wagner (13:05)

Well, we're gonna be awash in Venezuelan oil this summer, so. So, yeah, travel's gonna be super cheap. And I, you know, bully for Trump. I think, you know, it'll be interesting. I kind of wonder whether that old thinking holds true for a year like this. Just because we've been. The American public has been so Both naturally interested in affordability because they're broke. And there's a sort of. The economic pain has been so ongoing. Right. Like, January is a month of premium insurance. Insurance premium hikes. And that's an affordability issue as it. As much as it is a question about health insurance and ethics. And I feel like there's gonna be a collective burden in terms of the economy that is with the American public in a way that maybe in other more economically healthy years there necessarily hasn't been. So, you know what I mean? Like, I think the summer's gonna matter as it always does. We have the. What is it? Attention span of a nat.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (14:06)

Nat.

Alex Wagner (14:07)

But I do think it's like, you know, it's the question of economic health and the. The sense that Americans can not afford to live the lives they led even two years ago, I think is pronounced and is emotionally resonant through the other months. Of the year in a way that it isn't necessarily in other years. So I'm not trying to refute your question.

Jon Favreau (14:31)

No, no.

Alex Wagner (14:32)

But I wonder how meaningful that traditional period of decision making is, given how bad things are gonna be for the rest of the year. Wow. That was a really fucking long way of saying no.

Jon Favreau (14:41)

No, I've been thinking about this. Cause here's the challenge is that, like, I don't know, for 80, 90% of the midterm electorate, elections probably already baked.

Alex Wagner (14:50)

Yeah, totally.

Jon Favreau (14:50)

Right. It's already decided. So the people we're talking about. And for Democrats to win the House, it's not gonna take many seats, obviously. But to get the number of seats, that would feel like blue wave territory, which is obviously gonna. Would be smaller than it would be even in 18, just because there are fewer competitive seats because of gerrymandering. But that means that Democrats are gonna have to win districts that Trump won, where a Republican is sitting in the House district right now, and Democrats needs to win. And Donald Trump won in 2024 and beat Kamala Harris by five, six points. Right. Not just like, one or two.

Alex Wagner (15:26)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (15:26)

So then you have to find people who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 who were like, fuck this. This is not what I voted for. And again, we're like, what did you think you were voting for? But maybe they were like, I thought he was crazy. Yeah, I'm crazy.

Alex Wagner (15:41)

I didn't like him.

Jon Favreau (15:42)

I think he's an asshole, but I thought he was gonna manage the economy. So you need those people. And the question is, how many of those people do you get? And I think another answer to that question depends on a couple things the Supreme Court is gonna decide.

Alex Wagner (15:56)

That's my two. Question number two.

Jon Favreau (15:57)

I know. And also, we're recording this. Everyone I know.

Alex Wagner (16:00)

It's gonna be tomorrow.

Jon Favreau (16:02)

It could be tomorrow. We're recording this Thursday afternoon, everyone. So are we peeking behind if you hear something? No, that's fine. We can just. People know what we're doing here.

Alex Wagner (16:09)

We know that we're not living.

Jon Favreau (16:12)

You might be listening to this. And then maybe after this conversation, maybe there's some kind of an extra, extra interview bonus. I'm gonna let you behind the curtain. If we get a tariff decision tomorrow, we might do something extra on this.

Alex Wagner (16:24)

Well, I mean, that was my second question, which folds directly into yours, which is what happens with the Supreme Court and Trump's tariffs? Because by every indication, first of all, Trump's already giving the money away. Right? He's already saying, like, we're gonna cut checks to the American public from all this. How much did he say we have? $600 billion. He said, yeah, 600 billion. We have taken in and receiving more than $600 billion in tariffs. That's what he said this week. Just a word to the wise, I think. I believe the Official number is 1000. Companies have already preemptively sued the federal government to get their money back once the Supreme Court rules that the tariffs are not constitutional. That includes companies like Costco, Reebok, Dole, Xerox, Revlon, and Goodyear. You may have heard of them. They're not upstarts, unfortunately. They're not in our ad roll this season. These are massive companies that have had to fork over lots of money if they haven't passed it on to the consumer and are like, give us our fucking money back. This was illegal. So, you know, it's one thing for Trump to be promising the money. It's. First of all, it's one thing for Trump to think the tariffs are going to stay in place. It's another thing for him to be promising the money, and it's a third for him to actually give it away. Question is, like, if he does give it away, if he does cut checks or if he does earmark it, like, what happens if it needs to be returned? Does the Supreme Court let the tariffs that were already in place stand? I mean, there's so many questions. And also, what we hear from inside the White House is like, they're gonna figure an end run around these tariffs no matter fucking what.

Jon Favreau (17:51)

Yes.

Alex Wagner (17:52)

Which is like, how do you do that?

Jon Favreau (17:53)

And so SCOTUS decision, whatever it may be, big deal for sure, but some of the tariffs aren't subject to that decision, number one. Number two, he was just saying to the New York Times in that interview that he wants to try licensing fees.

Alex Wagner (18:08)

It's like Trump stakes.

Jon Favreau (18:10)

Yeah. If that doesn't work. And of course, some of the tariffs have already been lifted. He's already backed off some of the tariffs. So it's muddled there, I do think. And you alluded to this, he also told the New York Times that he does wanna send $2,000 tariff checks.

Alex Wagner (18:24)

Yes.

Jon Favreau (18:25)

And he thinks he can do it without Congress. And for timing, he said towards the end of the year.

Alex Wagner (18:30)

Oh, I wonder when.

Jon Favreau (18:31)

I know, I know. So I am wondering if they're gonna, like in October, just decide, we're gon out fucking checks. Go ahead, sue us and see if you be the people that say we're gonna take back $2,000 checks for the public. So I do, I have a little concerned about that. I'm just trying to think of what could change about the economy, because I think right now, if the election was held right now, we would see some of the results we saw in 2025.

Alex Wagner (18:53)

Absolutely.

Jon Favreau (18:54)

And I keep wondering, like, how could the. What levers does the administration have to change the economy and what exigent circumstances are out there that could change the economy? Jerome Powell at least change how people. Yes. So he's gonna. Fed chair. So you could get a new Fed chair that, I don't know, feels pressured to lower rates. Obviously, if it's.

Alex Wagner (19:13)

I think you don't even need to say. I don't know. I think expressly will be forced. Like, literally, he'll have to wear a T shirt to the interview that says, I will lower interest rates to send me the job.

Jon Favreau (19:22)

And then the question is there's another Supreme Court decision on whether the President can just fire Fed chairs for no reason or just Federal Reserve members for no reason. And if Trump just gets the Fed chair, which he already is going to have, then the rest of the Fed can say, well, I don't care, Trump's crazy new Fed chair. I'm just, I'm going to vote how I want to vote. But if he's now able to fire people and he puts a whole new Fed in, then we're in fucking uncharted territory. I don't know if that's actually going to improve the economy or destroy the economy, but that's a big one out there.

Alex Wagner (19:52)

Well, I mean, what it does to independent agencies and the balance of power is fucking shocking. We actually. This was a subject of runaway country. Before we went left for break, we talked to the plaintiff. She is one of the lead plaintiffs in the case is going to the Supreme Court that will determine whether or not Trump can just fire the independent heads of these agencies. And it has repercussions, of course, for the Fed and for the American economy, but it's for fucking any agency that serves in an oversight capacity to make sure that the American public is not getting fucked over by the federal government and political appointees. And if the Supreme Court says, yeah, go for it. I mean, that. That basically guts any real oversight of this particular administration and any fucking administration. It's really, really, really bad. I mean, at the risk of becoming a watered down, very, very poor imitation of strict scrutiny, what is happening at the Supreme Court in the course of the next six months is gonna be hugely determinative, not just for this year, but for the immediate future of our democracy.

Jon Favreau (20:57)

Yeah. I think that the ideal political scenario for the Trump White House, and this is not all necessarily things that they want, they just don't know what's good for them. But the ideal political scenario economically for the Trump White House is the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs.

Alex Wagner (21:14)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (21:15)

The ACA subsidies deal goes through.

Alex Wagner (21:17)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (21:18)

They get some kind of compromise. The tax cuts, even though they are somewhat meager for lower and middle income people, are felt in the spring. And then maybe the job market, it's sort of hums up even if it doesn't get worse. Right. Like maybe it just sort of putzes along.

Alex Wagner (21:37)

Sure.

Jon Favreau (21:37)

And then the AI boom, the AI bubble doesn't pop, doesn't crash.

Alex Wagner (21:42)

I mean that's like that. It doesn't seem that far from.

Jon Favreau (21:46)

That's right. That's what I'm saying. And then like, if people feel even a little bit better than they do now, then I would have some concern heading into the.

Alex Wagner (21:52)

Yeah, but don't forget Trump's ability to royally fuck. I mean, he's on a streak right now. And we say this in the week of Venezuela and the ICE shooting of an unarmed American citizen in her Honda where he can. He doesn't give a shit actually. I mean, he cares about not getting impeached. Right. That's his main interest in the midterms. But he's in the sort of late stage autocrat. He's running the late stage autocrat ego playbook where it's just about like big guns being cruel, owning the libs, politics be damned. So even if, if, I mean, I don't know, you'd think that we've been here before and people voted him back into office. Even if the economy is like, eh, okay, the fact that there could be National Guard troops in a city near you, the fact that American citizens are getting assassinated by ICE agents in masks, the fact that there are immigration dragnets that are fucking up just communities and labor forces, you know, all of this contribute. And the fact that we may be invading Greenland, all of this contributes to a feel of. Feel of chaos, lawlessness and insanity that. I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how American, I mean that stuff is, I think tangible in a way that talking about fascism as a sort of academic thesis as it was Perhaps in the 2024 election, I think that stuff, because it's unfolding on videos and on streets and in cities all over the country, it resonates in a way and is therefore maybe more meaningful than the discussion about Trump's autocratic tendencies was in the Biden years.

Jon Lovett (23:34)

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Jon Lovett (26:04)

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Jon Favreau (26:18)

Well, that's a good segue to my next question, which is how far will Stephen Miller take his domestic war against people who don't look like him or believe what he believes?

Alex Wagner (26:31)

Do you think I will be a resident of the United States of America by the end of the year? I mean, I certainly don't look the way he thinks Americans should look.

Jon Favreau (26:37)

Did you catch the Atlantic profile on Stephen Miller?

Alex Wagner (26:41)

I caught it on. I caught the first two paragraphs of it, John Brutal.

Jon Favreau (26:46)

Steve Bannon calls in this prime minister, which I think is the prime minister of the government, which I think is apt.

Alex Wagner (26:50)

Yep.

Jon Favreau (26:51)

There was an anecdote from 2024 debate prep, and I've heard the Trump side of this before. I hadn't heard the Miller side of this one before. I don't know if it's new or not, but Miller was going back and forth with someone who was a little more moderate on immigration with him during debate prep. And Trump was frustrated and interrupted the two men and said, stephen, if you had it your way, everyone would look exactly, someone familiar with the exchange told the Atlantic. And then Miller responded, that's correct, before turning back to continue sparring. So I do wonder, we are, you know, again, we have seen this week sort of the chaos of Miller's vision becoming realized of a mass deportation force rounding people up. And I wonder what the country looks like if they've come very close to defying the Courts, in fact, you could say they have defied the courts here and there, but outright defiance of a Supreme Court, you know, you've made your decision, John Roberts now enforce it kind of thing. We haven't seen that yet, will we? Birthright citizenship, speaking of Supreme Court decisions is out there. Trump said to the New York Times this week that he confirmed that they're taking steps to strip Americans of citizenship. Denaturalization. He said Somali of Somali descent. But he said others, if they deserve it.

Alex Wagner (28:14)

Yeah. Well, if you get it on his wrong side, fuck you. You have to get out of here now.

Jon Favreau (28:18)

Denaturalization is a. It's a difficult standard to meet legally. You have to basically have lied or committed fraud on your citizenship application process.

Alex Wagner (28:33)

Right.

Jon Favreau (28:33)

It's not just so some of the, like, Tom Emmer's like, talk to Tish.

Alex Wagner (28:36)

James about how much fraud you actually need to commit to be found in the fraudhairs of Tahiti.

Jon Favreau (28:40)

But it's like, I heard. I heard Tom Emmer over the. A couple weeks ago be like, oh, all these. All these Somali Americans who committed. Who are caught in the fraud ring, like, they should be denaturalized. Like, that's not what the law says that, like, if you are a naturalized citizen and you commit a crime.

Alex Wagner (28:53)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (28:53)

Then you can be denaturalized. That's not what it. Lied somehow. But, like, you know, they asked for. I believe Stephen Miller and DHS have asked for like 100 to 2. Like, they asked for a certain minimum number of denaturalization cases every month.

Alex Wagner (29:09)

That should send a chill down everybody's spine. And actually my question 5 was how many migrants have been, well, killed and how many American citizens deported by the end of the year? Because that's the collateral damage of all of this. The problem with the Trump administration, it's like it is the frog boiling slowly. Remember when he was just gonna get the criminals out? And now it's. Everybody's accepted that if you came here without papers, you're a criminal and therefore subject to deportation. Like, that was not the litmus test. Even. Like, I'm old enough to remember last year, I should say, like, in 2024, when that wasn't gonna be the criteria by which these dragnets were gonna operate. You were gonna have to be a violent criminal, not supposed to be here, and then they were gonna take you out. Not that I agreed with that. But all of a sudden the standard is just, if you came here and you didn't have your papers, then we're going to tear you from your family, even if you are in court to try and follow the process, we are going to find you. We may take family members who are here legally and also deport them. I mean, and so when the Trump administration or when the law says you have to have committed some crime or fraud, like everything is fungible, everything is movable. The goalposts are not stationary on any of this. And so while denaturalization may be legally complicated, it's a fool's errand to believe in the adverb legally with this administration. Right? They change the game all the time. And if they decide they wanna take naturalized citizens and rip their fucking passports and their papers away from them, then they will. And like the courts be damned. I will also say this court has been a gross enabler of the worst, most racist impulses of this court. Right. The Kavanaugh stops. You can now just stop someone on the street cuz they're brown. Like that's a cr. That's the world in which we live. And it is very difficult for me to imagine at the end of 2026, I almost forgot what year it is, that this is not a whiter country. That it is, as we sit here.

Jon Favreau (31:00)

Today in early January, a whiter country. And I worry just more state sponsored violence totally. And chaos on the streets. Because I do think there is a. And you know, this is the issue that I fear the most. This is what keeps me up at night. But there is a temptation. I felt the temptation over the last couple months before this week where it's like, okay, the Chicago, the Midway blitz wound down, the ICE raids here in Los Angeles, sort of. It went like city by city for a while. And then we saw that they lost on the National Guard in court. And they announced they were taking the National Guard out of a lot of these cities. But they're still like, you know, then they sent them to Minneapolis and now we're dealing with this in Minneapolis. And now they're gonna go to other cities. And what they want is a reaction.

Alex Wagner (31:51)

Yep, they absolutely want a reaction.

Jon Favreau (31:53)

They want to provoke reaction. You hear J.D. vance in an interview this week saying like, oh, well, we gotta. J.D. vance and Stephen Miller think they have done poorly on deportations. They think that they are getting heat. They're not listening to the people who are upset about this on the left or the center. No, they're listening to the right or the center right. They're listening to the far, far right who's like, you have not deported enough people. You have not rounded up enough People. And there are too many people who still have citizenship, who shouldn't have citizenship here. And J.D. vance is like, well, once now we get the system in place and the money's coming from the funding and the big beautiful bill for ice. Now we're gonna start going door to door. He said on fox. And I think I worry a lot about this for this year because there's no reason for the administration to stop doing it because they don't give a shit what the courts say. They don't give a shit about public opinion on it. Public opinion has turned hard against them on deportations.

Alex Wagner (32:46)

Ye. They enjoy the violence and the cruelty. Yes, Right. That's why you see when they kill an American citizen on videotape, the reaction is not even let's let the investigation play out. The reaction is let's smear her memory, let's degrade her humanity and let's suggest that her death was warranted. I mean, whoa.

Jon Favreau (33:07)

Yep.

Alex Wagner (33:08)

Right. Like that's where we're at. I will just say by the numbers, According to the DHS, in December of last year, in President Trump's first year back in office, more than 2.5 million illegal aliens, their term, not mine, have left the US including an estimated 1.9 million self deportations and 622,000 deportations. I would love to.

Jon Favreau (33:30)

Hard to trust those numbers.

Alex Wagner (33:31)

Very hard to trust those numbers. But also that's not.

Jon Favreau (33:33)

Especially in the self deportation.

Alex Wagner (33:36)

Exactly. Is that people that like went to go see family and then just couldn't get back in the country. It's hard to know what that actually means. Also, 622,000 deportations is a fuckton of deportations. How many of them were actually people who had papers to be here? But also that's not the number that.

Jon Favreau (33:51)

Yeah.

Alex Wagner (33:52)

So like that should send a chill. They are very interested in meeting their targeted numbers and they will stop at nothing to reach them. So the fact that 622,000 is even close to what they wanted should scare us all.

Jon Favreau (34:03)

And the other shoe that hasn't really dropped yet is if you remember, after Charlie Kirk's assassination, there was the like, we're gonna go after Antifa and all the left wing groups and really crack down on opposition. And it was a lot of sound and furor and not much came of it. And now this week we've seen it's kicking back up again because after they have decided to kill an unarmed American citizen. J.D. vance at the White House briefing today was like, we're gonna find the people who fund this. And I still don't know how much of it is bullshit to scare people or how much of it is suddenly subpoenas are going out and people are getting sued and dragged to court. And that. That worries me too.

Alex Wagner (34:47)

Well, yeah, and I didn't put this in as a question, but they are all doing everything in their power to, you know, consolidate the, the media landscape and the information landscape to suit their own ends. Right.

Jon Favreau (35:00)

Whether it's going on, this asks me my next question.

Alex Wagner (35:02)

Okay, you go, you go. Take it away, Doss.

Jon Lovett (35:04)

I didn't put it on.

Alex Wagner (35:05)

I didn't know how to ask.

Jon Favreau (35:06)

That's perfect. Our segues are so natural now, so we don't even have to go like, next question.

Alex Wagner (35:09)

It's like we work at the same office.

Jon Favreau (35:11)

It was like, what. What kind of impact will the Trump MAGA war on independent objective media have? And that, you know, there's a couple dimensions to that. Right. That now again, to the boiling frog thing. Like after a year they. So TikTok is back, Right. You know, the Chinese gave us TikTok and now there's some consortium. Right. So there's some Trump allies are in there. Elon's still got X. Yeah.

Alex Wagner (35:41)

And Grok.

Jon Favreau (35:42)

Right, And Grok and the AI overlords have kissed Donald Trump's ass.

Alex Wagner (35:50)

You know what happens when you kiss ass, John? You just got ass.

Jon Favreau (35:53)

Just get ass. You guys have to listen to who don't know that reference. You have to listen to Runaway Country.

Alex Wagner (35:58)

It's a deep cut.

Jon Favreau (35:58)

Yeah, it's a deep cut. So they are. He's got them on the team. He's got the Ellisons, who now have CBS and are looking to also take Warner Brothers and cnn or maybe just cnn, who knows? And right wing propaganda network that's bigger than ever. And I guess my question is, like, it's happening. How much of an impact does it have this year and that, like, when does it start? When do you start? And maybe we'll never know. But like, when do you start seeing it having an influence on public opinion?

Alex Wagner (36:35)

Yeah, I mean, I think the CBS stuff is a great test case for that. Right. Because that's the most insidious right there. You have Legacy brand, you have someone installed, Bari Weiss, who is clearly doing the handiwork of the Trump administration. And in the most, I suppose we can call it skillful, because Barry Weiss is smart, she's very articulate. She ran a very successful independent news organization. Not as successful as the money they paid her for it, but, you know, she's Not. She ain't Sean Spicer. Right. And so in that way, it's much more malignant, I think. And Tony de Coppol is not a malignant actor necessarily, but the language he's using, the stories he's covering, the favor he's currying with the administration is incredibly detrimental.

Jon Favreau (37:20)

Marco Rubio, we salute you.

Alex Wagner (37:22)

I know, I mean, right? I mean, I'm giving it. Yeah.

Jon Favreau (37:25)

This has surprised me. And, like, you can call me naive. It wasn't necessarily as naive, but I'm just like Bari Weiss. Whatever. Like cbs, first of all, is it really gonna be that blatant? What's gonna happen? The Tony Decopol stuff in this last week is like, are you fucking kidding me?

Alex Wagner (37:42)

I know, it's.

Jon Favreau (37:43)

The margarita stuff is so. I mean, it's just. I don't think that's effective, first of all. But I also think it's just, like, so embarrassing.

Alex Wagner (37:48)

It's so embarrassing. I think the great hope is that, and I say this as someone who worked at CBS and, you know, took pride in working at CBS for a while, that the evening news has become so utterly irrelevant that they can't actually change. It's more of watching a car slowly crash.

Jon Favreau (38:03)

Lack of intense concern was coming from. Not that I didn't think they would try, but I was like, who's really watching the evening news?

Alex Wagner (38:09)

Well, I just.

Jon Favreau (38:09)

Enough people.

Alex Wagner (38:10)

I don't think it's bad that it gets poisoned on the way down, though. Do you know? Like, I don't think it's bad to have news gathering organizations, you know, and the poisoning of it, the irrelevance of it, it's just all fucking bad for information, our democracy. And that part is really distressing to me, you know, destroying cbs, even if it doesn't have an immediate and practical impact on the sort of citizenry, it's just not a good thing for democracy. And to get away with it is. That's just another way of destroying the fourth estate, is to just make it so fucking unwatchable and so gross that it doesn't matter anymore. And that's a model for linear cable, which is increasingly irrelevant. Just like, map that onto cnn, right? And then destroy that shit and you're done. Like, it's what happened in Hungary. They chose to close these newsrooms, right. Which is more aggressive than what the Trump administration is doing, but by installing talentless hacks that nobody believes in in a medium that's increasingly irrelevant. Well, then you get rid of, like, institutional media in a pretty adept way.

Jon Favreau (39:16)

Yeah. I mean, there's the there's the question of, you know, the sort of right wing media conglomerate propaganda network out there versus opinion that is more left leaning analysis that's more left leaning. And we obviously think about that a lot here. But my big question is how many people are out there paying for news gathering totally. How much news gathering is going on and how much of it will be able to continue that is not tainted by fear of Trump or just opinionated to sort of match MAGA preferences? Totally. And we're sitting here in the week that I think the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

Alex Wagner (40:00)

Closing down, shuttering because two psychopaths who own it are trying to own the libs that work for the paper, basically.

Jon Favreau (40:07)

And I do wonder just from a news gathering perspective, if we're gonna be all takes and opinion and then AI slop and you know, creators who, God bless them, but like, are people getting, you know, like, I just, I worry about actual news gathering. Where does that leave us and who's gonna pay?

Alex Wagner (40:28)

It's just me interviewing some people on Runaway Country. That's not new to the guy. That's, that's just me interviewing people.

Jon Lovett (40:43)

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Alex Wagner (43:09)

All right. Kin well, I mean, speaking of the health of our democracy, I do wonder if we still have our upper representative democracy by the end of this year. I hate to go back to the Supreme Court, but I do think Louisiana versus Calais, where they're looking at Section two of the Voting Rights act, which is like probably the end of the Voting Rights act as we know it. Something that Chief Justice John Roberts has wanted to make real since he was a staffer in Ed Meese's Department of Justice under Ronald Reagan. The conservatives have hated the Voting Rights act for a long time. And now you have a bunch of white people basically suing and saying it's reverse racism to have districts that prioritize minority voices and voters and give them representation in Congress. That's where we're at. And I just think you do away with that and well, first of all, the south is gone. And one of the most important sort of reparative mechanisms for our long and checkered institutional racism disappears. And at this moment, when we no longer have affirmative action, we have an administration that says that any kind of civil rights gains are wokeism that need to be reversed, whether they happened in World War II or yesterday. It's a dangerous time. It's a dangerous time for people of color. It's a dangerous time for people who believe in a more inclusive society. And I think the Supreme Court decision could have like, profoundly traumatic after effects on American society.

Jon Favreau (44:39)

Yes. And I don't think it will go well. And I mean from oral arguments at least. And I do think the only optimistic part is that I think it's going to be tough for whatever decision they make to be implemented before these midterms. But that's cold comfort for generations to come. I also think, and we've seen that this year with redistricting, that what's going to happen then is sort of a gerrymandering race to the bottom, where if we lose another 10, 15, whatever seats in the south because of this decision, then the blue states again are gonna go back and be like, all right, well, we're gonna just wipe out all the Republicans in our district and then you're gonna just have this country that is completely split.

Alex Wagner (45:29)

Yeah, Bad. What could go wrong?

Jon Favreau (45:31)

Yeah. All right, I have. Will a challenger emerge who seriously threatens J.D. vance's chance at the Republican nomination in 2028?

Alex Wagner (45:42)

I love this question. It's so juicy. Isn' Rubio that's gonna be the challenger or is he the running mate?

Jon Favreau (45:50)

I think he's the running mate. I think he's the running mate.

Alex Wagner (45:53)

Wait, say more. Okay. Who else do you think could be that person?

Jon Favreau (45:56)

So I think one of the reasons that JD Vance is just the biggest asshole you've ever seen in public.

Alex Wagner (46:06)

He's saying something. He's saying something.

Jon Favreau (46:09)

Is I. I think his running theory is no enemies to your right. Because that's where the challenge would come from.

Alex Wagner (46:16)

Right, Got it.

Jon Favreau (46:17)

And he is not as charismatic as his boss, Donald Trump. He is not as charismatic as many of the figures on the right.

Alex Wagner (46:24)

He can't order donuts, John. He's like the least charismatic human being in America.

Jon Favreau (46:28)

But, like, he needs to, you know, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens. Right. Like all of the. And I'm not even saying they're. Who knows, maybe, but like, he needs those people to like him, to not just like him, but to like. Or at the very least not to challenge him or not to find challengers for him. And so you have a J.D. vance who is, in some ways, his political fortunes are tethered to Donald Trump, as are Marco Rubio's. And so if Trump's popular or middling, then maybe they're fine. But if Trump gets even worse, it gets even less popular, then JD Vanch's ambitions are fucked and he can't break from Donald Trump. And so. So he has to be as extreme as possible. And I think he happens to believe most of it, too. But even if he didn't, he would have to be if he wants to be president. And I think that someone on the right could say if the Trump administrator. If Donald Trump's sitting at, like, in the 30s, by the end of the year, by the end of next year, there's gonna be people on the right who are like, that's J.D. vance that is saddled with that.

Alex Wagner (47:32)

Not me.

Jon Favreau (47:32)

Not me. And he's a fucking pud who is. Can't excite a crowd. Awkward.

Alex Wagner (47:42)

He is. No, I mean, here say this about Trump. Many things can be said. He is incredibly authentic. And JD Vance does not have an authentic bone in his body. The other thing we're discounting is the sickness of Trump. He is going to enjoy the sort of Hunger Games of the inheritance, much like he does with his children. Very succession vibes. He will love playing Rubio and Vance off of each other. And I would guess if there is a challenger from the right, he will entertain that person at Mar a Lago just to make J.D. vance and Marco Rubio beg and scrape that much harder. I mean, they will be sick and twisted.

Jon Favreau (48:18)

Delicious Lovett and I did John Heileman's podcast right before. Heard of him. I was gonna say you've done a show with him or two right before the break. And he was down on Vance as a nominee, but was like, what about. He thinks like, Don Jr. What do you think about Don Jr.

Alex Wagner (48:37)

I maybe. I think it kind. It's interesting.

Jon Favreau (48:41)

I think that's tough, too.

Alex Wagner (48:42)

I think they like making money. I mean, like, I really think they like being rich. Right? I really think they like being rich. Although he seems a little drunk on power, I would not be surprised. It will be Sophie's Choice for Donald Trump. I still think he actually likes his children.

Jon Favreau (48:56)

And I think that's a. I think it's a hard. I think The Vance, Don Jr. Thing is hard to, like, tease out because I don't think Trump Jr. Goes after Vance, and I don't think Trump sort of allows that kind of thing. I really do think it. If there's a challenger to Vance, which I think is very possible. It is an outsider. It is a Tucker. It is a tc. Megan.

Alex Wagner (49:14)

No, let me tell you.

Jon Favreau (49:16)

No way.

Alex Wagner (49:17)

She likes that podcasting studio.

Jon Favreau (49:19)

They all like it. But wouldn't she like a. You know, she like.

Alex Wagner (49:22)

She likes being Charlie of Charlie's Angels. She likes being the voice in the box. I can't see that. Tc.

Jon Favreau (49:27)

Tc.

Alex Wagner (49:28)

From the barn to the barnstorm, I can see it.

Jon Favreau (49:31)

I can see that Austin just held up a picture of Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Alex Wagner (49:34)

Mtg flash in the pan. I feel like she's come back to me at the end of the year when she's a fucking nominee. I just feel like she can't get. She's done the thing. She's come out too early against Trump. I just think that that's just a very hard road to hoe. And I saw her yesterday on tv, not in real life, and I made this.

Jon Favreau (49:52)

I was just talking to her yesterday.

Alex Wagner (49:53)

I interviewed her yesterday. We were getting milk ultras at the local bar, and she just. She's already. I feel like a discomfort there. That is gonna get even more pronounced the more real her bid becomes. But you know what? I should shut the fuck up, because I also didn't think Donald Trump was necessarily gonna win in 2015.

Jon Favreau (50:11)

What do you got?

Alex Wagner (50:11)

I got one that is just a complete fucking downer, but it's real relevant. Will medication abortion still be legal by the end of the year?

Jon Favreau (50:18)

Oh, God.

Alex Wagner (50:19)

Sorry. I know we were talking mtg, but this is fucking so real. Because this is a week in which psychopath bear killer like creatine monster Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has changed the sort of vaccine recommendations for children. Getting rid of. What did he get rid of? Flu, rsv, rotavirus, hepatitis A and meningitis. Who needs to be vaccinated against those things? He. He has done everything he said he wouldn't do in his Senate confirmation, and he never said he wouldn't get rid of Mith Prestone. And under the head of the fda, Marty Makari, they pledged to conduct a full review of mifepristone's safety. This is a gimme to the hard right. Kennedy has proven himself absolutely fucking shameless when pandering to the political right and has totally politicized the FDA and HHS and the cdc. And I could absolutely see a world in which they get rid of mifepristone, which is the drug used in most medication abortions, which account for as of 2023, 63% of all abortions. We don't talk about abortion. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, not least among them because it didn't win Democrats 2024. But that doesn't mean the issue isn't insanely urgent. And it is a matter of, like, national health concern. And it is just as urgent as vaccine schedules and MRNA research and everything else he's doing to fuck with American bodies over at his cabinet agency. So I'm curious to know whether that's something that people can choose by the end of the year.

Jon Favreau (51:52)

As you started that answer, I thought, okay, I could see it happening. If I were to bet, I would bet against it only because Donald Trump has seemed skittish in going too hard right on that issue for. For purely political reasons. And a bunch of Republicans in more competitive areas feel the same way for either real reasons or political reasons. But to our. Whatever question we asked a couple before this on the gerrymandering race to the bottom as the country gets more polarized and there are. And it's like, oh, there are a bunch of Republicans in blue states that we're worried about now, probably less. Certainly less. And you start to worry that, like, wouldn't the right, who have now outlawed abortion in most red states, love to stick it to the blue states?

Alex Wagner (52:45)

You can't get pregnant and have a miscarriage in a red state. Right, right. Like, that's where we're at. So the idea that they would make it, if not very difficult to access medication, abortion seems very possible to me.

Jon Favreau (52:57)

It would be a stupid fucking thing to do in a midterm year.

Alex Wagner (53:00)

Yes, I will say, but could happen in, you know, December.

Jon Favreau (53:03)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alex Wagner (53:04)

Or in early January.

Jon Favreau (53:05)

Yeah. If I was, I bet Susie Wiles and Trump himself are like, hey, we want to win the midterms. Let's cool it, simmer down.

Alex Wagner (53:14)

Let's just make sure kids can die.

Jon Favreau (53:16)

Of polio and that we're okay with.

Alex Wagner (53:18)

Yeah, cool.

Jon Favreau (53:18)

But who knows? Who knows?

Jon Lovett (53:29)

Pod Save America is brought to you by Strawberry Me. You know that feeling when a new year starts and you tell yourself, okay, this is the year, work is going to be great, and then two weeks later, you're already burned out again. Yeah, we've been there. Are you there, Tommy?

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Jon Favreau (55:07)

Is Gavin Newsom still the frontrunner at this time next year?

Alex Wagner (55:12)

Big question.

Jon Favreau (55:13)

How was his podcast? You were just up there.

Alex Wagner (55:16)

I was just up there.

Jon Favreau (55:17)

You told me about this. How was it?

Alex Wagner (55:18)

Tour of the Governor's Mansion for people who are art, people who like street art. There is a rotating series of art exhibits in the Governor's Mansion, including a collection of Barry McGee surfboards. If you know who Barry McGee, aka Twist, is a former graffiti writer who now is part of the collection at lacma. He's amazing. And I walked in and I was like this is fucking awesome. And he was like, you know who Barry McGee is. And I like was. I was like, you know who Barry McGee is? And then I was like, you are never gonna get elected president. Like you cannot know who Barry McGee is and get elected president. That's too fucking street smart. Gavin Newsom is a delightful interviewer. I will say we had a great time.

Jon Favreau (55:54)

He's really good at it.

Alex Wagner (55:56)

He is very good. Surprisingly good because most people who are politicians are completely self involved and he I think surprisingly like deeply curious and. And he's a chatter. I think he has a lot of passion for the job. I think there's gonna be just A massive question about the California of it all. Right.

Jon Favreau (56:18)

It's the biggest one for me.

Alex Wagner (56:19)

It's the biggest one. I have long thought that you need someone that is as memeable as Donald or can drive the meme machine the way that Trump does and has the zero Fox, Yosemite Sam style arsenal. And he's that dude. He's establishing himself early as by far the most joyful warrior in the pack. I just wonder if it is off putting to the very earnest Democratic Party that looks at the stakes. And it's just like, it's hard to know. I mean, it's very hard for me to understand how he plays to a party that right now is largely oriented against Trump and has definitely not declared what it is for and how it wants to be for those things. Do you know? So I'm not answering your question.

Jon Favreau (57:02)

No, but I mean, but I mean, I've been thinking about this for a while because I, again, the more I watch Gavin Newsom, get to know Gavin Newsom, interview him, be interviewed on him, the more I like him and I really appreciate what he has been doing to fight not just in California, but nationally for the party. As we get closer to an actual Democratic primary, there's part of me that always thinks like, oh, this is a California governor. This California, so California. And it's not about him necessarily. It's just about.

Alex Wagner (57:35)

Although I did think, like, should I suggest he wear his hair differently? Like, if he wants a better shot, that's something.

Jon Favreau (57:40)

That is something.

Alex Wagner (57:41)

Cut it shorter.

Jon Favreau (57:42)

But like, did you read. Did you read the Atlantic profile on.

Alex Wagner (57:45)

I started to, but I was literally going to meet the man, and I just had, like, a heavy dose of Gavin Newsom that day. And I. Much respect, Governor. I just was a lot of you.

Jon Favreau (57:52)

It's just there's a couple things. They talked about the California of it all, and they were like, you know, Another reason for hesitation might be that California has other laws that must have the makers of Republican attack ads salivating with anticipation. In 2020, the state passed SB132, allowing male criminals to self identify in women's prisons into women's prisons. One of those transferred, Tremaine Carroll, is awaiting trial on charges of raping two female inmates. It's like, okay, there you go again. This is just like, this is Kamala Harris. I know. And again, when I first heard that story, I was like, well, that seems. And you, like, look it up. And you're like, okay, well, there's a law and you get it and you're like, okay, well, if you're going to provide everyone medical and then you're going to say that transition care is medical, you know, like one thing leads to another and it makes sense in context. But then when you see it, you're like, oh, okay, that's gonna be a challenge.

Alex Wagner (58:45)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (58:46)

And he's just very, like, he's very California.

Alex Wagner (58:50)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (58:50)

Like he fits the bill of a Cal. You know, it was like they talked about his wedding to his current wife and it was like, you know, the ceremony was conducted by Carol Simone, a modern day mystic whose website describes her as a medium and astrologer.

Jon Lovett (59:03)

Just.

Jon Favreau (59:04)

It was just the most.

Alex Wagner (59:05)

Pause.

Jon Favreau (59:06)

He's the most California shit ever.

Alex Wagner (59:07)

Right. And like, we elected a serial philanderer. And like, he has been married a trillion times and had affairs with porn stars, and yet we're like, don't you dare get married.

Jon Favreau (59:17)

Donald Trump is a. Is a good code switcher in that. Like, he is, you know, Manhattan. He's not Manhattan. He's out of borough and he's rich, but he's sort of like, he's got a chip on his shoulder about being rich. So he's sort of, you know, so there's, there's. He's got that. Barack Obama had his feet in 10 different worlds. Like Bill Clinton, Oxford, Arkansas. Right. Like Joe Biden. Right. Like the people who succeed in politics nationally can identify with the other part of the country, if not by resume and identity, then by just some experience in their life, some feel. And maybe he has that. Maybe he can do that.

Alex Wagner (60:01)

We haven't seen, I mean, we haven't seen this sort of talking tour yet. He is gonna have a memoir come out in February. He will be on tour for that and it will be an interesting case study in his, what is it, Press the flesh skills.

Jon Favreau (60:14)

Yeah, but who else, who else do you think for the.

Alex Wagner (60:17)

Listen, I had a conversation with Big Dem over the break and she was saying JB Pritzker is who she liked.

Jon Favreau (60:25)

Okay. Okay.

Alex Wagner (60:27)

She thought he had been taking regular doses of Mounjaro in preparation for that. Her words, not mine.

Jon Favreau (60:33)

Okay.

Alex Wagner (60:33)

I think they're gonna see some governors. Josh Pirro's gonna be up in the mix. Maybe. Gretchen Whitmer raises her hand. I think Wes Moore is absolutely gonna be on people's dance cards. I mean, it's a. I think it's gonna.

Jon Favreau (60:44)

I think Gallego is out there.

Alex Wagner (60:46)

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I mean, I think it's gonna be a pretty big field. Hopefully not like so big as to be unwieldy. But listen.

Jon Favreau (60:56)

No gonna one's. No one's popping out for me ahead of the pack right now.

Alex Wagner (61:00)

Well, I mean, that's why it's just Gavin Newsom in his tote bags with Kid Rock and the laying of the hands. I think that that is the greatest meme I've ever fucking seen.

Jon Favreau (61:07)

It's really funny.

Alex Wagner (61:08)

If you're listening to us, Gavin Newsom's social media team, please make that into a tote bag. People will buy it. All right, I got my. Is this my sixth?

Jon Favreau (61:16)

Yeah, I have my sixth. I don't even know which number I was on.

Alex Wagner (61:19)

This is my six. Well, this is my sixth. But I can continue to ask questions. What will the White House actually look like? Okay, so here's the news. Here's the news, John. Today actually, this is news of the week, but there's always news about the White House. The ballroom is going to be now as tall as the main mansion itself.

Jon Favreau (61:37)

Oh, yes. Which means we also have to add on to the West Wing.

Alex Wagner (61:42)

Did you say that? Well, exactly. So they're considering a one story addition to the West Wing's colonnade in an effort to create symmetry with the two story colonnade that would lead from the White House to the ballroom. And then there's gonna be maybe an suite for the first lady, which would be nice since they destroyed any office she once had. And a reconstructed White House movie theater. Well, thank God they can screen more Sly Stallone films, I guess, in full 4k HD or whatever the fuck it is. Point is, he is completely rebuilding the White House.

Jon Favreau (62:12)

Yeah.

Alex Wagner (62:13)

It is not going to resemble itself by whatever whenever construction is complete. It's shocking.

Jon Favreau (62:20)

It's gonna look like another Trump Tower. God, and I would not be surprised if he just puts the fucking name Trump in gold. I made this joke to Dan on Thursdays. Keep Fridays recycle.

Alex Wagner (62:32)

It. It's okay.

Jon Favreau (62:32)

Yeah, it's the. We did this for the 2011 correspondence dinner. We had a big slide up, big picture of. Oh, God, if Donald Trump did run for president, this is what the White House would look like. And it's. We should put it up on the screen.

Alex Wagner (62:46)

You were Cassandra.

Jon Favreau (62:47)

It looked very close.

Alex Wagner (62:50)

You're in the predictions business.

Jon Favreau (62:51)

Yeah, right. To what? It's what it's where.

Alex Wagner (62:53)

Well, he's gotta remember who lives there, right? Isn't that what they're saying is the reason that everything's labeled right now in the White House? With this hideous gold lettering that really looks like the kind of lettering you'd See, on a restroom door is because he's so addled and so forgetful and his brain isn't working right. That he needs reminders about, like, this is the Oval Office, this is the Situation Room, and this is the White House where Trump lives. This is where you live.

Jon Favreau (63:16)

So.

Alex Wagner (63:17)

But the, you know, I mean, it's no surprise that architects keep resigning from this project. It's so fucking controversial and without being like the worst downer in America. It's also symbolic of the work it's going to take to rebuild our fucking country after this person is out of office. Right. Like, he is fundamentally changing institutions. He's re. He's rebuilding our democracy. I don't want to say rebuilding because he's destroying the democracy, but he's rebuilding America society in a very.

Jon Favreau (63:43)

In his image.

Alex Wagner (63:44)

In his image. And it's gonna take time. Just like undoing his hideous renovation of the White House is gonna take. I don't know. How long is that gonna take? Who's gonna do that? And who's gonna do it with what money? You know, it's a metaphor for everything else he's doing. So I'm curious to see what it looks like in December.

Jon Favreau (64:00)

Well, it made me think too, sort of. My last was like a smaller question, but I started the episode by mentioning that it's like the 250th birthday for America. And I do wonder how much the birthday, the anniversary is going to matter in 2026, because they are going to go all out for that. And I think that in an election year and in a year where people are starting to think about 2028, there is. And this happens in America when there are centennials, bicentennials, like, there is going to be a debate over the meaning of America, the meaning of what it is to celebrate America's 250th anniversary. Donald Trump is gonna be in control of that, unfortunately. He's got the White House thing. They're gonna do fireworks, military parade. This is gonna be a big thing.

Alex Wagner (64:46)

Jingoism run amok.

Jon Favreau (64:47)

It's gonna be a big thing in the summer. And they're gonna wanna bait. You know, they're gonna, you know, America hating libs. And they talked down. And so we're gonna have to have a good response to that about the America that we love.

Alex Wagner (64:59)

Well, and also, nobody owns the flag. Nobody owns the flag.

Jon Favreau (65:02)

Yeah, nobody owned the White House either, but.

Alex Wagner (65:04)

Well, I know, but we'll see how that went. You know, I don't know. I wonder if there's A drug that will induce a Rip Van Winkle like state for all of us so we can just fucking wake up at the end of the year instead of living through all of it. Like, if this is the first week, stop this train. I want to get off.

Jon Favreau (65:18)

I look forward to our end of the year Pod Save America episode where you're going to have to come for that and we can talk about you and I doing these things.

Alex Wagner (65:26)

We need to run it back and MTG will be running the official nominee.

Jon Favreau (65:31)

We're going to have so many clips to play. If we miss any good questions also, and you're listening, let us know, please.

Alex Wagner (65:36)

I mean, we can.

Jon Lovett (65:37)

If we.

Alex Wagner (65:38)

We definitely, definitely miss it.

Jon Favreau (65:39)

There was one that I wanted to. Not to freak everyone out, but I mean, maybe it won't. You'll know. You'll know that the Republicans are legitimately worried about losing the Senate.

Alex Wagner (65:50)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (65:51)

Not just the House.

Alex Wagner (65:51)

Yeah.

Jon Favreau (65:52)

If. If we start getting retirement from announcement from our friends Sam Alito and. Or Clarence Thomas.

Alex Wagner (66:01)

Oh, fuck. They are definitely gonna do that. They are definitely going to. Let me just say they are going to. At the end of this term, there will be two vacancies in the Supreme Court. No question. I think that's almost.

Jon Favreau (66:11)

Well, if they lose the. So but it's interesting because if they lose the Senate.

Alex Wagner (66:14)

Well, but they can. No, but if they, if they announce their retirements in June, they can get confirmation started in September. And you know, but it's.

Jon Favreau (66:19)

It is a. It's a gauge a little bit of how confident they are they'll keep the Senate.

Alex Wagner (66:23)

I think they're.

Jon Favreau (66:23)

I think because they could do it in the lame duck even if they lose the Senate. But that's also. Imagine CM Alito or Andor Thomas announcing their tournament in like November and then they suddenly get. I guess they could.

Alex Wagner (66:35)

Yeah, I think they're gonna do it at the end of the term. The problem is like, will the conservative zygote that is going to replace them be fully hatched by them? Because they're gonna nominate someone in utero.

Jon Favreau (66:45)

It's just gonna be like an AI Chatbot. Like a right wing AI Chatbot that's been like trained on fucking Alex Jones.

Alex Wagner (66:52)

Live forever. It. Live forever.

Jon Favreau (66:54)

Anyway, on that note.

Alex Wagner (66:55)

Happy 2026, Alex.

Jon Favreau (66:58)

This was fun.

Alex Wagner (66:59)

Was it?

Jon Favreau (67:00)

Thanks.

Alex Wagner (67:00)

Thanks.

Jon Favreau (67:01)

I had a good time.

Alex Wagner (67:01)

I did, I did, I did. Thank you for having me, buddy.

Jon Favreau (67:04)

Thanks. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll be back in your feed with a new episode of Pod Save America on Tuesday. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free and get access to exclusive podcasts. Go to cricket.com friends to subscribe on Supercast subscribers, YouTube or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our producers are David Toledo, Emma Ilick Frank and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our Executive editor. Adrienne Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kantor is our satisfaction engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt de Groat is our Head of production. Naomi Sengel is our Executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Kirill Pelaviev, David Toles and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America EAS. As a contractor, I don't pay for materials I don't use, so why would I pay for stuff I don't need in my mobile plan? That's why my biz plan from Verizon Business is so perfect. Now I can choose exactly what I want and I only pay for what I need right now with my biz plan. Get our best price as low as 25 a line. Visit verizon.combusiness to get started today. New lines only. Price per month with five plus lines includes auto pay and paper free billing and promotional discounts, taxes, fees, economic adjustment charge applicable. Add ons prices and terms apply. Guarantee applies to base monthly rate and stated discounts only. Add on prices. Additional offers in March 31, 2026.

Alex Wagner (68:42)

What brings you to Walgreens today Mr. Evans?

Jon Favreau (68:45)

Well, I'm hosting a little spades game tonight and you know when I get it going I put my whole arm into slapping that car down on the table. So I need something for my joints. Gotta keep this arm loose.

Jon Lovett (68:55)

Okay?

Alex Wagner (68:56)

Gotta watch out for you. Joint support, aisle 5.

Jon Favreau (68:58)

Make the most of your Medicare Advantage OTC benefits. Just ask your Walgreens Walgreens pharmacist about eligible items like joint support. You gotta wind it up and you hit it like ah, a fuller life deserves fuller care. Walgreens.